General feelings towards Tormato [Archive]

Hed G.

01-17-2006, 06:19 AM

I've just pulled this one out again for a listen (original vinyl
- no digital tweaking in THIS household!) and a reappraisal,
taking in account numerous threads about it.

This album is definitely the "big miss" in Yes' career!
The songs are basically good tunes, but the band seem tired
of each other's presence, and the crucial interraction of
contributing ideas to each other's compositions seems sorely
lacking. They all seem to be off on their own tangents, not
really leaving a lot of space for each other, and the sound
production is muddy and outdated for what the band were
attempting to create (in comparison - Drama works 10 times
better in this sense).
Sad but true - the band were too complacent with their own
production skills which only resulted in a disjointed album,
instead of entrusting their music to a good producer
(the failure if the Paris sessions with Roy Baker was a prime
example of management trying to milk this goose for another
golden egg, bringing in a "big name" producer who had no
bearing on the band's style or working habits).

Still - there are great moments of music here:
Future Times/Rejoice just needs better sound.
Don't Kill The Whale screams out for a better arrangement.
Madrigal is perfect.
Release, Release needs re-arranging and a completely different
sound mix. The drum solo section is unnecessary and drags it down.
Arriving UFO is a good tune killed by overplaying from the whole band.
Circus of Heaven is wonderful - again, a better mix would help it
achieve that "cosmic" feel much better.
Onward is a prime example of Squire's musicianship, and one of my
all-time favourite romancers. My wife and I walked down the aisle
with this playing in the background!
On The Silent Wings Of Freedom has an awesome intro, but the actual
song section is a disappointment, especially the La la la la bits. Yet again,
the sound production spoils this track, moreso than anywhere else on the
album.

Shame.

Earl Grey

01-17-2006, 06:30 AM

Those who loved intricacy hated Tormato when it first appeared, as we were hoping YES would give the finger and a big 'F%$# YOU!' to punk, by being even more pompous and complicated.

...and Tormato wasn't that.

Years later, when neo-punk began to raise it's silly head, I listened to Tormato anew, and I actually liked it.

Now you couldn't pry it from my dead turntable...

A wonderfully flawed album. 'On The Silent Wings Of Freedom'. Oh yeah.

Tormato. So what's perfect?

CTTE.

Almost forgot for a second there!

:ele:

Hed G.

01-17-2006, 06:39 AM

Don't get me wrong - I'd take it over "Never mind the Bollocks"
or "London Calling" anyday, but for a Yes album, I feel the band
were just going thru the motions!

Earl Grey

01-17-2006, 06:45 AM

Don't get me wrong...

I have the Rhino 'remaster', and I listen to it often.

It's just that when it appeared, it wasn't what I was hoping for.

It's funny. Tormato is the puppy with the bitten ear.

I love it more han the others now, I'm even protective of it.

I love Tormato.

When it came out, I wanted to toss a few red ones meself...

How funny it is, when things go into a historical context.

EG

Hed G.

01-17-2006, 06:59 AM

It's funny. Tormato is the puppy with the bitten ear.

I love it more han the others now, I'm even protective of it.

I love Tormato.

Me too, which is why I'd rather do reconstructive surgery on the bitten
ear than suffer the band's lack of judgement from 28 years ago!

Earl Grey

01-17-2006, 07:10 AM

Wouldn't you LOVE to get your hands on the master tapes?

No rules.

"Hey Kids! Grow the Perfect Tormato in your OWN Hydroponic Garden! See inside for details!"

:ele: Fun stuff.

gitsy

01-17-2006, 07:21 AM

It rarely gets a play in my house and when it does I find myself thinking oh it’s not so bad. I have said else ware the saving grace for me is Onward a fabulous track and worth the cost of the CD alone.

yesyadda

01-17-2006, 07:38 AM

A bit pretentious, yet precocious. Not perfect but plenty pleasing to this polyphonic pallet!

Like Earl, I wanted to give it the heave-ho but it's become one of my favorites. The songs are unique and individual and allow the band members' talents to really shine. A little wacky at times but cutting edge stuff.

You were married to Onward? That's class!

OTSWOF... La la la la lalala la. Ya- kinda trite. That's just Jon I guess.

allpurechance

01-17-2006, 07:39 AM

I think two albums really benefited the most from the Rhino remastering process.

One is Tales.

The other is Tormato!

Now indispensable, a member of the so-called Yes Classic sequence.

And each of these works has also benefited from the band's longevity.Any tune selected to be played on a recent or future setlist from either Tormato or Tales is pretty much guaranteed to be a serious treat!

Love what you said about the "historical context", Earl!

inside_out

01-18-2006, 08:31 PM

Set time in accord
Ever turning round and round
Set points Universe
Pulsating round and round
Highest dancing
Drifting drifting

Jackaranda

01-18-2006, 08:35 PM

WAY better live.

01-18-2006, 08:36 PM

I've always loved Tormato. Future Times/Rejoice is in my Yes top ten. Tormato was the new album when I first got into Yes, so I've loved it for 3/4 of my life.

