how would you re-edit "Topographic"?

[total mass retain]

As we know, Rick has now recanted his drubbing of Topographic, stating that if CDs were available at that time, they would have done away with the "padding" and released a stronger 50 minute album. Now as fans, this act of butchery might seem barbaric, but imagine if you were Jon or Steve in 1973, CDs have just arrived (10 years early!!) and Atlantic want you to trim 30 minutes from your magnum opus to make it more commercial. Where would you start?
Personally I couldn't do it. Ritual is untouchable, but I suppose the first 2 thirds of The Ancient might be halved. Some of Rick's dreamier interludes in Remembering would have to go, and Revealing could be tightened into a more streamlined piece, but I just couldn't cut 30 minutes. So if you were given such an odious task, where would you make the cuts, and why?

[gathernear]

NOT AT ALL

[luckeydoug1]

The 2 DVD set works quite nicely, thank you! I couldn't, nor woudn't mess with even one note.

[oliasdoug]

This is all theoretical, of course--no masterpiece should be F'd with--but if I had a metaphorical gun pointed at me, I would do away with THE ANCIENT entirely (please, no hate-mail, Ancient fans)....and that's really about as far as I can go with that. Revealing Science, The Remembering, & Ritual are just such works of art--to edit them down is unthinkable.

[nitrus]

I could edit The Remembering and The Ancient down, remove some repetitive passages in the former and shorten the first, "wild" part of the latter by even a half maybe, but, dear God, no way could I trim it down to 50 minutes...!!! But it would fit a single disc, yeah.

Anyway, Tales will do best untouched! :)

[Ian Burdon]

I wouldn't touch it. I think that the CD issue improves it - partly because of the extended beginning, but more particularly because not having to get up and flip/change the vinyl every 23 minutes or so means that you can let the whole thing flow over you.

Except when switching to the 2nd cd of course....

[illusion]

I haven't head that extended intro! I'm making do with the remastered CD before the one where they put crazy bonus tracks on them all.

Does it add a lot to the piece?

[Apollo 77]

Well, Tales wasn't as 'instant' as, say, CTTE or Relayer, but the most I could think of trimming would be 10 minutes or so. It's still gonna clock in at 70 mins+. I'd leave well alone. Tales became something of a slow burner for me and I still really enjoy it now.

[Ian Burdon]

I haven't head that extended intro! I'm making do with the remastered CD before the one where they put crazy bonus tracks on them all.

Does it add a lot to the piece?



Yes. The original vinyl release kicked straight into "Dawn of light lying between the silence and sold sources..." but the extension - very short, fades in through an ambient soundscape before the singing starts. It works better for me

Ian

[illusion]

I'm just not sure its worth shelling out a load of cash on a double CD just for a short intro! Theres so much other music I want to hear. Maybe if I see it cheap or second hand.

[Vic Anderson]

in my yes fanaticism
i kinda already did
i liked the feeling of leaves of green flowing into
neus sommed du soleil from ritual and then flowing into soon
those 3 songs in order are so cool to listen to

[Altres]

Tales From Topographic Oceans is even more an amazing album now than it was then. Listening to it I am transported to a seamless and timeless zone where everything seems to have purpose, direction and reason. Is it an extended dream, or a shortened lifetime?

Tales from Topographic Oceans: anything else is swimming in the shallow end.

Brian

[Vic Anderson]

i rememebr when i was high the ancient came alive
i think they were high when they did that music

[kmcpro615]

Before or after calling in Jimmy Haun to redo Steve's guitar parts ?????

;)

KMCc:)

www.myspace.com/kurtmichaels1

[Timmo]

Yes. The original vinyl release kicked straight into "Dawn of light lying between the silence and sold sources..." but the extension - very short, fades in through an ambient soundscape before the singing starts. It works better for me

IanI prefer the original. It springs to life from silence.

[Imperatrix]

I'd just hit "Delete", wholesale. :D

[Timmo]

Ydtm!

[Imperatrix]

Ydtm!

:lmao: :appl[1]: :appl[1]: :appl[1]: :appl[1]:

I guess I'm just "Tales'd" out....

