A sell out album?

[The Closer Edge]

Does anyone considder this to be a sell out album at all? Meaning do you people think Yes changed there style on this album just to have commercial hits? I remember what Trevor said in Yesyears. He was determined to get these songs out and there's only two ways to do music your way and the wrong way. To me it sounds like he was writing what came inside of him and not trying to score a hit. I mean everyone says 90125 is so comemrcial, but when they say that do they mean commercial like corporate or commercial because it's there biggest selling album. I don't think this is a sell out album. I think the only time they might have sold out if at all was the Union album which seemed more of a corporate decision instead of a band decision.

[Doktor Rokster]

No, I don't think it's a sell out at all, although it seems the corporate side of things thought there was more capitol to be gained by reverting to the Yes name, from the chosen band name of Cinema. I think the whole punk/new wave thing took all of the members of Yes by surprise and it took considerable guts to regroup and come up with something as technologically cutting edge as 90125 was. If there was a sell out by Yes, it was with the pretty wretched Tormato, but that's being a bit cruel, as they were creatively a bit washed up at the time. Looking back now, Asia appears to be the more commercially calculated of the two albums, whilst 90125 has stood the test of time very well as a supreme pop album.

[JL]

If you remember 1983-84, there was no way that anyone would have predicted that an album as progressive as 90125 under the Yes name would sell. Something entirely different was happening in pop at the time.

1980s teenage stoners (such as myself) who had no taste for 80s pop were listening entirely to 60s and 70s rock before 90125, unless you were hip enough to have known about 80s King Crimson (which, at the time, I was not) at least in the NJ town I was from. More of a hard rock/metal than prog kind of place.

90125 was a serious breath of fresh air in the most dismal days of the dark ages.

[The Closer Edge]

The only thing I don't like about this album or any of the Rabin era albums is that it has the Yes name on it. It doesen't have the Yes sound at all. I would have more respect for this album with the Cinema name on it which is what it really is a Cinema album. For an album for 1983 I think it's quite good. For a Yes album it really isn't. Don't get me wrong I do like it but I don't feel it's really Yes. Same thing with Genesis in the 80s. I still like them but not as much as 1969-1977. When Steve Hackett left it changed Genesis for the worst just like when Trevor joined the same thing. Anyway thats my two cents on the album. I only have it on cassette. I will probably eventualy buy the cd. I find it used alot.

[SuperTrooper]

Without 90125, Yes would be playing in bars in the 80's. If this album was a sell out then it worked, because Yes sold out concerts and records. This album, along with Asia, introduced people of my generation to Yes.

Yes would be bankrupting themselves if they rehashed the 70's stuff.

You may not like the hard rock direction that Yes took at this time, but many Yes fans do as witnessed on recent tours the songs that got the biggest responses from the audience was from the 80's.

[shortexchanges]

90125 is not anderson-squire-howe. That is what most die hards consider the apex of yes.

90125 is a YES album! There are some real gems in the album. Leave it is a YES song in the truest sense. Hearts is a classic. I enjoy hold on, it can happen. These are the genuine article of yesness. Some of the other songs are more pop and were designed to get yes back into the mainstream as a sellout headline act.

The immediate effect after the Drama tour was that Yes without anderson was not yes. Trevor Horn was treated very badly by the fans during the tour and many felt that they were sold a bill of goods not having advance notice that anderson was gone. Yes would never have sold out the garden 2 weeks into the tour. Its ashame as I think Drama is a better yes album than 90125.

Back in 83 though when Owner was on the air Yes was mainstream cool. Yesfans should thank Trevor Rabin for reanimating the Yes name and getting the then damaged brand back into the public eye.

Finally vocally the strongest vocals were Anderson, Squire, and Rabin, each who can sing lead vocal.

[BlueEagle]

90125 is a YES album!....Leave it is a YES song in the truest sense. Hearts is a classic. I enjoy hold on, it can happen. These are the genuine article of yesness. Some of the other songs are more pop and were designed to get yes back into the mainstream as a sellout headline act.
This is the reaction I find hardest to fathom. Since these songs were written almost entirely by Trevor BEFORE the idea of being YES came up, I don't understand the equating of 90125 to even DRAMA which was heading in a more rock/pop direction. If Jon had not joined at the last minute and 90125 had been released as CINEMA (even with the label sticker screaming "3 EX-YES MEMBERS"), nobody would be saying today "oh yeah, this is a YES album". CALLING it YES has made it so.

[Jackaranda]

Asia sold out, Yes didn't.

[proggtr1]

Asia sold out, Yes didn't.

I agree

[ZenGuitar]

I think they were trying to get the music out intact, AND trying to score a hit. Nothing wrong with that!

I would consider a musician working for someone like Ashlee Simpson to be selling out. I would not be mad at them for doing it, but would feel sorry that anyone could sink so low...

[SuperTrooper]

90125 is not anderson-squire-howe. That is what most die hards consider the apex of yes.

90125 is a YES album! There are some real gems in the album. Leave it is a YES song in the truest sense. Hearts is a classic. I enjoy hold on, it can happen. These are the genuine article of yesness. Some of the other songs are more pop and were designed to get yes back into the mainstream as a sellout headline act.

The immediate effect after the Drama tour was that Yes without anderson was not yes. Trevor Horn was treated very badly by the fans during the tour and many felt that they were sold a bill of goods not having advance notice that anderson was gone. Yes would never have sold out the garden 2 weeks into the tour. Its ashame as I think Drama is a better yes album than 90125.

Back in 83 though when Owner was on the air Yes was mainstream cool. Yesfans should thank Trevor Rabin for reanimating the Yes name and getting the then damaged brand back into the public eye.

Finally vocally the strongest vocals were Anderson, Squire, and Rabin, each who can sing lead vocal.

Not only did the Rabin era put Yes back into the spotlight, but 90125 influenced other bands, including Yes contemporaries Deep Purple who designed their Perfect Stranger album after 90125. Owner of a Lonely Heart is still one of Ritchie Blackmore's all time favorite rock riff.

[luckeydoug1]

No, not a sell out at all. These songs would have been good songs no matter who perfomed them. I continue to be bothered by the opinion that without Steve, the band is not YES. Many groups that last any amount of time go through personel changes. And, as I continue to argue, this was not meant to be YES. After spending some time with 90124 the whole picture has become even more clear to me. These are great songs. They were perfected, performed and recorded by 4 former YES members with Trevor. No more, no less. Comparing 90124 with 90125 I can hear a lot of YES influence in the final versions. Bottom line for me... the orginal intent was not for this to be a YES album. It just turned out that way. Since I was born in the early 50's I have been around long enough to have heard a whole lot of rock albums when they were new. For me, with the type of music I truely like, this is one of the greatest rock albums of all time.

[Soundchaser_413]

I don't really consider it a "sell out" album. FOr one thing it was never intended(at least initially)to be a Yes album. When all the basic tracks were first recorded they were still going by the name Cinema. It wasn't until Jon heard most of the songs and liked what he heard that he was invited to sing on the album. That is when they decided that "well if JOn sings on it we probably should call it Yes." IF this album was recorded under the name Cinema none of the criticisms or complaints by either fans or critics would crop up any more than they would criticize the latest Cars album.

[Steve Mahoney]

Does it matter who sold out.
If they make a buck with a commercial sound , then that is ok I feel.A mans gotta pay the bills.

[cinderella]

Does it matter who sold out.
If they make a buck with a commercial sound , then that is ok I feel.A mans gotta pay the bills.

Exactly. What's wrong with selling out once in a while.
It's better than drifting into obscurity. Yes had a number one song from 90125 and it was great.

I remember seeing Yes on MTV a lot during the 80's.
They had a lot of fun and seemed to really enjoy all the attention they were getting.

[Steve Mahoney]

Exactly. What's wrong with selling out once in a while.
It's better than drifting into obscurity. Yes had a number one song from 90125 and it was great.

I remember seeing Yes on MTV a lot during the 80's.
They had a lot of fun and seemed to really enjoy all the attention they were getting.

See great minds think a like Cin.
I am glad we are on the same team.

[YesForSure.]

The most shameful period in Yes history.. the dark ages of music.

[Roan's Lady]

The writing was very good and the album fit in perfectly with the times. Their shifting of gears heralded a new and prosperous age for Yes. What a remarkable success story.