Tormato would have been the career highlight for any other band.

inside_out

01-18-2006, 09:24 PM

KPatrick

01-18-2006, 09:59 PM

A missed opportunity. In the wake of GFTO -- which is their most complete and completely sucessful album, to my ears -- it's especially disappointing. The keys and the guitars have this ugly, brittle sound. It sounds shallow, where GFTO was deep. It is brittle and chilly where TALES, for all its other flaws, is lush and warm.

Also, the songs just aren't there. "Future Times" starts off well but goes nowhere. "Release Release" goes about 7 different places (great vocals though). "Arriving UFO" has more gimmicky daftness than Barenaked Ladies at their worst. "Circus of Heaven," bleech.

"...Silent Wings" is awesome, though. For some reason the tinny keyboard sounds work here, and Steve's guitar keeps a spectral distance. Great atmosphere on this song, and all 5 guys are at their best. "don't Kill the Whale" is pretty good. "Onward" is nice, not a lot more consequential than "Madrigal."

That's not very general is it? I go back where I started. A missed opportunity. That the same group of guys made both GFTO and TORMATO in the span of two years is amazing and frustrating. Mediocre songs poorly executed, for the most part.

gathernear

01-18-2006, 10:17 PM

In this case, I would definitely suggest the Rhino remaster CD. The bonus tracks are really great. Better than the album. It helps.

But, over London Calling?? I don't know...

Larry

jcbart

01-18-2006, 10:30 PM

This was my third Yes album if remember correctly. I had it on tape at the time and it sounded thin but I just thought it was my cheap system. I played around with the settings to give it more bass and it sounded fine to me. Years later I got the japanese import and I still liked it. Now, with the Rhino remaster and all the wonderful bonus tracks it's one of my favorites.

It's funny but when ABWH came out, I thought it sounded like Tormato II. In a way, it picks up where Tormato left off and I am a fan of both albums.

Simon Woodhouse

01-18-2006, 10:41 PM

I've realised recently that I'm a late 70's man when it comes to Yes.

GFTO and Tormato are joint first prize winners with me.

I especially love the lyrics on Tormato. They're vague (as normal), but not as 'out there' as on the early 70's stuff. The songs are really solid as well. There are two exceptions though – UFO and Circus. A great album would have been made even better if these two had been used as B-sides, and a couple of the other tracks made longer.

Imagine fifteen minutes worth of On The Silent Wings Of Freedom. Madrigal always sounds like it's part of something longer too.

After this album, I don't think Yes got it right again until the ABWH stuff.

Deliriumyes

01-19-2006, 10:11 AM

I just listened to this yesterday! I love this album...I mean it's no CTTE, but hey, what is? 20 years ago, when I couldn't find this on CD, I had it imported from Japan. I have the original recording, on CD, with Japanese lyrics! Crazy! I'll get around to the Rhino Remaster one of these days.

Silent_wings

01-19-2006, 10:18 AM

Hi Simon Welcome to Yesfans
Tormato is a wonderful album on the strengh od OTSWOF alone
Karen the remaster is well worth the money.

RABARKS

01-19-2006, 11:08 AM

On The Silent Wings Of Freedom has an awesome intro, but the actual
song section is a disappointment, especially the La la la la bits.

I think Tormato is placed under a microscope here. What about the la la la bits in the mid section of South Side Of The Sky? Are they really that great? And they do go on and on and on....
And what about the ending of Going For The One? That could have been trimmed down a bit, couldn't it? Don't get me wrong, I love those songs, but it seems unfair to scrutinize (is that the right spelling?) this album and not do the same with all the other ones...

:headset:

MrZuLu

01-19-2006, 11:24 AM

Bo Locks

01-19-2006, 11:33 AM

About 12 years ago, I got a stupidly expensive CD replay only hi-fi. The Tormato remaster was one of my test discs. I figured, "If this can sound good then just about anything can sound good!" It sounded amazing: the drums slammed you into your seat, the funny stereo chorus bass processing was almost 3D, Future Times rocked, Silent Wings soared. I thought the album was cool originally but had this odd sound. Well it still sounded odd but my system sucked up what there was and threw it at me.

Moral:throw away your Fartatron convenience replay system and replace, buy the Rhino remaster and TURN IT UP!!!

MrZuLu

01-19-2006, 11:45 AM

RickyG

01-19-2006, 12:25 PM

I was sooooo taken by Tormato it is the only tour I attended twice.
I seem to be the only person around here that unequivocally loves all their stupid albums... For some reason I seem to find GREAT musical worth in all Yes music...

honestly I really must be sick in the head!
Guess I am just fanatical

I agree, there's a vast amount of great musical worth to be found on Tormato!!

(Though you probably are the only person around here that unequivocally loves all their stupid albums!! I mean 'Open your Eyes"?? Yes, you may well be a bit sick in the head!! ...though I will agree there is some musical worth to be found on that album.... somewhere, I think, if I remember correctly..... "From The Balcony" is a nice little gem....)

