time for re-evaluation?

[M-Class Planet]

I've had this since it came out and have to admit to not liking it a bit back then but for some reason - probably cos if fed up waiting for the bozos to get their collective asses in gear and come up with some new material - I started giving it a second chance, and have to admit to starting to get into it.

I know. in terms of Yes albums, even the guys playing on it aren't to happy with it (SH & JA), and I know it started as a Squire and Sherwood project, but i think that is what really is starting to appeal to me about it.

The bass work is excellant and the harmonies and call and responce vocals, which are very much a Squire trademark, all contribute to making this one a lost gem for me.

In fact, I dare say it's when Jon Anderson starts getting more influence on it it's then it starts loosing its appeal for me, though can't be certain.

Squier is the most underrated writer in the group for sure.

If only Bruford had been on it...

and Wakeman....


or keith Emerson...



or me!!!!!

:O)

[Yes.2]

if only....

[CybrKhatru]

After hearing and seeing Circa: play, I'm beginning to think that it's Sherwood who's truly the underrated one in the organization. I had a whole new appreciation for much of this album after getting turned on to Circa:. If it required me from getting free from some of my biases (and it did), then so be it. :D

[M-Class Planet]

I listened to some of the Circa stuff on their myspace and Billy sure can play the bass. it's a little twangy for me, but still impressive.

I wasn't sure about it to start with but they sould great and Tony sounds FANTASTIC on it. He has such an individual sound. wonderful.

but this album is certialy a slow burner - 10 years and counting isnt it?

[kirk]

Man in the Moon still makes me cringe.

As for you being on it...back of the line, noob ;-)

K

[CybrKhatru]

Yeah, I stil have a problem with Man In The Moon too...
..but I am enjoying most of the rest of it!!

[yarstruly]

I actually like Man in the Moon...lol I like the Round & Round ... part....I like the way it swirls around in the mix...the words aren't great, but I like the way it sounds & the melody....

[M-Class Planet]

To be honest, I think I am condition to just filter out yes's lyrics. It often doesnt do to pay to much attention to them.

In fact, I think they suffer when they are less ambiguous. you start seeing their shrt comings.

but in any case - the music on the album is the best part for me.

[yarstruly]

So I guess I was ahead of the curve in appreciating this album? lol.....but my support for this CD has been well documented for the past 5 years that I have been coming around here....

[kirk]

Yeah, the worst Yes is still better than most of the Prog out there.

I'd have to say though, if they were to release it today (imo), it'd
likely be the final nail in the coffin :-(

I'm trying to warm up to Circa, but it in no way measures up to
Porcupine Tree's stuff for me. Apples and Oranges perhaps....

K

[umgekehrt]

I don't hate any song from OYE, not even Man in the Moon, but other than the first two songs, they're not memorable.

[CybrKhatru]

I'm trying to warm up to Circa, but it in no way measures up to
Porcupine Tree's stuff for me. Apples and Oranges perhaps....

No dear friend, that's Pink Floyd. *ducking*

[kirk]

No dear friend, that's Pink Floyd. *ducking*

Hey Matt-

I won't deny the connection..the further back you go, the more
the Pink Floyd influence shows. What many aren't aware of, is the addition
of a relatively unknown band's influence, Oceansize.
www.myspace.com/oceansizeuk

Steven lists them on PT's myspace page, they top the
playlist on stevenwilson.com.

You know, it's all a pyramid....or another brick in the wall.

K

[CybrKhatru]

Hey Matt-

I won't deny the connection..the further back you go, the more
the Pink Floyd influence shows. What many aren't aware of, is the addition
of a relatively unknown band's influence, Oceansize.
www.myspace.com/oceansizeuk

Steven lists them on PT's myspace page, they top the
playlist on stevenwilson.com.

You know, it's all a pyramid....or another brick in the wall.

K
LOL...I was actually referring to the Pink Floyd song "Apples and Oranges"....;)

(and for the record, I am a big PT fan!)

[kirk]

LOL! Oh yeah...Hey, it's still early...i'm not a morning person.

K

[Dantalion Rides Again]

I really love The Ladder, and I listened to it today.

Now I'm listening to Open Your Eyes, and wondering if anyone else finds them to be similar albums. OYE gets slammed as possibly the worst thing they ever did, and The Ladder is typically viewed in a much more favorable light. That's been my observation of fan reaction.

But my own experience has been that the nice things that can be said about The Ladder apply to OYE as well (except for the length of the songs), and that OYE's negative traits can be found on The Ladder.

Just wondering if I'm alone in this. I definitely prefer The Ladder overall, but I don't rank OYE too far behind.

I suspect there's the possibility that I'm just inclined to favor late-period Yes, either because it's the underdog, or because Howe's back, or because I thought Yes was done in 1993. I dunno.

:shrug:

[Hey wait a minute ... this feels suspiciously like a lost opportunity for a brand new thread.]

[islandsofarabia]

But my own experience has been that the nice things that can be said about The Ladder apply to OYE as well (except for the length of the songs), and that OYE's negative traits can be found on The Ladder.

I like both, but don't see eye to eye with you on this theory.
I'll elaborate, with no specifics, and maybe therein lies a basis to move forward via a complete refutation..

Nice things about the ladder:

great melodies, great songs, positive vibe, in an almost corny way that challenges your conception of yes...which is good.

negative and pejorative things to say about the ladder:

Band sounds like there are too many people in it.
Some pseudo-orchestral keyboard samples are excessively containing or resembling cheese.
A little too ABWH sounding.


Nice things to say about OYE:

It rocks.
It is full of catchy tunes.
It is fun.
It is otherworldly, dark, and full of unexpected twists.

