Qpr Official Dvd In September ?

[DREAMER]

Has anyone else noticed that on Henry Pott's 'where are they now?' site an official release of the QPR DVD is due in Sept. ? Can anyone else verify ? If so - lets hope they've got the sound sorted out !

[sionny]

found this :

http://www.play.com/Music/MusicDVD/4-/3386559/-/Product.html?searchstring=gates+of+qpr&searchsource=0


John

[BlankReg]

They make no mention of a remaster, and all reports I have seen said there is no multi-track recording of this show to fix the audio issues with.

[Bo Locks]

I don't think this will be an "audio fixed" version. What choice have we earthbound misfits? I only have a boot so I'm grateful and will be scooping up this AND Zappa's Token Of His Extreme also down for 24/09.

[relayeire]

this has been released before on DVD, according to CD Universe... the audio is problem enough that any sale should have a warning about it... I spent $100+ on a laser disc of this years ago, and only found out after receiving that at least half of the show's mix is screwed up... Jon on LEAD rhythm guitar, with Steve missing the mix, etc.

[Faceintheplace]

Play.com sell bootlegs so this most likley isn't official.

[YesJen357]

For those of us who already have a copy of this 'ordinary' sound show....I doubt there would be too much interest in parting with 'hard earned' for an official copy.
Sure it may have been a classic piece of YES history, but all things considered, I just don't think it was such a good show. But with the sound fixed and re-released.....Now that would be a different story!

[Ralf Eigl]

Despite the sound issues, this is my favorite Yes DVD, far better than any other - what an excellent setlist!

[Jonk]

This is a bootleg sourced from Germany although the packaging would have you think this is a Yes authorised release. From what I know it is not.

I have it and it is by far the best version of this show I have ever sen and in my humble opinion very very close to the master tape. The sound has not been fixed although it does sound marginally better than previous editions.

Be warned however that it comes in two volumes on two seperate discs and also the pictures on the back feature Rick Wakeman and not Patrick Moraz. Silly mistake and one that really should have been picked up on before manufacture. Nicely packaged though in Roger Dean artwork but Bootlegs nevertheless:headset:

[Doctor Flang]

I have the masterplan-version on dvd (it was released in june), for some reason they only released Disc 2. It's the same version as before, but i don't mind because it's a lot better than my fifth generation vhs-copy. So, i'm waiting for the Disc 1. to be released.

And i seriously doubt that there's ever gonna be a proper official version with remixed audio...

[Jonk]

I have the masterplan-version on dvd (it was released in june), for some reason they only released Disc 2. It's the same version as before, but i don't mind because it's a lot better than my fifth generation vhs-copy. So, i'm waiting for the Disc 1. to be released.

And i seriously doubt that there's ever gonna be a proper official version with remixed audio...
Not until the master tapes are found which isn't the case whatever you may have heard. You have to remember that the BBC who recorded the show have been terrible at storing and filing tapes in their archive and that is possibly the reason these tapes cannot be found. They may well turn up eventually having been mis filed or mislaid. Let's hope that is the case:headset:

[Doctor Flang]

...and who knows if it was recorded on multitrack in the first place? The mixing is so horrible that one is quite sure it was recorded straight to 2-track/mono.

[Jonk]

...and who knows if it was recorded on multitrack in the first place? The mixing is so horrible that one is quite sure it was recorded straight to 2-track/mono.

What you have on the soundtrack of this DVD/Video is what they call a scratch mix on the film. When it is filmed there will be a time code in the unedited film. This is then matched up to the multi track recording. The show was multi track recorded by the BBC. There are records that prove this but although the records show the show was recorded when you

go to the corresponding plce where the file tells you the multi track tapes should be stored they are not there.

That means a number of things. First the tapes could have been recorded over and re used which was something that happened a lot at the BBC. The tapes could merely have been wiped or and hopefully this is the case. The tapes have been mis filed.
The show however was multi track recorded according to the files.

The only show that Yes performed were it was a straight stereo out from the mixing desk for a broadcast as far as I am aware was the Drama show from 1980 at Madison Square Garden. Originally though even that show WAS meant to be multi track recorded:headset:

[Bluegrunt]

Play.com sell bootlegs

I didn't know that.

[Jonk]

I didn't know that.
Actually neither did I until I saw that they are also selling Led Zeppelin at Knebworth and Genesis Live At The Lyceum in 1980. Is this the company that is based in the Channel Islands? If so it may explain why they sell bootlegs:headset:

[Doctor Flang]

What you have on the soundtrack of this DVD/Video is what they call a scratch mix on the film. When it is filmed there will be a time code in the unedited film. This is then matched up to the multi track recording.

Was QPR ever broadcasted? And if it was, did BBC remix the audio?

The only show that Yes performed were it was a straight stereo out from the mixing desk for a broadcast as far as I am aware was the Drama show from 1980 at Madison Square Garden. Originally though even that show WAS meant to be multi track recorded

But why it was not? I remember reading somewhere that Brian Lane was against it, and that he actually sabotaged the FM broadcast by purpose to fight bootleggers. That story sounds quite unbelievable...

[Jonk]

Was QPR ever broadcasted? And if it was, did BBC remix the audio?



But why it was not? I remember reading somewhere that Brian Lane was against it, and that he actually sabotaged the FM broadcast by purpose to fight bootleggers. That story sounds quite unbelievable...
First of all I believe the QPR show was broadcast in edited form but that was the only thing that was broadcast from the show. Around forty minutes of it. I doubt whether much work would have been put into a mix such was the times in which the film was made. Perhaps the tapes went missing after that. You wouldn't believe the amount of stuff that was junked in those days. I can tell you that the film director Tony Palmer filmed the Who in 1967 but only a small amount of the entire gig was used in a documentary he filmed depite the whole gig being filmed the rest was edited out and thrown away!!
I would imagine that Yes and many other bands suffered a similar fate sadly.