Hed G.

01-19-2006, 12:26 PM

I think Tormato is placed under a microscope here. What about the la la la bits in the mid section of South Side Of The Sky? Are they really that great? And they do go on and on and on....
And what about the ending of Going For The One? That could have been trimmed down a bit, couldn't it? Don't get me wrong, I love those songs, but it seems unfair to scrutinize (is that the right spelling?) this album and not do the same with all the other ones...

:headset:

There are other threads dissecting the other albums. I haven't got round to
posting on them as yet, but they'll get their's soon!
The mid-section of South Side works better as it is structured upon
polyrhythms, accents and spacing within the music, and develops gradually.
The la la la la in Silent Wings sounds more like an alternative chorus with no
lyrics, juxtaposed (wrongly) in between much more convincing sections of the
same song.
The ending of GFTO is a repeated chorus serving as a background for the
slide guitar solo. Take away the solo and you have an endlessly repeating
cycle of choruses. Take away the vocals and you have a solo over a plodding,
rather repetitive backtrack. Slamming them on top of each other was brilliant
and imaginitive, and helps sustain the tension towards the coda.

Scrutinizing this music is why we are here, as opposed to posting absolute
drivel on the non-topic threads.

RickyG

01-19-2006, 12:31 PM

Absolute agreement with you on this Hed G., perfect post, I could not have said it better!

(PS - if you are into detailed microscopic dissection, check out my reply to Neillius' question about part of The Ancient..... I think it's over in the forum about opinions and polls or something.... under a Tales thread of course...)

I love this sort of discussion!

RickyG

01-19-2006, 12:38 PM

Likn to the Ancient post I mentioned:

http://www.yesfans.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22144&page=3

Timmo

01-19-2006, 02:02 PM

Sub-par production.

Uneven songs.

"Circus of Heaven," the most twee song Yes ever recorded.

BUT:

THE SONGS WORKED GREAT LIVE. That was an amazing tour.

and

"On the Silent Wings of Freedom" is one of the greatest Yessongs ever. It's probably my most-wanted song for them to play live.

pedro skychaser

01-19-2006, 02:47 PM

tormato is YES' white album-diverse+quirky----dktw is better arranged+performed on "tales from yesterday" by stanley snail(i think),ufo should be on next tour(wakeman wants it)ditto release(armet ertegen's fave)rejoice has some great lyrics(jon is a farmboy don't forget-"harvest breeze")some cheesy,thin sounds for sure-circus is twee-but a sustained narrative---otswof has the greatest use of churchbells outside acdc's "hells bells"...one of my faves i guess.

shortexchanges

01-19-2006, 02:59 PM

The tour was amazing, I saw them at the garden in the round in sept 78 and june 79. Steve played like a man possesed.

The album is unusual whare the parts add up to less than the whole feeling of a group past the prime just recaptured on going for the one. I think folks judge this harshly as going was such a perfect complete album, every track a winner. This feels disjointed and the cover looks like someone threw a rotten tomato at chris squire in a proper fancy british suit.

there is alot to like on the album having said that though. silent wings has a favorie lyric in "anarchy's calling ways" and rocks. Dont kill the whale has a wonderful howe solo before it ends. Future times reminds me of a tolkien like world that yes crafted.

Circus of heaven was the worst song until man on the moon was actually produced and placed on open your eyes. The slower songs actually stand out with madrigal the better.

I think every one beats this album up as it is not the best they could have done, not as good as the one before or after.

RickyG

01-19-2006, 03:06 PM

I've always loved "Circus OF Heaven" in the studio and live! (I saw that tour three times.) Sure it's "twee", whatever that is, but what's wrong with twee??

MAn on the Moon is far, far worse than Circus IMO.

I also much prefer Tormato over Drama.

BrianD

01-19-2006, 03:07 PM

I have posted this elsewhere but it was only in the 'Internet' Yes era did I become aware that there was widespread dissatisfaction about this album with Yes fans. While I recall being disappointed that there was no epic on the album, I thought (and still do) that the album had some great music. i played the old LP into the ground - and I love the bonus tracks rhino remaster.

RickyG

01-19-2006, 03:14 PM

Same here, I clearly remember myself and and all of my YES fan friends really digging Tormato!! Nobody thought it was as good as CTTE or TAles, but we all still dug it, and we all had things we didn't quite like on it.

I remember getting into discussions about the phrasing of the lyrics and vocals on Circus of Heaven with two of my musician friends.... and another non-musician friend actually being brought to tears of joy when they played it live!!

I too am surprised by the amount of dissent over this album - and particularly Circus Of Heaven.

For me Release,Release was the weak track, though I like it better now. And now I like UFO less, mostly becuase of the messy production, and it's about the one place in all of Howe/YES music where his guitar annoys me! Those quacky duck lines where they pick up the energy....

KPatrick

01-19-2006, 03:54 PM

Circus of heaven was the worst song until man on the moon was actually produced and placed on open your eyes. .

