Is this the poorest album ?

[I'll be waiting]

Have been watching the Union shoreline DVD a fair bit recently and that made me reach for the Union CD the other night, is it just me or is this album by far the worst of any Yes release ever ?

The 2 tour DVD's are good shows and the Union songs on them come off not too bad but the album is lightweight.

[Kathi]

*

[relayerjim]

A great tour!
When I want to listen to YES I don't often find myself thinking, I know I'll listen to the Union album...
But I do give it a listen every now and then...

[1yesfan]

If you have not seen/heard any of the Union stuff live then I think the album prob is not bad. I know for me, having heard live stuff from the tour I can not go back and listen to much of the album, just not as good. For instance, Saving My Heart live is good. On the album it is played waaay too fast for me.

[umgekehrt]

I think all songs should be played at 1.5 speed.

[BlankReg]

Union may be a 'weak' release in the grand scheme of Yes albums, but it, like all Yes albums, has some great moments.

[JaneEyre]

I agree, Rich. And for me, it's not their poorest album - probably not even in the bottom three.

[Jackaranda]

It's right there with Tormato as the worst Yes album (imho). But the tour was great. When I saw them, they did 2 songs from the album, and they added Saving My Heart later.

[allen toth]

Side by side with, Open Your Eyes.

[cactus jon]

Wouldn't we all die to have a CD with the quality of songs on UNION now?? Yes, there are some weak songs on UNION (especially the Rabin songs), but the reality is that any YES songs are infinitely better than no new YES songs like now !!!

[brotherofmine]

Union IMHO is one of the best Yes albums...I just love it!

[flep]

I'm with Tony!!!

[Mostly Harmless]

One of my favorite Yes tours and one of my least favorite Yes albums. For me, easily one of the worst three albums.

[Dantalion Rides Again]

Wouldn't we all die to have a CD with the quality of songs on UNION now?? Yes, there are some weak songs on UNION (especially the Rabin songs), but the reality is that any YES songs are infinitely better than no new YES songs like now !!!

Interesting post ... interesting album! Opinions are very much divided around here. It's an album I happen to like, so I've paid close attention to what peoples' opinions are on it.

The main thing I find interesting is that some people HATE the ABWH tunes, and others hate the Rabin stuff. People who like those Rabin songs are maybe more vocal in expressing that, so it's refreshing to see the opposite view expressed (which I happen to share ... not my favorite YesWest material by a long shot!).

But it's interesting that Union is being compared favorably to the material since Union.

Good point. I don't totally agree that it's better than ALL the tunes on all four (five?) post-Union albums, but there are certainly songs since Union that I like less than almost everything ON Union. [I could make that a more confusing sentence if you like ... PM me.]

Perhaps the biggest problem with Union is that everyone is aware of the horror stories involving its personnel. If nobody was the wiser, the fan base would likely be WAY more accepting of the album on the whole.

[Dantalion Rides Again]

But it's interesting that Union is being compared favorably to the material since Union.

Good point. I don't totally agree that it's better than ALL the tunes on all four (five?) post-Union albums, but there are certainly songs since Union that I like less than almost everything ON Union. [I could make that a more confusing sentence if you like ... PM me.] ...
Oh crap. I just realized I misunderstood cactus jon's post and responded to what I thought he meant. I thought he was saying Union's way better than, say, Keys or something ... he must mean instead that it's better than NO Yes material. Geez. Sorry.

Carry on everyone ... I'll go elsewhere to pretend I know what I'm talking about.

[cactus jon]

Oh crap. I just realized I misunderstood cactus jon's post and responded to what I thought he meant. I thought he was saying Union's way better than, say, Keys or something ... he must mean instead that it's better than NO Yes material. Geez. Sorry.

Carry on everyone ... I'll go elsewhere to pretend I know what I'm talking about.

HEHE !! Sometimes I don't even understand myself!!
My post was really saying that the worst YES music is better than 99.99% of all the rest of music available. My least favorite YES music tends to be written by Trevor Rabin, but I still like it mucho !!!