As for the Yes MSG gig there was a deal in place to record the gig with multi track. Then the deal was off and the 24 track desk removed from the venue. 24 hours before the gig! come the day of the gig the deal was back on but there was no time to get the 24 track desk back into the venue and so the decision was taken to taake a stereo left and right feed from the desk direct to the broadcast. So there you go that is how it was for that gig. Shame really as the Drama line up still fascinates me and I would love to hear a good quality full show from that band:headset:

[Doctor Flang]

You wouldn't believe the amount of stuff that was junked in those days. I can tell you that the film director Tony Palmer fimed the Who in 1967 but only a small amount of the entire gig was used in a documentary he filmed depite the whole gig being filmed the rest was edited out and thrown away!!


That was very common here in Finland too. Finnish broadcast corporation YLE was notorious for recording many great gigs, then wiping them without even broadcasting them. Among those lost tapes are Jethro Tull's 1970 gig in Helsinki and portions of Jimi Hendrix's '67 visit.


I would imagine that Yes and many other bands suffered a similar fate sadly.


...And when BBC didn't lose them, Yes succesfully lost lots of recordings anyway.


Shame really as the Drama line up still fascinates me and I would love to hear a good quality full show from that band


That said, is there any good quality ( - better than MSG!) soundboard recordings from Drama tour?

[Jonk]

That was very common here in Finland too. Finnish broadcast corporation YLE was notorious for recording many great gigs, then wiping them without even broadcasting them. Among those lost tapes are Jethro Tull's 1970 gig in Helsinki and portions of Jimi Hendrix's '67 visit.



...And when BBC didn't lose them, Yes succesfully lost lots of recordings anyway.



That said, is there any good quality ( - better than MSG!) soundboard recordings from Drama tour?
Doctor Flang. From what Geoff Downes told me the MSG was the best recording there was of the Drama line up sadly. However on the recent live boxed set it seemed that Steve Howe does have a soundboard recording of the very same gig so perhaps at some pouint it will surface. Apparently Steve Howe is the Yes archivist and he has loads of stuff in his archive. I would imagine however it would only ever surface on officially sanctioned albums or releases..

I do have a few audience recordings of the Drama line up but no soundboards stuff. I took Geoff Downes through some of the recordings during an interview I did with him and he was quite amused by them particularly the Rainbow gig in London. I still think the Drama line up is way iundervalued in the Yes canon. Shame really as the album and the band then were very good:headset:

[Earl Grey]

Doctor Flang. From what Geoff Downes told me the MSG was the best recording there was of the Drama line up sadly. However on the recent live boxed set it seemed that Steve Howe does have a soundboard recording of the very same gig so perhaps at some pouint it will surface.

There were questions, among members of the band, whether they even wanted to even release the DRAMA tracks we finally DID hear on 'The Word Is Live', ...due to the somewhat 'iffy' sonics therein.

I always felt it was better to have a so-so soundboard recording from such a rare period, and that that was preferable to the inevitable audience recordings, which have always been available to the ardent Yes collector...

Granted: YES was in flux at the time. Completing the tour was paramount. Alas, recording a viable document wasn't the first thing on YES's 'To Do' list at the time.

I would love it if the band saw fit to release the full MSG Dramashow...

I'm guessing we'll have to make-do with the songs on 'The Word Is Live', and our audience tapes... Damn.

EG:yesbird:

[Earl Grey]

Doctor Flang. From what Geoff Downes told me the MSG was the best recording there was of the Drama line up sadly. However on the recent live boxed set it seemed that Steve Howe does have a soundboard recording of the very same gig so perhaps at some pouint it will surface.

There were questions among members of the band, whether they even wanted to even release the DRAMA tracks we finally DID get on 'The Word Is Live', ...due to the somewhat 'iffy' sonics therein.

I've always felt that it was better to have the cassette tape soundboard recording from this rare period, than just the inevitable audience recordings, which have always been available to the ardent Yes collector...

YES was in flux at the time. Completing the tour was paramount, recording a viable document wasn't the first thing on the band's 'To Do' list at the time.

I would love it if the band saw fit to release the full MSG Dramashow...

I'm guessing we'll have to make-do with the songs on 'The Word Is Live', and our collective audience tapes... Damn.

But: One never knows, and never say never.

EG:yesbird:

[Jonk]

There were questions, among members of the band, whether they even wanted to even release the DRAMA tracks we finally DID hear on 'The Word Is Live', ...due to the somewhat 'iffy' sonics therein.

I always felt it was better to have a so-so soundboard recording from such a rare period, and that that was preferable to the inevitable audience recordings, which have always been available to the ardent Yes collector...

Granted: YES was in flux at the time. Completing the tour was paramount. Alas, recording a viable document wasn't the first thing on YES's 'To Do' list at the time.

I would love it if the band saw fit to release the full MSG Dramashow...

I'm guessing we'll have to make-do with the songs on 'The Word Is Live', and our audience tapes... Damn.

EG:yesbird:
There was enough interest in America at the time for a live broadcast but in England the wheel really came off and in fairness the band were actually very good. Unfortunately some fans couldn't take the idea of Yes without Jon Anderson and so spent a lot of the time shouting abuse at Trevor Horn.

In Manchester it was plain embarrassing and according to Geoff Downes the band had a bit of a rough time in London at the Rainbow. To be honest I have never understood why someone would spend money on a ticket to a concert to merely spend time barracking the act although it does happen. Happened to Deep Purple in Liverpool in 1976 when Tommy Bolin was in the band so the Yes situation is not an isolated incident.

If as was promised a few years ago Yes intend to release their own official bootlegs then maybe the full MSG show will come out; until then we have to make do with the audience tapes:headset:

[Cygnus X-1]

I found the part two on DVD in a famouse french store called "Fnac", I was really sruprised!

I has only the part one, on digipack, so now I have the full concert. It's one of the best Yes dvd I have, a great show, great songs! But of course, there's still a problem :) Rick Wakeman is missing even if I really love the Patrick Moraz performance on Relayer!

[webbcity]

Was QPR ever broadcasted? And if it was, did BBC remix the audio?

I'm sure others have noticed this, I'm not offering any new info here...but clearly the current version of this video comes from TWO different sources. One is the edited version that was broadcast (as JonK mentioned in another post), and the other was possibly the "newly found" (at the time) footage which isn't mixed.

