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new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-08-2005, 03:25 PM

Bill Bruford is my all tme fvrte. I hve alwys like him more as a drmmer than Aln Whte. Thatsnot to say the Anderson-Rabin-White-Squire lineup didn't have some better pieces than 70s Yes. Thats a big sore point in this forum; no, I feel they did have many better SONGS but I preferBrufordondrums just because he has the qualities I think Yes stands for: innovation, crispness, freshness, indentifyable ideas, and technique. I got into Bruford as a drummer duringABWH and across the board I like him better. A. White has always struck me as a drummer always playing on the beat, the eight, sixteeth, 32nd, or whatever, but always mechanistically on the beat. Maybethatdoesn'tmakesense to some ofyoubutifyou are into it you can tell Bruford is ALWAYS mixing up the count. This is what giveshim the 'earthiness' thats leaves you with this off-center feel to the drumming that supports the band yet allows the instrumetalists to drive the beat from time to time. Bruford's timing is nearly always on an upbeat or on a different count that the band. Like if the band is counting in 4/4 he might go into 6/8 for a few measures. Thatsasimplisticwayofdescribin itbutthatsthegistofit. Brufords drum is not a simple clock!! HIS is an instrument which accents ideas and raises the pitch of excitement when necessary. To me White is much more like a clock, and this is what makes him seem more Newtonian to me. Bruford is much more relativistic, or even quantum-mechanical in style. By far #1.

Talk about any album, we've got to get this thread going. I'm listening to Earthworks right now, does anyone else like this one?

Buglunch

09-09-2005, 02:26 AM

Saw them in Vancouver; also King Crimson 1983 at the Commodore, still have the Celto-Fripp poster.
Bill am the BEST.

Check out Flags; Music for Piano and Drums, both with Moraz.

Union tour makes three! Love dat guy. Haven't met him yet, waaaa.
:drmmr:

( why of all times is the smiley not working?? )

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-09-2005, 08:15 AM

I was listening to Big Generator this morning and realized something: There been lots of talk in this forum about Trevor. I don't think there's anything at all wrong with Trevor's stuff. The problem with the "Trevor-era songs" is that he is not a drummer and most of his songs were picked up 'as-is' by the band. White is great in terms of speed. Cinema stands high and proud for me. But there's not inventiveness on Big Generator. I think what some people unconsciously don't like about the Trevor songs is a lack of rhythmic creativity.

Tardis made a game thread about "man-made vs natural." That's how I view White vs. Bruford. White to me is like a hot engine, always revving up and cooling off. Bruford is more like a stream flowing that we barely notice, or a waterfall from time to time. If you are easily titillated you might compare White to implants and Bruford to real ones....hehe.

And also if you want you can compare solo output. How many projects has White had? Bruford? Cmon... I find Mr. Bruford to be very much a master of his craft.

Hot Bruford track of the day: We'll Let You Know

crotale2112

09-10-2005, 01:56 AM

I like both drummers.... but I think alan white is a better drummer than bill. Bill has very little emotion in his style. When I saw the ABWH shows I was very dissappointed with bills playing. Hearing close to the edge after hearing alan play it was a true let down even though bill plays it on close to the edge. Alan rocks the hell out of that song and when I saw bill play it, it seemed dull and drab.Maybe he was trying to sip tea while playing CTTE or something. I have some of bill's solo albums but once again being technical to me can be boring. To me alan is far more organic with his style yet can be just as technical as bill when need be. Bill seems very dry,synthetic and sterile with his style. Thank god bill was not on tales. Alan is a very powerful yet mysterious man, his atmosphere drips with colour and taboos.His drumming can be like a warm summer breezzz, pastoral and rolling and yet also be able to create the sounds of armageddon.
I kinda wish bill went back stage during awaken on the union tour. Awaken is no place for primped and proper synthetic drumming.
Anyway, I still like bill, I hope he is using real drums these days. Some of the old electric drums are still cool, I still love to use my simmons sds-8's because it's kinda like a mini moog for drummers.
Hello to all drumming yesheads out there!

:worm:

Buglunch

09-10-2005, 01:57 AM

Check out Gene Krupa in Ball of Fire ( 1941 ) - he does a drum solo on matchbook striker with two matches and strikes them at end with a crowd huddled over him.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-10-2005, 01:49 PM

Alan is a very powerful yet mysterious man, his atmosphere drips with colour and taboos.His drumming can be like a warm summer breezzz, pastoral and rolling and yet also be able to create the sounds of armageddon.
I kinda wish bill went back stage during awaken on the union tour. Awaken is no place for primped and proper synthetic drumming.

Hello to all drumming yesheads out there!

I don't like that worm...
Hey I'm sure Alan is great. (Waves to the folks in the Alan White thread...)

I still say he plays the down beat and what he lacks in subtlety he makes up for with force and speed...

Canonsong

09-10-2005, 02:24 PM

Alan's a great drummer, no doubt, but Bill is a little greater drummer and more importantly a little greater musician..at least to my to my ears.
Mr Bruford's someone, who always pushed the boundaries of music and never wanted to just tow the line, always exploring, always creating, and always playing with new people, which to me, is a sign of a greater musical health and curiosity for a striving for communication, which is what music is ultimately all about.
Bruford effortless gfrumming can seem cold, calculated and lacking emotion in a visual way, but close your eyes and listen....no,one drums as musically as him,and thats why "FIsh out of water" is what it is , can any one imagine lucky seven without Bruford parts, or the last time one heard that interply, as on HOTS or LDR.

Howe many drummers does it take to change a light bulb?
3
One to do it, and two to discuss how bruford would have done it.

Roan's Lady

09-10-2005, 02:35 PM

Alan's a great drummer, no doubt, but Bill is a little greater drummer and more importantly a little greater musician..at least to my to my ears.
Mr Bruford's someone, who always pushed the boundaries of music and never wanted to just tow the line, always exploring, always creating, and always playing with new people, which to me, is a sign of a greater musical health and curiosity for a striving for communication, which is what music is ultimately all about.
Bruford effortless gfrumming can seem cold, calculated and lacking emotion in a visual way, but close your eyes and listen....no,one drums as musically as him,and thats why "FIsh out of water" is what it is , can any one imagine lucky seven without Bruford parts, or the last time one heard that interply, as on HOTS or LDR.

Yep, agreed on all counts - Bruford plays in living color. I love him.

Howe many drummers does it take to change a light bulb?
3
One to do it, and two to discuss how bruford would have done it.

Funny, 'cos it's true. ;)

Hugh Shiebler

09-10-2005, 02:39 PM

I like both drummers.... but I think alan white is a better drummer than bill. Bill has very little emotion in his style.

I like both drummers too! But for the life of me I cannot understand this "no emtion" point of view at all. How could anyone listen to Disc One of "The Word is Live" and still think that?? How could anyone listen to "Starless" or "The Great Deceiver" and not hear ferocious, powerful emotion in that drumming?

Sorry Crotale, my fellow Connecticutter, but Bruford has been responsible for some of the most passionate, emotional drumming I have ever heard. As if somehow "technique" and "emotion" were not compatible. The opposite is true: fearsome technique is exactly what enables our best players to express emotions so powerfully.

When I saw the ABWH shows I was very dissappointed with bills playing. Hearing close to the edge after hearing alan play it was a true let down even though bill plays it on close to the edge. Alan rocks the hell out of that song and when I saw bill play it, it seemed dull and drab.Maybe he was trying to sip tea while playing CTTE or something. I have some of bill's solo albums but once again being technical to me can be boring.

I just viewed the AWBH DVD, and I saw the tour. The Bruford/Levin duet remains one of the most incredible things I have ever witnessed! There is no doubt that those '80's Simmons sound dated now, and that Bill should probably have used a more hybrid kit. But listen to him on "Birthright" does he not coax a remarkably acoustic sound from those pads? The rest of your comments are opinion, although I certainly think that Bill's drumming on the CTTE album is phenomenal - - and a big part of what made that album so great.

However, if you think that Bruford is somehow disengaged with playing, "sipping tea" than you are way, way off base. Again, just listen to "The Great Deceiver" set from Crimson. Or "Fracture" from Starless and Bible Black. Or "Asbury Park" from USA. Bill is always the one adding the ecstatic shouts; one can easily hear the total passion he brought to that playing.

