How About John Coltrane?

[todd de sunhillow]

Listenin' to some of 'trane for so many years, still, everytime I listened with his SUNSHIP album, wow, it makes me wonder...still figuring it out...
any opinions?
Stellar Regions are far out, I love this also...:rcking:
:rightG:

[Imperatrix]

My faves are A Love Supreme...and Giant Steps, Blue Train, and My Favorite Things...he consistently blows me away!

[todd de sunhillow]

Some infos of the Great JOhn Coltrane....

Despite a relatively brief career (he first came to notice as a sideman at age 29 in 1955, formally launched a solo career at 33 in 1960, and was dead at 40 in 1967), saxophonist John Coltrane was among the most important, and most controversial, figures in jazz. It seems amazing that his period of greatest activity was so short, not only because he recorded prolifically, but also because, taking advantage of his fame, the record companies that recorded him as a sideman in the 1950s frequently reissued those recordings under his name and there has been a wealth of posthumously released material as well. Since Coltrane was a protean player who changed his style radically over the course of his career, this has made for much confusion in his discography and in appreciations of his playing. There remains a critical divide between the adherents of his earlier, more conventional (if still highly imaginative) work and his later, more experimental work. No one, however, questions Coltrane's almost religious commitment to jazz or doubts his significance in the history of the music.

Coltrane was the son of John R. Coltrane, a tailor and amateur musician, and Alice (Blair) Coltrane. Two months after his birth, his maternal grandfather, the Reverend William Blair, was promoted to presiding elder in the A.M.E. Zion Church and moved his family, including his infant grandson, to High Point, NC, where Coltrane grew up. Shortly after he graduated from grammar school in 1939, his father, his grandparents, and his uncle died, leaving him to be raised in a family consisting of his mother, his aunt, and his cousin. His mother worked as a domestic to support the family. The same year, he joined a community band in which he played clarinet and E flat alto horn; he took up the alto saxophone in his high school band. During World War II, his mother, aunt, and cousin moved north to New Jersey to seek work, leaving him with family friends; in 1943, when he graduated from high school, he too headed north, settling in Philadelphia. Eventually, the family was reunited there.

While taking jobs outside music, Coltrane briefly attended the Ornstein School of Music and studied at Granoff Studios. He also began playing in local clubs. In 1945, he was drafted into the navy and stationed in Hawaii. He never saw combat, but he continued to play music and, in fact, made his first recording with a quartet of other sailors on July 13, 1946. A performance of Tadd Dameron's "Hot House," it was released in 1993 on the Rhino Records anthology The Last Giant. Coltrane was discharged in the summer of 1946 and returned to Philadelphia. That fall, he began playing in the Joe Webb Band. In early 1947, he switched to the King Kolax Band. During the year, he switched from alto to tenor saxophone. One account claims that this was as the result of encountering alto saxophonist Charlie Parker and feeling the better-known musician had exhausted the possibilities on the instrument; another says that the switch occurred simply because Coltrane next joined a band led by Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson, who was an alto player, forcing Coltrane to play tenor. He moved on to Jimmy Heath's band in mid-1948, staying with the band, which evolved into the Howard McGhee All Stars until early 1949, when he returned to Philadelphia. That fall, he joined a big band led by Dizzy Gillespie, remaining until the spring of 1951, by which time the band had been trimmed to a septet. On March 1, 1951, he took his first solo on record during a performance of "We Love to Boogie" with Gillespie.

At some point during this period, Coltrane became a heroin addict, which made him more difficult to employ. He played with various bands, mostly around Philadelphia, during the early '50s, his next important job coming in the spring of 1954, when Johnny Hodges, temporarily out of the Duke Ellington band, hired him. But he was fired because of his addiction in September 1954. He returned to Philadelphia, where he was playing, when he was hired by Miles Davis a year later. His association with Davis was the big break that finally established him as an important jazz musician. Davis, a former drug addict himself, had kicked his habit and gained recognition at the Newport Jazz Festival in July 1955, resulting in a contract with Columbia Records and the opportunity to organize a permanent band, which, in addition to him and Coltrane, consisted of pianist Red Garland, bassist Paul Chambers, and drummer "Philly" Joe Jones. This unit immediately began to record extensively, not only because of the Columbia contract, but also because Davis had signed with the major label before fulfilling a deal with jazz independent Prestige Records that still had five albums to run. The trumpeter's Columbia debut, 'Round About Midnight, which he immediately commenced recording, did not appear until March 1957. The first fruits of his association with Coltrane came in April 1956 with the release of The New Miles Davis Quintet (aka Miles), recorded for Prestige on November 16, 1955. During 1956, in addition to his recordings for Columbia, Davis held two marathon sessions for Prestige to fulfill his obligation to the label, which released the material over a period of time under the titles Cookin' (1957), Relaxin' (1957), Workin' (1958), and Steamin' (1961).

