Steve on Trevor

[1yesfan]

I ran across this on Howes site. Seems that through all the speculation we fans have heard, probably started, that Steve is cool with Trevor...



Having been with the band for over a decade and a part of 3 1/2 Yes albums, do you now feel Trevor deserves a special place in the annals of Yes more than just being another temporary member-(even though he is not part of the classic inner circle?) What is your assessment now that he has moved on and you inherit his body of work for future Yes tours.

"Trevor was in the group for those three albums, 90125, BIG GENERATOR, and TALK, and those three albums say a lot about Trevor. TALK says a lot about Trevor because he virtually made it on his own. 90125 kicks in big, and 'Owner of a Lonely Heart' brought Yes a partly new audience. BIG GENERATOR I suppose was Yes getting on with the job of coming out with records but the only trouble was, and it wasn't really Trevor's fault, that there so few records released, I know now that it's a very slow process getting thing organized with the group Yes, so Trevor's opportunities were few and far between, really, compared to the rush of the 70s and the multi-faceted music that we made then. I did feel that the 80s were rather bland and rather straight ahead but I noticed that on the late Yes albums I use quite a lot of heavy sounds, DRAMA is quite heavy-metalish, I don't really think fundamentally it's that Trevor's style was overly influenced in heavy metal but he's actually a brilliant player and a very capable musician on the guitar and also on the keyboards. I do find that the combination that they created was a Yes that was going around the corner from, if you like, the intensities of anything from RELAYER to TORMATO, the complexity of like just the introduction to 'Future Times', you know it's got a real Yes thing, the musical work there is a kind of craft that's all over the 70s. I don't know, there was something that wasn't happening to the music that was being altered in its structure so if anything it's too hard to summarize. It's kind of hard for me to comment on Trevor, I've got no problem with him, it's just that I don't really understand that period that well and I was doing other things."

[neilius]

Its good that there is no animosoty between the two.

[Steve St Thomas]

Bit patronising. But diplomatically spoken.

[luckeydoug1]

This is a very interesting interview. Thanks for posting it!

[smatt]

Bit patronising. But diplomatically spoken.

:lmao: Well anything Steve said that wasn''t "Trevor's the greatest, far better guitarist than me, and he was Yes' savior" would be patronizing to you Steve.... ;)


I do know that Steve and Trevor got on very well at the Trevor Horn tribute.... I really think that this perceived animosity is just plain crap to be honest. Of course there's going to be some competition, but I think most of this fantasy came about from little off-hand comments, which we all know can be taken far too seriously..... :smurf:

[ronsalehnasir]

What does Howe mean by saying that Trevor made Talk on this own. Clearly, Anderson had a lot to do with the lyrics and melodies.

[nitrus]

What does Howe mean by saying that Trevor made Talk on this own. Clearly, Anderson had a lot to do with the lyrics and melodies.
I'd say Jon wrote most of the lyrics. But Trevor composed all the songs, he mixed and engineered it, he played the guitars, he played (most of) the keys. As for drums and bass, even here I doubt about the size of Alan's and Chris' contribution. Trevor clearly made them himself (just like on Can't Look Away), IMHO.

[PrimeMover]

Cool, he's matured since 1983 when he said "It's all a bick yuck".

I forgive him for that.

[ronsalehnasir]

I don't know if maturity is the correct concept here. I would say that Howe came around to see the relative merits of YesWest under Trevor's influence. But he continues to recognize that the music isn't as complex or interesting as 70s Yes music.

[umgekehrt]

I don't know if maturity is the correct concept here. I would say that Howe came around to see the relative merits of YesWest under Trevor's influence. But he continues to recognize that the music isn't as complex or interesting as 70s Yes music.
My thoughts exactly.

[cinderella]

I'd say Jon wrote most of the lyrics. But Trevor composed all the songs, he mixed and engineered it, he played the guitars, he played (most of) the keys. As for drums and bass, even here I doubt about the size of Alan's and Chris' contribution. Trevor clearly made them himself (just like on Can't Look Away), IMHO.

