That, That Is - the lost classic

[Andersonic]

I was reloading my MP3 player with some new songs and decided to include That That Is, from Keys To Ascension.

Lately I have been thinking about this one and when I heard again loud on my headphones it dawned again; That, That Is is the lost classic. Endless Dream? - Nice. Homeworld? Good Try. Mind Drive? Very good.

That, That Is holds so much more, now you put on, listen with headphones on or on your stereo. Listen again. And tell me what you think...

I would like Yes to play this one on stage; they were excited about it back in the days when they were discussing touring plans for KTA, we know it didn't happen but that song alone deserves a new chance!

[Vic Anderson]

yea :) i am with you
the lyrics are different but they only emphasizeTHE LIGHT

[Andersonic]

it's everything of this song; the bass, the drums, the guitar, the keys and Anderson's topping - all signs of a true Yes classic!

[True Believer]

I'd love to hear it performed live.

[Jonny]

I was reloading my MP3 player with some new songs and decided to include That That Is, from Keys To Ascension.

Lately I have been thinking about this one and when I heard again loud on my headphones it dawned again; That, That Is is the lost classic. Endless Dream? - Nice. Homeworld? Good Try. Mind Drive? Very good.

That, That Is holds so much more, now you put on, listen with headphones on or on your stereo. Listen again. And tell me what you think...

I totally agree.

I've always considered this song a true epic along with the likes as Close To The Edge or Awaken and at the same level, if not in parts better.
This is a modern 90's-version of a classic Yes-epic, and they proved they still could create these kind of beauties. And so they did a few times on their last album Magnification (We Agree, In The Presence Of). Let's hope they can deliver us some more in the future...

So what I like the most in That, That Is, is the few parts where the chorus comes up (I think essentially done by Squire), it makes me really dream and float in my head. True magic !

Jonny

[CybrKhatru]

I have a vivid memory of the first time Tasia and I heard That That Is...we were on the beach in early October of 96. A friend had gotten an advance copy of the new tracks and taped them for us to hear.

At that time I was blown away, to be honest. Even the much maligned lyric about "crack time" didn't bother me that much. Hearing TTI gave me a lot of hope for Yes' future with this lineup...I still believe it's overall a better, more fulfilling piece of music than Mind Drive.

And yeah, it is great on headphones!! :headset:

---Matt

[Jackaranda]

I'd love to hear it performed live.

Me too.

[The Whale]

I agree completly.

[YESOLA]

I was reloading my MP3 player with some new songs and decided to include That That Is, from Keys To Ascension.

Lately I have been thinking about this one and when I heard again loud on my headphones it dawned again; That, That Is is the lost classic. Endless Dream? - Nice. Homeworld? Good Try. Mind Drive? Very good.

That, That Is holds so much more, now you put on, listen with headphones on or on your stereo. Listen again. And tell me what you think...

I would like Yes to play this one on stage; they were excited about it back in the days when they were discussing touring plans for KTA, we know it didn't happen but that song alone deserves a new chance!



Yes this is a great track. It was the one that told me Yes was back to the type of music I thought was best for them to make. I really loved it then. I will take your sugesstion and listen with the headphones and all that.

[YesJen357]

Yea, it just serves to remind us how good the next album will be. These guys still have much untapped potential sitting idle.

[yes_angel]

that would be a excellent tune to open up for YES or close!! Awesome!!!

[robin chun]

Months ago I posted singing the praises of 'That,That is' and was generally slagged off for calling it a great piece of classic Yes music...glad so many of you like it.
Robin

[umgekehrt]

It's weak and that's why they're not going to play this song live ever. Too many fillers.

[Andersonic]

yeah..whatever...better keep busy with those Genesis polls...no fillers there eh?

[umgekehrt]

yeah..whatever...better keep busy with those Genesis polls...no fillers there eh?

Did I ever say there are no fillers in the Genesis polls?

[KPatrick]

Months ago I posted singing the praises of 'That,That is' and was generally slagged off for calling it a great piece of classic Yes music...glad so many of you like it.
Robin

You asked for comments...

http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?t=27693

I'm sorry if you took any of that as a slagging directed at you (especially since, looking back, I was even more fond than usual of the sight of my own words in print on that thread). But I don't see much in the way of slagging you off in this thread. I must be on record somewhere as being generally opposed to slagging other Yes fans on a board, unless the circumstances require it.

Anyhow, since everybody here seems to really dig "That That Is," I guess Robin's old thread shows the dissenting view for anyone who wants to see how their views have evolved... I stand by what I wrote...

[relayerjim]

I like the That, That Is but I love Mind Drive

[umgekehrt]

Yeah, I don't know why people take it personally. Other people could write about how much they love this song, and I'm okay with that. But if I write that I don't like it, I should only limit myself to posting in the Genesis forum?

