Tagging ABWH as Yes :)

[nitrus]

Some time ago I made myself an mp3 collection/DVD of the whole Yes studio and live catalog all grabbed from by much treasured CDs. I'm a last.fm user, so proper tagging does make a difference for me. Do you think it's allright if I tagged both ABWH albums (ABWH and An Evening of Yes Music Plus) as Yes?

Actually, I'm not gonna change my mind or something, I think it's allright, I'm just curious what's the view on it of you guys...:)

[Scottie]

I have always stored my albums alphabetically. I originally had them filed under A. What seems unimportant now is exactly when I changed this, FWIW they are now both in Yes' chronological order. If Drama can be Yes, so can ABWH.

Was there a Yes album released in '89 that I don't know about? ;-)

[relayerjim]

I have all my Yes related mp3's tagged with Yes so I can keep them together.

Like this
Yes
Yes (ABWH)
Yes (Jon Anderson)
Yes (Chris Squire)...
....
....

[Dantalion Rides Again]

Yeah, I mean ... who's an ABWH fan that doesn't like Yes as well? They're really not separate bands. I file my ABWH under Yes.

I basically think of it as a unique Yes album. The one they didn't call Yes.

[Original_Shifty]

If Yesworld shows it within the Yes catalogue then it must be so. I'd tag it as Yes.

[luckeydoug1]

Still a big NO for me. (Unless of course the following are also considered Yes albums: FOOW, Circa:2007, etc). Sorry, not Yes.

[PhaseDance]

Tag it as "Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman & Howe". Include it in a "Yes" playlist if you must.

[relayeire]

I think it's Yes as much as oh, say, the band touring as Yes this summer... only 4 of 5 members... come to think of it, the band that toured as Yes from '97-'01 as well... I keep my ABWH CDs with my Yes CDs...

[CybrKhatru]

Affirmative. :D

[Lifeseeker66]

Still a big NO for me. (Unless of course the following are also considered Yes albums: FOOW, Circa:2007, etc). Sorry, not Yes.

Okay so legally and technically it's not Yes, but come on, four out of five of the best era of the band! Sorry but FOOW (it took me forever to figure out that that was Fish Out of Water) is a solo album (or one out of five), not a group album. And sorry, Circa is a Yes spinoff group with only two out of four members being Yes (Sorry, Billy, but as far as I'm concerned you are lucky to have been an official member of the band). So Circa is as much Yes as Asia is.

So to me, as Jon says on the ABWH video "that's really Yes". Sure Chris is notably absent in the music, but the band, while technically not Yes, is too close to Yes to be called anything else. To me it's substance over form, and the substance of Yes is definitely there.

David

[relayeire]

So to me, as Jon says on the ABWH video "that's really Yes". Sure Chris is notably absent in the music, but the band, while technically not Yes, is too close to Yes to be called anything else. To me it's substance over form, and the substance of Yes is definitely there.

David

just as Drama is also really Yes...

[Lifeseeker66]

just as Drama is also really Yes...

Not disagreeing with that either. With 3/5 of a Classic Yes lineup, plus the name Yes on the album, how could that not be Yes?

:beerchugr:

[Scooty]

Still a big NO for me. (Unless of course the following are also considered Yes albums: FOOW, Circa:2007, etc). Sorry, not Yes.

:thumbs:

I've been here before, I ain't goin' there again.

[JL]

:thumbs:

I've been here before, I ain't goin' there again.

I knew it was just a matter of time before Brother Scooty showed up in this thread. "ABWH are in some way Yesish" threads are like the Scooty Batsignal.

[Scooty]

I knew it was just a matter of time before Brother Scooty showed up in this thread. "ABWH are in some way Yesish" threads are like the Scooty Batsignal.

It's almost like they do it just to bait me Brother John...:lmao:

[relayeire]

It's almost like they do it just to bait me Brother John...:lmao:

you consider 3/5 Drama as Yes, so why not 4/5 ABWH? what gives, Heddy? ;-)

[Dantalion Rides Again]

I just had this image of the clouds shining with a roving image of the ABWH album cover, but with the Yes logo across the top ... and of Scooty in the goofy ship from the Tales liner notes, shooting out from the bushes that cover the hidden entrance to his Yes-cave.

[Lifeseeker66]

you consider 3/5 Drama as Yes, so why not 4/5 ABWH? what gives, Heddy? ;-)

I think 60% or better has to qualify, unless the sound comes out so different that it's something totally new. You get down to 50% I think it gets a little harder to capture the sound of the benchmark lineup.:drummer:

[Scooty]

you consider 3/5 Drama as Yes, so why not 4/5 ABWH? what gives, Heddy? ;-)

Biting tounge very very hard....

So, actually it would sound like

Bithing thounge vevy vevy hud..








Hedley!!

[RickyG]

Of course ABWH is YES.
The only reason it wasn't called YES was a court decision.

