Has Big 'G' received the 'RM' and Expansion?

[CerebralJazz85]

Has Big Generator received the 24-bit Remastering and the expanded track listing like everything before it in time? I've checked a few sources, so I'm assuming that the answer is NO. But, it seems that some of you Yes-heads are privy to some information that I'm not. Remember: Insider Trading is illegal.

I was listening to 90125 recently, and even though I've heard it a million times, even the remastered version, I am blown away by the production value of this record. Trevor Horn was definitely the 6th member of YES during this period; a huge contribution to the commercial success of this band. The whole production is highly nuanced and is best heard through a nice pair of headphones. I love the bonus Cinema tracks. I understand that Horn produced portions of 'Big Generator' as well. Which portions? Because the prodution, while not as good as 90125, is still top-notch.

QUESTION 1: Is Big Generator getting the same remastering and expanded track listing as the other albums?

QUESTION 2: Are there any significant tracks that were shelved during this period in time? Do fans have bootlegs of this stuff?

EXTRA CREDIT: Is Trevor Rabin's 90124 worth owning?

I see that a remastered version does exist, but probably not issued from 'Rhino' because its an import and looks like this:

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41M2KAKPWGL._SS500_.jpg

[Melissa]

Nothing from Rhino so far, but there is a boot called "Alternate Generator." I don't know if it's legal to trade here, tho.

[CerebralJazz85]

Do you know what's on it? I would imagine demo versions, right? Anything else of interest?

[BrianD]

It can't be traded - has alternate versions of Love will find a way, Final Eyes, i'm Running, Shoot High, Aim low, Big Generator & Rhythm of Love. No new tracks.

[CerebralJazz85]

It can't be traded - has alternate versions of Love will find a way, Final Eyes, i'm Running, Shoot High, Aim low, Big Generator & Rhythm of Love. No new tracks.


:nono: It can't be traded? :crybby:



:anisantaw Can it be given? :anigift:


Like, in - you to me.

[tardistraveler]

This site cannot sanction the perpetuation of this bootleg, as it was officially recorded material, that was not released.

[Ernie90125]

The Alternate Generator is the first bootleg I ever owned, because I bought it thinking it was a rarity, not realising it was a bootleg because I didn't even know what one was !!!. This was before I knew the YES discography or that there has been albums before 'The YES Album' or an album without Jon etc. I guess I was in my mid-teens.....

I will say 90124 is worth owning though, its an official album, very cheap on places like ebay and I think its excellent.

[CerebralJazz85]

This site cannot sanction the perpetuation of this bootleg, as it was officially recorded material, that was not released.


So, the follow up question to my initial post (which would have to be conjecture on your end) is: do you think that these alternate versions of the songs mentioned will wind up on the 'remastered and expanded' release?? I mean, if there are no other songs from this period, than these are the only things that could be included on said release, right? And, the second part of that inquiry is: Do you or does anybody else know if this thing is getting that kinda treatment anytime soon?

[Ernie90125]

You may find this Q&A I did some time ago with Steve Woolard, who produced or co-produced all the Rhino reissues and box sets interesting. The questions were from members here on YF.

http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?t=23405

[Faceintheplace]

The remaster in your picture is the Japan HDCD (high defenition cd.)

That's what I wound up getting for BG when it turned out Rhino wasn't going to put out Big Generator. It's a good product but I find there's overemphasis on bass and high end and not enough on mids.

The Steve Woolard interview cleared a few things up (sure wish those late find Yes Album and Fragile out-takes had circulated) but I'd still be willing to bet BG wasn't put out by Rhino because of album sales. Which is too bad because I bet they'd be surprised how well BG might have sold, when you factor in how much airplay Rhythm of Love and Love Will Find a Way have got over the years and the market out there for
80's nostoliga.

As for bonus tracks for Big Generator there's more than enough bonus material for a reissue, there's the assorted 12" extended versions and remixes (far better carried off and more listenable than the 90125 remixes imo,) the version of the BG title track that's on the 35th anniversary set and alot of early versions of BG songs, many with alternate lyrics.

