Culmination of an era.

[scootwhoman]

The 1974 release of 'Relayer' represented a milestone in music. A major group could not get their label (Atlantic) to pay for studio time at any major studio. This may have been because the band had not produced any music suitable for airplay since the 'Fragile' album in 1972. (A heavily edited version of "And You And I" was released, and got airplay, fortunately for me.) In spite of the 'Tales From Topographic Oceans' going gold at the time, the label wanted radio tracks.

So, the band, now configured with Patrick Moraz at the keyboards instead of Rick Wakeman, retired to a chateau in the country with Eddie Offord, the artist who had recorded the band for several years. Offord had made enough from working with Yes that he was able to afford a mobile recording studio, which mainly consisted of a truck full of recording equipment, mixers, and amplifiers, and a whole bunch of cable.

Isolating the players in a large house was not a big problem, wiring it was, but it was overcome. The band spent several months rehearsing and recording the album, able to craft a sound for each of the movements of the three songs. Three songs, which span warfare, salvation, energy, and love, and, at least in my mind, constitute a single composition, a symphony. Listening to the last few notes of "To Be Over" is listening to the end of the whole album, not just the end of a song. The range of emotions in the music rivals any classical piece, and the movements are well defined.

But this is a symphony with lyrics, not opera, but passionate, emotive singing, conveying images instead of sentences. And the lyrics are as powerful as the music: "The pen won't stay the demon's wing, the hour approaches, pounding out the Devil's sermon!", "Soon, oh soon the Light, pass within and soothe this endless night... our heart is open, our reason to be here." , "Faster moment spent spread tales of change within the sound, counting form through rhythm electric freedom moves to counterbalance stars expound our conscience all to know and see the look in your eyes.", "After all your soul will still surrender, After all don't doubt your part be ready to be loved."

'Relayer' has a balance no other Yes album has, the dynamic of the four core members, Jon Anderson, Chris Squire, Steve Howe, and Alan White, balanced by the unobtrusive, yet essential keyboards of Patrick Moraz. Rick Wakeman had too big of an ego to merely be a member of Yes, and when he played with them, you always could tell when he was playing. (Well, almost, anyway.) Moraz was able to blend the keyboards with the guitars and vocals much more evenly than Wakeman usually had.

Some say that the reason that Wakeman left was because he refused to become a vegetarian, while other's attribute it to having to play 'Tales' every night while on tour. Whatever the reason, Moraz walked in on a group who knew what they wanted from the keyboards, and who were able to guide him into finding it. "It" was the ethereal, flowing, background sound that supports the guitars and vocals, very similar to the music that Vangelis was creating at that time. (How can you 'write' music that doesn't have notes?) As a matter of fact, Jon, who knew Vangelis, had him try out for the band. For whatever reason, Moraz won the gig, and Vangelis went on to fame and fortune.

This retreat into the country to do an album was to be the end of the early 1970's era of progressively more symphonic music. 'Going For The One' was literally that, a blatant attempt to get the band back onto the radio. The one long composition, heavily influenced by Wakeman, is "Awaken", a mere shadow of the 'Close To The Edge'-Tales-Relayer' works, while "Turn Of The Century" echoes that era more.

Such are my opinions, which have no factual basis, other than extrapolation from things I have read about the band. Please correct me where you know me to be wrong! But it is my assertion that 'Relayer' not only marks the end of an era for the band, but also their greatest work of the entire history of the group. I believe it to be more cohesive than 'Tales', more advanced than 'Close To The Edge', a single composition, made up of three songs, each with movements. A modern symphony.

So, what do think of that?

[gathernear]

Very good post. I don't agree with all of it. Relayer, I am still conflicted about this album. Back when it first came out, I didn't give it a chance. I hated it and that was that. I was angry at Rick for quitting, and I was angry at Yes for continuing without him. I actually quit on Yes at that time. I started getting heavier into Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Jethro Tull, and Pink Floyd. Fortunately for us in the 70s, there was no shortage of great bands. It was easy to ignore Yes. I loved Yes, and I was truly angry about the whole situation. It's extremely silly to even take this kind of attitude, but it was there. I wanted to ignore Yes, yet I found solace in Yesterdays, and the solo albums. I had missed the first two albums, they were nearly impossible to find in Ardmore, Oklahoma. It was a small town with no record stores. All we had were the department stores that had a record section, so Yesterdays was like a new album to me. I loved it. It's still in my top 5. The solo albums, especially Fish Out Of Water, really grabbed me. When I heard that, I realized to myself, that is where Yes went, Chris took them, LOL. And I completely forgot about Relayer.
While Yes were touring with Relayer and the solo tour, I was listening to other bands. I made a second attempt to come back during the solo tour, I had my ticket, it would be my first
Yes concert!! The show was cancelled, and never re-scheduled.
So I was then back at war with Yes.
But the very next year, Rick returned, they put out Going For The One, YES WAS BACK! I got my ticket, and the show was not cancelled, so I finally got to see Yes. I was thoroughly blown away. the next year, Tormato came out, and uh-oh. This one was not as brilliant as GFTO, but I saw them again and another great show. Then they stopped.
Then came Drama. I ignored it. It wasn't until Yesshows that I took notice again. They included recordings from the two tours that I saw, so I got it. That's when I finally gave The Gates Of Delirium a fair shot, and I loved it. Then I went back to Relayer, with mixed results. I fell in love with To Be Over, I thought it was the most beautiful thing I ever heard.
I still do not like Sound Chaser. That song sounds like Steve was into the coke, just too many jagged edges. I still cannot finish that song.
After all this I don't know if I even addressed your post, LOL.
But one point that has stuck is you said that Moraz helped unify their sound again, meaning you couldn't identify the instruments. I remember the first time I'd ever heard Yes, the Roundabout single, I couldn't identify the instruments, it didn't sound like a band, it sounded like music. Relayer, and Moraz brought back that mystery.
And Relayer is the only Yes album that every time I play it, I hear something new. In a weird way, I'm glad I ignored it way back then, because now it is still revealing itself to me. And who knows, I might finally warm up to Sound Chaser. Who knows?

[luckeydoug1]

The 1974 release of 'Relayer' represented a milestone in music. ...

So, what do think of that?

What an excellent post. You wrote from your heart and your convictions are very apparent. I still don't particularly care for this album, preferring Tales From Topographic Oceans by a huge margin, and consider it to be Yes' symphony. I do, however respect your opinion and take my hat off to you for writing such a moving post. And I fully support your supposition that it marked the culmination of an era.

[Timmo]

I'm with almost all of your post, except for the musings on "Awaken," which I think is perfection, and was the yin to the yang of "Gates."