[Olorin]

IMHO, Open Your Eyes is the weakest album. While Union isn't in the top 50% of my Yes favorites, I think it's head and shoulders above OYE. The only song I inevitably skip over is Saving My Heart--possibly the worst Yes song ever, or maybe just the silliest.

Also, when you consider the appalling path this album took to arrive in your neighborhood CD store--lack of ideas, members too stoned to play their instruments, producers substituting like wild, etc., according to reports--it's a miracle that it's as good as it is.

Just by great coincidence, I was listening to Union today. The intro of "Silent Talking" is one of the greatest song intros they ever did. Perhaps Wakeman's sound choices were replaced by different sounds here, but I think those opening keyboard chords have a very cool texture. I also really like the way the keys trade back and forth with the guitar, and then finally are playing together.

[Robert Shupe]

It is good to talk about Yes music. It brought us together.

It is my least favoirte but with the absence of new music I am glasd to have it.

It just didn't live up to what it could have been. It wasn't a true union. It had too many session muscians on it. It was as it was pushed, rushed, and driven by a great idea with poor marketing and management.

Having said that, the gems are there. Masquerade by Howe is beautiful. I love Silent Talking and even Lift Me Up and Take The Water To The Mountain work well for me. The Miracle Of Life was the first song I listened to upon the birth of my daughter because it was a miracle.

The tour was great but you just wonder how much better the record could have been.

Robert Shupe

[SadPreacher]

i don't know...i think it is a OK album...i like it better than Tormato...it has it's moments and seeing the tour probably makes me think more highly of it....

[cinderella]

Have been watching the Union shoreline DVD a fair bit recently and that made me reach for the Union CD the other night, is it just me or is this album by far the worst of any Yes release ever ?


I love the Union album. I think it's great and I like a lot of the songs. The More We Live - Let Go is one of my favorite all time Yes songs.

I have to be honest though, the show in Mountainview California (August 8th, 1991) I have on dvd sucked. The band just didn't seem to give a crap. They were giggling and goofing off and acting stupid. If I could have reached through the TV and slapped Trevor I would have. Maybe they were drunk I don't know, but whatever.

I realize it was the last show and they were tired of touring but the people in the audience paid to see a good show and the band just goofed off too much on stage.

Big difference from the great show I saw earlier that year in April.

[Scottie]

One of the greatest regrets I have is that I did not see this tour. Having been informed by a great friend of mine (still keep in touch actually) that there is an album (unheard of for me that I might be informed that Yes was doing something new). Big Gen. was the last show I saw, gave up, then was turned on to this album.

It will always hold importance in that it was a return for me and the convoluted members who are, or once were, in Yes have done this piece of work. :lmao:

This is The Best compilation album. Not a greatest hits, but a collaboration that was presented as a cohesive Yes album.

[Timmo]

I'd say it's a tossup between Union and OYE.

But the "worst" Yes albums are still better than 99%+ of what's out there!

FWIW, I love Tormato, and again, another album that worked MUCH better live.

[I'll be waiting]

Tormato seems to be getting a rough time in this thread (Future Times being 1 of my favourite Yes tracks), the live audio shows I have from the tour are nothing short of ASTOUNDING, they really give it their all !!!!

The main point of my thread was that while I really enjoyed the Union DVD's and the Union songs played live.....I just didn't feel that the album matched up to that ??

[neilius]

OYE has to be the worst; last time i listened to it, i didnt make it past track 5. Union is a good album; just because the band members don't like it does'nt mean we have to dislike it too.

[GODSPEED]

Had all 8 guys played on the same tracks on the album it would have been better (as it was in concert) but there were to many weak songs on it.
For me The Ladder is as bad as Union, never got into it.

[Terry Shea]

I love the Union album. I think it's great and I like a lot of the songs. The More We Live - Let Go is one of my favorite all time Yes songs.