Coltrane's association with Davis inaugurated a period when he began to frequently record as a sideman. Davis may have been trying to end his association Prestige, but Coltrane began appearing on many of the label's sessions. After he became better known in the 1960s, Prestige and other labels began to repackage this work under his name, as if he had been the leader, a process that has continued to the present day. (Prestige was acquired by Fantasy Records in 1972, and many of the recordings in which Coltrane participated have been reissued on Fantasy's Original Jazz Classics [OJC] imprint.)

Coltrane tried and failed to kick heroin in the summer of 1956, and in October, Davis fired him, though the trumpeter had relented and taken him back by the end of November. Early in 1957, Coltrane formally signed with Prestige as a solo artist, though he remained in the Davis band and also continued to record as a sideman for other labels. In April, Davis fired him again. This may have given him the impetus finally to kick his drug habit, and freed of the necessity of playing gigs with Davis, he began to record even more frequently. On May 31, 1957, he finally made his recording debut as a leader, putting together a pickup band consisting of trumpeter Johnny Splawn, baritone saxophonist Sahib Shihab, pianists Mal Waldron and Red Garland (on different tracks), bassist Paul Chambers, and drummer Al "Tootie" Heath. They cut an album Prestige titled simply Coltrane upon release in September 1957. (It has since been reissued under the title First Trane.)

In June 1957, Coltrane joined the Thelonious Monk Quartet, consisting of Monk on piano, Wilbur Ware on bass, and Shadow Wilson on drums. During this period, he developed a technique of playing several notes at once, and his solos began to go on longer. In August, he recorded material belatedly released on the Prestige albums Lush Life (1960) and The Last Trane (1965), as well as the material for John Coltrane With the Red Garland Trio, released later in the year. (It was later reissued under the title Traneing In.) But Coltrane's second album to be recorded and released contemporaneously under his name alone was cut in September for Blue Note Records. This was Blue Train, featuring trumpeter Lee Morgan, trombonist Curtis Fuller, pianist Kenny Drew, and the Miles Davis rhythm section of Chambers and "Philly" Joe Jones; it was released in December 1957. That month, Coltrane rejoined Davis, playing in what was now a sextet that also featured Cannonball Adderley. In January 1958, he led a recording session for Prestige that produced tracks later released on Lush Life, The Last Trane, and The Believer (1964). In February and March, he recorded Davis' album Milestones..., released later in 1958. In between the sessions, he cut his third album to be released under his name alone, Soultrane, issued in September by Prestige. Also in March 1958, he cut tracks as a leader that would be released later on the Prestige collection Settin' the Pace (1961). In May, he again recorded for Prestige as a leader, though the results would not be heard until the release of Black Pearls in 1964.

Coltrane appeared as part of the Miles Davis group at the Newport Jazz Festival in July 1958. The band's set was recorded and released in 1964 on an LP also featuring a performance by Thelonious Monk as Miles & Monk at Newport. In 1988, Columbia reissued the material on an album called Miles & Coltrane. The performance inspired a review in Down Beat, the leading jazz magazine, that was an early indication of the differing opinions on Coltrane that would be expressed throughout the rest of his career and long after his death. The review referred to his "angry tenor," which, it said, hampered the solidarity of the Davis band. The review led directly to an article published in the magazine on October 16, 1958, in which critic Ira Gitler defended the saxophonist and coined the much-repeated phrase "sheets of sound" to describe his playing.

Coltrane's next Prestige session as a leader occurred later in July 1958 and resulted in tracks later released on the albums Standard Coltrane (1962), Stardust (1963), and Bahia (1965). All of these tracks were later compiled on a reissue called The Stardust Session. He did a final session for Prestige in December 1958, recording tracks later released on The Believer, Stardust, and Bahia. This completed his commitment to the label, and he signed to Atlantic Records, doing his first recording for his new employers on January 15, 1959, with a session on which he was co-billed with vibes player Milt Jackson, though it did not appear until 1961 with the LP Bags and Trane.

In March and April 1959, Coltrane participated with the Davis group on the album Kind of Blue. Released on August 17, 1959, this landmark album known for its "modal" playing (improvisations based on scales or "modes," rather than chords) became one of the best-selling and most-acclaimed recordings in the history of jazz. In between the sessions for the album, Coltrane began recording what would be his Atlantic Records debut, Giant Steps, released in early 1960. The album, consisting entirely of Coltrane compositions, in a sense marked his real debut as a leading jazz performer, even though the 33-year-old musician had released three previous solo albums and made numerous other recordings. His next Atlantic album, Coltrane Jazz, was mostly recorded in November and December 1959 and released in February 1961. In April 1960, he finally left the Davis band and formally launched his solo career, beginning an engagement at the Jazz Gallery in New York, accompanied by pianist Steve Kuhn (soon replaced by McCoy Tyner), bassist Steve Davis, and drummer Pete La Roca (later replaced by Billy Higgins and then Elvin Jones). During this period, he increasingly played soprano saxophone as well as tenor.

