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View Full Version : Why I did not join Yes - by Eddie Jobson



umgekehrt
03-23-2007, 05:07 PM
Re: YES
Author: EJ
Date: 03-17-07 18:15

OK folks... you asked:

I have been thinking about my hesitation in answering in detail about my time with Yes, and have concluded that a full explanation would be incomplete without some understanding of the social background of the London music scene in the ‘70s and ‘80s. To give a thorough and honest answer, I would have to get into some very personal recollections and history… and I have decided that too many personal details, especially of others, would serve nobody well. So, after 23 years of silence on the matter, here is a somewhat abridged version:

I remember, around 1974 and still a fairly fresh teenage transplant to “the South,” observing there to be quite a self-congratulatory social club (of which I was not a member) of successful musicians, moneyed hoorays and fashionistas occupying the trendy upper-end London social tier. They drove Bentleys and Aston Martins, lived in very large houses in Surrey (or trendy apartments within a stone’s throw of Knightsbridge or Chelsea), belonged to the same charities, and met one another for lengthy alcohol-soaked lunches and dinners at London’s most tony restaurants and private clubs. A small subset of this crowd was a sorority of ‘group wives’ who spent large amounts of their husbands’ money shopping on the Kings Road and who effervesced at sharing a charity event with Princess Fergie or being invited to a garden party at McCartney’s mansion.

As a young musician, this social environment formed much of the elite backdrop to the world of the successful ‘art’ bands (Roxy, Genesis, Floyd, Yes, etc…) and I remember vividly—even as Roxy were at the top of their game and at the top of the charts—a strong sense of estrangement from this self-impressed and moneyed social clique. As naïve as it may have been, I really was in it for the music.

However, my Roxy association did allow me some lesser place in the club, and my talent gave rise to many requests for my musical participation, including one call, in 1974, to assess my interest in replacing the newly departed Rick Wakeman in Yes. My impression of Yes was that they were a musically very impressive (and of course, extremely successful) band, but that they, too, were hugely impressed with their own status and were living on a lavishly grand scale. There also was that hippie/cosmic/druggie side that I knew would likely make it even harder for me to connect with them socially. For several years, I had seen Chris Squire showily driving around town in his huge and very distinctive maroon Bentley like some aristocratic Lord, and it seemed obvious that, as dismissively as Roxy and their camarilla were treating me, the Yes milieu would be even more unfriendly to this Northern teenager – so I boldly conveyed my ‘lack of interest’ in the Yes gig (in actual fact, I was somewhat excited by the concept of playing with Yes at their peak, but my instincts told me this would be an unwelcoming situation).

Fast forward almost six years… I had extricated myself from that disturbingly self-important London scene completely, from EG Management and Sun Artists (Yes’ management—who co-managed ‘UK’) and had happily relocated to the U.S., permanently removing myself from what I found to be an uncharitable world of supercilious people and expensive drug habits. Around the same time, I also disbanded U.K.—as part of the same purge. It was a fresh start, and the Green Album would be my solo venture as an independent free-spirit, surrounded by new friends—dare I say ‘all good people,’ with similar values to mine.

However, in early 1983, toward the end of the Green Album period, I received a call from an executive with Atlantic Records who was with Chris Squire and his new band “Cinema” in London. Despite my complete lack of interest in joining Squire’s new band, the phone conversation went on for several hours as he virtually begged me to participate on their new album (the record that would become “90215”) . This time my ‘lack of interest’ was real, I literally had zero enthusiasm for being in Squire’s band back in London. So original Yes keyboardist Tony Kaye was invited in for the album recording (which also apparently didn’t work out either, as he departed at the producer’s request after a very short period, leaving the keyboard duties to the production team.)

Later that year, with the Green Album finally completed, I happened to be visiting London as part of a promotional tour when I received a message (in the U.S.) that ‘Cinema’ was now ‘Yes,’ Jon Anderson had joined the band again, and that the album had come out really well. Oh, and they still needed a keyboard player... When they found out I was actually in London, new boy Trevor Rabin arranged to come round to play me the finished album. Trevor Horn (my favourite producer at the time) had done a fantastic job. All in all, though musically a little superficial, it was a fresh and contemporary recording, and with the ‘Yes’ name, a potential hit song (“Owner of a Lonely Heart”), Atlantic Records, and a well-funded support team behind it, it was clearly destined for considerably more commercial success than my struggling Green Album. With unlimited amounts of money flying around, my living in Connecticut was no problem; Jon was living in France, and Rabin and the new manager were living in Los Angeles. After all these years, maybe it was time for me to finally join Yes?