To me alan is far more organic with his style yet can be just as technical as bill when need be. Bill seems very dry,synthetic and sterile with his style. Thank god bill was not on tales. Alan is a very powerful yet mysterious man, his atmosphere drips with colour and taboos.His drumming can be like a warm summer breezzz, pastoral and rolling and yet also be able to create the sounds of armageddon.

I kinda wish bill went back stage during awaken on the union tour. Awaken is no place for primped and proper synthetic drumming.

Anyway, I still like bill, I hope he is using real drums these days. Some of the old electric drums are still cool, I still love to use my simmons sds-8's because it's kinda like a mini moog for drummers.

:worm:

To me, the reverse is true: I find Bill's drumming to be more "organic" - in the sense of being more surprising (less predictable), more sensitive to the playing around him, more dynamic in all senses of that word. I have nothing but respect for Alan White - - but it is his misfortune in this world to be destined always to be compared to one of the true greats.

As for electronic drumming, how ironic is that one of the main reasons why Bill parted company with Crimson in 1997 is that he DID NOT want to play electronic drums! He moved on to phase with his band "Earthworks" that was almost entirely acoustic. If you want subtlety and summer breezes in your drumming, start there. Then for "Armageddon" try "Fracture". I can't think of any other drummer who even comes close in terms of capturing those two extremes.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-10-2005, 02:42 PM

Well said Cannon!! Closing the eyes is essential to my point. Not everyone can be as good looking as Alan in the middle of Cinema, but its the inventiveness that made Fragile great.

Howe many drummers does it take to change a light bulb?

I wonder howe many people really got that.... :lmao:

Roaaaan's!! Good to see you... :)

Roan's Lady

09-10-2005, 07:00 PM

Well said Cannon!! Closing the eyes is essential to my point. Not everyone can be as good looking as Alan in the middle of Cinema, but its the inventiveness that made Fragile great.

I wonder howe many people really got that.... :lmao:

Roaaaan's!! Good to see you... :)

Wow, that took some work, those descending SIZE=s and all! Good to see you as well, new!
Ah, and I got it, and howe! ;)

sunburstbasser

09-12-2005, 07:47 PM

I like both drummers a whole lot.

I've also heard drummers who are both more technical and more organic than either Bill or Alan.

Whats left to compare? Just the music.

Alan's drumming, once I got into it, does something for me that Bill's doesn't. Until Bill got into King Crimson, that is...

Alan is the better drummer for Yes. Bill came alive with Crim.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-13-2005, 08:23 AM

My goodness Roan's, that's a mighty cool Yes logo! I can see them singing...

Bill came alive with Crim.

If CTTE is not 'alive' then I must have rigor mortis...

Bruford Track of the Day: Silent Talking -- This is an awesome track. I actually got to like this song best on Steve Howe's Turbulence. The theme is played at the very start by a lone saxophone. This came out when I was in college and I will always remember it because there was a cemetary near the library and once in a while there would be some weirdo out in the middle of the cemetary near dusk playing saxophone. So I always associated the saxophone with the cemetary, lol, and at that time also with Bill Clinton, who was still famous for his Arsenio Hall appearance.

I think this song is BETTER on Union because it has some interplay with the lyrics: "It doesn't ring true..." Jon sings, and you have this off balance feeling like something in the rhythm is not quite locking in -- something doesn't ring true. I think this works very well. But the Turbulence version is very good the way the power chords kick in, you see how it was put together. The drum machine sucks though and its much more loose. Silent Talking on Union is tight, intricate, and well put together.

HaroldLand

09-13-2005, 09:11 AM

Have any of you seen the video Bill put out 20+ years ago call "Bruford and the Beat"? It's a documentary of him featuring commentary from Steve Howe and Robert Fripp. There's also a performance video of the song Discipline as performed by the 80's Krimson. It's all quite good.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-13-2005, 10:57 AM

HaroldLand

09-13-2005, 01:10 PM

Here's how they are selling Bruford and the Beat:
"This versatile drummer is known primarily for his work with King Crimson, Genesis, and most recently his band Earthworks. Here Bill explains some of his complex rhythmic patterns, and plays some incredible solos."
....er, has Yes become THAT obscure???

That's hard to explain. I'm not sure when that was written. If it was written when the video was first released then it might make some sense as to why Yes would go unmentioned. At that time, Bill's time in Yes had faded (from his perspective) to ancient history with no foreseeable chance of it reoccurring. But his time in Yes does gets special attention in the video itself.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-14-2005, 08:29 AM

Bruford track of the Day: Thud --This track is from Earthworks. This song rocks even though its in a jazz framework. Makes you feel like jumping up and dancing. The bass line jumps all over the place and you hear Bill giving you his typical surprises underneath. In a way it really reminds me a bit of the way he was doing things on Themes from ABWH. Really mixes up the snare work and stays away from being predictable.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-15-2005, 08:23 AM

Bruford track of the Day:

One More Red Nightmare (K.C. -- Red)
The title is kind of macabre, like lots of stuff on this album, but the interplay of bass and drums is awesome. Most bands feel that rhythm is just something 'set in motion' and you lay down the instruments on top of it, but this song shows you just howe interactive Bill can be. And the rhythms are very cool. This is a 'put the shades on' song.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-16-2005, 08:29 AM

Bruford Quote of the Day:

[pertaining to Bill on Yes, Time and a Word] "...if he had been more of a 'plug-in' drummer and less experimental, the band would not have become what it did."

--Inside Yes: 1968 - 1973

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-16-2005, 08:37 AM

Bruford Track of the Day:

Sample and Hold (The Bruford Tapes):
Anyone who wants to hear speed drumming, 4/4 time, with snare on beats 2 and 4, this is your track. I'd call this Alan White style, with lots of fast fills and rolls. He starts off the track and remains in the lead until a well deserved break near the end. Beware: the band has not been together long, and these live takes are pretty raw stuff. The ideas are not fully integrated yet, but there are exciting sections. Catch Jeff Berlin also on 5g -- sounds as fast as Chris Squire here! John Clark reminds me of Jerry Garcia on certain tracks, and David Stewart on keys rounds out the lineup. A good 'prog' outing, with lots of good ideas. Pretty rough and raw however; sounds pretty choppy; wish they had stuck with it, they have more going on than King Crimson at that time... I think this must have been before Adrian Belew came on the scene, but I'm not sure...

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-17-2005, 02:41 PM

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-19-2005, 03:41 PM

Hot Bruford Track of the Day:

Fist of Fire: This has always been one of my favorite tracks of ABWH. The entire song evokes some majestic imagery for me. But that solid beat underneath is bone shaking! This is not the same Bill Bruford who left Yes so long ago. This electric drum sound is totaly different than King Crimson. Bill lifts up the entire band here. Big sound, surging beat. Great effect.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-20-2005, 04:03 PM

Timmo

09-20-2005, 05:44 PM

My favorite Bill quote is "My life is a series of azzes," because he's always in his kit at the back of the stage looking at every's azz.

Another favorite is when recording Close to the Edge, Jon mentioned that a section was called "Total Mass Retain." Wakey said something like "What the hell is a total mass retain?" Bruford chimed in with "Why don't you call it "puke?""

TNyesfan

09-20-2005, 06:20 PM

Another favorite is when recording Close to the Edge, Jon mentioned that a section was called "Total Mass Retain." Wakey said something like "What the hell is a total mass retain?" Bruford chimed in with "Why don't you call it "puke?""

I love this story - it's too funny... I know it's a little perverse, but I really wish I had been there to see it!

Bill probably dropped his sticks as he was saying it, for dramatic effect.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-21-2005, 09:40 AM

I get the impression he was kind of a realist. I saw Steve on video talking about Fragile. You know how friends put on a mock voice to imitate friends? Steve claims Bill pointed at a shipping container stamped FRAGILE and said, "Hey, why don't we call it 'Fragile?'" Using this tone of voice that cracked me up. I guess he was young and kind of down to earth and they razz him about it. LOL.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-21-2005, 10:01 AM

Hot Bruford Track of the Day:

Silent Talking (Union)
Wanted to talk about this one again! Its just so good. I have noticed something new here. I'm going to call it 'rhythmic dissonance.' Just about all music in history is structured around a 'tonic' tone or chord and the song moves away from the tonic into dissonant tones then when it returns to the tonic it has a sweet 'finished' feeling. Dissonance on its own does not sound good. Well thats what's happening here rhythmically. You will hear this weird 'off balance' guitar riff over and over. It's slightly off balance and jerky. What Bill is doing underneath in the first half of the song is just warped. Very intricate and offbeat rhythms. It all fits together perfectly, but it leaves you feeling like you've been pulled sideways... a very 'dissonant' unnatural feel.