In October 1960, Coltrane recorded a series of sessions for Atlantic that would produce material for several albums, including a final track used on Coltrane Jazz and tunes used on My Favorite Things (March 1961), Coltrane Plays the Blues (July 1962), and Coltrane's Sound (June 1964). His soprano version of "My Favorite Things," from the Richard Rodgers/Oscar Hammerstein II musical The Sound of Music, would become a signature song for him. During the winter of 1960-1961, bassist Reggie Workman replaced Steve Davis in his band and saxophone and flute player Eric Dolphy, gradually became a member of the group.

In the wake of the commercial success of "My Favorite Things," Coltrane's star rose, and he was signed away from Atlantic as the flagship artist of the newly formed Impulse! Records label, an imprint of ABC-Paramount, though in May he cut a final album for Atlantic, Olé (February 1962). The following month, he completed his Impulse! debut, Africa/Brass. By this time, his playing was frequently in a style alternately dubbed "avant-garde," "free," or "The New Thing." Like Ornette Coleman, he played seemingly formless, extended solos that some listeners found tremendously impressive, and others decried as noise. In November 1961, John Tynan, writing in Down Beat, referred to Coltrane's playing as "anti-jazz." That month, however, Coltrane recorded one of his most celebrated albums, Live at the Village Vanguard, an LP paced by the 16-minute improvisation "Chasin' the Trane."

Between April and June 1962, Coltrane cut his next Impulse! studio album, another release called simply Coltrane when it appeared later in the year. Working with producer Bob Thiele, he began to do extensive studio sessions, far more than Impulse! could profitably release at the time, especially with Prestige and Atlantic still putting out their own archival albums. But the material would serve the label well after the saxophonist's untimely death. Thiele acknowledged that Coltrane's next three Impulse! albums to be released, Ballads, Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, and John Coltrane with Johnny Hartman (all 1963), were recorded at his behest to quiet the critics of Coltrane's more extreme playing. Impressions (1963), drawn from live and studio recordings made in 1962 and 1963, was a more representative effort, as was 1964's Live at Birdland, also a combination of live and studio tracks, despite its title. But Crescent, also released in 1964, seemed to find a middle ground between traditional and free playing, and was welcomed by critics. This trend was continued with 1965's A Love Supreme, one of Coltrane's best-loved albums, which earned him two Grammy nominations, for jazz composition and performance, and became his biggest-selling record. Also during the year, Impulse! released the standards collection The John Coltrane Quartet Plays... and another album of "free" playing, Ascension, as well as New Thing at Newport, a live album consisting of one side by Coltrane and the other by Archie Shepp.

1966 saw the release of the albums Kulu Se Mama and Meditations, Coltrane's last recordings to appear during his lifetime, though he had finished and approved release for his next album, Expression, the Friday before his death in July 1967. He died suddenly of liver cancer, entering the hospital on a Sunday and expiring in the early morning hours of the next day. He had left behind a considerable body of unreleased work that came out in subsequent years, including "Live" at the Village Vanguard Again! (1967), Om (1967), Cosmic Music (1968), Selflessness (1969), Transition (1969), Sun Ship (1971), Africa/Brass, Vol. 2 (1974), Interstellar Space (1974), and First Meditations (For Quartet) (1977), all on Impulse! Compilations and releases of archival live recordings brought him a series of Grammy nominations, including Best Jazz Performance for the Atlantic album The Coltrane Legacy in 1970; Best Jazz Performance, Group, and Best Jazz Performance, Soloist, for "Giant Steps" from the Atlantic album Alternate Takes in 1974; and Best Jazz Performance, Group, and Best Jazz Performance, Soloist, for Afro Blue Impressions in 1977. He won the 1981 Grammy for Best Jazz Performance, Soloist, for Bye Bye Blackbird, an album of recordings made live in Europe in 1962, and he was given the Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award in 1992, 25 years after his death.

John Coltrane is sometimes described as one of jazz's most influential musicians, but one is hard put to find followers who actually play in his style. Rather, he is influential by example, inspiring musicians to experiment, take chances, and devote themselves to their craft. The controversy about his work has never died down, but partially as a result, his name lives on and his recordings continue to remain available and to be reissued frequently.

[todd de sunhillow]

My faves are A Love Supreme...and Giant Steps, Blue Train, and My Favorite Things...he consistently blows me away!

Wow that's a great top list of the 'TRANE:git[1]:

[CybrKhatru]

Y'know...every time I've dipped my toe into Coltrane's "free" period, I've always found the water too hot, too intense. I'm thinking about trying again...

Todd, do you have any recommendations? Our Coltrane collection basically stops at Crescent (which I love) and the aforementioned Love Supreme.

---Matt

[BillGuitar]

Y'know...every time I've dipped my toe into Coltrane's "free" period, I've always found the water too hot, too intense. I'm thinking about trying again...---Matt

I bought Giant Steps on the referral of my old bassist, and it was all over the place. It had the chaos hinted at in Sound Chaser, but even more out of control. Matt, maybe we both need to reinvestigate! Or maybe I should just shut up and play my guitar...er, bass!