Quite a while ago I had a tape which contained an edited form of the program from a Japanese broadcast...it was less than an hour I think, less than half of the whole show. The audio was mixed properly, but there were a couple of moments of severe wow & flutter...I remember one in particular when they hit the last chord of Ritual. Then the laserdisc came out with the whole show. The wow & flutter was still there, but the audio was a little clearer and the video much clearer. In fact the "newly added" songs had video quality that was absolutely crystal clear...but the audio mix was completely off. Compare Ritual and Sound Chaser and you'll see what I mean.

Ritual: video is pretty good and audio is mixed properly
Sound Chaser: video and audio are substantially clearer/crisper than on Ritual, but the audio mix is screwed up

So it really comes back again to finding the master tapes with the separate tracks...we'd have clear video and properly mixed audio on the whole thing.

[CerebralJazz85]

holy shnikes! I just saw Your is no disgrace - 1975 QPR. And at the end of the vid, they ROLL CREDITS, so is this from a previous release? If this thing is coming out with remastered sound and visuals I'm all over it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klb2aUguuj4

[Jonk]

holy shnikes! I just saw Your is no disgrace - 1975 QPR. And at the end of the vid, they ROLL CREDITS, so is this from a previous release? If this thing is coming out with remastered sound and visuals I'm all over it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klb2aUguuj4

Yes Live At QPR is only available as a bootleg with the standard sound. There are no plans at this moment to release it officially but as with most things in the music business that may change. It really is a case of watch this space I suppose but the version advertised on some websites is definitely a bootleg albeit quite a classy one:headset:

[YESSOUP]

Yes Live At QPR is only available as a bootleg with the standard sound. There are no plans at this moment to release it officially but as with most things in the music business that may change. It really is a case of watch this space I suppose but the version advertised on some websites is definitely a bootleg albeit quite a classy one:headset:

This guy claims to have the direct Japanese laser disc DVD transfer and also tampered with the frequencies in lieu of no multitrack access in order to improve the QPR concert sound. He's also put other Yes stuff from the 70s on it as well as Beat Club (i think) to make a 70s Yes DVD set.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLJNtZ65UaU

lol, he's also made a trailer to support it. Pretty cool I think, looks like he's going all out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTSLXraLvRk

[Jonk]

This guy claims to have the direct Japanese laser disc DVD transfer and also tampered with the frequencies in lieu of no multitrack access in order to improve the QPR concert sound. He's also put other Yes stuff from the 70s on it as well as Beat Club (i think) to make a 70s Yes DVD set.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLJNtZ65UaU

lol, he's also made a trailer to support it. Pretty cool I think, looks like he's going all out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTSLXraLvRk
The current bootleg is the very best audio and visual that I have seen from this particular performance. I would imagine that if the master tapes were ever found and a restoration carried out this would be one of the best archive releases to hit the market.

Another strange thing is that Yessongs II which was filmed during the 1976 tour has never surfaced ever on any trading forum or bootleg site. Apparently Brian Lane didn't like what was filmed and argued with the directors of the film and they disappeared with the film and it hasn't been seen since. Now there is a film I would love to see even in its rough unedited state:headset:

[Bluegrunt]

Hi JonK

I love your posts. When you say "the current bootleg" do you mean the one offered on play.com as coming out later this month? Are you saying it is better than the Japanese pressings from the 90s? If the sound is at all improved it may be worth a look?

I also note your comments from back in July when you asked how people could go to the Drama show and barrack the band. I was at the Rainbow in 1980 and the memory of that night lives with me to this day. Quite probably it was because it was the end of a strenuous tour, but I recall Trevor Horn's voice being completely shot. When he tried to sing AYAI it was too much for me and for a number of people sitting nearby. That show was awful, and not only because of Trevor.

Anyway, I just hope the boys can get it together for one last tour.

[Hed G.]

Another strange thing is that Yessongs II which was filmed during the 1976 tour has never surfaced ever on any trading forum or bootleg site. Apparently Brian Lane didn't like what was filmed and argued with the directors of the film and they disappeared with the film and it hasn't been seen since. Now there is a film I would love to see even in its rough unedited state:headset:

AMEN to that! All we need is for Brian Lane to cough up the
filmakers' names. We'll find them. We have our ways...

[Jonk]

Hi JonK

I love your posts. When you say "the current bootleg" do you mean the one offered on play.com as coming out later this month? Are you saying it is better than the Japanese pressings from the 90s? If the sound is at all improved it may be worth a look?

I also note your comments from back in July when you asked how people could go to the Drama show and barrack the band. I was at the Rainbow in 1980 and the memory of that night lives with me to this day. Quite probably it was because it was the end of a strenuous tour, but I recall Trevor Horn's voice being completely shot. When he tried to sing AYAI it was too much for me and for a number of people sitting nearby. That show was awful, and not only because of Trevor.

Anyway, I just hope the boys can get it together for one last tour.
Hi Bluegrunt
The version coming out on Play.Com is definitely a bootleg. I have a two disc set in two different covers. Again definitely a bootleg as the artwork carries pictures of Rick Wakeman rather than patrick Moraz which is a big giveaway. As regards my copies they are from the far east and the picture quality and the audio quality is improved athough the audio is still a strange mix that seems to get better by the second disc. Whether you buy it or not is obviously up to you as I don't know whether the version that Play .Com is the same as mine but certainly mine is the best copy I have seen and I have had copies of this as far back as 1987 on video.

With reference to the Yes gig at The Rainbow I was told about the barracking by Geoff Downes and also Chris Squire on seperate occasions. I saw Yes on that tour twice and they were actually pretty good, not brilliant but certainly they didn't play badly and Trevor bless him did his best. Chris Squire however told me that during the tour in Texas that Trevor Horn sang And You And I better than Jon Anderson.

I think that Trevor's problem lay in the fact that he was in reality more comfortable in a studio as the Drama album proves. I still really rate that album. However on the road Trevor wasn't consistent enough to be on top form every night. Bear in mind that Jon Anderson had toured extensively with Yes before he left and as such was used to the on the road rigours that affect vocalists and Trevor at that time was a touring newbie. The Drama tour was an ectensive tour in a short space of time and for anyone not used to touring this would place a great strain on the vocalist.

