Too many sub-forums

[khalpin]

I'd love to actively participate in Yesfans, but (pardon the criticism) there's too many damn forums and sub-forums. Browsing the web-site is like navigating a labrynth. You've got Yes-stuff, General Discussion, Yes-live, Non-Yes music and maybe 2 or 3 other sub-forums. That should be it. I joined this site over a year ago and try to visit once in a while but every time I come here, I get fed up after about a minute.

Also, did you ever notice there's 13 stickies on the Trading Room forum? 13! That's just silly.

Sorry to criticize the website but I'd like to partake in discussions here but I can't stand the site's format. Oh well.

[1yesfan]

Got to stick around more, learn the ropes. Yes it is a bit much at first but that is just the way it has become. Frankly I am suprised I have not got more posts like this. This is the first one like this in some time.

[illusion]

I've mentioned it plenty of times. It's very disorganised. Over time as forums have been added it's got into a complete mess.

I think that a research trip to the Dream Theater forum would be beneficial - thats got a similar level of traffic yet is far more organised.

[RickyG]

If you give it a chance, you find the places that appeal to you and you can ignore the rest.

There are entire areas of the "labyrinth" that I never, or rarely, visit.

But it's a big community and it accomodates alot of interests and views. Which is a good thing!!

True, if you only visit once in awhile, it can be difficult to learn the streets...

[umgekehrt]

Well it's not ideal, and the forum crash was actually a chance to start anew.

[illusion]

Looking at http://www.dreamtheater.net/bb/

There are 18000 members, three times as many as here.
95 users online. A few more than here. So it's a good comparison.

There are three forums, with subforums:

Essential Reading
General Discussion
Polls
Political/Religious discussion
Market Place

Dream Theater
Octavarium (latest album)
Concert reviews
Side Projects
Bootlegs

There are then seven subforums for members of the forum who play instruments to have musician related discussion.

Using this as a model you could have:

Announcements
Off topic, split into General, Politics/Deep discussion, Polls, Music (No need for pointless band specific subforums IMO), Games and Birthday announcements.

Yes, split into General, Tours, Solo and side projects.

Bootleg trading forum

A forum for Musicians.

A forum for seperate local gatherings.


I don't see why any other forums are needed. This would improve Yesfans substantially.

[smatt]

This forum is a rather large one.... I do think at times it could be organized a bit better really. And that the sticky thing is a problem, there are far too many outdated stickys around, which makes it harder to see the newest "relevant posts in each forum. But that has to do with each Mod. and whether they're paying attention to what's really happening in the particular forums they moderate. But in the end, for the most part the main Yes Topic" forums are rather easy to navigate. It's all the others that can be a bit confusing, but with a little work, it can easily be done...

[Sheerah]

I just went over to check out the DT forum and I had to log in. I couldn't log in because there was no place to register. I would have thought I could have viewed the thing as a guest.

[PhaseDance]

I just went over to check out the DT forum and I had to log in. I couldn't log in because there was no place to register. I would have thought I could have viewed the thing as a guest.
Perhaps the only reason they have 18000 "members" (three times as many as Yesfans!) is because they force you to login to read it even once. Yesfans allows you to read as a guest and decide if you want to become a member of the community.


Well...the system works most (http://www.yesfans.com/showpost.php?p=842343&postcount=20) of the time.

[prem895]

We are a complexed lot to say the least

[gitsy]

I don't think this site is so bad at all. Every time I visit I just use the new post or last three day tab. I do search at times but not often.

[PhaseDance]

We are a complexed lot to say the least
Yer darned-tootin' we are.

[smatt]

Perhaps the only reason they have 18000 "members" (three times as many as Yesfans!) is because they force you to login to read it even once. Yesfans allows you to read as a guest and decide if you want to become a member of the community.


Well...the system works most (http://www.yesfans.com/showpost.php?p=842343&postcount=20) of the time.


I just visited the DT chat site and took a look around...... Yes, I believe the high membership has everything to do with the Log-In requirement. The site appears to be more of an "Official" band chat site, whereas Yesfans is indeed linked at Yesworld, it in no way is controlled by Yesworld or the band members. The advantage of the DT set-up is that the band can send mass e-mails about news, ect to all the registered fans. Tim, does on occasion set Yesfans so that you must register to read, but not often. And rarely sends out mass e-mails to all users.

Again, I think at times this site can be a bit confusing to some. But it's a democracy to a fault and so things aren't always what some members or Mods for that matter want.....

[tormatotork]

I propose a sub forum wher we can address this matter from a different angle.

[Sheerah]

I propose a sub forum wher we can address this matter from a different angle.