[JL]

Giant Steps is about as far removed from Coltrane's "free" stuff as you can get.

The interesting thing about Coltrane's "free" period is the fact that he stuck his toe in throughout 1961 and early 1962, returned to more traditional stuff (including collaborations with Duke Ellington and Johnny Hartman) in late 1962 and throughout 1963, and gradually got more "out" starting with Crescent in 1964. By 1965 (my favorite Coltrane year), he had gone all the way, and stayed there.

The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings 1961 (w/Eric Dolphy on alto and bass clarinet) has some of Coltrane's earliest forays into free jazz, such as Chasin The Trane, Impressions, India, and the early version of Brasilia.

For those who love pre-1965 Coltrane (particularly stuff like Blue Train and Giant Steps), his free period can be quite shocking, and often not in a good way. The JCQ Plays, which consists of the first post-Love Supreme sessions from early in 1965, is a good bridge between the two worlds. This album features the JCQ using some well known standards as jumping off points (Chim Chim Cheree, Nature Boy, Feelin Good).

My number one 1965 Coltrane recommendation is First Meditations. NOT Meditations, but First Meditations. Any of the post LS albums that feature Pharoah Sanders will probably be a bit much for hard bop afficianados who are checking out Coltrane's free period for the first time. I'm a huge fan of late Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Eric Dolphy and Cecil Taylor, but Pharoah's work with Coltrane is a bit much even for me.

Expression, the first posthumous release, is surprisingly accessible for late period Coltrane. One possible explanation is that he knew that he was dying, and had something to say that was a bit more subdued. I have read some reviewer's speculation that he was perhaps planning to return to a more traditional style, but this is unlikely, as by all accounts he was very sick and knew he wouldn't live long.

Transition is another 1965 recommendation.

[Albedo]

Giant Steps is my favorite of what I have heard. Haven't heard any of the "free" stuff and I probably wouldn't like it, my foray into Ornette Coleman was not rewarding.

[CybrKhatru]

Giant Steps is about as far removed from Coltrane's "free" stuff as you can get.

The interesting thing about Coltrane's "free" period is the fact that he stuck his toe in throughout 1961 and early 1962, returned to more traditional stuff (including collaborations with Duke Ellington and Johnny Hartman) in late 1962 and throughout 1963, and gradually got more "out" starting with Crescent in 1964. By 1965 (my favorite Coltrane year), he had gone all the way, and stayed there.

The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings 1961 (w/Eric Dolphy on alto and bass clarinet) has some of Coltrane's earliest forays into free jazz, such as Chasin The Trane, Impressions, India, and the early version of Brasilia.

For those who love pre-1965 Coltrane (particularly stuff like Blue Train and Giant Steps), his free period can be quite shocking, and often not in a good way. The JCQ Plays, which consists of the first post-Love Supreme sessions from early in 1965, is a good bridge between the two worlds. This album features the JCQ using some well known standards as jumping off points (Chim Chim Cheree, Nature Boy, Feelin Good).

My number one 1965 Coltrane recommendation is First Meditations. NOT Meditations, but First Meditations. Any of the post LS albums that feature Pharoah Sanders will probably be a bit much for hard bop afficianados who are checking out Coltrane's free period for the first time. I'm a huge fan of late Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Eric Dolphy and Cecil Taylor, but Pharoah's work with Coltrane is a bit much even for me.

Expression, the first posthumous release, is surprisingly accessible for late period Coltrane. One possible explanation is that he knew that he was dying, and had something to say that was a bit more subdued. I have read some reviewer's speculation that he was perhaps planning to return to a more traditional style, but this is unlikely, as by all accounts he was very sick and knew he wouldn't live long.

Transition is another 1965 recommendation.


Hey John--

Thanks for the suggestions! We've got some of the Village Vanguard 1961 stuff, and I think I have heard The JCQ Plays before..that's been on my "pick it up at Amoeba" list for a while. ;) Crescent is one of my all time favorites, but that was 1964.


Speaking of Pharoah Sanders, some of his music I really like, although it's definitely a "right mood" kind of thing...albums like Karma and Tahuid in particular. And I too mostly find his collaborations with Coltrane too far-out for me!

But there's something about this music that periodically draws me back to it---maybe it's the knowledge of 'Trane's endless search to express himself.
I wonder if your ideas regarding the music he made prior to his death are spot-on...they seem very plausible!

---Matt

[JL]

Speaking of Pharoah Sanders, some of his music I really like, although it's definitely a "right mood" kind of thing...albums like Karma and Tahuid in particular. And I too mostly find his collaborations with Coltrane too far-out for me!

Pharoah eventually did some nice sounding stuff, but during his tenure with Coltrane he was attempting to ascertain how much a tenor saxophone could sound like a rabid elephant during mating season. He played a little less like this after a while, but throughout 65 and into 66, most of what he did with Coltrane was deliberately unmusical.