A couple of days later, we got together in a rehearsal room and thrashed through a few tunes, including ‘Roundabout’ (actually not knowing the song too well, I had to figure out Rick’s tricky keyboard parts on the spot – no easy task). But everyone seemed happy, so I returned to the U.S. as a full member of Yes and with a world tour only two or three months away. There was virtually no contact with anyone for several weeks as I learned all the Yes material in my home studio, although I did attend the mastering of the album with Rabin in New York. In fact, now I think about it, not one single band member ever called me, for any reason, during my entire stint with the group (or since).

The illusion of ‘equal membership’ soon became apparently false, especially once the filming of the “Owner of a Lonely Heart” video took place. Lord Squire’s indulgences (and the ubiquitous Bentley) were back in my face, and money was being squandered at an alarming rate. It was time-warp back to the 1970s. Roadies followed you around making sure you never had to lift even the smallest bag, and Chris was insisting on a private Boeing 707 for the tour! The grand lifestyle was being funded once again and egos were newly inflated. Despite my considerable experiences with Roxy, Zappa, UK, and Tull (a wonderful group of guys who treated me with considerable respect), and with more than 30 albums and a self-managed solo career under my belt, no one was interested in any wisdom I may have been able to impart, on any subject… even on the keyboard rig design which had already been decided upon. It was an inflated ‘Spinal Tap’ on so many levels, and I had unwittingly been sucked back into almost the same world of disregard that I had rejected so many years earlier. But I had made a commitment and I wanted to see it through.

Several weeks later, back in the U.S. where I continued to work on the considerable Yes repertoire, I did finally receive a phone call from someone—it was the manager who had been given the unceremonious task of informing me that Tony Kaye was re-joining the group and would be sharing keyboard duties with me. No discussion, no conferring… a done deal. And the reason? They needed three original members to put to rest a dispute with Brian Lane (their old manager), Steve Howe and Rick Wakeman regarding the legitimacy of the new band using the ‘Yes’ name. My youthful instincts were reawakened, there were red flags waving, and sirens going off... why was I doing this exactly? Still no call from anyone in the band, no discussions of alternate remedies, no apologies, just take it or leave it… so I hearkened to the words of their own song and chose to ‘leave it.’

Of course, the album and world tour went on to enormous success; Tony Kaye’s playing was supplemented by another player hidden off-stage; and the embarrassingly lame video had to be edited at the insistence of the BBC (to remove the disgusting ‘maggot’ scene), during which time they also removed as many of my scenes as possible.

Thanks, guys. All in all, the most disrespectful and unpleasant of all my band experiences (as brief as it was), and, with the occasional derisive remark from Squire or Allan White still showing up on the internet, one that still causes me undeserved anguish, embarrassment, and regret.

Post-script 1: The above description of the smug coterie that made up much of the British music-business elite in the ‘70s and ‘80s also serves the purpose of explaining much of the ill-feeling left percolating in the memories of more than a few of us more music-focused professionals. It also explains, in some part, the continuingly rude behaviour of some of that scene’s most indulgent subscribers (not mentioning any particular Arschlock by name, of course). It is ironic that those most included in that most exclusionary clique, now seem to be the most embittered and malicious.

Post-script 2: Some might ask why I would have a Yes page on the website. My answer is that I don’t have a category for ‘Bands I Didn’t Join and Should Have’ or for ‘Bands I Did Join and Shouldn’t Have.’ It was not a Guest Appearance; I was a member; there is a long history of connectivity (from Bruford to Asia); I am still in the video; I have pictures; it is part of my story.

Post-script 3: Jon Anderson has always been friendly, welcoming and respectful. His only culpability in this hurtful episode was in being so passive.

http://www.eddiejobson.com/forum/read.php?f=1&i=3826&t=3826

Bugeyes
03-23-2007, 05:10 PM
You should have been in DA last night, Umgy. :D I know I miss you there.

Thanks!

Simon B
03-23-2007, 05:12 PM
EDDIE!

Thanks for Tull - to pretty for YES!

InverYes
03-23-2007, 05:14 PM
Another bruised ego eh?

umgekehrt
03-23-2007, 05:16 PM
You should have been in DA last night, Umgy. :D I know I miss you there.

Thanks!

I re-installed my XP a month ago and have been so far unable to re-install my Java Virtual Machine to go to the DA chatroom :(

Simon B
03-23-2007, 05:18 PM
I re-installed my XP a month ago and have been so far unable to re-install my Java Virtual Machine to go to the DA chatroom :(

...and Pandas should care....why?

Jackaranda
03-23-2007, 05:20 PM
I'd like to hear what the others would say about this story.