I couldn't stand it. To me, it completely lacked the organic, earthy Yes I'd fallen for, and since hold as my favorite kind of Yes music. 90125 was machinery, right down to the album title and the cover.

I don't know if they "sold out", because to me that implies a real abandoning of doing the kind of music you love in order to make a buck. I think it's quite possible that the members of Yes were perfectly content with the music without much thought to the revenue it would generate. Who knows for sure?

[relayeire]

considering this album didn't begin life as a Yes album, no... even then, I'm not sure...

[BlueEagle]

Having three of your best known songs as themes for tv forensic murder shows is selling out. Having one of your songs in a car commercial is selling out.
I don't think 90125 was a sellout album. But it's odd in hindsight that if Jon really believed 90125, BG and TALK were the "new direction" of YES at the time they were released that suddenly it was back to the classic Yes format with KEYS.

[SilverShoes]

I know the "official story" is that the band only became known as Yes when they played back the tapes with Jon singing and realized it "sounds like Yes".

Being that Owner Of A Lonely Heart was really the first Yessong I ever heard (well, there was the snippets of Tempus Fugit and Roundabout in The Road To Asia documentary, but those don't count), it's hard for me to say whether or not I think it "sounds like Yes" or not.

Anyhow, given the fact that there's always three sides to every story (yours, mine and the truth), I wonder if the truth had a little more to do pressure from the record company to use a name that already had a history attached to it, ie "People have never heard of Cinema, but they have heard of Yes". This brings up two conjectures on my part:

1. Jon was really brought in because the record company was concerned about how the audience didn't really accept the Drama lineup. With Jon on board, they felt they would have something the fans would find more to their liking.

2. Tony was brought in, not because Squire felt bad but kicking him out of the band to make way for Rick, but in fact for legal/moral reasons: with Jon and Tony onboard, they had a majority of original members, and thusly it looked more "legit".

Of course, I have no way of proving any of this, but after hearing Jon and Bill give contradictory explanations for why Bill ended up in Yes (Jon says Bill answered their Melody Maker ad, Bill says the band answered his ad), as well the contradictions I've heard given by other band when talking about the past (David Lee Roth: "Did I quit or was I fired? That depends on what mood Eddie Van Halen is in when the day you ask him.").

Anyway, I don't think 90125 was a "sell out". It was meant to be a new band to begin with, and with Trevor being a very different musician from Howe, both in terms of playing, songwriting and even vocally (and considering that he was apparently initially meant to be the lead singer), it was going to be a "new beginning" as it were.

And even if there were commercial reasons for changing the band's sound (which there almost were...every record released on a major label has some amount of "marketplace" related thinking behind it), the music was still solid. I think the songwriting is pretty happening. There's really nothing I find embarassing on 90125.

Now, Big Generator, on the other hand, that's another story. They were trying to recreate the success of 90125, and failed miserably. There's some good songs on there, but there's also dreck like Big Generator itself.

[kmcpro615]

Does anyone considder this to be a sell out album at all? Meaning do you people think Yes changed there style on this album just to have commercial hits? I remember what Trevor said in Yesyears. He was determined to get these songs out and there's only two ways to do music your way and the wrong way. To me it sounds like he was writing what came inside of him and not trying to score a hit. I mean everyone says 90125 is so comemrcial, but when they say that do they mean commercial like corporate or commercial because it's there biggest selling album. I don't think this is a sell out album. I think the only time they might have sold out if at all was the Union album which seemed more of a corporate decision instead of a band decision.

It would be *extremely* naive to think that *anyone* making their living in the record business wasn't trying to sell out. What you are capable and/or willing to do to make that happen is an interesting discussion. As humans, we are not all created equally, nor are we afforded the same opportunities. Was 90125 a sell out? Absolutely.....but so is every other record Yes ever made. Some musicians are just better and/or more consistent at selling out. Without having any real insight, I would guess that this has been the topic of some very "spirited" discussions between the various and sundry members of Yes over the years. Furthermore, I would hazard a guess that the implosion of the record industry (making it damn near impossible for Yes to even make a reasonable profit on a new cd anymore) is the reason we haven't seen any new music from them of note in quite some time. Don't kid yourself.....just because musicians won't speak candidly in public about how important it is for them to "sell out" doesn't mean that they aren't trying in the best way they know how, given their opportunity and circumstance.

KMCc:)

www.myspace.com/kurtmichaels1

[BlueEagle]

...Anyhow, given the fact that there's always three sides to every story (yours, mine and the truth), I wonder if the truth had a little more to do pressure from the record company to use a name that already had a history attached to it, ie "People have never heard of Cinema, but they have heard of Yes".
I completely agree with this especially since Chris, Trevor and the record execs desperately wanted airplay.
This brings up two conjectures on my part:
1. Jon was really brought in because the record company was concerned about how the audience didn't really accept the Drama lineup. With Jon on board, they felt they would have something the fans would find more to their liking.
Right. If you listen to Alan on YESYEARS, it sounds like (at least to me) that Jon joining was Chris' and the execs idea and that Trevor was reluctant to see "his" band suddenly become YES. I kinda feel sorry for him- I can hear him thinking "oh crap- now I have to play that 70s hippie crap";)

[cinderella]

considering this album didn't begin life as a Yes album.



Absolutely true. It wasn't Yes, it was Cinema.
This was a Cinema album, and the songs were written by Trevor Rabin.
Actually I should say this was a Trevor Rabin album, that became a Cinema album, and then a Yes album.
That's just the way it is!


Who knew Jon Anderson would decide to join again and make it Yes............again.

[SilverShoes]

I kinda feel sorry for him- I can hear him thinking "oh crap- now I have to play that 70s hippie crap";)

Well, I know you're being facetious (or maybe not), but I can imagine Trevor having second thoughts when Cinema morphed into Yes.

Suddenly, you go from being a new band to being this group with this whole history attached to it. You have to play some of the band's back catalog onstage (though to be fair, they would have had to fill out the setlist with something, as the songs off 90125 total only about 40 minutes). And perhaps even worse for Trevor, suddenly, he has to deal with being compared to a guitarist who has nothing whatsoever to do with his approach to the instrument. If 90125 had been released as a Cinema album, it would probably be unlikely that he'd ever have to deal with "Oh, he's not as good as Steve" type comments.

On the Yesyears video, Trevor mentions that besides the call from Squire, he also heard from Keith Emerson about being in a band. I wonder if he sometimes wishes he had answered Emerson's phone call instead of Squire's. Then again, apparently, the band Emerson was working on was to involve Jack Bruce. If such a project had gotten off the ground, I wonder if Trevor would have been dealing with being compared to Clapton ("GREAT! In this timeline, they're comparing me to GOD!!!!!").

If Trevor thought arguing with Jon was a pain in the ass, I wonder what he would have thought of working with Emerson (given the stories of Emerson and Lake's clashes).

[YESOLA]

Absolutely true. It wasn't Yes, it was Cinema.
This was a Cinema album, and the songs were written by Trevor Rabin.
Actually I should say this was a Trevor Rabin album, that became a Cinema album, and the a Yes album.
That's just the way it is!


Who knew Jon Anderson would decide to join again and make it Yes............again.



I think it was both.

If you remember from the Yesyears video, Alan White mentions that in the interim preriod between Drama and 90125, they were interested and trying to "further the career of Yes.

I can't prove this, but one gets the feeling that Squire was justing waitng for something good enough to gel before they called Jon. He was not satisfied with a group called Cinema. He called that "working title."

And also, as mentioned before, listen to 90124 then 90125, you will find it quite "Yesed up" ...so they (even trevor , because he had no problem bringing Jon on to sing on it) did "Sell out" ...but the sellout was not the songs, but the move to Make it Yes.

It would not of sold a quarter as much if it had been Cinema.

[SilverShoes]

It would be *extremely* naive to think that *anyone* making their living in the record business wasn't trying to sell out.

You make a good point, though I have a hard time imagining bands like Yes, Genesis and Jethro Tull working on records like Tales From Topographic Oceans, Foxtrot or A Passion Play, thinking "Oh, this is the one that'll get us on Top Of The Pops!".