I think the band reached its apogee with "Relayer."

[relayeire]

Relayer may have been the band's high point, after which all things were inferior... it could easily be said GFTO was that, though... there is plenty of great music after Relayer, just not as great...

Wakey left because he didn't dig TFTO and Relayer was even farther away from his sensibilities... it made sense for him to leave, but just for a time, while the band indulged itself further...

[CybrKhatru]

Relayer also may have been the furthest that Yes could go in that particular direction. I've often said that it doesn't resemble much that came before it, and it obviously doesn't resemble anything that came after it! :D

[Ian Burdon]

I love Relayer and on Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday it is my favourite Yes album (Monday, Wednesday and Friday it's Tales and Saturdays are Close to the Edge). But for all that it is my favourite I have to be in the right mood for it: there is nothing about it at all which is "background" music - it demands to be listened to.

I know that there are lots of different views on this site and I'm not looking for trouble (!) but IMHO Yes have never beaten the creative roll that took them from Fragile to Relayer and who knows what could have followed Relayer had they not pulled back from that path.

Relayer is the last of their truly great albums; simple as that.

[CybrKhatru]

I know that there are lots of different views on this site and I'm not looking for trouble (!) but IMHO Yes have never beaten the creative roll that took them from Fragile to Relayer and who knows what could have followed Relayer had they not pulled back from that path.

I have to agree with you, CS. IMO Going for the One is an amazing piece of work, but the solo albums kind of broke the "streak" from the beginning to Relayer. I bet at the time lots of people were hoping that GFTO would be the beginning of another streak....

[relayerjim]

I loved your post and I love the Relayer album..
..and what a tour that was

[Sheerah]

'Relayer' has a balance no other Yes album has

I never thought about it, but yes, you are absolutely correct. And I consider it a masterpiece as well. The album is just brilliant in its structure and composition.

[ANTIOCH]

The Relayer tour saw YES as musically 'far-out' as they would get and the stage show (with the Crab Nebula Dean set) was as spectacular as they would venture. I remember besides all the stage props, the backlighting looked like fire, like clouds passing; absolutely spectacular.
With the Going for the One tour, YES wisely cut back on the stage set and incorporated a brand new look. With the change in the direction musically; I recall thinking they'd done it again.
As with Close to the Edge, Relayer put YES in a realm of their own.
And Going for the One brought back the many fans Tales & Relayer seemed to confuse. What a wonderful period that time was ! :-)

[Timmo]

Relayer also may have been the furthest that Yes could go in that particular direction. I've often said that it doesn't resemble much that came before it, and it obviously doesn't resemble anything that came after it! :DLOL.

I actually had a line in my post about it being a "musical dead end," but I deleted it!

[Andrea YouAndI]

I was apprehensive before getting Relayer (having only heard Soon previously) but I fell in love with it on first listen. It definitely continues the persuit of perfection that occurred on TYA, Fragile, and CTTE, with every track being among my favorite Yessongs.

GoD? Epic, love the battle sequence.
Sound Chaser? Crazy fun, and I love Steve's solos throughout.
TBO? Beauty from start to finish.
















But the best thing? Relayer made up for the excesses and way overdone nature of Tales... :sneaky:

[CybrKhatru]

LOL.

I actually had a line in my post about it being a "musical dead end," but I deleted it!

LOL...that's cruel!! :D

[True Believer]

But the best thing? Relayer made up for the excesses and way overdone nature of Tales... :sneaky:
Ahem! You've got some explaining to do there, young lady!

;)

[gathernear]

LOL.

I actually had a line in my post about it being a "musical dead end," but I deleted it!

LOL, you know I would agree!:headset:

[Andrea YouAndI]

Ahem! You've got some explaining to do there, young lady!

;)

Heh, I just knew I'd get some wrath for that one, I just didn't think it would be that soon! :lmao:

Basically, I like 100% of TYA, Fragile, CTTE, and Relayer. With Tales, I'll listen to the whole thing, but I only get excited about the second half (The Ancient and Ritual). I want an album that's going to keep my interest throughout!

[gathernear]

Heh, I just knew I'd get some wrath for that one, I just didn't think it would be that soon! :lmao:

Basically, I like 100% of TYA, Fragile, CTTE, and Relayer. With Tales, I'll listen to the whole thing, but I only get excited about the second half (The Ancient and Ritual). I want an album that's going to keep my interest throughout!

Hey, I saw your little sentence at the end too, but I let it go. I already tried a Tales testimony with you before, but I won't push. You gotta get those headphones out, girl!

[islandsofarabia]

I want an album that's going to keep my interest throughout!

There's always Hannah Montana...


just kiddin andrea!

[Andrea YouAndI]

There's always Hannah Montana...


just kiddin andrea!

:slap:

(You gotta admit, you deserved that... :winknudge)






Right then! Back to Relayer, the thing we can all agree on!

:angel:

[relayeire]

I do think CTTE has a great balance, and they deliberately set out to mirror that in a way with Relayer... only this time the mirror was much darker, dirtier, and more experimental... and I love it! even the cover was darker (or more bleak) than Dean's previous Yes albums, with a lack of color, yet a very striking image...

[scootwhoman]

Something which I didn't go into depth on in my original post was the effect of the band being secluded, out in the country, without distractions. "Tales From Topographic Oceans" was written on the road, according to the liner notes, in a series of sessions that spanned several months. For a band to go on 'retreat' with a studio available was a rare, possibly a unique, thing. There were no constraints on the band to 'get out of the studio', they could focus on an element of one song for days, talking about it, experimenting with the sound, and then sleeping on it, without having to go off and play something else before returning to it.

Aside from side three of 'Tales', "Sound Chaser" is probably the most inaccessible Yes song there is. But it is also the hardest rock they have ever performed, which is amazing, considering the accuracy of Howe's guitar work. What the song is about is anybodies guess, but my take is that it represents the frantic, headlong rush of modern life. Think bumper to bumper traffic going 70 miles per hour, where you are watching for brake lights 10 cars ahead of you.

In my opinion, no other Yes album has such intensity of emotion as 'Relayer'. Certainly, there are moments on many of their albums which equal 'Relayer', but no single album maintains that intensity throughout.

More than any other Yes album, I think, 'Relayer' needs to be listened to all the way through, in a single sitting, to be truly appreciated. I feel the same way about 'Tales', but not as strongly. "Sound Chaser" listened to by itself is bewildering, but in the context of the album, it seems more relevant. It certainly sets up "To Be Over" as a relaxation from a previous high level of energy. The band created a similar effect on "Ritual" from 'Tales', with the conflict subsiding into the beautiful "Nous sommes du soleil" portion.