Then Jon comes in somewhere past halfway: "Silent Talking.... in the system.... bring me to this... beautiful world...." He repeats this is that crystal clear tone of his as a solo and then slowly the instruments come back in. Its amazing. This time they fall back into a very naturla laid back 4/4 beat (1 2 3 4) and all the quirky rhythms are gone. I like what this says: that Jon's voice brings a settling resolution to the chaos. His voice leads us out of the swirling nexus of wildness and calms it and soothes it so that it resolves on a very SETTLED conclusion.

An example of why I love Yes. They have such ability their vocabulary is nearly infinite. They are trying something new here and it works! The lyrics don't have to mean too much, its the effect they produce on the band that amazes me. Bruford and Steve combine here at the beginning to pull you apart sideways like a piece of taffy! This is one of the reasons I like Union so much.

Roan's Lady

09-21-2005, 05:12 PM

Jackaranda

09-21-2005, 05:14 PM

Bill's great, no doubt. I like Alan's style more.

I do love Bill on YesYears. He's such a smart ass, but in a funny way.

Buglunch

09-22-2005, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by muscla_1
Another favorite is when recording Close to the Edge, Jon mentioned that a section was called "Total Mass Retain." Wakey said something like "What the hell is a total mass retain?" Bruford chimed in with "Why don't you call it "puke?""

Wouldn't that be the definition of 'near-total mass bulimia? Puke, Oi means, guv-nah.
;)

I like Bill as a player more than Alan White all-round, myself.
__________________________________________________ _____-

Bill's great, no doubt. I like Alan's style more.

I do love Bill on YesYears. He's such a smart ass, but in a funny way.

-what other kind is worth being?? I like it.
:drmmr:

allpurechance

09-22-2005, 09:00 AM

Alternate Hot Bruford Tracks Of The Day-

Hell's Bells from One Of A Kind
----------------------------
One of my all - time personal favorite wake - up - in - the - morning - gotta -git - up - and - go! - tunes.Methinks sometimes that Sir William does the best he can to "camouflage" the rhythm at times,and this is a prime example.When he enters at the beginning of the song,those splash cymbals head straight for the adrenal.The high-hat work is tight and strong,something I've always adored about Bruford's work.The middle section,where Holdsworth enters,ominously,is a drumming clinic.The same time scheme,played in as many tempos as is possible given sheer human limitations.When the initial theme returns,the attentive listener is ready to begin the day with energy supplied by the brilliance of this piece...and the one that follows-

One Of A Kind,Parts I & II
------------------------
Speaking of drumming clinics,the remarkable title tracks to his second solo album are surely that.Again,the toying with tempo,and the listener is left with having to actually find the time,keep the beat him or herself.Sir William demonstrates especially in the beginning of the second section with that high-hat and some rather unbelievable fills just what can be inserted neatly and almost subversively into what we meekly refer to as a time signature.One of my favorite instrumentals,ever.

Bill Bruford:Always urging us to find the time,find the time!

Many hearty apologies for borrowing your idea,here new_sum(I prefer to consider it "contributing"!),for it is a good one!Please do continue to post further,let me not deter you!I entirely agree with your assessment of Silent Talking,by the way.One seriously underrated song is that!

Indiscipline,as well!Among Bruford's finest Crimsonian works it is!

And Five G!...alright,that's tomorrow's Alternate...!

(Can ya tell I positively adored One Of A Kind?!)

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-22-2005, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by muscla_1

I like Bill as a player more than Alan White all-round, myself.

:drmmr:

Yea, man. I mean I love Alan, after all his debut was on Tales. That's got to tell you how interesting he is not to run screaming at that point! LOL. He was solid on Tales, and he does great things. I just see Bill as being more of a total rhythm specialist like Mickey Hart.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-22-2005, 01:00 PM

Many hearty apologies for borrowing your idea,here new_sum(I prefer to consider it "contributing"!),for it is a good one!Please do continue to post further,let me not deter you!I entirely agree with your assessment of Silent Talking,by the way.One seriously underrated song is that!

(Can ya tell I positively adored One Of A Kind?!)

5g is good. That group sounds a bit like the Greatful Dead actally the way the lead guitar bubbles forth. Really awesome I wish they did more work together. The Jeff Berlin sounds like he's on Squire's level at times he is underrated. What else has he recorded?

Chime right in and speak out! We've got to get this thread rockin. Bill is great I saw him for ABWH and it was a standing ovation at the Astrodome. Unreal how good he was.

Paul G

09-22-2005, 11:42 PM

Hi Yesfans,
I just read through all of these interesting threads comparing Bill Bruford's drumming, and Alan White's drumming with YES. I was impressed with everyones' taste, intellect, and opinions.
At first, I thought it was going to be a "typical" immature disscussion (by a bunch of headbangers), but, mostly everyone's views were surprisingly "hip"...
Yesfans are just hip, and a different breed.

> As far as the "Bruford/White comparison" w/ YES;
In my opinion every gifted musician brings something different to the table...
Each one reaches in, and grabs your heart, and your soul in different ways.

> Part of what Bruford's unique stlye brought to YES... was that intellectual, jazzy displacement of the beat (which most rock drummers didn't do)...except JOHN BONHAM of course. Also Bill's "open", ringy, snare drum sound (which was quite original), because engineer's hated recording open snare drums (w/o muffling). But, Bill insisted, and that was part of his unique sound. There's too little space here to "totally and adequitly" put his genius into words.
> Now there's Alan White, who is another great drumming genius, but he's just different than Bill. (It's the old "apples and oranges" thing).
Alan's drumming contributions were just as valuable, and hip to the "new product". When he first got the YES gig, Alan rehearsed for only a week before the "Tales" tour! That's a monster musician. Alan White's drum parts (musically speaking) were perfect for that "era" of YES music.
> I personally think each guy played great (for what the music required) in each "era" of the band. I personally wouldn't want to hear anything different on any of the YES recordings, than what's been recorded.

"I've seen all good people"!
Paul Goldberg (Drummer)

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-23-2005, 12:13 AM

Paul,

Great post. I'm a little busy gettin braced for hurricane Rita, but still have time to read your post. Bruford and Bonham?? I'm sorry I do not see it. Bill doesn't have a drop of blues in him!! Thats what makes him so strong for me... J.B. is like a freight train out of control. How do you see a similarity?? Explain yourself.

Paul G

09-23-2005, 03:17 AM

Hi New sum do solve ay,

I hope the hurricane passes you by!
I'm originally from Atlantic City NJ, so I know about hurricanes.

As far as the Bruford/Bonham reference;
I didn't mean they played similarly, or sounded alike...
My reference was to the way they both "displaced the beat".

Example#1. The way they disguised "1" (as in 1,2,3,4) was unique.

Example#2. Sometimes they both would play 2 & 4 (the backbeat)
w/ the kick drum, instead of the snare (unlike most drummers).

Example#3. They were real innovative thinkers when it came to let's say "playing 4/4 over an odd time the band was playing". Or, Playing an odd time when the band was in 4/4.

That's what I meant when I compared Bruford & Bonham... It was their inventivness in the way they both would displace the beat only.

Take Care & be Safe, Paul Goldberg

The Whale

09-23-2005, 01:08 PM

I want to know one thing i think they are both grate. but why can't alan hit HOTSR like bill does? Its so sick the way he rides the cymbole

Buglunch

09-23-2005, 04:13 PM

I want to know one thing i think they are both grate. but why can't alan hit HOTSR like bill does? Its so sick the way he rides the cymbole
Bill was in on the creation of HotS and his style is completely different- Bill-jazzier/Alan rockier.
Jon has pointed this out many times- alan can't and won't become Bill.
Interpretibng as a true musician is completely different from creating or parroting.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

09-24-2005, 08:32 PM

I'll get back in beat after I normalize after hurricane Rita. Welcome to the site Paul. You are missing your state flag!

