YES (and others) CDRs for Trade and Sale! READ

[thestarrmachine]

I don't really have much but I am looking to VASTLY expand my collection. Please go to http://theboot.iwarp.com and look at my list. If you want to trade, GREAT! If you'd rather just buy, I have some of the best prices EVER. Thanks!

[thestarrmachine]

Thanks for your opinion there. Look, you are doing it for gain whether you accept money or not for them, because you are getting something back in return. So you are still profitting. And, you know I only sell them for six dollars which is just a tiny bit more of the equivilent that I'd make from trading in the first place. The only reason I even charge is because I'm trying to pay for college.

But Thank you for trying to make me look bad and make yourself look superior. That's very kind...

[deelovesyes]

i was not trying to make you look bad. honestly i just have strong feelings on this subject.

i will delete my post, i really didn't mean to make you think that way.
please accept my apology,
dee

[nightliner]

I missed the deleted post, but what seems to be the problem here?

[PaulH]

Frankly I am surprized that a site that is fan based would allow a place where the selling of music is conducted.
College or not, or whatever the rationalization may be, I think it's bad karma to sell bootleg copies of music.
It is not ours to sell....we don't own it...in a sense we are only borrowing it and in that sense should pass it along in trade perhaps....but to the sellers of what is not theirs....BAD FORM!
and to the people that purchase...well you are only perpetuating the problem too.....the only way to stop the supply is to remove the demand from the equation....Free the music!!
trade tapes and cd-rs or the like....there is enough capitolism in the arts as it is...lets remove as much as we can from the grass roots level.

[Moongate Climber]

I've always had mixed feelings about bootlegs. (I own 4 Yes bootleg albums, but I bought them in my younger, more foolish days -- honest, Your Honor!) On the one hand, I love the band and respect the musicians and feel as much affection for them as a sane person can have for people he's never actually met. Obviously, the last thing I would ever want to do is cheat them out of compensation for their creations!

On the other hand, I've purchased every album they ever made available, so it's not like they lost a sale! The only Yes music I've ever seen available on bootlegs didn't end up being used by the band on an album anyway, so buying the bootleg was the only way I could have the priviledge of hearing the music, since I didn't get to go to those particular concerts. In this sense, the band didn't really lose money and I had the opportunity to expand my collection of Yes music.

What the band did lose though, is artistic control. They may not have wanted those particular musical moments preserved for posterity. Maybe they felt they had an off night, or made a mistake on a certain song that made them wince a bit. Anyone who plays in front of an audience has those moments eventually, no matter how great they are. You might think that because those moments were heard by thousands of people who paid for tickets to the shows, they should be good enough for the band to share with Yes fans who weren't there. However, these are extremely disciplined, professional musicians with very high standards. They would never release a live album that included songs they felt could have been played much better or had substandard recording or mixing.

If the band gave permission to their fans to record concerts (like the Grateful Dead used to do), I wouldn't have a problem with the fans who made the recordings charging other fans enough to recover their own recording and copying costs. However, they should not be profiting from this. It's not their profit to make. To me, the bottom line is: Yes did NOT give permission to make the recordings and we should all respect their wishes.

Peace and Love to All :-)

[deelovesyes]

thats basically all i said,

i don't believe in selling something that is not mine.
just my opinion.
and i do not always gain or profit, i have sent a number of shows to people for absolutely nothing, just because they love yes and we love yes.

man, in the clubs we belong to, if you do a trade for blanks, some charge postage, i never do, i feel the price of about 55 cents to a dollar is not much. then the cost of my cds, well, i just bought 100 fugis for 40.00 dollars so you do the math, less then 50 cents per cd.
just my thoughts
dee

[rrencko]