[CerebralJazz85]

OK, I followed the advice of Ernie90125 and read the Steve Woolard interview as it concerns the issue of a Big Generator remastering and expansion. And, I'm unsatisfied with his answer to this question, as well as a few others. I would think that he's the dude to be most knowledgeable on the possible availabiltiy of bonus material. But, as the track listing of 'Alternate Generator' and the replies to his question attests, it looks like the man wasjust trying to avoid any questions on the subject. If there is material available, why not go forth with the project? As I understand, there hasn't been any remastering performed on the initial studio material, apart from the japanese release. QUESTION: What is a handmade release?

- Big Generator

I'd love to, but that's just me. Give me suggestions for bonus material that truly exists and we'll see... might make a good Handmade release.

flatopfreak says: "There is some bonus material for Big Generator. The single version of Love Will Find a Way (without the violin intro)-the mix of the song Big Generator from the Ultimate Yes are two of them. I believe there was a single edit of Rythym of Love and that there were dance mixes for both Rythym and Love will find a way. Additionally, a live edit of City of Love was the b-side of Rythym of Love and there is that live version of It Can Happen that was the b-side of the It Can Happen single from 90125. There may be single edit of Final Eyes as well but I'm not sure."

Then, faceintheplace follows with: There was an extended version of Love Will Find a Way released on a 12" single, There are some interesting remixes of Rhythm of Love, one I particuarly like has horn and string stabs and Tito Peunte style percussion. There are early alternate versions of Shoot High Aim Low, Big Generator (with different lyrics) and Final Eyes avaliable on bootleg. Other early versions may also exist.

Then he addresses 90125, an album I love, and a remastering I was totally satisfied with. The only question that arose when making my way through the bonus tracks was, "Is this it? Or is there a whole bunch of Cinema stuff that has been left off of this?". So, what is it, guys? Is there a bunch of stuff from this period that was omitted when compiling this expanded version? I don't have Trevor's 90124 so I'm in the dark about whether that included any of the Cinema stuff. From the answers here below, it looks like other stuff exists. I loved 'Make It Easy, 'It's Over', Cinema's 'It Can Happen' and the A Capella version of 'Leave It', so anything else, especially a twenty minute version of the track - 'Cinema' is going to be embraced with open arms. But, I don't want to open the wallet yet again and I'm going to be pissed if they try another re-release in a couple of years. QUESTION: Does anybody know of the existence of other tracks and outtakes from the period that were left off of the expanded version?

Would Rhino consider releasing any of the Cinema (pre-90125) sessions ?

If it could be determined where the tapes are and who owns them, then after getting approvals... I'm not too optimistic...


One particular unreleased song that YES fans were looking out for, was 'Time' the 20 minute version of Cinema on 90125. In interviews, (example available) Trevor Rabin has said that he hoped it would be released. Do you think this is possible ?

It wasn't in the vault and I believe I asked Mr. Rabin about it. We don't know where the tape is.

I'm not buying the answer below one bit. The decision as to where the 'Paris Sessions' were going to be placed was a very shrewd marketing move. First off, I don't think it was any coincidence that the two least popular and worst selling YES albums (Tormato, Drama) received the most bonus tracks when re-releasing the catalogue. This was a marketing decision to get people to purchase, or repurchase something that they might not have thought about otherwise. And, the second part of that calculated decision was to place the 'Paris Sessions' on Drama. Drama is missing Jon and Rick, and there are some people out there that want no part of that album because of that fact. What better way of making those unintrested parties pick up the album, than putting tracks with Jon and Rick on the re-release. The 'Paris Sessions' obvious fell in between Tormato and Drama, so the decision could have gone either way. But, the fact that Jon and Rick were a part of those sessions was the deciding factor for why they went onto the Drama disc. QUESTION: Is this the entirety of what was recorded in France, or are there other tracks missing?

On Drama the songs from the aborted 'Golden Age' sessions were included. Chronologically this release may be the nearest, but did it worry you that including Jon Anderson songs would create issues considering the history of Drama ? Was issuing them elsewhere considered ?

If I had it to do over again, I would probably not have put them on Drama. I found out late that Steve Howe was rather upset about it - he would have preferred them to be on Tormato, which makes perfect sense. As it was, I ran short of bonus tracks for Drama and didn't want these tracks to go unused. Hindsight, as they say, is 20-20.