[Joedude]

This would definitely be a tune I'd love to hear live.

[Andersonic]

Yeah, I don't know why people take it personally. Other people could write about how much they love this song, and I'm okay with that. But if I write that I don't like it, I should only limit myself to posting in the Genesis forum?

I know you won't do that Umgy...it was a bit of tongue in cheek comment. I didn't mean to be too blunt, I apologize for that.

I think That, That Is really is a great song that deserved/deserves to be played live and what I've read in interviews, the band really wanted to play it for the tour that was supposed to follow KTA.

What exactly do you mean with "Too many fillers"?

[Vic Anderson]

funny enough even if you cut the first 10 minutes

you are left with a brilliant another 10 minutes song

[pedro skychaser]

"that,that is"..(?)..hmmm,seemingly obtuse title---better one "gangLand symphony"?...could have used more soundEffects---collages of streetNoises---still mighty EPIC that(thatIs) they should play come 8-8-08 atop the greatWallOfChina-NOTHING CAN DIVIDE US TOUR!!!

----------twill be visible from space,people!!!--------------------------

[allpurechance]

"that,that is"..(?)..hmmm,seemingly obtuse title---better one "gangLand symphony"?...could have used more soundEffects---collages of streetNoises---still mighty EPIC that(thatIs) they should play come 8-8-08 atop the greatWallOfChina-NOTHING CAN DIVIDE US TOUR!!!

----------twill be visible from space,people!!!--------------------------

Peter.Don't take this too personally.I don't mean nuthin' by it.

But...

I love you, man...

LOL

Do, though.You're a hoot, fresh breath of air, a cold compress to the weary head all in one.

And entirely agree about That, That Is.Yeah, there's some filler.But by and large it's just great, great stuff...

[pedro skychaser]

look APC-no offence taken--i'm broadminded----love stars+have wheeled patients around hospital as an orderly+ love YES music...so we have 3 things in common...hahahaha...i just ramble like a character out of "waiting for godot"-(have performed as Pozzo years ago in a regional production))-always hopin'+a wishin' for the next eagle to land!!!!(with a rogerDean cover)...cheers!

[Dr Yes]

Andersonic will prossibly be surprised by this, but I LOVE "That, That Is". I love it far more than "Mind Drive" and am amazed they never went for it live.

I don't believe it's indicative of their possible future creative output, but it is DEFINITELY the lost classic from the 1990s, IMO. Okay, it's got a fews issues, but it hangs together well and sounds better with time.

There's one in the eye for those who think I am a misery guts about all things modern where yes is concerned. ;)

[Andersonic]

Not suprized Dave...glad is the word! I guess they went for Mind Drive because WE over here kept talking about it as it was a XYZ (Ex Yes Zeppelin) song that re-appeared on KTA2.

We should have talked about That, That Is...so keep this thread alive people!

[umgekehrt]

I know you won't do that Umgy...it was a bit of tongue in cheek comment. I didn't mean to be too blunt, I apologize for that.

I think That, That Is really is a great song that deserved/deserves to be played live and what I've read in interviews, the band really wanted to play it for the tour that was supposed to follow KTA.

What exactly do you mean with "Too many fillers"?

Hey Winston, I guess I have to apologize too. Yesterday was just not my day and I was a bit cranky. My bad :)

In all honesty, I think all Keystudio songs have too many fillers. But let's dissect That That Is.

The intro reminds me too much of Turn Of The Century, which is also not one of my favourite songs.

Then comes the part that sounds like world music to me (chanting and drumming). Again, I'm not very much into world music in general. Not even all the Peter Gabriel world music stuff.

After that, though, the first verse is pretty good and delivers a lot of promise. But then I don't know why they slow down again so abruptly. Seems to me that if they already get that tempo, they should keep it and go to something great like Sound Chaser. This is what I call filler.

The rest of the song is like that, a buildup to a climax that is never fulfilled. To be fair, the guitar/keyboard/bass instrumental near the end is my favourite part of it, and this song does indeed finish with a bang. But I feel strongly that they should've tightened it up a bit more before recording it.

[Andersonic]

Play it with headphones on and/or really loud...Chris's bass is roaring, swinging and daring. The band really blends together in this song.

[robin chun]

You asked for comments...

http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?t=27693

I'm sorry if you took any of that as a slagging directed at you (especially since, looking back, I was even more fond than usual of the sight of my own words in print on that thread). But I don't see much in the way of slagging you off in this thread. I must be on record somewhere as being generally opposed to slagging other Yes fans on a board, unless the circumstances require it.

