DRAMA: Your opinions

[illusion]

It suprises me how an album that was probably the most controversial in Yes history does not get discussed much here.

I can see the Melody Maker headline now: "Buggles replace Anderson and Wakeman in Yes", or similar. It sounds like some sort of joke.

I personally love it. Downes is an adequate replcement for Wakeman. Nothing can replace Jon's vocals or lyrics, but Trevor Horn manages to sing on the album fairly well. I didn't see the tour, as it was five years before I was born, so I can't comment on Horn singing the Jon songs. I don't think I would have liked it though, no-one should sing And You And I and Roundabout apart from Jon. (If anyone has any Horn live era MP3's that I could hear, please PM me)

I think another problem with Horn was his image. He just looks completely wrong for a rock band. Those glasses are just hideous.

I like all the songs on the album, even "Into The Lens", which seems to get bad reviews.

Man In A White Car and Machine Messiah are my favourites.

In the 1977-1983 era, it ranks higher than Tormato, but not as high as 90125 or Going For The One.

My rating for Drama? 8/10

[Martin Riley]

I really like DRAMA. The music has a vitality about it that had faded with Tormato and those dreadful Paris sessions. However well Trevor Horn performed on the album I'm afraid it's true that live he couldn't really cut it, which is not really his fault. I think it was management(and maybe a little vanity) that persuaded him to go along with it but yes, he couldn't really perform the Yes classics.

I seem to remember the press having a field day with the annoucement that The Buggles were joining Yes. I remember I was equally shocked myself, but the attempt to come up with the alternative names of The Yeggles or Bus smacked of journalistic desperation

[Nautilus]

I actually like the effect of Horn's voice straining on some of the lyrics of Machine Messiah. He sings "to finally unlearn our lessons and alter our stance!" with a kind of frantic zeal (especially in "Part III") that I've never heard out of Jon and which complements the song very well.
Other than that, his voice is just ... interesting.

Downes was an adequate replacement for Wakeman. The range of sound that comes out of his synthesizer, while somewhat abnormal for Yes (think of it this way: Wakeman's sound was always "tighter," and when Moraz got floaty, it was for a particular effect. Downes's keyboard set is fluid-sounding all the time), was obviously normal when you consider that he was used to a "band" with only two people in it.

[Martin Riley]

yeah, but the Buggles as a 2 piece band had only been very shortlived themselves at the time. Previously Horn & Downes had been in the backing band for disco queen Tina Charles(who had a couple of dreadful hits in the UK in the late 70s - I don't know if she did anything in the US). So Downes was familiar with working in a full band situation. And his Hammond sound was very welcome after Tormato's squeaky synth sound

[PaulH]

I have never been able to warm up to this album.
While it does have some great playing on it, I just can't think of it as YES music.
Perhaps the nature of the way it came together taints the way I feel....maybe.....I dunno.
If it came from a place that was perhaps more inspired, rather than...oh we just sold out a tour in the U.S. we better get a band together.
I think what was happening in the music industry in general, lent a sort of heavier sound to the disc, which is something I actually like about it.
I guess I have always counted Jon's spirituality as the compass of the music, and although this album has some great musicality
it seems like a great ship lost at sea.

[mrgone3]

Great line Paul H!... like a ship lost at sea. Without Captain Jon to navigate through the waters. But I liked the Jazzy direction the rest of the band wanted to take. I guess they needed help on vocals and keyboards. The duo of Downes and Horn was a strange choice. I really did not know who they were. I was in the military when this came out. I found out later who the Buggles were. But I never equaled this to the Buggles. I thought it had some fine musical moments in it. The lyrics were very weak. Perhaps Horn trying his hand at Anderson type poetry. The voice sort of worked,but you knew who was missing. It was a great loss. The album still succeeded in many ways. It holds a proper place in my collection. But does not get the play the others get.>JOE

[siberian khatru]

I think "Drama", like "Relayer" was an interesting departure for the band. Trevor and Geoff did a good job on the album. The live Drama show I saw at the Nassau Coliseum, however, was probably the worst Yes show I've been to. It was painful to hear Trevor strain and creak through 'And You And I', 'YIND' and 'Roundabout'. Geoff was OK but not nearly as good as either Rick or Patrick. The whole show had a deer-caught-in-the-headlights vibe to it. Steve's solos were not as crisp and Chris' backing vocals were lousy.

They did one song live, 'We Can Fly From Here', which was meant for a follow-up album. It's one of my favorite products of this lineup. 'Parallels' was performed a few times during the tour but it was god-awful.

