Poll--yeswest Or Trooper? [Archive] - Yesfans.com: Founded 4/01

Trooper

04-27-2001, 03:27 PM

In regards to the poll question: Trooper (of course!)

I, too, thought the Union Tour was good show. The show that was disappointing to me was the Talk Tour. Thankfully, ever since Howe has been back in the fold, all the shows have been great. Nothing against Trevor, it just seems more like Yes now.

1yesfan

04-27-2001, 04:34 PM

I liked the Talk tour. Gave me a chance to hear a lot of the 90125 stuff I didn't get t hear on that tour since I HATED YES back then!

Squire*Fan725

04-30-2001, 12:33 AM

I did enjoy those 90125 videos they used to show on MTV, but back then, I didn't know who Yes was. I hated I've Seen All Good People. I finally came to my senses around the time of Union, but it was too late for me to catch that show. My first Yesshow was during the Talk tour, which blew me away (Chris did, anyhow). My second show was during the OYE tour (or the 30th Anniversary tour), which was better, because of all the Trooper era stuff that was played (except Starship Trooper, much to my chagrin).

Hey Tim, what are my chances of fixing my mis-spelled user name? It really sucks having to deliberately type it wrong to log in. HELLLLLP!:o

Squire*Fan72571 :not: Sqiure*Fan72571!!!

1yesfan

04-30-2001, 08:29 AM

Fixed!:cheers:

Squire*Fan725

04-30-2001, 11:17 AM

THANKS, TIM!!!:bncsmls:

1yesfan

05-07-2001, 12:31 AM

Sure

ycantibu

05-09-2001, 03:52 PM

Trevor Rabin/YesWest fan. I just can't help myself.

1yesfan

05-09-2001, 04:34 PM

GREEEEEAT a yeswest fan. Now there are 3 of us. Ha ha ha ha.
bncsmls

Andrew_Soundchaser

05-15-2001, 01:52 PM

I suppose I would have to say I am more of a YesWest fan than a Trooper but I love all the pre-Rabin songs as well! Who couldn't! I will however admit it was the 80's Yes style that hooked me and I would still prefer to listen to "Rhythm Of Love" than "Close To The Edge" any day!

Andy

nightliner

05-15-2001, 04:32 PM

I enjoy the Trevor era staff almost as much as the Trooper, but come on now...Rhythm of Love over Close to the Edge? The only way I would make that choice is if I only had 5 minutes of listening time available, and even then, I think I would have to think about making another choice.

Oh Yes, welcome to the forum.

Mike Park

05-15-2001, 05:14 PM

We have to keep in mind that Rick had joined and left Yes twice before Andrew was even born, so CTTE is ancient history to him!:ohhyeah:

Andrew_Soundchaser

05-15-2001, 07:43 PM

Maybe "Close To The Edge" wasn't the best song to compare "Rhythm Of Love", hell, the only thing that they have in common is that they were both written by Yes! that's how different they are! Also, "Close To The Edge" as an album is one of my favourite Yes albums so I guess it was a bad choice. Still, the point I'm trying to make is that because of the type of music I prefer, I would listen to "Rhythm Of Love" before I'd listen to "Close To The Edge". This doesn't mean one is better than the other, it's all down to personal preference. It's a topic which I can never find an answer to satisfy myself with! Yep, I'm pretty sure I'm a fan of YesWest and Troopers.

An thanks for welcoming me to the club! Shame I missed the 70's, most of my favourite bands/artists are from that era (Yes, Mike Oldfield, Led Zeppelin.......) I wouldn't say acient history though, you older prog rockers are too hard on yourself! Believe me, you taste in music beats Limp Biskit and all those other crappy rap/metal bands any day!!!!

Cheers,

Andy

ycantibu

05-15-2001, 08:25 PM

Andy:

Hello. I myself prefer Trevor Rabin era Yes. No shame in it ya know.

