Return to Forever - fusion for yes fans

[CerebralJazz85]

I was introduced to this band by my cousin who is a jazz musician and kick ass fusion drummer. He knew of my addiction to all things prog and informed me of this 70's unit that would appeal to my ear for progressive rock, while introducing me to the wider world of jazz/rock fusion. Return to Forever is the closest thing to progressive rock while still maintaining their basis as a Fusion outfit. The compositions are so rythmically complex, yet completely melodic. If you are a fan of Close to the Edge through Relayer era YES, this is, no doubt, the next step on your voyage. The keyboardist and bandleader is THE most accomplished jazz pianist/electric keys player EVER - Chick Corea. The guitarist - World Class six-stringer - Al Dimeola. The Lord of the upright and electric Bass - Stanley Clarke and Living Thunder on the drums - Lenny White. There are only so many times you can listen to CTTE or Relayer. Time to check out 'Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy', 'Where Have I Known You Before' and 'Romantic Warrior'. I GUARANTEE that you will love these albums and bow before these musicians.

[Yes_Fan_4_Life26]

Amazing band! Have you tried Mahavishnu Orchestra with John McLaughlin? Birds of Fire and Inner Mounting Flame are excellent albums :) I do highly recommend if you enjoy the RTF stuff :D

[CerebralJazz85]

Yes, I have those two Mahavishnu albums. And I have another one on order from the local library. I like Birds of Fire much better because its more accessible, which is a weird word to use when talking about them because all their stuff is really out there. Birds is a little less busy and more melodic. The first one I really can't listen to more than a track at a time. All the comps. on that disc are in the most uncommon time signatures known to man and played at breakneck speed. It's a musician's dream. I play bass but not on that level.

In fact, I love straight up jazz even more than fusion but I figured I'd try to inform those YES fans who might be looking for something in the same ballpark as Yes and King Crimson and such. I know I was greatful when my cousin turned me onto Return to Forever. I hope some other cats check it out because of this thread.

[Imperatrix]

THE most accomplished jazz pianist/electric keys player EVER - Chick Corea.

Two words, O young, enthusiastic padawan:

Lyle Mays.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyle_Mays

[MrZuLu]

Tasia, the link you provided does not work

[fovman]

I saw Return to Forever/Music Magic....

It is the only jazz concert I have seen besides Weather Report/Heavy Weather.

The bass players stold the shows. (Stanley & Jaco)

I have these on LP....and the classic Romantic Warrior


I like Corea's Spanish Classical on grand piano! (like Moraz...or I should say Moraz like Corea)

...... "Jazz is weird!." - Alex Lifeson

[Imperatrix]

I'm not a fan of RTF, having heard a whole lot of it over the years; it just never moved me as much as, say, Mahavishnu...or PMG...or the incredible Weather Report.


Return to Forever is the closest thing to progressive rock while still maintaining their basis as a Fusion outfit.

I think this is exactly why I found them rather wanky and insipid, as I find most "prog".


There are only so many times you can listen to CTTE or Relayer.

Absolutely! That's why, IMHO, it's important to find music that's beyond the scope and league of "prog" rock...like Miles Davis, Trane, Weather Report, PMG, Bill Evans Trio (especially the first trio), Keith Jarrett Trio, Jimmy Smith, Monk, Ornette Coleman, Diz, Parker, Basie, Ellington...and, oh, the list goes on.

[Imperatrix]

Tasia, the link you provided does not work

Mmmmm...it does for me. Anyone else having trouble with the link?

[Imperatrix]

...... "Jazz is weird!." - Alex Lifeson

:lmao:

"I'm Stan Getz!" - Alex Lifeson

[PhaseDance]

Mmmmm...it does for me. Anyone else having trouble with the link?
Worked for me.

[CybrKhatru]

I like Romantic Warrior but I must admit, Weather Report (in all its incarnations) seriously rock my world more than RTF.

WR, for all intents and purposes, is less flashy, more groove oriented, and in their earlier years, more spacy. The first WR album is a masterpiece of mood-shaping and subtlety.

The brilliance of the Jaco years had the unfortunate side-effect of eclipsing what WR accomplished prior to his appearance, at least in the public eye. The first two WR albums include the wonderful upright bass playing of Miroslav Vitous.

And then there's Mysterious Traveller....amazing stuff. Phil Collins was a HUGE WR fan back in the day; he lifted a drum riff from this album for "Wot Gorilla", and they were a major reason he became involved with Brand X. Also, Chester Thompson was one of WR's drummers before he joined Genesis.