Troublemaker!

[Orbert]

The DT forums only became "members only" earlier this year, or maybe it was late last year, in response to the huge number of flaming posts regarding the band's latest release, Octavarium. The DT audience is generally much younger than the Yes audience, and the place was being overrun by immature idiots, all complaining about the new album. Since it is indeed part of the official band site, the mods and admins there took this turn very seriously and after numerous pleas to try and keep things civil, they ended up instituting the current policy. It was only supposed to be temporary, but since it's worked out so well, I think they may have decided to keep it that way. It never bothered me, as I've been a member there for years, same as here. There is a high member count, for sure, but I'm not sure it's such a bad idea to disallow anonymous Guest posts.

I do find it much easier to navigate there than here. Yes, there are more subforums here, including separate subforums for each of a number of prog bands, but I too have tried a few times in the past to "browse" the site and eventually just plain given up. I've been hear for years now and still have never figured out the organization of forums and subforums. I gave up and just use the New Posts and 3 Days Posts buttons. Those work well most of the time, but if you feel like starting a new topic, and you have to navigate through three levels and sublevels, some of which do not really have very intuitive names, it can really be frustrating. That's why I rarely start topics; I usually can't find the forum where it would belong, even if I know the name.

[Timmo]

I had the opposite reaction. The DT site is TOO simple, and it's hard to find much of anything specific because there are so FEW forums. Interesting threads get buried almost immediately.

Although it takes a bit of time to learn your way around, Yesfans makes it EASIER to find stuff. Things may be able to be labeled better for the noobs however.

A few great tools are the "forum jump" and the "today's posts" and "three day posts." Aside from the forums I moderate, usually I start with the latest posts search functions.

[JaneEyre]

I can't stand the way this place is organised. That's why I hardly ever post.

[luckeydoug1]

For the most part I use the "3 days posts" search function. This easily shows me the recent posts and I can decided which threads to participate in. Only very rarely do I actually use the forum/subforum method, and that is usually to start a thread.

[illusion]

I had the opposite reaction. The DT site is TOO simple, and it's hard to find much of anything specific because there are so FEW forums. Interesting threads get buried almost immediately.

Although it takes a bit of time to learn your way around, Yesfans makes it EASIER to find stuff. Things may be able to be labeled better for the noobs however.

A few great tools are the "forum jump" and the "today's posts" and "three day posts." Aside from the forums I moderate, usually I start with the latest posts search functions.

Wouldn't a middle ground between the two be a good idea?

[yesyadda]

I had thought of suggesting "freezing" forums and threads. When you look at it, there's a forum for everything right now, and threads to discuss just about anything about everything. Er does that make sense?

[InverYes]

I always just use "new posts" and scan through those and then "3 day posts" to pick up any new ones since I logged on. Never found it a problem although I can see it may be if you're not a frequent visitor.

I can't see how we can make any significant reduction in the number of forums without it becoming harder to find things - wouldn't merging some existing forums together just make it harder to find a specific thread?

[Rick N Backer]

I think there's too many subsites too, especially where they relate to The Syn. Why for God's sake? There's too much mention of anything even REMOTELY Yes related. If we're going to have links to some obscure band because they record on Trevor Horn's label, why don't we go the whole hog?

Let's have links to:
Mercedes Benz (Steve Howe drives them)
Accrington Tourist Board
Dulux Paint (They have a shade called White)
The Yes car company. They named their car after our band.
Brent Cross Shopping Centre (I saw Chris Squire there once)

Get real. isn't this about Yes?

[Sheerah]

Since many of you know that there are many sub-forums, then you must have visited them. So, CONGRATULATIONS!!!! You know your way around the site!!!

[InverYes]

There's too much mention of anything even REMOTELY Yes related.

For example ?

[Buglunch]

I'd love to actively participate in Yesfans, but (pardon the criticism) there's too many damn forums and sub-forums. Browsing the web-site is like navigating a labrynth. You've got Yes-stuff, General Discussion, Yes-live, Non-Yes music and maybe 2 or 3 other sub-forums. That should be it. I joined this site over a year ago and try to visit once in a while but every time I come here, I get fed up after about a minute.

Also, did you ever notice there's 13 stickies on the Trading Room forum? 13! That's just silly.

Sorry to criticize the website but I'd like to partake in discussions here but I can't stand the site's format. Oh well.
I find most of that could be solved with better forum trees: I've gone into some once and never again or it takes a long time to find one again.
And having many auto-e-mails for trplies clogs the inbox terribly.
I prioritize these with highest being "instant notify" and weekly for lower.
Otherwise I frequently cannot locate sub-fora at all even if not busy.