ABWH, in addition to having 4/5th's of the classic band, in comparison to Drama's 3/5th's, also had two founding members of the band whereas Drama had only one.

(And of course there's the fact that ABWH is simply better music than Drama..... :sneaky: :evil2: ;) )

[Scooty]

Of course ABWH is YES.
The only reason it wasn't called YES was a court decision.

ABWH, in addition to having 4/5th's of the classic band, in comparison to Drama's 3/5th's, also had two founding members of the band whereas Drama had only one.

(And of course there's the fact that ABWH is simply better music than Drama..... :sneaky: :evil2: ;) )

bullshyte.

Drama was and is a Yes album, and a KILLER one. It rocks harder, has tighter playing, awesome arrangements and production that was second to none. Hell, the album cover even kicked azz.

How many members have been in and out of this band at this point...16??

I don't care if it was Anderson, Kaye,Rabin and White
or Horn, Banks, Bruford and Koroshev..

They're sole intention was NOT to be Yes. There already was one..

Read up on the members of ABWH on this matter, everybody, excepting Jon of course because he thinks he "is" Yes, very much did not want to be Yes.

[Lifeseeker66]

Not arguing for or against either side, but I figured I'd comment on this since some are bound to jump on it. To correct, ABWH did not have 4/5th's of the classic lineup. The classic Yes lineup has always been recognized as Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/White.

So having said this, both ABWH and Drama had an equal 3/5ths of the classic lineup.

You make a great point in bringing up that Bruford was a founding member of Yes, however. If I recall the trailer on In the Big Dream, the ABWH video, they state "four of the original elements are in place". One has to assume they mean the elements of the lineup that first hit it really big (starting with Fragile, of course).

In any event, I don't like one album over the other, I just appreciate them each for the music they bring to the table.

Of course ABWH is YES.
The only reason it wasn't called YES was a court decision.

ABWH, in addition to having 4/5th's of the classic band, in comparison to Drama's 3/5th's, also had two founding members of the band whereas Drama had only one.

(And of course there's the fact that ABWH is simply better music than Drama..... :sneaky: :evil2: ;) )

[RickyG]

bullshyte.

Drama was and is a Yes album, and a KILLER one. It rocks harder, has tighter playing, awesome arrangements and production that was second to none. Hell, the album cover even kicked azz.

How many members have been in and out of this band at this point...16??

I don't care if it was Anderson, Kaye,Rabin and White
or Horn, Banks, Bruford and Koroshev..

They're sole intention was NOT to be Yes. There already was one..

Read up on the members of ABWH on this matter, everybody, excepting Jon of course because he thinks he "is" Yes, very much did not want to be Yes.

Oh Scooty, your anger and self-righteousness are so easily baited on this matter!! :winknudge

Peace, over and out.

[Scooty]

Oh Scooty, your anger and self-righteousness are so easily baited on this matter!! :winknudge

Peace, over and out.

I KNOW!!!

So stop talking about it already Geeeeez!!!!

:lmao:

[RickyG]

Not arguing for or against either side, but I figured I'd comment on this since some are bound to jump on it. To correct, ABWH did not have 4/5th's of the classic lineup. The classic Yes lineup has always been recognized as Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/White.


I don't agree.
There are two "classic" line-up's.
One with Bruford and one with White.
You can't tell me that the band that did "Fragile" and "CTTE" isn't the classic band.
Or that the drummer who recorded "The Yes Album" as well as Fragile and CTTE isn't a "classic" member.

[CybrKhatru]

You two are like an old married couple. :lmao:

[Lifeseeker66]

I don't agree.
There are two "classic" line-up's.
One with Bruford and one with White.
You can't tell me that the band that did "Fragile" and "CTTE" isn't the classic band.
Or that the drummer who recorded "The Yes Album" as well as Fragile and CTTE isn't a "classic" member.

I hear what you're saying... but I'm telling you what is RECOGNIZED as THE classic Yes lineup. Even the bandmembers refer to this as such. Go look at Rick Wakeman's statement to read that he hopes that this isn't the end of the classic lineup. That lineup being Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/White, or the one that up to this tour has been Yes since Talk (except for Igor on The Ladder and Billy as a recognized sixth member on OYE). This same lineup ran from Tales through Tormato (excluding Relayer with Moraz). Sorry, there are many great lineups, but only one classic lineup.

Dave

[Scottie]

:thumbs:

I've been here before, I ain't goin' there again.

It's almost like they do it just to bait me Brother John...:lmao:

you consider 3/5 Drama as Yes, so why not 4/5 ABWH? what gives, Heddy? ;-)
Why Scooty & Squire are synonymous for goodness sakes! .... Where have you been? ;-)

[PhaseDance]

Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/White have done some great things but I'll always recognize Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/Bruford as the classic line-up.

[relayeire]

Biting tounge very very hard....

So, actually it would sound like

Bithing thounge vevy vevy hud..








Hedley!!

nuthem, eh?