Trevor has the capability to do everything himself. As I once heard a radio announcer say...Trevor did everything but put the hole in the middle of the cd. I have an interview on tape, where Alan says that Trevor was such a great producer, he made his drumming sound better than it actually was.

And deep down, Steve Howe does appreciate the talents of Trevor Rabin.
He's a smart man. It can't be denied.

[ronsalehnasir]

Trevor has the capability to do everything himself. As I once heard a radio announcer say...Trevor did everything but put the hole in the middle of the cd. I have an interview on tape, where Alan says that Trevor was such a great producer, he made his drumming sound better than it actually was.

And deep down, Steve Howe does appreciate the talents of Trevor Rabin.
He's a smart man. It can't be denied.

I think the lyrics, especially the more etherial ones, bear the mark of Jon. But I don't know for sure. Also, Jon tends to compose his own melodies along with his own lyrics. That still leaves a lot of sound production and credit for Trevor Rabin.

[umgekehrt]

Trevor is a great producer. He knows his way around a studio and all albums that he produced sound great. Perfectly recorded, mixed and mastered.

[smatt]

UHHHHHHH Gnomes..... :lmao:

[umgekehrt]

Blonde, naked gnomes, sMatt?

[smatt]

Oh I like the Blnde Naked gnome well enough Umgy... It's the Treovr licking comment I wasn't too thrilled with... ;)

[smatt]

Trevor has the capability to do everything himself. As I once heard a radio announcer say...Trevor did everything but put the hole in the middle of the cd. I have an interview on tape, where Alan says that Trevor was such a great producer, he made his drumming sound better than it actually was.

And deep down, Steve Howe does appreciate the talents of Trevor Rabin.
He's a smart man. It can't be denied.



AHHHHH, the "Jack of all Trades, Master of none" :lmao: OK, corner it is.... :running:

[Steve St Thomas]

:lmao: Well anything Steve said that wasn''t "Trevor's the greatest, far better guitarist than me, and he was Yes' savior" would be patronizing to you Steve.... ;)

ooooooooooooooo that's an outright lie! Okay, outside, NOW! ;)

Honest, I read what Howe had to say, and it was slightly patronising. Better than 90125 yuck, but he's getting better. It's just when you say something, and then say another thing in the same sentence that completely goes against it (extreme example, but its just I pay attention to what people say), it comes off like getting those words out is a strain. I read what he had to say, I wasn't looking for ''Bring me Trevor's boots so that I may lick them''. I was just looking for a bit of respect towards another musician. It comes off diplomatic, but slightly patronising.

Aries. What can you do? ;)

[Steve St Thomas]

"so Trevor's opportunities were few and far between, really, compared to the rush of the 70s and the multi-faceted music that we made then. I did feel that the 80s were rather bland and rather straight ahead but I noticed that on the late Yes albums I use quite a lot of heavy sounds, DRAMA is quite heavy-metalish, I don't really think fundamentally it's that Trevor's style was overly influenced in heavy metal but he's actually a brilliant player and a very capable musician on the guitar and also on the keyboards. I do find that the combination that they created was a Yes that was going around the corner from, if you like, the intensities of anything from RELAYER to TORMATO, the complexity of like just the introduction to 'Future Times', you know it's got a real Yes thing, the musical work there is a kind of craft that's all over the 70s. "

This whole section being the Patronising Section. Word to word, statement by statement, he supports, then falls back, Supports then falls back, back and to the left, back and to the..... crap, had an Oliver Stone moment. Anyway, he says one thing, and then backpedals to support himself, never giving much information to actually back up what he's saying.

''The multi-faceted music we made then'' ---- that's Howe's opinion. That does not necessarily make it true. And production-wise, Rabin's work with Yes had many more facets, particularly in the vocal department, and in layers. But that's an argument to be had by everyone about this and that. What Howe means by ''multi-faceted'' needs to be explored to support the assumption it is.