There is a better way to fan out the links here but the genius that could do it and has the time?.........

[BrianD]

Keep the ideas coming in - we are very receptive to constructive suggestions about improving the way Yesfans functions. There are a lot of forums and subforums - often at the direct request of members - but they do tend to proliferate!

A bit of pruning every now and then might be useful.

[Earl Grey]

I think we should start a sub forum.

Enough can't be said of Cap'n Nemo and The Nautilus, ...as well as that Yellow Submarine of note.

I went through the archives, and I can't seem to find a single 'SUB' forum, perhaps I'm not going deep enough here. 20,000 Leagues and counting. :ele:

I personally like that I can't possibly read 'everything' on our beloved site. They say, 'The Devil Is In The Details', but I don't belong to 'They', and I like all the intricacies of Yesfans...

EG:yesbird:

[deelovesyes]

There is an easy way to see subforums

From the front page you will see 3 main forums Yesfans Talk, Yesfans Add Ons and Site Information.

From here you can click on the main heading of Yesfans talk (for example) it is now broken down into some sub forums, again click on one of interest to get an idea of what is in the sub area.

This is good to do if you are looking for an appropriate place to start a thread.
As far as finding new posts, I also use the 3 day post function, I find it easiest to see whats new.

[Yes2Yes]

The more time you spend here the easier it is to navigate.

[TNyesfan]

I personally like that I can't possibly read 'everything' on our beloved site. They say, 'The Devil Is In The Details', but I don't belong to 'They', and I like all the intricacies of Yesfans...

This subject is cropping up all over the internet lately.

I do feel for the newbies who are trying to get a handle on this site, but there is a pattern that works here. While this site is huge, I agree with Earl 100%, the diversity and intricacies are to be perused and enjoyed.

Any Jaron Lanier fans here? Go over to edge.org and read his new essay;
he "throws a lit Molotov cocktail down towards Palo Alto from up in the Berkeley Hills..."

A strong statement against collective thought. Interesting stuff. :ele:

[plodder]

As a relatively new member on here I did find it hard to navigate, but using the New Posts button I've managed to find my way to all the threads that are active.

[khalpin]

Oh my....I didn't think anyone would even read my post and now there's over 30 replies. There's certainly a lot of activity here. Either that or I really struck a chord and caused people to "defend" their site. I know how addictive message boards can be and we all call them our homes. Well, it sounds like the "3 days reply" and "New posts" are nice options. I will try that out now and do a little browsing. Thanks for your input everyone.

[1yesfan]

Don't feel bad KHALPHIN. This site was built in part on member input. Actually your post here has us (the staff) stepping back and looking at the site and evaluating what we need to clean up perhaps.

[1yesfan]

I think there's too many subsites too, especially where they relate to The Syn. Why for God's sake? There's too much mention of anything even REMOTELY Yes related. If we're going to have links to some obscure band because they record on Trevor Horn's label, why don't we go the whole hog?

Let's have links to:
Mercedes Benz (Steve Howe drives them)
Accrington Tourist Board
Dulux Paint (They have a shade called White)
The Yes car company. They named their car after our band.
Brent Cross Shopping Centre (I saw Chris Squire there once)

Get real. isn't this about Yes?


OUCH

[Simon B]

Make life simple? Nooooo. My mother called me Simon, I like simple things, but some things LIKE THE MUSIC OF YES I like complicated and thought provoking!

My 2 cents!

Simon

[Flo]

I second those who think there are too many subforums and that it is not easy to navigate.
If I were not visiting the site on a daily basis I would feel lost.
Whenever I'm away for a long period of time, I find it difficult not to miss what has been posted.
Without the New posts button and the 3 days posts, I don't know how I would do.

[1yesfan]

When I set this site up I intended to put more then just Yes stuff into the site. My thought back then, 5+ years ago , was that the site will be slow and not real active if we have strictly Yes forums. I wanted a place that folks could come and talk Yes or what ever is on your mind. We all are much more then just Yes, why not tap into that part of US. I think it has served the site well. We are a community now. Lots of people became close and now visit each other in person. I don't know how much of that takes place if the site is not what it is today.
That said, YES the site is a little disjointed and we will fix that up a little but as for wholesale changes I would not look for that to happen.
Past Yes talk many folks come here to post in many of our others forums that perhaps you may not even visit. I never get into the MEMBER ART and the like forums but there are those that do and they come here and post there and have their own little niche there with folks there that they have common interests in beyond just Yes.