Without darkness, can we appreciate light?

[Timmo]

LOL...that's cruel!! :DI actually didn't mean it as a negative, but, as you said, that it was like nothing before or after and they couldn't really take it any further.

I feel the same way about The Lamb. There was really nowhere for Genesis to go after that in the same vein, which is part of the reason, I think, why PG left.

[RickyG]

Excellent post (#1) Scootwhoman... even if I don't totally agree with your views.

I am one of those that feel Topographic is the ultimate YES symphony. Though I can definitely agree to see Relayer as a second one. In my opinion it's Sound Chaser that is the flaw in the perfection of Relayer.... the "movement" that doesn't really work so well. To my ear Topographic holds together better as one complete work (and of course it is twice as long which makes holding it together a much greater challenge.)
Having said that, I believe Close To The Edge "holds together better" than either of the aforementioned works, and is also the most balanced, while not going to the extremes that Relayer did.

The point where I disagree most however is regarding Awaken. It is no "mere shadow" to my ears. I hear it fully and deeply as a masterwork entirely on the level of the other six. It is the 7th Key, the culmination of the Edge-Tales-Relayer extended works, the completion of a cycle.

But I think your post is an excellent one none the less. Thank you.

PS - Regarding keyboardist "ego"... it should be noted that Moraz, having walked in on a band that knew what it wanted from the keyboards (as you said), has said that he felt restricted at times, not able to fully express himself as he would have liked too. So it's not really fair to compare to Rick's contributions, as he was often given more room in the music.

[RickyG]

Something which I didn't go into depth on in my original post was the effect of the band being secluded, out in the country, without distractions. "Tales From Topographic Oceans" was written on the road, according to the liner notes, in a series of sessions that spanned several months. For a band to go on 'retreat' with a studio available was a rare, possibly a unique, thing.

Well actually they did this first, going to a country retreat, for the creation of The Yes Album, didn't they?

Relayer was done in the room behind Chris' garage.

[BrianD]

Very good post. I don't agree with all of it. Relayer, I am still conflicted about this album. Back when it first came out, I didn't give it a chance. I hated it and that was that. I was angry at Rick for quitting, and I was angry at Yes for continuing without him. ?

You know Larry I felt much the same way though maybe not quite as strongly as you. I missed Rick's involvement with Yes and I found much of Relayer disappointing.

However I have always felt this album is the best one for lyrics - I just don't think the music quite matches up to it. I like it more now than back in the 70s but I think the albums surrounding it are better musically.

[allpurechance]

Yes' dark side. Particularly Gates. Through the years, I've wished they displayed this side of themelves more often.

Because the contrast becomes so much greater. Some of their greatest genius shines through in the contrast that exists between the instrumental buildup, the so - called battle sequence, on into Soon.

If you are not emotionally affected by that, you have passed beyond the capability to express human feelings.

Sound Chaser is funk, disguised as various metered prog.

To Be Over is one of the most durable and enduring pieces of music the band has ever composed.

As Scootwhoman correctly states, those final notes, that last flourish is the end of an album long statement.

As others have said, Scootwhoman, there are factual errors in your fine initial post. There are no such errors in your analysis.

Yesmusic at it's best is time defying music. To so many of us who love this music, one of the chief reasons is this defiance of the nefarious passage of time.

In some strange way, the music we've always loved we only love more with time.

Relayer is a prime example of this. It just gets better ... every ... single ... time ... we listen.

[Albedo]

Yesmusic at it's best is time defying music. To so many of us who love this music, one of the chief reasons is this defiance of the nefarious passage of time.

In some strange way, the music we've always loved we only love more with time.

Relayer is a prime example of this. It just gets better ... every ... single ... time ... we listen.
I think you are right on here. I always found Relayer to be a harsh listen, something about the production maybe, but over time I have come to like it more and more. And lyrically it's brilliant.

I always thought Sound Chaser was about playing music for an audience. "... as is my want, I only reach to look in your eyes..."

[tommc]

Yes' dark side. Particularly Gates. Through the years, I've wished they displayed this side of themelves more often.

Because the contrast becomes so much greater. Some of their greatest genius shines through in the contrast that exists between the instrumental buildup, the so - called battle sequence, on into Soon.

If you are not emotionally affected by that, you have passed beyond the capability to express human feelings.

Sound Chaser is funk, disguised as various metered prog.

To Be Over is one of the most durable and enduring pieces of music the band has ever composed.

As Scootwhoman correctly states, those final notes, that last flourish is the end of an album long statement.

As others have said, Scootwhoman, there are factual errors in your fine initial post. There are no such errors in your analysis.

Yesmusic at it's best is time defying music. To so many of us who love this music, one of the chief reasons is this defiance of the nefarious passage of time.

In some strange way, the music we've always loved we only love more with time.

Relayer is a prime example of this. It just gets better ... every ... single ... time ... we listen.

To Be Over to me gets better with every listen. It went from my 3rd fav from this album to my favorite YES song of all.

[relayeire]

Aside from side three of 'Tales', "Sound Chaser" is probably the most inaccessible Yes song there is. But it is also the hardest rock they have ever performed, which is amazing, considering the accuracy of Howe's guitar work. What the song is about is anybodies guess, but my take is that it represents the frantic, headlong rush of modern life. Think bumper to bumper traffic going 70 miles per hour, where you are watching for brake lights 10 cars ahead of you.



which is exactly why I don't think Yes will or can play it in '08... it's a fast song with a lot of sudden tempo transitions... look at the way they've slowed down CTTE and SK, among others, in recent years, and some of the trouble they've had with the transitions in HOTS... SC is meant to be fast and frenetic... any other way, it's not the same song...

[relayeire]

Aside from side three of 'Tales', "Sound Chaser" is probably the most inaccessible Yes song there is. But it is also the hardest rock they have ever performed, which is amazing, considering the accuracy of Howe's guitar work. What the song is about is anybodies guess, but my take is that it represents the frantic, headlong rush of modern life. Think bumper to bumper traffic going 70 miles per hour, where you are watching for brake lights 10 cars ahead of you.



which is exactly why I don't think Yes will or can play it in '08... it's a fast song with a lot of sudden tempo transitions... look at the way they've slowed down CTTE and SK, among others, in recent years, and some of the trouble they've had with the transitions in HOTS... SC is meant to be fast and frenetic... any other way, it's not the same song...

[Andrea YouAndI]

Aside from side three of 'Tales', "Sound Chaser" is probably the most inaccessible Yes song there is. But it is also the hardest rock they have ever performed, which is amazing, considering the accuracy of Howe's guitar work. What the song is about is anybodies guess, but my take is that it represents the frantic, headlong rush of modern life. Think bumper to bumper traffic going 70 miles per hour, where you are watching for brake lights 10 cars ahead of you.