All I have to say is that if Yes and other bands would release a proper amount of live recordings there would be no reason for people to bootleg the shows. There are no official live recordings from most of the tours for us to puchase, including the Masterworks tour(00), the Open Your Eyes Tour (97-98), the Talk Tour(94), the Union Tour(91-92), the Big Generator Tour (87-88), the Drama Tour(80), the Tales tour(73-74),the Fragile Tour(71-72), the Yes Album Tour(70-71), or any earlier tour. If the record companies were to have released more live albums, Yes fans would all have bought them. Since I live in a part of the country that is out of range of the only radio station in Central Florida that regularly broadcasts live rock shows, my only recourse is to trade with fellow Yesfans. I'm not in favor of anyone making money from bootlegs, since it is not the bootleggers artistic property. But to trade shows without profit should not be frowned upon. Since it is the only way for some of us to hear the amazing performances that the band has put out on radio, tv and the web.

[deelovesyes]

we trade for almost anything
example: recently a member of here wanted some stuff from us, he sent us address labels, and letterheads with our names on them and a yes logo, we sent him music,
to me those address labels are great, i thank him very much.

another recent trade was a guy in florida who kept wanting to pay, we said no way, he sent copies of interviews he did with a few members of yes.

all this stuff is just as great to us as trading for music,
and we love to share this stuff especially with people who can't get it anywhere else.
when we first started, people were very nice to us, and we want to do the same.

dee:D

[nightliner]

I have been hesitant to respond to this topic, but as the moderator of this section, I guess I should.

It is my understanding through a Yes trading group, that the band has given permission to trade their items...as long as they aren't sold for a profit. Now I must admit, I have not always given away things. My financial position is not one that allows me to do so, so I have at times sold items for the cost of the tape, cd, whatever, plus shipping. While I may have made a buck or two along the way, I never did it for profit, and as a moderator, I don't want to see that happen here. I, like many people on here, have a lot of items to trade, and have done so freely.

If you have something you think is of interest to trade, feel free to post them here. It has been said that Yes has not been to generous in regards to releasing live material that many people maybe eager to get their hands on. I see nothing wrong with spreading the wealth. However, if you should decide to sell the item, for whatever amount, please keep that to yourself. And if you do wish to charge a price for it, out of respect for the band, and the other fans, please keep the price at a point at which you are just recovering your costs.

[1yesfan]

Well let me chime in now, ha ha ha. I can agree that this type of forum for selling boots is shady perhaps. But in the case of Yes I have always seen that most folkst hat do the boot thing are pretty level headed about it. I know some folks that make but a slim amount on making this stuff. Knowing that Idon't buy inflated priced stuff from folks that are out for a big buck. Knowing this I think most Yes fans also see it that way which helps to keep the abuse way down I think. So this forum wil stay on the site untill someone from YES, that can prove they are, comes along and tells me to pull it down.
Like it was posted here, just keep your pricing OFF THE FORUM. Do those dealings in private. If myself or any of the mods see pricing stuff listed in this area we will go ahead and delete that portion of your post. :nono:

Thanks,

[alec90125]

hello all Yesheads
it has been awile since my last post - so here it goes , i definitly agree with dee [ i have no choice ] and with everyone else who believes in the NON SELLING OF BOOTS !
it wasnt that long ago that we only had a few cassettes and one video - but thanx to the best fans in the world - we keep ourselves pretty busy and we never sold anything or turned anyone down .
i would like to thank everyone that has helped us out over the last year or so and we are fortunate to help out other YES FANS and continue in the future .

Talk to you again
alec

[Moongate Climber]

Judging from the 6 posts since my last post, I guess I've been too sanctimonious in the past. Maybe I've been needlessly denying myself a lot more great Yes music. Quote from "Nightliner": "It is my understanding through a Yes trading Group, that the band has given permission to trade their items...as long as they aren't sold for a profit." Nightliner, where did you get this information? I would love to have more Yes music and Yes-related items, but I want to make certain the band would approve of this.

In my last post, I brought up the issue of the band losing artistic control. I thought it was an interesting point of discussion, but I notice nobody has directly addressed that issue since that post. I'm curious: do other Yes fans consider this to be too trivial an issue to bother addressing, or too sticky an issue to deal with? I'm not trying to be confrontational -- I'm just trying to get a reality-check from other YesHeads. It seems to me that ultimately, only the members of the band themselves could settle this issue, but if you have relevant information that I don't have, I would love to hear it! For example, Nightliner apparently knows something I don't.