Bugeyes
03-23-2007, 05:21 PM
I re-installed my XP a month ago and have been so far unable to re-install my Java Virtual Machine to go to the DA chatroom :(Oh bummer. I go in thru StarChat, now-a-days.

This article was a topic last night.

Simon B
03-23-2007, 05:21 PM
Wot ... other Pandas?

BrianD
03-23-2007, 05:21 PM
Re: YES
Author: EJ
Date: 03-17-07 18:15

OK folks... you asked:

I have been thinking about my hesitation in answering in detail about my time with Yes, and have concluded that a full explanation would be incomplete without some understanding of the social background of the London music scene in the ‘70s and ‘80s. To give a thorough and honest answer, I would have to get into some very personal recollections and history… and I have decided that too many personal details, especially of others, would serve nobody well. So, after 23 years of silence on the matter, here is a somewhat abridged version:

I remember, around 1974 and still a fairly fresh teenage transplant to “the South,” observing there to be quite a self-congratulatory social club (of which I was not a member) of successful musicians, moneyed hoorays and fashionistas occupying the trendy upper-end London social tier. They drove Bentleys and Aston Martins, lived in very large houses in Surrey (or trendy apartments within a stone’s throw of Knightsbridge or Chelsea), belonged to the same charities, and met one another for lengthy alcohol-soaked lunches and dinners at London’s most tony restaurants and private clubs. A small subset of this crowd was a sorority of ‘group wives’ who spent large amounts of their husbands’ money shopping on the Kings Road and who effervesced at sharing a charity event with Princess Fergie or being invited to a garden party at McCartney’s mansion.

As a young musician, this social environment formed much of the elite backdrop to the world of the successful ‘art’ bands (Roxy, Genesis, Floyd, Yes, etc…) and I remember vividly—even as Roxy were at the top of their game and at the top of the charts—a strong sense of estrangement from this self-impressed and moneyed social clique. As naïve as it may have been, I really was in it for the music.

However, my Roxy association did allow me some lesser place in the club, and my talent gave rise to many requests for my musical participation, including one call, in 1974, to assess my interest in replacing the newly departed Rick Wakeman in Yes. My impression of Yes was that they were a musically very impressive (and of course, extremely successful) band, but that they, too, were hugely impressed with their own status and were living on a lavishly grand scale. There also was that hippie/cosmic/druggie side that I knew would likely make it even harder for me to connect with them socially. For several years, I had seen Chris Squire showily driving around town in his huge and very distinctive maroon Bentley like some aristocratic Lord, and it seemed obvious that, as dismissively as Roxy and their camarilla were treating me, the Yes milieu would be even more unfriendly to this Northern teenager – so I boldly conveyed my ‘lack of interest’ in the Yes gig (in actual fact, I was somewhat excited by the concept of playing with Yes at their peak, but my instincts told me this would be an unwelcoming situation).

Fast forward almost six years… I had extricated myself from that disturbingly self-important London scene completely, from EG Management and Sun Artists (Yes’ management—who co-managed ‘UK’) and had happily relocated to the U.S., permanently removing myself from what I found to be an uncharitable world of supercilious people and expensive drug habits. Around the same time, I also disbanded U.K.—as part of the same purge. It was a fresh start, and the Green Album would be my solo venture as an independent free-spirit, surrounded by new friends—dare I say ‘all good people,’ with similar values to mine.

However, in early 1983, toward the end of the Green Album period, I received a call from an executive with Atlantic Records who was with Chris Squire and his new band “Cinema” in London. Despite my complete lack of interest in joining Squire’s new band, the phone conversation went on for several hours as he virtually begged me to participate on their new album (the record that would become “90215”) . This time my ‘lack of interest’ was real, I literally had zero enthusiasm for being in Squire’s band back in London. So original Yes keyboardist Tony Kaye was invited in for the album recording (which also apparently didn’t work out either, as he departed at the producer’s request after a very short period, leaving the keyboard duties to the production team.)

Later that year, with the Green Album finally completed, I happened to be visiting London as part of a promotional tour when I received a message (in the U.S.) that ‘Cinema’ was now ‘Yes,’ Jon Anderson had joined the band again, and that the album had come out really well. Oh, and they still needed a keyboard player... When they found out I was actually in London, new boy Trevor Rabin arranged to come round to play me the finished album. Trevor Horn (my favourite producer at the time) had done a fantastic job. All in all, though musically a little superficial, it was a fresh and contemporary recording, and with the ‘Yes’ name, a potential hit song (“Owner of a Lonely Heart”), Atlantic Records, and a well-funded support team behind it, it was clearly destined for considerably more commercial success than my struggling Green Album. With unlimited amounts of money flying around, my living in Connecticut was no problem; Jon was living in France, and Rabin and the new manager were living in Los Angeles. After all these years, maybe it was time for me to finally join Yes?