Amen

BrianD

01-19-2006, 03:57 PM

Hed G.

01-19-2006, 04:09 PM

Roan's Lady

01-19-2006, 05:09 PM

I got into Yes right before Tormato was released, and when it came out, I ran to the record store with mighty high expectations for my first purchase of a "new" Yes album. I wasn't too terribly disappointed in it, although I felt it to be quite a bit short of the grandeur of the albums I had purchased previously, namely, Fragile GFTO, and CTTE. Nonetheless, I was satisfied with most of Tormato (even the dippy "Circus of Heaven" appealed to another side of my eighth-grade persona) - simpler music notwithstanding, it still is lightyears better than several that followed it, excluding the most excellent Drama. My first Yes concert was June 13, 1979 at the Garden - wonder if you were at that show, short? and it was phenomenal, as Timmo said, the songs translated much better in their live show. Tormato has a lot of merit- I wish they played more material from it at subsequent shows.

Sheerah

01-19-2006, 05:35 PM

Generally speaking, I think it's a good album.
I really like it.

Pretty general, huh?

RickyG

01-19-2006, 05:41 PM

Generally speaking, I think it's a good album.
I really like it.

Pretty general, huh?

Well specifically Sheila, could you be more general? Or then again maybe not as I think you really said it all encompassingly, and I agree with every word!

inside_out

01-19-2006, 06:19 PM

I was sooooo taken by Tormato it is the only tour I attended twice.
I seem to be the only person around here that unequivocally loves all their stupid albums... For some reason I seem to find GREAT musical worth in all Yes music...

honestly I really must be sick in the head!
Guess I am just fanatical

oh well...
Silent wings...

sorry... I just LOVE the silly, nasty, terribly produced, poorly written, sloppy, unbalanced, nonmuscial, unengineered, basic track POS!

It was an amazing tour. One of the great things about that time was if you lived in certain parts of the country (or world) you could see them 2 times in the same town (if you could come up with the cash and a means to get there).

By the way Circus of Heaven was a highlight of that show. It just was. Jon made it that way. If you went you know what I mean.

KPatrick

01-19-2006, 06:25 PM

I've been thinking about this 1978-1980 era of Yes - in a weird way it was a very productive time for them. Jon, Steve and Rick did a lot of solo work. Then - in contrast to the early 70s - they had heaps of material they worked on but didn't release until the Rhino remasters. It seems to me that apart from any personality clashes and the lack of a producer, one of the main problems during this period is that they had too much material to choose from. Not all of it good, but much of it potentially outstanding. Little of it developed fully.

very productive time for the guys themselves, as you well note -- not so much for the band. Loads of solo albums, a tour with no album to support, one album with the "Classic Lineup."

Subtract that album from the equation, and 1978-1980 starts to look a lot like 2002-2005...

RickyG

01-19-2006, 07:11 PM

It was an amazing tour. One of the great things about that time was if you lived in certain parts of the country (or world) you could see them 2 times in the same town (if you could come up with the cash and a means to get there).

By the way Circus of Heaven was a highlight of that show. It just was. Jon made it that way. If you went you know what I mean.

This is starting to sound like the Tormato Support Foundation, which is a good thing, giving it the due it deserves. Actually I saw that tour 3 times, once in 78, twice in 79.... getting to the shows was the hardest part, coming up with the cash meant coming up with $8.50!! $8 for the ticket and 50 cents for the Ticketron service charge. No, coming up with the cash was alot easier back then, even being only a teenager....

Agreed, Circus Of Heaven was a highlight of those shows. On one of those 79 shows it was Alan White's birthday and at his request they replaced "UFO" in the set list with "And You & I" (or vice versa). Just getting a different song like that was a highlight!! The shows were New Haven, CT and Springfield, MA in case any of you were there.

Sheerah

01-19-2006, 07:14 PM

Well specifically Sheila, could you be more general? Or then again maybe not as I think you really said it all encompassingly, and I agree with every word!

Ya know, Rich, sometimes you just can't improve upon perfection. Know what I mean?

Stinger

01-19-2006, 07:41 PM

Circus of Heaven was an absolutely wonderful song.

Sheerah

01-19-2006, 07:46 PM

Circus of Heaven was an absolutely wonderful song.

Okay, in all honesty, I find that song as annoying as Into The Lens.

RickyG

01-19-2006, 07:51 PM

Okay, in all honesty, I find that song as annoying as Into The Lens.

I much prefered your previous perfected comments!! (Though I agree that Into the Lens is annoying.)

Orbert

01-19-2006, 11:47 PM

:headset:

I think the most amazing thing of all about Tormato is how everyone disagrees about which songs are the good ones and which are the not so good ones. I love On The Silent Wings of Freedom from the first note to the last. It's one of very, very few tunes I will occassionally play twice in a row, just because. But others don't like it at all. Some love Circus of Heaven, others actually get physically ill upon hearing it. Same with Arriving UFO. Weird.