I don't necessarily have a problem with old Yes, especially if Trevor is playing on it. Does this officially labelled me as a heretic? :)

Andrew_Soundchaser

05-16-2001, 05:13 AM

I don't think so! LOL! I agree here, when Trevor plays the old tunes I tend to like them more. Example: On the 9012Live and Big Generator tours they played "Yours Is No Disgrace" and I totally love Trevor's efforts on this. Man, that guy can play fast!

Some would sya that he has ruined the older songs but not so in my humble opinion. It's just two different concerts you get when you have guy like Howe and Rabin at the guitars.

I'm just happy that there are all these different Yes lineups, it makes for brilliant descusions!

Andy

Mike Park

05-16-2001, 07:12 PM

By the same token, this Trooper thoroughly enjoyed Rick's participation in Rabin comps - if you haven't heard the Union Tour live cuts, you should check them out. I especially like Rick's treatments on Rhythm of Love and Owner.

As for YIND, Yessongs is still the best, hands down. Interestingly enough, the cut used in the Yessongs video is horrible! It was a long time ago that I saw that, but I can still remember how many of the songs did not match the album selections. IMO the Rabin treatments of Classic Yes songs would not be so unpalatable if it weren't for Tony Kaye's poor efforts - they really make those songs hard to listen to, for me! (Yesyears).

My criticism of Rabin is still that his work is so much a collection of his influences, and I don't find much originality. Technically adept, but creatively weak. Rick likes him though, so he can't be all bad!
:p

haroldthebarrel

05-17-2001, 05:02 PM

"My criticism of Rabin is still that his work is so much a collection of his influences, and I don't find much originality. Technically adept, but creatively weak. Rick likes him though, so he can't be all bad! "

Not that Rick has been the MOST creative lately though!:lol:

I think Rick likes Rabin because of the dollar $igns he sees everytime he thinks about collaborating with him. Rick is more in music for money these days and not at all for the artistic quality of the music like he was in the 1970's. Rabin means a chance for Rick Wakeman to be on a record that sells for the first time in 20 years. But Then again Rabin is over his peak too, so maybe that's the real reason they like each other. But either way a good album would be a Rabin/Wakeman release. It could actually happen too.

I like Rabin as maybe one of my top ten guitarists, but I can't believe anyone would say that he plays Howes classic masterpieces *correctly*, yet better.:lol:

But that's my opinion...By the way, what is Rabin doing next? And why DOESN't he come out with solo albums anymore? Because of sales?

Joe

Mike Park

05-17-2001, 08:04 PM

I don't think so, Joe...

Since he had to sell his rights to his own music back in '95 to pay taxes, there are others making money off of his name and compositions. Twenty-two years' worth wiped out with a signature.

And I don't think a recent tour of GB playing to "crowds" of 200 - 300 people was a great money-making venture. Yes is very big in South America and I'm sure he was well-received on his most recent tour there, but that was with the ERE. (i.e., greater touring expenses).

As for creativity, his releases are prolifice - over 50?? - and while there are some things that are purely background music (Aspirant series, Zodiaque, Country Airs, etc.), they are enjoyable while reading or driving. I myself prefer instrumental Rick whether it's one of these or a rocker like Six Wives or Criminal Record, but his epics like Journey, Return and Arthur are on the grand scale, not just in quantity but with a good deal of quality, too. And his Christian music is a whole other arena.

Rick was a real screw-up for a long time, but so was I, and he's just trying to do the best he can with what he's got to work with, like a lot of us. He's been straightforward about his failures and shortcomings, and he's still got a great sense of humor about the whole thing. Says a lot, for me.

And really, now: Isn't Rick more unique and easily identifiable by his playing, than Trevor Rabin? To me, it could be TR, or Foriegner, or Boston, or any of those blonde longhaired balladeers from the '80's - they all steal from eachother, don't they?

mp

haroldthebarrel

05-18-2001, 12:22 PM

I agree, Rick definitely has more of a signature style than Trevor!