A couple of days later, we got together in a rehearsal room and thrashed through a few tunes, including ‘Roundabout’ (actually not knowing the song too well, I had to figure out Rick’s tricky keyboard parts on the spot – no easy task). But everyone seemed happy, so I returned to the U.S. as a full member of Yes and with a world tour only two or three months away. There was virtually no contact with anyone for several weeks as I learned all the Yes material in my home studio, although I did attend the mastering of the album with Rabin in New York. In fact, now I think about it, not one single band member ever called me, for any reason, during my entire stint with the group (or since).

The illusion of ‘equal membership’ soon became apparently false, especially once the filming of the “Owner of a Lonely Heart” video took place. Lord Squire’s indulgences (and the ubiquitous Bentley) were back in my face, and money was being squandered at an alarming rate. It was time-warp back to the 1970s. Roadies followed you around making sure you never had to lift even the smallest bag, and Chris was insisting on a private Boeing 707 for the tour! The grand lifestyle was being funded once again and egos were newly inflated. Despite my considerable experiences with Roxy, Zappa, UK, and Tull (a wonderful group of guys who treated me with considerable respect), and with more than 30 albums and a self-managed solo career under my belt, no one was interested in any wisdom I may have been able to impart, on any subject… even on the keyboard rig design which had already been decided upon. It was an inflated ‘Spinal Tap’ on so many levels, and I had unwittingly been sucked back into almost the same world of disregard that I had rejected so many years earlier. But I had made a commitment and I wanted to see it through.

Several weeks later, back in the U.S. where I continued to work on the considerable Yes repertoire, I did finally receive a phone call from someone—it was the manager who had been given the unceremonious task of informing me that Tony Kaye was re-joining the group and would be sharing keyboard duties with me. No discussion, no conferring… a done deal. And the reason? They needed three original members to put to rest a dispute with Brian Lane (their old manager), Steve Howe and Rick Wakeman regarding the legitimacy of the new band using the ‘Yes’ name. My youthful instincts were reawakened, there were red flags waving, and sirens going off... why was I doing this exactly? Still no call from anyone in the band, no discussions of alternate remedies, no apologies, just take it or leave it… so I hearkened to the words of their own song and chose to ‘leave it.’

Of course, the album and world tour went on to enormous success; Tony Kaye’s playing was supplemented by another player hidden off-stage; and the embarrassingly lame video had to be edited at the insistence of the BBC (to remove the disgusting ‘maggot’ scene), during which time they also removed as many of my scenes as possible.

Thanks, guys. All in all, the most disrespectful and unpleasant of all my band experiences (as brief as it was), and, with the occasional derisive remark from Squire or Allan White still showing up on the internet, one that still causes me undeserved anguish, embarrassment, and regret.

Post-script 1: The above description of the smug coterie that made up much of the British music-business elite in the ‘70s and ‘80s also serves the purpose of explaining much of the ill-feeling left percolating in the memories of more than a few of us more music-focused professionals. It also explains, in some part, the continuingly rude behaviour of some of that scene’s most indulgent subscribers (not mentioning any particular Arschlock by name, of course). It is ironic that those most included in that most exclusionary clique, now seem to be the most embittered and malicious.

Post-script 2: Some might ask why I would have a Yes page on the website. My answer is that I don’t have a category for ‘Bands I Didn’t Join and Should Have’ or for ‘Bands I Did Join and Shouldn’t Have.’ It was not a Guest Appearance; I was a member; there is a long history of connectivity (from Bruford to Asia); I am still in the video; I have pictures; it is part of my story.

Post-script 3: Jon Anderson has always been friendly, welcoming and respectful. His only culpability in this hurtful episode was in being so passive.

http://www.eddiejobson.com/forum/read.php?f=1&i=3826&t=3826


Umgy - when you paste an entire section from another blog we prefer that you more openly acknowledge the source. This was originally posted in Eddie Jobson's forum and I think you should have stated that at the top of the thread.

Simon B
03-23-2007, 05:22 PM
I'd like to hear what the others would say about this story.

PEGGY!!

What...other Pandas?

cinderella
03-23-2007, 05:23 PM
Ahhhh yes I was talking to someone about this very article last night.
I was wondering when it would surface here, or....IF it would.

I love Eddie. Awesome musician. :thumbs:
It could have been very cool.