[RickyG]

(Pre-script: Leave it to RickyG to go off the cosmic deep end with this thread too...!! ;) )

"Beware of too much efficiency.

Sometimes it seems a close cousin to Death.
We are encouraged not to linger, not to enjoy life,
to hurry up and get it done so we'll have time
for something else.

Efficiency the destroyer.... too many living dead, done in by the gas-powered leaf blower, instant and ubiquitous cell phone availability, global positioning implants.

Modern technology, modern business, the modern state give us everything we need...

...except breathable air, drinkable water, edible food, meaningful work,
freedom from fear, freedom to love, freedom to be ourselves, friendship,
hope.

The moral of the story is: don't be in such a hurry.
Beware creeping efficiency."

(~ The above adapted from the Paul Williams classic. "Das Energi")



Yeah, I really LIKE the fact that there are places around here that I HAVEN'T EVEN VISITED YET.

We are like Tales From Topographic Oceans.....
I still find new things in that music, 33 years later!!
To streamline TFTO, make it more efficient.... oh my, I couldn't even consider it.

(And I'd never want to model anything in my life after anything Dream Theatre does!! :winknudge )

[RickyG]

I think we should start a sub forum.

Enough can't be said of Cap'n Nemo and The Nautilus, ...as well as that Yellow Submarine of note.
EG:yesbird:

It could be sublime.
It could be subversive.
It could subsist on the substantial.
And stand on the substratum.
It could explore the suboceanic.
It would be subtlely subversive, but never subservient.
Possibly suborbital but never subordinate.
It might be subcelestial and submerged, but never subdued or submissive.
Submarginal? Maybe.

A sub forum...??
Submitted, for your subjective approval.

[Orbert]

And having many auto-e-mails for replies clogs the inbox terribly.
Go to your Control Panel and click Edit Options from the column on the left. Under Messaging & Notification, there are a number of options, including a drop-down box wherein you want to select "No email notification".

You're automatically subscribed to any thread in which you reply, so those of us who visit regularly don't need or bother with the email notification. Just check your Subscribed Threads from your Control Panel.

I have my Control Panel bookmarked, rather than the root level. From there, I can see all my subscribed threads, and have access to the New Posts and 3 Days Posts. Unless you're looking to start a new thread, that's all you usually need.

[Rick N Backer]

For example ?


Er....how about The Syn? What a complete waste of time. Or people plugging albums by bands who record on Trevor Horn's label just because he was once in Yes? What about the post a while back regarding 'Yes friend' Richard Branson? He did nothing more than socialise with Alan White and sell Yes' CD's in his shops. Come on. Why?

[Orbert]

Er....how about The Syn? What a complete waste of time. Or people plugging albums by bands who record on Trevor Horn's label just because he was once in Yes? What about the post a while back regarding 'Yes friend' Richard Branson? He did nothing more than socialise with Alan White and sell Yes' CD's in his shops. Come on. Why?
What do you have against The Syn? Chris was in The Syn until quite recently (or perhaps still, depending on who you ask), so The Syn are definitely Yes-related. Their area here makes at least as much sense as those devoted to Rick and Jon's solo tours. There is an actual musical connection there, which is not nearly as tenuous as "plugging albums by bands who record on Trevor Horn's label just because he was once in Yes". I call hyperbole on that one. There are sections for other prog bands because many if not most Yesfans listen to these other bands, and it makes sense to have a place to discuss them. To my knowledge, we don't have an area devoted to bands on Trevor's label.

And what's wrong with a post about Richard Branson? He's a pretty famous guy, and the fact that he is a Yesfan and also has hung out with some of the guys may well be of general interest to people, especially other Yesfans. It's not like he has his own subforum.

The number of subforums here is daunting, but my main complaint is in how the tree itself is organized. It seems counterintuitive, and the labels aren't really that helpful. I don't think the answer is to eliminate subforums and areas, especially those that clearly have a place here, but to somehow find a better way of organizing them.

[Sheerah]

Er....how about The Syn? What a complete waste of time. Or people plugging albums by bands who record on Trevor Horn's label just because he was once in Yes? What about the post a while back regarding 'Yes friend' Richard Branson? He did nothing more than socialise with Alan White and sell Yes' CD's in his shops. Come on. Why?

One of the reasons that Yesfans is so popular is because of the wide range of topics that we discuss. If we only talked about Yes music, we'd be rehashing the same sentiments over and over and over again.

[smatt]

What do you have against The Syn? Chris was in The Syn until quite recently (or perhaps still, depending on who you ask), so The Syn are definitely Yes-related.

I can assure you Chris is no longer in The Syn! But nevertheless they were and are still Yes related. So appropriate....