Hugh Shiebler

09-25-2005, 12:02 AM

Woah has it ever been busy today!!

Bruford track of the day:

Requiem (K.C. -- Beat)

This is abstract jazz at its most confusing. Can't say I like this harmonically, but I like what they are trying to do. You know how Jon Anderson's voice pipes so smoothly through chaotic songs sometimes? He will have a long sustained note and it seems to be like a candle in the dark; a bright beacon in a dark night. Well thats what I hear on Requiem. Its like one man struggling against chaos. You hear Bill attempting long phrases of rhythm, but he's accosted again and again by fluttering, non-sensical notes coming from what sounds like a sax or maybe its a synth. They do not follow him in rhythm. But the flourishes dont last long, and the longer rhythmic phrase from the drum kit continues. Its like a ship moving through obstructed waters. I get this feeling of someone trying to finish important work while surrounded by all sorts of obstacles and distractions, but in the end the drum kit completes its task.

The "fluttering, non-sensical notes coming from what sounds like a sax or maybe its a synth" are Fripp's lead guitar, played over a Fripertronics loop.

That style of playing may not be your cup of tea, but it is hardly "nonsensical" I guess some people would consider Coltrane's leads to be "nonsensical".

To many of us, "Requiem" is a very moving piece.

FYI, when they recorded it, all four of them were in different rooms: that sense of going in different directions was quite deliberate, and part of what lends that piece its peculiar power.

Hugh Shiebler

09-25-2005, 12:07 AM

Bruford Track of the Day:

Indiscipline: What a great little tune. Has alternating sections which have little percussion then spurts of heavy riff lines. Again, the beat is not a typical 2 & 4 beat snare. Its a sycopated roll, similar to military march but interspersed with accents. The lyrics are interesting too: the irony is that the album came out in 1981 -- the same time that the Rubic's Cube was a worldwide sensation. See if the lyrics don't remind you of a kid talkin about how much he likes the rubic'c cube. LOL.

This tune really comes to life in concert; you should check out the version on "Absent Lovers" from the final Crimson show of the '80's - - 1984 in Montreal.

As for the lyrics, this is from Sid Smith's book "In the Court of King Crimson":

"Belew's ambiguous spoken tale was based on lines taken from a letter from his then wife Margaret, describing her responses to a sculpture she had recently finished."

Hugh Shiebler

09-25-2005, 12:16 AM

5g is good. That group sounds a bit like the Greatful Dead actally the way the lead guitar bubbles forth. Really awesome I wish they did more work together. The Jeff Berlin sounds like he's on Squire's level at times he is underrated. What else has he recorded?

Chime right in and speak out! We've got to get this thread rockin. Bill is great I saw him for ABWH and it was a standing ovation at the Astrodome. Unreal how good he was.

Actually, Squire is not nearly on Jeff Berlin's level. The correct scenario would be Chris going to Jeff for lessons, not vice versa. Berlin is on all three "Bruford" band albums: "Feels Good to Me", "One of a Kind" and "Gradually Going Tornado".

(all three of which have recently been re-mastered and re-released by Bill's label)

http://www.billbruford.com/winterfold.html

By the way: Bruford and Berlin also teamed up on Kazumi Watanabe's breathtaking album "The Spice of Life" from 1987. Kazumi is a Japanes guitarist of frightening ability. Bruford plays a mix of electronic and acoustic drums, to great effect.

If you are a Bruford fan at all, BUY THIS ALBUM. YOU WILL THANK ME.

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1390721&style=music&cart=273918645&BAB=E

new_sum_do_solve_ay

10-10-2005, 07:27 PM

By the way: Bruford and Berlin also teamed up on Kazumi Watanabe's breathtaking album "The Spice of Life" from 1987. Kazumi is a Japanes guitarist of frightening ability. Bruford plays a mix of electronic and acoustic drums, to great effect.

If you are a Bruford fan at all, BUY THIS ALBUM. YOU WILL THANK ME.

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Yes, Sir! I'll get right on it. Tomorrow I will continue the track of the day. The hurricane kind of interrupted me....

Hugh Shiebler

10-10-2005, 07:45 PM

Kazumi can make grown guitarists weep.

Astonishing playing: nothing less.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

10-11-2005, 06:40 PM

Bruford Track of the Day:

Pleasure Stole the Night: Well here's another track to whet your whistle. I cannot say it's a 'hot' track because, unfortunately, like most of this album, what seemed like some awesome potential dwindled as it gets going. But all the same... What seems significant to me as an 80s teen, is that as I trace back what these musicians did I see that Bruford did not break ties with Yes at all! Here he is getting together with pal Steve to record a nice track in 1975. Howe's Beginnings was not a chart breaker. Australia seems to be the only enduring song here. Pleasure starts off with a real fun start but immediately becomes more of a wrote conclusion. Seems like they were more interested in keeping the common bond alive than in delving into real creative depths. I'll bet time was also an issue. King Crimson was probably still active during these sessions, the split having not happened until late in '74. I'll be this was recorded before that.

Hugh Shiebler

10-11-2005, 10:27 PM

Earthwork's Underground Orchestra

From Bill' Brufords website:

http://www.billbruford.com/

"The multi-talented reedsman Tim Garland, a fine composer in his own right, has been the featured artist in Earthworks, one of the longest running and internationally successful UK jazz exports, since early 2002, and the quartet has performed all over the world to remarkable acclaim. Simultaneously, the energetic Garland has also been organising the Dean Street Underground Orchestra, a little big-band of the cream of London players, for regular monthly performances at the Dean Street Pizza Express Jazz Club where Earthworks "Footloose and Fancy Free" was recorded. It was only a matter of time for one to become subsumed into the other in a mutually beneficial exchange; the intricate and idiosyncratic nature of Bill's compositions for Earthworks would breathe and expand on the larger canvas, and Garland would have an existing and unusual body of music to rearrange for an even greater impact than the quartet can produce. Saxophonist Iain Ballamy, a founding member of Earthworks back in 1987, has performed and contributed arrangements-the music is taken from right across the band's repertoire up to and including the current Earthworks CD "Random Acts of Happiness". A New York edition of the band was created especially for an exclusive 6 night run at the Iridium Jazz Club , December 7-12 2004. This was recorded for a new CD, with limited edition 2-track bonus CD, for release on Summerfold Records in January 2006."

_________________
"Any fool can play something difficult".

-- Robert Fripp

Hugh Shiebler

10-13-2005, 12:21 AM

Wow - - I did not even know this existed until just now:

http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/6818372/a/Spice+Of+Life-In+Concert+:+Watanabe,+Kazumi.htm

Spice Of Life-In Concert : Watanabe, Kazumi - Import DVD
With Bill Bruford and Jeff Berlin

"A nice one for you Prog collection" Right...

new_sum_do_solve_ay

10-13-2005, 09:06 AM

Does anyone have 'Music for Piano and Drums' with Patric Moraz? I've heard sound bites and it seems really good. What's the album like?

new_sum_do_solve_ay

10-13-2005, 10:13 AM

(Can ya tell I positively adored One Of A Kind?!)

I have not heard as much of One of a Kind as I would like to. I have heard songs from that and from Feels Good to Me and I gotta say I like some of the slower jazz sections. This is also the type of material featured in the Earthworks tracks. Someone here said Earthworks 'leaves me cold.' I can't understand that at all! I mean some types of jazz are just plain 'date songs.'

If I had only one complaint about Yes it would be this: it's generally not 'date' music. If Only You Knew is very sweet and a more modern exception, but generally Yes is driving rock and roll, esp. the classic early 70s. I love Yes, but one thing its not: it's not mellow. I like this about Earthworks and I'm hearing some good sound bites from 'Music for Drum and Piano' and 'Feels Good to Me.' Slow rhythms and soft jazz are part of the plan.

AllGoodPeephole

10-16-2005, 07:09 PM

As an off and on drummer for the past 30 some odd years myself, I have always considered Bill one of the best of the lot. The guy's a total chameleon. Can play just about anything even though jazz is his primary focus. Leaving Yes for KC was the best thing for him. Alan's Hard Rock style was IMO more fitted for the Yes sound than Bills.