[nightliner]

Trading by fans of the band is acceptable as long as it is not done for profit, and does not involve unreleased studio material. They are against bootleggers making money from their music, and feel that if fans trade the material, there would be no business for the bootleggers. Take a look at ebay sometime. There are people paying outrageous amounts for bootleg cd's. This is what the band is against.

[thestarrmachine]

By the way, I do primarily trade, and I almost always try to trade before i sell. I only give the option so people can just throw a few bucks my way via paypal if they dont want to take the time to send blanks, or any other kind of thing to me. There are no inflated prices. I try to do things in a oretty fair way. It's not like Bleecker Street records in the city that charges up to $80 a show. That is not only totally insane... it's just plain mean. I still would rather trade first. Anyone who's gone to my site would know that I'm not trying to rob anybody. http://theboot.iwarp.com

Arian*

[nightliner]

The problem is you only list 1 Yes cd.:(

[thestarrmachine]

I only have one YES CD right NOW, but TWO more will be up tonight, and there are more on the way... I just got back into the whole trading thing recently...

[siberian khatru]

I'm looking for fans out West who should soon have copies of this new tour to trade. I'm waiting for the September New York shows myself but would love to get CDRs of some of the earlier shows. If you're recording any of these shows and want to work a trade for stuff from earlier tours, please drop me a line. I've got about 25 shows to offer, a handful on video. Please don't ask about buying shows from me or doing 2-for-1's, I'm interested in trades only.

As to the point made earlier regarding "artistic control", I feel more strongly now, since the KTA releases with their sweetened vocals, that boots are sometimes the only way to hear a raw, unvarnished presentation, warts and all. Hearing Patrick Moraz screw up a passage of 'Heart of the Sunrise' or Chris Squire bust a guitar string is part of the fun of listening to live shows the band would never release. Robert Fripp used to go ballistic about shows being taped. He felt the concert experience was a singular event, never to be replicated. Now, Crimson is shoveling out live shows by the truckload. Go figure. I say as long as fans trade between themselves without ripping off the band, more power to them. It adds to my enjoyment of the band to hear shows from all over the world and from different eras.

[darren828721]

I've always had mixed feelings about bootlegs. (I own 4 Yes bootleg albums, but I bought them in my younger, more foolish days -- honest, Your Honor!) On the one hand, I love the band and respect the musicians and feel as much affection for them as a sane person can have for people he's never actually met. Obviously, the last thing I would ever want to do is cheat them out of compensation for their creations!

On the other hand, I've purchased every album they ever made available, so it's not like they lost a sale! The only Yes music I've ever seen available on bootlegs didn't end up being used by the band on an album anyway, so buying the bootleg was the only way I could have the priviledge of hearing the music, since I didn't get to go to those particular concerts. In this sense, the band didn't really lose money and I had the opportunity to expand my collection of Yes music.

What the band did lose though, is artistic control. They may not have wanted those particular musical moments preserved for posterity. Maybe they felt they had an off night, or made a mistake on a certain song that made them wince a bit. Anyone who plays in front of an audience has those moments eventually, no matter how great they are. You might think that because those moments were heard by thousands of people who paid for tickets to the shows, they should be good enough for the band to share with Yes fans who weren't there. However, these are extremely disciplined, professional musicians with very high standards. They would never release a live album that included songs they felt could have been played much better or had substandard recording or mixing.

If the band gave permission to their fans to record concerts (like the Grateful Dead used to do), I wouldn't have a problem with the fans who made the recordings charging other fans enough to recover their own recording and copying costs. However, they should not be profiting from this. It's not their profit to make. To me, the bottom line is: Yes did NOT give permission to make the recordings and we should all respect their wishes.

Peace and Love to All :-)
thanks for your thoughtful post i never realy thought about the artistic control issue but i understand what your saying