:clap: :appl[1]: :clap:

Like Albedo said, I always thought the song was about being the rockstar(s) playing for the audience. "Faster moment spent spread tales of change within the sound/Counting form through rhythm electric freedom...." But I like the "frantic rush of modern life" assessment as well. At any rate it's a great song to play on the highway - I've done it. :winknudge

[PhillYes]

I have to agree with the proposition that Relayer signaled something of the end of an era for both the band, and perhaps ‘big prog’ in general. But it’s also an amazing document of a group of driven, immensely talented musicians running at full steam with something to prove to themselves and their fans. I have often toyed with the idea that Relayer, at some levels, is a musical answer to the pans and criticism that Yes got for Topographic Oceans. I don’t know how much sense this will make to anyone, but seeing as how a few others have expounded at length on this album, perhaps one more won’t hurt too much.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Topographic Oceans got slammed by the apostate critics and unconvinced fans as much for its sprawling length and convoluted musical tapestry as much as for its theological and spiritual underpinnings. I’ve always felt as if the band set out to prove with Relayer, to themselves and their critics, that even in the long form they were more than capable of composing engaging, complex pieces with taut thematic and musical structure which nevertheless supported the high concept of Yes as an idea which was, somehow, more than the sum of its parts.
<o:p></o:p>
The album kicks of with a long piece, almost challenging the critics: “There they go again.” But this time the approach is a little different. The strong and explicit narrative drive, almost unique in the Yes canon, of “The Gates of Delirium”—conflict, battle, victory and resolution—serves as a unifying motif which ties the musical concepts of the piece firmly to a more earthly realm of concerns than the ethereal spiritual questing of Topographic. That narrative drive also serves to push the piece along musically as each idea, once explicated and explored, leads logically into the next, without the musical recursions and inversions that so challenged and bedeviled the critics of Topographic. I think they chose a decidedly non-spiritual activity—warfare—as a way to demonstrate their skill and mastery of the long form as a valid musical approach to any human activity, and to prove to any doubters that their music wasn’t just hallucinatory navel-gazing.
<o:p></o:p>
The next two pieces, “Sound Chaser” and “To Be Over” are a continuation of the refutation of the critics, and are actually tied together in such a way that they comment on “Delirium”, and the idea of the band itself. For if “Delirium” is an exploration of an outer, more earthly experience then the next two tracks serve to return the band to a contemplation of more familiar inner perceptions and musical ideals.
<o:p></o:p>
I’m a little surprised at the ever-so-slight negative reactions to “Sound Chaser.” Some seem to feel it a weak spot on an otherwise great disc. But this driving track, all jagged edges and yawning spaces, is an exultant and thrilling musical adventure that seems to be set in direct opposition to the more tightly controlled “Delirium” which precedes it in the running order. Jon has said something to the effect that the song was a reaction to the addition of Patrick Moraz and his wider and more adventurous sound palette to the Yes mix, although I have also read that the song was fully fleshed out before Pat joined the band. Either way, I think one can hear a band at the top its form, reinventing and reintegrating itself as a cohesive unit, pushing the musical envelope and challenging both themselves and their listeners. It’s a piece about the sheer sweaty, physical, and emotional joy of musical exploration and creation, of ‘chasing sound’.

And it serves as a necessary balance to the closing track, the carefully studied, stately, baroque fugue of “To Be Over.” If “Sound Chaser” is about raw creative energies, then “To Be Over” is about taming and harnessing those wild energies in the service of something higher. The final track returns the band, at long last, to the form and musical territory which they last explored on Topographic. Here, again, are all of the layered themes and musical recursions, the complexity and the spirituality, which were so pointedly avoided elsewhere on the album and which intentionally echo the spiritual themes and musical tapestry of Topographic, but this time with a tight, focused and perhaps more precise approach and less ‘sprawl’.
<o:p></o:p>
When I listen to Relayer, I hear three pieces which are inextricably woven together into a jubilant and resounding rejection of the criticisms of “Topographic”—and the band in general. Yes set out to show that with a high level of musical skill, challenging and complex music and themes are an appropriate milieu for rock musicians and listeners to explore and enjoy: it doesn’t all have to be ‘pop music’.
<o:p></o:p>
And before anyone says it for me, let me say again that this is just an interpretation that I’ve toyed with. And don’t say I didn’t warn you about the dull and pedantic bits.

:D
Phill<o:p></o:p>

[packattack4]

Excellent post Phil, well written and very truthful. Relayer was and is my favorite Yes album although i luv em all but Relayer just lifts me over the top. Sound Chaser is probably my favorite song I just luv Steves guitar work in it plus the first show I saw in 76 Howe blew me away on that song, He was immediately the best guitarist out there to join the best bassist. Just watching those 2 jam is worth the price of admission,
Anyway I just wanted to say thanx for you dialogue

[CybrKhatru]

Rick, that was beautifully stated. Great points you make!

[relayeire]

:clap: :appl[1]: :clap:

But I like the "frantic rush of modern life" assessment as well.

nah, that's Rush's "Camera Eye"

;-)

[relayeire]

I have to agree with the proposition that Relayer signaled something of the end of an era for both the band, and perhaps ‘big prog’ in general. But it’s also an amazing document of a group of driven, immensely talented musicians running at full steam with something to prove to themselves and their fans. I have often toyed with the idea that Relayer, at some levels, is a musical answer to the pans and criticism that Yes got for Topographic Oceans. I don’t know how much sense this will make to anyone, but seeing as how a few others have expounded at length on this album, perhaps one more won’t hurt too much.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Topographic Oceans got slammed by the apostate critics and unconvinced fans as much for its sprawling length and convoluted musical tapestry as much as for its theological and spiritual underpinnings. I’ve always felt as if the band set out to prove with Relayer, to themselves and their critics, that even in the long form they were more than capable of composing engaging, complex pieces with taut thematic and musical structure which nevertheless supported the high concept of Yes as an idea which was, somehow, more than the sum of its parts.
<o:p></o:p>
The album kicks of with a long piece, almost challenging the critics: “There they go again.” But this time the approach is a little different. The strong and explicit narrative drive, almost unique in the Yes canon, of “The Gates of Delirium”—conflict, battle, victory and resolution—serves as a unifying motif which ties the musical concepts of the piece firmly to a more earthly realm of concerns than the ethereal spiritual questing of Topographic. That narrative drive also serves to push the piece along musically as each idea, once explicated and explored, leads logically into the next, without the musical recursions and inversions that so challenged and bedeviled the critics of Topographic. I think they chose a decidedly non-spiritual activity—warfare—as a way to demonstrate their skill and mastery of the long form as a valid musical approach to any human activity, and to prove to any doubters that their music wasn’t just hallucinatory navel-gazing.
<o:p></o:p>
The next two pieces, “Sound Chaser” and “To Be Over” are a continuation of the refutation of the critics, and are actually tied together in such a way that they comment on “Delirium”, and the idea of the band itself. For if “Delirium” is an exploration of an outer, more earthly experience then the next two tracks serve to return the band to a contemplation of more familiar inner perceptions and musical ideals.
<o:p></o:p>
I’m a little surprised at the ever-so-slight negative reactions to “Sound Chaser.” Some seem to feel it a weak spot on an otherwise great disc. But this driving track, all jagged edges and yawning spaces, is an exultant and thrilling musical adventure that seems to be set in direct opposition to the more tightly controlled “Delirium” which precedes it in the running order. Jon has said something to the effect that the song was a reaction to the addition of Patrick Moraz and his wider and more adventurous sound palette to the Yes mix, although I have also read that the song was fully fleshed out before Pat joined the band. Either way, I think one can hear a band at the top its form, reinventing and reintegrating itself as a cohesive unit, pushing the musical envelope and challenging both themselves and their listeners. It’s a piece about the sheer sweaty, physical, and emotional joy of musical exploration and creation, of ‘chasing sound’.