Howe has just noticed he used heavy sounds on Drama???? Isn't that what Rabin ''fans'' have been saying for years?? As a fan of both musicians, I really can't get my head around the fact that if Rabin does it, it's damned, but Howe doing the same thing it's glorified. I've been saying that for months at this site. DRAMA was the next step towards anything found on 90125. Time and Time Again on ASIA's first album you might as well include it. There's things on Machine Messiah I hear Howe doing, that Rabin's doing on City Of Love. But what do I know? I've just listened to them for years. I noticed it before Howe did though, so I guess that goes to show that he's more aware of who HE is, rather than what he's doing.

[cinderella]

Trevor is a great producer. He knows his way around a studio and all albums that he produced sound great. Perfectly recorded, mixed and mastered.

I do believe he has a degree in sound engineering.

[Steve St Thomas]

Apologies if those posts o' mine read like Angry Young Man (or old). I'm really quite calm about it. :) Steve's getting better at giving Trevor some due, but he can't escape building his ownself up at the same time, mostly within the same sentence. So he's getting better, but I hope one day he realises that you can say something nice about someone, without saying something twice as nice about yourself right afterwards. ;)

[Bugeyes]

Hind sight is usually 20/20. I think Steve on Trevor (btw ew! that's what brought me into this thread) has gotten the dialog down. It's just the fans don't want to hear this. Fans want the high way to hell.

[proggtr1]

I think its cool that Steve gave Trevor some props for his contribution to YES....I mean i can understand the "sour grapes" aspect from Steve Howe...considering that the 3 YES albums that Trevor Rabin did with the band probably sold more then the whole back catalogue.....but they are two totally different song writters thats for sure...and i love both of their works.

[The Whale]

Apologies if those posts o' mine read like Angry Young Man (or old). I'm really quite calm about it. :) Steve's getting better at giving Trevor some due, but he can't escape building his ownself up at the same time, mostly within the same sentence. So he's getting better, but I hope one day he realises that you can say something nice about someone, without saying something twice as nice about yourself right afterwards. ;)

Right on Steve! vary nice post. My post before was better but I see whear your going I guess I just didn't get what you where thinking back them, but non the less your post was pretty good, compaired to my worst post. LOL!!!

I like how steve compares Trevor's material to probably the worst yes ablum that had been realised before Trevor joind the band.

Lets ckeck Steve Howes logic - Yes with Trevor is as good as Yes' worst album with me. Is that how he makes him self feal better? I do agree with him but thats not the point he should acknolege it as his opinon and not fact.
When speeking to Yes history he should look at it from the band perspective not the Steve Howe perspective. I like how Steve makes it sound like Trevor held Chris, Alan, and Jon at gun point and made them put out those three albums. Why is this even a constint Steve Vs. Trevor thing when there where so many more people involved?

[Steve St Thomas]

Right on Steve! vary nice post. My post before was better but I see whear your going I guess I just didn't get what you where thinking back them, but non the less your post was pretty good, compaired to my worst post. LOL!!!

I like how steve compares Trevor's material to probably the worst yes ablum that had been realised before Trevor joind the band.

Lets ckeck Steve Howes logic - Yes with Trevor is as good as Yes' worst album with me. Is that how he makes him self feal better? I do agree with him but thats not the point he should acknolege it as his opinon and not fact.
When speeking to Yes history he should look at it from the band perspective not the Steve Howe perspective. I like how Steve makes it sound like Trevor held Chris, Alan, and Jon at gun point and made them put out those three albums. Why is this even a constint Steve Vs. Trevor thing when there where so many more people involved?

Yea I hoped 'The Logic of Howe' would be seen sentence to sentence. Especially here:

I do find that the combination that they created was a Yes that was going around the corner from, if you like, the intensities of anything from RELAYER to TORMATO, the complexity of like just the introduction to 'Future Times', you know it's got a real Yes thing, the musical work there is a kind of craft that's all over the 70s.

Yes. Silent Spring is not complex. Nor are the musical movements of I'm Running. Just getting from Africa to Cuba to Broadway to Venice is very, very easy. No trouble at all. You just go around the corner. I'd have to hear Future Times, one more time, just to compare the 3.

