Yes West/Trooper Crap anyone?

[Awaken1976]

I think the whole one vs. the other is rediculous. ALL lineups have been at least tolerable if not super dooper IMHO. Why can't we all just get along? lol...seriously though? Why not? Ever hear of common ground?

[Ktrek]

One of the things that makes me a YES fan is the variety. The variety is there because of all the different people who have contributed to YES over the years and yet YES was able to still keep an identifiable YESness. Having such variety gives me something of YES to listen to no matter what mood I'm in. Somedays I love cranking up the Rabin year albums and other days I like the classic stuff and at other times I like the newer albums and sometimes theor various solo endeavors. I almost don't have time for other music with all the albums that there are.

Kevin

[yesyadda]

I never understood the differentiation or the rift. For me it's always been a one on one relationship with the music (and the band members). It's there, I'm here (today and tomorrow ;))
There's stuff I like that others don't and visa versa. Ain't that true with most music?

[Jackaranda]

Unfortunately there a lot of "Troopers" that can't stand Yes West. A few REALLY can't stand Rabin. They say he never belonged in Yes. You won't see nearly as many people who love the Yes West material so dead set against the Trooper material.

It's all Yes.

I love Talk as much as Yessongs, and I first heard Yessongs in 1975 and it changed my whole perception of music. I love Drama also. I'll even put OYE ahead of most other music non Yes.

I dunno. I've never understood it.

[neilius]

I love all their music.

[yarstruly]

I am another UniversalYESt

[Timmo]

There are also a few people that prefer the YesWest material.

Our fearless leader Tim is a HUGE Rabin fan, for example.

Yet they don't diss Trooper Yes like some of the Troopers diss YesWest.

[Jackaranda]

A sure way to get 'em fired up over at AGP is to post a pro-Rabin thread. They have some of the most passionate "Trooper music is the ONLY Yes music" people I've ever seen.

[yarstruly]

How did this become a bash AGP thread? However, your statement is only partially true. There are a number of people there who like both, myself included.

[cinderella]

Unfortunately there a lot of "Troopers" that can't stand Yes West. You won't see nearly as many people who love the Yes West material so dead set against the Trooper material.


That's right! I prefer Yes West material, but I like the other stuff too. I always say I'm a Generator with a little Trooper on the side.

I worship at the foot of Trevor Rabin, and no member of Yes will ever measure up to him as far as I'm concerned.
http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Cinderella528/Were_Not_Worthy_Girl.gif


A few REALLY can't stand Rabin. They say he never belonged in Yes.


Trevor didn't join Yes.....he joined Cinema!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Cinderella528/Goodies/Trevor.gif

[Sheerah]

Jack wasn't bashing AGP. As Jack is a rabid Rabin fan, he was merely relaying some opposition he has encountered as a strong YesWest fan. Of course, I think he has received that here as well. :D

Anyhow, I do have my preferences on Trooper vs. West, but frankly, I love it all! I really do.

Like you Scott, I am a UniversalYESt, and proud of it!

[Bugeyes]

We must like things differently. Grandma told me that's why the world goes 'round.

[Jackaranda]

How did this become a bash AGP thread? However, your statement is only partially true. There are a number of people there who like both, myself included.



No No NO!!!! I'm not bashing them!! It was a joke!!!

[yarstruly]

Ok :)

[Bugeyes]

A sure way to get 'em fired up over at AGP is to post a pro-Rabin thread. They have some of the most passionate "Trooper music is the ONLY Yes music" people I've ever seen.Jack, you fired 'em up again. Good job? :shrug:














:lmao:

[Bugeyes]

Or do you just fire 'em up where ever you go, Jack?

[Jackaranda]

I dunno Peg. I seem to be firing everyone up lately.

[The Whale]

I think that its safe to say diffrent strokes for diffrent folks! or in my case lots of strokes for every one! Cause its all GOOOODD!!

[frosted]

I think that its safe to say diffrent strokes for diffrent folks! or in my case lots of strokes for every one! Cause its all GOOOODD!!


Yep! No such thing as a bad stroke!

[rememberer]

Unfortunately there a lot of "Troopers" that can't stand Yes West. A few REALLY can't stand Rabin. They say he never belonged in Yes.