Wayne Shorter and Josef Zawinul, the two main forces behind Weather Report ... they're the stuff. After all, they're the guys who wrote Footprints (Shorter), and In A Silent Way (Zawinul).

No disrespect intended for Chick...he's a mind-blowing pianist/keyboardist. Anyone who played with Miles has to be good; they'd never have gotten the gig otherwise.

I agree that most anyone who loves Close To the Edge and Relayer will be intrigued by RTF's Romantic Warrior, Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy and Where Have I Known You Before.

But if you love the ambient spaciness of Tales and "Awaken," by all means you must hear Weather Report.

--Matt

[MrZuLu]

it's working now :lol:

I'll blame it on the rain!

[CybrKhatru]

And....the next step after Jazz/Rock Fusion, if you wanna take it, is all the "straight ahead" jazz. That's a whole 'nother head, of course, but a great trip nonetheless.

At the same time I was getting into "prog" I was getting into traditional jazz, so there you go.

[podo]

Just go out and buy RTF live.

It was a 4 LP set that got reduced down to a double CD.

excellant stuff. RTF are one of my fav bands

[BillGuitar]

No Mystery

Not a perfect cd, but I love the funk of Jungle Waterfall.
Used to remember hearing it on the radio!

:thumbs:

[yesyadda]

I wuv Stanley Clarke!

[Albedo]

I'm not a fan of RTF, having heard a whole lot of it over the years; it just never moved me as much as, say, Mahavishnu...or PMG...or the incredible Weather Report.



I think this is exactly why I found them rather wanky and insipid, as I find most "prog".



Absolutely! That's why, IMHO, it's important to find music that's beyond the scope and league of "prog" rock...like Miles Davis, Trane, Weather Report, PMG, Bill Evans Trio (especially the first trio), Keith Jarrett Trio, Jimmy Smith, Monk, Ornette Coleman, Diz, Parker, Basie, Ellington...and, oh, the list goes on.

All so true.

[CerebralJazz85]

yeah, I'm tuned into Weather Report as well. I couldn't get into their first couple, but then again I wasn't into the mostly 'structureless stuff' of 'In a silent way', '-----es Brew' and 'Zawinul '71'. I love the two that I own - Heavy Weather and Black Market. I also have the first Jaco Solo. Wish there was more of that stuff to go around. I started this thread to get more YESFANS into the fusion stuff, but it seems that those that replied are the ones who are already 'in-the-know'.

On a related matter to Weather Report, Wayne Shorter's early 60's stuff is just about the best acoustic jazz one can acquire.

HE put out HIS THREE BEST albums all in the same year of 1964.
Night Dreamer, JUJU and Speak No Evil. Not to say that others like Adam's Apple aren't excellent, but the three I just mentioned are MINDBLOWING.
These discs are just as good as COLTRANE's best stuff on IMPULSE! and that's saying a lot 'cause that stuff is auditory gold.

[CybrKhatru]

yeah, I'm tuned into Weather Report as well. I couldn't get into their first couple, but then again I wasn't into the mostly 'structureless stuff' of 'In a silent way', '-----es Brew' and 'Zawinul '71'. I love the two that I own - Heavy Weather and Black Market. I also have the first Jaco Solo. Wish there was more of that stuff to go around. I started this thread to get more YESFANS into the fusion stuff, but it seems that those that replied are the ones who are already 'in-the-know'.

On a related matter to Weather Report, Wayne Shorter's early 60's stuff is just about the best acoustic jazz one can acquire.

HE put out HIS THREE BEST albums all in the same year of 1964.
Night Dreamer, JUJU and Speak No Evil. Not to say that others like Adam's Apple aren't excellent, but the three I just mentioned are MINDBLOWING.
These discs are just as good as COLTRANE's best stuff on IMPULSE! and that's saying a lot 'cause that stuff is auditory gold.

Preach it, brother....:appl[1]: Wayne's mid 60's Blue Note stuff is amazing. And Coltrane....yeah!

Have you heard Weather Report's live album "8:30"? Great stuff from the 78 tour, with Jaco and Peter Erskine just kicking! Also, Mysterious Traveller is kind of a midway point between the early WR and Black Market. Spacy, yes, but it does have structure.

Cheers!
Matt

[CerebralJazz85]

matt, we're just preachin' to the converted here. anyone that levitates to this thread is already going to be into this stuff anyhow. We need to go over to those sites where these little 'Emo', 'punk' and 'rap' sh**heads populate, and show them what good taste is all about.