Not arguing for or against either side, but I figured I'd comment on this since some are bound to jump on it. To correct, ABWH did not have 4/5th's of the classic lineup. The classic Yes lineup has always been recognized as Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/White.



true, the five you mentioned are called that... but substitute Bill for Alan and you have the original classic lineup - the one that made Fragile and CTTE...

I don't agree.
There are two "classic" line-up's.
One with Bruford and one with White.
You can't tell me that the band that did "Fragile" and "CTTE" isn't the classic band.
Or that the drummer who recorded "The Yes Album" as well as Fragile and CTTE isn't a "classic" member.

exactly!

[Dantalion Rides Again]

I don't have Classic Yes, but if I remember right, it's mostly got Bill Bruford tracks.

I personally prefer ABWH, but Drama is the one with the logo on it. IMO, that is the ONLY thing - the actual brand name on the cover - that could possibly cause Drama to be more of a Yes album than ABWH.

Drama is great for all the reasons Scooty listed, ...

Drama was and is a Yes album, and a KILLER one. It rocks harder, has tighter playing, awesome arrangements and production that was second to none. Hell, the album cover even kicked azz...


I feel that way about Rush's Power Windows album too, but that don't make it a great Yes record.

:silly:


Read up on the members of ABWH on this matter, everybody, excepting Jon of course because he thinks he "is" Yes, very much did not want to be Yes.

Dude, nobody wants to be Yes. Why do you think everyone quits every few years?!

:D

[JL]

I don't care if ABWH is/was Yes. I just care that they are good, and they are. ABWH is one of my favorite albums of the 80s.

[Lifeseeker66]

I love them both... as I said previously. The band themselves have referred to one lineup as the classic lineup. I, personally, appreciate most of them.

[Lifeseeker66]

bullshyte.

They're sole intention was NOT to be Yes. There already was one..

Read up on the members of ABWH on this matter, everybody, excepting Jon of course because he thinks he "is" Yes, very much did not want to be Yes.

I have also heard certain members of Yes blast Chris Squire for calling Drama "Yes", that he shouldn't have done so without Jon. So Jon is not the only one to think he is Yes. Personally, if you don't have Jon and Chris, then it shouldn't be called Yes.

I still love Drama, don't get me wrong! Okay??? lol

[JL]

Of course ABWH is YES.
The only reason it wasn't called YES was a court decision.

ABWH, in addition to having 4/5th's of the classic band, in comparison to Drama's 3/5th's, also had two founding members of the band whereas Drama had only one.

(And of course there's the fact that ABWH is simply better music than Drama..... :sneaky: :evil2: ;) )

I'm with you right up to the point that you say it is a "fact" that ABWH is better music than Drama. To be a "fact", something needs to be factual, and this assertion is far from it. Like I've said numerous times on this site, I LOVE the ABWH album and count the two shows I saw on the tour as among the most vital concert experiences of my life. But Drama is a better album.

[Full Tilt Boogie]

Some time ago I made myself an mp3 collection/DVD of the whole Yes studio and live catalog all grabbed from by much treasured CDs. I'm a last.fm user, so proper tagging does make a difference for me. Do you think it's allright if I tagged both ABWH albums (ABWH and An Evening of Yes Music Plus) as Yes?

Actually, I'm not gonna change my mind or something, I think it's allright, I'm just curious what's the view on it of you guys...:)

Well it's more 'Yes' than any of the other aberrations loosely formed of former members we've seen to date, so I'd go for it mate. I know I did ;)

[milestownyes]

It's all the family of Yes. If one is going to be entirely technical then the only "true" Yes would be: Anderson, Squire, Banks, Kaye and Bruford. It's only been 2/5 Yes for the last how long? Quibbling over which band is really Yes just doesn't make any sense at all to me.

[Bobby Dread]

Some time ago I made myself an mp3 collection/DVD of the whole Yes studio and live catalog all grabbed from by much treasured CDs. I'm a last.fm user, so proper tagging does make a difference for me. Do you think it's allright if I tagged both ABWH albums (ABWH and An Evening of Yes Music Plus) as Yes?

Actually, I'm not gonna change my mind or something, I think it's allright, I'm just curious what's the view on it of you guys...:)


Very funny you should mention this...

I joined Last.fm two weeks ago and quickly realized that proper tagging makes all the difference if you want albums showing up on the album charts. I'm considering deleting my account and rejoining because of so many albums not showing up. I've been making my i-Tunes listings more accurate to match what Last.fm shows on the artist pages. So just this weekend, I actually changed those two ABWH albums from Yes as the artist to Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe, because that's how the album is properly listed. I don't know if it'll matter unless I open a new account, we'll see. A number of proper Yes albums aren't showing up either like CTTE and Relayer (gasp!) because i-Tunes had [Extra Tracks] behind the album title. So if you care, tagging to match what shows under the artist's albums in Last.fm is critical.