I remember reading an interview with Bill in Downbeat mag in the late 70s talking about the post Crimson transition he made. After KC went on hiatus and did his stint with Genesis, he noticed how all these fusion drummers were just tearing up the skins and getting into the limelight with solo albums. Billy Cobham, Tony Williams, Lenny White and Steve Gadd to name a few. So he went back to square one and refined his basic rudiments, pumped iron and came back with Feels So Good and UK as a more leaner and meaner Bill Bruford.

About the only phase he went through I didn't really like was this electronic drums bit he was doing during ABWH. Electronic drums are fine for an occasional effect, but I wouldn't want to be dependent on them. But that's Bill for you. Always the chameleon.

Hugh Shiebler

10-16-2005, 07:26 PM

Agreed that electronic drums were best when used in moderation. And that Bruford's use of them during AWBH was perhaps a bit excessive - - and jarring in context. I still don't understand why he would not have used more acoustic drummming to re-visit the Fragile and CTTE material.

Bruford's use of the Simmons drums was much more appropriate (and modest), in my opinion, in the '80's Crimson. Get the DVD "Neal and Jack and Me". with shows form 1982 and 1984, to get a better idea of what I mean.

Personally, I really loved Bill's late '70's sounnd - - all those roto-toms - - in UK and with his own band. His drum sound on that first UK album was impeccable.

Isn't it ironic that one of the primary reasons Bill gave NOT to continue with Crimson post-1997 is that he was no longer interested in electronic drumming within the techno-soundscape context that Fripp was pursuing.

The v-drums that Pat Mastellotto (& Adrian Belew) broke in with the ProjeKcts represented a qunatum leap in the develpment of electronic drumming. Now they can convincingly emulate a whole batterie of acoustic sounds, and integrate a virtually unlimited sonic palette of sampled sounds.

I do think it is kind of funny that so many folks around hear slag Bruford for his "electronic" sound some 15 years ago, wheares in reality he has been on an almost all acoustic kick for years now.

To Noose Umm Do Chalet: I have not heard either of the Bruford-Moraz albums in many years. I recall them being jazzy, and loosely improvisational. I do know that they have just been re-mastered, and (with all of the Bruford solo albums) and are available at Bruford's website...

allpurechance

10-17-2005, 03:52 AM

Hugh Shiebler

10-17-2005, 01:11 PM

I was lucky enough to be present for the first UK tour,a very small venue in Albany,the (former) Madison Theatre.Maximum occupancy,about 1,000 souls.And,it was filled.

Oh,about 1977.

A local band,Luxury(I can't believe I remember this,lol) opened.UK's equipment took up the vast preponderance of the fairly small stage.Luxury was a 7-piece all squeezed in front of the setup for Misters Bruford,Wetton,Jobson and Holdsworth.Couldn't have been an easy gig for them(Luxury),opening for such a band.And,it showed.

UK opened with Alaska.Above us was one of the theatre's chandeliers.As Jobson,in the still darkened lighting of the stage hit that one note,that bass drone on his synth,and then-left-!-again,that chandelier started to rattle alarmingly!The band took the stage in the dark,then Brufurd commenced the song proper,exploding across those rototoms with a sound that could awaken gods...

This was a show I shall never forget.Only a few times in my concert going experience has this one ever been equalled,and surpassed even fewer times.

Bill Bruford was the center of my universe that night.Greatly did I anticipate seeing this hero of mine,and he did not disappoint.That night I also learned the singular joys of Alan Holdsworth firsthand for the first time,John Wetton as well,first and only time,and Eddie Jobson as well,first and only time.Bill dominated,even in this esteemed group.The only other time I witnessed him perform was on the Union tour,with Alan White(a dream come true,as you know well).That night he suborned himself,for the band,for the music.For UK,he was all out,unfettered.

Amazing,remarkable,and singularly unique musician.

I witnessed that tour too, APC. That was one of my first "real" concerts; it was UK's first North American gig (Hempstead, NY). They opened for Al DiMeola. I remember sensing, for the firsrt time, how powerful Wetton must have been with Crimson.

There was a certain tension inherent in that band, between the jazzier Bruford/Holdsworth side and the rockier-popier Wetton/Jobson side, that never really settled. Holdsworth was never very comfortable in that band.
Still, I think that tension contributed to the greatness of their music.

I was lucky enough to see Bruford numerous times after that: the Bruford band (with Holdsworth, Dave Stewart, and Jeff Berlin) played the Bottom Line in NYC (RIP) several times in 1979 and 1980. I was also at the show (with "the Unknown John Clark") at My Father's Place in LI that became the album "The Bruford Tapes".

Then the re-formed Kind Crimson for the "Discipline" tour in 1981, a series of now-legendary shows at the Savoy. 1982, pre-Beat at the Landmark Theater in Syracuse; 1984 at the Pier in NYC.

Then I guess I did not see Bruford again until AWBH at Jones Beach in 1989.

AllGoodPeephole

10-17-2005, 02:42 PM

I witnessed that tour too, APC. That was one of my first "real" concerts; it was UK's first North American gig (Hempstead, NY). They opened for Al DiMeola. I remember sensing, for the firsrt time, how powerful Wetton must have been with Crimson.

There was a certain tension inherent in that band, between the jazzier Bruford/Holdsworth side and the rockier-popier Wetton/Jobson side, that never really settled. Holdsworth was never very comfortable in that band.
Still, I think that tension contributed to the greatness of their music.

I was lucky enough to see Bruford numerous times after that: the Bruford band (with Holdsworth, Dave Stewart, and Jeff Berlin) played the Bottom Line in NYC (RIP) several times in 1979 and 1980. I was also at the show (with "the Unknown John Clark") at My Father's Place in LI that became the album "The Bruford Tapes".

Then the re-formed Kind Crimson for the "Discipline" tour in 1981, a series of now-legendary shows at the Savoy. 1982, pre-Beat at the Landmark Theater in Syracuse; 1984 at the Pier in NYC.

Then I guess I did not see Bruford again until AWBH at Jones Beach in 1989.
I've seen Bill 4 times. 1st was the Fragile tour with Genesis opening for them at Constitution Hall in Wash DC, then I saw him with KC on the Starless tour at the Kennedy Center in Wash. Then again on the same tour you saw on the One Of A Kind tour w/JohnClark at club in Virginia call Louie's Rock City and finally on the Union tour at George Mason University. Never a disappointment.

Yes_Fan_4_Life26

10-17-2005, 05:57 PM

Heart Of The Sunrise is Bill Bruford's best drumming in one song, let alone the album.

frank zappa

10-31-2005, 09:11 AM

Does anyone have 'Music for Piano and Drums' with Patric Moraz? I've heard sound bites and it seems really good. What's the album like?

I bought 'Music for Piano and Drums' on vinyl last century and liked it back then, though not enough to get it as CD. 'Eastern Sundays' is gorgeous.

frank zappa

10-31-2005, 09:30 AM

I've seen Bill 4 times. 1st was the Fragile tour with Genesis opening for them at Constitution Hall in Wash DC, then I saw him with KC on the Starless tour at the Kennedy Center in Wash. Then again on the same tour you saw on the One Of A Kind tour w/JohnClark at club in Virginia call Louie's Rock City and finally on the Union tour at George Mason University. Never a disappointment.

Aw man, Fragile tour? Genesis opening? That must have been something else!
Tell us more, please. What was your overall impression of Genesis?

I got to see Uncle Bill...
with ABWH (Köln, Nov. 1989)
with King Crimson (Düsseldorf ?, 1995)
with King Crimson (Köln, 1996)
with Michiel Borstlap (Bielefeld, Feb 2004)
with Earthworks (Frankfurt, July 2004)

That gig with Earthworks last year was fantastic! Never heard BB play so fluent and furious before.

AllGoodPeephole

10-31-2005, 10:54 AM

Aw man, Fragile tour? Genesis opening? That must have been something else!
Tell us more, please. What was your overall impression of Genesis?

I got to see Uncle Bill...
with ABWH (Köln, Nov. 1989)
with King Crimson (Düsseldorf ?, 1995)
with King Crimson (Köln, 1996)
with Michiel Borstlap (Bielefeld, Feb 2004)
with Earthworks (Frankfurt, July 2004)

That gig with Earthworks last year was fantastic! Never heard BB play so fluent and furious before.
I wasn't really into Genesis much at the time. The buddy I went with knew more about them than I did. I think it was the same tour they did Genesis Live.