[yesboy81]

Illusion, I have a thread called "Drama Tour" on this part of the forum, check it out. I'm very glad that some decided to bring up this part of Yestory into the forum. Drama is one of my favorite Yes albums (ranks pretty high with Relayer and Tales). I like it for the fact it was different, but yet at the same time it was still Yes-esque. To me it was a much needed break from the usual Yes album (not that each Yes album was the same). I like the dark atmosphere to the music and the album cover. The music itself is very much indeed "Dramatic". It's something that I can listen to on a rainy day. The album pretty much represents the state of Yes as it was before the Buggles joined and when they did join the group. It's not like with Relayer that it started off Dark (GOD) and then ended "dreamlike" (To Be Over). Drama started off dark and ended dark. Another thing added to Yes with the addition of the Buggles was the quirkiness in the lyrics. Bottomline of the album: The Buggles briefly revitalized Yes, musically, as they were going into a downward spiral in the aftermath of Tormato and the Paris Session. The playing was as top notch as ever. Trevor and Chris did a great job of filling in Jon's shoes on record (on tour, that's another story). The sound production was back to "Yessound" with Eddie Offord producing the backing track. Overall, Drama, to me is a very enjoyable album in the Yes catalogue.

Note: "We Can Fly from Here" was never intended for a follow up to "Drama". WCFH was actually the song that the Buggles wrote for Yes. Yes did record a demo of it, though Mike Tiano stated on NFTE that Steve Howe said that they never recorded. I feel though that the song should've been on Drama.

[illusion]

Yesboy81, is there any chance of uploading any individual tracks in MP3 format anywhere? I have a couple of Rabin era live tracks, Love Will Find A Way (acoustic) and Our Song, neither are on live albums.

Here's an idea: Is there any way that we could upload our favourite tracks from bootlegs onto a website anywhere, so we can all listen to different music?

The reason why I created the thread was because I listened to Drama a couple of days ago and enjoyed it. I forgot how good it was. I feel that it was yet another radical change of direction for Yes.

[Gustavo]

Have you heard Dream Theatre playing Machine Messiah with Steve as a guest? It’s awesome. You can check out a clip at yesmuseum.org. Steve actually smiles, if you can believe it.

I discovered Drama by accident. One of my roommates in college had a tape lying around and I borrowed it to check it out. He eventually moved out, and, well….
I kept the tape!

:D

I wished they would revisit these songs with Jon singing. It’s the only piece missing, since the music is great! I know people hate the “I am a camera” line, but I bet everyone would feel very different if it came from Jon. Being a photographer I kinda like the line.

[Tanbar]

stupid buggles

stupid trevor horn... can't sing roundabout...

nah, i'm just kidding. i do dislike the buggles, but that's all i know.

sooner,
*tink*

[Jackaranda]

I liked it a lot, and after the first time I saw them on that tour, I was really excited. I knew Jon would be back someday, but this was exciting stuff.

Unfortunately, fate delt Yes another blow (one of many). The second time I saw them in Nashville, Horn's voice was absolutely shot and gone. It was PAINFUL!! I had 3rd row seats and the band was trying their best to save the show. But people were walking out after 20 minutes. That's when you knew this was the end. Little did we know what would follow over the next three years....Jack

[mayor greezy]

Horn-rimmed glasses became very hip in Champaign High schools that year (1980), I myself wore the Horn-rims until about 5years ago.........

The Mayor

[Earl Grey]

You know, I LIKE that album!

Sure: I miss Jon. I miss his lyrics even more than I miss his voice: ...if Jon could have only added his hand to the words, I'd LOVE Drama.
As it is: I like Drama.

I'd love to hear Machine Messiah this tour: would Jon do it? Hmmm. Ya never know.

Sometimes Drama sounds a bit like an 80-fied version of UK. The guitar crunch is really fun to listen to: Howe's closest brush with Heavy Metal. I love the guitar-scrapes at the beginning of Machine Messiah... When I say I like Drama I probably mean that I LOVE Machine Messiah! The rest of the album is ok..... Filler compared to MM!
I kind-of wish this YES line-up had had another chance in the studio. There's always the feeling of having heard a 'band-in-process' while listening to this CD. A lot of untapped potential.
I would love to hear the 2nd album: wouldn't you?

As is, the 80's held further surprises for YES. And the 1980 line-up probably couldn't have generated a hit like 'Owner'.
But I bet, given a chance, they would have produced something 'hit-worthy'. I wonder what it would have been?......