I have to be honest though, the show in Mountainview California (August 8th, 1991) I have on dvd sucked. The band just didn't seem to give a crap. They were giggling and goofing off and acting stupid. If I could have reached through the TV and slapped Trevor I would have. Maybe they were drunk I don't know, but whatever.

I realize it was the last show and they were tired of touring but the people in the audience paid to see a good show and the band just goofed off too much on stage.

Big difference from the great show I saw earlier that year in April.You didn't like the Mountainview show? Wow! I thought it was awesome! I wouldn't say the guys were goofing off, it was more like they were having fun and really enjoying themselves. The footage and sound from the show are amazing.

[mpetr37349]

Sorry, but I have always really liked the album. Certainly not all of it, but it has more good songs than say, Open Your Eyes, which I believe IS the weakest album.
I think that I have so many fond memories of the Union tour(s) and that I was so excited about Yes at the time.The '90's have made me so jaded from so may Yes tours.

[The Whale]

Union may be a 'weak' release in the grand scheme of Yes albums, but it, like all Yes albums, has some great moments.

Just my thinking.

[GatesOfDelirium]

I think it IS a weak album indeed, but not their worst- for me Tormato (very poor all around, imho) and Open Your Eyes (wrong album at the wrong time) pip it. The material I rather felt tried to pander to two camps, considering the hoohah surrounding the band then, yet failed to satisfy either.

[sirlespaul]

I'd say it's the second
1st is Magnification

[yesyadda]

I like 'em both.

[Soundchaser_413]

THere are at least two albums I like less than Union. THe first self titled album and Open Your Eyes. THere might be another. I think the music is pretty good but the way it was put together sounds a bit sloppy and sometimes uninspired. But for me bad Yes music is like bad pizza. ;)

[Roadkill]

I have very strong memories of seeing them play Shock To The System as part of some benefit show about saving the Kurds or something. I bought the album (I distinctly remember reading the sleevenotes in the shop and thinking uh-oh, this is not a union at all - lying record executive b*stards!) and was really not impressed. Patchy and you can't always tell who's playing what: so many session players.

[90125yes]

Union is a decent album - good songs , leave aside the politics and enjoy the music

OYE is the worst album, rushed to get a product out - not a band effort

[TOBYSGRAPHICGOKART]

Union is a bit of a let-down but it isn't the worst.
That dubious honour goes to OYE by a whisker from Big Generator and Talk.
Tormato is just a couple of tracks short of being very good indeed.
The Ladder definitely has it's moments-good and not so good.
And Magnification is ruined by the orchestra,no proper keyboards and two or three really duff songs.

Somebody posted earlier that Union could've been half decent had all the members played together at the same time (like they did on tour) and I agree.

[90125yes]

Union is a bit of a let-down but it isn't the worst.
That dubious honour goes to OYE by a whisker from Big Generator and Talk.
Tormato is just a couple of tracks short of being very good indeed.
The Ladder definitely has it's moments-good and not so good.
And Magnification is ruined by the orchestra,no proper keyboards and two or three really duff songs.

Somebody posted earlier that Union could've been half decent had all the members played together at the same time (like they did on tour) and I agree.

____

yep - although i like all yes music

i have to agree with you

[the greenman]

I like Union way more than I like Tormato..

After the highs of Going for the One, Tormato was a bitter disappointment, a couple of good tracks, a couple with real promise, but overall a real let down. It felt compromised to me.

I know Union was a compromise of ABWH2 & Yeswest, but it works for me on so many levels. Not everything's a gem, & I know the band hated it, but it has a couple of stand out tracks.

[rabinmovies]

I've always found that Union was always a bit drawn out. The album was way too long for my liking. I get fidgety and bored by the time The more we live let go is on.
To me, i wish the album could have comprised the following track listing.

I would have waited forever
Shock to the system
Lift me up
Saving my heart
Miracle of life
Silent talking
The more we live - Let go
Dangerous
Take the water to the mountain.

Whenever I play the union album, this is what I set my cd player to play.

[bjlevine]

I like Union way more than I like Tormato..