Simon B
03-23-2007, 05:23 PM
Umgy - when you paste an entire section from another blog we prefer that you more openly acknowledge the source. This was originally posted in Eddie Jobson's forum and I think you should have stated that at the top of the thread.

OOOooooo!

:handbag:

Bugeyes
03-23-2007, 05:25 PM
:lmao:

Simon, Umgy & I met in the Delicious Agony chat room...years ago...around Umgy's join date, Feb 20, 2004. Umgy is one of my referrals.

umgekehrt
03-23-2007, 05:25 PM
Well I could edit the post and put the link at the top.

Simon B
03-23-2007, 05:28 PM
Well I could edit the post and put the link at the top.

F that! eat shoots and leave!

(Peg - British sarcasm)

BrianD
03-23-2007, 05:29 PM
Well I could edit the post and put the link at the top.


Usually in these circumstances I recommend that you write a short post about what can be found on the link and then put in the link to the original source without copying the whole slab. If you only want to copy a small portion to whet the appetite - and then link - that is OK.

Its too late to do that now. But you culd write a line at the top in an edit and say that the following is Eddie Jobson's response to a query on his forum.

Bugeyes
03-23-2007, 05:29 PM
F that! eat shoots and leave!

(Peg - British sarcasm)

Okay then, Simon.



THERE WERE LOTS OF PANDAS OUT LAST NIGHT.
We all ate shoots & leaves.




Whoops! Pardon me. Brian needs to be serious for a moment. I'll be quiet now. :1quiet:

Simon B
03-23-2007, 05:31 PM
Okay then, Simon.



THERE WERE LOTS OF PANDAS OUT LAST NIGHT.
We all ate shoots & leaves.

Wooooooo Hooooooo!!!!!!

ham
03-23-2007, 05:33 PM
Methinks the master of the Electric Violin is a mite miffed still after all these years......

Sometimes I think its best not to know what is going on in the band - it really is a tragi-comic, surreal, horror show at times...

pianozach
03-23-2007, 05:37 PM
It sounds to me as if Eddie got caught in the gears of the music industry machine, in spite of his gut instincts to steer away from juggernaut bands such as Yes.

It sounds as though he had no problem personally with Jon or either of the Trevors, other than them not standing up for him.

In many ways, the members of Yes themselves were caught in the gears as well. Anyone remember Union? The music company evidently called the shots on that one, much to many of the band members' dismay.

Eddie's reaction to the the apparent "lifestyles of the rich and famous" is his opinion, and, as he mentions Chris' automobile at least twice, it really rubs him the wrong way.

Fine. I won't begrudge him that - the music industry can be so wasteful at times (when the smell of "hit record" is in the air). I won't begrudge any member of Yes for enjoying the fruits of success (while they last) either.

Thanks for posting the informative Jobson release. I've always admired his musicianship, and now I can appreciate his candor as well.

cinderella
03-23-2007, 05:45 PM
Sometimes I think its best not to know what is going on in the band - it really is a tragi-comic, surreal, horror show at times...

I agree. It's better not knowing.

:tmi:

True Believer
03-23-2007, 06:04 PM
Sometimes I think its best not to know what is going on in the band - it really is a tragi-comic, surreal, horror show at times...
Yes ... indeed.

PhaseDance
03-23-2007, 06:45 PM
Sometimes I think its best not to know what is going on in the band - it really is a tragi-comic, surreal, horror show at times...

I agree. It's better not knowing.

:tmi:
A bit like hot dogs, bologna, etc.

If you plan on enjoying it, you don't want to know what it's made of.



That made for an interesting 'read', though.

CybrKhatru
03-23-2007, 06:57 PM
Yeah....my days of "demystification" are definitely over. Sometimes ignorance is bliss after all.

I will bite my tongue....

Yes.2
03-23-2007, 07:05 PM
Methinks the master of the Electric Violin is a mite miffed still after all these years......

Sometimes I think its best not to know what is going on in the band - it really is a tragi-comic, surreal, horror show at times...

Agreed.

I do like this thread though.

relayeire
03-23-2007, 07:06 PM
Come on, we know the real reason Eddie was out of the band… Trevor was afraid of competition in the cute guy department… he was afraid Cindy would fall for Eddie instead of him… lol
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
Thanks Umgy, for posting this very revealing tale… and thanks, Eddie, for sharing it!
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
Eddie sounds like a very sensitive individual – in both the positive and negative meanings of the word… very principled, but a little uptight…
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
Though I would have been pissed had they designed my keyboard rig and made all those other decisions without me…
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
hard for me to imagine (no pun intended) Allan (sic) being nasty toward anyone… does anyone know what derisive remarks Eddie is referring to???
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>