And it serves as a necessary balance to the closing track, the carefully studied, stately, baroque fugue of “To Be Over.” If “Sound Chaser” is about raw creative energies, then “To Be Over” is about taming and harnessing those wild energies in the service of something higher. The final track returns the band, at long last, to the form and musical territory which they last explored on Topographic. Here, again, are all of the layered themes and musical recursions, the complexity and the spirituality, which were so pointedly avoided elsewhere on the album and which intentionally echo the spiritual themes and musical tapestry of Topographic, but this time with a tight, focused and perhaps more precise approach and less ‘sprawl’.
<o:p></o:p>
When I listen to Relayer, I hear three pieces which are inextricably woven together into a jubilant and resounding rejection of the criticisms of “Topographic”—and the band in general. Yes set out to show that with a high level of musical skill, challenging and complex music and themes are an appropriate milieu for rock musicians and listeners to explore and enjoy: it doesn’t all have to be ‘pop music’.
<o:p></o:p>
And before anyone says it for me, let me say again that this is just an interpretation that I’ve toyed with. And don’t say I didn’t warn you about the dull and pedantic bits.

:D
Phill<o:p></o:p>


indeed, this is Yes coming back down to earth... less spiritual at the outset (war), but by the end of the battle (Soon) some of that returns, but is maybe more palatable to some listeners, considering what came before... war, chaos, screams, etc.

Phill, if you write a Yes book I will buy it!

[RickyG]

And before anyone says it for me, let me say again that this is just an interpretation that I’ve toyed with. And don’t say I didn’t warn you about the dull and pedantic bits.
And an excellent interpretation it is!
Thank you for sharing your perceptions and interpretations.... very illuminating.
Hmm.... I completely missed the dull and pedantic bits, where were they?? ;)

I’m a little surprised at the ever-so-slight negative reactions to “Sound Chaser.” Some seem to feel it a weak spot on an otherwise great disc.
Since I am one of the "some", I will say that for me, my problem with it is that it has always been a slightly irritating piece to listen to. A bit of an assault on the senses that I am not always in the mood for. And that feeling has never gone away in over 30 years. And this is at least in part a result of Eddie's engineering as it is of what they are playing. However there is much that I love about the piece too. I love the lyrics, the insane, head bending tempo shifting, the melodies. I even love the cha-cha cha-cha's!!

Patrick: "We introduced each other, had some tea, and then they played what was to become "Sound Chaser" - just the middle part, because I would write the introduction later. I was totally overwhelmed, because they played so fast and so precisely and so well. .... I must say that I had to have a lot of guts to sit at the keyboards and try to play along."

Steve: "Sound Chaser is like this madman from hell.... an indescribable mixture of Patrick's jazzy keyboards and my weird sort of flamenco electric..."

Patrick: "I disagreed with Steve from day one on his choice of notes for the chords that he wanted me to play to underline his guitar solo, a very aggresive guitar solo."

[inside_out]

With all the excellent posts here I hate to even say anything, but I must. Close To The Edge will forever and always fulfill me as my single greatest yessong. That's a most difficult thing to say, but I must. CTTE is the single most important song of my life. The rest of the Album are like children to me.....

Relayer has Gates Of Delirium which takes me along (with and from CTTE) and forces me to deal with the reality of the lives of my fellow man. Gates takes me and rings my neck with it all and gives me back what I already have, but I'm worn and beaten because of it. The safety net of Love in Soon magnifies and intensifies the it all.

I'm reminded that love comes one by one. Not collectively, but individually and independently. Within that we are one but not until we are literally one. Then and only then came we be whole.

[Andrea YouAndI]

nah, that's Rush's "Camera Eye"

;-)

Sweet, awesome tune! :beerchugr:

PhillRick: thou must post more. Not dull at all. :D

[scootwhoman]

Well actually they did this first, going to a country retreat, for the creation of The Yes Album, didn't they?

Relayer was done in the room behind Chris' garage.

So Yes was 'almost' a garage band! Be that as it may, the idea of a band that could pack the biggest venues in the world not being able to get studio time from their label is astonishing.

Thank you for telling us all that, because there is little that I have seen in print regarding the creation of 'Relayer'. I hope that everyone who knows something about this album's genesis and realization can contribute, especially to correct me where I am wrong. I do find it difficult to believe that 'Relayer' was recorded in a single room, as splitting up bands into isolation booths was common by then, I thought.

[PhillYes]

I do find it difficult to believe that 'Relayer' was recorded in a single room, as splitting up bands into isolation booths was common by then, I thought.

Well, I'll defer to RickyG on the aspect of the recording contract. I don't recall that Atlantic had refused them a recording budget, but I could be wrong. As far as the recording studio is concerned, I can speak as an ex-recording engineer and say that any room capable of holding the guys and their equipment can be a good studio with the proper baffles. The more space, the better, but it is certainly possible to achieve a quality recording in a small space. In all likelihood, a guide track (perhaps the 'rehearsal' track on the remastered Relayer) was recorded, and then all of the individual parts were recorded one-by-one in reference to the rehearsal track. There would therefore be no 'bleed-over' into the other channels, and each player's part is clean. This is a common technique, even in full-scale studios.