Bad bad things to say about OYE:

Not quite as organic and perfect as old yes.
Harmonica too thin sounding.

Looking up into the endless sky
Staring into the maze of time
Our existance caught in the blink of an eye
Imagining other words we try

[Dantalion Rides Again]

harmonica too thin sounding! awesome random criticism.

I don't find OYE dark, other than its artwork.

I just re-read your post, while partway thru typing this one, to find that I missed the cheese comment the first time. I'll have to listen for that, but I'm a fan of ABWH, so ... I don't know that it'll strike me as that significant.

But your analysis is cool ... I like your insights.

Still, I feel I can read your pros & cons on OYE and pretend you're talking about The Ladder.

::affects gloating tone::

I'm right.

:D

[yestor23]

Open Your Eyes and discover...........? Your not the only 1
Good Cd, a bit shy of pretty good, and or excellent.

[yestor23]

I Liked the tour though, even though there was no new Cd to promote.

[islandsofarabia]

I just re-read your post, while partway thru typing this one, to find that I missed the cheese comment the first time. I'll have to listen for that, but I'm a fan of ABWH, so ... I don't know that it'll strike me as that significant.


The cheese comment and the ABWH jab were seperate items...
Cheese being for instance:
the horns in the bridge-y part of homeworld
the strings in the break-it-down (before the 'when i feel the hurt in so many peoples lives") part of If You Only Knew (adore the song though.)

ABWH-like for instance:
maybe in "lightning strikes" ;)


::affects gloating tone::

I'm right.

:D

I also reread my post and noticed that I was completely agreeing with you, despite my very best efforts. nice goin'. :beerchugr:

[Dantalion Rides Again]

hahaha!

Funny stuff right thar.

I love "Lightning Strikes" man ... I really resented the cell phone lyric at first ... that line struck me as a device to try and sound hip, or relevant or something. But that "touching together/touching my feeling" business just rules. Plus, I've never heard a catchier song in 7 time before!

[Lifeseeker66]

I really love The Ladder, and I listened to it today.

Now I'm listening to Open Your Eyes, and wondering if anyone else finds them to be similar albums. OYE gets slammed as possibly the worst thing they ever did, and The Ladder is typically viewed in a much more favorable light. That's been my observation of fan reaction.


I would have to say I don't see the similarity between the two albums. Major differences:

The Ladder is more thematic with some tunes of epic length, while OYE seems to be more random and uniform in song length (almost too pop to some)
Billy Sherwood goes from playing and producing to just producing, marking a definite change in the sound of the band. Igor adds much flashier keyboards onto The Ladder, and Yes' sound resembles Wakemanesque periods of the band.I don't see these two albums as similar, but I do enjoy each of them for the efforts that they are.

[Lifeseeker66]

I really love The Ladder, and I listened to it today.

Now I'm listening to Open Your Eyes, and wondering if anyone else finds them to be similar albums. OYE gets slammed as possibly the worst thing they ever did, and The Ladder is typically viewed in a much more favorable light. That's been my observation of fan reaction.

Okay, Dantalion... I will grant you one similarity that I've noticed between the albums. They both repeat titles and lyrics of other tracks in the various tracks on the album. For example on OYE, in From the Balcony, we hear references to New State of Mind. In Loveshine (one of my favorite tracks), we hear references to lyrics from Universal Garden (my absolutely fave track on OYE) once again. On The Ladder, in Lightning Strikes we hear references to Face to Face. There are more, I can't think of them off the top of my head. But this "reprise" of other tracks lyrics is a really cool thing in my book, because even though these songs are somewhat shorter, it brings back the idea that these tracks are inter-related like a good prog rock album should be.

[Dr.Bass]

I'm a big fan of OYE and the Sherwood/Squire sound. I think it is admirable and necessary to have a Yes album that isn't Anderson/Howe dominated.

As for links to The Ladder, I can imagine that had Jon and Steve been more involved in the writing of OYE it would sound alot like The Ladder. Check out I Could from Conspiracy: The Unknown and compare it to Face to Face and you'll hear what I mean.

[AmyK]

Time for re-evaluation hits the nail on the head. In fact, we are coming to a time where the sound and lyrics of some of the songs on OYE are becoming more relevant than ever.

OYE was not written for most of the 1998 audience, it was written for the 2008 and beyond audience.

"We carry on the same old way no lesson learned from yesterday
Talk of changes lost in pages of paperwork"

and this...

"We cast the world, we set the stage for what could be the darkest age
Short exchanges from perfect strangers we'll never know
But wish we knew"

Do you wonder who is really pulling the strings of the current system?
Do you wonder what is really the truth? "Show it show it"

"In disguise" (like most of us are carrying on a mundane show) "do you wonder when change is gonna come" (Its coming whether we want it or not :)

The song is prophecy 10 years ahead of its time. On the final track did you hear the nature sounds interrupted by the helicopters --- really. This is too much.

Were there folks, the Yesmen saw all this coming ten years ago.

[AmorReal]

Open Your Eyes is actually a pretty good album. There are a few cringeworthy moments, but some of my favorite Yes songs are on this album. Jon Anderson's singing is phenomenal as well.


Now I'm listening to Open Your Eyes, and wondering if anyone else finds them to be similar albums. OYE gets slammed as possibly the worst thing they ever did, and The Ladder is typically viewed in a much more favorable light. That's been my observation of fan reaction.


I'm not sure about similar albums, but I think The Ladder is a worse album (in terms of material.)

[90125yes]

Open you Eyes should not have been a YES album - it should have been a Squire / Sherwood project

the other guys were glued on and added later and it shows

not a unified band effort