[fovman]

:lmao:

"I'm Stan Getz!" - Alex Lifeson

Thanks for providing the punch line.....I forgot.:appl[1]:

:lmao:

[Imperatrix]

matt, we're just preachin' to the converted here. anyone that levitates to this thread is already going to be into this stuff anyhow. We need to go over to those sites where these little 'Emo', 'punk' and 'rap' sh**heads populate, and show them what good taste is all about.

*ahem*

Oh, what a pity. You almost had me, there.

http://www.yesfans.com/showpost.php?p=1259591&postcount=26

[Imperatrix]

Thanks for providing the punch line.....I forgot.:appl[1]:

:hearts: A pleasure, sweets. We're going tonight! :beerchugr:

[fovman]

:hearts: A pleasure, sweets. We're going tonight! :beerchugr:

I hope Alex dropped the Paris Hliton rant by now
... and has a very sick new one.

[Imperatrix]

I hope Alex dropped the Paris Hliton rant by now
... and has a very sick new one.

We're talking an LA show, here...he's probably kept it, or perhaps embellished it. :lmao:

[CybrKhatru]

"Preaching to the converted?" Hey, that's what I do for a living! :lmao:

If there was a way to show everyone the good stuff in every genre (and yes, I do believe such a thing exists), then my work on this earth would be almost complete.

God, that sounds so pretentious! LOL.. I've been reading too much Harry Potter...;)

-Matt

[CybrKhatru]

Hmmm..does that mean La Villa is in the setlist this tour?

Matt, hoping....

[Imperatrix]

If there was a way to show everyone the good stuff in every genre (and yes, I do believe such a thing exists), then my work on this earth would be almost complete.

God, that sounds so pretentious! LOL.. I've been reading too much Harry Potter...;)

:winknudge

(rolling up sleeves) Please let me be your henchwoman who carries this out.

Please.

:sneaky:

[CybrKhatru]

:winknudge

(rolling up sleeves) Please let me be your henchwoman who carries this out.

Please.

:sneaky:

Ah......so you want to do a job for me, then...eh? For our quest for world domina....

..Oops. Move along folks. Nothing to see here. :winknudge

[Timmo]

Matt learned everything he knows about keys by listening to Chick Corea.

Tasia started the original RTF fan club...that's how they met.

(runs for cover).

[BillGuitar]

:winknudge

(rolling up sleeves) Please let me be your henchwoman who carries this out.

Please.

:sneaky:

Hey, waitaminnit...shouldn't that be "henchatrix"?
:hearts:

[milestownyes]

I know Chic Corea is quite the keyboardist, but I never cared for his style all that much and still don't having seen him recently on television. I think my difficulty with really liking him is the fact he does way too much one handed playing to suit me. He goes like a maniac on the melody but but that left hand is just sort of tapping out a sketchy low end. Probably just me.

[CerebralJazz85]

my opinion - chick corea is the most versatile, knowledgeable musician on the planet. seriously. he's a walking encyclopedia of music. knows every scale, mode, chord, change/transition known to man. listen to any of the RTF stuff or the plethora other ensembles he's fronted - listen with HEADPHONES ON - and witness the single most brilliant musician on this spherical stone that sits three spherical stones away from a yellow star in an elliptical, spiral galaxy.
Listen to the first RTF disc when they weren't all plugged in yet and tell me I'm wrong.

[Imperatrix]

Matt learned everything he knows about keys by listening to Chick Corea.

Tasia started the original RTF fan club...that's how they met.

(runs for cover).

:dog: :appl[1]: :appl[1]: :appl[1]:

[Imperatrix]

my opinion - chick corea is the most versatile, knowledgeable musician on the planet. seriously. he's a walking encyclopedia of music. knows every scale, mode, chord, change/transition known to man. listen to any of the RTF stuff or the plethora other ensembles he's fronted - listen with HEADPHONES ON - and witness the single most brilliant musician on this spherical stone that sits three spherical stones away from a yellow star in an elliptical, spiral galaxy.
Listen to the first RTF disc when they weren't all plugged in yet and tell me I'm wrong.


But I did...and, IMHO, that person is not Chick, but Lyle Mays. :D

Keith Jarrett's another; you might enjoy him as well.

[CybrKhatru]

Actually, that first RTF album (Light as a Feather) was always my favorite.