I think Dewey Redman found the right balance for that type of sax blowing on Ornette Coleman's New York Is Now and Love Call, but Pharoah never quite got the formula.

[todd de sunhillow]

Todd, do you have any recommendations? Our Coltrane collection basically stops at Crescent (which I love) and the aforementioned Love Supreme.

---Matt[/QUOTE]

Well Matt, recommendations...I'm not very sure, and so sorry about it, but,all I have are these LP's, cassette tapes (copied from some of my friends)and some cd samplers and of course cd's...
Blue Trane'
Soul Trane'
Giant Steps
My Fav things
Trane plays the blues
Africa/brass(samplers only)
Ballads
love supreme
Sun ship
Stellar Regions(one of my fav, but bit' deep)
Coltrane and Hartman

And some of his albums are bit well lets say free jazz, but sometimes I'm lost with his journey...
So all the mentioned above are just familiar with me...
:headset:

[CybrKhatru]

Thanks Todd...! I probably should have been more specific...we've got a lot of 'Trane's late 50s and early 60s stuff...I meant that our collection stops
chronologically with Love Supreme...;) We actually have a lot of the same titles you mention.

Sun Ship and Stellar Regions I will seek out and sample. And I've heard a lot of good things about Africa/Brass.

Thanks man!

---Matt



Well Matt, recommendations...I'm not very sure, and so sorry about it, but,all I have are these LP's, cassette tapes (copied from some of my friends)and some cd samplers and of course cd's...
Blue Trane'
Soul Trane'
Giant Steps
My Fav things
Trane plays the blues
Africa/brass(samplers only)
Ballads
love supreme
Sun ship
Stellar Regions(one of my fav, but bit' deep)
Coltrane and Hartman

And some of his albums are bit well lets say free jazz, but sometimes I'm lost with his journey...
So all the mentioned above are just familiar with me...
:headset:

[JL]

And I've heard a lot of good things about Africa/Brass.

Africa/Brass is outstanding!!! Africa is a stunningly powerful piece of music. All of the music on those sessions, but especially Africa, shows the wisdom Coltrane exhibited by hiring Elvin Jones.

[YYY]

What about John Coltrane.

Genius

[JL]

I've been listening to Stellar Regions for the last few days, This album is actually an excellent primer for anyone wishing to explore John Coltrane's free period. It is broken up into manageable chunks (the longest piece is just under nine minutes), and the tunes that serve as jumping off points consist of extremely pleasing melodies on Coltrane's part. Coltrane's solos are extremely expressive on this album, even for him. HIGHLY recommended!!!

[CybrKhatru]

JL....the package you sent arrived in the mail. THANK YOU! We'll start listening post haste! I think I'll start with Stellar Regions in fact...

---Matt

[Altres]

I'm listening now. Bloody great. McCoy Tyner was amazing too.

[PhaseDance]

I'm listening now. Bloody great. McCoy Tyner was amazing too.
I referenced Mr. Tyner earlier on another thread (http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?p=927057#post927057). Good stuff, that.

[JL]

I gave Giant Steps a spin last night, with this thread in mind. As I've heard it countless times, I stuck to the bonus tracks.

Coltrane does not stray from the changes at all, and the accompaniment is very static. It has always been my contention that this kind of slavish adherence to the changes only nominally qualifies as improvisation on the part of the soloist (and only the soloist). Don't get me wrong; I love the music (HUGE Dizzy Gillespie fan here), it's just nominally improvisational.

Coltrane manages to make a great deal of music within this framework. That is a testament to both his technical skill on his instrument and his awesome power as an improviser.

I came to a love of improvised music via Grateful Dead. Music that my brain has been programmed to identify as "improvisational" has a very open ended harmonic framework. When I first heard Ornette Coleman, his music registered in my head as "improvisational". When I first heard 50s Miles Davis, bebop giants like Parker, Dizzy and Monk, and the general Blue Note-Prestige 50s jazz sound, it did not register as "improvisation". Coltrane is the one artist I know of who has successfully called each world home, and dominated by the sheer force of his musicianship.

Half of the material on Giant Steps stayed in Coltrane's live repertoire for years, even when he went totally the free route. He revisited the Giant Steps changes in the middle of an improvisation on Suite from Transition in 1965. However, as an album it was an homage to the past. It showed his total mastery of bebop. I for one am quite happy that bebop exists, but when I am in a jazz mood, it is always for more avant garde stuff (unless I am specifically in the mood for Dizzy Gillespie). Giant Steps ends up serving to put me in the mood for mid 60s Coltrane rather than being a fulfilling listening experience in its own right.

I can see how the idea of free improvisation could seem tedious. That said, Coltrane's astounding technique, inate musicality, and breadth of imagination make his free improv quite rewarding to the music lover. It is those very qualities that keeps Coltrane from allowing the rigid adherence to the changes in Giant Steps serve as a hindrance to inspired improvisational music making.

[allpurechance]

Giant Steps is beautiful, glorious jazz.I too own the cd with the bonus alternate tracks.