Earl:yesbird:

[Martin Riley]

Trevor Horn became involved in so much chart success that I'm not so sure that that line-up couldn't have gone on to be succesful chart-wise. They were probably trying too hard to be prog-like to take on board Horn's more pop like sensibilities.

[Earl Grey]

That was some great production work there. You are probably right Martin. Now I really want to hear that second album!

:ele:

[RobAdams]

I didn't like DRAMA at the time it came out. Jon and Rick being absent was more than I was willing to accept. I listened to the whole album on the radio one night, and I just thought it sounded more like a band trying to sound like Yes, and not the REAL DEAL.....Soon after, a broadcast of a DRAMA TOUR show on the radio confirmed in my 18 year old mind that the singer was horrible, especially on the Yes classics.

I think I finally picked up a copy of DRAMA around 1984 or 1985. I think that knowing Jon was back in Yes, and that Trevor Horn's membership in the band turned out to be a temporary one, DRAMA was then easier for me to digest. To my surprise DRAMA really wasn't as bad as I had imagined it to be.

Now at 40, I've recently picked up the CD and I love it. I'm still glad this line-up wasn't permanent, but it certainly is a standout Yes album, just by its' unique sound. Nothing else is like it in the Yes catalog.

Imagine that! Me worried that a Yes line up would be permanent!!!

[Martin Riley]

I'm not sure about Seal but he certainly produced Art of Noise and Frankie Goes to Hollywood. Did either of them do anything in the US in the charts? Frankie in particular were massive over here for a couple of years, and Art of Noise were cutting edge techno art rock/pop/jazz/classical, anything at all really.

[Earl Grey]

He produced THAT?! Shame shame!

Maybe they wouldn't have had a hit! Haha! "I'm too sexy for my Camera!"

Naw, just doesn't swing!

:ele:

[Martin Riley]

No no no ......that was Right Said Fred.You're mistaking your Freds for your Frankies.
An honest mistake.....and not one to be ashamed of.

[illusion]

I belive that Horn is the only producer to have produced a number one hit in the US and UK at the same time (Owner and Relax). There is some stuff on Horn's production on the "Another Yes First" thread.

Did you know Steve Howe plays on "Welcome To The Pleasure Dome?" I've never liked Frankie Goes To Hollywood.


Machine Messiah - Great song!

What do you think to Man In A White Car? I think it should have been longer.

[Earl Grey]

Same thing. Different label!

I'm just goofing around: I think they would've had a hit. Not as big as Owner though... but who knows? And 'hits' aren't how I usually measure YES anyway... I like the weird tracks... longer than 10 minutes. Machine Messiah was LONG!

:ele:

[Martin Riley]

Oh my God...........fooled by an American..........and they're not supposed to 'do' irony.

But, hey, what the hell, you're right, prog rock should, of course, be judged by the length.

Of the songs that is.

[Earl Grey]

The Fish means WHAT? Haha...

My ancestor was the first off the Mayflower to be hung (For murder, not 'hung'... well, that too!) in the New World... What can I say?!

True!

:ele:

[Martin Riley]

Now we're delving too far into the realm of innuendo.Innuendo??
Album by Queen. Featuring Steve Howe. Wow I've managed to get back ontrack

[illusion]

Originally posted by Martin Riley
Now we're delving too far into the realm of innuendo.Innuendo??
Album by Queen. Featuring Steve Howe. Wow I've managed to get back ontrack

And thats how I got into Yes. True story!

Earl's ancestor was hanged?

Lengths of songs matters. Longer songs are better. Except if they just drag on. 25 minute Eminem? Nah.

[yesboy81]

Trevor Horn had signed Seal to his ZTT label in the early 90s. Trevor produced his first U. K. single, "Killer". This was followed by the 1991 release of Seal's self titled album which included the U.S. hit , "Crazy". 3 years later Trevor produced the follow up, another self titled. This album produced the summer hit from the Batman Forever movie titled "Kiss From a Rose". Also this song produced Trevor's Grammy for I believe it was record of the year ( or producer of the year, don't remember which one). Afterwards Seal and Trevor had a falling out. Trevor went on to bigger and better production, while Seal's next album 'Human Being' failed to spawn any sort of hit album and single.

[illusion]

I suppose Trevor must have been important to Seal. Maybe he should produce the next Yes album?

Did he produce Drama himself?

[Nautilus]

No, I think that was Offord.

[Koko]

Originally posted by Gustavo

I wished they would revisit these songs with Jon singing. It’s the only piece missing, since the music is great! I know people hate the “I am a camera” line, but I bet everyone would feel very different if it came from Jon. Being a photographer I kinda like the line.

