It's 1990 and you pick the real Yes. [Archive]

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YesNY

05-08-2002, 01:10 AM

I am about a dozen years late with this poll question, but there was no internet at that time.

THE QUESTION:

It is circa 1990, and it is entirely up to you who gets the right to the Yes name. Who would you then have given the rights to the Yes name: Yes West (Squire/Rabin/White/Kaye) or Yes Trooper (Anderson/Bruford/Wakeman/Howe)?

Sorry, a "Union" album is not an option for this question.

05-08-2002, 08:16 AM

He never gave up.

He never stomped off and quit when he didn't get his way.

He was unafraid to venture into new territory.

He never rested on Yes's laurels, never retreated into the past.

He was always focused on musical progress.

He never built himself up at the expense of other members.

He expressed the spirit of Yes in actions for the band, rather than high-sounding words.

He is The Caretaker, the keeper of the flame.

Rabin105

05-08-2002, 10:11 AM

Quantum i couldn't agree with you more he is yes and alan also has never left when the going went tough he is one of the reasons yes is still around today he could have left squire in the dust in 1980 like the other 3 member but instead he stayed with him and realeased run with the fox (I still don't care what it says or who it was released by it has all the qualities of a great yes song and sounds like yes.) Plus kaye ties with wakeman as greatest yes keyboardest (with moraz and downes a close 2nd and brislin 3rd the reason why he is third has nothing to do with playing it has to do with not being on an ablum and last by a mile and a half Igor khorchev hate his version of rythem of love was he trying to sound bad) so you put those three classic yes members with an equally classic yes guitarest trevor rabin and Billy sherwood on Lead vocals you have the definitive yes lineup of 1990

mrgone3

05-08-2002, 10:35 AM

I don't know what project was underway over at Yes west.But I have the results of the Troopers.I know alot of YES fans don't consider it to be YES!But if you listen it is a rather decent YES album.And RICK has some super keyboard work on it.I saw the live show.I know it needed the Squire juice very badly.Chris is YES for all purposes.He is the soul of the band.He is the founder of YES.Bill Bruford has his fingers in too many pies to stay with it.Steve wanted to try with ASIA.I guess he knew that was a mistake.Alan is a BIG YES fan!I think he's held the band together at the bleekest times.Jon wanted to try some other projects.I guess that's cool.I like when he teamed up with Vangelis and Kitaro.And I suppose he and Chris had a falling out when they were forming what became ABWH.Rick also had his projects to work on.But he always seems to shine brightest with this band.And this summer WE can see WAWHS.I think it is better just to SAY YES! .JOE :band::keyboard::angel:

Alysoun

05-08-2002, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by Quantum
He never gave up.
He never stomped off and quit when he didn't get his way.
He was unafraid to venture into new territory.
He never rested on Yes's laurels, never retreated into the past.
He was always focused on musical progress.
He never built himself up at the expense of other members.
He expressed the spirit of Yes in actions for the band, rather than high-sounding words.
He is The Caretaker, the keeper of the flame.

I have to agree with you Quantum.
Absolutely.

Perhaps, it is the primary reason that he has only ever had the time to release one
brilliant, incredible solo album where Jon, Steve, Rick have done myriads of them.
Only Alan has made that one as well. Too busy with Yes related stuff.

Yes without Squire is a shadow of itself (Levin is a great bass player but he doesn't have that angular thing, his is a very warm sound) -- Yes without Jon is also a shadow of itself (Horn was just not up to the task and Jon's voice is unique and instantly recognizable, it can never truly belong to anyone else).

Soul and Heart. I don't want to see an incarnation of Yes without them. Alan must be given credit as well -- he is the glue.

All I can say is thank the gods that everyone made up more or less.

Allison

Jackaranda

05-08-2002, 04:45 PM

Yes west gets it because it's legally theirs. Nobody could steal that from them, although they did anyway.

nightliner

05-09-2002, 06:19 PM

This is a tough call, but I have to give the nod to Yeswest. Chris has always been there. They continued the name when Jon decided he didn't want to "play" anymore, and created good music. So Yes goes where Chris goes. When Chris leaves, Yes leaves.