I wouldn't go that far, lol. I think Trevor had a rather different vision even when it became clear they were sailing under the Yes moniker and not Cinema. But who can blame him? I'd have wanted Yes with Rabin to do more of that awful stuff that turned them into dinosaurs. Relayer Seven, that's the ticket. And they'd probably all be employed by their fathers, nailing on shingles now, if I'd had my way. Or window washing. ;-)

The neat thing is that even for being something I think is "un-Yes-like," it's mostly good listening, and it's enduring. I must have long ago tied one on and threw Foreigner lps off the roof or something, and I can't really say as I miss them any, or a zillion other "commercial" bands whose names I can't even remember now. 90125 on the other hand, I may put on again any minute, or Union - I've played the heck out of that too, and still going.

Probably doesn't sound quite flattering to say that if I have to hear "that junk" it might as well be Yes, but that is a high compliment for what it's worth, and it's even more pronounced exploring some of the solo work. A lot of that seems to differ from the "Yes vision" (whatever that means exactly) but it's nice that the different bases that are covered. If I'm in a "new agey" mood, I'll likely put on Olias or Angels Embrace; if I'm in a "coffee house" mood, chances are I can find something acoustic by Steve that suits me to sip the magic brown water to, and so on. Kind of like the Beatles philosophy,
"we have candy for the kiddies and cabbages for mum & pop" or whatever the quote is exactly.

Maybe that's kind of interesting, because I don't think I ever got so uptight about not every Beatles song being like "Helter Skelter" as I've been known to get about not every Yes song being like "Sound Chaser" or "Gates". Hmmm.

I think it's a lot more fun trying to make peace with it all instead of having big hairy debates whether apples or oranges are more better, even if I have my stodgy old Trooper preferences. Really some great moments in all of it.

[Sheerah]

I think that its safe to say diffrent strokes for diffrent folks! or in my case lots of strokes for every one! Cause its all GOOOODD!!

I'm all for strokes!

[ToBeOver]

I think the whole one vs. the other is rediculous. ALL lineups have been at least tolerable if not super dooper IMHO. Why can't we all just get along? lol...seriously though? Why not? Ever hear of common ground?

Yes, I have heard of common ground. It was a song done by Midnight Oil and I believe Neil Diamond also did a song called Common Ground. :dog:
Sorry, couldn't help myself!

I will have to remove myself from your phrase, "at least tolerable." There was a Yes line-up that I didn't particularly like, but you will never hear it from my mouth nor will you ever hear me mention it in this forum. I just choose to stay away from the topics that include that era of their music.

I just wanted to razz ya on the common ground question! :lmao:

:keyboard:

[umgekehrt]

Troopers are lame.
Really, they suck balls.
Only YesWholes rule!

[True Believer]

Technically I'm a Trooper - been into Yes since 1973 - but am definitely at heart a YesWhole.

[cinderella]

I'm a Genatrooper. :D

[Yes_Fan_4_Life26]

I'm a TrooGenether

(TrooperGeneratorPanther)

[cinderella]

I'm a TrooGenether

(TrooperGeneratorPanther)

hee-hee!

[Awaken1976]

At risk of sounding stupid, what is "AGP"?

[Awaken1976]

Genatrooper? I like that. :)

[Awaken1976]

And Universal Yesist. That's a good one too. :)

[flep]

At risk of sounding stupid, what is "AGP"?

All Good People (Another yesfan site)

Back on Topic I lurve it all!!!!!

[yesrolfer]

I am a unitaritan unversalist yes fan! :theband:

Troopers rule,
Give me that most of the time. :headset:

I am a Trooper deep in my heart! :hearts:

[Awaken1976]

Trooper pooper. It's ALL good dude.

[Albedo]

I prefer the Trooper classics, but I loved the live YesWest concerts. It's all good one way or another.

[nitrus]

Although I really like the Trooper stuff, I somehow prefer the YesWest era. I simply love Trevor Rabin, his work with Yes, his solo albums and his soundtracks...!

But generally I'm more into the members' solo works. I can enjoy Jon's/Rick's/Trevor's solo albums much more than Yes itself. Is there any word for it? A Solist?

[Max Webster]

One thing that might help is to remember that Yes isn't unique in having separate camps of fans.

There are clearly those who draw a line in the sand with certain eras of Genesis, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Marillion, Van Halen, etc.

And in most of these cases, I feel the lines tend to be drawn on easily-identifiable and overly-simplistic terms (Gabriel yes/Collins no; Howe yes/Rabin no; Ozzy yes/...).