Orbert
03-23-2007, 07:21 PM
Eddie's interpretation of events coincide with, or at least don't contradict, anything we've already heard about his tenure in Yes. His commentary on the behavior of the other members (including our beloved Fish) also fits in well with what we know. He may be bitter, but it didn't feel that way to me. Just a matter of clearing the air. He was in Yes, he created a Yes page on his site for completeness if nothing else, and he had to put something there. What the heck. He can say what he wants on his site, and I for one believe everything he's said.

relayeire
03-23-2007, 07:31 PM
Eddie didn't sound bitter to me... sounded like he gave it a go, but it just wasn't his scene... with regard to his tenure with Yes, this is the first time I've ever read anything explaining it... all I'd heard previously was that Tony was gone, came back, and Eddie left... the rest is all new info for some of us...

Close to Loch Ness
03-23-2007, 08:00 PM
I'm not surprised by what Eddie states. The evil $ rears its ugly head again.

cinderella
03-23-2007, 08:47 PM
Come on, we know the real reason Eddie was out of the band… Trevor was afraid of competition in the cute guy department… he was afraid Cindy would fall for Eddie instead of him… lol


LOL! Yep!! The real reason is finally revealed!! :winknudge

pianozach
03-23-2007, 09:26 PM
Eddie didn't sound bitter to me... sounded like he gave it a go, but it just wasn't his scene... with regard to his tenure with Yes, this is the first time I've ever read anything explaining it... all I'd heard previously was that Tony was gone, came back, and Eddie left... the rest is all new info for some of us...

And how do you think Tony Kaye feels about his tenure(s) with the band? First being unceremoniously dumped in favor of Mr. Wakeman, then being asked to help with a new band and being dumped from that as well?

And then being asked to be in the band again in order for them to use the Yes moniker? (although I'm not sure of the veracity of this last one . . . ) And having to play along with either taped tracks or hidden musicians . . . and with most of the keyboards recorded by the guitarist? (I mean, I would've signed on in a heartbeat, but really . . . )

And then after three more albums, he's NOT with the band again? OK, four more, counting Union - - - and what was his contribution on that album?

And then there was Mr. Forgotten First Guitarist - dumped after two albums. He sounded pretty bitter in the liner notes of the Beyond and Before collection . . .:Wow:

Orbert
03-23-2007, 10:07 PM
Tony Kaye would be justified in feeling bitter, but he doesn't strike me as that type of guy. Considering his level of success outside of Yes, he may genuinely feel grateful for the time he got to play with them.

Peter Banks has never even tried to hide his bitterness, and I don't blame him.

Supposedly, Patrick was treated much the same way when Rick expressed interest in returning.

As I said, Eddie's description of how he was treated fits in with what we've heard elsewhere.

relayeire
03-23-2007, 10:51 PM
this was the first I ever heard of him coming back due to a dispute with former bands members (Steve and Rick objecting to the usage of the name)

actually, Rick had quit and Yes still used the name for Drama... doesn't make sense

frosted
03-24-2007, 12:44 AM
And how do you think Tony Kaye feels about his tenure(s) with the band? First being unceremoniously dumped in favor of Mr. Wakeman, then being asked to help with a new band and being dumped from that as well?

And then being asked to be in the band again in order for them to use the Yes moniker? (although I'm not sure of the veracity of this last one . . . ) And having to play along with either taped tracks or hidden musicians . . . and with most of the keyboards recorded by the guitarist? (I mean, I would've signed on in a heartbeat, but really . . . )

And then after three more albums, he's NOT with the band again? OK, four more, counting Union - - - and what was his contribution on that album?

And then there was Mr. Forgotten First Guitarist - dumped after two albums. He sounded pretty bitter in the liner notes of the Beyond and Before collection . . .:Wow:

That part about Tony just does not sound right to me either. Tony was asked to join and played with what was to be Cinema for about 9 months. Then Trevor and Chris went to london and recorded demos with Trevor doing the keyboards. They played the demos for Atlantic records and got a album deal. They went into the studio (with Tony) to do the album but Tony and Trevor Horn could not get along (for whatever reason) and Tony left. The album was practicaly done when Jon came into the picture and Cinema became Yes. Plus with Jon,Chris and Alan in the band why would they have to get Tony back to call it Yes? I always thought that the reason Tony was talked into coming back after the album was finished was because Trevor and Chris felt bad for Tony and wanted him back for the tour.

Orbert
03-24-2007, 01:01 AM
Maybe they needed Tony because they needed three orginal members to secure the name. I agree that that one point does sound fishy. It could also have just been the line they were feeding Eddie at the time. When 90125 came out, everyone knew it as "Yes, but with a new guitarist". Tony being there definitely helped (some). Without either Steve or Rick, it sure didn't sound very Yessish, but it was hard to argue against calling it Yes with four previous Yesmen, including three original members.