For a long time I thought Chick was a soulless technician...until I saw him play acoustic in 1992 with a killer group: Bob Berg on tenor, Pattitucci on bass, and Peter Erskine on drums.

They OPENED with "Chasing the Trane". That might give you an idea of what the show was like. ;)

Although it doesn't change my feelings of a lot of his work, I do respect him as a player, and he's got soul when he wants to show it!

[CybrKhatru]

Matt learned everything he knows about keys by listening to Chick Corea.

Tasia started the original RTF fan club...that's how they met.

(runs for cover).

You're DEAD to me.

[PhaseDance]

The keyboardist and bandleader is THE most accomplished jazz pianist/electric keys player EVER - Chick Corea. The guitarist - World Class six-stringer - Al Dimeola. The Lord of the upright and electric Bass - Stanley Clarke and Living Thunder on the drums - Lenny White. There are only so many times you can listen to CTTE or Relayer. Time to check out 'Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy', 'Where Have I Known You Before' and 'Romantic Warrior'. I GUARANTEE that you will love these albums and bow before these musicians.
I used to dig cats like Chick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_Corea) and Al (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Di_Meola) much more many, many years ago when I used to listen to those records. These days, I'd say Pat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Metheny) and Lyle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyle_Mays) have more to say musically and are much more interesting, well-rounded musicians. They are far better at conveying meaning and emotion. As technicians, though, I'd say Chick and Al are tops. Their speed and precision is amazing. The track Two To Tango (http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00000273K001004/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_004/104-0931246-7175961) is a prime example. Another obvious example for Al is Mediterranean Sundance (http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00000258M001003/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_003/104-0931246-7175961). What young mind isn't going to be impressed with stuff like this?

I'd say Al has definitely improved in the last twenty years. He started to become interesting again with 1985's Cielo e Terra (http://www.amazon.com/Cielo-Terra-Al-di-Meola/dp/B00000DQSM/ref=sr_1_32/104-0931246-7175961?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1185299257&sr=1-32). Since then he seems to be focusing more on emoting than trying to play as fast as possible (possibly taking a page from Pat's book).



Amazing band! Have you tried Mahavishnu Orchestra with John McLaughlin? Birds of Fire and Inner Mounting Flame are excellent albums :) I do highly recommend if you enjoy the RTF stuff :D
I'd rather listen to John McLaughlin's various projects because melodically I get more out of them.



I'm not a fan of RTF, having heard a whole lot of it over the years; it just never moved me as much as, say, Mahavishnu...or PMG...or the incredible Weather Report.

I think this is exactly why I found them rather wanky and insipid, as I find most "prog".
Yes. At the time they were quite exciting. Now Return to Forever does tend to sound a bit wanky whereas Close To The Edge still sounds fantastic.



Just go out and buy RTF live.

It was a 4 LP set that got reduced down to a double CD.

excellant stuff. RTF are one of my fav bands
Wow...four LPs. In the era before CD box sets I wonder how often that happened.



matt, we're just preachin' to the converted here. anyone that levitates to this thread is already going to be into this stuff anyhow. We need to go over to those sites where these little 'Emo', 'punk' and 'rap' sh**heads populate, and show them what good taste is all about.

*ahem*

Oh, what a pity. You almost had me, there.

http://www.yesfans.com/showpost.php?p=1259591&postcount=26
Where's Dale Carnegie (http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-0931246-7175961?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185299969&sr=8-1) when you need him?



:winknudge

(rolling up sleeves) Please let me be your henchwoman who carries this out.

Please.

:sneaky:

Ah......so you want to do a job for me, then...eh? For our quest for world domina....

..Oops. Move along folks. Nothing to see here. :winknudge
Wait a minute...I thought you two seemed familiar! One of you is a genius and the other is insane!



...I thought Chick was a soulless technician...
We've already been over that point. Pay attention ... and don't interrupt again.



But I did...and, IMHO, that person is not Chick, but Lyle Mays. :D

Keith Jarrett's another; you might enjoy him as well.
If, God forbid, Lyle ever gets run over by the crosstown bus (or possibly eaten by C.H.U.D.s), I nominate Brad Mehldau to take his place.

[Imperatrix]

Wait a minute...I thought you two seemed familiar! One of you is a genius and the other is insane!

:lmao: You're incredible! I was absolutely thinking of Pinky and the Brain when Matt and I posted that!


If, God forbid, Lyle ever gets run over by the crosstown bus (or possibly eaten by C.H.U.D.s), I nominate Brad Mehldau to take his place.