I'd love to check out your musical tastes, Nitrus. Drop me a PM with your user name, if you'd like. I'm really enjoying Last.fm so far.

Mike

[gt76yesman]

It's almost like they do it just to bait me Brother John...:lmao:
Ah yes, here we are again Scooty! We'll have a beer and discuss it this August!

I say YES it is.

Of course, I am not Chris Squire, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night! (not)

[gt76yesman]

Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/White have done some great things but I'll always recognize Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/Bruford as the classic line-up.
So Phase, by that grouping Drama only had two of the classic line-up.





Sorry Scooty, I just need to controversy in my life right now....

[gt76yesman]

I don't care if ABWH is/was Yes. I just care that they are good, and they are. ABWH is one of my favorite albums of the 80s.
Agree 100%

I really wish ABHW would make another record!

[PhaseDance]

So Phase, by that grouping Drama only had two of the classic line-up.
Personnel aside ... however you slice it, Drama is a very strong Yes album. I prefer it to the ABWH album.

As much as I dig Bruford, he really needed to step away from the electronic drum kit.

[gt76yesman]

Personnel aside ... however you slice it, Drama is a very strong Yes album. I prefer it to the ABWH album.

As much as I dig Bruford, he really needed to step away from the electronic drum kit.
Yes, his devotion to that ancient religion (electronic drum kit) is no match for a fully operation battle star! :lol:

[luckeydoug1]

Okay so legally and technically it's not Yes, but come on, four out of five of the best era of the band! Sorry but FOOW (it took me forever to figure out that that was Fish Out of Water) is a solo album (or one out of five), not a group album. And sorry, Circa is a Yes spinoff group with only two out of four members being Yes (Sorry, Billy, but as far as I'm concerned you are lucky to have been an official member of the band). So Circa is as much Yes as Asia is.

So to me, as Jon says on the ABWH video "that's really Yes". Sure Chris is notably absent in the music, but the band, while technically not Yes, is too close to Yes to be called anything else. To me it's substance over form, and the substance of Yes is definitely there.

David
The reason I cite Fish Out Of Water is that 3 yesmen appear on this album: Squire, Bruford, and Moraz.

And, no, I don't consider either FOOW, Circa: nor Asia to be Yes, only using the same logic. So each to our own (and no malice intended toward those who feel differently from me), but ABWH will always be ABWH, and not Yes. And personally, I still do not find that era of the band you refer to as the best era. The music from that era continues to be my least favorite, (I prefer the music of YesWest, the original lineup, as well as the music from the 90s on...) but that's just me.
bullshyte.

Drama was and is a Yes album, and a KILLER one. It rocks harder, has tighter playing, awesome arrangements and production that was second to none. Hell, the album cover even kicked azz.

How many members have been in and out of this band at this point...16??

I don't care if it was Anderson, Kaye,Rabin and White
or Horn, Banks, Bruford and Koroshev..

They're sole intention was NOT to be Yes. There already was one..

Read up on the members of ABWH on this matter, everybody, excepting Jon of course because he thinks he "is" Yes, very much did not want to be Yes.

Spot on!


Now for me, the real Yes lineup is: Anderson, Squire, Banks, Bruford, Kaye. (but this is for another debate!)

[relayeire]

Yes, his devotion to that ancient religion (electronic drum kit) is no match for a fully operation battle star! :lol:

lol... he did overuse them on that album... yet I heard later that one of the reasons he left the 90s Crimson was because Fripp wanted him to continue using electronic drums, and Bruford didn't want to...

[luckeydoug1]

I really wish ABHW would make another record!I believe they tried, and we got Union :winknudge

[relayeire]

I believe they tried, and we got Union :winknudge

well, a lot of the tapes from that proposed second ABWH album (now available as a Jon bootleg) are not songs that ended up on Union...

say, there's an interesting idea for a thread: we already have ABWH and Drama not being considered a Yes album by some... how about Union? the more I know (no pun intended), the more I think it's not a Yes album...

[Mind Driver]

I personally prefer ABWH, but Drama is the one with the logo on it. IMO, that is the ONLY thing - the actual brand name on the cover - that could possibly cause Drama to be more of a Yes album than ABWH.

I agree with you Kevin. Drama was OK, but nowhere close to ABWH.

Sorry Scotty - I can't listen to a "Yes" that doesn't have Jon at the mic.

[Lifeseeker66]

well, a lot of the tapes from that proposed second ABWH album (now available as a Jon bootleg) are not songs that ended up on Union...

say, there's an interesting idea for a thread: we already have ABWH and Drama not being considered a Yes album by some... how about Union? the more I know (no pun intended), the more I think it's not a Yes album...

Hey maybe "The More we Live, Let Go" was prophetic in a sense? lol

I have to say that I enjoyed Union, but there are some dead spots on it for me (like say, Angkor Wat the hell?). I have learned through Steve Howe's timeline, among other places, that Union had a lot of non-Yes people playing on it (I believe that Jimmy Haun of Circa was one of them) without the authorization of the band. Still, I think it's got to be a Yes album since Anderson/Squire and the Yes name are on it. Just not my favorite listen.