I remember the opening number was I think Watcher Of The Skies. The whole stage was covered by a black cutain and all the lights were out except a single blacklight on the floor in front. Gabriel was standing there in a black suit with a hood over his head so you couldn't see him at all. Then he pulls his hands out with white gloves on and starts doing hand gestures to the music. With all the black covering him up and the illumination of the blacklight, it gave the illusion that the hands were disembodied and just floating there! Pretty amazing opener! Eventually the curtain opened revealing the rest of the band and Peter took off the hood. And followed the show with his usual quick change costumes.

That was when I started to get into them more.

frank zappa

10-31-2005, 05:09 PM

I wasn't really into Genesis much at the time. The buddy I went with knew more about them than I did. I think it was the same tour they did Genesis Live.

I remember the opening number was I think Watcher Of The Skies. The whole stage was covered by a black cutain and all the lights were out except a single blacklight on the floor in front. Gabriel was standing there in a black suit with a hood over his head so you couldn't see him at all. Then he pulls his hands out with white gloves on and starts doing hand gestures to the music. With all the black covering him up and the illumination of the blacklight, it gave the illusion that the hands were disembodied and just floating there! Pretty amazing opener! Eventually the curtain opened revealing the rest of the band and Peter took off the hood. And followed the show with his usual quick change costumes.

That was when I started to get into them more.

Thanks for sharing AGP! Wouldn't it be incredible if some bootleger
recorded the show?

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-03-2005, 11:50 PM

I bought 'Music for Piano and Drums' on vinyl last century and liked it back then, though not enough to get it as CD. 'Eastern Sundays' is gorgeous.

What is Eastern Sundays?

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-04-2005, 12:00 AM

Well to continue my review of Bruford's work for those who have not delved deeply and may just be getting their feet wet, I'd like to reiterate: PROLIFIC. That is to say, not just quantity of output, but also of style.

Sartori in Tangeir:
A pulsing and breathing song. This one feels alive. At the present time this may sound like some kind of tame version of New Order, or other techno pop names. Let's remember how FRESH this was at the time it was released. We're talkin i-n-n-o-v-a-t-i-v-e here. Gosh, I don't even thing the TRS-80 was out on the market yet in America and here's some hot technology coming out. Sartori is all instrumental. Bill here uses electronic drum equipment does not sound tremendously modulated in sound from the sound of a real snare or tom, just softer. Not a lot here to throw one off balance, but the purpose here is to showcase some of the new sounds they have discovered, so the rhythm is driving and organic. Funny as it may seem to say this, but I can guess this may have spawned an entire generation of techno-pop with its influence. If 'progressive' means much it is seen here. We're progressing right into the heart of a rising sun of techno-dance programming. Now this sounds bland but this was cutting edge!

Buglunch

11-04-2005, 12:54 AM

Hugh Shiebler

11-04-2005, 01:13 AM

https://secure5.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=bruford&BusType=BtoC&Count1=893749415&Count2=810889840

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-04-2005, 01:09 PM

Great Bruford Interview in early 2005:

http://www.worldofgenesis.com/BillBruford-interview2005.htm

Contains some great stories about Yes, Genesis, Project X, and UK.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-04-2005, 01:20 PM

Bill elaborates on the difficulties with visas for musicians. Sheds light on the recent problems getting Steve's visa for the aborted Drama...

"It's getting harder by the minute and it's getting more expensive by the minute. It costs $4,000 for me to bring a band into the States, just in visa costs alone. Then there's a certain amount of headache with the paperwork; a European musician has to state every country he's been to over the past ten years. Now, we're in and out of countries every two minutes, so this represents severe academic work. And whereas people used to say, 'Yeah, we're going to the States,' now it's a bit like, 'Oh, bloody hell.'"

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-05-2005, 12:04 PM

Any euro-fans going to this show?

27 November Auditorio de Galicia, Santiago de Compostela.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-06-2005, 04:53 PM

Hot Bruford Track of the Day:

Perpetual Change (Yessongs) contains on of the best rock solos you will EVER hear. As is it wasn't enough to hear a smoking guitar solo we also get a stunning drum interlude at the end. This song is so full of good things its hard to completely describe it. We have all heard it many times so I will skip too much glowing praise and simply point out to its uniqueness in general. I am hard pressed to think of any other Yes song where the rhythm SPLITS IN TWO. You may know what I'm talking about. Even on the studio track this is sophisticated. There is a section which completes a part of the song which has lots of fast (16th? 32nd?) notes jumping around very quickly in a repeating fashion. Then underneath this we hear the bass leading the original theme first heard at "And there you are... Making it up but you're sure that it is a star." [Note: Somewhere about this point in the post a 7-inch garden lizard startled me in my room. See post "Murder in H-town" for details...] BOTH of these sections continue for several repetitions. This is incredible songwriting. Not only do they overlap harmonically (surelyRick's doing) but RHYTHMICALLY these two themes remain separate (meaning they take different amounts of time to complete) yet they do not interfere with each other and they do manage to hit the same downbeat occasionally. Sheer rhythmic brilliance. I cannot think of this pattern in ANY other Yes song, or any song in rock. Can any one else think of someone who uses this motif?

Great songwriting in the studio, great guitar soloing (I mean Steve TAKES this song places before he rests), and the solo is incredible. You CAN hear the song playing even without the band. You hear the distinctive beats and
accents. You can identify this as perpetual change JUST by the rhythm. One of Bill's peak moments.

AllGoodPeephole

11-06-2005, 05:32 PM

Hot Bruford Track of the Day:

Perpetual Change (Yessongs) contains on of the best rock solos you will EVER hear. As is it wasn't enough to hear a smoking guitar solo we also get a stunning drum interlude at the end. This song is so full of good things its hard to completely describe it. We have all heard it many times so I will skip too much glowing praise and simply point out to its uniqueness in general. I am hard pressed to think of any other Yes song where the rhythm SPLITS IN TWO. You may know what I'm talking about. Even on the studio track this
is sophisticated. There is a section which completes a part of the song which has lots of fast (16th? 32nd?) notes jumping around very quickly in a repeating fashion. Then underneath this we hear the bass leading the original
theme first heard at "And there you are... Making it up but you're sure that it is a star." BOTH of these sections continue for several repetitions. This is incredible songwriting. Not only do they overlap harmonically (surelyRick's doing) but RHYTHMICALLY these two themes remain separate (meaning they take different amounts of time to complete) yet they do not interfere with each other and they do manage to hit the same downbeat occasionally.
Sheer rhythmic brilliance. I cannot think of this pattern in ANY other Yes song, or any song in rock. Can any one else think of someone who uses this motif?

Great songwriting in the studio, great guitar soloing (I mean Steve TAKES this song places before he rests), and the solo is incredible. You CAN hear the song playing even without the band. You hear the distinctive beats and
accents. You can identify this as perpetual change JUST by the rhythm. One of Bill's peak moments.
Good analysis. I love this track! One of my all time favorites. Basically what you have is 3 songs linked. You have your opening segment done in 5/4 time. Then like a bat out of hell, it goes into warp speed in what I think is 2/4 time. Then after a feedback or synthesizer crescendo is goes right back into the opening segment again. Then ending in the final segment in 3/4 time with Steve pulling off the most beautiful and melodic guitar jam of his career escalating to Bill's stellar spotlight. An absolute masterpiece of musicianship!

Roan's Lady

11-06-2005, 06:25 PM

Hot Bruford Track of the Day:

Perpetual Change (Yessongs) contains on of the best rock solos you will EVER hear...

Perpetual Change - what an amazing song that in my opinion, was the stand-out tune in the very early days of Yes - the genius of this group of young lads in their early-to-mid twenties was nothing short of astounding.
However, wasn't it Alan who played it on Yessongs?

Hugh Shiebler

11-06-2005, 06:33 PM

Nopers, that was definitely Mr. Bill on Perpetual Change on Yessongs. One of his rare recorded solos.

Damn, now I have to go listen to it!

AllGoodPeephole

11-06-2005, 06:39 PM

Perpetual Change - what an amazing song that in my opinion, was the stand-out tune in the very early days of Yes - the genius of this group of young lads in their early-to-mid twenties was nothing short of astounding.
However, wasn't it Alan who played it on Yessongs?
No, it is Bill on that track. Bill has 2 tracks on Yessongs, said track and Long Distance Runaround/The Fish.