YesNY

05-10-2002, 01:15 AM

Because the Yeswest 1990 lineup was just a modified version of the personnel of the immediate preceeding album (Big Generator), and was merely a natural evolutionary step in the makeup of a group under contract to Atlantic Records, I believe they were more entitled to the Yes name. YesTroopper on the other hand featured only one member from the immediate previous record to feature the Yes name.

To further illustrate this logic, if Chris and Alan were to leave the present lineup (which now features Rick) and reunited with Tony and Trevor Rabin who have signed with another label, while Bill rejoins Jon, Rick and Steve, then the Yes Tropper crew would be the rightful Yes in 2002. It all has to do with the principle of "if you leave it* you lose it".

05-10-2002, 07:51 AM

It has always baffled me when I hear the rationale that a Yes member can quit the band and then it can be the replacement member's fault that the band is not the same, or not as good as it was before ...

In the real world, in any analogous situation, I can't imagine anyone using such logic ...

Rabin105

05-12-2002, 09:46 AM

I agree

RobAdams

05-15-2002, 06:55 AM

The name should follow Chris as the only founding member to be on every YES album. I think if there were a YES album missing Chris Squire, the order of the universe would go out of whack.

ycantibu

05-15-2002, 09:23 PM

YesWest refers to the fact that most of the band were based in LA at the time whilst YesEast was based in England, for the most part.

Neverthirst

05-15-2002, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by illusion
And this going going to sound stupid, but why are Yeswest called Yeswest? :confused: :bash:

Another fun question is what is Buggles-Yes and why is it called that ...

YesNY

05-18-2002, 01:28 PM

I understand Buggles-Yes, though I've never heard that exact term used before. Two former members of the Buggles in Yes for the Drama album. What I did't understand is why some people call it Panther-Yes until I looked at it's cover online (l lost the cassette case cover long time ago--still have got update to CD on this one). I would have called it Iceberg Yes. Maybe we should let Mr. Dean decide this one. I suppose Drama-Yes is most readily understood.

05-18-2002, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by YesNY
I suppose Drama-Yes is most readily understood.

Funny YesNY! True too!

PeterCologne

05-19-2002, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by YesNY
Maybe we should let Mr. Dean decide this one.

I always understood the drama cover as an ironic statement to the situation then. Three panters - Chris, Alan and Steve - are hunting two birds - Jon and Rick. As we know that Chris, Alan and Steve were very unsatisfied with Jons songs then (with Ricks contributions in Tormato too?) and almost forced Jon out of the band, it makes sense. They wanted to rock then and Jon and Rick were not willed to do so at this point.

And yes, I voted too for Yes-West. Chris is the one, who always takes care, that Yes moves on in sound and arrangements and overall-tone and keeps it's weirdness. I think, the ABWH-album - as nice as some tracks are - is the best example, what makes the difference between an album with and without Chris. ABWH to me lacks the magic of a real Yes-album (all this is discussed in the "Is ABWH real Yes?"-thread).

Greetings
Peter

YesNY

05-20-2002, 12:52 AM

The posts on this thread are near unaminous in supporting the proposition the YesWest was more entitled to the "Yes" name. Yet the results of the voting is extremely close. Makes me sort of wish somebody supporting the Yes Trooper side of the argument would engage the discussion. I am being sincere on this point, and would love to see if maybe I am missing something and can be swayed the other way. A little respectful dissention (I tried to add a pinch of that to the threads on this board celebrating ABWH) adds some spice to the proceedings and, contrary to the feelings of some of my fellow Yes-noids, I think a good Yes West-Yes Trooper debate is healthy. We are all Yes fans at the end of the day, so passion about their music should be nothing to be shy about.

Neverthirst

05-20-2002, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by YesNY
... I think a good Yes West-Yes Trooper debate is healthy. We are all Yes fans at the end of the day, so passion about their music should be nothing to be shy about.

well said.