Dave

[Dantalion Rides Again]

Drama has grown on me over the years. I think Jon's lyrics are really missed .. obviously his singing, but I'm not nuts about the Drama lyrics.

Because I don't draw a graph. :D

All in all I still definitely prefer ABWH, but they're both very good albums.

You might have to open your mind to really allow yourself to enjoy one or the other (depending on which of the two it is that bugs you ... it's always ONLY one or the other it seems! Does anyone hate both?) ... I certainly had to open my mind to Drama. My first impression of it wasn't a good one, and I was introduced to Yes by someone with a very low opinion of Drama - that didn't help either.

[Lifeseeker66]

You might have to open your mind to really allow yourself to enjoy one or the other (depending on which of the two it is that bugs you ... it's always ONLY one or the other it seems! Does anyone hate both?) ... I certainly had to open my mind to Drama. My first impression of it wasn't a good one, and I was introduced to Yes by someone with a very low opinion of Drama - that didn't help either.

I accepted both rather easily. I really got into Yes in the summer of 1980, and while Jon was not on Drama, I was young enough to give it a listen. My older brother was into Yes since the hey days, and he accepted it okay too. Still, I thoroughly enjoyed Yes more with Jon in it, and even during the Yes West years, I felt rewarded by the return of BWH. I guess I am a Yes purist by choice.

Dave

[harty]

yes ABWH is yes.
At a time when yes members were all over the place and I wondered if it was all over, out came the ABWH album. It was so freshing to hear. It sounded more like yes than some of the works of late. it had classic yes endings, long songs and a true yes sound.
The live show was kickass. To my amazement there stood Tony Levin on stage to fill in for Chris. Not too shabby a replacement.
For me, I had hoped another album had come from this.

[islandsofarabia]

tagging has evolved to a subjective art form - whatever the tagger relates to the tag-ee, is acceptable.

that being said...

the big-bang reaction that started Yes, was when Jon was introduced to Chris by Jack Barrie at the La Chasse club. And it just seems clear to me that the Yes lineage, sound, power, and success, from that moment on, ran through Chris Squire.

They're all musical heroes to me, but everyone else hops on Chris' back and the train moves down the track.

run through the light...now everything is all right

[Scooty]

tagging has evolved to a subjective art form - whatever the tagger relates to the tag-ee, is acceptable.

that being said...

the big-bang reaction that started Yes, was when Jon was introduced to Chris by Jack Barrie at the La Chasse club. And it just seems clear to me that the Yes lineage, sound, power, and success, from that moment on, ran through Chris Squire.

They're all musical heroes to me, but everyone else hops on Chris' back and the train moves down the track.

run through the light...now everything is all right

There's a reason he's never left the band, and the ONLY consistent member..

Nice post!

[ZEN]

As far as I'm concerned BOTH ABW&H albums are Classic YES, much much better than the drivel of Talk

[Parish]

As far as I'm concerned BOTH ABW&H albums are Classic YES, much much better than the drivel of Talk

There are two?

[CybrKhatru]

I guess I tag it as Yes on the Mp3 player just so I can group all the music together much easier!

[Melissa]

Some time ago I made myself an mp3 collection/DVD of the whole Yes studio and live catalog all grabbed from by much treasured CDs. I'm a last.fm user, so proper tagging does make a difference for me. Do you think it's allright if I tagged both ABWH albums (ABWH and An Evening of Yes Music Plus) as Yes?

Actually, I'm not gonna change my mind or something, I think it's allright, I'm just curious what's the view on it of you guys...:)

I have them tagged as Album Artist: Yes, Artist: ABWH in my comp music library. That way, they show up with Yes and everybody's happy :D

[how very Monk]

[Mind Driver]

I guess I tag it as Yes on the Mp3 player just so I can group all the music together much easier!

Me too!

[Dantalion Rides Again]

There's the Steve vs. Trevor debate that we're all oh-so familiar with ... but the more vital debate is probably Jon vs. Chris. I've noticed there are Jon fans, and there are Chris fans.

Personally, for me, it's always been about Jon Anderson & his vision. I've never really accepted Chris Squire as the architect or the visionary to any real extent. I love his harmony sensibility - it's wonderful. It translates to his bass playing, which is so unique and refreshing. But just because he's on one more album than Jon Anderson doesn't distinguish him as the more significant member. Not to me.

Could it be that Chris and Jon bring elements to the band that are exclusive of one another, and that I'm just more inclined to bear witness to Jon's work than to Chris's? Possibly. Don't answer that as if you know, cuz you couldn't, and by God I'll come over there and smother you with my extra copy of Olias.