Roan's Lady

11-06-2005, 06:46 PM

Ahh...thanks for setting me straight, you two - BAD DOPEY RL!! :pat:
I think I must listen now as well. :headset:

AllGoodPeephole

11-06-2005, 06:54 PM

Ahh...thanks for setting me straight, you two - BAD DOPEY RL!! :pat:
I think I must listen now as well. :headset:
Just to make you a little jealous, I saw them on that same Fragile tour performing those cuts with Bill. In fact, I distinctly remember the shave and a haircut opening. Now whether that was the track they recorded for Yessongs, I don't know. I kind of doubt it. I think Yessongs was recorded in England.

Roan's Lady

11-06-2005, 07:09 PM

Just to make you a little jealous, I saw them on that same Fragile tour performing those cuts with Bill. In fact, I distinctly remember the shave and a haircut opening. Now whether that was the track they recorded for Yessongs, I don't know. I kind of doubt it. I think Yessongs was recorded in England.

Yes, only a little jealous, thank you. I'm not seething, really I'm not!!

:crybby: :banghead: :crybby:

But truly, that must have been so amazing, AGP! I would have loved to see them play with Bill on the throne.

AllGoodPeephole

11-06-2005, 07:29 PM

Yes, only a little jealous, thank you. I'm not seething, really I'm not!!

:crybby: :banghead: :crybby:

But truly, that must have been so amazing, AGP! I would have loved to see them play with Bill on the throne.
Here, have some more. Genesis opened for them. And I had no idea who they were at the time either.

Roan's Lady

11-06-2005, 07:50 PM

Here, have some more. Genesis opened for them. And I had no idea who they were at the time either.

OH MY GOD THAT'S IT!! YOU'VE KILLED ME!!

Hed G.

11-07-2005, 04:23 AM

...the Fragile tour with Genesis opening for them at Constitution Hall in Wash DC...

I'm sad to say I don't believe a word. According to Forgotten Yesterdays,
the only Yes gigs EVER at this venue were the ABWH and Full Circle tours.
Furthermore, according to the official Genesis website, the only 2 gigs
played by Genesis in the U.S. up until the end of 1972 were in December,
as a headliner, and by which time Bruford had already left Yes (who were
filming Yessongs at the London Rainbow the same week!).

Maybe you still have the ticket stub, I wonder?

frank zappa

11-07-2005, 06:11 AM

What is Eastern Sundays?

A great song!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002UJNCY/104-6325451-4361539?v=glance&s=music&n=507846&vi=samples#disc_1

AllGoodPeephole

11-07-2005, 11:40 AM

I'm sad to say I don't believe a word. According to Forgotten Yesterdays,
the only Yes gigs EVER at this venue were the ABWH and Full Circle tours.
Furthermore, according to the official Genesis website, the only 2 gigs
played by Genesis in the U.S. up until the end of 1972 were in December,
as a headliner, and by which time Bruford had already left Yes (who were
filming Yessongs at the London Rainbow the same week!).

Maybe you still have the ticket stub, I wonder?
WHOA! Hold on my friend. This can't be right. I'm not trying to commit some false boasting here. I still keep tabs on my old high-school buddy I went to these concerts with. And there have been a lot of them. I'm going to give a call and see what he says. Best I can do. Just give the benefit of the doubt, ok? Don't feed me to the wolves on this.

And no, I didn't save the ticket stub. So stop being a wiseass.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-07-2005, 12:06 PM

Perpetual Change - what an amazing song that in my opinion, was the stand-out tune in the very early days of Yes - the genius of this group of young lads in their early-to-mid twenties was nothing short of astounding.
However, wasn't it Alan who played it on Yessongs?

Did you just say 'lads?' LOL. I thought you were American!

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-09-2005, 10:27 AM

If you are like me you don't like the electronic drums in most 'techo-pop' contexts. It has kind of an immature sound. But Bruford really does an awesome job with synthetic drums. Order of the Universe shows you just how tastey it can be and what a sonic net he weaves with this setup seen during the ABWH tour:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d70/cdamezcua/bruford-1989ABWH.jpg

Hed G.

11-09-2005, 02:22 PM

WHOA! Hold on my friend. This can't be right. I'm not trying to commit some false boasting here. I still keep tabs on my old high-school buddy I went to these concerts with. And there have been a lot of them. I'm going to give a call and see what he says. Best I can do. Just give the benefit of the doubt, ok? Don't feed me to the wolves on this.

And no, I didn't save the ticket stub. So stop being a wiseass.

Still waiting.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-09-2005, 02:43 PM

:dog:

Roan's Lady

11-09-2005, 04:09 PM

AllGoodPeephole

11-09-2005, 05:26 PM

Still waiting.
So am I, Sherlock. I left a mess. with his wife, he's out of town 'til Fri. I'll hook up with him this weekend. I got a funny feeling what the deal is, though. Keep in mind, we're talking about 34 years of some pretty stoned memories.

Roan's Lady

11-09-2005, 05:37 PM

I left a mess. with his wife, he's out of town 'til Fri.

Goodness. Who's going to clean the mess before he gets home? You're a fellow of derring-do, you are. ;)

AllGoodPeephole

11-09-2005, 06:38 PM

Goodness. Who's going to clean the mess before he gets home? You're a fellow of derring-do, you are. ;)
Will you jury members cut it out! JEEZ! What is this? The Spanish inquisition? LOL!

Stevehoweworshipu!

11-10-2005, 12:41 AM

Inca Roads

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-10-2005, 11:12 AM

What was that?

Hot Bruford Track of the Day:
Astral Traveller -- was just voting in the semi-finals of Ummys poll. I really like the changeup/chorus section of this song. The drums really make it work. Punctuates the track. The lyrics are kind of dreamy and hard to follow but the rhythm is right on track, making that song my vote. Since I was an 80s teen, I have no memory of what was hot at that time, so I am only guessing but it seems like this was some pretty groundbreaking stuff. I would think that only John Bonham might have had this type of pounding 'mixup' in the center of the song. Bill really takes the wheel here.

Hed G.

11-11-2005, 07:22 PM

My hot Bruford track of the day: Providence from Red.
Recorded live at the second-to-last gig by this line-up,
this improvisation demonstrates the whole band's ability
to use space and silence as part of a musical statement.
Bruford's abstinence from playing a full-out funk backbeat
alongside Wetton's growling Bass anchors the delicate
counter-balance between Wetton and Cross' violin, in
essence holding back the eventual eruption. A remarkably
mature musical choice, which adds almost unbearable tension
to the entire piece.
Took me quite a few years to wrap my brain around this one.
Well worth the effort.

Hugh Shiebler

11-11-2005, 07:51 PM

Oh yeah.

AllGoodPeephole

11-11-2005, 10:55 PM

Ok, was on the phone with him for about 2 hours. Talk about going down memory lane! Asked him about the 1st Yes concert we went to and he said it was in Maryland (you see, that's 1 of 2 states that surround the DC area. Ok? In case you didn't know). Anyway, he said he thought the opening act was Humble Pie and not Genesis, so we both checked the Forgotten page and sure enough it was the Shady Grove show in the winter of '71. That was 1 of several venues around the DC/Baltimore area for concerts in the early 70's until 1973 when the Capital Center Sports Arena was built. Where after that, about 80% of the concerts were held there. As for Genesis, that was a separate show we went to later just down the road from where we saw Yes in Balitmore. The Constitution Hall concert I was probably thinking about was 1 of 2 Zappa concerts I saw there. Yeah, I know how do you confuse Zappa with Yes? Good question! But remember, this was the 70's. Well, they were both prog!

Hell, we were arguing about who played with Yes on the solo album tour in '76 when we saw them at RFK Stadium. He kept saying it was Ted Nugent and I kept saying it was Frampton. Turns out I was right. Nugent was at another concert we saw at the same place, the same year with Aerosmith and Lynyrd Skynyrd. WHEW!

Anyway, that's it. Take it for what it is. I definitely saw Bruford with Yes and whether you all believe me or not, I'll still sleep like a baby tonight not worrying about a few birthday presents I won't be getting. Ladies and gentleman, boys and girls and Yes fans alike, the AGP Whipping Post is hereby closed! And this whipping boy is now out of here! Bye all!

THE END

Hed G.