Er....how about The Syn? What a complete waste of time. Or people plugging albums by bands who record on Trevor Horn's label just because he was once in Yes? What about the post a while back regarding 'Yes friend' Richard Branson? He did nothing more than socialise with Alan White and sell Yes' CD's in his shops. Come on. Why?

It's a big sprawling site, that has not been hampered in it's growth. If it was hampered or controlled to the point that some of the other Yes sites were.. Well there'd be crickets just like those other sites. Some like it that way, some don't, there are many different tastes. Personally, I like a lot of action, there's plenty of thinking threads, or strictly Yes related music threads in the appropriate forums. And for those that've been bored to death discussing the realtionship of a Purple wolfhound (no offense Phil ;) ) to a Siberian Khatru, or whether Steve Howe can beat up Trevor Rabin, well there's lots of other things to talk about. The one commonality we all have is the love of Yes music. But that doesn't mean it's the only one....

[Purple Wolfhound]

And for those that've been bored to death discussing the realtionship of a Purple wolfhound (no offense Phil ;) ) to a Siberian Khatru
No offense taken smatt...now refresh my memory about this Siberian Khatru. Was she blonde, blue eyed, about 5' 8", nice figure and has a masters degree in Yesology? :winknudge

[smatt]

No offense taken smatt...now refresh my memory about this Siberian Khatru. Was she blonde, blue eyed, about 5' 8", nice figure and has a masters degree in Yesology? :winknudge


:lmao: That's her.. But she's mine ;)

[Silent_wings]

:lmao: That's her.. But she's mine ;)

The bunnies will be jealous

[smatt]

The bunnies will be jealous


Hey.. My bunnies like company...

:thinking: Hey we need a "Bunny" forum... I'm sure the Yes guys like bunnies... :lol:

[inside_out]

I think we should start a sub forum.

Enough can't be said of Cap'n Nemo and The Nautilus, ...as well as that Yellow Submarine of note.

I went through the archives, and I can't seem to find a single 'SUB' forum, perhaps I'm not going deep enough here. 20,000 Leagues and counting. :ele:

I personally like that I can't possibly read 'everything' on our beloved site. They say, 'The Devil Is In The Details', but I don't belong to 'They', and I like all the intricacies of Yesfans...

EG:yesbird:

I shook my head and smiled a whisper, knowing all about the place.
On the hill we viewed the silence of the valley,
Called to witness cycles only of the past.
And we reach all this with movements in between the said remark.

[Ancient tales]

Hey.. My bunnies like company...

:thinking: Hey we need a "Bunny" forum... I'm sure the Yes guys like bunnies... :lol:

I LOVE Bunnies!!!

Cherry

[luckeydoug1]

One of the reasons that Yesfans is so popular is because of the wide range of topics that we discuss. If we only talked about Yes music, we'd be rehashing the same sentiments over and over and over again.
And even with this wide range of topics we discuss we still manage to rehash [many of] the same sentiments over and over and over again. :winknudge

The one commonality we all have is the love of Yes music. But that doesn't mean it's the only one....
A fact that cannot be stated enough. I love the diversity on this site. There are a myriad of topics to discuss and nearly as many battlefields to jump into if you care so to do. The bottom line for me is there are many, many good people here who are willing to share on many topics and on many levels.

[Sheerah]

And even with this wide range of topics we discuss we still manage to rehash [many of] the same sentiments over and over and over again. :winknudge

Amazing, ain't it?

[Bluebird71]

Lol, Yesfans mirrors the music of Yes so well; sprawling, complex, never taking the easy route. Personally I've always cherished this labyrinth of a message board because it can surely provide a real adventure if you have enough time in your hands! :D (This sub-forum, for example, I have rarely visited, so it made for a nice little side path tonight...)

Me, I'm not too obsessed with keeping up with all the latest threads and posts so I have a handful of regular sub-forums I visit most of the time. For all my exceedingly poor navigating skills out there in the real world, I always seem to find my way around here, heh.

Some tinkering could be done, maybe, but not to the point where this great forum loses its unique character :)

[edited for spelling]

[cinderella]

I'm sure I haven't seen everything that's here. I normally read what pops up on the front page and a few pages back. When I have a specific thing I'm looking for I'll do a search.

If I really want to dig, I'll check through the archives.

There's a lot of forums here I've never been in, but I'm glad they're here. I got into Gentle Giant about 2 years ago, and I began going in to their forum here to read threads about the albums and music. It was a big help. The same with Marillion, Tull and others.

[Yes.2]

There arn't to many sub-forums. Why would someome sudjest such a thing?