Most people love Onward, though. I do too. :harp:

RABARKS

01-20-2006, 11:42 AM

Scrutinizing this music is why we are here, as opposed to posting absolute
drivel on the non-topic threads.

Okay, you have a point there. I can't argue with that!
:headset:

Joe

01-20-2006, 11:48 AM

:clap: :thewave: :wavetowel

Orbert

01-20-2006, 12:56 PM

The mid-section of South Side works better as it is structured upon polyrhythms, accents and spacing within the music, and develops gradually. The la la la la in Silent Wings sounds more like an alternative chorus with no lyrics, juxtaposed (wrongly) in between much more convincing sections of the same song.
I think they both work. The la la la in South Side is during a quiet, introspective part, and adds atmosphere. In Silent Wings, it's much faster, and we've already gone through that section before, with lyrics. Rather than hear those same lyrics again, or new lyrics to the same section, either of which I think would be a bit much, we just go "la la la". I've never minded it at all.

The ending of GFTO is a repeated chorus serving as a background for the slide guitar solo. Take away the solo and you have an endlessly repeating cycle of choruses. Take away the vocals and you have a solo over a plodding, rather repetitive backtrack. Slamming them on top of each other was brilliant and imaginitive, and helps sustain the tension towards the coda.
I've always loved that buildup to the end there, and your description is great (though I've never really thought of it as "slammed" together, just combined). Chicago used to do something similar quite often; the horns would play something for 16 or 32 bars, itself a non-trivial part, while the guitar solos over the whole thing. An example would be the guitar solo during "Make Me Smile". The horns are definitely busy as well, and you get a great layering effect without it feeling like there's "too much" going on.

RABARKS

01-22-2006, 03:56 AM

Chicago used to do something similar quite often; the horns would play something for 16 or 32 bars, itself a non-trivial part, while the guitar solos over the whole thing. An example would be the guitar solo during "Make Me Smile". The horns are definitely busy as well, and you get a great layering effect without it feeling like there's "too much" going on.

Speaking of good Chicago solos: The one on 25 or 6 to 4 still ranks in my top ten of all time greatest guitar solos! But I'm drifting away from our thread theme here....
:headset:

Hed G.

01-22-2006, 06:57 AM

I've always loved that buildup to the end there, and your description is great (though I've never really thought of it as "slammed" together, just combined). Chicago used to do something similar quite often; the horns would play something for 16 or 32 bars, itself a non-trivial part, while the guitar solos over the whole thing. An example would be the guitar solo during "Make Me Smile". The horns are definitely busy as well, and you get a great layering effect without it feeling like there's "too much" going on.

I described it as "slammed together" because, IMHO, it was
a production-oriented idea, probably the result of both Jon and
Steve vying for center-stage at this point in the song (reason
would dictate the vocals to be lower in the mix somewhere during
the solo). This does create a slightly "messy" feeling, which
eventually resolves on the last set of lyrics. Sadly, this is not
the case on some of the Tormato tracks, where the "messy"
feeling leads nowhere.

Hugh Shiebler

09-25-2006, 09:53 PM

There is an interesting Tormato thread going on over at the Progressive Ears site - a site that actually has quite a lot of Yes-related discussion going on at any given time.

http://www.progressiveears.com/default.asp?bhcp=1

Here's a post that I left, after somebody called the tomato-splashed cover "disturbing":

" I was going to say that, for me as an 18 year old, the splashed tomato wasn't exactly "disturbing", but I guess it was oddly disquieting. In my little corner of High School on Long Island, we were still so caught up in the Yes juggernaut that I can actually remember, under the influence of god knows what, passing the album cover around & trying to discern whether the patterns of the splattered tomato seeds somehow echoed the spoke-like topographical lines that emanated from Yes-Tor on the inside jacket. I ---- you not.

If you have or have access to last year's live 3 CD "The Word is Live" set, read the essay by the Gottlieb brothers about the Yes subculture of late '70's Long Island, in particular the dead-on exact rendering of the 1978 Madison Square Garden Tormato shows - complete with travelling pharmacopia, button vendors, vans and denim jackets emblazoned with air-brushed Roger Dean-scapes.

Whether the intent behind the Tormato album was "high" serious or a (pre-emptively?) self-deprecating stab at jokiness, it seems safe to say that whatever mark the group had set for the album - they missed it, and by a healthy margin.

Virtually from the moment I opened that shrink wrap - probably within a few weeks of its release - there was that unmistakeable sense that somehow the album wasn't all it was supposed to be, or just did not come off as it had been intended to. Even then it made the band seem kind of desperate - grasping at straws.

My recollections of the time, to the extent that I still have any recollections of that time, are that this opinion was generally held among Yes heads at the time. There were great moments, weird moments, lame moments - - it was great but for whatever reasons flawed.

(Of course this was nothing compared to the shock that accompanied the opening up of Drama, the lead-up to and release of which resulted in the loss of a generation of fans.)

