KTA is BETTER than YESSONGS

[YesfanAndy]

Hey,

Why is everyone so in love with Yessongs? There are only a few positives about it; #1, the wealth of material on it. #2 the "classic" lineup basically is on the whole thing, (except a few tracks that Bill are on).

I think the reason why alot of fans love it is because it came out during that most fruitful period for YES between the years of 71 to 73. Anything that came out being YES related during that time the record buying public bought up. Example: Rick's solo stuff. But back to Yessongs, the quality is terrible. And mainly I feel, that the band plays, and sounds better NOW than they did than. I would listen to a version of "CTTE" done in the last 5 years over the original any day of the week. The originial is too fast. One of the last good things about Yessongs is the design. The way the triple album folded out was a plus.

Now, a far better live recording is the "Keys To Ascension" albums. We get the classic lineup again, but this time, sounding 10 times fresher, and a better setlist. For starters I really wish YES released this album properly the first time it came out. All of the live tracks from SLO should've been on a double album called "Live in S.L.O. 96." or something like that. And then the new stuff, should've been put all together on an album called "Keys To Ascension." "Keystudio" is such a lame title. Onto the music and quality of that album. For me, "CTTE" on KTA is best live version I've heard. The crystal clear sound that are on those albums are great. Alot of good remixing, I guess. What really surprises me is that, Rick and Steve had just rejoined and rehearsed for a few months and they played "Awaken" and "Revealing" like it was riding a bike. I must say that I listen to the live stuff on "Keys" several times a week, and always when I'm driving. These are just my random thoughts on these 2 live albums.. Just seeing if anyone out there agrees with me.

peace,
Andy

[illusion]

I prefer Yessongs. The songs have so much more energy than the Keys versions. Wakeman also plays better on Yessongs than Keys. And Jon's voice sounds better too.

[Safe]

I assume that you ARE having a laugh?!

'Better' recordings do not better performances make.

So many of the tracks are butchered on the KTA sets, and all the aggression and urgency that was evident on Yessongs has vanished.
I've always thought that the density of the sound on Yessongs, which always seems to be put down to iffy production, really captured the sound of the band in full-flight at their zenith.
It certainly sounds like I remember them from the early/mid seventies, and my self-recorded boots bear this out.

I'm sorry, but you need help if you seriously consider the travesty that was KTA superior........

[YesfanAndy]

Safe,

I would hope that you have an open mind, and could respect everyone's opinion. Let me also let you know, I am a 21 year old YES fan who discovered them in 1995, right after Talk, and right before KEYS. So it might appear that I have a soft spot for those albums. I was not around in 1973 when Yessongs was released, but technically YES plays better now, I feel. Just because you find it rare that someone feels that way, is your close mindedness showing. I can appreciate the older fans feeling for YESSONGS, because if I were alive then, I would love Yessongs a hell of a lot more that KTA, I'm sure. I also did not dispute that the YESSONGS album captures their "raw energy" during that time frame. It certainly does. But with Keys, you have 5 guys who have just gotten together since 1979, and they love what they are doing. In the 70's you everything was taken alot more seriously. Even on this current 2002 tour, the reactions and the fun that these guys are having is great. And that's what I hear on KTA, 5 guys getting back together and having a great time.


All I am saying is that I like KTA better than YESSONGS, and I am SURE that I am not alone in that argument.

[nightliner]

Safe,
You are entitled to your opinions, as is everyone else on this forum. Different things appeal to different people for different reasons.

I for one, prefer the quality to KTA as well, but I wish you could get rid of the animation.

[Olias of Schdy]

While the Starship Troop on KTA is among the best I've ever heard. (Well over 50+ bootlegs) I can only say one thing about YESSONGS -- Perpetual Change!!!

As long as we are on the subject, musically YESSHOWS (In my humble opinion) highlights the bands talent more than either of the afore mentioned albums.

If you are lucky enough to have attended the Atlanta 1975 show (Or happen to have a bootleg), you will agree that this show blows them all away!!!

[RobAdams]

Are we talking DVD/VHS or the audio releases? This just might be in the wrong forum.

[nightliner]

Originally posted by RobAdams
Are we talking DVD/VHS or the audio releases? This just might be in the wrong forum.

Good point. I automatically thought of the video, since I mentioned about the animation...and why I moved it here.;)

[yessongs72]

Well,well,well, what do we have ourselves heres? Is it the typical Yes argument? If so let me jump right in!
1. Recording quality,except animation,KTA
2. Best Performance, Yessongs,that is forwhat they gave us,considering 2/3 of the show is missing,never understood that.
3.Matter of fact this years tour and even The Ladder.Masterworks and Symphonic are better than Keys.Reason being they are touring and playing to the energy of different audiences each night,instead of the closed environment like that of Keys.
4.Now, I personally will watch Yessongs,KTA,House of Blues,and Symphonic and enjoy them all,oh and we forget Philadelpia(the same as Yessongs,butchered) and just hope a DVD is made of this tour,if not we the fans are the losers.
Now everyone here has valid points, but Andy you speak of closed minds, well I read yours being very closed concerning the DVD'S,but I guess you will tell me I am,being a 30 year YES fan. And if so I will accept your close minded opinion and if not I will accept your new open minded opinion. And believe me, I have been accused of being close minded here at the forum,lol.

[RobAdams]

To everyone, politely:

Is having a different opinion the same thing as having a closed mind? How can we all perceive everything the same, especially with different ages and experiences? Let's not let this thread accelerate into an angry argument!

[Safe]

Oh, come on, where would we be if we didn't have the odd spat every now and then?

I didn't say that I didn't enjoy KTA, but the playing and the energy is not a patch on Yessongs (i'm talking audio here, as I find it hard to get excited about the marketing tool that is video/dvd).