PeterCologne

05-20-2002, 06:22 PM

... isn't it like this: every Yes-West-Fan is a Trooper too, but some of the Troopers are not so much orientated to the West. Although I would count myself, to what is called Yes-West, I started to love this band in 1973, ten years and five albums before 90125 came out. So the Steve-Howe-Yes is the root of all fascination in me. I just learned to admire the Trevor-Rabin-Yes as equally great.

Even if there are much Yes-West-Followers, who came to Yes after 1983, I think there is no one, who has not fallen in love with Tales, Relayer or CTTE or ... too.

So, all of us so called Yes-West-Fans are like the black-sheeps of the big one and only Yes-family.

Ok, I could stop here. But there is another thought. Am I not just a Yes-Fan?! Yes, I am. As much as I love the West-Trooper-Debate, isn't it all just Yes-music in the end? Yes, it is, I mean. And the borders are very liquid.

Some Troopers don't accept BG, but like Talk, or the other way round, some Yes-West-people don't like Wakeman so much, but others admire him. It's all relative in the end, a nice chaos, created by the best band in the world: Yes. Lets be thankful to have them, East, West, North, South, middlearth, outer-space... , wherever.

... and hey, what about Survival-Yes, the Early-Yes-Fans, who do not forget the great Peter Banks.

Greetings
Peter

gt76yesman

05-25-2002, 09:26 PM

Without Anderson singing, it just isn't YES to me. Drama had some great music but the vocals were just not there, nor did they have that other-worldly sound!

Howe, Bruford, Wakeman - WOW what a line up!

Squire and White make it closer than it should be. Chris is the amn in the band. I like Tony pretty well, but the vocals just don't sound YES, and Rabin is a different style, more flash less substance. I saw it glaring at me in Union. Steve sat back and rocked, Rabin pranced around and made rockstar motions, but just wasn't as good.

Of course, this is just MHO.

gt76yesman

05-25-2002, 09:36 PM

I am a YES Trooper, but I would love to add Chris to the Troopers. Rabin made one great YES album, 90125, then proceeded to distroy what was Yes music. Almost paralleled the demise of Genesis, where they went another direction and distroyed the name. Now people say PG-Genesis or PC-Genesis. I had some years I wondered if I would want to see Yes with Rabin. I kept going back because of Jon, Chris and Alan and the fact that live they keep playing the greats. Still when I heard Steve was returning I felt life had started to bloom again, and the Yes sound has risen again.

The last two tours (Masterworks and Symphonic) were the best, even better in some ways than Union and prior to Union I had to go back to 90125 tour for classic shows.

Once again, thanks for reading a Troopers feelings.

jimmygtr

07-02-2004, 01:41 PM

Yes West (Squire/Rabin/White/Kaye) - this was arguably and probably was Yes.
Yes Trooper (Anderson/Bruford/Wakeman/Howe) - this (depsite Mr. Squire's absence) sounded a whole more like Yes IMHO).

cinderella

07-15-2004, 04:55 PM

Yes West (Squire/Rabin/White/Kaye)

bataisflow

07-15-2004, 05:19 PM

ABWH sounded like Yes and performed like Yes, so I gave my nod to them. Saw both lineups no comparison IMHO.

Sonoacustico

09-08-2004, 05:25 PM

This thread has been here longer than i have and i just discovered it! :D
I dont think I could live without any of the two Yes versions, and I agree about Chris having the right to keep the name.
What I don't agree about, is this:

Q, Rabin 105 and Mrgone seem to agree about the fact of Chris and Alan never quitting yes and that, and it's understandable to think that Geoff, Steve and Trevor H. left having the Run with the Fox thing. However, evidence proves that's wrong:
According to Dave Gallant's official Asia biography book "The Heat Goes On", what happened was that immediatly after the drama tour Trevor Horn left. after that, Chris and Alan left together, and Downes and Howe were the only ones left. In an Interview with the Yes fanzine "Relayer", Steve Howe said:

"Come the beginning of 1981, nobody was really sure of the destiny of Yes. We had a meeting and the egg sort of cracked on the floor and it ended up that really only Geoff and I were sitting there saying 'Well, I think I'm still in yes. I haven't left. I haven't been fired or axed by anybody' So that's what happened. Geoff and I sort of felt 'Well, can we carry on as Yes?' and I thought 'God, i've been doing this for a long time, no, Geoff, you do the Buggles, and I'm going to take a short break'. But within a couple of weeks I'd realized we couldn't resurrect this, we couldn't piece this back together. It's really cracked wide open. So we started on the next project"

Although I still believe squire had the right to keep the Yes name, i believe this is a point in favor to ABWH ;)

greetings

Claudio

Whitefish

08-25-2005, 06:04 AM

Yes West without a doubt.

It was the other guys who left Yes. Chris and Alan stood their ground. It was arrogant of Jon to think Chris would leave Yes and join ABWH.

08-25-2005, 06:28 AM

According to Dave Gallant's official Asia biography book "The Heat Goes On", what happened was that immediatly after the drama tour Trevor Horn left. after that, Chris and Alan left together, and Downes and Howe were the only ones left. In an Interview with the Yes fanzine "Relayer", Steve Howe said:

"Come the beginning of 1981, nobody was really sure of the destiny of Yes. We had a meeting and the egg sort of cracked on the floor and it ended up that really only Geoff and I were sitting there saying 'Well, I think I'm still in yes. I haven't left. I haven't been fired or axed by anybody' So that's what happened. Geoff and I sort of felt 'Well, can we carry on as Yes?' and I thought 'God, i've been doing this for a long time, no, Geoff, you do the Buggles, and I'm going to take a short break'. But within a couple of weeks I'd realized we couldn't resurrect this, we couldn't piece this back together. It's really cracked wide open. So we started on the next project"

Just to repeat and re-emphasize.

Whitefish

08-25-2005, 06:49 AM

I am talking about Yes since its reformation in 1983. Not about 1980-81. When Yes reformed in 1982-83 (orginally as Cinema) it was Rabin, Squire, White, Kaye, then Anderson. Or maybe Kaye after Anderson. But in any case, when ABWH formed, Anderson had clearly left Yes leaving Squire, White, Rabin and Kaye on their own.

Rabin105

08-30-2005, 10:10 AM

Yes West without a doubt.

It was the other guys who left Yes. Chris and Alan stood their ground. It was arrogant of Jon to think Chris would leave Yes and join ABWH.
I agree 100% yeswest without a doubt here's a question i wonder wat a yes of Rabin squire Kaye White and Roger Hodgson (vocals) would of sounded like

Steve St Thomas

08-30-2005, 10:33 AM

Old poll, new voter.

Q pretty much stated my feelings about it, 3 years ago. If Squire is involved, then I consider it Yes. I know that's blatant favouritism, but Q said it how I think it .. .. Not that I think one member should twist the balance like that. That's not exactly right. But I think it goes down to the 'respect' issue, and that Chris just soldiered on (with Alan). Whether this meant that it was going to go down the ''progressive'' route or whatever route it took, that's what I like about Squire. He just pursued it regardless of who it would offend, or who would stop buying it, or who would throw that Yes Brand item back at the retailer. He probably saw the treatment Trevor Horn received from fans, and said screw this! He must have! Because he turned right around, released a ''commercial'' album, but included Anderson just for that 'other' fanbase. Either he's ----ing smart, an amazing entrepreneur, or just too dumb to realise Drama in any other name means more Drama. Either way, he was smart enough to acquire the Yes name legally, and that's damn smart. So while others mess about arguing who should play guitar, or what Yes should be doing in the 20 minute range, he went to a lawyer and settled it outright. It doesn't matter what Yes does. I own the name. Smart guy.