Yes...the little I've heard of Brad (I need to remedy that, and right quick), I agree with you there.

[CerebralJazz85]

Phasedance, all of the fusion stuff is relatively NEW to me, and I love Metal, so I'm kinda stuck on the heavier sounding things right now. I have a few of the Metheny things, but its kinda mellow for my taste. I do listen to them. Put em on right before sleepy time. I wish Jaco would have stayed with him for some duration. That would have heavied it up a wee bit.

[Imperatrix]

Phasedance, all of the fusion stuff is relatively NEW to me, and I love Metal, so I'm kinda stuck on the heavier sounding things right now. I have a few of the Metheny things, but its kinda mellow for my taste. I do listen to them. Put em on right before sleepy time. I wish Jaco would have stayed with him for some duration. That would have heavied it up a wee bit.

If you don't have it already, there's a bit of heaviness on Imaginary Day you'd probably love.

[PhaseDance]

Phasedance, all of the fusion stuff is relatively NEW to me, and I love Metal, so I'm kinda stuck on the heavier sounding things right now. I have a few of the Metheny things, but its kinda mellow for my taste. I do listen to them. Put em on right before sleepy time. I wish Jaco would have stayed with him for some duration. That would have heavied it up a wee bit.
Heavy, you say?

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/45/5e/f31e92c008a035688bcd3010._AA240_.L.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/Zero-Tolerance-Silence-Pat-Metheny/dp/B000008BQO/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1905446-7751844?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1185323550&sr=8-1)

Pat can dole out heavy like nobody's business. I'm not suggesting you buy this, mind you.

[Albedo]

As Falls Wichita So Falls Wichita Falls.

Brilliant:headset:

[Imperatrix]

Heavy, you say?

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/45/5e/f31e92c008a035688bcd3010._AA240_.L.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/Zero-Tolerance-Silence-Pat-Metheny/dp/B000008BQO/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1905446-7751844?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1185323550&sr=8-1)

Pat can dole out heavy like nobody's business. I'm not suggesting you buy this, mind you.


:yikes: :yikes: :yikes: Not...ZTFS!!!!!!

(dives screaming under the bed)

[CybrKhatru]

As Falls Wichita So Falls Wichita Falls.

Brilliant:headset:

Bloody classic, that one is. :thumbs:

[Imperatrix]

As Falls Wichita So Falls Wichita Falls.

Brilliant:headset:

I missed this post, so I must do this for you now:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

AFWSFWF is one of the most incredible albums ever made. The title track: there are no words.

[Albedo]

I missed this post, so I must do this for you now:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

AFWSFWF is one of the most incredible albums ever made. The title track: there are no words.
Agreed. Fortunately no words are needed :)

[Imperatrix]

Agreed. Fortunately no words are needed :)

:dog: I just realized that what I had typed was...so apt! :dog:

[The Whale]

I missed this post, so I must do this for you now:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

AFWSFWF is one of the most incredible albums ever made. The title track: there are no words.

no words just these things......:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Timmo]

As Falls Wichita So Falls Wichita Falls.

Brilliant:headset:LOVE this album, definitely in my Top 10.

Aside from the title song...I love "It's For You" and the song dedicated to Bill Evans...of course I love the whole album.

But the title song is just outragously wonderful.

[CerebralJazz85]

Imaginary Day, Wichita Falls - both now on my pick up list.

I just got back from the local library where I checked out some more of the Weather Report family of friends upon your suggestions.

Mysterious Traveller
Word of Mouth
Weather Report - Live and Unreleased

The Grand Wazoo - Frank Zappa - UNRELATED

[fovman]

Has anybody listened to Passport or Special FX?

[CerebralJazz85]

I haven't heard Passport yet, only know that they're german and fusion/borderline prog. Do they qualify as 'krautrock'? My friend just hooked me up with a copy of an Amon Duul 2 album. That's sum weird structureless stuff going on there. Like it to a degree though.

[CerebralJazz85]

You know what I love about fusion? Don't twist my arm - I'll tell ya. The compositions are so DENSE and COMPLEX, with mostly original and non-conventional structuring that it takes your brain several spins of each particular album just to make sense of what you are listening to. You can listen to album a half dozen times without knowing if you like it or not. The better ones are so highly nuanced that they bear repeated listenings. They have a HIGH REPLAY VALUE, which most regular rock, pop, rap and others lack in a big way.