[Rabin105]

hopefully thids mean Yes will play more rabin songs

[ronsalehnasir]

Yea I hoped 'The Logic of Howe' would be seen sentence to sentence. Especially here:

I do find that the combination that they created was a Yes that was going around the corner from, if you like, the intensities of anything from RELAYER to TORMATO, the complexity of like just the introduction to 'Future Times', you know it's got a real Yes thing, the musical work there is a kind of craft that's all over the 70s.

Yes. Silent Spring is not complex. Nor are the musical movements of I'm Running. Just getting from Africa to Cuba to Broadway to Venice is very, very easy. No trouble at all. You just go around the corner. I'd have to hear Future Times, one more time, just to compare the 3.
From my perspective, Silent Spring is not without merits but mostly fails as one of Yes' masterworks because it often appears to lack of cohesiveness and structural integrity. Although it is relatively complex in terms of changes in rhythm, tempo and melody, it is more fragmented and less whole than say Close to the Edge or Ritual. I think Side 1 of Talk contains the relatively strong songs that make that album worthwhile, i.e., The Calling, I am Waiting, Real Love and State of Play. These songs impress me as fresh, youthful, original and popish in a good way. In general, these qualities of Talk that I admire are less developed in Howe's collaboration with Yes. By contrast, Howe is the master of Yes' masterworks and his capacity to sustain the listener's attention through a 20 minute long song is his strength, which is not as developed in Rabin.

[pianozach]

I like 'em both.

Granted, they are two entirely different types of people and different types of musicians/songwriters. Each has some wonderful strengths. Each has performed and recorded some amazing music.

The only thing that would make me believe, though, that Steve doesn't still have a bug stuck about the whole Trevor thing would be if they collaborated on a Steve&Trevor album. (They could call it "Howe very Rabin of you!"). I'd buy it sight-unseen (or is that hearing unheard?).

:1loudspkr

[Rabin105]

I like 'em both.

Granted, they are two entirely different types of people and different types of musicians/songwriters. Each has some wonderful strengths. Each has performed and recorded some amazing music.

The only thing that would make me believe, though, that Steve doesn't still have a bug stuck about the whole Trevor thing would be if they collaborated on a Steve&Trevor album. (They could call it "Howe very Rabin of you!"). I'd buy it sight-unseen (or is that hearing unheard?).

:1loudspkr
I'd Buy it too :guitar: :guitar:

I'd love to see them play and record and tour with a backing band of Tony Kaye Tony Levin and Dylan Howe Playing yes songs like Miracle of life Future times as well as osome cool Guitar stuff (and maybe some drama)

[The Whale]

I'm just suprized that endless dream would be left out of any one's list of impressive songs on talk. It is a masterwork and at the same time vary fresh. Endless dream and in the precense of are the two best songs since Awaken. in my opinion.

[ronsalehnasir]

I'm just suprized that endless dream would be left out of any one's list of impressive songs on talk. It is a masterwork and at the same time vary fresh. Endless dream and in the precense of are the two best songs since Awaken. in my opinion.

In terms of recent long pieces of Yes music, I prefer Mind Drive or That That Is to Endless Dream. But I agree that In the Presence Of is very interesting to listen to. I'm just not that impressed with Endless Dream. It's not as well integrated as any Howe style masterwork. And the guitar is almost all heavy metal.

Although I earlier stated that Rabin's strong point is his ability to give Yes more conventional or popular appeal, Howe also does this but in a different genera. For example, several songs on The Ladder have a popular sound and one of them, I think it was "If Only You Knew," was frequently played on Easy Listening stations. By contrast, Trevor is more heavy metal.

[Steve St Thomas]

I'm just not that impressed with Endless Dream. It's not as well integrated as any Howe style masterwork. And the guitar is almost all heavy metal.

Yea, like Machine Messiah, Time and Time Again, Reach Out (Never Say No) , oh the list goes on really, but no need to nitpick. ;)

Although I earlier stated that Rabin's strong point is his ability to give Yes more conventional or popular appeal, Howe also does this but in a different genera. For example, several songs on The Ladder have a popular sound and one of them, I think it was "If Only You Knew," was frequently played on Easy Listening stations. By contrast, Trevor is more heavy metal.