[Andrea YouAndI]

I guess I'm just "Tales'd" out....

I'm almost there too, Tas. It's never been in my top 5 Yes albums, because of the first two movements. With that in mind, I could cut Tales down to just over 40 minutes - leaving The Ancient and Ritual intact, with nothing else.

:rain:

[highaltitude]

adding to the recent extended version a live TFTO version in one more cd, with lots of improvisation, specially rick's improvising would be fantastic to get the true Tales strenght..!!!

[Steve Mahoney]

Would not touch it.
Not really sure why anyone would want to.

Steve

[True Believer]

Ydtm!
And me.

[elliott]

I would make it longer.

[Yesed]

I tried trimming them and it doesnt work. The funny thing about all the talk about padding the pieces when they were first recorded is that in doing so they created masterpieces that you cannot take away from in any way.
Certain sections can be mixed with other yessongs, but to shorten anything from Tales is to not get the music.

[Imperatrix]

And me.

:lmao: Yes, yes, I know.

But, IMHO, Wurm has more power, beauty, philosophy, and majesty in its simplicity than Tales has in its busyness.

[Andrea YouAndI]

But, IMHO, Wurm has more power, beauty, philosophy, and majesty in its simplicity than Tales has in its busyness.

Tas, you really ARE a long lost sister of mine.

:hearts:

[Imperatrix]

Tas, you really ARE a long lost sister of mine.

:hearts:

:lmao: :hearts: :beerchugr:

[Timmo]

:lmao: Yes, yes, I know.

But, IMHO, Wurm has more power, beauty, philosophy, and majesty in its simplicity than Tales has in its busyness.Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

The end of The Remembering is magnificent.

The dischordant beginning of The Ancient is inspired.

The "far side" of Ritual, after the weird battle, is sublime.

Wurm is inspired as well, in a totally different way. That repeated guitar lick, slowly building as sound is layered on, climaxing in an orgasmic, shuddering finale.

I like it all.

[podo]

Ritual is untouchable, but I suppose the first 2 thirds of The Ancient might be halved. Some of Rick's dreamier interludes in Remembering would have to go, and Revealing could be tightened into a more streamlined piece, but I just couldn't cut 30 minutes.

Pretty much what you said, except that I could easily do it..I made my own version of Tales by editing out what you said above, and it fits onto one CD. Im no expert, so the editing is pretty rough.

Tales has some wonderful peices, but it also has some real crap.

Actually, thats an idea. Would it have been better as individual songs, without all the padding that tries to tie it all together ?

[Imperatrix]

Wurm is inspired as well, in a totally different way. That repeated guitar lick, slowly building as sound is layered on, climaxing in an orgasmic, shuddering finale.

How....gauche.

:lol:

[gathernear]

:lmao: :appl[1]: :appl[1]: :appl[1]: :appl[1]:

I guess I'm just "Tales'd" out....

I think I could delete about anything else but Tales.

[JL]

I'd leave it intact.

I am surprised and saddened that so many YesFans would edit The Ancient.

[foreveryesfan57]

you don t touch a note of this masterpiece:appl[1]:

[BrianD]

I don't think that the proposition is at all heretical.

Lets be blunt here - the current length of each song had a lot to do with what fitted on an LP side in the early 70s.

I reckon The Remembering should have at least 5 minutes shaved in the first half starting from 'Softer messages'

The Ancient could lose around 5-10 minutes

Revealing & Ritual are harder to cut but I'msure some of the repetition could go to save another 5 minutes between them

That gets it down to around 60 minutes - the best I could do

[RobAdams]

Leave it alone...It's great as it is. I just wish I had an 85 minute CD to fit it on without speeding it up or editing it.

[Andrea YouAndI]

I am surprised and saddened that so many YesFans would edit The Ancient.

Me too - I love the whole track, even the beginning that everybody disdains. And it contains some of Steve's best ever acoustic work.

The one I can't get into AT ALL is The Remembering, which is why I'd axe it first. Contrary to its title, I find it very hard to recall to memory no matter how many times I've listened. It just drags to me.