[todd de sunhillow]

Chick Corea is the man, he's the top of my list on Keyboards, so I love all his stuff, well almost...
John Mc Laughlin too, with his Mahavishnu Orchestra.
Weather Report's, well not all albums, but they are great musicians.
But most of these came from the "MAN" MILES DAVIS!!!

by William Ruhlmann
Return to Forever was jazz keyboard player Chick Corea's jazz-rock fusion band of the 1970s. Like Weather Report and the Mahavishnu Orchestra, it was a group formed by an alumnus of Miles Davis' late-'60s bands with the intention of furthering the jazz-rock hybrid Davis had explored on albums like B$brew.At the time, this was seen as a means of creativity, a new direction for jazz, and as a way of attracting the kinds of large audiences enjoyed by rock musicians. Return to Forever started out as more of a Latin-tinged jazz ensemble, but Corea, influenced by the Mahavishnu Orchestra of John McLaughlin and some of the progressive rock bands coming out of Great Britain, notably Yes and Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, moved the group more toward rock, achieving considerable commercial success. A later re-orientation of the band gave it more of a big band style before Corea folded the unit, retaining the Return to Forever name for occasional other projects.

Corea formed Return to Forever in the fall of 1971 while he was working in Stan Getz's band, and the two groups shared some members. In addition to Corea on keyboards, the initial lineup featured Stanley Clarke on bass, Joe Farrell on reeds, and the Brazilian husband-and-wife team of percussionist Airto Moreira and singer Flora Purim. "Return to Forever" was the name of the first tune Corea wrote for the outfit, and he then adapted it as the group's name. The band made its debut at the Village Vanguard nightclub in New York City in November 1971. In February 1972, they recorded their first self-titled album, though it was not released on ECM in Europe until the following year and did not appear in the U.S. until 1975. Corea, Clarke, and Moreira, all of whom had been playing with Getz, left his band to concentrate on Return to Forever.

The band toured Japan and recorded a second album, Light as a Feather, in London, using some of the songs Corea had written and recorded with Getz, such as "500 Miles High" and "Spain." It was released on Polydor Records. Up to this point, Return to Forever was more notable for its Latin sound than for fusion, but when Farrell left in the spring of 1973, Corea replaced him with a rock guitarist, Bill Connors from Spiral Staircase. Moreira and Purim also left to form their own group, and Corea brought in drummer Steve Gadd and percussionist Mingo Lewis, unveiling the new lineup at the New York City nightclub the Bitter End in April. They then cut a new album, but when it became apparent that Gadd, a successful session musician, wasn't interested in touring, Corea replaced him with Lenny White of the rock band Azteca, who changed the sound sufficiently that the band went back into the studio in August 1973 and recut the album, which was released in October under the title Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy. Here, Return to Forever turned decisively towards progressive rock and fusion, with Corea employing an extensive set of synthesizers. The result was crossover commercial success; the album spent several months in the pop charts.

In 1974, Connors left the group and was replaced initially by Earl Klugh, though only for a tour. The permanent replacement was 19-year-old Al DiMeola, who left the Berklee School of Music to join the band. That summer, Return to Forever recorded its fourth album, Where Have I Known You Before, which was released in September. Backed by an extensive tour that ran through December and closed at Carnegie Hall, the album reached the pop Top 40 and remained in the charts more than five months. The band went back into the studio in January 1975 and quickly cut its fifth album, No Mystery, which was released in February. It too made the Top 40, though it charted for only three months. It also won the 1975 Grammy Award for Best Jazz Performance by a Group. Corea signed Return to Forever to Columbia Records, while remaining at Polydor as a solo artist. Romantic Warrior, a concept album on medieval themes, was the first Return to Forever album not to be co-billed to Corea on the original LP. Released in March 1976, it became the band's third consecutive Top 40 hit and went on to become its biggest seller, eventually earning a gold record. But with its completion, Corea again changed stylistic direction and disbanded the lineup.

Retaining Clarke as always, Corea immediately reformed Return to Forever, adding his wife, Gayle Moran, formerly of the Mahavishnu Orchestra, on vocals and keyboards returning member Joe Farrell, and drummer Gerry Brown, along with a horn section consisting of trumpeters John Thomas and James Tinsley, and trombonists Jim Pugh and Harold Garrett. With this personnel, Return to Forever recorded its seventh album, Musicmagic, which was released in March 1977. It became the band's fourth consecutive Top 40 album, spending more than four months in the charts. A third trombonist, Ron Moss, was added for the tour. On May 20-21, 1977, Return to Forever recorded a live album at the Palladium theater in New York City, but Corea disbanded the group permanently after the tour.