I remember Al Jourgenson, from the industrial band Ministry, had a great line about that. He said that bands always start of trying to being "artistic" and ignore any kind of concerns about being "radio friendly" or "top 40 potential". After a few years of starving to death, they tend to change their perspective on such things.

When people talk about bands like Genesis or Yes selling out, you have to consider what was going on with these guys in their personal lives. Most of these guys were now married (and in Phil Collins' case, by 1980, he was already divorced), some of them had children. When you're 21 and single, it's ok to say "Well, if this album flops, I'll get evicted, but so what?". When you're 40 and married and have children, you're responsible for the welll being of others and (hopefully) you've got a different set of priorities.

So if Yes and Genesis and other bands from that era seemed to be more radio friendly as time went on, it may have something to do with those kind of responsiblities.

And I stil say that there's a point for some of these bands where, you've been doing all this experimental stuff, doing 18 and 20 minute musical suites with odd time signatures and weird chord progressions and the most ridiculous lyrics, you start to run out of ideas for what to do next in that vein.

In the case of 90125, it's clear from listening to Trevor's solo albums that he was a more, uhm, middle of the road type performer to begin with, but maybe Chris and Alan felt they had gone as far as they could with what Yes did in the 70's. So that perhaps that played into the change of direction as well.

[YESOLA]

If you remember 1983-84, there was no way that anyone would have predicted that an album as progressive as 90125 under the Yes name would sell. Something entirely different was happening in pop at the time.

1980s teenage stoners (such as myself) who had no taste for 80s pop were listening entirely to 60s and 70s rock before 90125, unless you were hip enough to have known about 80s King Crimson (which, at the time, I was not) at least in the NJ town I was from. More of a hard rock/metal than prog kind of place.

90125 was a serious breath of fresh air in the most dismal days of the dark ages.


I know you wrote this three years ago, but this is a fantastic point, I was in the group and type of fan that you mention.

It was Yes, that got me watching all those King Crimson (on MTV of all things) concerts on TV, because of Bruford's presence (and I was thrilled that at the ABWH shows I was at because Burford / Levin did something similar in a duo like they did in the Crimso shows)..I couldn't get over that crazy Belew or that reclusive Fripp. Still watching them today!

[kmcpro615]

You make a good point, though I have a hard time imagining bands like Yes, Genesis and Jethro Tull working on records like Tales From Topographic Oceans, Foxtrot or A Passion Play, thinking "Oh, this is the one that'll get us on Top Of The Pops!". .

Well I think that when you are young, you are more naive and apt to believe what they say in your press clippings and it can skew your rationale. But those were much headier times weren't they? The fact is that in that time frame (largely thanks to the Beatles I think) there was some pretty trippy things breaking into the popular culture, and the fact is that for a brief window, bands like Yes, ELP, Genesis, Jethro Tull & Pink Floyd were indeed able to break into the popular culture. Some were able to stay at the party longer and more successfully than others, but that particular window of opportunity is long gone.

I agree with your Al Jourgenson aside. Most people do become more responsible as the grow older, but the bottom line for me is the same one as it has always been. Even though we may not be able to readily discern it, if you can follow the money trail, it will usually provide you with all the insight you need......

KMCc:)

www.myspace.com/kurtmichaels1

[luna65]

I do consider 90125 to be commerical but I don't consider it to be pandering. Another aspect that tends to get swept under the rug is that the sound of the record is due in very large part to Trevor Horn - who himself has said that he would have considered at least some of the record to be a sell-out in terms of how he perceived Yes (as a long-time fan) had he not worked on it. Horn was very insistent regarding the overall direction and therefore even the songs themselves are in a way his versions of those songs.

Some of the record was Trevor Rabin's songs which were then changed, some were songs written in collaboration; there's no doubt that the Cinema record (or whatever they would have called themselves) would have sounded different but it was almost a foregone conclusion from the outset that Cinema wouldn't have succeeded because both Horn and Phil Carson didn't believe that it could, and Carson couldn't get any true interest from Atlantic until Jon Anderson was part of the equation. But before that there was a push to supplant the lineup with an additional vocalist and someone who could write better lyrics.

It worked out well for everyone in the end: Horn was able to solidfy his reputation as a hitmaker with a very distinctive sound, the band was reborn, and Trevor finally achieved the worldwide success he had been seeking for nearly ten years.

[stephenlayton]

sell out? by 1975, theoretically they were rolling in money.... ever since they've been playing catch up and making a mess of it. These guys are all like us, they have to pay bills, put food on the table and if touring the same 5 or 6 albums means surviving, then perhaps in some people's eyes that equates to 'selling out'... the best and the worst thing that ever happened was 90125. There's no answer to this argument, it polarizes opinion, but there's nothing we can do and there was nothing the band could have done to alter the course of history.

[Bill Mocarsky]

I don't think 90125 is a sell out album for Yes.

The question should be: Did Cinema sell out?

I remember hearing songs from 90125 on the radio just before its release. It did sound different. I was thinking, is this Yes? Then, elements of Yes, like Squire's bass, Jons' voice and small traces of their complex arrangements became evident.

In my mind, I thought wow! This must be the reincarnation of Yes!

[90125yes]

memory recall

Cinema ( ie the 90125 lineup without anderson ) probably could not get a decent recording recording contract as Cinema and there was this other band called cinema so they could not call themselves cinema .

Squire contacted Anderson and he liked the music and the rest as they say is history

90125 is YES's biggest selling album , so of course it was a sell out

[Sound_Chaser1989]

Well, in all points declares on this thread, I believe 90125 to be a sell-out and a non sell-out album.

It was a sell-out because this was the most commercial album they released and it sold the most copies(well, close to the amount Tales from T.O. and C.T.T.E and Relayer did anyways combined)

And it was not a sell-out because this was the resurgence of Yes, despite them not having Steve Howe because he was in Asia at the time, but nonetheless, 90125 was a wonderful album and brought more fans to the Yes Camp. And the production values on this album and the mixing made this a overlooked classic.

So, in short, i believe this album to be a gem. Something worth keeping and passing down through the years to your children.

[bjlevine]

In the first place, the 90125 lineup is really Trevor Rabin's project. He came with songs like OOALH and Changes already written. I honestly think it was the fact that Chris and Alan were looking for a new direction.

As for how it evolved back into Yes with the arrival of Jon, I only know that I'm grateful for it. Though, I'm also grateful for the reassembly back in 1996.

I saw "Yeswest" play a couple of times (not including the Union tour). While we got a handful of classic Yes songs (HOTS, ISAGP, ST, YIND, AYAI), they pretty much kept to newer material. So instead of "sellout", I think that this was just a new group looking for a new direction.

[maninthemoon]

If you remember 1983-84, there was no way that anyone would have predicted that an album as progressive as 90125 under the Yes name would sell. Something entirely different was happening in pop at the time.

1980s teenage stoners (such as myself) who had no taste for 80s pop were listening entirely to 60s and 70s rock before 90125, unless you were hip enough to have known about 80s King Crimson (which, at the time, I was not) at least in the NJ town I was from. More of a hard rock/metal than prog kind of place.

90125 was a serious breath of fresh air in the most dismal days of the dark ages.

Couldn't have said it better. To me it was a new Yes for a new age, embracing some of the new technology and style yet making something completely fresh and new (and I'm not a huge Rabin-era fan, but at the time I was totally stoked).


I realize I overused the word new but am too lazy to rewrite.

[bjlevine]

I realize I overused the word new but am too lazy to rewrite.

I knew a Gnu with a new name that started with the greek letter Nu.

Now that's overuse.

[LJG]

I am nervous saying this.... but Yes would have more critical recognition and credibility if the 80's hadn't happened for them.

It would have been tough not succumbing to the world around them... but I think they lost a lot of respect by making that shift in the 80's. The band should either have stayed true... or split to do other projects until the musical climate shifted.

I am sorry they didn't pay more attention to bands like King Crimson and even Marillion in the 80's... Yes lost their way IMHO... and it has hurt them more longterm than it has helped them.

(Bias revealed... ducking onslaught...)

[mike on the goldie]

I thought that at the time, LJG, but disagree now. Back in 1983 I was disgusted at what I thought was a sell-out by my favorite band, but I love that album today (well except for OOALH and City of Love - everything else is magical). It has some wonderful and inspiring songs with the distinctive flavor that is only YES despite the pop elements. 90125 was as progressive as a top-selling album could ever possibly be.