But the other thing that was undeniably true about the whole "Tormato" era is just how on top of their live game they were as a group in '78 & '79. Not only were the live versions of the Tormato songs - Don't Kill The Whale, in particular - - 1000% more powerful live, but the versions of "Siberian Khatru", "Awaken" and "Starship Trooper" - just as examples - - absolutely smoked, arguably their strongest ever.

So in my mind at least, the overwhelming strength of the live shows probably compensated for the patchiness, confusion and dry rot that afflicted the album.

Even so, "Tormato" the album wasn't nearly as bad as its detractors over the years have made it out to be."

relayer4u

09-25-2006, 10:23 PM

Having lived through Yes in thier prime, Tormato was just the 2nd foot hitting the grave after my initial dissapointmemt with GFTO.

Nothing could ever match the bands output between The Yes Album and Relayer.

True, GFTO contains the LAST GREAT EPIC, but as a whole, GFTO fails to expand on the promise of Relayer.

Tormato was even worse, no epics in sight, a couple of great songs, but, oh so much carappe!

I was not a happy Yes fan back in the day.

Drama was the godsend that kept me in the Yes camp. 90125 made me smile again, with Yes back in the spotlight.

Then a return to some strange and dark times, imho.

The Ladder was like a preview to me, with Magnification being the payoff.

The Symphonic tour delivered the goods and Don't Go went away thereafter.

Back on topic.

Many may feel that Tormato is underappreciated, and that's OK with me.

From where I started, Tormato has landed in it's rightful place on the worthy scale: Not included in the best Yes albums ever. Not bad but not one of the greats either.

Easily outplayed at my house by 4/5 of GFTO, all of Drama, all of 90125, and a lot of Magnification.

Hugh Shiebler

09-25-2006, 11:22 PM

For Yes fans that I knew at the time, it seemed that after Tormato, Yes ceasd to exist - period. People didn't even buy Drama.

I did buy Drama, and I enjoyed parts of it, but I sure understood that an era had ended. I have come more to terms with Drama recently, especially since the release of the Rhino re-master.

Sharp Distance

10-06-2006, 06:17 PM

Yes2Yes

10-06-2006, 06:54 PM

Most of the album I liked. I know the critics slammed it from the beginning but I still went out and bought it. I had to judge it for myself.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

10-06-2006, 07:05 PM

Basically Tormato and Open Your Eyes fight for the basement in my book. I would rather listen to 'Yes' than either one all the way through.

Seems like Tormato is just some scrap left over after they wrote Awakening. Scraps are never as good as the steak. Then someone came up with Don't Kill the Whale which was good. Just weak all around.

somissound

10-06-2006, 07:11 PM

I love Chris bass tone/fx on the first 2 songs....and Onward is one of the most beautiful songs I have ever heard.

Too bad there was no producer to guide the ship and sound quality.
Drama's production and sound quality sounds like it was recorded 20 years after Tormato..or Tormato was really recorded before The Yes Album....

Earl Grey

10-06-2006, 07:28 PM

I first got into Yes with Drama in 1980. When I went back to the record store, I bought Tormato. Oddly enough, that was my first experience hearing Jon. The album still has a special place in my heart because that was really what got me into the band. All these years later, I still love the album. I know a lot of people think Circus of Heaven is a little lame, but I still love it. It's kind of like when you hear a bad song that reminds you of the first girl you loved. Sure Bryan Adams sucks, but you remember what it felt like when you were with her.

Welcome to Yesfans Sharp Distance! Great post.

Tormato was caught in the chasm between decades.

It was too 'progressive' for the Corporate Rock crowd, it wasn't 'disco' enough for the charts (Though 'Don't Kill The Whale did quite well. I attempted to dance to it a few times. God I hated disco!). The so-called art movement at the time was too obsessed with bands named after bodily fluids and razor blades at the time to notice...

I was young, idealistic, and thought YES was going to save the world with their next album, and they didn't save the world with their next album...

:ele:

In retrospect, I LOVE Tormato. It's alongside Close To The Edge and Relayer in my CD player, always in heavy rotation in my own little world, as it may be.

A flawed album (even YES agrees that Tormato was rushed out of the studio before it was properly finished). Yet full of magic, and I love it now.

Still...

What if YES had been energized at the time, what if management had put the time, the funds, and the effort into Tormato that it deserved.

What if Tormato HAD been the greatest YES album ever?

The late seventies, and the upcoming decade of the eighties could have been much different, better, 'musically'... With YES as the trailblazer.

As it was, the eighties were fun, Tormato is our favorite bent-eared puppy, time is time, and here we are!

Good to meet you Sharp Distance.
Earl Grey:yesbird:

BlueEagle

10-06-2006, 07:30 PM

I love Chris bass tone/fx on the first 2 songs....
Too bad there was no producer to guide the ship and sound quality.
Drama's production and sound quality sounds like it was recorded 20 years after Tormato..or Tormato was really recorded before The Yes Album....

