View Full Version : struggle between love and evil
I am new to Yes as a band, I like them very much but there is a lot more to find out about them. What is this "struggle" between bass guitar and drum all about?
Sheerah
05-11-2008, 12:51 PM
Hi Sam, I've been enjoying your posts.
If there is any kind of struggle going on between bass and drums, then I am blissfully unaware of it.
Mind Driver
05-11-2008, 01:02 PM
I would say that out of all the band members, Chris and Allan seem to get along the best.
Hi Sam, I've been enjoying your posts.
If there is any kind of struggle going on between bass and drums, then I am blissfully unaware of it.
I just read a British rock magazine's review of Yes' "Tales From Topographic Oceans" and it said that in Yes' concerts there would sometimes be some kind of a musical struggle between bass guitar and drums (one of them representing love the other evil) and wondered what it was all about (please don't tell me that I've imagined all this and that I've got to start taking those pills again...)
Mind Driver
05-11-2008, 01:31 PM
I just read a British rock magazine's review of Yes' "Tales From Topographic Oceans" and it said that in Yes' concerts there would sometimes be some kind of a musical struggle between bass guitar and drums (one of them representing love the other evil) and wondered what it was all about (please don't tell me that I've imagined all this and that I've got to start taking those pills again...)
No need for the pills......I misinterpreted your post.
That is a good interpretation of some of the music on Tales. Tales and Relayer were two albums that take some getting used to when listening to them. They are musically challenging, and even caused Rick Wakeman to leave the band because, in his words, he had nothing to contribute to that music. Listen to them a few times and you will understand.
No need for the pills......I misinterpreted your post.
That is a good interpretation of some of the music on Tales. Tales and Relayer were two albums that take some getting used to when listening to them. They are musically challenging, and even caused Rick Wakeman to leave the band because, in his words, he had nothing to contribute to that music. Listen to them a few times and you will understand. Thank you for that. If there really was some kind of musical performance "struggle" between the "forces of love and evil" as represented by drum and bass guitar, I must admit it makes me smile as it so Spinal Tap-ish and just a little bit pretentious. No matter though, I still love this band's music.
No need for the pills......I misinterpreted your post.
That is a good interpretation of some of the music on Tales. Tales and Relayer were two albums that take some getting used to when listening to them. They are musically challenging, and even caused Rick Wakeman to leave the band because, in his words, he had nothing to contribute to that music. Listen to them a few times and you will understand. Thank you for that. If there really was some kind of musical performance "struggle" between the "forces of love and evil" as represented by drum and bass guitar, I must admit it makes me smile as it so Spinal Tap-ish and just a little bit pretentious. No matter though, I still love this band's music.
Thank you for that. If there was some kind of musical performance of the "struggle" between love and evil, I must admit it makes me smile as it very Spinal Tap-ish and just a little bit pretentious. No matter though, I still think Yes are great.
True Believer
05-11-2008, 05:15 PM
Hi sam and welcome!
thistle15
05-11-2008, 05:42 PM
First off - welcome!
The liner notes to Tales from Topogrpaphic Oceans (written by Jon) briefly mention the bass/drums duel b/t Chris and Alan on Ritual as symbolic of the struggle b/t good and evil..
happy listening!
Mind Driver
05-11-2008, 05:51 PM
If you want Spinal Tap, go buy Drama.
If you want Spinal Tap, go buy Drama.
Why what is Drama like? If I understand correctly (and I could be wrong), it's the one they recorded without Jon Anderson where the guys from Buggles briefly joined. I don't know, there's still so much music to listen to by this band. I dare say for every Heart of the Sunrise, there's a song that's not so good. All I know is that I'm very taken by them so far. What a wonderful voice Jon Anderson has. My only gripe with Yes' music (if it can be called a gripe) is that Mr Anderson's voice is so good that you can't sing along with him like you can lesser singers. I've tried- I just can't do it. I end up croaking like a frog.
illusion
05-12-2008, 01:20 PM
Why what is Drama like? If I understand correctly (and I could be wrong), it's the one they recorded without Jon Anderson where the guys from Buggles briefly joined. I don't know, there's still so much music to listen to by this band. I dare say for every Heart of the Sunrise, there's a song that's not so good. All I know is that I'm very taken by them so far. What a wonderful voice Jon Anderson has. My only gripe with Yes' music (if it can be called a gripe) is that Mr Anderson's voice is so good that you can't sing along with him like you can lesser singers. I've tried- I just can't do it. I end up croaking like a frog.
I'd leave getting Drama until later on. Personally its one of my favourites, but get the best stuff with Jon first.