:D

Anyone care to weigh in on the Chris vs. Jon question? Maybe it deserves its own thread ... but it's totally relevant to this ABWH discussion. The anti-Jon gang loves to bash this record, but those pro-Jon folks all seem to love it.

One last point ... I love a lot of what Jon's done, but not everything. That said, I simply do not relate to those who love Yes but can't get into Jon ... people suggesting that Yes go on without Jon ... or that Chris is really the Main Guy. I just don't understand it. Jon's voice & lyrics & passion are at the heart of what I love about Yes most. As a musician, I recognize that it's Steve and Chris and the rest of the cast of characters who help to make it all actually happen, but Jon rules yo. Stop hatin' on our buddy Jon.

[JL]

Using the formula laid out above, I'm not sure where I fit in, because I love Drama and ABWH. I guess I'm partial to Jon and Chris rather than Jon or Chris.

[Mind Driver]

Using the formula laid out above, I'm not sure where I fit in, because I love Drama and ABWH. I guess I'm partial to Jon and Chris rather than Jon or Chris.

I agree with this to a certain point. I think some of the songs on Drama are good, but would have been better with Jon's vocals.

I think that Yes without Jon is like any band that you fall in love with that loses their lead singer - it just isn't the same when they try to replace him/her.

[djcub]

I know someone isnt dissing Bruford as NOT being considered part of the "classic" Yes lineup...thats insane.

Forget anti Yes fans, but even anti prog or anti classic rock fans hear stuff from the holy trinity of The Yes Album, Fragile, and CTTE and say: "you know what, I gotta admit those are some damn solid albums..." You try that with the lineup without him and you get every response from "Meh" to "I dont get it." And I aint talking pop and rap fans neither. people with sophistated and/or snobby attitudes can't deny those three masterpieces. That drumming was part of what made prog rock so unique. The rest that followed had some great stuff on it, but those three were powerful. They were complex AND catchy, rather than one extreme or the other.

As for Tony Levin...maybe its the King Crimson fan in me, but he does more than an adequate job on the ABWH album. He's an amazing stick player. you dont play in a band with Robert Fripp and come out merely "adequate".

I take it to heart cause ABWH was the true beginning of my love for Yes as I was graduating high school at the height of the classic rock revival of the late 80's/early 90's. The Grateful Dead were packing stadiums, Floyd's return, Zeppelin and King Crimson were influencing the alternative rock scene that was about to explode...Bruford's period with the band was what turned people on. ABWH's tour did fantastic. The Union tour was icing on the cake. But to get rid of the BWH part for Talk? Didnt work. By that time you could not deny what made Yes special...even Wakeman said so in Classic Artists. I personally would've been totally happy if they split up again and kept ABWH going.

Sorry, it just drives me crazy when I don't see Bruford get the credit he deserves. No one can play drums like that. As Chris told Mojo in the Prog Rock issue: Alan was a good drummer but he was NOTHING like Bruford.

I think Alan is great, but its gonna take more than Tales, Going For the One, Tormato, and Keys to the Ascension for me to accept that that is the classic Yes; but the lineup that made The Yes Album, Fragile, and Close to the Edge is NOT classic Yes.

[YesHut]

How about the question, more current in my opinion. How many Yesfans want to concider Circa as the new Yes? I don't and won't concider Circa as Yes. But many seem like they do.

[nitrus]

How about the question, more current in my opinion. How many Yesfans want to concider Circa as the new Yes? I don't and won't concider Circa as Yes. But many seem like they do.

I don't think it's the same matter as ABWH. Us Circa: fans consider the band something like a worthy Yes replacement or substitute, but not a Yes per se, if you see what I mean.

Ultimately, speaking in the spirit of this thread, I don't think anyone would tag their Circa: tracks as Yes.

But... good question...:-D

[YesHut]

Us Circa: fans consider the band something like a worthy Yes replacement or substitute, but not a Yes per se, if you see what I mean.



This is what I am referring too, thanks for voicing my thoughts.


Back to ABWH, I had concidered this version or line-up, Yes. In truth, No Chris, No Yes. The band was Yes without Jon, But the group of musicians without Chris, ABWH, not Yes, but so damn close. IMHO.

[sam]

If I was in a position where I had to put Yes and Yes-related records in order ( I am a new fan and as yet do not own all their recording material), I would only put records credited to the band "Yes" with Yes records otherwise it just gets too confusing because of issues of what constitutes "Yes" etc.

[nitrus]

If I was in a position where I had to put Yes and Yes-related records in order ( I am a new fan and as yet do not own all their recording material), I would only put records credited to the band "Yes" with Yes records otherwise it just gets too confusing because of issues of what constitutes "Yes" etc.

I, for one, have the ABWH album right next to Big Generator in my shelf. An Evening of Yes Music Plus goes right thereafter (I don't give a damn it was first released in 1994 - the logical order, when the album was recorded and where it fits historically matters to me), and then Union, etc...