Olorin
03-24-2007, 01:03 AM
Another interesting if depressing read. The comments about the band's lifestyle match pretty well with what I've read in some of the Yes books--that they spent money like there was no tomorrow, and once their popularity waned, they had to keep trying for the hit single (instead of making more traditional Yes music) just to try to pay the bills.

What is it about musicians, or some musicians anyway, that makes them think they will never run out of money? Elton John? Michael Jackson? Who'd have thought they'd squander it, but they did.

Ian Burdon
03-24-2007, 04:20 AM
Standing the comments already made above, I'm inclined to take this at face value as Eddie Jobson's straightforward recollection of events and it does have a faintly world-weary ring of truth about it, at least in its general thrust even if those so inclined might quibble with some detail.

He does write early on that he is giving an abbreviated account and missing out personalised criticism/abuse so it is probably reading too much into it to look at what isn't there; but I am interested that he clearly feels a continuing irritation with Alan and Chris, goes out of his way to exclude Jon from his comments and mentions Rick only in relation to his absence and the trickiness of the keyboard parts. Steve Howe is not mentioned at all.

relayeire
03-24-2007, 08:50 AM
They went into the studio (with Tony) to do the album but Tony and Trevor Horn could not get along (for whatever reason) and Tony left.

I think the official version was that it was a tech issue. That is, Tony was not very well versed with the newer keyboards Mr. Horn was wanting to use for the album - Synclavier, Kurzweil, sampling keyboards, etc. Tony was not a technology guy - just a great player (nothing wrong with that). You can sit down at an organ or piano and just start playing; not so for instruments that involve a lot of programming. However, this Rabin kid seemed to be open to newer things. He's the one who took Yes "tapeless" with Talk, as you will recall.

Mind Driver
03-24-2007, 09:07 AM
:baby: :horse: :buttkick:

Olorin
03-24-2007, 10:15 AM
I am interested that he clearly feels a continuing irritation with Alan and Chris, goes out of his way to exclude Jon from his comments and mentions Rick only in relation to his absence and the trickiness of the keyboard parts. Steve Howe is not mentioned at all.

I was a bit surprised by that as I had never had the impression that Alan was a guy who sniped at people behind their backs. I guess he's only human after all. Eddie's assessment of Jon essentially ignoring the whole affair and letting it go doesn't surprise me, as Jon strikes me as very passive and non-confrontational (except of course when he himself is the source of the controversy).

InverYes
03-24-2007, 10:26 AM
OK. I've just twigged that this is NOT the guy that used to be in The Skids and did that weird dance.

Ho Hum.

neilius
03-24-2007, 10:35 AM
Interesting thread.

ham
03-24-2007, 10:42 AM
Mr White is frae Co. Durham
Mr Jobson is frae Co. Durham
People frae that part of the world tend tae be a wee blunt when they want tae be...
Then again is there a futba' thingy here?
Mr White = Geordie
Mr Jobson = Smoggy

:drummer: :Itchscrat :keyboard:

The Whale
03-24-2007, 11:24 AM
they all make good music, its a shame feelings were hurt. I don't think any of us think the boys are 100% perfect so this artical really dosn't mean any thing. Hasent eddy ever heard the saying "its nothing personal, just buissnes"?

Fly By Light
03-24-2007, 12:04 PM
It's sad to know there have been situations like this in Yes' history. Loyalty and respect appear to run short here and there. I don't enjoy hearing about this side of Yes' nature, but it is what makes Yes Yes. If they stayed in tact as the original lineup, most of the Yes music as we know it would not exist. To me, it's all about the music and not the individuals. "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts". Yes music transcends its mortal roots.

My condolences to Peter, Tony, Patrick, Eddie, Trevor, Geoff, Trevor, Billy and any one else who has suffered the unpleasant "changes".

ambient fish
01-08-2009, 05:48 PM
Sounds like a basket of sour grapes to me:aaa[1]:

Olorin
01-08-2009, 07:46 PM
Sounds like a basket of sour grapes to me:aaa[1]:

If this were the only tale like this, sure, you could chalk it up to naivete and bitterness. However, once you look at Banks' and Bruford's takes on the band, it's pretty hard to dismiss all of them as sour grapes, particularly Bruford, who left of his own free will.

gathernear
01-08-2009, 08:04 PM
I missed this thread the first time. Wow, what a read!