Is that Rick or Rabin you are talking about regarding wiping out twenty years with a signature to pay taxes?

I was basically referring to the recent piano albums and some of his well-known bad stuff. Not Rick's music career in general. His music RULES! I have most of his solo albums, and I love them all, the ambient stuff...everything!

smatt

06-10-2001, 02:41 PM

Hi Tim, I think you should change the (BOTH) catagory to Yeswhole. That is the accepted proper distinction to sombody that like Classic(trooper)Drama(panther)Generator(yeswest). I think it's pretty distrcriptive in a humorous kind of way.

:D

Matt

fragilesi

07-01-2001, 07:33 AM

Wow! I was just trawling through some of this older stuff when I came across the first post here that's made my blood boil ever!

I think Rick likes Rabin because of the dollar $igns he sees everytime he thinks about collaborating with him. Rick is more in music for money these days and not at all for the artistic quality of the music like he was in the 1970's. Rabin means a chance for Rick Wakeman to be on a record that sells for the first time in 20 years.

Wow! I'll say it again, where did this come from??? Rabin's off doing what I imagine are lucrative soundtracks while Rick has been playing extensive solo tours in small intimate venues for a large part of the last couple of years. Trust me, there isn't a lot of money in that, just a lot of hard work and of course the music.

I'm sure that the above quote wasn't meant as harsh as it sounded - particularly judging by later comments - but I think that it's so far off the mark that it deserved to get a good

:nono:

Simon.

smatt

07-01-2001, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Andrew_Soundchaser
I don't think so! LOL! I agree here, when Trevor plays the old tunes I tend to like them more. Example: On the 9012Live and Big Generator tours they played "Yours Is No Disgrace" and I totally love Trevor's efforts on this. Man, that guy can play fast!

Some would sya that he has ruined the older songs but not so in my humble opinion. It's just two different concerts you get when you have guy like Howe and Rabin at the guitars.

Andy

Now this is the only thing Rabin did in Yes that really pissed me off!:mad: I don't think he did well with some of the old classics. He basically just played them, no feeling, no accenting, just played them. At one time he made a statement, I believe it was during a radio interveiw with Bob Coburn, he said "Some of these old songs are really easy to play" Of course they are if you turn the solos into simple fast scales. I just don't think he tried to do justice to the old material. Just my opinion though. Rabin is great on Rabin era material, but not on Howe era material. The styles are just too diferent, not compatible at all!

As far as Wakeman just seeing $ signs. Hey man, you have to eat. Although I don't really care for much of his solo work, that does not diminish what he has done in the past or preclude him from doing something relevent in the future. The same goes for the rest of the band. I doubt they will ever achieve the commercial success of the past, but they still have a chance to create some special music.

Matt

ronw

08-31-2001, 09:17 AM

Hey they are all in it for money to some degree, maybe some more than others but who cares, like someone said everyone needs to eat. Besides they deserve it and then some. Thats why I purchase all my YES material, its my small way of saying thankyou.
I prefer the trooper yes myself but I cetainly listen to the rabin stuff quite a bit as well. Theres nothing like CTTE or GOD though, maybe "In the Presence Of" might fall in that catagory too.

Olias_01

12-06-2001, 10:38 AM

Yes West sounds boring. How about 'Endless Dreamer';)

02-11-2002, 02:09 PM

Glad to be able to vote "both" ... picking between the two would be like trying to decide if i like steak or pizza better ...

Balrog

02-11-2002, 03:00 PM

You're right Quantum. I like both sides of Yes. (Why do I have a sudden craving for a ribeye and a large hand-tossed Supreme?)

Flo

02-26-2002, 03:16 AM

I consider myself as a true Yes fan, and I like both. If it had not been for these numerous changes and renewals in Yes members, Yes would not have celebrated their 33th anniversary. And I'm very grateful for that.