JL, you can write some serious music reviews!

You are correct.Entirely.Giant Steps is compositional jazz, with areas within the compositions to do some limited improv.

But it is just great music!

[todd de sunhillow]

Hey JL, that was so cool, good said!!!

[CybrKhatru]

JL---very well-written commentary, and spot-on IMO!

At two different times I played in "improvisational" bands. One was a pop/jam band (believe it or not) which didn't record; the other was a completely improvised band, which did make a CD.

IMO to play truly "improvised" music is very tough, mostly because as human beings we tend to stick with familiar patterns. As a musician you have to be willing to "freefall"----to let go of what you "know" and not rely on the "cliches" that usually become part of an artist's vocabulary.

What is so extraordinary about Coltrane is that he could exist in both of these worlds, like you said. Whatever drove him to search for the "sound" in his soul took him everywhere, from the deeply melodic to the extremes of polytonality and atonality.

--Matt

[Whitefish]

One of the greatest musicians in history.

[JL]

....my foray into Ornette Coleman was not rewarding.

Mine was, and is. I love Ornette Coleman's music, especially with his original quartet with Don Cherry, Charlie Haden, and Billy Higgins. They were an amazingly intuitive group of improvisers.

[Sumire]

For me my favourites are:

- Sun Ship, also the first Coltrane I had ever heard.
- Village Vanguard (I love Coltrane of course but for me Eric is my number one)
- One Down One Up - BOLD!!!!!
- Dakar
- Black Pearls

[neilius]

I have his album 'A love supreme'. Great stuff!

[Ryan]

A fantastic album that no one has mentioned yet is Dear Old Stockholm. There's some pretty intense stuff on there, (No playing changes of course) but nothing too far out there.

I am just getting into the "free" period myself. I only own two post-Love Supreme albums, Ascention and Sun Ship, and they are both highly recomended.

Ascention is really really "out there". lots of group improv, atonality, that kind of stuff. Theres like 4 sax's, 2 trumpets, 2 drummers and 2 bassists, and piano or something like that, so as you might guess it gets really "dense". Its an amazing peice of work, but only get it if you're really adventurous. Its probably the most difficult album i own.

Sun Ship in my opinion is the classic quartet at their absolute peak. (A Love Supreme ties). My opinion may change though, i still have to get First Meditations, Live at the Village Vangaurd. and Kulu se Mama.

[Sumire]

When you get Live at the Village Vanguard be sure to get the complete box set... :)

[JL]

For me my favourites are:

- Sun Ship, also the first Coltrane I had ever heard.
- Village Vanguard (I love Coltrane of course but for me Eric is my number one)
- One Down One Up - BOLD!!!!!
- Dakar
- Black Pearls

Isn't Dakar one of the Prestige releases from around the same time as Black Pearls?

Would a post-Love Supreme Coltrane nut such as myself dig it if I'm view Black Pearls as one of the great jazz triumphs of the 1950s, way ahead of Blue Train?

[Sumire]

I think Dakar came one year before Black Pearls and yes, on Prestige.
Love love love the barritone saxes...

I just kind of realized I don't listen to Blue Train that much either...

I know some of my jazz instrument player friends told me they don't like Black Pearls much because it was a result of Prestige giving Trane written-by-unknown-people-music and so on but I still love this release though..

[new_sum_do_solve_ay]

I have not been into much Coltrane, but I have heard his songs played by Mahavishnu John McLaughlin and Carlos Santana who were both Coltrane fanatics. I have only heard Coltrane play a few tracks, I believe one was Love Supreme which was simply alive with improvisational motion.

But you know what impressed me tremendously was his wife! Yes, he married a musician. For those of you who don't know her name was Alice Turiya Coltrane (hope I spelled that right). Her specialty was the harp! of all things. I have always thrilled at the sound of a harp.

Well for those interested in such things tune into Carlos Santana's 1974 release 'Illuminations.' I would describe it as Santana's "Tales." He has four interlocking pieces of music thematically related. Throw in a heaping dose of Buddhist influence and a truckload of jazz that 'comes on cool and slow like some new language.' I mean the ensemble is so sensitive to dynamics here it's stunning. Jazz fans check out Alice Turiya Coltrane here these songs are just as relaxing and filled with positive spiritual energy as anything you've heard. But it is so far, I mean FAR away from top 40 material that it is the highest quality unsung rock album I've ever heard. "Illusions" is probably NOT available at a store near you. But find it.

[JL]

I think Dakar came one year before Black Pearls and yes, on Prestige.
Love love love the barritone saxes...

I just kind of realized I don't listen to Blue Train that much either...

I know some of my jazz instrument player friends told me they don't like Black Pearls much because it was a result of Prestige giving Trane written-by-unknown-people-music and so on but I still love this release though..

Actually, Bob Weinstock, the head of Prestige at the time, gets writing credit for one of the pieces.