I think the Drama album and tour was ultimately a great experiment to move Yes forward. bear in mind that Yes could have just split after Jon and Rick left. There are also many who say that it also paved the way for 90125 and the survival of Yes up to the present. That it failed is to be seen as a shame:headset:

[Jonk]

AMEN to that! All we need is for Brian Lane to cough up the
filmakers' names. We'll find them. We have our ways...
I might be wrong but I am sure that Chris Squire mentioned they were Canadian. Don't hold me to that but no one has seen hide nor hair of them since 1976 and I find it odd that they haven't approached Yes or their management to offer them the film as over thirty years on I am sure that some restoration is possible.

Apparently it was very dark but how dark is that? The original Yessongs is not the best lit film in the world is it. So unless these two film makers suddenly turn up it looks like Yessongs II will remain somewhat of a Holy Grail:headset:

[Bluegrunt]

If you're looking for dark 70s music videos take a look at the recently released Springsteen 1975 set from the Odeon Hammersmith. Parts of it are black on a black background but the performance is mesmerising. (Did I mention I was there?)

[Hed G.]

I might be wrong but I am sure that Chris Squire mentioned they were Canadian. Don't hold me to that but no one has seen hide nor hair of them since 1976 and I find it odd that they haven't approached Yes or their management to offer them the film as over thirty years on I am sure that some restoration is possible.

Apparently it was very dark but how dark is that? The original Yessongs is not the best lit film in the world is it. So unless these two film makers suddenly turn up it looks like Yessongs II will remain somewhat of a Holy Grail:headset:

All I need is their names. Even just one name...

[Bluegrunt]

Chris Squire however told me that during the tour in Texas that Trevor Horn sang And You And I better than Jon Anderson.

Hmm. No wonder Jon and Chris apparently don't get on! "Hey Jon, you know that signature Yes tune off CTTE, I think Trevor sang it better than you."

There are also many who say that it also paved the way for 90125 and the survival of Yes up to the present.

I agree that the Drama line up allowed the flame to continue. Personally I didn't enjoy that show, and I don't really like the Drama album, I certainly hardly ever listen to it. But I see the importance of that time in the history of Yes and, as you say, they could have split up altogether. So on balance I'm grateful, but it doesn't change my horror memories of that show!

[Jonk]

If you're looking for dark 70s music videos take a look at the recently released Springsteen 1975 set from the Odeon Hammersmith. Parts of it are black on a black background but the performance is mesmerising. (Did I mention I was there?)

Actually I was there at that gig as well and I know what you mean. I still love Yessongs although technically it leaves a lot to be desired. The same goes for The Wall live at Earls Court 1981 i was at that show as well. It always amuses me when Pink Floyd say the Wall was never filmed because I have a copy and I reckon it CAN be restored and released. They just don't want to. If the finished Yessongs II film is anywhere I can tell you that Patrick Moraz Jon Anderson and Chris Squire have not seen it so who knows where it is or if it will ever surface:headset:

[Jonk]

Hmm. No wonder Jon and Chris apparently don't get on! "Hey Jon, you know that signature Yes tune off CTTE, I think Trevor sang it better than you."



I agree that the Drama line up allowed the flame to continue. Personally I didn't enjoy that show, and I don't really like the Drama album, I certainly hardly ever listen to it. But I see the importance of that time in the history of Yes and, as you say, they could have split up altogether. So on balance I'm grateful, but it doesn't change my horror memories of that show!
Well he only did it better than Jon the once which brings us back to the matter of consistency.As regards the Drama album I still love it and the shows were pretty good...Well the ones I saw anyway although I think there were some people there unhappy because Jon wasn't in the band...So knowing that why did they go?

I have been to bad gigs though, I think everyone has. The worse I saw was Deep Purple with Tommy Bolin at the Liverpool Empire. That was a shame as I loved both Tommy Bolin and Deep Purple but at that gig the clash of styles was too wide so perhaps I can see where you are coming from on the Drama gig. Musically however I thought the band during the Drama era were still very strong. Geoff Downes is an incredible player and musician:headset:

[Hed G.]

... If the finished Yessongs II film is anywhere I can tell you that Patrick Moraz Jon Anderson and Chris Squire have not seen it so who knows where it is or if it will ever surface:headset:

Is there any chance of finding out those Canadian dudes' names?

[Jonk]

Is there any chance of finding out those Canadian dudes' names?
Well next time I speak to either Chris or Jon or Patrick I will ask but perhaps you should ask Brian Lane who commissioned and canned the film ultimately. Perhaps even he can't remember. It is over thirty years ago now. I honestly think this is beyond the reach of anyone save for the guys who filmed it and I find it odd that they haven't popped up in recent years or anytime in fact in the last thirty years particularly with the advent of video and DVD to offer this film to the band or management or even to anyone who might possibly want to put it out. I think it is lost sadly

[Hed G.]

Well next time I speak to either Chris or Jon or Patrick I will ask but perhaps you should ask Brian Lane who commissioned and canned the film ultimately. Perhaps even he can't remember. It is over thirty years ago now. I honestly think this is beyond the reach of anyone save for the guys who filmed it and I find it odd that they haven't popped up in recent years or anytime in fact in the last thirty years particularly with the advent of video and DVD to offer this film to the band or management or even to anyone who might possibly want to put it out. I think it is lost sadly


I e-mailed Brian Lane about a year ago, and got a disinterested
denial of any knowlege of these guys, their whereabouts, or
even their names.

Maybe someone closer to the band, or even a band member should
make the inquiry?

[Jonk]

I e-mailed Brian Lane about a year ago, and got a disinterested
denial of any knowlege of these guys, their whereabouts, or
even their names.