I couldnt disagree more with the first part and agree more with the rest. In fact the sound quality-or lack thereof-is my major complaint. Chris' DORNG DORNG sound like his bass is broken I find annoying and FUTURE TIMES nearly unlistenable. Rick's sound too is characterless- His use of the birotron and polymoog almost exclusively and the crappy keyboard mix make his contribution almost irrelevant. But hey that's just me-maybe I just missed the good ole days of FRAGILE-GFTO

CybrKhatru

10-06-2006, 07:44 PM

To my ears, the overall production of Tormato is very tinny and thin...unfortunately the Rhino remaster makes this issue worse in a way because of its clarity and detail. Considering how busy yet warm GFTO was, and how meaty DRAMA was to be, it is a weird sidestep sonically for Yes.

I still love it all the same...

(wow, and who thought anyone would ever have criticism about too much clarity and detail?!)

Timmo

10-06-2006, 08:24 PM

But the other thing that was undeniably true about the whole "Tormato" era is just how on top of their live game they were as a group in '78 & '79. Not only were the live versions of the Tormato songs - Don't Kill The Whale, in particular - - 1000% more powerful live, but the versions of "Siberian Khatru", "Awaken" and "Starship Trooper" - just as examples - - absolutely smoked, arguably their strongest ever.

So in my mind at least, the overwhelming strength of the live shows probably compensated for the patchiness, confusion and dry rot that afflicted the album.I couldn't agree more. Those '79 shows SMOKED, and the Tormato material was GREAT live!

For Yes fans that I knew at the time, it seemed that after Tormato, Yes ceasd to exist - period. People didn't even buy Drama.That was me. I refused to give Drama a chance until recently. Although not a favorite due to my dislike of lyrics/singing and keys, the rhythm section was on fire, and so was Steve.

I'd love to see them do Tempus Fugit on the next tour.

To my ears, the overall production of Tormato is very tinny and thin...unfortunately the Rhino remaster makes this issue worse in a way because of its clarity and detail. Considering how busy yet warm GFTO was, and how meaty DRAMA was to be, it is a weird sidestep sonically for Yes.

I still love it all the same...

(wow, and who thought anyone would ever have criticism about too much clarity and detail?!)Again, agree 1000%, but as I said above, they sure worked live.

Earl Grey

10-06-2006, 08:59 PM

I couldn't agree more. Those '79 shows SMOKED, and the Tormato material was GREAT live!

'78 and '79 were the years to hear YES at their personal best. Every show a diamond.

If Tormato could have only been recorded live on the road, al la 'Running On Empty'.

That would have been TORMATO. The definitive version. The energy they had 'live' back then. !

Relative youth, the wisdom of the road, a panoply of greatness, 'the end' hanging angelwise, dovetail-jointed to the V of the highway...

There's ya Tomato! :ele:

umgekehrt

10-06-2006, 10:16 PM

Future Times/Rejoice: a very Wakey intro, but overall not one of my favourites

Don't Kill The Whale: a good sing-along song, but not really proggy. This one is very Squire-ish

Madrigal: mostly Wakey and Jon, this song is beautiful but not really Yes

Release, Release: this is where it gets really good. Lots of energy.

Arriving UFO: also a good song, although not top-tier

Circus Of Heaven: an intermezzo from Jon and his kids before we get to the really good stuff

Onward: probably the most beautiful slow song Yes ever wrote

On The Silent Wings Of Freedom: classic Yes to close an album

yes_angel

10-06-2006, 11:13 PM

Toematoe uuuuugggghhhh

BlueEagle

10-06-2006, 11:23 PM

...and a Roger Dean cover couldn't hoit.

jplanet

10-06-2006, 11:25 PM

When I first listened to Tormato, and Arriving UFO was followed by Circus of Heaven, I got that same feeling that I got when my Aunt Faye bought me a popup book for Christmas when I was 10...like they should have known I was more grown-up than that...

Madrigal and Onward struck me as quite beautiful, though...

cinderella

10-06-2006, 11:35 PM

I never listened to this album until about a year ago. When I bought it, I really only liked Future Times and Release Release, but now I find Madrigal and Onward to be quite nice also.

So I guess I like it better than Going For The One (which is my least favorite Yes album.)
Both album covers are tied for most horrible.

fovman

10-07-2006, 12:16 AM

I played Tormato to death when it was released.

Almost blew my stereo cranking "Release, Release"

I can name all the songs on Tormato.
I have trouble with all after Big Generator.

Robert Shupe

10-07-2006, 12:29 AM

My take is a little different.

This was the first record I ever bought of my own accord. Of course, it was also my first Yes record. It made me crave more. I was coming from a top forty mindset and shortly after discovering what FM was all about. I bought because I liked the Yes I had heard on the radio. Man, did this one sound so different and fresh. I can honestly understand why so many were disappionted. But for me it was a gateway into a new stage and thankfully I walked through and never looked back. I can still see myself in my room and playing this on a small two speaker record player. Horrible album cover.

Shupe

yes_angel

10-07-2006, 03:21 AM

cjreyes

10-07-2006, 04:21 AM

I played Tormato to death when it was released.