Return to Forever Live was released in February 1979, when it spent a month in the charts. (This was the single LP version; the show was also released as a triple LP, Live: The Complete Concert, which was later reissued as a double CD, Live.) In 1983, Corea reassembled Clarke, DiMeola, and White for a tour.

Return to Forever ultimately came to be viewed as a chapter in the career of Chick Corea, who was sometimes given sole credit on CD reissues of its albums. In its time, it rose and fell according to the popular and critical response to jazz fusion in general, gaining accolades and healthy sales early on, but suffering from the backlash that all progressive jazz endured after the 1970s, when musical trends turned conservative and the remnants of jazz-rock mutated into smooth contemporary jazz. Also, it has fallen between stools in terms of music criticism, with hidebound jazz critics dismissing it as too much like rock music, while rock critics think of it as a jazz group. As such, there is a tendency to undervalue the band's real musical accomplishments, which however, remain available to be heard on the records.

hope this helps.

[CerebralJazz85]

"Corea formed Return to Forever in the fall of 1971 while he was working in Stan Getz's band, and the two groups shared some members."

There's a Getz album that's really an early RTF album. It's called 'Captain Marvel' from 1972 and it has the songs from the first two RTF albums done with the saxophone out in front - slightly different versions. It's the companion piece to the first two RTF discs.

[todd de sunhillow]

Has anybody listened to Passport or Special FX?

Do you mean SPECIAL EFX?

Its one of my fav too during their GRP era's, but the later albums was a bit poppy, so I'm not so impress with their pop styles, I think I've got 5 of their albums, and George Jinda solo too is cool.:rightG:

About Passport, I've heard of them, but I have no CD, just a sampler, Its more on Klaus Doldinger sax into it.:musicb:

[YYY]

In 69, Only months before I first got deeply into YES, I heard MILES DAVIS's "BEETCHES BREW", the album that ignited Jazz Fusion.
ONE OF THE GREATEST RECORDINGS EVER. Mesmerizing!!!!!

Many of the young musicians who went on to develope the genre played on that recording and with MILES at one time or another.
Miles Davis - trumpet
Wayne Shorter - soprano saxophone (Weather Report)
Bennie Maupin - bass clarinet
Chick Corea - electric piano (Return to Forever)
Larry Young - electric piano
Joe Zawinul - electric piano (Weather Report)
John McLaughlin - guitar (Mahavishnu Orchestra)
Dave Holland - bass
Harvey Brooks - electric bass
Lenny White - drum set (Return to Forever)
Billy Cobham - drum set (Mahavishnu Orchestra)
Jack DeJohnette - drum set
Don Alias - congas, drum set
Juma Santos - shaker, congas

I was heavy into Jazz Fusion, jumping regularly from prog to fusion in an endless cycle. Both were equally progressive, technical, creative and imaginative.

MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA were the first great electric Fusion band to emerge. Originally they were 4 of the some of the best musicians I'd ever seen (live first time in 74 Central Park). Billy Cobham was extremely technical yet musically and rhythmically imaginative. He was nort only the fastest/precise I'd ever seen drummer but he made me realize that melody could be produced by drums.

RETURN TO FOREVER were also great and had a unique voice different than Mahavishnu. Chick is a master. Stanley Clarke the virtouoso bass player was only a teenager when he joined.
Al Dimeola fast melodic spanish flavor guitar player were also brilliant. I also have a few great solo albums by their drummer Lenny White.

I could go on and on with many obscure fusion bands of that time but WEATHER REPORT is one that really stood out and blended more traditional Jazz with modern electronics styles.

BRAND X (with Phil Collins) arrived as the new breed of Fusion with an explosive great bass player Percy Jones.

This is why I truly admire Bill Bruford. These bands were a major influence on him as well as peers like Soft Machine and National Health who played a blend of Prog Fusion. Soft Machine's "Softs" is one of the best blends I've heard. "Queues & Cures by HN is also one of the best Prog Fusion recording.
HN's Dave Steward on keys played Bill's solo albums and was part of the Cantebury Prog scene along with unique guitarist Allan Holdsworth who earlier played with Soft Machine.

This genre was the other greatest new musical creation to develope in the 70's. It continues today with many such as Trlok Gurto, the indian tabla player/drummer and the amazing guitarist Greg Howe.