Anyhow, since everybody here seems to really dig "That That Is," I guess Robin's old thread shows the dissenting view for anyone who wants to see how their views have evolved... I stand by what I wrote...

KPatrick,Sorry,perhaps 'slagging off' was too harsh a term,I should have said..strongly dissagree,but on re-reading that thread many comments were positive,and perhaps my frustrasion at why others can't hear what I hear came out as that unfortunate phrase..but I ought to realise that as I have said myself..one mans meat is another mans poison.
Thanks,Robin

[Witch Seasoner]

IMHO, there are definitely moments of great beauty in this song. I do like the whole of it, but I think it's too. . .clean. Needs some grit. It's kind of got a Relayer like feel to lots of it, but without the hard edge. Get some distortion on that guitar, and the bass, and everything else! :)

[marklovesyes]

I was totally bummed when they did not play during the 1997/98 tours.

'That Is' is one of my favorite sections of YES music.

[prem895]

I'm surprized that noone has commented on Be The One. I love Steve in this tune.

[cvp18]

i love the whole album. That, that is is a great song, but i find something more magical in Mind drive. but, as is always true for me with Yes, i can get something from every song.

carol

[yes_angel]

in concert that would be awesome!!! i always felt that song would be so cool closeing a show

[Squireaholic]

I'm surprised at you, Umge: There are no fillers in Yes music. Just ask anyone who loves Tales as much as i do!

[Timmo]

I LOVE That, That Is.

I think the "cracktime" lyric aptly describes the mental state of someone who's been smoking crack. Time takes on a whole new meaning.

The whole song works for me, but then, Keysstudio is one of my favorites.

[luckeydoug1]

Let me start my reply by saying I do not believe that a song is a classic just because it is a long song. I just finished giving this song a spin because it has been quite a while since I last listened to it. I didn't remember disliking the song, but I also did not remember being overly in love with it either. After listening to it just now, my memories were refreshed. The following quote from another post states my position quite well:
i think "That That Is" exemplifies the missed opportunity of KEYS. Several incomplete song fragments crammed together to make a 20-minute song so all the fans who screamed bloody murder about Trevor Rabin being in the band will be happy again. I mean, it's got 6 subsections, for God's sake. And I know that's as much about publishing as it is anything else, but there's no relationship between the major sections of the song. Those sections are nice in and of themselves, though.

... It is lovely sounding music, for the most part, I just don't think it holds together as a song.

I agree that there are many beautiful parts to this song, but I also agree that it just seems like several bits connected together to create one long song. I also agree with quite a bit of this post:

In all honesty, I think all Keystudio songs have too many fillers. But let's dissect That That Is.

The intro reminds me too much of Turn Of The Century...Then comes the part that sounds like world music to me (chanting and drumming).... After that, though, the first verse is pretty good and delivers a lot of promise. But then I don't know why they slow down again so abruptly. Seems to me that if they already get that tempo, they should keep it and go to something great like Sound Chaser. This is what I call filler.

The rest of the song is like that, a buildup to a climax that is never fulfilled. To be fair, the guitar/keyboard/bass instrumental near the end is my favourite part of it, and this song does indeed finish with a bang. But I feel strongly that they should've tightened it up a bit more before recording it.

For my money the three "modern classics" are Endless Dream, New Language, and In The Presence Of. I think these three flow better as a whole song with a theme running throughout.

So, while I did enjoy listening to That, That Is again, I am left with the overall feeling that it does not quite compare with the following songs I consider to be the true classics:

Heart of the Sunrise
And You and I
Siberian Khatru
Revealing The Science of God
The Remembering
Ritual
Awaken
I'm Running
Endless Dream
New Language
In The Presence Of

[Bobby Dread]

So, while I did enjoy listening to That, That Is again, I am left with the overall feeling that it does not quite compare with the following songs I consider to be the true classics:

Heart of the Sunrise
And You and I
Siberian Khatru
Revealing The Science of God
The Remembering
Ritual
Awaken
I'm Running
Endless Dream
New Language
In The Presence Of


Wow Doug, no Close To The Edge? Add that, On The Silent Wings Of Freedom, Homeworld AND That, That Is and you'd be pretty close to what would probably be on my list. Actually, if you're not talking about epic-type songs, I'd have to add another 40 or 50 Yessongs that are classics to my ears!

I always got into That, That Is more than Mind Drive. I'm still not exactly sure why , but I probably get more of that cobbled together feeling from Mind Drive. I give That, That Is a honest 10 out of 10. A very original Yes song. The lyrics bridge the worst aspects of our human-ness with an inspiring, hopeful spiritual theme. A true masterwork in my book.

Mike

[yes_angel]

where did heaven begin,,,,,,,,,,,,