Yea, like his Could There Be, or Love Will Find A Way, or Love Alone, or Where Will You Be, or Love Life (but I'm cheating there cuz that was a combination of Classical, Disco, Reggae, and Hard Rock -- really quite interesting to hear the 4 put together, in one song), but oh the list goes on.

Please don't take these posts as personally having a 'dig' at you, or I'm chasing ya round the Internet. Just an exchange of ideas and perspectives. You never know, one day we might agree. :)

[ronsalehnasir]

Don't worry about our differences Steve St. Thomas. I don't really want to argue. As time goes by, we will both mellow out and all of this won't matter in the end anyway. It's just that for me the 70s Yes represent nothing less than a numinous encounter with the very core of life (or cord of life). Trevor Rabin moves me, but just doesn't lead me to the place of inner peace and clarity, and emotional meaningfulness, that I experience when I listen songs like And You And I. I hope I will always find that subjective place of inner strength and goodness that Yes music has given me, because this accounts for much of my identity as a free and mystical being. No matter how torn and broken I may be, I am OK so long as I am, "...as one with the knowledge and magic of the source, attuned to the majesty of music..."

[Steve St Thomas]

Don't worry about our differences Steve St. Thomas.

Cool ;) Likewise.

[SadPreacher]

Apologies if those posts o' mine read like Angry Young Man (or old). I'm really quite calm about it. :) Steve's getting better at giving Trevor some due, but he can't escape building his ownself up at the same time, mostly within the same sentence. So he's getting better, but I hope one day he realises that you can say something nice about someone, without saying something twice as nice about yourself right afterwards. ;)

oh god...get over it...Howe has earned the right to brag himself up...and if i were him i would be ripping Rabin a new seat hole for taking it upon himself to change YES into...errrrrrr...a bad YES....but most of all...i blame Squire and Anderson for allowing it to happen in the first place....so what if Rabin is a wiz in the studio...he never could nor would replace Howe...he knows it, Steve knows it, and i know it....case closed...

[Timmo]

Like it or not, Trevor remade Yes into an 80s powerhouse. Give him chops for that.

I agree that the three Trevor albums don't have the resonance of TYA through GFTO (and even Tormato), but then again, how many DO?

Also...so what does this whole thread prove? That Steve Howe has a monstrous ego (not that he doesn't deserve it, he's a guitar god), but still?

Tell me something I don't already know.

Chris, Jon and Rick ain't exactly pikers in the ego department either.

And neither is Trevor, or he would never have survived three Yes albums.

So what? Great talents often have great egos. The proof is in the music.

At the very least, Trevor's three albums are brilliantly crafted pop music that takes advantage of some of the best talents available at the time.

Can you say the same thing about Asia? Steve wasn't exactly making music at the forefront of progressive rock at the time either.

[fish62858]

I'm just suprized that endless dream would be left out of any one's list of impressive songs on talk. It is a masterwork and at the same time vary fresh. Endless dream and in the precense of are the two best songs since Awaken. in my opinion.

i lovingly ( and i do mean LOVINGLY ) refer to that one as The Endless Song.... my initial reaction was and still is "it takes more than length to create an epic"

with the exception of OALH, i can't honestly call YesWest "pop" music. it is miles above pop music. Cinema is not a pop song. I'm Running is not a pop song. just because a song doesn't have time signature changes does not make it a pop song.
Feelings is a pop song. Woolly Bully is a pop song. there is a major difference.

and i certainly disagree that Rabin made Yes "bad" as described earlier. different is not bad, just different. different can be good.

[fovman]

There once was a man named Steve
Who always seemed to get peeved
A Trevor song?
That's just so wrong!
That’s not how “Yes” is perceived

[fish62858]

well done longfellow.... ;-)

[pedro skychaser]

There once was a man named Steve
Who always seemed to get peeved
A Trevor song?
That's just so wrong!
That’s not how “Yes” is perceived


TOUCHE FOR NOT BEING OBVIOUS +RHYMING TREVOR WITH CLEVER

[YESYOUANDI]

Trev is cool------he's no longer a member of YES.

So, all's well that ends well.

Cheers fans.