Return to Forever play Medieval Overture from Romantic Warrior
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XCg_EGPb1QA

[CerebralJazz85]

YYY, '-----es Brew' was the vantage point from which I started my fusion quest. It's not just coincidental that all those great fusion outfits began out of those BB sessions. Davis knew how to pick his supporting cast. Too bad he didn't know how to keep em for any duration.

RTF is still my favourite outta all of them. Although I'm checkin' more Metheny stuff. I found 'Wichita' and 'Imaginary Day' through a local library and am gunna pick those bad boys up soon. I'm also gunna look at your link right now.

[CerebralJazz85]

YYY, '-----es Brew' was the vantage point from which I started my fusion quest. It's not just coincidental that all those great fusion outfits began out of those BB sessions. Davis knew how to pick his supporting cast. Too bad he didn't know how to keep em for any duration.

RTF is still my favourite outta all of them. Although I'm checkin' more Metheny stuff. I found 'Wichita' and 'Imaginary Day' through a local library and am gunna pick those bad boys up soon. I'm also gunna look at your link right now.

I borrowed both 'Wichita' and 'Imaginary Day' and like them as much as the other Metheny stuff I have which isn't that strong of a feeling. There's a 'sameness' to his stuff which doesn't inspire ex-ci-ta-tion.They do get airplay along with my 70's Keith Jarrett stuff, right around sleepytime. In fact, they have the same effect as a good cup of chamomile tea.

But, If we are to talk about fusion records that ROCK apart from the aforementioned RTF discs, the one I'm spinnin' right now has got to be on the top twenty of the ROCKERS - Pat Martino's 1976 Starbright. Actually I don't know if its 'starbright' or 'Joyous Lake' I'm talking about here 'cause they come together and my cousin burned it for me with no listing. Anyways, this thing is on FIRE. Some of the most complex guitar parts imaginable - Think -STEVE HACKETT's song - Ace of Wands. An entire album of that.

[YYY]

I simply love Hackett's 'Ace'. I briefly checked out Pat Martino on Youtube. He has a Metheny-ish vibe. 'Witchita' was one of first serious connections with Metheny. It's simply superb. BTW...Melodically Pat is very influenced by the incredible singer/composer Milton Nascimento from Brazil. I think you'd like his music

Here's a duo by 2 fusion guitar masters:

Al Dimeola and my tehnical favorite John Mclaughlin. Saw him about 5 years ago and he plays the most complex shi-at like it's as natural as breathing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rOVWqhGXVNA

[YYY]

Pat with his brazilain influenced classic.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pvaVQZP6A_M

Here's another overlooked incredible prolific master from Brazil you might like
EGBERTO GISMONTI

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NRqc_oQ6Y5k

[CerebralJazz85]

I simply love Hackett's 'Ace'. I briefly checked out Pat Martino on Youtube. He has a Metheny-ish vibe. 'Witchita' was one of first serious connections with Metheny. It's simply superb. BTW...Melodically Pat is very influenced by the incredible singer/composer Milton Nascimento from Brazil. I think you'd like his music

Here's a duo by 2 fusion guitar masters:

Al Dimeola and my tehnical favorite John Mclaughlin. Saw him about 5 years ago and he plays the most complex shi-at like it's as natural as breathing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rOVWqhGXVNA


I watched this vid. - good stuff. I have the Friday Night in San Francisco album with these cats plus Paco Delucia.

Martino has gone through several styles over the years. But on that 'Joyous Lake' he delivers a style like 'Ace of Wands'. The album is actually much closer to progressive rock than jazz fusion. And, the thing gets very mixed reviews. IT seems that a person either loves it or despises it. I figure the haters are those who thinks fusion should sound like the aural equivalent of 'Ambien'. Whereas, I think it should sonically resemble 'Caffeine' and existential philosophy.

[CerebralJazz85]

I simply love Hackett's 'Ace'. I briefly checked out Pat Martino on Youtube. He has a Metheny-ish vibe.

yeah, but no, what you saw was but one of several periods of Martino's career. Seriously, you must check out Joyous Lake, which comes with another album, entitled Starbright, as part of a 'two albums on one disc' deal that they re-named - First Light. You do this favour for yourself and your looking at 6 tracks in a row that are in the same vein as 'Ace of Wands'. You do this favour for yourself and you'll be back on here thanking me for it. You do this favour for yourself and you'll see your health improve, you'll grow two inches and be able to bench an additional 50 pounds. Then, you'll be elsewhere in the world touting this album's miraculous powers to others. You'll see.