What do you have so far?
rmig68
05-13-2008, 08:14 AM
I just read a British rock magazine's review of Yes' "Tales From Topographic Oceans" and it said that in Yes' concerts there would sometimes be some kind of a musical struggle between bass guitar and drums (one of them representing love the other evil) and wondered what it was all about (please don't tell me that I've imagined all this and that I've got to start taking those pills again...)
That is probably referencing the counterpoint dynamics and playing of the two instruments, not the individuals.
For instance, in Gates of Delirium, there are certainly moments leading up to and during the battle sequence where the interplay between the two could certainly be deemed as a struggle.
This critics use of the term "struggle," is a positive assessment of the complexities and effectiveness of certain classic Yes pieces in delivering often opposite moods and ideas for the good of the entire piece.
...now about those pills. The double barralled, purple microdots work best for understanding this "struggle."
Jonah
05-13-2008, 08:34 AM
Why what is Drama like? If I understand correctly (and I could be wrong), it's the one they recorded without Jon Anderson where the guys from Buggles briefly joined. I don't know, there's still so much music to listen to by this band. I dare say for every Heart of the Sunrise, there's a song that's not so good. All I know is that I'm very taken by them so far. What a wonderful voice Jon Anderson has. My only gripe with Yes' music (if it can be called a gripe) is that Mr Anderson's voice is so good that you can't sing along with him like you can lesser singers. I've tried- I just can't do it. I end up croaking like a frog.
I think it's fair to say Sam, that even the worst of Yes is very often as good as the best of many bands. They don't miss the spot many times, even though the style has changed significantly over the years. In every 'epic' there is still, at the heart of it, a song. For every song, there is the possibility of an epic. That's the wonder of Yes. I find earlier Jon Anderson easier to sing along to. Some of the later stuff is impossible without surgery.
I, like Sheila, am enjoying your posts. It is always great to see someone discovering the Yes sound world for the first time. An old guy once said to me 'I envy young people because they have the whole of Dickens still to read'. I think it's a bit like that with people new to Yes, and I hope that continue on your musical jouney.
I'd leave getting Drama until later on. Personally its one of my favourites, but get the best stuff with Jon first.
What do you have so far?
I received a 35th anniversary compilation CD of Yes along with a copy of Tales... for my birthday. Unfortunately, the Tales... CD was dodgy so had to be returned. Out of the refunded HMV points, I tried to get "Yessongs" but it wasn't in stock so I ended up with "Fragile" and "Close to the Edge". From now on, I'm trying to get one Yes album a month (it seems too hedonistic to me to get more than this), so that I can listen to it, absorb it and move on to the next one. I'll be in my late 30s by the time I've got the lot but what the heck.
Mostly Harmless
05-13-2008, 12:23 PM
I received a 35th anniversary compilation CD of Yes along with a copy of Tales... for my birthday. Unfortunately, the Tales... CD was dodgy so had to be returned. Out of the refunded HMV points, I tried to get "Yessongs" but it wasn't in stock so I ended up with "Fragile" and "Close to the Edge". From now on, I'm trying to get one Yes album a month (it seems too hedonistic to me to get more than this), so that I can listen to it, absorb it and move on to the next one. I'll be in my late 30s by the time I've got the lot but what the heck.
Fragile and Close to the Edge are two of the best. I hope you enjoy them.
In case I haven't said it....Welcome to the site!
YESOLA
05-13-2008, 12:29 PM
If you want Spinal Tap, go buy Drama.
I'd have to disagree with that. I'd call Tormato that.
Actually I was going to say, if Sam likes Squire, Drama is a good album to get. When I first got into Yes ( was 18 straight out of Classic Rockdum) I loved the biggees ( TYA, Fragile, CTTE) and then the first two albums were interesting to my ear, but Drama I loved.
I liked Tales less, and Tormato sounded like drek upon first listen. But it's all individual. I love it all now.
rmig68
05-13-2008, 01:54 PM
If you want Spinal Tap, go buy Drama.
Alan claims that the part that Yes can claim as an inspiration for Spinal Tap, was an actual incident where he was trapped in his drum pod during, I think, the Relayer Tour.
Obviously, the dancing elves and Stonehenge part could have come off of either the Tales or Relayer Tours (and albums for that matter), with the mandolins and Celtic leanings.
Drama I see as the antithesis to Spinal Tap actually. The lead singer and keyboardist bringing their techno sound and very progressive production (and horn-rimmed glasses) into a classic arena rock band setting.
rmig68
05-13-2008, 02:05 PM
Fragile and Close to the Edge are two of the best. I hope you enjoy them.
In case I haven't said it....Welcome to the site!
I agree entirely.
Those are the two that probably represent the golden age of Yes the best.
The Yes Album is also very good to begin with, although I admit to being almost unable to listen to Your Move/All Good People ever again because I've heard it probably 10,000 times, although I have never gotten sick of Starship Trooper or Perpetual Change.