[DWStraile]

This might not make sense but I consider a Yes with either Bill or Alan as being the classic line up. Both have earned this in my opinion. One could argue Bill is better but no one can argue that Alan has not been there for this band. And, Going for the One matches anything in my opinion.

[DWStraile]

And as for Yessongs, most newbies who hear it cannot believe it is live.

[ZEN]

I think one of the finest Live recordings of Close To The Edge is on the ABW&H 'Live' Cd.
The 1st ABW&H album - is more Yes than either 90125, Big generator or Talk (*)- It has 'Classic' tracks and moments on it, and saw Jon return to some of the finest lyrics he has written since CTTE and TFTO..

They ARE Yes albums - and with Tony Levin being (Technically) a better bass player than Chris. Chris Squire's absence is noticed more because of his voice and writing contributions, rather thna his bass playing.
(Oooh! Controversy or what! LOL!)

(*) Also one of the reasons ABW&H sounds more Yes than the rabin era stuff, is because of the presence of Bill Bruford - whose drumming style is far more suited to Yes Music than Alan White - Bruford plays drums like a musician and Percussionist - Alan White is less creative and able (Technically).

[DWStraile]

I remember the first time ABWH came to Philly. There was what seemed like a 10 minute ovation after each and every song. I have never witness that before or since in all of my concert days.

To Philly, that was Yes back together again after many years. We tagged them as Yes. We would have loved to have Chris in there but Tony filled in nicely.

[sam]

I, for one, have the ABWH album right next to Big Generator in my shelf. An Evening of Yes Music Plus goes right thereafter (I don't give a damn it was first released in 1994 - the logical order, when the album was recorded and where it fits historically matters to me), and then Union, etc...

How you arrange your record collection is your choice -you're the one who's going to listen to the collection so how you arrange it is dependent on factors that you (and you alone) feel are important. I don't like ambiguity myself -where do you draw the line? - and would prefer, given the choice, to cut the confusion by simply placing all records credited to "Yes" under the heading of "Yes records". What's in a name, though? I respectfully say that judging by some of the people's replies here the answer to this question is- a lot. A band's name does seem to matter.

[YESOLA]

I remember the first time ABWH came to Philly. There was what seemed like a 10 minute ovation after each and every song. I have never witness that before or since in all of my concert days.

To Philly, that was Yes back together again after many years. We tagged them as Yes. We would have loved to have Chris in there but Tony filled in nicely.

I remember that as well in NY. There was a sense that "Yes" was back, no doubt.

[YESOLA]

I think one of the finest Live recordings of Close To The Edge is on the ABW&H 'Live' Cd.
The 1st ABW&H album - is more Yes than either 90125, Big generator or Talk (*)- It has 'Classic' tracks and moments on it, and saw Jon return to some of the finest lyrics he has written since CTTE and TFTO..

They ARE Yes albums - and with Tony Levin being (Technically) a better bass player than Chris. Chris Squire's absence is noticed more because of his voice and writing contributions, rather thna his bass playing.
(Oooh! Controversy or what! LOL!)

(*) Also one of the reasons ABW&H sounds more Yes than the rabin era stuff, is because of the presence of Bill Bruford - whose drumming style is far more suited to Yes Music than Alan White - Bruford plays drums like a musician and Percussionist - Alan White is less creative and able (Technically).

I'm not sure I agree with not noticing Levin. I could notice his style being different than Chris. Levin was great, but I missed Chris for sure.

But, I agree about noticing how the band went overall. I had just seen four Yes west concerts over the last four or five years, and just had seen Yes west only a few months before the ABWH show in the Nassau Coliseum on Long Island.

The tempos were different, Steve Howe, and Bruford yeah (although the electronic drums were a bit annoying) ...the way they played Starship Trooper ...Wakeman solo on ROundabout...no Kaye slathering job....all much different than Yes west and what I had been yearning for really.

Yes west concerts were great and had some tremendous energy...but after I saw ABWH, I felt like I had been at a show the older guys were telling me I missed in the seventies.

[Original_Shifty]

Excellent!

As do I.

I, for one, have the ABWH album right next to Big Generator in my shelf.

[Full Tilt Boogie]

Some time ago I made myself an mp3 collection/DVD of the whole Yes studio and live catalog all grabbed from by much treasured CDs. I'm a last.fm user, so proper tagging does make a difference for me. Do you think it's allright if I tagged both ABWH albums (ABWH and An Evening of Yes Music Plus) as Yes?

Actually, I'm not gonna change my mind or something, I think it's allright, I'm just curious what's the view on it of you guys...:)

I do on my iPod. Why wouldn't you? It's not as if they're all former members of Mrs Peabody's Dancing Bears, is it? ;)

[harty]

yesola
I like what you said about missing something. That's exactly what I felt. The band was tight. Sure Squire and White were gone but when you repalce them with Bruford ( no problems ) and Levin ( which was truly an awesome choice ) I left the concert feeling like I finally had seen the band play as it should. I hadn't seen wakeman since the Tormato tour and that made the show. Levin was a surprise but he was a big name in my music world as he was with Gabriel at the time. Brufor / White mattered none in the grand scheme of things. They nailed AYAI that night. And Jon went off an a spritual vocal trip at the end of Owner...NOt a favorite song of mine, but that voice was uplifting. When Jon came out and did a solo on Time and a Word I was in awe being able to finally get a taste of the old Yes that I had been longing for.