I've thought the same for quite some years now..
I would love Yes to re - do the tracks Machine Messiah, Tempus Fugit, I am a Camera with Jon on vocals..I can't see it happenong for ALL the reasons we can all imagine...
Still you never know if Jon ever has a spare few days with the master tapes and Mr Horn around......

I Love the sound of Steve's Wah Wahed guitar that comes just after the line/s

There by the waters side...

The first time I heard it I saw 'water moving' in my minds eye...

ah ha...Maybe I am a Camera!?


Toodle Pip!

[yesboy81]

Drama wasn't produced by Horn nor was it just produced by Eddie Offord. Eddie Offord only produced the backing tracks. Yes self produced this effort, carrying the banner "All Tracks Arranged and Produced by Yes". But Offord's contribution was an important one in the production of Drama. Another note: Yes also used Trevor Horn's studio in L. A. for mixing of Magnification with Tim Weidner, the assisting producer/engineer on Mag. Weidner worked with Trevor Horn for many years at the Sarms Studios in London.

[gt76yesman]

My disappointment came on the tour.

[YYY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PaulH
[B]I have never been able to warm up to this album.
If it came from a place that was perhaps more inspired, rather than...oh we just sold out a tour in the U.S. we better get a band together.

Does any 80's YES or sudo-Yes hold up to CTTE, Fragile,Yes Album, Tales or Relayer. I've never been able to transcend into their music during that period. Needing and wanting more YES to listen to beyond Tormato, I tried and tried, but it never worked for me. There is something very magical, fluid and natural about their early music. The later stuff just seems so forced. As if they are trying to be YES. I always thought that 70's YES music was so amazing because it rode such a fine line between corning, pretentious, over indulgence and bold unique perfection. If they didn't get it right or their hearts weren't into it or if there wasn't harmonic conversion between the musicians, then YES music crosses that line and falls flat. To me, their music has always been a delicate balance on a tightrope of perfection and complete disaster. Fortunately their daringness worked for quite a while, unfortunately they loss their footing for many years

[BlueEagle]

If you judge Drama by itself, outside of the band's discography, it's not a bad album. Certainly not their best but much better than Tormato or the 80s products.
It's sad that they can't embrace their past. Most of the songs on Drama would be great live especially with Rick. I would much rather hear Jon sing Into the Lens than On the Silent Wings or Rythm of Love.:yesbird:

[PO]

I just listened to Does It Really Happen? Great tune. Very crunchy, which Yes does little of. Squire sure seems to like this material since he solos with it for two decades. White Car is beautifly orchestrated. Very tasty with the 4-stroke field drum roll.

[Ron Drummond]

I really like Drama and I absolutely love "Machine Messiah" and "White Car". MM is a masterpiece, and one of my all-time favorite Yes songs. I love Trevor Horn's singing on that song, and indeed I think he sounds good on most of the album. It was mainly his honest and courageous attempt to sing Jon's lines on older Yes songs on the tour that really got him into trouble with fans. And though he failed to pull it off, he gave it his best shot, knowing full well the fans would hate it -- and indeed he got booed at every show. Imagine how that would make you feel, suddenly put in the position of fronting your all-time favorite band, and having the fans hate your guts for your honest but inadequate efforts. Trevor has said it was the most painful experience of his life.

But on Drama, Horn sounds good. Because MM has a palindromic structure, I like to compound that by having "White Car" come both before and after "Machine Messiah". Try it -- program tracks 2, 1, and 2 again, in that order. Crank it up, lower the lights, get into a trance. It sounds great!

As for the rest of the album, I think all of the songs are flawed, but they all have good things at the core, and overall the album is excellent. A wonderfully quirky moment in Yes history that far from regretting I am grateful for.

It's also important to remember that Trevor Horn produced 90125 and made a major contribution to the sound of that album, including songwriting credits on several of the tunes.

Yes started out as the ultimate cover band. That's how Jon should approach doing "Machine Messiah" -- like he's doing a cover. It would sound great.

[BrianD]

I avoided this album for over a decade because Jon and to a lesser extent Rick weren't on it. Then I found that I enjoyed the tracks on Yesyears and was pleasantly surprised. But it was only when I acquired the whole album about a year ago that I really realised that it is actually the gem in the archive. Different to Tormato amnd other 70s Yes (except that I think there are hints of it in the bass/guitar/drum line on Release Release and On the Silent wings of Freedom) but no more so than Rabin Yes.