The pieces, and the rest of the band, are fairly straight ahead late 50s Prestige jam session jazz. But Coltrane's solos on this album are truly mind boggling. I don't think I've ever heard anyone with such total command of the tenor saxophone. And this being Coltrane, the sheer magnitude of expression in the playing is unmatched by anyone except himself in the last five years of his life.

[Sumire]

Actually, Bob Weinstock, the head of Prestige at the time, gets writing credit for one of the pieces.

The pieces, and the rest of the band, are fairly straight ahead late 50s Prestige jam session jazz. But Coltrane's solos on this album are truly mind boggling. I don't think I've ever heard anyone with such total command of the tenor saxophone. And this being Coltrane, the sheer magnitude of expression in the playing is unmatched by anyone except himself in the last five years of his life.

Thanks for the info on who wrote those pieces, I don't actually know too much of the behind-the-scenes of Coltrane's stuff as I should!!

I think you really phrased that well; Coltrane's expression and really making something special out of something standard-er things.

[F.C.]

Trane was great. My faves are "John Coltrane Quintet With Eric Dolphy" (DEADLY twenty-minute "My Favourite Things" with Eric doing some of the most beautiful things I've ever heard in my life with a flute) and "Interstellar Space" (the very last recordings he did).

My fave saxmen though, are Dolphy and Coleman. "Vintage Dolphy"--which is his quartet with strings (beautiful Edgar Varése's "Density"), "Outward Bound", "Far Cry", "Out To Lunch" (I could go for donkey's years) really get me going. And Ornette's "Something Else", "Free Jazz", "Ornette On Tenor" (really bloody grand way of hearing the master's take on the tenor), "In Europe Vols. 1 & 2" (he even plays violin!)--once again I could go on forever.


But it's Trane we're talking about. So I'll say one thing about him: without him, it wouldn't exist such gems as the ones from Eric and Ornette that I've mentioned above. Starting with "Giant Steps", John really went into a bold foray in new grounds of music--he broke all the barriers.

Trane will always have a special place in my heart.

[Sumire]

I just wanted to add that the saxophonist, John Gilmore really inspired John Coltrane to go towards to the later direction we know so well. Gilmore was one of Sun Ra's main saxophonists. Coltrane took some informal lessons from him and we can see that inspiration and interaction in Chasin' The Trane.

Yes, honey, Dolphy is the epitomy of beautiful.
What's this about violin?????

Alice Coltrane's work is just incredible too.

[emerson_brady]

When Coltrane takes to the soprano (My Favorite Things,
Greensleeves, India), it's pure heaven.

Africa/Brass is my favorite Trane record. McCoy and Elvin alone
are worth the price of admission...

[YYY]

What about John Coltrane? What can you say about "The Greetest of his Time"

Just listen and watch (with Eric Dolphy)

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[emerson_brady]

Thank you, YYY! I didn't know footage with Dolphy existed. That was a real treat.



If you can, go check out McCoy Tyner on tour.


<!--StartFragment --><TR><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Thursday 10/19/06 8:00PM
</TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Page Auditorium
Duke University
Durham, NC </TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">McCoy Tyner Trio
Charnett Moffett
Eric Kamau Gravatt</TD> </TR><TR><TD valign="top" width="99%" colspan="3">


<HR noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Friday 10/27/06 8:00PM
</TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Zeiterion Theatre
684 Purchase St.
New Bedford, MA </TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">McCoy Tyner Septet: The Story of Impulse! Records
With Charnett Moffett, Eric Kamau Gravatt, Eric Alexander, Wallace Roney, Steve Turre and Donald Harrison</TD> </TR><TR><TD valign="top" width="99%" colspan="3">


<HR noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Saturday 10/28/06 8:00PM
</TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Ted Mann Theatre
University of Minnesota
Minneapolis, MN </TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">McCoy Tyner Septet: The Story of Impulse! Records
With Charnett Moffett, Eric Kamau Gravatt, Eric Alexander, Wallace Roney, Steve Turre and Donald Harrison</TD> </TR><TR><TD valign="top" width="99%" colspan="3">


<HR noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Sunday 10/29/06 7:30PM
</TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Clarice Smith performing Arts Center
University of Maryland
College Park, MD </TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">McCoy Tyner Septet: The Story of Impulse! Records
With Charnett Moffett, Eric Kamau Gravatt, Eric Alexander, Wallace Roney, Steve Turre and Donald Harrison</TD> </TR><TR><TD valign="top" width="99%" colspan="3">


<HR noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Friday 11/17/06 8:00PM
</TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Verizon Hall/Kimmel Center
260 South Broad Street
Philadelphia, PA </TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">McCoy Tyner Septet: The Story of Impulse! Records
With Charnett Moffett, Eric Kamau Gravatt, Eric Alexander, Wallace Roney, Steve Turre and Donald Harrison</TD> </TR><TR><TD valign="top" width="99%" colspan="3">