Maybe someone closer to the band, or even a band member should
make the inquiry?
Unfortunately I reckon that the band would get exactly the same response from Brian Lane. I am not completely sure that the band and Brian Lane parted on good terms(I may be wrong of course but if there was no problem then he would still be managing them wouldn't he). The next time I have the opportunity I will ask. Let me check and see if Chris Squire mentioned the guys names in an interview I did with him:headset:

[Yesed]

That would be incredible if they released the MSG (and maybe the long Island Collosium) shows. I was at both, though wasnt a fan of the new lineup at the time. Ed

[dallasman]

Some Canadian dudes, eh? There might be some confusion as to which rumour applies to which apocryphal movie project, but I`ve always been of the impression that the Canadian connection is with the "Tales" show that was reportedly filmed. Pete Whipple has identified the 74-02-28 show in Detroit as the one that was filmed, although I`ve never seen anything to support this date (maybe somebody remembered there being cameras at the show, I don`t know). Here`s celebrated percussionist Alan White`s remarks on the matter:
"AW: I don't think TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS was ever really recorded as well as it could have been on tape, including video, film, or anything. In fact there's one guy who filmed it. He was a Canadian guy and I really don't know where the tape from that went to, and nobody does. The guy kind of went out of existence or something like that. So there is a copy of TOPOGRAPHIC somewhere. It was a Canadian guy who shot it and that still remains a mystery to everybody in the band, so there's something out there." (Alan was speaking to NFTE`s Mike Tiano on March 22nd 1993).
Other comments by band members (Steve, I think) has confirmed that a tape exists somewhere, and that the footage was dark.
The "Yessongs II" project is mentioned in "Yes: An Authorized Biography" by Dan Hedges, which was the first book on the band. No names are mentioned, and details are scant, but the project was shelved for some reason. As far as I can remember, there is no mention of this footage (if, indeed, filming ever began) being too dark or otherwise unacceptable on technical grounds, so the "too dark" problem most likely applies to the Tales movie. These two films have been speculated about and hunted for for years and years and years, and nothing`s ever come of it. It is extremely frustrating that nobody within Yes` current or past managements seems to have any record of either project, or any idea as to the identity of the producers/directors, their whereabouts or where the footage is. One would expect a professional management for a major rock act to keep receipts, contracts and the like on record for future reference, but it could just be that they can`t be bothered to investigate. I`ve heard about Brian Lane`s response before, and it`s pretty disheartening. Doesn`t he take any pride in the fact that the band he managed for all those years still have hordes of enthusiastic fans that care enough about the music to initiate actual investigations into these lost tapes? In a perfect world, with the right Yes management, we would have not one, not two, but six volumes in the Yessongs series:
- The complete "Sounding Out" footage from 1971
- The Yessongs we know and love (restored and expanded to include Siberian Khatru and Starship Trooper)
- The Tales Show
- QPR `75, restored
- "Yessongs 2"/1976 Tour footage
- The complete Philadelphia `79 concert, restored/remastered
This constitutes my List Of Demands, and I personally wil not be entirely happy until all the aforementioned titles are available at my local music store or via mail order.
Not holding my breath, though.

[Jonk]

Some Canadian dudes, eh? There might be some confusion as to which rumour applies to which apocryphal movie project, but I`ve always been of the impression that the Canadian connection is with the "Tales" show that was reportedly filmed. Pete Whipple has identified the 74-02-28 show in Detroit as the one that was filmed, although I`ve never seen anything to support this date (maybe somebody remembered there being cameras at the show, I don`t know). Here`s celebrated percussionist Alan White`s remarks on the matter:
"AW: I don't think TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS was ever really recorded as well as it could have been on tape, including video, film, or anything. In fact there's one guy who filmed it. He was a Canadian guy and I really don't know where the tape from that went to, and nobody does. The guy kind of went out of existence or something like that. So there is a copy of TOPOGRAPHIC somewhere. It was a Canadian guy who shot it and that still remains a mystery to everybody in the band, so there's something out there." (Alan was speaking to NFTE`s Mike Tiano on March 22nd 1993).
Other comments by band members (Steve, I think) has confirmed that a tape exists somewhere, and that the footage was dark.
The "Yessongs II" project is mentioned in "Yes: An Authorized Biography" by Dan Hedges, which was the first book on the band. No names are mentioned, and details are scant, but the project was shelved for some reason. As far as I can remember, there is no mention of this footage (if, indeed, filming ever began) being too dark or otherwise unacceptable on technical grounds, so the "too dark" problem most likely applies to the Tales movie. These two films have been speculated about and hunted for for years and years and years, and nothing`s ever come of it. It is extremely frustrating that nobody within Yes` current or past managements seems to have any record of either project, or any idea as to the identity of the producers/directors, their whereabouts or where the footage is. One would expect a professional management for a major rock act to keep receipts, contracts and the like on record for future reference, but it could just be that they can`t be bothered to investigate. I`ve heard about Brian Lane`s response before, and it`s pretty disheartening. Doesn`t he take any pride in the fact that the band he managed for all those years still have hordes of enthusiastic fans that care enough about the music to initiate actual investigations into these lost tapes? In a perfect world, with the right Yes management, we would have not one, not two, but six volumes in the Yessongs series:
- The complete "Sounding Out" footage from 1971
- The Yessongs we know and love (restored and expanded to include Siberian Khatru and Starship Trooper)
- The Tales Show
- QPR `75, restored
- "Yessongs 2"/1976 Tour footage
- The complete Philadelphia `79 concert, restored/remastered
This constitutes my List Of Demands, and I personally wil not be entirely happy until all the aforementioned titles are available at my local music store or via mail order.
Not holding my breath, though.

Well that is quite a list and I would certainly buy them. i do know that there were at least two companies at one point wanting to release both QPR and Sounding Out on DVD Whether anything will come of that who knows.

As regards the Yessongs II from 1976. Apparently Brian Lane sacked the film makers without paying them which is probably why they kept hold of the footage that had already been shot so there wouldn't have been any receipts as no one was paid. I still find it strange that no footage from this show has ever escaped onto the market, fan or commercial and neither has any of the Topographic footage which also seems strange when you consider that Yes still has a huge audience ready and willing to buy this stuff if commercially released. You would have thought with the advent of Video and now DVD that the film makers might have wanted to get some sort of return on the footage they have in their possession:headset:

[YesJen357]

Well that is quite a list and I would certainly buy them. i do know that there were at least two companies at one point wanting to release both QPR and Sounding Out on DVD Whether anything will come of that who knows.

I bet I'm not in the minority when it comes to hoping for these two to be released!