It's reasonable to have preferences that are drawn from these lines. I certainly have them myself.
But I tend to question the depth of those on/off switch opinions which suggest the band clicked from being great to having absolutely no merit at all.

[Roan's Lady]

One thing that might help is to remember that Yes isn't unique in having separate camps of fans.

There are clearly those who draw a line in the sand with certain eras of Genesis, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Marillion, Van Halen, etc.

And in most of these cases, I feel the lines tend to be drawn on easily-identifiable and overly-simplistic terms (Gabriel yes/Collins no; Howe yes/Rabin no; Ozzy yes/...).

It's reasonable to have preferences that are drawn from these lines. I certainly have them myself.
But I tend to question the depth of those on/off switch opinions which suggest the band clicked from being great to having absolutely no merit at all.

I agree. And I figure that if the music grabs me, then something good is going on, regardless of who is making it. My preference for the 70s period is not borne out of my knowledge of any player's "superior" technique or style...it's just that this is the music that impresses me the most, without a delve into heavy analysis of their playing. I have yet to hear a Yes album since Drama that does the same, although I am (and have always been) open to this possibility. There have been songs since then that I've enjoyed, but not with the same intensity of their earlier work. On the other side of the coin, there is sometimes this mentality that since they are Yes, everything they do is great. What sort of discerning, attentive ear has one got with that opinion?

[mpoppe]

I'd never heard of these phrases until I saw them on this site.Reminds me of Republicans and Democrats.I'm neither.Yes is Yes no matter what lineup and all of it is very good and mean't to be for the time.

[Steve St Thomas]

I'm a Yeswest Loyalist, but will standby and support just about everything Yes did up until 1994. I think I've made enough comments about which ''Products'' don't do as much for me as it may some others. I don't differentiate between Relayer and 90125, or Drama and Time and a Word. To me that's all good. I swear by those albums. There's more in that list of course. I have their entire back catalogue if one is wondering, and a lot of it gets played quite frequently. Anything after 1994, very rarely if at all. But I thin kI've stated my reasons elsewhere.

I loved those Ozzy /or, Gabriel/Collins arguments though. I took part and had tons of explanations at the time for them! I followed Ozzy rather than continue on with Ronnie James Dio and Black Sabbath. Why? Because Ozzy with Black Sabbath had some amazing lyrics to listen to. Because they were about 10 years ahead of the times. Because people still sound like them in 1975, now. When Dio joined, he had a better voice, more power, but he kept singing about Dragons, and Wheels, and Mountains, and Rainbows. And quite honestly made Black Sabbath sound like some kind of hokey Friday the 13th meets King Arthur 'Scary', wherein I found them lyrically with Ozzy to be quite ''Not all that Evil to begin with'' and wondering how they got such an image in the first place. Their lyrics are fascinating. They indoctrinated Vedic concepts of Heaven and Hell for starters! (There is no ''place'' Heaven and Hell for Buddhists and Hindus, they are states of being while you are here on the Material plane.) With Dio they were talking about basic bull----.

Gabriel - Collins? Well, I followed Gabriel. But I bought Genesis albums all the way up until they released Invisible Touch. Then I kinda stopped. I've listened to that album since, and for one, that is an amazingly recorded album. WOW. That album is one of the best recorded albums I've ever heard. And you know what? The songs aren't bad either! Great melodies. But I think around that time I was enjoying Mike & The Mechanics a bit more than Genesis. Calling All Stations wasn't bad at all, to ttell you the truth. think they should have continued on with Ray. O well.

[Timmo]

Home By the Sea (parts one and two) was a great Genesis song. I fell in love with Genesis on their first post-PG album, "A Trick of the Tail," so I didn't have the "baggage" that kept me from enjoying Yes for years after "Drama."

And LOVE the Keystudio album. I don't think Yes was done by 1994. I also love The Ladder.

[TNyesfan]

It'd be fun to have Yes west vs Trooper volleyball or tug of war at one of the get togethers. I can swing either way.

[Awaken1976]

On the other side of the coin, there is sometimes this mentality that since they are Yes, everything they do is great. What sort of discerning, attentive ear has one got with that opinion?

For me it's an emotional attachment. It's not about having a discerning, attentive ear necessarily. Though I am a diehard fan of Yes, I don't think that everything they've done is flawless.....but, I enjoy it ALL none the less. And I do have a discerning, attentive ear for music, or I would be listening to pop radio all the time, thank you very much!