02-26-2002, 10:04 AM

Various complaints have popped up in posts that Rick Wakeman was somehow greedier than the rest or otherwise obstinate about touring.

It's well-established in quotes from all active members in 1997 that Wakeman did not continue with the band for several reasons, not just money:

1) he took issue with Keys II, specifically that it was a bad title for the album and that the studio material was strong enough to stand on its own, not just to be double album filler (and he was right --- Keystudio made the situation worse with a lame sequence of tracks);

2) the band's management didn't bother to inform him of the tour schedule before booking it ... if Howe had been doing solo dates at the time, as Wakeman was, and he had been the one inconvenienced, you can bet he would have howled to the heavens about it, and rightly so;

Setting aside who was right or wrong, these issues are reasonable and don't indict Wakeman as a greedy hold-out.

On the matter of Rick and money, he is notoriously unable to hold onto a dollar, but it is extremely well-documented that his capacity for expenditure evolved in the service of his fans, and his propensity for putting all of his personal money into quality shows. And among the membership, only Bruford and Howe can really lay claim to refined financial sensibilities, so finger-pointing is a bit silly.

If Rick comes back this summer, you can bet that these matters will be well-defined beforehand, as they were for the Union tour - and if memory serves, that tour was absolutely marvelous.

Hence - no fears, Rick fans.

haroldthebarrel

02-26-2002, 04:56 PM

I don't think so! LOL! I agree here, when Trevor plays the old tunes I tend to like them more. Example: On the 9012Live and Big Generator tours they played "Yours Is No Disgrace" and I totally love Trevor's efforts on this. Man, that guy can play fast!

and

Now this is the only thing Rabin did in Yes that really pissed me off! I don't think he did well with some of the old classics. He basically just played them, no feeling, no accenting, just played them.

---This is a very similar debate to a Genesis one, where the die hards feel Daryl Streumer butchers Steve Hackett's licks.

YesNY

04-12-2002, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by smatt
Hi Tim, I think you should change the (BOTH) catagory to Yeswhole. That is the accepted proper distinction to sombody that like Classic(trooper)Drama(panther)Generator(yeswest). I think it's pretty distrcriptive in a humorous kind of way.

:D

Matt

I like the recognition you gave to the Drama lineup. Gets me thinking if we would be splitting hairs by creating a separate designation for the first two albums lineup: Name it the "Word" lineup, perhaps. How about with Billy and Igor? The "Open Your Ladder" version of the band has a nice ring to it. Not that we expect these linups to get votes, but Generator (Yes West) never really had a prayer either. Still, Yes West did put out some decent stuff and that lineup has nothing to be ashamed about.

04-15-2002, 09:31 AM

In the back of my mind, I've always thought of Buggles Yes as the first draft of YesWest ... the sound (pioneered by Howe) was so much more contemporary and rock-driven that the Trooper canon, Horn continued with the band in a different capacity until 1986 - and on top of this I've always mused that Geoff Downes would have been, if not for Asia, a better exponent for YesWest than Tony Kaye was ...

RobAdams

05-13-2002, 12:52 AM

I was thinking the same thing about Geoff Downes a couple days ago when I bought my first CD of DRAMA.

I don't think I care much for the term Yeswhole. I think liking all Yes lineups just makes me a Yes fan. I think these boundaries between Trooper and YesWest encourage a division that shouldn't be.

05-13-2002, 08:25 AM

If I can offer a parallel, I correspond with many classical music devotees. They behave very differently than fans of pop/rock groups. Their investment in the music matches and surpasses that of the Yes fan, and they are absolutely devoted to digging out the real historical perspective behind the composers whose work truly moves them.

When there is division, it is purely intellectual, not emotional. The joy in the music - even if music of differing periods happens to move different fans in different directions - is a tie that binds, rather than a wall that divides. And i have never, ever met a classical music fan who distorted the historical context in order to justify a musical preference.

And I have never, ever, EVER met a classical music fan who went out of their way to put down the preferences of another fan, let alone distort the historical context in order to do so.