[AmyK]

Sad but true, even in the 60's and 70's you could not "make it" - meaning platinum albums, airplay, and tours without producing a type of music the backers and execs wanted you to play. Going as far back as the Yes Album the "suits" were pressuring the band to make tough choices. Luckily, there was a good choice in Howe and one album later in Wakeman to produce some of Yes's best work. Producing the hit album Fragile gave the band some "breathing room" to be more artistic on the next few albums. As prog as a music form began waning in the late 70's you'll notice the sounds changing and songs like GFTO, Paralells, and Don't Kill the Whale became the singles that were bread and butter, while Awaken and OTSWOF were examples of the prog side for loyal followers of this genre.
The members were growing apart at this point, at a bad time financially for the Yes corporation as an entity. Drama was only moderately successful commercially, and the band was still in the red as a corporation.

I'm sure Trevor Rabin was not too worried about the direction of the band going back to the Close to the Edge era. If Yes had made something of this type of album in 1982, we probably would of never heard another album or tour again at least until the late 90's, if ever again.(This notion is truly ironic to the Troopers) The times had changed, the airwaves had changed, and I believe Yes West faced this reality and wanted success (and this is not a bad thing). The result was a high quality "radio-friendly" rock. They all kept to their artistic integrity as best could be done then and produced a great album.

It isn't all despair though. I think of Yes as a true survivor everytime I listen to an "In the Present" weed or the Magnification CD. I thank the Universe for all the great music they have bestowed upon us in all the years. Putting politics aside I am thankful to Jon, Chris, Steve, Bill, Alan , Rick, Tony Kaye, Patrick, Peter, Trevor Horn, Trevor Rabin, Geoff Downes, Eddie Offord, Billy Sherwood, Igor, Benoit David, Larry Groupe, and the various Orchestras and others who remain a footnote for producing some of the greatest music of the century that has enriched my life and thousands (millions) of others.

[SilverShoes]

sell out? by 1975, theoretically they were rolling in money.... ever since they've been playing catch up and making a mess of it. .

Theoretically being the key word. They spent massive amounts of money on the stage sets during the 74-76 era, and like most successful musicians, each of them spent money on various status symbols. Steve bought himself a guitar collection (which he now admits he probably wouldn't be able to afford these days), Rick invested in the Birotron project, and the others surely bought flashy cars if nothing else.

Point being, by the time 1984 rolled around, they probably weren't as rolling in money as they had been in 1975.

[90125yes]

90125 was a sell out

we are splitting hairs calling it cinema - it is YES

and i would give anything for YES to produce songs like that again

the songs are fresh and exciting

if it was not for this album YES would have died after Drama and we would not have wanted just 12 years of YES history would we ..

there would be nothing to talk about

[nightliner]

It was an album that helped keep the band alive. It gave them the biggest audience they ever had. I've said for a long time that if it hadn't been for Trevor Rabin, Yes would of called it quits a long time ago.

[Ceasar's Palace]

At the risk of repeating some of you, here's my answer.

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer:

90125 was a far cry from their earlier work.
There was very little to enjoy for the 70s fans.

I remember when Owner came out, I thought:
Great production, with all the sound
effects and that almost abstract guitar solo, but a little wasted on
such a poor composition. And what happened to Chris and Alan?
Their parts have never been this dull.
It was actually the b-side, Our Song, that kept my hopes alive.
Maybe not as trendy and flashy as Owner, but a much better song.

The rest of the album sounds much different than Owner,
it's Foreigner, Whitesnake, that kind of stuff. Not bad per se,
but not Yes-worthy either. Changes sounds like their trying to do another (mini) epic, but it's pretensions don't materialize. Same for Hearts.
Leave It, however, works, especially in the acapella version.

Had Yes failed to come back, they would have left an almost perfect catalogue for us to cherish. But 90125 sadly paved the way for a lot of
middle of the road songs for Yes.

Having said all that, I also have to say that each album of Yes post-Drama (including 90125) contains at least some wonderful music, and sometimes a lot. Therefore I'm not saying they should never have returned...

[Bluegrunt]

Long answer:

90125 was a far cry from their earlier work.
There was very little to enjoy for the 70s fans.

...

Great post .. I agree with much of what you say.

[Meng]

The only thing I don't like about this album or any of the Rabin era albums is that it has the Yes name on it. It doesen't have the Yes sound at all. I would have more respect for this album with the Cinema name on it which is what it really is a Cinema album. For an album for 1983 I think it's quite good. For a Yes album it really isn't. Don't get me wrong I do like it but I don't feel it's really Yes. Same thing with Genesis in the 80s. I still like them but not as much as 1969-1977. When Steve Hackett left it changed Genesis for the worst just like when Trevor joined the same thing. Anyway thats my two cents on the album. I only have it on cassette. I will probably eventualy buy the cd. I find it used alot.
Totally agree. I think a lot of it would have worked better for me as a Rabin solo album. If City Of Love isn't a Rabin solo track then I don't know what is.

[Roadkill]

I don't think it was so much a sell-out, more like they were adapting to the times. This was a different era for them and it was definitely a case of change-or-die for the old prog bands, certainly if they still wanted to play the Madison Square Gardens and Knebworth Parks of the day.

Still, I consider the music to not really be the heart and soul of Yes. Unlike Genesis, who were first and foremost a team of songwriters (and were very much prog-lite anyway), Yes were virtuoso musicians and revelled in the opportunity to show their chops. Playing overtly rhythmic music, short, shiny and accessible, seemed to me a compromise rather than a genuine musical venture. The fact that the minute Rabin left they returned to what they did best is the clincher for me.

[relayeire]

I would say yes, had the band gone straight into this configuration after Drama… instead, they split up, and a few members later began something which then morphed its way back into Yes – with a different emphasis… different primary songwriter, instrumentalist and even co-lead singer… the continuity was broken after that Drama split… if you look at 90125 next to TFTO, the former is far more commercial… but it wasn’t that band who made 90125… there was a full-scale cessation and restart…

if anything was a sellout, it was deciding to call that project Yes… they should’ve stayed as Cinema, even with Jon on vocals… they could’ve played old Yes material on tour along with the new songs, some of which were Yes-like… we’d probably still have gone to see them, right? I would’ve! then after another album/tour or two I imagine Trev would’ve gotten tired of that situation, some shifting would’ve happened, and Steve – by then done with his Asia and GTR commitments – would be back with the band… then they would say, “You know, we really should call this Yes…”

and they’d be right…

[fovman]

90125 was Yes' last GREAT album!....IMO

[CybrKhatru]

if anything was a sellout, it was deciding to call that project Yes..

I was thinking the exact same thing....
FWIW, I love 90125. It was the first Yes album I ever heard.

[Steve Mahoney]

If I want some YES with a bit of grunt I play this.
Some Awesome Rabin work here.

[Sonny G]

I think 90125 is a very fantastic record, I like the way Trevor's style brought YES back in the biggest way possible. I have the expanded edition and I even love the bonus tracks which is rare for me.

[somissound]

I think it was a very focused and finely produced album...

"Sell out album"? With songs like Hearts and Cinema, I don't think so... But Owner and Changes sure made life good for the guys and brought them a huge new fan base... ( a great move at the time )

It had a good balance of Trevor and the Yes rhythm section... The vocals are fantastic, imho...

It is NOT Relayer, but an interesting, rocking, reinvention, that I certainly enjoy...

[CybrKhatru]

I've always found it interesting (as Caesar's Palace says above) that Owner sounds nothing like the rest of the album. Owner also sounded like nothing else on Top 40 radio at that time (winter 1983/84).

Maybe that song was a sell-out, in a sense. Trevor Horn has said that it was imperative that Yes have a hit single. If anything, maybe Owner is more a Horn product than a Yes/Cinema product...

[relayeire]

Maybe that song was a sell-out, in a sense. Trevor Horn has said that it was imperative that Yes have a hit single. If anything, maybe Owner is more a Horn product than a Yes/Cinema product...

the (no pun intended) horn samples were certainly a Horn product... he'd used those James Brown samples previously with The Art Of Noise...