[SilverShoes]

In a perfect world, with the right Yes management, we would have not one, not two, but six volumes in the Yessongs series:
- The complete "Sounding Out" footage from 1971
- The Yessongs we know and love (restored and expanded to include Siberian Khatru and Starship Trooper)
- The Tales Show
- QPR `75, restored
- "Yessongs 2"/1976 Tour footage
- The complete Philadelphia `79 concert, restored/remastered
This constitutes my List Of Demands, and I personally wil not be entirely happy until all the aforementioned titles are available at my local music store or via mail order.
Not holding my breath, though.

It's entirely likely the stuff you're asking for no longer exists. What little I know of the film and TV industry suggests that for many years, what wasn't used in the final production, eventually got thrown out. If a TV program (let's say a Doctor Who episode) got edited, either for content or length reasons, back in the 70's, the unused portion was just thrown out.

Why?

Because back then, nobody knew the video revolution was gonna take place, and that someday everyone (or almost everyone) would have a VCR (and later, a DVD player) and would pay for:

a. old TV programs on VHS (and later, DVD)

and

b. for "restored" movies or TV programs

Here's a couple examples worth noting:

The movie The Blues Brothers was originally intended to be around 3 hours long, with an intermission in the middle. But Universal didn't believe in the project, they thought blues music was "too unhip" in the disco era and that the film had to kept down to a more "Mainstream friendly" (or whatever) length. So the film was edited down to something like 2 and a quarter hours.

Years later, when the film was acknowledged as a classic movie, some thought was put into releasing the original edit as a "director's cut", once that thing became fashionable. But they couldn't find it. It's been noted that all the outtakes and bloopers and so forth were "junked' back in the 80's, and it's feared the same thing was done with the original edit of the film (for those who wonder, the "extended" cut that appears on the DVD was created when an intermediate answer print-with apparently some material already cut, but still longer than the theatrical version-was found).

Another story relates to the movie The Last Days Of The Fillmore. In one of the Grateful Dead books I have, they interview a guy who tells of how the director had filmed entire sets of the bands that appear in that film. He had actually always intended to make a second movie, but could never get the funding. He carried around all of his rough footage for years, keeping it in storage, but in the 80's, he finally got to where he couldn't afford to hang onto material that, at the time, looked like it was never gonna get used. So he threw it ALL out.

As a side note: Jeff Stein confirms in the audio commentary on The Kids Are Alright DVD that the clip of The Who performing Young Man Blues that appears in that film was literally rescued from a dumpster, and that the footage taken from The Rolling Stones Rock And Roll Circus was apaprently found in Stones pianist Ian Stewart's barn!!!! Not the best place to store such material, but that's how it went.

My point being, in the case of things like QPR and the Philly 79 thing, be thankful we have those AT ALL. The BBC could have easily wiped the QPR thing (as they did with many TV programs, including episodes of my beloved Doctor Who) and we would only have still photos and crummy, out of focus 8mm films of the band from the Relayer tour. Ditto for the Sounding Out program (and in fact, I would bet dollars to donuts that what's in the Sounding Out program as it aired is all that's survived from that particular concert).

Likewise, Philly 79, since the band kinda split up before it could be released properly, could have easily had been tossed in a dumpster, and we'd never have seen it.

I hate to be such a downer, but this is the reality of these things. A lot of things get lost in one fashion or another, or turn out to be useless (reportedly, there's a Grateful Dead show in the UK that was filmed in the early 70's, but apparently before The Dead went on, someone decided to hand out acid to anyone who wanted it. Including the cameramen. The resulting footage was mostly of things like trees and grass and completley useless).

[Jonk]

It's entirely likely the stuff you're asking for no longer exists. What little I know of the film and TV industry suggests that for many years, what wasn't used in the final production, eventually got thrown out. If a TV program (let's say a Doctor Who episode) got edited, either for content or length reasons, back in the 70's, the unused portion was just thrown out.

Why?

Because back then, nobody knew the video revolution was gonna take place, and that someday everyone (or almost everyone) would have a VCR (and later, a DVD player) and would pay for:

a. old TV programs on VHS (and later, DVD)

and

b. for "restored" movies or TV programs

Here's a couple examples worth noting:

The movie The Blues Brothers was originally intended to be around 3 hours long, with an intermission in the middle. But Universal didn't believe in the project, they thought blues music was "too unhip" in the disco era and that the film had to kept down to a more "Mainstream friendly" (or whatever) length. So the film was edited down to something like 2 and a quarter hours.

Years later, when the film was acknowledged as a classic movie, some thought was put into releasing the original edit as a "director's cut", once that thing became fashionable. But they couldn't find it. It's been noted that all the outtakes and bloopers and so forth were "junked' back in the 80's, and it's feared the same thing was done with the original edit of the film (for those who wonder, the "extended" cut that appears on the DVD was created when an intermediate answer print-with apparently some material already cut, but still longer than the theatrical version-was found).

Another story relates to the movie The Last Days Of The Fillmore. In one of the Grateful Dead books I have, they interview a guy who tells of how the director had filmed entire sets of the bands that appear in that film. He had actually always intended to make a second movie, but could never get the funding. He carried around all of his rough footage for years, keeping it in storage, but in the 80's, he finally got to where he couldn't afford to hang onto material that, at the time, looked like it was never gonna get used. So he threw it ALL out.

As a side note: Jeff Stein confirms in the audio commentary on The Kids Are Alright DVD that the clip of The Who performing Young Man Blues that appears in that film was literally rescued from a dumpster, and that the footage taken from The Rolling Stones Rock And Roll Circus was apaprently found in Stones pianist Ian Stewart's barn!!!! Not the best place to store such material, but that's how it went.

My point being, in the case of things like QPR and the Philly 79 thing, be thankful we have those AT ALL. The BBC could have easily wiped the QPR thing (as they did with many TV programs, including episodes of my beloved Doctor Who) and we would only have still photos and crummy, out of focus 8mm films of the band from the Relayer tour. Ditto for the Sounding Out program (and in fact, I would bet dollars to donuts that what's in the Sounding Out program as it aired is all that's survived from that particular concert).