Phill

[RickyG]

Well, I'll defer to RickyG on the aspect of the recording contract. I don't recall that Atlantic had refused them a recording budget, but I could be wrong. As far as the recording studio is concerned, I can speak as an ex-recording engineer and say that any room capable of holding the guys and their equipment can be a good studio with the proper baffles. The more space, the better, but it is certainly possible to achieve a quality recording in a small space. In all likelihood, a guide track (perhaps the 'rehearsal' track on the remastered Relayer) was recorded, and then all of the individual parts were recorded one-by-one in reference to the rehearsal track. There would therefore be no 'bleed-over' into the other channels, and each player's part is clean. This is a common technique, even in full-scale studios.

Phill

All I know about it is from Dan Hedge's book, page 99, under the photo of Alan:
"Alan White in Squire's behind-the-garage studio, September 1974."

And on page 103:
"...Yes began recording down at Chris Squire's as-yet-unfinished studio, using Eddie Offord's new recording desk."

And also in YesStories Steve says on page 50:
"We recorded Relayer in Chris's garage, which had been converted into a studio. It was almost like Yes had said, 'Okay, we've made this album at this studio, this album at this studio, and now we're going to go to one of the band's studios'. " (So it appears they were a garage band!)

I've never heard or read anything about Atlantic not giving them a recording budget. Surely they must have had a contract with Atlantic in good standing at that point. Whether or not there were limits or issues with the recording budget, who knows? Well, I don't know anyway.
It's certainly possible, even likely that Atlantic didn't want them running up another Tales bill, but I am purely speculating.

Steve's quote makes it sound like it was their choice.
(And it would have ultimately saved Yes money, or in effect made them money, because labels pretty much always recoupe the recording advances off the top of album sales.)

I think Phill is entirely correct on how they could have recorded in such an environment. In fact I know I've read somewhere one of them saying that the process Phill described is how they usually recorded.

[scootwhoman]

Perhaps I am imagining things, because I certainly don't know where I got the idea that Atlantic was not going to pay for weeks and weeks of studio time for 'Relayer'. I have the impression that most albums in that era were recorded in less than a month, because the bands brought in material that was pretty much ready to record.

I am pretty sure that the major labels at that time considered radio airplay to be essential to an album's success, and five minutes was about as long as top-40 radio would usually give a song. The song that hooked me on Yes was "And You And I", but it was not the album version. An edited version, about 4 1/2 minutes long, was released for radio play, and a 45, with a version about 6 minutes, cut in half, was released in conjunction with the album.

I remember hearing "Wondrous Stories" on KLOS in 1977, and thinking that it didn't sound like the other music in the rotation at that time. 'Relayer' had nothing that could be effectively edited down, except "Soon", which loses a great deal of impact when it is de-coupled from the rest of "Gates Of Delirium," and which does not sound at all like top-40 rock anyway.

I grew up listening to classical music, by choice, because it was long enough to develop a musical concept, theme, melody, or crescendo, and I loved Yes for creating modern music which was classical in form. Pop music was catchy tunes that quickly grew repetitive, with a standard structure of lyrics, chorus, lyrics, chorus, chorus. I wanted stuff that I could listen to over and over again, like I did with classical music. Fortunately, Yes has been able to continue making music that will bear repeated plays, which is fundamental to the nature of the band, I think.

[cjreyes]

I agree with everything you said scootwhoman. In fact, you kind of crystallized it for me, thanks! Especially the part about the keyboards blending with the music more effectively. I liked Andrea's take on how it made up for Tales excesses. :D And lastly, sorry, I think Soon is the weakest part of the album.

[BrianD]

Perhaps I am imagining things, because I certainly don't know where I got the idea that Atlantic was not going to pay for weeks and weeks of studio time for 'Relayer'. I have the impression that most albums in that era were recorded in less than a month, because the bands brought in material that was pretty much ready to record.

I am pretty sure that the major labels at that time considered radio airplay to be essential to an album's success, and five minutes was about as long as top-40 radio would usually give a song. The song that hooked me on Yes was "And You And I", but it was not the album version. An edited version, about 4 1/2 minutes long, was released for radio play, and a 45, with a version about 6 minutes, cut in half, was released in conjunction with the album.

I remember hearing "Wondrous Stories" on KLOS in 1977, and thinking that it didn't sound like the other music in the rotation at that time. 'Relayer' had nothing that could be effectively edited down, except "Soon", which loses a great deal of impact when it is de-coupled from the rest of "Gates Of Delirium," and which does not sound at all like top-40 rock anyway.

I grew up listening to classical music, by choice, because it was long enough to develop a musical concept, theme, melody, or crescendo, and I loved Yes for creating modern music which was classical in form. Pop music was catchy tunes that quickly grew repetitive, with a standard structure of lyrics, chorus, lyrics, chorus, chorus. I wanted stuff that I could listen to over and over again, like I did with classical music. Fortunately, Yes has been able to continue making music that will bear repeated plays, which is fundamental to the nature of the band, I think.

I think that you have done a great job in creating this interesting discussion about Relayer.

One aspect that I don't think has come through clearly is that the album had basically been rehearsed and largely recorded before Moraz joined the group. Indeed the early stages of writing the album were well ahead before Wakeman left - it was the style of musical direction that he could see Yes heading in that convinced him to leave.

According to Moraz in Chris Welch's book, Yes had been rehearsing a couple of months when he arrived in the studio - he added his contribution to Sound Chaser on his first day in the studio.

Relayer is really an album in which the keyboards are an afterthought.

[RickyG]

I agree with everything you said scootwhoman. In fact, you kind of crystallized it for me, thanks! Especially the part about the keyboards blending with the music more effectively. I liked Andrea's take on how it made up for Tales excesses. :D And lastly, sorry, I think Soon is the weakest part of the album.

What?? Are you numb??!! :evil2:
"Soon" is possibly the most emotionally potent, achingly beautiful musical passage of YES's career to my ears.
You better be sorry about that remark..... :winknudge ;)

And regarding Patrick's "blending", and comparing to Rick's "ego".... as has been pointed out by more than one of us, Moraz was significantly restricted in what he could contribute.

Compare to the entire "Close To The Edge" album. I don't see how anyone could say that the keyboards are any less effectively blended on that album?

From the Hedge's book:
The band had put down so much material as a four-piece that Moraz was often only asked to fill in the blank spots. While he wasn't , a rumour had it, told exactly what to play straight down the line, Steve Howe admits that Moraz was, by necessity, 'directed' a bit more than if he'd been there from the beginning.