[likecats]

Considering that I thought Yes was gone forever after 1980 and the musical landscape had changed a lot in the early '80s, it was surprising and exciting to hear new music with the name Yes attached to it in 1983. I liked 90125 pretty well when I first bought it, but it didn't achieve classic status with me. I still prefer that cosmic, ponderous, loathed-by-rock-critics-and-punk-rockers '70s Yes anytime. Even though they're not my personal favorites, I'm glad the album and OOALH were hits, because otherwise Yes might have called it quits again. Was the album a sell-out? I don't think so. I think it was a comeback in an era that had not been kind to '70s rock bands.

[luna65]

I've always found it interesting (as Caesar's Palace says above) that Owner sounds nothing like the rest of the album. Owner also sounded like nothing else on Top 40 radio at that time (winter 1983/84).

Maybe that song was a sell-out, in a sense. Trevor Horn has said that it was imperative that Yes have a hit single. If anything, maybe Owner is more a Horn product than a Yes/Cinema product...

Horn's agenda (of finally having the latter-day Yes succeed) really shaped the album entire, I think, much to The Other Trevor's dismay. The Two Trevors was a battle for the ages, and yet, interestingly enough TH paid TR the highest compliment by insisting that song be included, and re-engineered it to be the best it could be. It is a synergy, I believe of:
TH's production and arrangement abilities
TR's skill with hooks and melody and a strong refrain/chorus
JA's "cosmic" lyrics.

But I also agree with the sentiment that calling the project Yes was the real sell-out, and yet, a foregone conclusion to those who were working behind the scenes. Phil Carson was the one who enabled Trevor to meet Chris and Alan but he was also the one who wanted Chris and Jon to get back together again, so everything which happened in between was subtlely and skillfully guided towards that goal. To say that they should have left it as Cinema is rather naive, there's no way Atlantic would have allowed them to release the album unless their particular demands were met (meaning: more commercial viability, even TH believed Cinema wouldn't succeed as it was). They might have found another distributor, but Carson wouldn't have necessarily recouped his rather substantial investment from anyone other than his employer.

[Ceasar's Palace]

Totally agree. I think a lot of it would have worked better for me as a Rabin solo album. If City Of Love isn't a Rabin solo track then I don't know what is.

If that's true, than what about Talk?
That was even more Trevors brainchild, with hardly any input by the others at all (writing and playing), save Jon...

[luna65]

I read a description - I think it was from TH - commenting that "City Of Love" was a good combination of Trevor's music and Jon's lyrics (sort of foreshadowing how they would work together on Talk, I suppose). However, I don't see the song as being all TR...the riff and solo, his playing, some of the lyrics, but beyond that the other elements woven into the song itself are in keeping with what Yes evokes, and I think that was the point of having Jon contribute lyrics, for example.

One of the strengths of 90125 is how there is a real continuity of experience across all of the songs.

[90125yes]

90125 was a big success - a sell out

i wish YES would repeat that success today

[90125yes]

Having three of your best known songs as themes for tv forensic murder shows is selling out. Having one of your songs in a car commercial is selling out.
I don't think 90125 was a sellout album. But it's odd in hindsight that if Jon really believed 90125, BG and TALK were the "new direction" of YES at the time they were released that suddenly it was back to the classic Yes format with KEYS.

_____


blue eagle get a life

90125 is still YES 's biggest selling album

it was the bridge that kept the band going


get over it !!!!


and before you ask i like all YES music but classic YES is the best

[SoLrSaYlR]

.

[90125yes]

.

___

and your point is ??

[the greenman]

has anyone here heard Trevor Rabin's 90124, which was issued a few years back & consists of the demos which went on to become the basis of this album? It's an interesting listen - most of the song structures are there, but lacking Chris/Alan's underpinning rhythm section & Jon's acoustic topping.

My own view on 90125 is it probably 'saved' the band, bringing them to a whole new audience. But then, reflecting on it, maybe the huge commercial success it brought let out its own demons. It's not all been plain sailing since, sadly..

[oliasdoug]

I will never apologize for liking the Rabin-era Yes. Everyone who "hated" Yes during that period is entitled to do so...to each their own. I absolutely loved all 3 Trevor albums--for me, 2 of them were flawless and 1 of them had one crap song on it. Not too bad. Seeing them on all 3 tours was pure magic...it may not have been classic Yes, but having BEEN there, I can tell you that ALL the guys looked like they were kids that had been turned loose in candy stores up on stage. Seeing them with their 1st hit single on MTV in 1983 wasn't a harbinger of doom for me, it was a RUSH!!! OK, so they weren't doing 20-minute epics anymore--they were going into the next phase of Yes for that time, and it was a relief to know that we hadn't seen them tumble into the abyss after the release of DRAMA! Trevor was a damn good singer, a damn good guitarist, and he gave the band a rejuvenation the likes of which none of us could have expected. I'm guessing it'll probably never happen, but I wouldn't mind seeing him work with Yes again!

It's no secret that Yes have made bad decisions in their careers regarding the juggernaut that is THEIR MUSIC. But I just can't buy the gloom&doomers who say that the Rabin era was Yes's dark age. That was some of the most joyous, inventive, daring & free-spirited music they ever put out...but as we are a very diverse group of music-lovers, it's understandable that this is one of those topics we'll never be in complete agreement over. C'est la vie.

[90125yes]

I will never apologize for liking the Rabin-era Yes. Everyone who "hated" Yes during that period is entitled to do so...to each their own. I absolutely loved all 3 Trevor albums--for me, 2 of them were flawless and 1 of them had one crap song on it. Not too bad. Seeing them on all 3 tours was pure magic...it may not have been classic Yes, but having BEEN there, I can tell you that ALL the guys looked like they were kids that had been turned loose in candy stores up on stage. Seeing them with their 1st hit single on MTV in 1983 wasn't a harbinger of doom for me, it was a RUSH!!! OK, so they weren't doing 20-minute epics anymore--they were going into the next phase of Yes for that time, and it was a relief to know that we hadn't seen them tumble into the abyss after the release of DRAMA! Trevor was a damn good singer, a damn good guitarist, and he gave the band a rejuvenation the likes of which none of us could have expected. I'm guessing it'll probably never happen, but I wouldn't mind seeing him work with Yes again!

It's no secret that Yes have made bad decisions in their careers regarding the juggernaut that is THEIR MUSIC. But I just can't buy the gloom&doomers who say that the Rabin era was Yes's dark age. That was some of the most joyous, inventive, daring & free-spirited music they ever put out...but as we are a very diverse group of music-lovers, it's understandable that this is one of those topics we'll never be in complete agreement over. C'est la vie.

_____

good post - well said :appl[1]:

[SoLrSaYlR]

___

and your point is ??
If you must know...
My point is WHAT'S THE POINT? You like what you like. I just don't see the point of getting all pissy about someone else's opinion.
Anyway this classic/Yeswest civil war is getting really boring.

[CybrKhatru]

I too loved the Rabin-led Yes. These days I probably play 90125 more than any other Yes album.

I'll always love Close to the Edge, The Yes Album, Going For The One, etc...but Doug nailed it...those three albums (90125, BG, Talk) are loaded with great music. Fun and inventive indeed.

[90125yes]

If you must know...
My point is WHAT'S THE POINT? You like what you like. I just don't see the point of getting all pissy about someone else's opinion.
Anyway this classic/Yeswest civil war is getting really boring.

___

nothing to do with classic / yeswest war

we are talking about 90125

[90125yes]

I too loved the Rabin-led Yes. These days I probably play 90125 more than any other Yes album.

I'll always love Close to the Edge, The Yes Album, Going For The One, etc...but Doug nailed it...those three albums (90125, BG, Talk) are loaded with great music. Fun and inventive indeed.

____

well said , agree 1000%:appl[1]: :appl[1]: :appl[1]: :appl[1]:

[Jackaranda]

I too loved the Rabin-led Yes. These days I probably play 90125 more than any other Yes album.

I'll always love Close to the Edge, The Yes Album, Going For The One, etc...but Doug nailed it...those three albums (90125, BG, Talk) are loaded with great music. Fun and inventive indeed.

:beerchugr:

:appl[1]:

:heydude:

:clap: :clap: :clap:

:thumbs:

[BlueEagle]

___

if you can't express yourself properly - then please don't bother at all !!!
Great Idea. Why don't YOU start by stop telling people to get a life. Nobody needs your snotty-ass sarcasm.