[Roan's Lady]

Though I am a diehard fan of Yes, I don't think that everything they've done is flawless.....but, I enjoy it ALL none the less.

OK, what constitutes "flaws" to you? And tell me why you enjoy the Yes music that has them? I am genuinely curious to know.

[Awaken1976]

OK, what constitutes "flaws" to you? And tell me why you enjoy the Yes music that has them? I am genuinely curious to know.

Union was a flaw in that the whole dang thing was so disjointed and just bad timing for the band. Yet there's not one song I dislike on there.

[Roan's Lady]

Union was a flaw in that the whole dang thing was so disjointed and just bad timing for the band. Yet there's not one song I dislike on there.
Disjointed, but with purpose, then! Ahh, I see now...;)

[Awaken1976]

I doubt we'll see anything in the future as good as Rabin's stuff much less classic Yes.

[expojeff]

I am actually in the process of revaluating the Talk album tour, having received a copy of a live show from Chile that tour. The band was pretty tight too but were getting hit from people like myself who wanted to see the Union line-up (or at least part of it) stay in tact for a new album. Does anyone know anything about the contract that made Trevor the producer of Talk for Victory records? That would be pretty revealing I think. I remember Steve saying there wasn't any contract he couldn't get out of. I still believe if Rick had played on Talk rather than Tony, that the album would have come out much stronger since Trevor and Rick had a strong respect and interplay.

Jeff

[Jackaranda]

I can swing either way.


I suspected as much. ;)

[Bugeyes]

Jack! :lmao:

(D'oh! Sorry Trudy, but I wanted to say it too! It was such an easy set-up. But I thought it was too easy of a cheap shot.)

[JL]

Trevor didn't join Yes.....he joined Cinema!!

It's a Twilight Zone moment to say the least when one is posting to give Trevor MORE credit than Cindy did in a post, but here goes:

Trevor didn't join Cinema, he was the creative catalyst for Cinema, and arguably it's leader.

I'm primarily what gets referred to as a Trooper.

My first time seeing Yes was on the Big Generator tour. While I do remember thinking that I wished I was hearing Steve on AYAI and YIND, I was also blown away by Trevor on Shoot High Aim Low and was amazed at how much he was feeling Solly's Beard. Whether he's "good" or not is subjective, but I'm certainly moved by his music. What is undeniable is that Chris, Jon and Alan do not throw in with you if you suck.

Big Generator is, IMHO, in a tie with Tormato for most underrated and criminally underappreciated Yes album.

Most CDs with the Yes name attached contain good or great music, including the three YW lineup albums.

Let's also not forget, DRAMA RULES!!!!!

[Awaken1976]

Big Generator is, IMHO, in a tie with Tormato for most underrated and criminally underappreciated Yes album.


I totally agree. I don't know what it is that turns people off to it. Go figure? I don't think many (if any) Rabin fans will say it was a horrible album. So maybe it's just the Rabin haters who are tipping the polling scales.

[yesrolfer]

I totally agree. I don't know what it is that turns people off to it. Go figure? I don't think many (if any) Rabin fans will say it was a horrible album. So maybe it's just the Rabin haters who are tipping the polling scales.

I am not a Rabin hater, nor do I love the guy!
IMO BG is a good album, Tormato not so hot!
I listen to them both every 3 years!

[Awaken1976]

I still believe if Rick had played on Talk rather than Tony, that the album would have come out much stronger since Trevor and Rick had a strong respect and interplay.
Jeff

Jeff. I think (I know actually) that there were some strange things going on with Tony since 90125. I had for a time aquired one of the original copies of the 90125 contract and was puzzled that Tony's name wasn't included in the signatures. I did a little research and found that Tony was almost left out in the cold due to Trevor and the guy's existing relationship with another keyboardist who had never been in a Yes lineup before (I'm sorry I can't remember the guy's name). Well, for whatever reason, the other guy either jumped ship or was thrown overboard; which I don't know. You can even see this other keyboardist in one of the 90125 music videos (don't remember which song, but, it was set out in the desert with the band sitting around a camp fire)! They tried to edit him out but, couldn't erase all traces of him for one reason or another. So....I guess I'm saying that there might be some bad blood mixed in there with Kaye for some reason. I also hear that Tony was/is a heavy drinker and I don't think any of the other guys were during the Rabin era. So maybe that caused some difficulties too. A lot of this is pure speculation but, I thought that if I shared this, that it might add a piece to the puzzle of why Rick didn't play on Talk since he and Trevor seemed so buddy buddy. Take it or leave it. lol....just the musings of a psycho, 20 year old, Yes fan. :evil2: lol....