[relayeire]

What?? Are you numb??!! :evil2:

And regarding Patrick's "blending", and comparing to Rick's "ego".... as has been pointed out by more than one of us, Moraz was significantly restricted in what he could contribute.



this said, I actually find Wakey quite minimalist at times on his first few Yes albums... look at Roundabout and AYAI for example... there are long stretches when we don't hear much of him... he was back with a vengeance on Tormato, however... no one can be accused of underplaying on that album...

[scootwhoman]

And lastly, sorry, I think Soon is the weakest part of the album.

I was really surprised when I read that "Soon" had been released as a single, as I believe that it does not stand up well by itself. But as the end of "Gates Of Delirium", it is magnificent, I feel. Several of my friends have gotten hooked on 'Relayer' because of the emotions that "Soon" inspires as "Gates" is ending. Context is everything, in this case, in my opinion.

[scootwhoman]

From the Hedge's book:
The band had put down so much material as a four-piece that Moraz was often only asked to fill in the blank spots. While he wasn't , a rumour had it, told exactly what to play straight down the line, Steve Howe admits that Moraz was, by necessity, 'directed' a bit more than if he'd been there from the beginning.

I have long had the impression that 'Relayer' was written around Steve Howe's guitar work. Yet, it is not a whole bunch of guitar solos, but orchestration of all of the elements into a rich, varied sound, just as the majority of symphonies are written primarily for the strings. It is this quality of 'Relayer' which I find so outstanding, and appealing. Even when Howe is playing solo, other members contribute. I absolutely love the part of "Sound Chaser" where Chris starts a progression, which Steve meets, and then carries on. And it is not just a lot of flashy riffs, but very emotional, delicate, almost, playing.

As far as a new band member being 'directed' in their playing, I consider that to be reasonable, considering that the band had been striving for years to develop a consistent, carefully constructed sound. Keyboards have more potential to dominate a group than any other instrument, I think, because of the totally electronic nature of synthesizers. A synth can be programmed to keep playing the same stuff over and over again, allowing the keyboardist to focus on a second, third, fourth,... instrument. And keyboards will not feed back, no matter how loud they are.

[scootwhoman]

this said, I actually find Wakey quite minimalist at times on his first few Yes albums... look at Roundabout and AYAI for example... there are long stretches when we don't hear much of him... he was back with a vengeance on Tormato, however... no one can be accused of underplaying on that album...

This is just my impression, but I believe that the first breakup of Yes and Rick Wakeman was because the rest of the group was afraid of becoming a backup band to this egotist. I was somewhat outraged when Wakeman released a 'solo' album which had a 5 piece band, an orchestra, and a choir. Of course, Moraz did basically the same thing with 'I', as the list of artists on it is quite long.

Please don't get the impression that I don't like Rick Wakeman, I enjoy a lot of his music. But I feel that he often acted like he was playing a concerto, not a symphony. He seemed unwilling to submerge himself into the group, which was key to producing the tapestries which I love Yes so much for.

[Earl Grey]

Hi ScootWhoMan...

First-off, this is a really cool thread.

You write beautifully, and make a fine case.

Relayer is one of my top 3 favorite YES albums, you don't get much argument from me here.

Do I think Wakeman is GOD? Sure! Wakeman is GOD.

SO is Patrick Moraz.

If you talk with a Pantheist, you'll hear such banter...

:ele:

It's weird for me to think of RELAYER as an album that YES had to push through the cracks of beaurocracy, ...but your assessment sounds about right.

Look at the industry now: Fetal Positioned in the wake of illegal downloads and indi releases. Shameful. What a bunch of suited wankers. So much for A&R. A thing of the past.

'Relayer' was YES proving again, that they were greater than their sum.

Losing Wakey had to have been a kick in the arse, especially on the heels of losing Bruford. But in both instances, the band bootstrapped themselves, found new players with something distinct to say, and expounded upon what was already perfection, and such is the Art of YES.

Patrick Moraz is the finest of keyboardists, the sweetest of souls. He suited RELAYER perfectly, the album was made for him.

This isn't to say that Rick's reappearance on GFTO wasn't the best thing. I'm an old 'Trooper', so I'm all Wakey anyway... But Moraz... What a Sage.

RELAYER? It was Moraz's baby, and Steve Howe's showcase. And Squire ripping through Soundchaser (YES playing as though they were Return To Forever, but with melody and lyrics of note).

One couldn't ask for a finer representation of what YES does best than RELAYER.

I'm not going to swing statues in the museum. Fragile. CTTE. TALES. RELAYER.

THey are all indispensible art.

I have a soft spot in my heart for RELAYER. It's in my top three.

Great thread, Kudos ScootWho!

Carry On...

Earl:yesbird:

[scootwhoman]

Thank you, Earl Grey!

I have often wished/hoped/dreamed of Yes being a rock orchestra, with two keyboardists, (Wakeman and Moraz,) two guitarists, (Howe and Rabin) two vocalists, (Anderson and Rabin), two drummers, (White and Bruford) and one bassist, Chris Squire. Wakeman and Moraz seem to have complimenting strengths, at least, that is the impression I have gotten from listening to their solo albums, while Rabin is the only vocalist who can really duplicate Anderson's vocal sound accurately.

I have come to think that Yes was built around Squire, Anderson, and Howe, because it was the addition of Howe on 'The Yes Album' which really created the distinctive sound of the band.

'Relayer' is a technically demanding work for a drummer, and Alan White did a wonderful job with it. But I believe that there are other drummers who could have performed the music as well. I know that a friend of mine who is a drummer was quite impressed with "Sound Chaser", saying that it was built on a 32 beat measure, or something like that.

(I heard a joke about drummers once. They like to hang out with musicians.)

I got to see something close to my 'rock orchestra' ideal when I saw the Union tour. 8 artists on stage at once was pretty special. Unfortunately, they only played a couple of songs in that configuration. (They were in the round, facing out, and seemed to have a few problems with co-ordination, so tackling a complex work like "Ritual" might have been ill-advised.)

[QuietInside]

I was just listening to Gates with good headphones late at night, dead silence all around.....and yes, there are times when I think this is as good as it gets with Yes.....

....course tomorrow I might prefer CTTE or GFTO or TFTO.

So glad I don't have to choose between them....I don't go anywhere without my ipod full of Yes music.

[Ceasar's Palace]

Nice thread. I haven't read everything, I must admit...

Maybe Relayer was a dead end, but I think it was also their last
truly progressive album, showing a band still in development.
Going For The One was a standstill, or maybe even a concious attempt
to go back to the diversity of Fragile, clearly stepping away from the
epics, with Awaken as the exception. Which doesn't mean GFTO was
in any way inferior to Relayer, there's just no motion forward, it's sideways at best...