[90125yes]

Great Idea. Why don't YOU start by stop telling people to get a life. Nobody needs your snotty-ass sarcasm.

gee thanks

[booj]

_____


blue eagle get a life

90125 is still YES 's biggest selling album

it was the bridge that kept the band going


get over it !!!!


and before you ask i like all YES music but classic YES is the best
you sir are a very angry and agressive person.Please allow others to express their views freely

[90125yes]

peace

[Ig]

Yesfans should thank Trevor Rabin for reanimating the Yes name and getting the then damaged brand back into the public eye.



I think that should read "Trevor Horn", not Rabin.

The album works because of it's production. It's a collection of mediocre rock songs, lifted by the "yes treatment" and flawless production, sensitive to the skills of the musicians and the spirit of the age.

I like it a lot, and don't consider it a sell out. If it has a low point it's the distinctly uninventive guitar work. It's high point is very much Trevor Horn getting the best out of that combination of Yes arrangements and an at-the- time ultra modern production

[90125yes]

[quote=booj


_____

apologies

peace love and all that to keep you happy :nutkick:

[booj]

do it for yourself

[90125yes]

90125 Was a great album that kept the YES name going - full of fresh exciting songs and i remember the sessions under the name of cinema

[xlink_nz]

I think that should read "Trevor Horn", not Rabin.

The album works because of it's production. It's a collection of mediocre rock songs, lifted by the "yes treatment" and flawless production, sensitive to the skills of the musicians and the spirit of the age.

I like it a lot, and don't consider it a sell out. If it has a low point it's the distinctly uninventive guitar work. It's high point is very much Trevor Horn getting the best out of that combination of Yes arrangements and an at-the- time ultra modern production

Whilst I agree with your comments regarding production I would not underestimate the influence of Rabin on the YesWest albums or specifically the album in question, he offered a lot more than "uninventive guitar work", I would argue the low point [for me] was not hearing enough of Tony Kaye

That said I very much like this album for Yes being once again a leader and as also as someone stated - so fresh

[BRINGRABINBACK]

Grammy for 90125.

[BRINGRABINBACK]

What does "selling out" mean anyway? A release of music that a lot of people like?

[90125yes]

What does "selling out" mean anyway? A release of music that a lot of people like?

___

yes - pretty much and it is YES's best selling album a fact that a lot of older YES fans don't accept sadly

[TOBYSGRAPHICGOKART]

___

yes - pretty much and it is YES's best selling album a fact that a lot of older YES fans don't accept sadly

I'm an older fan,Mike and I bow to your superior knowledge regarding how well 90125 sold compared to other (far superior) Yes albums.
Remember,best selling does not necessarily equate to better quality.
90125 being a perfect example of this (IMO,of course).

[Vevey]

I don't much care for selling out.
I hear so many arguments about it, particularly among my cybermetal friends around my age, who quite often will stop liking a band the instant the band stops being underground and becomes 'too popular'. As if somehow the popularity affects the quality of the music!

I try not to judge based on success or popularity. If I like an album that's really all that matters to me, and I happen to like this one :)

[90125yes]

I'm an older fan,Mike and I bow to your superior knowledge regarding how well 90125 sold compared to other (far superior) Yes albums.
Remember,best selling does not necessarily equate to better quality.
90125 being a perfect example of this (IMO,of course).

__-


agreed and i have to say i like classic yes material better

i should have callled myself CTTE mike

[TOBYSGRAPHICGOKART]

I don't much care for selling out.
I hear so many arguments about it, particularly among my cybermetal friends around my age, who quite often will stop liking a band the instant the band stops being underground and becomes 'too popular'. As if somehow the popularity affects the quality of the music!

I try not to judge based on success or popularity. If I like an album that's really all that matters to me, and I happen to like this one :)

I'm glad that you like 90125,Holly.
And I don't dislike it because it was "too popular" or that it "sold out".
I couldn't care less about any of that stuff.
I just didn't like it. It may have said Yes on the album cover and I can certainly understand why it made commercial sense for them to do that once it became clear Jon was back in the fold,but to me this was and still is a Cinema album.
And I just happen to prefer the earlier Yes stuff a zillion times more.
Nothing whatsoever to do with selling out.

[yarstruly]

I prefer the classic albums myself, BUT is still think 90125 is a GREAT album! I DON'T think it is a "sell-out" as such, because I don't think they went out of their way to make a commercial sounding Yes album. That is just the way it turned out, and compared to much of what was coming out in 83-84, it is really very progressive in many ways....maybe the songs are more compact, but there is a lot going on in them...

For comparison, here are the top 10 singles from Jan '84

Top Ten Singles
http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/1x1.gif
January
1. "Owner Of A Lonely Heart," Yes
2. "Say Say Say," Paul McCartney & Michael Jackson
3. "Talking In Your Sleep," Romantics
4. "Break My Stride," Matthew Wilder
5. "I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues," Elton John
6. "Twist Of Fate," Olivia Newton-John
7. "Karma Chameleon," Culture Club
8. "Say It Isn't So," Hall and Oates
9. "Union Of The Snake," Duran Duran
10. "Running With The Night," Lionel Richie

[90125yes]

I prefer the classic albums myself, BUT is still think 90125 is a GREAT album! I DON'T think it is a "sell-out" as such, because I don't think they went out of their way to make a commercial sounding Yes album. That is just the way it turned out, and compared to much of what was coming out in 83-84, it is really very progressive in many ways....maybe the songs are more compact, but there is a lot going on in them...

For comparison, here are the top 10 singles from Jan '84

Top Ten Singles
http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/1x1.gif
January
1. "Owner Of A Lonely Heart," Yes
2. "Say Say Say," Paul McCartney & Michael Jackson
3. "Talking In Your Sleep," Romantics
4. "Break My Stride," Matthew Wilder
5. "I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues," Elton John
6. "Twist Of Fate," Olivia Newton-John
7. "Karma Chameleon," Culture Club
8. "Say It Isn't So," Hall and Oates
9. "Union Of The Snake," Duran Duran

10. "Running With The Night," Lionel Richie


____

glad to say we beat culture club

[Xanadu93]

Everyone sold out in one way or another.... Rush went '80s with a ton of keyboards, and dressing in suits live. Does this mean that music from that era sucks? I find Power Windows to be a 'perfect' Rush album.

In the same breath, 90125 is also a perfect album. So what if Yes weren't making twenty-minute epics? How long can you keep making songs like "Close To The Edge", "Ritual", or "The Gates of Delirium"? At the rate that Yes did in the '70s, not for long. Going For The One features only one song over ten minutes in length, and Tormato has not one song over eight minutes. Yes had to evolve - heck, they evolved from the first two albums when they made The Yes Album! Of course, classic Yes isn't all about love songs (though some songs, such as "Onward", were), but at least the ones on 90125 aren't bubblegum-pop.

The end result? One of the greatest albums, and one of the best-sounding albums (both IMO).

[soulshiner]

It is a simple fact of this life that people do not tolerate change well. For the devoted fan, the music that shaped them during their formative years often becomes increasingly important as they grow older. As a band evolves and reinvents itself, these fans often react with righteous indignation. They have crystallized an image of the band and its music that resists change. The emotional investment is too high. They become dogmatic, dig in their heels, and insist on the essential rightness of their opinions.

The band is bigger than one particular sound. It has many different sounds and faces. Sell out? No. Just a damn good record that gave us a reinvented Yes. It's all part of the band's rich history. Just my opinion - your mileage may vary.

[Borris]

It is a simple fact of this life that people do not tolerate change well. For the devoted fan, the music that shaped them during their formative years often becomes increasingly important as they grow older. As a band evolves and reinvents itself, these fans often react with righteous indignation. They have crystallized an image of the band and its music that resists change. The emotional investment is too high. They become dogmatic, dig in their heels, and insist on the essential rightness of their opinions.

The band is bigger than one particular sound. It has many different sounds and faces. Sell out? No. Just a damn good record that gave us a reinvented Yes. It's all part of the band's rich history. Just my opinion - your mileage may vary.