It must have been about a week after I bought 'YES - Greatest Video Hits' that I turned on VH1 after midnight and saw the video for 'On The Silent Wings Of Freedom'. I was livid. It would have taken no extra effort to include such footage, and would have pleased the fans a great deal. But, instead of that great, extended in-studio music video, they gave us two songs from 9012Live, only to re-release a director's cut of that DVD shortly after. I don't understand. Does not compute. QUESTION: Is there any other promos/music videos excluded from this DVD's, and if so, why?

A short while ago 'Greatest Video Hits' was issued on DVD. Very shortly later it was re-issued again on DVD with a different cover and band commentary. Please can you discuss with fans what makes it worthwhile re-buying this DVD again so soon ?

I don't know the history of this release. I thought it only came out on VHS and that ours was the first DVD of it. Who put it out on DVD before?

[Faceintheplace]

Warner/ Atco had already put out a DVD of Greatest Video Hits, at least in Canada they did. That's what I have, the DVD has the same artwork as the VHS version.

[CerebralJazz85]

Warner/ Atco had already put out a DVD of Greatest Video Hits, at least in Canada they did. That's what I have, the DVD has the same artwork as the VHS version.

Yo, that's funny! I asked four questions, one at the end of each paragraph, and you replied to what? Was there a question being asked by a little birdie on your shoulder about artwork? LOL!

[Faceintheplace]

There were promo films cut for some of the Time and a Word tracks with Steve miming to Peter Banks' parts not included on the Greatest Video Hits package. Also not included was a promo film for America which you can see parts of in the Yesyears documentary.

The bit I just put in before about the DVD wasn't refering to one of your questions, it was referring to part of the Steve Woolard interview you quoted in your post where he wrongly assumed Rhino were the first to reissue Greatest Video Hits for DVD.
________
QUESTION 1: Is Big Generator getting the same remastering and expanded track listing as the other albums?

It doesn't look like it will at this time, but the Steve Woolard interview states that there might be a limited release on Rhino Handmade and Rhino Handmade have put out far less commercial prospects such as a six cd set of the Stooges Funhouse sessions, the live shows recorded for the Doors' Absolutley Live album some of which Jim's pretty wasted on and a two cd set with all the Wildman Fischer stuff Rhino put out.

QUESTION 2: Are there any significant tracks that were shelved during this period in time? Do fans have bootlegs of this stuff?

I believe that's refered to throughout this thread, there are alternate mixes and early versions of many songs, so Rhino's claim of not enough bonus material was bunk.

EXTRA CREDIT: Is Trevor Rabin's 90124 worth owning?

I don't know, I don't have it.

[CerebralJazz85]

There were promo films cut for some of the Time and a Word tracks with Steve miming to Peter Banks' parts not included on the Greatest Video Hits package. Also not included was a promo film for America which you can see parts of in the Yesyears documentary.



I've seen some of this stuff on You Tube. Very cool. Especially the video for Astral Traveller. I think that the Greatest Video Hits could have been MUCH better. It's tragic that it didn't contain 'On The Silent Wings Of Freedom' and the promo film for 'America'.

But, the questions I really were referring to are the one's at the end of each paragraph in my Post #11. After reading the interview, there were a few unaswered things.

[Faceintheplace]

QUESTION: What is a handmade release?

This is Rhino Handmade, a Rhino offshoot that makes limited edition cds.

QUESTION: Does anybody know of the existence of other tracks and outtakes from the period that were left off of the expanded version?

Apart from Cinema material I'm not really sure on studio stuff. But I would imagine there would be alternate takes of stuff from the 90125 sessions.

There was a live version of It Can Happen put out as It Can Happen's b-side, it's the same one that's on the 9021Live video. I was surprised that didn't make it the the 90125 reissue or The Word is Live.

_______________________

Who released Greatest Video Hits on DVD before?

Waner/ Atlantic - Atcovision, same as the VHS.

[CerebralJazz85]

Another shame is that the live YES Drama version of "Go Through This" did not make the Drama reissue, as well as that song that was mentioned in the interview. I'm talking about the one that the interviewee asked Trevor Horn about and received no reply. I finally heard the "Go Through This" track from some yesfans member's site. It was very cool to hear the thing with vocals after having the instrumental Squire/Howe/White version for some time already.