[rmig68]

Tales From Topographic Oceans is even more an amazing album now than it was then. Listening to it I am transported to a seamless and timeless zone where everything seems to have purpose, direction and reason. Is it an extended dream, or a shortened lifetime?

Tales from Topographic Oceans: anything else is swimming in the shallow end.

Brian

I just played "The Revealing Science of God" again for the first time in quite a while. Not only is that song timeless, but it's not particularly stuck in the 70's at all. Other than the length, there isn't anything particularly strange or pretentious about it.

It's very well written, and although the original detractors and critics of it have probably long since "gone away" and are old farts now, it seems quite "new" to me and Yes is still touring.

[DREAMER]

I love it all except the percussive section in Ritual which goes on a bit too long for my tastes..

[rmig68]

Me too - I love the whole track, even the beginning that everybody disdains. And it contains some of Steve's best ever acoustic work.

The one I can't get into AT ALL is The Remembering, which is why I'd axe it first. Contrary to its title, I find it very hard to recall to memory no matter how many times I've listened. It just drags to me.

To me, the strength of each is intertwined with the others. While all can stand on thier own, they grow exponentially when taken as a whole.

The Remembering's quiet dreamy and introspective theme nicely preceeds The Ancients outward nod to prior civilizations contrasting both musically and thematically with the prior.

The Revealing Science of God invites us into this four part world with a macro view of existance and of experience.

Ritual sharpens our view of ourselves and of routines we go through in life. Kind of an "armed with the earlier info, how to fit it all into our lives."

[packattack4]

I would have added a third album to this masterpiece, just let the guys play and play and play, the same songs just a litlle longer, or 4 albums one for each song

[ksdb]

I like a challenge, so as test project, I edited down Revealing Science of God from 20:23 to 9:23. There's an old show biz adage, "Leave 'em wanting more," so in this project you get just enough to whet your appetite, but hopefully still get the essence of the piece. In the old days, albums were closer to 40 minutes than 50, so the idea would be to have two songs about 10 minutes long on each side.

This project is what I would call a 'cut-to-the-chase mix' because I edited out some of the vocal passages as well as instrumental, although I left in a little bit of both Howe and Wakeman's solo bits and pieces. Otherwise, tried to make the edits musically transparent (on the beat), although the transitions will be obvious and probably very jarring to those who know this song well. Would try to edit the other songs, if this one isn't too annoying.

ksdb's edited version of Revealing Science of God (http://www.americandebtsales.com/music/ksdb.yes_rsog-dod.edited.mp3)

[YESOLA]

I couldn't do it at this point. If I went by my thoughts about it when I initially heard it I would of cut some of what I thought was filler on sides two and three, but now, I wouldn't touch a thing.

[Parish]

Nice job but ( IMO ) you picked on the one song that didnt need to be edited at all.

If yer looking for somthing to do sides Two and Three has a bunch of noodling just asking to be strained...

[Faceintheplace]

All I'd do is slightly edit the repedative parts of the Remembering to get all of Tales on to one 78 to 79 minute cd, other than that I'd leave Tales as it is. I've never had any problems at all with The Ancient, I love how it goes from chaos and complexity so beauty and simplicity. However if I were an Atlantic rep back in '73 - '74 I would have put out a single edit of Leaves of Green to capitolize on the UK folk boom of the time and give radio stations something short to play to represent Tales. For the b-side I would have four or five minutes of excerpts from Revealing or Ritual.

[RobAdams]

I might just edit this down to a real short track....

Dawn of a light getting over over hanging trees
Along without you
We love when we play

That solves the problem...TFTO edited down to about 2:00 or less. Enjoy!!

[SouthSideGuy]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/32/97937348_bad6967538.jpg

[Melissa]

I wouldn't touch a thing!

[illusion]

I might just edit this down to a real short track....

Dawn of a light getting over over hanging trees
Along without you
We love when we play

That solves the problem...TFTO edited down to about 2:00 or less. Enjoy!!

I think that would have made a rather good single!