While this can be true, i know i withheld appreciation from some of Zappa's later albums for this reason for a while. I don't think this is the case with 90125, as the main songwriter, I would even go so far as to say the leader of the band for this album, was completely new. This wasn't just a band changing direction, this was a substantially different band and there is no guarantee that just because you liked the music of Anderson, Squire, Wakeman, Howe & White that you would also like the music and singing of Rabin.

Personally I quite like 90125, but it doesn't do for me what CttE or even The Ladder does. It is an interesting album but its shiny 80's sound does not transport me to fantastic places as do many of Yes' other albums. It is well constructed the musicianship is very good, but it lacks creative audacity IMO.

I do agree with you that it is a part of the bands rich history, I am glad they made it and also glad that they changed some more after that one.

[soulshiner]

It is an interesting album but its shiny 80's sound does not transport me to fantastic places as do many of Yes' other albums.

My preference is for the classic Yes sound. It's good that we can find good in both eras because there is a lot there.

While certainly 90125 is a product of the 80's, I find that its sound hasn't dated nearly as bad as other prominent albums from the same era.

[relayeire]

While certainly 90125 is a product of the 80's, I find that its sound hasn't dated nearly as bad as other prominent albums from the same era.

I agree... some 80s music really grates on me production-wise (Phil Collins/Genesis - among others - I am looking in your direction), but I think this holds up pretty well... it has a sheen to it, but it doesn't sound as phony or trite as some 80s stuff... surprisingly powerful... probably because most of the tunes outside Leave It use real drums, and the guitars are so much more prominent than a lot bands would have them at that time...

[CybrKhatru]

I agree that a lot of the production tricks and sounds used on the 80s Genesis and Phil records have not aged well. 90125 has aged much better sonically in comparison. :) IMO and YMMV

[90125yes]

i think if YES produced music of 90125's standard in 2009 we would not complain would we ???

[Close to Loch Ness]

As I see it 90125 was a Trevor Rabin/Cinema album. It was a corporate decision to pull in Jon Anderson and release it under the Yes name.
The commercial success of the album gave the band enough clout to claim "lost royalties" from previous work and if it wasn't for this single album I doubt that we would have had the ladder, magnification, symphonic or tsongas goodies to enjoy today.

I am a classic Yes lineup fan myself, but I don't underestimate the importance of this album.

[mike on the goldie]

As I've said before, I regarded it as a sell-out album when it came out, but no more: today I think it is a near-perfect album. Sometimes we just have to be open and assess things on their own merits rather than being overly attached to previous criteria. In doing so I was finally able to appreciate the brilliance of 90125 and am the richer for it.

[yesman1955]

NO! Actually Jon was pulled in because he stopped by the studio to see Chris he heard what they were playing and they agreed that Jon's voice would be a good add to the sound. I thought Yes was no more till this came out. I enjoyed it from the minute I found it.

[90125yes]

so 90125 was a sell out album

we are agreed !!!!

are we >????

[TOBYSGRAPHICGOKART]

Well Mike (90125yes),it was quite obviously a "sell out" album but only in the sense that,as you yourself have been at pains to point out on several occasions,it sold more records than any Yes album.

The real question should have been,was 90125 a Yes album at all?
I know what my answer to that one would be!

[90125yes]

Well Mike (90125yes),it was quite obviously a "sell out" album but only in the sense that,as you yourself have been at pains to point out on several occasions,it sold more records than any Yes album.

The real question should have been,was 90125 a Yes album at all?
I know what my answer to that one would be!

_____

was robbie keane a liverpool player - YES

sorry could not resist


so YES


but at least they kept YES going until the classic lineup ....

[steveninchicago]

A sell out? Not at all. Read the lyrics of 90125 and tell me if anything there would appeal to a mass audience? Heck, after all these years I still dont know what half the songs mean. But, it is definitely one of my favorite YES albums to be sure. Each time I hear it, I discover something new. "It Can Happen" is just incredible.

Remember, 90125 was released when music videos were a way for an artist to promote their music. I'm sure they had this mind when they released the LP, but I don't consider this a sell-out. All bands were marketing their music for videos at the time...Van Halen (1984 - Jump) is another example.

[90125yes]

90125 was YES's most sucessfull album

so just accept it - then get over it

why don't we just embrace all eras of YES

if you want to be picky everyone knows CTTE , Drama and 90125 sound so different but just love the music !!!

aaargggh

[jjp735i]

The only thing I don't like about this album or any of the Rabin era albums is that it has the Yes name on it. It doesen't have the Yes sound at all. I would have more respect for this album with the Cinema name on it which is what it really is a Cinema album. For an album for 1983 I think it's quite good. For a Yes album it really isn't. Don't get me wrong I do like it but I don't feel it's really Yes. Same thing with Genesis in the 80s. I still like them but not as much as 1969-1977. When Steve Hackett left it changed Genesis for the worst just like when Trevor joined the same thing. Anyway thats my two cents on the album. I only have it on cassette. I will probably eventualy buy the cd. I find it used alot.

I have to agree with this, plus I don't like anything Rabin was on. I never thought he fit YES at all. Never listen to any of the albums he was on. I think we would have had some better YES music if Rabin never was part of YES. Can I rip on him anymore, but I won't.

jjp

[90125yes]

I have to agree with this, plus I don't like anything Rabin was on. I never thought he fit YES at all. Never listen to any of the albums he was on. I think we would have had some better YES music if Rabin never was part of YES. Can I rip on him anymore, but I won't.

jjp

____

bahh humbug

are you saying that you don't like it with jon , chris , tony and alan as well ??

if it was not for this lineup , YES would have died in 1980

did you want that ???


and did you not like the union tour either ???

[RobAdams]

I think it was a great album...Many Yes albums are even greater, but I remember when I bought the OOALH single. I was thrilled that Yes was back, even if the line-up was a bit strange.

OOALH made me think "WTF? This is the most commercial sounding Yes I've ever heard." Then I flipped over the record and heard "Our Song". It sounded more modern than the Yes I loved, but it still had what I loved about Yes. Chris Squire's bass riffs are fun to hear, Jon still sounded good and still sang lyrics that didn't seem to mean anything. Tony Kaye was back, and he sounded great...Alan was still there banging away as usual, and this new guitarist Trevor seemed to give the band new life. Not meant as an insult to Steve Howe at all! Rabin helped bring Yes into the 80's. Most of us figured Yes was over when they toured "Tormato" from 1978-79 and split up after attempting a follow up album. Then "Drama" was a major shock. I didn't appreciate "Drama" until much later on.

I felt that OOALH was a sell out in a way, but they needed it! The 90125 album wasn't a sell out in my opinion. Just that one song!!! And it was great to hear Yes on the radio!

[jjp735i]

____

bahh humbug

are you saying that you don't like it with jon , chris , tony and alan as well ??

if it was not for this lineup , YES would have died in 1980

did you want that ???


and did you not like the union tour either ???

I like all the other albums. Sorry i don't like Rabins style of playing. To rock and it's not YES. I don't beleive YES would have died otherwise, jumping the gun aren't we. Sorry I don't like Rabin, never did and probably never will. We got Drama without Rabin, I think that is great album.

I wasn't that impressed with the Union Tour over other concerts I've seen.

jjp

[Stever]

I never thought of it as a sell out. More just like a chapter, or an era. It shared top billing in my house with the new KC sound, and the great Peter Gabriel and Robert Plant stuff coming out around then. We thought it was great. Different, and more commercial, for sure, but still quite distinctly tinged with that difficult to describe "Yesness". Sell out? Nah. I think it had artistic integrity and a type of depth that other albums of the time lacked. As usual, Yes came through with something both ahead and germain to its time, but also, outside of it. Nobody in the music buying public was in the mood to buy 25 minute songs anymore. It didn't fit with the lifestyle, but they still wanted the unsurpassed muscianship, stunning vocals, and tight arrangements that only Yes could pull off, and a harder, but more compact version. Plus, after Asia (which was pretty good....don't pounce), it was so freaking awesome to see Yes back on the stage and hear them on the radio. I haven't forgotten hearing OoaLH on the radio the first time, and knowing it was Yes right after "Move yourself.....". I've mentioned before, that I even thought it might be Howe on guitar, having some fun with some edgy riffs. I seriously went to the record store and picked up the single, (I never bought singles), that day. The single sleeve had the line-up on it. JA, CS, & AW with Tony Kaye back after many years absence, and who's this Trevor Rabin fella? No internet then. It took me a while to track down that particular info. EVERYBODY I knew loved this album. I've never gone with a larger group of friends to a concert as we had when we all headed over to East Rutherford to see what would be one of the most memorable shows I've seen, (and I've seen a lot). I guess it was just the time. It was exactly the right time for 90125. It was perfect.