Then, it's just great to go into the different syles and adventurous stuff, from the surprisingly hip (and solid) 90125, to the experimental, boundary-less Tales From Topographic Oceans, and everything in between.
yessound_chaser81
05-13-2008, 05:49 PM
Welcome to Yesfans!
Personally I think you should try to go in chronological order (as much as possible anyway) so you can really hear the band change and evolve over time.
illusion
05-13-2008, 06:17 PM
I received a 35th anniversary compilation CD of Yes along with a copy of Tales... for my birthday. Unfortunately, the Tales... CD was dodgy so had to be returned. Out of the refunded HMV points, I tried to get "Yessongs" but it wasn't in stock so I ended up with "Fragile" and "Close to the Edge". From now on, I'm trying to get one Yes album a month (it seems too hedonistic to me to get more than this), so that I can listen to it, absorb it and move on to the next one. I'll be in my late 30s by the time I've got the lot but what the heck.
Going for Fragile and Close to the Edge is a pretty good move.
I think you should check out Going For The One next. Despite it having a picture of an arse of the cover, its a fantastic album. Theres less keyboards and more piano (and church organ on Parallels) so it sounds a little different to the 1971-1974 sound. To me it has more emotion than any other Yes album.
I'd love to be discovering Yes for the first time.
You do realise what you are getting yourself in for, right? Once you start listening to Yes a lot of other music sounds boring!
Alan claims that the part that Yes can claim as an inspiration for Spinal Tap, was an actual incident where he was trapped in his drum pod during, I think, the Relayer Tour.
Obviously, the dancing elves and Stonehenge part could have come off of either the Tales or Relayer Tours (and albums for that matter), with the mandolins and Celtic leanings.
Drama I see as the antithesis to Spinal Tap actually. The lead singer and keyboardist bringing their techno sound and very progressive production (and horn-rimmed glasses) into a classic arena rock band setting. OK, I've got to ask- what the hell's a "drum pod"?
Ah man, there are many influences. Black Oak Arkansas used to smash their guitars together. And I saw Zep when Page played the guitar bow. I thought that was funny even before Tap paradied it. But definately the pod may have been YES inspired.
Roan's Lady
05-17-2008, 07:51 AM
OK, I've got to ask- what the hell's a "drum pod"?
It's like a pea pod, but ten thousand times bigger. And drums go in it. I guess some percussion, too. Oh, and the drummer/percussionist. :thinking: Pretty neat idea.
Hed G.
05-17-2008, 09:54 AM
It's like a pea pod, but ten thousand times bigger. And drums go in it. I guess some percussion, too. Oh, and the drummer/percussionist. :thinking: Pretty neat idea.
pretty accurate description!
http://www.forgottenyesterdays.com/graphics/2_135_3.jpg
thistle15
05-17-2008, 09:56 AM
aahhh.......the voyage of discovery with Yes..............enjoy every note and every sensation.........
it's a beautiful thing
pretty accurate description!
http://www.forgottenyesterdays.com/graphics/2_135_3.jpg
I'm sorry but this is one of the funniest things I've seen in ages. Here's a perfectly normal picture of the great band on stage but wait...have two stubborn sharks played a game of chicken in the background? It puts me in mind of some old footage of Genesis in their Peter Gabriel days-I am torn between crying with laughter and loving the music.
Full Tilt Boogie
08-11-2008, 05:19 PM
I am new to Yes as a band, I like them very much but there is a lot more to find out about them. What is this "struggle" between bass guitar and drum all about?
I don't know if "struggle" is the right word Sam, as the bass/drum relationship, as I was always taught, is the combo which 'anchors' the band and from which other musicians in the band (unless you're Ritchie Blackmore) take their cue.
I've always got the impression that Chris Squire and Alan White are strong mates and get a good deal out of playing with each other - especially important with complex time signatures on tunes like 'Awaken'.
orpheus
08-11-2008, 06:56 PM
Maybe they mean the "evil" drum solo on the live version of Ritual as it was captured on Yesshows!!! :rcking:
I always imagined his head spinning round and pea soup
I don't know if "struggle" is the right word Sam, as the bass/drum relationship, as I was always taught, is the combo which 'anchors' the band and from which other musicians in the band (unless you're Ritchie Blackmore) take their cue.
I've always got the impression that Chris Squire and Alan White are strong mates and get a good deal out of playing with each other - especially important with complex time signatures on tunes like 'Awaken'.
I did not mean "struggle" as in the interpersonal relationships between the band members. I meant a piece of music that featured some kind of musical battle with one instrument representing good the other evil. I think now that it is featured at the end of "Ritual" though I could be wrong.
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