Likewise, Philly 79, since the band kinda split up before it could be released properly, could have easily had been tossed in a dumpster, and we'd never have seen it.

I hate to be such a downer, but this is the reality of these things. A lot of things get lost in one fashion or another, or turn out to be useless (reportedly, there's a Grateful Dead show in the UK that was filmed in the early 70's, but apparently before The Dead went on, someone decided to hand out acid to anyone who wanted it. Including the cameramen. The resulting footage was mostly of things like trees and grass and completley useless).

All of the above is quite possibly true. I have recently done work with the film director Tony Palmer and he told me that during the making of the film All My Loving he filmed an entire Who gig in America and an entire Jimi Hendrix gig. The only footage that remains is the footage that is in the film. The rest was just junked and thrown out. Hard to believe isn't it particularly as originally the film was made for the BBC.

Having said that there were technicians during the late sixties and seventies and probably beyond that actually saved copies of shows on video tape and moved them around the various BBC ofices in the UK in order that te tapes weren't wiped. so that is the reason that the BBC has much more stuff than they really deserve.

As regards the Yes material as I have said many times before Yes Live At QPR does exist in pretty good quality visually however the audio master tapes have been mislaid. The log says the BBC have them but when you go to the storage facillity and the tape location the tape is not there. Sadly that is true for so many tapes that BBC are supposed to have. Mick Ronson Live At The Rainbow was filmed for the Old Grey Whistle Test but unfortunately again while the film is in existence the audio portion is missing.

Now as regards the Yes QPR audio on the good side it could be that it has just been mis filed somewhere. On the bad side it could have been taped over. Sad but true.

As regards Sounding Out as far as I was aware the full concert wasn't filmed just segments of the show. That is the feeling amongst the Yes guys UI have spoken to. It is still a fascinating film however and captures Yes at what was a crucial period in their career. It could still be released with contemporary interviews aded as bonus material. Only time will tell I suppose:headset:

[SilverShoes]

All of the above is quite possibly true. I have recently done work with the film director Tony Palmer and he told me that during the making of the film All My Loving he filmed an entire Who gig in America and an entire Jimi Hendrix gig. The only footage that remains is the footage that is in the film. The rest was just junked and thrown out. Hard to believe isn't it particularly as originally the film was made for the BBC.

Yeah, I believe that was also mentioned in that Grateful Dead book (the interview in question was about the problems of finding these old programs and whatever unaired or unreleased footage for rebroadcast, video release, etc).

I think it's mentioned in the book that this is the way ALL the TV broadcasters were. They considerd anything that wasn't used in the finished film to be "surplus" or "not usable" or whatever, and it'd usually get tossed out.

It's interesting to note that apparently the same thing happened in recording studios. In one of the John Coltrane boxsets I have, there's a list of all the studio sessions he did with his "classic" quartet, and there's a LOT of sessions where apparently the tapes didn't survive. I inquired about this once, and someone said "Yeah, if they decided to not release something, then the tape was simply taped over for another session").

There's also a story I heard about how someone was cataloging the Sun Records masters, and found one tape, I forget who it was, but as he was listening to it, he got to the end of the tape, and heard a song playing BACKWARDS on the end of the tape. When he flipped it over, he found it was a hitherto unknown and apparently forgotten song recorded by Elvis back in 54 or whenever.

Back to the original point: one of the problems with British TV stuff in particular is, apparently they had very strict regulations about reruns. Because of deals that had been made with Equity (the actors union) and I think some of the other TV unions, they could literally only rebroadcast something once, and it had to be rebroadcast within three years, I think it was. So, without knowing about the home video market that was going to be coming along in a couple decades, a lot of ITV and BBC stuff was considered useless and was tossed out or taped over.

The point you make about stuff being recorded here and there is true, as I recall reading that some of the Doctor Who stuff from the early 70's, at least, that we do have, was the result of technicians making recordings of stuff, in an attempt to save them from being tossed out. There's also one episode of Doctor Who that got loaned to Blue Peter (a BBC kid's show) but the copy went missing, and it's theorized that someone connected to Blue Peter may have taken it home with them to save it from being destroyed.

[Going For The Fish]

Man, I LOVE how Chris' Rickenbacker sounds on the Beginning of "Into The Lens" from that MSG show. THAT is one of the reasons that I decided to play bass all those many years ago..
THAT SOUND!

[YesJen357]

OK..So who has purchased this and can tell me whether it is any better than the original Jap release?
Er, in other words, - is it worth the asking price?

[YesJen357]

Come-on...Surely someone's got it and can post a review?

[dallasman]

Thanks to SilverShoes and Jonk for some interesting post. I agree that there probably isn`t much cause for optimism regarding most, or all, of those items. I`d like to point out an interesting article though. It`s from Melody Maker of October 1973. Link to the YesMuseum:
http://yesmuseum.org/melo73.html
Interesting quote on Rick`s show: "the show will be filmed for video cassettes, to be used when they become "commercially viable.""

I`m guessing the broadcast referred to in the other article never happened, but still...
Anyway, this thread is about QPR, and I only have a single disc DVD-R version with the usual sound problems, so I won`t take up any more space.

[Jonk]

Come-on...Surely someone's got it and can post a review?
The Versions I have are from the Far East and are in two volumes
PM Me for more info:headset:

[Jonk]

Thanks to SilverShoes and Jonk for some interesting post. I agree that there probably isn`t much cause for optimism regarding most, or all, of those items. I`d like to point out an interesting article though. It`s from Melody Maker of October 1973. Link to the YesMuseum:
http://yesmuseum.org/melo73.html
Interesting quote on Rick`s show: "the show will be filmed for video cassettes, to be used when they become "commercially viable.""

I`m guessing the broadcast referred to in the other article never happened, but still...
Anyway, this thread is about QPR, and I only have a single disc DVD-R version with the usual sound problems, so I won`t take up any more space.
The most recent versions that are doing the rounds are the best quality both in sound and vision that I have seen and unless the multi tracks become available(Which I seriously doubt) then this is as good as it gets:headset:

[Full Tilt Boogie]

Such a pity about the sound quality of this QPR gig recording - a stella set list and they lose it in the mix? Heigh-ho.