Apart from anything else, the band has been slowing down year on year, to the point where some tracks now appear to be played at half the original tempo!

I also loathe the version of 'And You, And I' that has been favoured by the band in recent years, with the Howe tinkling replacing that huge overture intro.

[yessongs72]

Rob,
I will agree with you. But, as I see it and have been responded to here. When i post an opinion, I have a closed mind. Butwhen someone else places a post,they are open minded and always right. My response was as you said an opinion of my age and how long I have been listening to Yes. I hold to my stated opinion and will not waver. Is this close minded or an opinion?

[Jackaranda]

It's always great to meet new Yes fans on this site. Being a Yes fan automatically creates a certain bond with other fans. It's a big thing to have in common.

Everybody is entitiled to their opinion, and everyone must respect that. I'm happy for anyone who really likes a certain album. After all there is so much Yes music to choose from.

That said, I was somewhat dissapointed at the live Keys material. The studio tracks on 2 are really good.

Imho, Yessongs is light years better. I think it's the greatest live album ever released by any artist that's ever been on this planet. It was the album that got me hooked on Yes 27 years ago and it stands today as a testament as to how great Yes is live, but especially when they were so young and full of tons of energy. It's my all time favorite album by anyone, save possibly for Revolver.

Again, welcome....Jack

[Dale Cleary]

After hearing CTTE I bought everything I could find including all the solo albums. Yessongs was the record I then listened to mostly. It blew me away. The fact that it was recorded on equipment that wasn't as good as we have today is of absolutely no importance. One of my favourite albums of all time is Impressions by John Coltrane. Now what are the chances of getting him to record on modern equipment? Not too good.
It is the music that is important. All else is icing on the cake.

I also love KTA, I think the version of America is awesome!!

But Yessongs has something all the others lack.
A Bill Bruford solo.
OOH Yeah.

[smatt]

I personally like Yessongs better, if not anything else at least they wer stretching things a bit on the performances. I don't think there's reason to believe that long time fans are any more right than new fans. Although some fans have beena round and followed closely enough to have gathered information that might effect their opinion one way or the other. KTA, from my point of view didn't really happen the way the band envisioned. It was well meant but a poor idea. They just weren't on the during those quikly arranged and unrehearsed show. The recordings were tweaked, spliced form different nights, with a large amount of over-dubs all over the place.

That being said I still enjoy watching and listening to KTA, but it's hard for me to get past the history of the recording of the music and what was done to it. It kind of sits with Union as far as I'm concerned. Some really good ideas that just weren't handled right for many diffferent reasons and didn't live up to expectations of the band or many of the fans. I would not blame anybody for liking KTA better though. Yessongs has some pretty glaring mistakes on it, the sonic quality is really poor. As far as the Philly DVD goes, it's one of the more horrid performances I've heard. But, to some maybe it really rocks, at least you can be assurd that they didn't screw with those recordings at all!

[Kingfish]

Everyone has their own tastes, I'm sure you agree. You being a fan and saying this is surprising. I understand from this, you weren't around in the years they made this album, nor there at their shows, when they toured.

These were classic years for Yes, and their audience, which Yessongs was able to capture, at the best that could be done with equipment available at that time. Those times were so fun and intense at the shows. Security was low and freedom was high, and quite a large majority of people in the crowd were tripping on lsd, and thought, no doubt that Yes members were on the same plain.

These were shows that you came out with your shirt almost ringing wet :gok: from the sweat because it was so intense, all the cheering...the whole crowd standing on the edge of their toes or chairs, literally (sometimes your feet slipping off the chair you were standing on).

It truely was a sight to behold and I'm sorry you missed it, really. They also had the best light show known to man, in my opinion. The memories and excellant music is what people treasure in Yessongs.

True, with todays technology, the sound quality and dynamics makes itself evident on their great newer music, as this is true with all newer music.

I do understand what you mean YesfanAndy by the overall sound quality when comparing to newer cds. I don't mean the music quality, which is fantastic.

This is exactly why I just bought the imported Yessongs from Japan. Not only is is remastered, but it was released only in Japan remastered in HDCD! That should do that trick!! I can't wait to get it!

I hope this has brought some light to days gone by. :thumbs:

[smatt]

But that should come as no suprise!:D

I like Yessongs just for the your above stated reasons Kingfish. It must've been another post you're refering to. I came into the Yes fold in 1977, a little after the classic area, but early enough to witness some of the old time magic. That's what blew me away at the last couple of shows of this tour. That magic was back, the grooves were just phenominal. Better than any tour since at least 79, but probably as good as I've seen since 77. This being said, I like Keys, but get a little turned off with the studio tweaking. The rawness of Yessongs is what I really like, not really the greatest performances ever, but the young feeling of exploring musical styles from an open minded point of view. Yes really was an experiament at the time of the 2 Yessongs tours. Truly the chords of life.

[Kingfish]

Sorry smatt, I misread who started the thread! Oops!

[smatt]

No problem Kingfish! I kind of figured that's what happend! :D

But don't ever let it happen again or :boom:


:D :D :D

[hodorman]

My first post...I'll say this:

I love it all, but Yessongs the movie has one serious problem in my opinion. I am referring to the fact that during Yours Is No Disgrace the camera shots used in the final edit are horribly wrong. They never put the camera on Steve during his parts...not a single verse! They do show him during his solo, but even then the editing is seriously misguided.

Also, the YIND on the Yessongs album contains one of the finest guitar solos in the history of rock music. Unfortunately the solo in the movie is nowhere near as nice.

Think about how amazing it really is that they made the Yessongs movie. So few bands captured that early part of the 70's...we should be so happy the movie even exists. I would love love love to get my hands on more of the footage from those films.

hodorman