After the highs of Going for the One, Tormato was a bitter disappointment, a couple of good tracks, a couple with real promise, but overall a real let down. It felt compromised to me.

I know Union was a compromise of ABWH2 & Yeswest, but it works for me on so many levels. Not everything's a gem, & I know the band hated it, but it has a couple of stand out tracks.

I'm really beginning to change my thoughts on Tormato. A few weeks ago someone put on the CD while we were setting up. I found myself really enjoying "Rejoice" when it broke in, and I had a hard time getting the melody out of my head the next couple of days. So now I'm working on an arrangement for a Tormato medley:

Future Times/Rejoice
Madrigal
On The Silent Wings of Freedom (pt 1)
Onward
On the Silent Wings of Freedom (pt 2)
Rejoice (reprise)

I still can't get into Circus of Heaven or Arriving UFO, but I think that Tormato is a better album than many give it credit for.

[90125yes]

I'm really beginning to change my thoughts on Tormato. A few weeks ago someone put on the CD while we were setting up. I found myself really enjoying "Rejoice" when it broke in, and I had a hard time getting the melody out of my head the next couple of days. So now I'm working on an arrangement for a Tormato medley:

Future Times/Rejoice
Madrigal
On The Silent Wings of Freedom (pt 1)
Onward
On the Silent Wings of Freedom (pt 2)
Rejoice (reprise)

I still can't get into Circus of Heaven or Arriving UFO, but I think that Tormato is a better album than many give it credit for.

----

Good

well said

[CybrKhatru]

Going against the stream again... my "worst" Yes album is Keys 2. :D

[Borris]

Union is an uneven album and the fact that the musicians had such a bad time with it does colour our perception of it.

I think Union has got some good stuff on it but I seldom listen to it right through. In the end it comes to personal preference. I don't even have a copy of Big Generator, which i heard when it came out & was unimpressed I recently got Talk as I had read many glowing reports of it, but I haven't warmed to it. For me 90125 was a pretty good album but that satisfied my need for Rabin material, it was a focused album, the production and the material fit together, it has a sense of inevitability about it. It was also a reinvention of the band. But in the end I admit Rabin's talent but am unmoved by it. It seems kind of MOR to me.

I'm not big on OYE, but I like it more than Talk, and find it easier to listen through than Union. I am happy putting it on every so often when I feel I have thrashed my other Yes albums too much, the main disappointment for me is the lack of a real keyboard player. So it is out of contention for my worst Yes album.

Quite a few people have mentioned Tormato as a worst album. Not for me, I love that album, I think the production is crappy although there are some great individual sounds on it. For me Tormato is full of character, those pet hates Arriving UFO and Circus of Heaven bring huge smiles to me, they are so quirky, original & fantastical. Onward is one of the most beautiful songs Yes have done, there is not a track on it I don't like.

I don't count the live albums and so judge Keys by Keystudio which i really like.

So I suppose Big Generator and Talk are my worst Yes.

[Roadkill]

I saw Steve Howe play Birkenhead Town Hall some years after the release of Union (I feel I've told this tale elsewhere but what the hey) and he played Masquerade, describing the album that it came from as being over-produced and that his own track he recorded himself and cost about a fiver! Consequently, it's one of the nicest pieces on the album. Great gig, he played a lovely little medley of Topographic, distilling the most tuneful pieces into one segment of music - beautiful - and, after a bizarre little excursion on the piano, which he abandoned with the remark "What am I doing? I'm a guitar player!" And then did My White Bicycle as an encore. Wonderful, magical little gig.

Back to Union, though! Yes, it does go on a bit and it's not paced particularly well, having no great opening nor a great ending.

We're talking a lot about Tormato, and I agree with the posters who aren't sold on Arriving UFO and Cirucs Of Heaven. The rest of it's good, though, and I think there was an awareness of the sea-change in music, with punk and everything. They still didn't compromise, but there is a sense of dynamism in tracks like Silent Wings Of Freedom that is very refreshing.