And I can't see how this guy actually works with one person who is in constant negativity about one section of the band's career. It just doesn't include Trevor Rabin by name. It's a whole debacle about ''what is Yes'' and ''what is not''. Anderson falls into that camp with the whole ABWH/Union debacle. Obviously Squire (with White) and his risk taking ventures come damnation or blessing by the fans, sometimes proves quite lucrative and successful, and all I see from ABWH are two people who had ''control'' issues, who wanted to capitalise on that success their own way, writing AOR/MOR songs but with multiple title headings ala ''Standard Issue Yes'', and then completely going down a road (pre-Union) of being ''lost'' and ''directionless'' unless aided by those they derided or ran into legal entanglement with. Bruford I respect, Wakeman I respect, so when they call it Onion, or one of the worst things they were ever involved in or that has the Yes name to it, but still like the Squire/Rabin/White/Kaye tracks overall, you know, I just have to agree with Bruford & Wakeman.

I like all of Yes's output. Some albums more than others, but I do not have a preference of this player over that player. I think they're all pretty amazing musicians. And though my tastes lead toward the Squire - Rabin - White - Kaye side of the tale, you can play me Sound Chaser anyday and I'll completely smile with satisfaction and pleasure. You can play me South Side of the Sky and I'll be beaming. I love ''Classic Yes''. I honestly do. But when it comes down to the 80's and 90's, I think its one of the worst periods in the Yesstory, and what happened after 1995. But its not on the Rabin-Squire-White-Kaye side of things I'm seeing that from. They seemed pretty happy (despite what's been said in hindsight and fallouts, etc. behind the scenes. )

The Whale

08-30-2005, 10:46 AM

Think about the question. Its 1990. Yes just toured the world and had multipel hits in the past 7 years they had never been so populer then just 5 years agoe. Why wouldn't Chris, Alan, Trevor, and Tony (thats 4) get the rights to the name Yes when only Jon ( thats 1) wanted to change things? The answeres clear, not that I'm happy about that but it is what it is.

relayeire

08-30-2005, 04:49 PM

Scooty

08-31-2005, 03:01 AM

be honest... ABWH was the Yes we had all wanted for years when it came along! with Squire, preferably... I enjoyed the 80's Yes, and there's a lot of good music from then, but my feeling at the time was that SOME Yes was better than NO Yes... ABWH started the cycle of events that got Rick and Steve back into Yes-proper... I'm grateful for that...

http://blogdebogs.blogspot.com/ (http://blogdebogs.blogspot.com/)<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Fantastic post, and this has all of my sentiments exactly..
GAWD ONLY KNOWS..what ABWH could have been if Chris had been involved..but it was also the most "YESTHING" I could get in '89.

I just feel that the ABWH album has no bottom end..it lacks the crunch that Chris would have brought to the fold..and his voice...

Yes_Fan_4_Life26

08-31-2005, 03:18 AM

I'm afraid to say it's gotta be YesWest

I'm with the Keeper Of The Flame, Mr. Chris Squire

In my opinion, the core of the band is Chris Squire, Jon Anderson, Alan White.

But this for the rights to the name, right? So, yes, I will have to go with YesWest and musically too, to an extent that YesWest had more experince playing with Yes. I just calculated how much Yes playing experience each member had with...

YesWest: 53 years worth, combined members

YesTrooper: 38 years worth, combined members

Crazy eh??

But I also think that the ABWH was an excellent lineup, of course it'd been a kick a** line up with Chris in it....AH WELL!

gitsy

08-31-2005, 04:25 AM

West Yes because of that chap they had on bass.

Scooty

08-31-2005, 04:27 AM

Da' man
Da' Fish
Christopher Squire..

I agree..

Hill St.

09-02-2005, 09:48 PM

I voted and then started reading.Good points on both sides.So,I'm taking the chicken route...Union

yessongs72

09-02-2005, 10:43 PM

Trooper..........but you gotta add Sir Chris!

smatt

09-02-2005, 11:12 PM

How about neither........ ;)

YES indeed-ily

09-09-2005, 10:37 PM

on paper, without hearing a note of (new) material, I'd probably go with the Trooper lineup in a heartbeat....but in reality, Bruford's electronic drums grate on me. Alot. Combine that with the absence of Squire, and I'd ultimately have to vote YesWest for the rhythm section....

GoD57

09-10-2005, 08:01 AM