While I have no problem with our Trooper/YesWest terms, I definitely come alongside you in calling for an end to division! It serves absolutely no purpose!

RobAdams

05-14-2002, 01:51 PM

Well stated Quantum

Jackaranda

05-14-2002, 06:41 PM

Yes is a one of a kind band in the sense that, no matter who is in the band, it's YES MUSIC. And Yes music is an entity unto itself.

All the arguments about who or who shouldn't be in the band are a bit overblown. Sure, Yes music with Rabin is a bit different than without him, but other musicians that have been in the band have left their stamp on the music as well. For instance, Relayer would have sounded radically different without Moraz playing keyboards, Drama was still Yes, but with a whole different approach (obviously), Bill Bruford's drumming is radically different from Alan's, Steve and Trevor have little in common as to their individual styles, OYE had Billy Sherwood doing a great deal of the writing, and so it goes. Even Peter and Tony showed on the early albums that they were pretty darn good, also.

I still agree with what Wakeman said, that their will be a Yes around for many years to come. In what form and with who remains to be seen, but I certainly hope he's right. As long as it's Yes, it'll be Yes music...Jack.

Neverthirst

05-14-2002, 07:08 PM

Well said, Jack.

Jackaranda

05-14-2002, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by Neverthirst
Well said, Jack.

Thanks.

Neverthirst

05-14-2002, 07:30 PM

Hey Jack ...

Not to get off topic here, but ...

Is it not an incredibly beautiful day today, here in God's country !?!

Wow ...

For those of you who don't know ... Jack and I live in the land of Bluegrass and Thoroughbreds, and today is a little taste of heaven ...

Steve St Thomas

06-23-2005, 07:48 PM

I voted BOTH, because I am.

cinderella

06-23-2005, 07:53 PM

I'm a YesWestie with a little Trooper on the side. ;)

neilius

06-25-2005, 08:42 AM

both. this band is part of me!

Yes2Yes

06-26-2005, 07:05 AM

I'm a YesWestie with a little Trooper on the side. ;)

Right with ya Cindy, but the other way around.

MoonGateClimber

06-28-2005, 11:17 PM

I'm mostly a Trooper, with a little bit of Westerner in me... It was the Trooper era music that made me enjoy Yes, after all!

Albedo

06-29-2005, 01:41 AM

I prefer the Trooper era, so I voted that way. That's what really excites me about Yes. Still there were some good songs in the YesWest era and I listen to those as well, just not so often.

Yes_Fan_4_Life26

06-29-2005, 04:21 PM

I'm a Trooper Panther Generator

flep

06-29-2005, 04:27 PM

I voted both

Because I am a complete fan. 90125 bought a new lease of life to Yes and kept them alive, without Rabin I believe the band would have died and we wouldn't be here today having this debate. My favourite album with Trevor is Talk. OK I know it's the most Yes sounding of the 4 studio albums he is on, not counting Union as that is a collaboration. 90125 and Big Generator both have their high points for me namely "Hearts" and one I can't get out of my head "Love Will Find a Way"

Jackaranda

06-29-2005, 06:38 PM

Shouldn't we add "Yuggle" to the poll, especially now? :git[1]: :1loudspkr

cinderella

06-29-2005, 06:50 PM

90125 bought a new lease of life to Yes and kept them alive, without Rabin I believe the band would have died and we wouldn't be here today having this debate.

You sure said a mouthful there. Gee Phil, you're pretty smart for a baby. ;)

Hill St.

07-04-2005, 07:08 PM

Trooper through and through.

Close to Loch Ness

07-04-2005, 07:56 PM

It's got to be Trooper for me. I agree that Trevor kept the band alive, but to me they became more of a transatlantic AOR band, albeit a very good one.
Trevor is a fine guitarist, but I don't think he's very original or exciting. I prefer the early stuff with Peter Banks.

"in and around the lake"