Razman
01-11-2009, 03:13 AM
it would make a great story line in a soap opera...

but as with all things in life there are three sides to every story...

yours, mine and the guy who is writing it down....

an interesting read tho.

Borris
01-11-2009, 04:13 AM
I was a bit surprised by that as I had never had the impression that Alan was a guy who sniped at people behind their backs. I guess he's only human after all. Eddie's assessment of Jon essentially ignoring the whole affair and letting it go doesn't surprise me, as Jon strikes me as very passive and non-confrontational (except of course when he himself is the source of the controversy).

Eddie's remarks about Jon seem pretty gracious to me. I don't think it is surprising that Jon did nothing because Jon was grafted onto this version of Yes pretty late in the piece and I suspect he didn't have the sway. Trevor & Chris were central to the band. I regard Rabin as the creative leader of this line up. I don't think Jon is passive either, in Tony Kaye's interview with Earl, he talked of Jon as setting the band's direction. I just don't think at this time Jon had a firm hold in the band. Steve Layton's recent interview stressed this to, that Jon is a strong personal force, people regard Jon as a bit airy fairy because of his spiritual beliefs, but i don't think he is. Someone who has lasted that long in the music business both in and out of Yes is not passive.

This account does reinforce other things I've heard about the role of management & money in the band. I also think that these forces are not beneficial to the music.

We all know though by listening what Yes could do musically, and I just wish that the music would come before the money and they would create new music, with Jon. I was watching the Yesspeak and Rick spoke of how he left Yes the second time after speaking to Jon, Jon had said he was going to quit and Rick said without Jon you don't have Yes so he left too.

Sharp on Attack
01-11-2009, 07:37 AM
Most of what Eddie says is probably true. I've read elsewhere about YES members' haughty behaviour with fellow musicians, Dave Stewart (no, the other one!) keyboard genius for canterbury bands Egg, Hatfield and the North and National health (and keyboardist on the 4 BRUFORD albums) who shared many bills with YES in the 70's keeps saying that they were detestable and looked down on all other bands and musicians, thinking they were the "Aristocracy" of prog.


Yet, I don't think his flashy style would have suited the 90125 songs, this "new" YES music didn't need a keyboards virtuoso.

Meng
01-11-2009, 07:57 AM
Ego problems aside, right keyboardist at the wrong time.

I'd have killed to have heard his take on some Yes classics.

Pete Griggs
01-11-2009, 08:15 AM
I think the comments about the band not contacting him are consistent with when Jon was seriously ill last year. Other than Alan contacting him, the rest relied on "The Management". ??????????????????????????????

What sort of people are they?????

When I broke my back at work in 2005 I had only been at the company 9 weeks. Every employee signed a get well card and 2 of them came to hospital to give it too me.

I guess that is the difference between "real" people and showbiz types.

I would like to thank Eddie for this insight into the inner workings of a supergroup.

It certainly changed my perspective of the current band members.

oliasdoug
01-11-2009, 01:16 PM
Assuming Eddie's giving an accurate account here (and I have absolutely no reason to suspect he's not), it saddens me to hear these things about members of Yes. As someone else mentioned, it kind of falls into place with what is told about Yes in Chris Welch's CLOSE TO THE EDGE biography. Eddie could have brought a new dimension to Yes's music in the same sense that Patrick did on RELAYER. After being knocked out by the first 2 UK albums--and being utterly blown away seeing both incarnations of the band on their '78 and '79 tours--it's nothing short of mind-boggling to think of what Yes would have sounded like with Eddie as a permanent OR temporary member.

fovman
01-11-2009, 01:44 PM
retracted

oliasdoug
01-11-2009, 02:08 PM
"He he....You said "query!" - Beavis
.

Billy Sherwood HQ
01-11-2009, 02:22 PM
It's sad to know there have been situations like this in Yes' history. Loyalty and respect appear to run short here and there. I don't enjoy hearing about this side of Yes' nature, but it is what makes Yes Yes. If they stayed in tact as the original lineup, most of the Yes music as we know it would not exist. To me, it's all about the music and not the individuals. "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts". Yes music transcends its mortal roots.

My condolences to Peter, Tony, Patrick, Eddie, Trevor, Geoff, Trevor, Billy and any one else who has suffered the unpleasant "changes".

Unlike Eddie, I knew the animal very well before I decided to jump in. I don't feel slighted or disrespected because I was in charge of my own destiny at every turn. That said it was not always a bed of roses lol... but the journey was one I wouldn't change for the world and I walk away still respecting the instituation of YES. Thanks for the condolences but in my case that isn't the word I would use...

I prefer "thanks for serving" http://www.yesfans.com/images/icons/usa.gif