Yes......As an album in retrospect, I currently get more enjoyment from Relayer, CTTE, Fragile, BG, Talk, Drama and GftO. But it was what it was, and at the time.....it was incredible!

[Soundchaser_413]

90125 was progressive for Yes in the sense that it wasn't a rehash of what had already been done by the band before like say the keys to ascension studio tracks. 90125 was fresh. It was different. Many long time fans didn't like it because it was different and not what they were used to. Was it a sell out? Not really. Was it a yes album? Not any less of a Yes album than Drama. It wasn't originally intended to be one but when you have Jon singing on an album with three other Yes members how could it not be?

[Altres]

I remember being at work and everyone all of a sudden knowing who Yes were. I was confused, after Yesshows my musical nose was sniffing in other arenas and I had no idea that hit single on the radio was Yes. I didn't think the song was anything special, just OK. It did sound "big" and "forced" to me at the time and certainly way overproduced for my own tastes but I didn't detest it, I simply didn't relate to it.

In a way it perhaps took away the potential for a raft of Yes releases in the '80's I'd have enjoyed more fully with Wakey and Howe involved, but then again maybe it would never even have happened, and it did bring Yes to a huge audience.

Brian

[rmig68]

I loved 90125. Not only was it extremely innovative, it brought the Yes spirit into the MTV world, which, now looking back, was quite innovative as well. Of course we know how MTV turned out, but there was a glimmer in time where experimentation with emerging video technology married with Trevor Horn-style production.

I really don't care to hear the argument about Trevor Rabin's MTV-era looks. You all may remember the colossal hit "Asia" was, do in no small part to the dawning of MTV.

I thought that Yes hit a homerun with everything about this album.

I love the songs, the style, the live shows, the hip-ness, the compactness (and that was important in the dawning of the CD era as well.)

Great time for Yes, this was. I remember so many people coming up to me and saying, "Wow, man, I can see why you love Yes. What a great album" Then after, I'd run into other people after seeing them live and they were just absolutely blown away.

...I tried, but I never had the heart to introduce too many to the likes of Relayer and Tales, but, there were a few who still to this day love Yes in many of it's incarnations, due mainly to this album, which I feel stands up on its own as well.

90125, the "Gateway Drug to Yes"

[90125yes]

I loved 90125. Not only was it extremely innovative, it brought the Yes spirit into the MTV world, which, now looking back, was quite innovative as well. Of course we know how MTV turned out, but there was a glimmer in time where experimentation with emerging video technology married with Trevor Horn-style production.

I really don't care to hear the argument about Trevor Rabin's MTV-era looks. You all may remember the colossal hit "Asia" was, do in no small part to the dawning of MTV.

I thought that Yes hit a homerun with everything about this album.

I love the songs, the style, the live shows, the hip-ness, the compactness (and that was important in the dawning of the CD era as well.)

Great time for Yes, this was. I remember so many people coming up to me and saying, "Wow, man, I can see why you love Yes. What a great album" Then after, I'd run into other people after seeing them live and they were just absolutely blown away.

...I tried, but I never had the heart to introduce too many to the likes of Relayer and Tales, but, there were a few who still to this day love Yes in many of it's incarnations, due mainly to this album, which I feel stands up on its own as well.

90125, the "Gateway Drug to Yes"

___


hey that is one fantastic post

that is how i remember 90125

i was in europe on holiday and in the night clubs of ibiza OOALH was being played and YES was hip and in vogue

everywhere i went YES was being mentioned


great days

[rmig68]

___


hey that is one fantastic post

that is how i remember 90125

i was in europe on holiday and in the night clubs of ibiza OOALH was being played and YES was hip and in vogue

everywhere i went YES was being mentioned


great days

Yet, songs like "It Can Happen," and "Hearts" introduced many popsters to the more positively mystical side of Yes. I think "Hearts" got the loudest ovation of the night. Mainly because us old Yes fans appreciated it, but also the newer fans knew it too. Remember the holographic laser Earth turning into a heart during that song live? It still gives me shivers thinking about it. Sure, I was on purple microdot that time...but it was still a lovely, universal feeling of oneness.

"Big, global oness, this album had." -Yoda 1984

I also thought "Leave It" was brilliant. A football team mate of mine loved that song. Who'd a thunk?

90125, a brilliant album and concept!

[90125yes]

Yet, songs like "It Can Happen," and "Hearts" introduced many popsters to the more positively mystical side of Yes. I think "Hearts" got the loudest ovation of the night. Mainly because us old Yes fans appreciated it, but also the newer fans knew it too. Remember the holographic laser Earth turning into a heart during that song live? It still gives me shivers thinking about it. Sure, I was on purple microdot that time...but it was still a lovely, universal feeling of oneness.

"Big, global oness, this album had." -Yoda 1984

I also thought "Leave It" was brilliant. A football team mate of mine loved that song. Who'd a thunk?

90125, a brilliant album and concept!

_____

well said again

it got YES a whole new generation of fans

along with the older ones ( i am 48 )

[YESOLA]

I really don't care to hear the argument about Trevor Rabin's MTV-era looks.

MTV era looks? haha, I nver hold that against him, he was a natural.

What was an eye sore was seeing Chris, Jon and Tony go blondish..How bout the makeup on Chris for the "it can Happen" video, yeash, he lloked like some long lost Aunt.....now that was rough. Chris looked pretty cool during the Big G tour though.

;)

[YESOLA]

I never thought of it as a sell out. More just like a chapter, or an era.

Yeah it was an interesting time, for some of the prog acts...their "time" had since past, but some were enjoying their biggest commercial success ever (Yes, Asia, Crimson, genesis, gabriel etc).

As critical as I have been of Yes West at times, there is no way I consider 90125 a sellout.

I dont know if this has been mentioned , but it was trevors material that was seen as a bit "left of center" and in fact it was the fact that he was playing with the Yes dudes, and Utlimately the late addition of Jon Anderson that made this album commericially viable.

The material was right for the time, but it was the name YES that alowed much of it to get intial entry to the market, there is no way that Rabin would of been able to realease this stuff as a solo artist and have the success, or even Cinema alone, although that would of been better.

Andersons voice and the Yes name oddly enough was the commerical push intially.

[rmig68]

I sell out everyday I come to work...

[rmig68]

MTV era looks? haha, I nver hold that against him, he was a natural.

What was an eye sore was seeing Chris, Jon and Tony go blondish..How bout the makeup on Chris for the "it can Happen" video, yeash, he lloked like some long lost Aunt.....now that was rough. Chris looked pretty cool during the Big G tour though.

;)

There were certainly some MTV growing pains. I don't think Tony dyed his hair blonde. If anything it was natural silver, wasn't it?

Trevor remarked how he (Trevor) looked like Freddie Mercury with the eyeshadow on "It Can Happen"

Hell, looking back I'm sure they have very little regrets.

...by the way, a few years later, Trevor's mullet on "Love Will Find a Way" was unforgivable.

Talk about "creative differences." I think Jon's stylist (although I loved the indian warpaint on the BG tour) and Trevor's stylist probably could never work again after that, and still refuse to till this day, even though many would like to see those stylists return for a reunion video :-)

[90125yes]

i would certainly go back in time

the 90125 lienup today ahead of all this nostaLic tribute lead singer stuff

[kirklott]

Does anyone considder this to be a sell out album at all? Meaning do you people think Yes changed there style on this album just to have commercial hits? I remember what Trevor said in Yesyears. He was determined to get these songs out and there's only two ways to do music your way and the wrong way. To me it sounds like he was writing what came inside of him and not trying to score a hit. I mean everyone says 90125 is so comemrcial, but when they say that do they mean commercial like corporate or commercial because it's there biggest selling album. I don't think this is a sell out album. I think the only time they might have sold out if at all was the Union album which seemed more of a corporate decision instead of a band decision.

Not the most logical of questions.

Bear in mind that when this album was recorded, it wasn't Yes. It was Cinema. And how could a debut album be a sell-out?