<HR noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Saturday 11/18/06 8:00PM
</TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Hogg Auditorium
The University of Texas, Austin
Austin, TX </TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">McCoy Tyner Septet: The Story of Impulse! Records
With Charnett Moffett, Eric Kamau Gravatt, Eric Alexander, Wallace Roney, Steve Turre and Donald Harrison</TD> </TR><TR><TD valign="top" width="99%" colspan="3">


<HR noShade SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Friday 12/1/06 8:00PM
</TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">Chicago Symphony Orchestra
220 S. Michigan Ave.
Chicago, IL </TD><TD class=txt valign="top" width="33%">McCoy Tyner Septet: The Story of Impulse! Records
With Charnett Moffett, Eric Kamau Gravatt, Eric Alexander, Wallace Roney, Steve Turre and Donald Harrison</TD></TR>

[JL]

Thank you, YYY! I didn't know footage with Dolphy existed. That was a real treat.

Footage of several performances Eric Dolphy did with Coltrane in the fall of 1961 are available on a DVD called Coltrane Legacy. It also includes the full performance from Ralph Gleason's Jazz Casual from 1963.

[Sumire]

There's also a DVD out with footage of Dolphy's quartet and also Dolphy's work with Mingus, Ted Curson so on.

And don't forget the beautiful documentary for Eric Dolphy, "Last Date"
That just came out on DVD recently too. It is superb.

[Sumire]

Rest in peace, Alice Coltrane...

[Fulcrum]

Word. A life well-lived.

[Imperatrix]

Alice, you did more for the harp than did Marcel Grandjany. Rest in peace.

[Buglunch]

I have not been into much Coltrane, but I have heard his songs played by Mahavishnu John McLaughlin and Carlos Santana who were both Coltrane fanatics. I have only heard Coltrane play a few tracks, I believe one was Love Supreme which was simply alive with improvisational motion.

But you know what impressed me tremendously was his wife! Yes, he married a musician. For those of you who don't know her name was Alice Turiya Coltrane (hope I spelled that right). Her specialty was the harp! of all things. I have always thrilled at the sound of a harp.

Well for those interested in such things tune into Carlos Santana's 1974 release 'Illuminations.' I would describe it as Santana's "Tales." He has four interlocking pieces of music thematically related. Throw in a heaping dose of Buddhist influence and a truckload of jazz that 'comes on cool and slow like some new language.' I mean the ensemble is so sensitive to dynamics here it's stunning. Jazz fans check out Alice Turiya Coltrane here these songs are just as relaxing and filled with positive spiritual energy as anything you've heard. But it is so far, I mean FAR away from top 40 material that it is the highest quality unsung rock album I've ever heard. "Illusions" is probably NOT available at a store near you. But find it.
Alice-
Saw her obit in local free paper today on the bus, didn't know her health was poor- two old old jazz books came into local bookstore from the 60s- no mention of her!
Sad day- ever seen Leon Russell's wife play onstage with him, too? Too often no mention until they pass.
:(

Just saw The Terminal with jazz greats shown in that also...

[JL]

Alice was a very interesting piano player. She stepped into the role in her husband's band after McCoy Tyner left (HUGE shoes to fill). Her delicate, harmonically ambiguous style really fit what Coltrane was trying to accomplish in the last couple of years of his life.

I think the main reason that she didn't appear in jazz books from the time was that the jazz illuminati of the time rejected the free/avant garde style that Coltrane adopted while Alice was with his band. Today, the reactionary Wynton Marsalis/Stanley Crouch school of thought stops paying attention to Coltrane after A Love Supreme. As far as I'm concerned, they are missing out on Coltrane's best music by doing so, and, more generally, have moved jazz from being a vital, contemporary art form to a stodgy, stale museum piece of the past.

Alice Coltrane was all about vital, contemporary art, in the face of opposition from reactionary purists. She will be sorely missed on many levels.

[rolloq]

My fave saxmen though, are Dolphy

Eric Dolphy s out to lunch is a great album.

Rolloq

[Buglunch]

Alice was a very interesting piano player. She stepped into the role in her husband's band after McCoy Tyner left (HUGE shoes to fill). Her delicate, harmonically ambiguous style really fit what Coltrane was trying to accomplish in the last couple of years of his life.

I think the main reason that she didn't appear in jazz books from the time was that the jazz illuminati of the time rejected the free/avant garde style that Coltrane adopted while Alice was with his band. Today, the reactionary Wynton Marsalis/Stanley Crouch school of thought stops paying attention to Coltrane after A Love Supreme. As far as I'm concerned, they are missing out on Coltrane's best music by doing so, and, more generally, have moved jazz from being a vital, contemporary art form to a stodgy, stale museum piece of the past.

Alice Coltrane was all about vital, contemporary art, in the face of opposition from reactionary purists. She will be sorely missed on many levels.
I agree; sad that an Old Boys' network exists in something as "free" as jazz. Many inportant women get ignored and players outside the main approach. Same thing happens to the best prog on 99% os all radio.

[todd de sunhillow]

I considered Alice as one the great Pianist ever...Rest In Peace...