[Trooper Jim]

All I say is
Cha Cha Cha, CHA CHA!
Cha Cha Cha, CHA CHA!
Long live hard-core prog!

[BlueEagle]

I did a little research and found that Tony was almost left out in the cold due to Trevor and the guy's existing relationship with another keyboardist who had never been in a Yes lineup before (I'm sorry I can't remember the guy's name). Well, for whatever reason, the other guy either jumped ship or was thrown overboard; which I don't know. You can even see this other keyboardist in one of the 90125 music videos (don't remember which song, but, it was set out in the desert with the band sitting around a camp fire)! They tried to edit him out but, couldn't erase all traces of him for one reason or another.
I never heard anything about the "other keyboardist" unless you are refering to Casey Young who is refered to as Tony's "keyboard tech" and played synths under the stage. The video you mentioned is LOVE WILL FIND A WAY. I'll have to look at this vid and see if I can see the mystery keyboardist. ;)

[cinderella]

I did a little research and found that Tony was almost left out in the cold due to Trevor and the guy's existing relationship with another keyboardist who had never been in a Yes lineup before (I'm sorry I can't remember the guy's name). Well, for whatever reason, the other guy either jumped ship or was thrown overboard; which I don't know. You can even see this other keyboardist in one of the 90125 music videos (don't remember which song, but, it was set out in the desert with the band sitting around a camp fire)!

Well it's sounds like you're talking about Eddie Jobson who played keyboards in the Owner Of A Lonely Heart video and was edited out. There's only one very fast teeny tiny shot of him at the very beginning. He never joined the band.

Tony Kaye was most definitely in the Love Will Find A Way video.

[The Whale]

Big Generator is, IMHO, in a tie with Tormato for most underrated and criminally underappreciated Yes album.



Ok confession time. while I'll agree with Tormato (after all I am the whale!) but the only yes album I'v never heard is Big Generator.

eeeeekkkk!!!????? don't kill the whale I'v heard some of the stuff on weeds just never bought the CD.

[Scooty]

Let's also not forget, DRAMA RULES!!!!!


Woohooo!!

Damn Straight!!

Isn't it somewhere written that their are also a group of fans called "Panthers"...based on the fact that they think Drama was and is the best Yes album??

Im not a Panther...maybe a kitty.

Drama is in my top 5!

[JL]

Woohooo!!

Damn Straight!!

Isn't it somewhere written that their are also a group of fans called "Panthers"...based on the fact that they think Drama was and is the best Yes album??

Im not a Panther...maybe a kitty.

Drama is in my top 5!

If there is such a creature in YesFandom as a panther, Scooty is a good deal closer to panther than mere kitty.

I'd refer to myself as a Trooping Panther, or a Panthing Trooper. What I can say is that Drama is a monumental hard prog achievement.

On much of Drama, especially Machine Messiah, you get the impression that the scrawny guitar player to whom you wish to feed a steak and introduce to a set of weights might actually be able to kick your ass.

[Awaken1976]

Ok confession time. while I'll agree with Tormato (after all I am the whale!) but the only yes album I'v never heard is Big Generator.
eeeeekkkk!!!?????

If you like Trevor's stuff, you should definately get Big Generator. It's highly underrated.

[Sheerah]

I'd refer to myself as a Trooping Panther, or a Panthing Trooper. What I can say is that Drama is a monumental hard prog achievement.



I've heard that you are a panting Trooper.

[cinderella]

I've heard that you are a panting Trooper.

Panting Troopers? Sounds interesting. I think I know a few. ;)

[Timmo]

I just wish the lyrics and keys on Drama were up there with the AMAZING rhythm section and guitar.

I'm a Trooper, I guess. I appreciate and respect the Trevor-era Yes, it just doesn't float my boat like the 70s stuff and the later stuff like Keys.

You may now lash me Cindy.

[cinderella]

You may now lash me Cindy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Cinderella528/N99%20Smileys/maikwhip.gif

Well Tim, you do appreciate the Trevor era so I'll just give you one.

[Hill St.]

Keep that whip out Cindy.I'm a Trooper to the core.I also am selective on YesWest.

[luckeydoug1]

YesWest is what brought me in to the fold. I do, indeed, enjoy Yes music from most eras, but YesWest is what gets my blood pumping!