Almost blew my stereo cranking "Release, Release"

I can name all the songs on Tormato.
I have trouble with all after Big Generator.

This post most closely describes my experience, including the part about remembering names of yessongs on albums. I remember many hours of studying with the headphones on and my Tormato cassette cranked during my first semester of college. I eneded up blowing my buddy's speakers out listening to a recording of a live bootleg of 'On The Silent Wings Of Freedom'. The Rhino remaster is in my top three of those.

10-07-2006, 04:49 AM

Tormato was the new album when I first discovered Yes. I had the cassette, and to say it was in heavy rotation in my house at that point would be an understatement. I walked around my hometown for hours with my cassette player, Tormato, MU Best of Tull, LZ's The Song Remains The Same, and Meet The Beatles.

Future Times/Rejoice is in my Yes top ten.

RABARKS

10-07-2006, 01:48 PM

Tormato was the new album when I first discovered Yes. I had the cassette, and to say it was in heavy rotation in my house at that point would be an understatement.

Me too. Later I got the record, just for the sleeve and the lyrics.
For reasons unknown there was a different running order of tracks that took me a long time to get used to. I still feel sometimes asthough Onward should be the closing song, as it was on the cassette...

somissound

10-07-2006, 05:11 PM

[QUOTE=umgekehrt;979263]
Onward: probably the most beautiful slow song Yes ever wrote

I believe Chris wrote this.:rghtAG:

rememberer

10-07-2006, 06:34 PM

My friend had Tormato and I listened a couple of times and thought, "No thanks. This is worse than GFTO. They've lost it. They've lost Roger Dean. All downhill from here."

That was pretty preposterous in retrospect - I think they were on fire live at this point, too - but there isn't a tougher act to follow than Relayer. Shorter songs was enough to get a guy catastrophizing, and it came on pretty quickly. In less time than the time between Magnification and whatever's next, they'd gone from 4 album sides all the way down to wee short little numbers like Awaken :-) It was a serious shock.

And I was put off my some of the songs. Wasn't real fond of Circus Of Heaven back then. As I like to say lately, if the Beatles had done it (reminds me of Lucy a bit) I'd have thought it was great - but by that point in Yes' career it seemed like shifting into reverse to do something like that when I thought they still had great forward momentum. I should have been hearing Macca do Sound Chaser rather than Yes doing Sgt. Pepper as far as I'm concerned.

I guess what really should have bothered me, and still does a little, is there are a couple of places on Tormato where it sounds a little bit just slapped together. Unfortunately OTSWOF is one of them. You could hardly ask for a more brilliant verse, but it still sounds to me like it's about stumbling into the chorus. I don't know exactly how it should have been different (1 or 2 bars to catch your breath?), but I can hear this or that or this other thing in my head where Chris and Alan truly could have helped the transition more.

Circus Of Heaven is another, I still feel like everyone is back there behind Jon going "oo lah lah lah lah lah" when they should be bringing the hammer down at some point in the song. The more I hear this song live, the more I hear the power and conviction Jon is projecting into the song and the more I like it, but then the more noticable that becomes.

That kind of stuff sort of feels like the band starting to disintegrate in the studio, which Drama would soon prove, and I think that cloud still hangs over that material a little for me. Be okay with me if they'd revisit a couple of those rough edges and then completely blow everybody's minds with those live.

Of course, it's all beside the point because criticism is really beside the point, this adventure is to enjoy, and it's so subjective anyway. If I'd paid closer attention to the later sides of Tales at the time, I could come up with the same junk - "What this? They're singing about shooting lambs and what? Oh my God. They've lost it. It's all downhill from here" - and that would have been particularly preposterous :-)

BlueEagle

10-08-2006, 12:31 AM

The sappy Hypnosis cover was so objectionable, I have been using this picture of YES TOR as the cover of Tormato (TORmato) ;)

emerson_brady

10-16-2006, 10:27 AM

Ach Tormento...

Future Times/Rejoice: An upbeat pop song with marching drums...8/10

Don't Kill The Whale: Faux disco for 1978 - sounds very dated now...6/10

Madrigal: Short (and thus sweet) medival excursion...8/10

Release, Release: The ultimate sleeper track (even the fake audience cheering and the ho-hum keyboard sound can't ruin it)...10/10

Arriving UFO: A bouncy noise-rocker - light-weight but still very entertaining...8/10

Circus Of Heaven: There's nothing to hate here, it's just not very interesting or rewarding...4/10

Onward: I used to find this sappy. Wrong. It's beautiful, spiritual and helpful in times of trouble ...8/10

On The Silent Wings Of Freedom: They are actually improvising during the verse (cool!) but the chorus doesn't quite do it for me. Still, a nice mini-epic...9/10

The production isn't that bad, it's just a very "dry" sound, compared to the lush, reverb-y GFTO. (In that respect, it's almost comparable to Peter Gabriel's second solo album.) All in all, not a bad album...