[The Whale]

Still a big NO for me. (Unless of course the following are also considered Yes albums: FOOW, Circa:2007, etc). Sorry, not Yes.
If Jon, Steve, Rick, and Bill put out an album called Brittny Spears I would still file it under Yes.:headset:

[Borris]

There's the Steve vs. Trevor debate that we're all oh-so familiar with ... but the more vital debate is probably Jon vs. Chris. I've noticed there are Jon fans, and there are Chris fans.

Personally, for me, it's always been about Jon Anderson & his vision. I've never really accepted Chris Squire as the architect or the visionary to any real extent. I love his harmony sensibility - it's wonderful. It translates to his bass playing, which is so unique and refreshing. But just because he's on one more album than Jon Anderson doesn't distinguish him as the more significant member. Not to me.

Anyone care to weigh in on the Chris vs. Jon question? Maybe it deserves its own thread ... but it's totally relevant to this ABWH discussion. The anti-Jon gang loves to bash this record, but those pro-Jon folks all seem to love it.

.

Well first off on my ipod i have ABWH as the album and the band as Yes. For me this album was more Yes than the then current Rabin Yes, it was just legal rights that made it otherwise.

I'm with Dantalion on this, I see Jon as the creative heart of the band and with Wakeman, Howe and Bruford it is Yes for me, for sure. I remember reading an interview with Rick Wakeman where he was talking about Jon's role and how he came up with not just words but much of the melody and musical direction. Jon is the real vision of the band.

I like Drama, but it was something of a pale imitation of their glory days, ABWH was new and brimming with creativity. I love that album & don't have a problem with the electronic drums either, I was actually more excited about the inclusion of Bruford than the absence of Squire.

[Bo Locks]

I just checked the cover of my ABWH CD and it still says "ABWH".

No... Wait... Wait... Oh. Sorry, my mistake. It's "ABWH" right enough. (And my Drama has some panthers on it and a wiggly "yes" logo.)

I'm just not clever enough to rebadge the band's work. Anybody else? You can file it with ZZ Top but it will still say Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe on the outside.

I don't file Kilgore Trout with Kurt Vonnegut, and I don't file Theodore Sturgeon with Fish.

[90125yes]

ABWH IS YES

end of story

fantastic record , fantastic lineup , fantastic tour

[Bo Locks]

fantastic record , fantastic lineup , fantastic tourpants drum sound?

[Scooty]

ABWH IS YES

end of story

fantastic record , fantastic lineup , fantastic tour

:ignore:

[90125yes]

post by bob locks

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="60%">Re: Tagging ABWH as Yes :)
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by 90125yes http://www.yesfans.com/images/FH_Faddah_F/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?p=1636552#post1636552)
fantastic record , fantastic lineup , fantastic tour
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
pants drum sound?

----

so you don't like the original YES drummer then ?
<!-- / message -->

[90125yes]

anderson

bruford

wakeman

howe


what is the problem

it is now within YES 's official disography

[Bo Locks]

so you don't like the original YES drummer then ?No, I said I don't like electronic drums, but as the band wasn't Yes, there's no need to comment further.

Bo Ligerent

[CloseToTheHedge]

I use last.fm and can get a bit pedantic about using the correct main tags on files*

The band was quite clearly and obviously titled Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe (insert commas if desired), and was clearly intended as a separate band in terms of publishing, publicity from Yes. If Mabel Greer's Toyshop had released a record with their name on it and I was scrobbling it, I'd tag it as Mabel Greer's Toyshop.

Therefore, all ABWH tracks have "Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe" as the track artist.

...However, I obviously place the ABWH files under my Yes folder, and since I have my music library sorted by Album Artist, I just enter Yes as the Album Artist for all my ABWH tracks. That way it's all together.


*(I still frustrate endlessly over whether "Mood for a Day" should be under "Steve Howe" or "Yes"... but since it's got so many scrobbles under "Yes" I just use that, unless it were from a Steve Howe solo album, which I don't have. Yes, I need to get a life.)

(and a Steve Howe solo album - can you believe they actually sell one or two of them here? Bit hefty though)

[90125yes]

<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by 90125yes http://www.yesfans.com/images/FH_Faddah_F/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?p=1636860#post1636860)
so you don't like the original YES drummer then ?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
No, I said I don't like electronic drums, but as the band wasn't Yes, there's no need to comment further.

Bo Ligerent

______

splitting hairs - they are YES alright

4/5 of CTTE

they are YES