A pity that Jon apparently won't sing anything from it (as recently stated by Chris after a concert on the current tour).

[Gato]

As I posted before somewhere around here a couple of times or so (none of them on this particular thread), I bought Drama when it was released just thinking it could only be real crap.
I mean, my line of thought was: "The Bugles in Yes, and Yes without Jon?"
As soon as I started playing it back, it really got me. This love affair goes on.

[Ron Drummond]

Originally posted by BrianD
A pity that Jon apparently won't sing anything from it (as recently stated by Chris after a concert on the current tour). Brian, did you read about this somewhere, or did you talk to Chris yourself? If the latter, I would love to read your anecdote about the entire encounter, I bet it was a wonderful moment.

Frankly, Jon's attitude towards Drama does not bode well for the possibility of the band's continuance. Again, Yes started as a cover band. Jon has sung songs by many other songwriters. For him to wholly exclude the Drama songs from his repertoire might be understandable, but it's also narrow-sighted of him, in that one area. Sure he's got the right, but look how he could show by example how future singers in the on-going entity called Yes might approach the Yessong heritage they inherit, by taking one or two of the best songs from Drama and creating new arrangements of them in the same spirit that Yes once adopted in so brilliantly arranging other songwriters' works. Imagine "Machine Messiah" recast, with some old lyrics but some new lyrics too, with Jon adapting Trevor's vocal meliodies but adding new ones of his own, it could become a new and wonderful creation. Approached in the right spirit, Jon could have a blast with it, and in doing so exorcise any lingering pain he might feel from the one time he was excluded from the band he co-founded.

[Earl Grey]

DRAMA is a bit of magic.

It ISN'T Close To The Edge...

But Close To The Edge isn't 'Drama' either!

I love it.

DRAMA is YES.

And there is no light brighter.

Ever the Endless Dream, YES.

And surprise will abound.

Machine Messiah... amazing! And I can understand why Jon doesn't want to sing it... A little darkness in there.

Still, it would be fun to hear how Jon would interpret it. No darker than Gates Of Delirium, not really.

I noticed there was a strange new video camera bolted to a lightpost, on the corner of my street.
Who exactly is watching us!

The Machine Messiah... it must be!
I'm hoping that this is a good thing...
"I Am A Camera..."

A chimera?

:ele:

[BrianD]

Originally posted by Ron Drummond
Brian, did you read about this somewhere, or did you talk to Chris yourself? If the latter, I would love to read your anecdote about the entire encounter, I bet it was a wonderful moment.



I read this on the current tour reviews by a Swedish fan. I dream to meet Jon, Chris and the rest of the band and am hoping to meet them in Australia this year.

[Earl Grey]

You deserve all good things.

And this will happen for you.

All the best, from your friend,

:yesbird:

[bender]

Drama might be missing Jon but it's still sounds better than 90125, Big Generator, Union, Talk or Open Your Eyes in my opinion.

Machine Messiah and Tempus Fugit live.....what a dream!

[Bluebird71]

I only got Drama two days ago but already love it intensely! From start to finish this is one fabulous record and I'm so glad I decided to take the plunge with it... The music on Drama does what great music always does; lifts my spirit on to a higher level.

I'm in awe.

[slazman]

I only got Drama about 3 weeks ago - since then, it's hardly been out of my car CD player. It's a different sort of Yes ... but strangely still the same ... but hey it's great music and I love it.

It would have been great to see a live performance.

[rickweber]

Drama demonstrated to me that Yes were not afraid to be a bit daring. Like the lyric says: To finally unlearn our lessons and alter our stance. It was a good intro to what was to come in the years ahead. Everyone has different tastes, but to me 90125 was superior to Drama in many ways: Production, Air play, etc. Drama told us stay tuned, pay attention, we're not going anywhere. The best was yet to come. Drama brought a lot of people back to Yes who had left in favor of bands like Blondie and The Cars. A new decade meant new ideas, new music. And though they did take a break they came back with a vengence. Yes was never a band to fear critics. It's us fans who have the final say. And God bless them for it!!

[sparky]

Good point, Ron! Agree with you totally..

[Paul D]

Drama was the very first Yes album I ever bought, back in 1980. It's not my favorite Yes album, but it is a great one. Of course, the lineup of Drama was a factor in the formation of Asia, but that's another topic...

[leodragonfire]

Drama has some interesting songs but is FAR better than the previous record, 'Tormato'.

[Timmo]

But the songs on "Tormato" work better live than the "Drama" songs.