By the way, on Steve's Homebrew 2 there is a "song" called The Serpentine, which shows the early stages of To Be Over. It's almost a Yes outtake, definitely worth a listen.

:headset:

[Sharp on Attack]

What happened after Relayer ? Solo albums. THIS marked the end of an era. When band members start a solo career.

[Yescelt]

Yes - there are nice tracks on Homebrew 2 - Steve was clearly showing us the origins of some Yes-pieces on that album.
The Spiral is obviously From the Balcony in an earlier form, Sleepless in the City is Sign Language - and there are more examples.

Regards, Brian



By the way, on Steve's Homebrew 2 there is a "song" called The Serpentine, which shows the early stages of To Be Over. It's almost a Yes outtake, definitely worth a listen.

:headset:

[YYY]

Yes is was a major culmination of a monummental era. Everytime I listen to RELAYER I often get downright FURIOUS!!!!!!!! to think that YES hassn't recieved a special Nobel Price for insanely brilliant artistry in music. I just listened to the version on YESshow and was again completely intensely devastated by the genius of this band. They simply wipe the floor with the greatest in the genre. And that's saying alot. Wow what a group, they were.

[90125yes]

Yes suffered with the sound created by Patrick Moraz on relayer

it all got too metallic and shrill and frantic

Soon was like sweet oitment on a boil after the battle in gates

before you start crtisicsm i do like the album and the tracks but i would have preferred Rick Wakeman on keyboards

but i do remember that the tour was a succesfull one

[oliasofsuffolk]

[quote=scootwhoman;1365835]Something which I didn't go into depth on in my original post was the effect of the band being secluded, out in the country, without distractions.quote]


I might be wrong but weren't they secluded in the country for TYA? A very different album. I loved reading your post though. I think you are hereby nominated as 'Yesfans' advocate for Relayer!

You won't get many arguments from me. I have always loved Relayer. I have never had a problem with Soundchaser but then again I like a lot of Jazz-Rock (Weather Report for example). I agree that To Be Over forms a wonderful contrast.

Relayer is right up there. I agree with Earl, probably top three.

I think you are less sound on seeing it as a single work. I can quite happily listen to Soundchaser on its own. As it was done on tour in 1976 right after Siberian Khatru. Talking of which I think it is hard to argue that Relayer is 'more advanced' than CTTE. Those two albums are like two sides of a coin, one side of which has a classical side and the other has a jazz side.

I don't really think it's about Rick and his ego. He is more than entitled to be confident. I think it is simply that he brings a classical approach to Yes whereas Patrick brought more of a jazz approach. Not in terms of free improvisations but in terms of musical flavour. I don't think the keyboards 'blend' any better on Relayer than on CTTE.

Personally much as I love Relayer I think they were wise to get Rick back and get out of that area into the sunny uplands of GFTO.

[YYY]

Personally much as I love Relayer I think they were wise to get Rick back and get out of that area into the sunny uplands of GFTO.

I really can't say what the future would have brought if Moraz had stayed. I thought RELAYER blew the roof off of prog music. Plus being a huge fan of Fusion at the time, Moraz turnedout to be the perfect ingredient for mid-70's YES, IMHO. I'd hoped they'd inject more Jazz and funk into their sound. So I was very pleased

Can't deny I felt OK with Rick coming back originally but I was a bit disappointed initially with GFTO. Of course there was never any doubts about AWAKEN but I was very into the epic period that erupted with CTTE. So going back to shorter songs was a slight letdown. Where GTFO is quite a fine album I was hoping YES would ignore any obligations to achieve commercial success by this time. I wanted them to do the unthinkable again as they had done with the audacious (flawless) TALES. I was wishing for something completely unexpected, bold, radical and brilliant. So when they went back to an earlier format I was mildly disappointed probably because on a scale of 1-10 I still like The YES Album and FRAGILE better than GFTO and TORMATO overall. There's something very fresh and classy about those pre-CTTE tunes.

And RELAYER was such a slam dunk, balls out, edgy piece of work. It was like they were trying to prove something to those skeptics of TALES. "Hey so you want hardcore Prog, here you go, take THIS!. Two of the hardest songs and two of the prettiest songs we've ever written."

It felt like they were making a 'statement' and I loved it!

[rojon]

sad thing about relayer was the poor sound quality, very tin-ey compared to say, the yes album or fragile which had warmer sound quality. Even the "edited together as developed" remastered and expanded "working" version of Gates has better sound quality. Too bad the vocals weren't finalized.

---
apiece apart chased flowers of the dark

[mike on the goldie]

Like some of the others here I rejected Relayer when it came out in 1974. Despite being a raving Yes fan I couldn't get into it at the time, it just sounded too different to me.

It took only one re-listen early last year for me to realize that Gates is Yes's greatest musical achievement. And the other two songs are fantastic too.

[90125yes]

It took only one re-listen early last year for me to realize that Gates is Yes's greatest musical achievement. And the other two songs are fantastic too.

soory disagree

gates is not yes's greatest musical achievement

too shrill and frantic and moraz's crazy keyboards

[oliasofsuffolk]

I really can't say what the future would have brought if Moraz had stayed. I thought RELAYER blew the roof off of prog music. Plus being a huge fan of Fusion at the time, Moraz turnedout to be the perfect ingredient for mid-70's YES, IMHO. I'd hoped they'd inject more Jazz and funk into their sound.





There's no doubt YYY that Moraz staying would have been interesting but for me GFTO makes my top three and I don't agree that is isn't quite as good as TYA or Fragile. I know many would disagree. CTTE, Relayer, GFTO are my top three with Fragile, TFTO and TYA a photofinish behind. It's all subjective.

I think though that while Yes brought a unique quality to their experiments with jazz rock, as you would expect when Jon Anderson is put into the mix, I feel overall that there are many excellent Jazz fusion outfits but only Yes could have made GFTO and I really wouldn't be without it.

[TOBYSGRAPHICGOKART]

My views on Relayer have been well documented on several other threads and I will just echo all the positive sentiments expressed here.
I,too,often wonder what might have happened had PM stayed a bit longer,but then I just think of the total perfection that is Relayer and I honestly don't beleive they could ever have topped it.
It is the pinnacle of their career and although GFTO had it's magical moments-Awaken of course being the predominant one-for me,that really was the end of an era for Yes as the fantastic creative force that produced that amazing quartet (CTTE and Tales being the other two) of extraordinary,breathtaking albums,unlikely to be equalled by any other group ever.
My views on Drama,the Rabin years and beyond,again can be found elsewhere and I don't intend to debate them here. However,it is quite clear to me at least that nothing they produced during that time can be even remotely compared to that wonderful period around the mid-seventies that was indeed the culmination of a truly great era.