[Faceintheplace]

Live versions of Go Through This and We Can Fly From Here from Madison Square Garden 1980 are on The Word is Live. They aren't in the best quality but they're listenable.

Before that I had mp3s of versions of those songs from a Yes fan website no longer up from a Hartford '80 show that were quite good.

Go Through This is a pretty cool song, to me it's like a cross between Going for the One and Tempus Fugit.

I have a little gripe about the Rhino Drama reissue too, they included a totally redundant track, the single edit of Into the Lens that's pretty much like the album version with a case of ADHD when they could have included the one Paris '79 track that hasn't been offcialy released, a group version of Everybody Loves You Jon put out on his Song of Seven album.

[CerebralJazz85]

Live versions of Go Through This and We Can Fly From Here from Madison Square Garden 1980 are on The Word is Live. They aren't in the best quality but they're listenable.

Before that I had mp3s of versions of those songs from a Yes fan website no longer up from a Hartford '80 show that were quite good.

Go Through This is a pretty cool song, to me it's like a cross between Going for the One and Tempus Fugit.

I have a little gripe about the Rhino Drama reissue too, they included a totally redundant track, the single edit of Into the Lens that's pretty much like the album version with a case of ADHD when they could have included the one Paris '79 track that hasn't been offcialy released, a group version of Everybody Loves You Jon put out on his Song of Seven album.


Yeah, the instrumental version of 'Go Through This' and 'Song No. 4' on Drama, were super clear and a great listening experience for sure. i wasn't too miffed about the 'Into The Lens' single. I was more preturbed about the 'White Car' tracking session. Now, that thing was a waste. It was filler on the regular album, and twice the filler on the re-issue. The 'Run Through The Light' single on the other hand is great. I like it more than the Drama version. So, you're telling me that there was an extra song from the Paris sessions that didn't make the cut. See, that's a dopey, unforgivable move. Get rid of the two wasteful tracks that we just mentioned and get that song on the there.

[Faceintheplace]

I didn't mind the alternate White Car, I liked it better than the album one. The single version of Run Though the Light is quite good but I prefer the album version because Steve is much more prominant.

Run Through The Light was a bit of a wasted opportuninty in my opinion, it wasn't released as a single till the Drama lineup folded. It should have been the initial single released off the album (instead it was Does it Really Happen b/w Into the Lens edit version.) Released at a better time with some plugging behind it, Run Through The Light might have done well.

[CerebralJazz85]

I didn't mind the alternate White Car, I liked it better than the album one. The single version of Run Though the Light is quite good but I prefer the album version because Steve is much more prominant.

Run Through The Light was a bit of a wasted opportuninty in my opinion, it wasn't released as a single till the Drama lineup folded. It should have been the initial single released off the album (instead it was Does it Really Happen b/w Into the Lens edit version.) Released at a better time with some plugging behind it, Run Through The Light might have done well.


You mean that the LP version of 'Does It Really Happen' was the first single? I love the track but, man, was that a bad move when that single version of Run Through The Light is quite catchy. You're right, coulda been a hit. Get YES back in the public consciousness before 90125 hit. I remember when I first got the re-issue, I was listening to them back to back to catch all the differences. But I forget now. Was it a different take or just a re-mix of the same take?


Oh, there's one more question that I did ask about that whole period. Was there any more Squire/Howe/White tracks that were shelved. You know what I mean - the period right before Horn and Downes entered.

[Faceintheplace]

I'm pretty sure Run Through the Light single version is an alternate take.

[AmorReal]

I'd also like to see Big Generator get the remaster treatment. It sounds ok, but the sound quality could definitely be improved. Plus, I'd like to hear some of the leftover tracks that didn't make the album.

My copy of Big Generator is damaged, so I'm wondering if I should buy another copy of the version that's already available, or wait for a remaster? Does anybody know if they are planning to remaster this one?

[tardistraveler]

I wouldn't wait for a remaster. It's my understanding that the remaster project has been shelved, and it's not likely that we'll see Rhino release it.

[CybrKhatru]

Yeah, I doubt they will do it. Rhino has had major changes over the last few years as well.

Probably better off getting another original.

[luckeydoug1]

Nothing from Rhino so far, but there is a boot called "Alternate Generator." I don't know if it's legal to trade here, tho.
A quick search on Google could be VERY beneficial :winknudge !