Luckily, I've got a number of boots where Moraz plays out of his socks. Pity some of them weren't committed to official recordings.

[drewsiph76]

"It's entirely likely the stuff you're asking for no longer exists. What little Iknow of the film and TV industry suggests that for many years, what wasn't used in the final production, eventually got thrown out. If a TV program (let's say a Doctor Who episode) got edited, either for content or length reasons, back in the 70's, the unused portion was just thrown out. "

Sadly this is very true consider the fact that the first ten years of The Tonight Show w/ Johnny Carson was recorded over to save money on tape stock. Also you should watch the documentary done on The Who DVD "The Kids Are Alright". :headset: :headset:
The director of that film says he literally discovered some of the concert footage he used for the film in garbage cans.

[Ash]

Hi all,
I have the good fortune to work in an academic library, and a student here, for reasons best not gone into, has requested from our archives a complete run of the magazine Radio Times from 1970 to 1985.
I should probably explain that the Radio Times was, and is, a weekly TV listings magazine originally published by the BBC but now semi-independent. I still buy it every week!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_times

http://www.radiotimes.com/

I well remember seeing Yes several times on the UK Tour of 1975, twice in Leicester, and once each in once each in Newcastle and Manchester. I also went along to the QPR show, and then in August when they headlined the Reading Festival (boy, was it muddy! 5 of us travelling back to Leicester caked in evil-smelling mud in a cramped Hillman Imp.....happy days!)

My memories of the QPR show are a bit thin to be honest; apart from it being 33 years ago (Eeeeek!), I had, at the time, only recently discovered the seductive alure of cheap wine........I prefer more expensive wine these days, and only red.
What I do remember vividly, however, falling between the end of the UK Tour proper and the Reading show, was the broadcast by the BBC of the second half of the QPR show as the final edition of the summer series of The Old Grey Whistle Test. And I have the relevant page of the Radio Times open in front of me. Not a glossy at the time, the paper is of newsprint quality, and is showing its age.

Saturday July 26th, 1975
On BBC2 at 11.10pm: The Old Grey Whistle Test
"The last in the present series features Yes at QPR. Highlights from their concert at the Queen's Park Rangers' football ground on 10 May 19752

The programme director was Tom Corcoran, and the producer was Michael Appleton.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0259795/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Grey_Whistle_Test

There is a b/w picture of Steve Howe in frenzy mode, playing what looks like his 335 (definitely not the 175; this pictured axe is a pale-top semi) in the top right quarter of the page. The tag to the photo is "Yes! It's Steve Howe at QPR in The Old Grey Whistle Test 11.10".

They only showed the second half of the show; if I remember correctly, we joined proceedings during Long Distance Runaround, and it ran on to the end of Sweet Dreams. I don't remember Your is no Disgrace at all. And to be honest I can't remember that being played at any of the shows on that tour that I was at.


And that's about it. I took me half an hour to track down the right volume of this thing, and it's actually a bit of a thrill to be looking at it again all those years ago.
I remember having to persuade my parents to let me watch it, they weren't keen.......

Best wishes,
Ash

[InverYes]

Great find Ash!

Can you scan it and post it ?

[Ash]

Hi,
I wish I could scan it but, firstly, I'm not sure how to do that and post it and, secondly, I finish for the Easter hols in about 2.5 hours (yippee!). I see if I can get someone at work to help me out next week when I come back.

Relatedly, I can remember a feature in one of the Sunday newspaper magazines in, I think, 1976, about Jon and the recording of Olias. If anyone has access to those archives, that would be great. I recall it being several pages with colour pictures of Jon in the same dark green caped coat he wears in the little b/w photo on the Olias cover.
It may have been the Sunday Telegraph or the Observer. I don't think it was The Times.
If anyone can shed any light on that, I'd be interested.

Ash

[3derek7]

i've had this official DVD with dolby digital 5.1 surround sound for about 1 year (volumes one and two)

you can find it on E-BAY real cheap

[robusan]

Alan White mentioned to me that this film was being re-issued with proper sound. Let's hope!!! I have to believe that somewhere there is a multitrack soundtrack of this show - if they bothered to film it so well they must have a better audio master!

[Melissa]

When and where did Alan White mention this to you?

[robusan]

Alan mentioned this to me in Nov. 2007 at a drum clinic at my music shop. I'm really hoping the sound is fixed!

[Doctor Flang]

Alan mentioned this to me in Nov. 2007 at a drum clinic at my music shop. I'm really hoping the sound is fixed!

Well, that would be almost too good to true!

Anyway, IF they have found the original multitracks (or even a better quality vintage mixes), why did they use the crappy mix of "Sweet Dreams" on The Word Is Live?

[3derek7]

like i said before...i have two originals of the QPR concert volume 1 ands 2 in Dolby-Digital 5.1 surround sound. i got months ago and E-Bay has them dirt cheap.NO....these are not bootlegs...official as can be...and the sound is awesome

Well worth the small amount of money paid for these shows!!

[Doctor Flang]

like i said before...i have two originals of the QPR concert volume 1 ands 2 in Dolby-Digital 5.1 surround sound. i got months ago and E-Bay has them dirt cheap.NO....these are not bootlegs...official as can be...and the sound is awesome

Are the sounds balance problems fixed on the first songs?

I have the recent semi-official Masterplan 1 & 2:s, and while they're better than the old VHS (and 5.1. option), it's still the same old crappy mix.

[Bluegrunt]

Don't know if the sound has been fixed - but they are a lot cheaper than when I bought them off ebay many years ago... I wonder if this is a bootleg operation?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YES-Live-1975-QPR-Vol-1-2-Double-DVD-SET-Sealed_W0QQitemZ310039183104QQcmdZViewItem

[Doctor Flang]

Don't know if the sound has been fixed - but they are a lot cheaper than when I bought them off ebay many years ago... I wonder if this is a bootleg operation?

Yes. It is a bootleg operation. These days legally complicated releases (as QPR, some european Hendrix-stuff, Beat Club etc.) are usually "semi-official".

Oh, by the way, just because there is an 5.1. option, it doesn't mean it's remixed.