11-12-2005, 04:34 PM

Don't get all uptight about it! Just making sure you weren't
pulling a quick one on us. I appreciate you going to the
trouble of sorting it out. No hard feelings?

AllGoodPeephole

11-12-2005, 05:07 PM

Don't get all uptight about it! Just making sure you weren't
pulling a quick one on us. I appreciate you going to the
trouble of sorting it out. No hard feelings?
Seems I remember seeing the Forgotten page a couple years ago but never really checked it out and just forgot about it. Actually I appreciate you reminding me of it. Me and my buddy were getting some serious memory jarring on that!

Anyway no hard feelings correct. Just put it behind us, ok?

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-12-2005, 06:15 PM

No, it is Bill on that track. Bill has 2 tracks on Yessongs, said track and Long Distance Runaround/The Fish.

Now see, if Hed G hadn't been a skeptic you would never have had a good cobweb clearing convo with an old bud. Isn't this great?

Well anyhow, now that the exaggerations are over maybe you can tell what in the heck is a 'shave and a haircut' opening..... Are you saying they did some kind of nutty thing to warm up with?

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-12-2005, 06:36 PM

Hot Bruford Track of the Day:

Sahara of Snow: (One of a Kind)
This is a groove! I like the version of The Bruford Tapes and Jeff Berlin really leads the number. It a rock goove that just jams. Great alternation of beat between drum and bass here. It sounds like a cross between Rush and Genesis, if such was possible. This is all instrumental, but I'd bet if it had lyrics it would have made a good charting hit song. Just kind of a strut your stuff kind of feel to it and then it ends in an absolute blur of energy, which I guess is the 'snow'-storm. Awesome stuff.

AllGoodPeephole

11-12-2005, 06:52 PM

Now see, if Hed G hadn't been a skeptic you would never have had a good cobweb clearing convo with an old bud. Isn't this great?

Well anyhow, now that the exaggerations are over maybe you can tell what in the heck is a 'shave and a haircut' opening..... Are you saying they did some kind of nutty thing to warm up with?
Homework assignment: Listen to Yessongs. Give me your report tomorrow. I seriously doubt it's the same performance I saw. Must've been a routine opening for that song.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-13-2005, 12:37 AM

OK AGP. But I already know it was a different performance. You shall receive a report...

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-13-2005, 10:54 PM

AllGoodPeephole

11-13-2005, 11:51 PM

OK AGP a full review of Yessongs belongs someplace else. But you know what? I noticed what you're talkin about!!

There are two sections that are worth mentioning. The section just before Rick plays the 'Six Wives' excerpts is neat because we hear Jon just sing some tuneless melody, making a clear pitch, sounding nice, and we hear Steve also plucking a few strings; then Rick comes in with ALL the bells and whistles. It makes for a real contrast and shows you how much of the music can really be made by that one man!

I started to very seriously give you a report, but by the time HOTS was over I knew I had found what you were talking about: Shave and a Haircut!! LOL. At the very end Steve starts this little ditty and plays shave and a haircut. I get it now! This must have been what you saw. You are saying this was an opener?
Yes! That is the opener to PC. You see, when they remastered YSSGS on CD, they kind of screwed up and overlaped the opening of PC to the end of HOTS. If you had YSSGS on vinyl you'd see what I mean. I noticed it the first time I bought it on CD in '88. I just got the '93 remastered version which sounds better than my old copy, but they still didn't correct that editing flaw. Wish they did, the album flows better. On vinyl, you hear the shave and a haircut and immediately you hear who I think is Chris doing the count off and it goes right into PC. Go figure.

Buglunch

11-14-2005, 01:12 AM

Hed G.

11-14-2005, 06:04 AM

..The section just before Rick plays the 'Six Wives' excerpts is neat because we hear Jon just sing some tuneless melody, making a clear pitch, sounding nice...

Tuneless melody? Oh! the shame! He's singing the oboe solo from
the opening of Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring".
Brush-up on your modern classics! If you like Yes and you dig
the Bruford-Wetton Crimson, you should check out where they
got their polyrhythmic and polyphonic ideas from.
Stravinsky is a great place to start. Heck - Yes have been using
the finale of his "Firebird" suite as their walk-on music for 30 years!

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-14-2005, 02:22 PM

Oooh kaaay. I didn't recognize Rite of Spring. As for oboe I believe that's Albino Camels dept. I never played a wind instrument, only drums, trumpet, and piano. Tuneless melody is an unfair phrase. I think what I would really call it is a 'vocal doodle' of just a few seconds. Very nice but brief. However the point being made is that its seconds long, just a few notes of solo vocal, a few notes of solo acoustic guitar, then he introduces Rick. A power solo in a very big way.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-14-2005, 02:25 PM

Yes! That is the opener to PC. You see, when they remastered YSSGS on CD, they kind of screwed up and overlaped the opening of PC to the end of HOTS. If you had YSSGS on vinyl you'd see what I mean. I noticed it the first time I bought it on CD in '88. I just got the '93 remastered version which sounds better than my old copy, but they still didn't correct that editing flaw. Wish they did, the album flows better. On vinyl, you hear the shave and a haircut and immediately you hear who I think is Chris doing the count off and it goes right into PC. Go figure.Thanks AGP for the music lab! Not often I get a guided walkthrough. Well I guess if this was a standard opener then it's no wonder it got edited the way it did. Since Alan played HOTS and Bill plays on PC then it's clear these were spliced from two different shows. I'm sure they did as good a job as possible. So that's Chris counting off?

AllGoodPeephole

11-14-2005, 08:27 PM

Thanks AGP for the music lab! Not often I get a guided walkthrough. Well I guess if this was a standard opener then it's no wonder it got edited the way it did. Since Alan played HOTS and Bill plays on PC then it's clear these were spliced from two different shows. I'm sure they did as good a job as possible. So that's Chris counting off?
I'm not really sure it's Chris or not. Could be Bill too. I don't think it's Jon or Rick though. Usually in bands, it's someone in the rhythm section that does the count offs.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-14-2005, 08:50 PM

AllGoodPeephole

11-14-2005, 09:11 PM

I was going to say that sounded off, because I have seen Chris control the transitions many times and many times he closes a song by moving his body and guitar indicating "cut," but I've never seen him count off...
You may be right. I don't recall Chris counting off either. Seen Alan do it a few times.

You know, I really kick myself in the butt for not attending Bill's drum clinic he held in Columbus OH. I would've loved to have seen that!

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-15-2005, 01:56 AM

Wow, that would have been hot! Nowadays he has given one in Croatia (?? can't recall but I know it was some former Yugoslavic area) because the work visa applications for the U.S. are such a piece of beaurocratic excrement. Excuse me would someone tell the Muslims to forget their terrorism I'd like to see Bill in the states again...

Hed G.

11-15-2005, 05:16 AM

...Excuse me would someone tell the Muslims to forget their terrorism I'd like to see Bill ...

AMEN to that!

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-15-2005, 11:13 AM

Terrorism: It's all fun and games until rock musicians can't get visas because security is tightening up.

Hed G.

11-15-2005, 06:47 PM

Terrorism: It's all fun and games until rock musicians can't get visas because security is tightening up.

Tell me about it! I was thinking of getting involved in promoting
an Earthworks gig here in Israel about 3 years ago, even had
a short e-correspondence with the B himself, but it fell apart
because of security reasons (plus equipment insurance prices
in the Mid-East). BUMMER!

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-19-2005, 06:36 PM

What kind of venue for a show do they have in Israel? Is it safe?

Hed G.

11-20-2005, 12:57 PM

What kind of venue for a show do they have in Israel? Is it safe?

We've got plenty of venues! The best of which is the ancient
Roman Amphitheatre in Caeserea.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-22-2005, 09:53 AM

Hed G.

11-22-2005, 03:51 PM

About 3000 seats. I saw Jethro Tull there in '92 and '04,
and Wakeman's Gospels show in '87.

Buglunch

11-23-2005, 02:29 AM

Caeserea! What a place to see a show! The history of that one must go back 2000 years. If Bruford comes to play there PM me right away. LOL. I've seen a show at the Greek Amphitheater in Los Angeles. Seated about 25,000 or more. Saw Santana there in 1988. How big is that amphitheater?
Wow. But guess what?? Last night I saw a 1944 movie showing off Russian allies fighting Axis and one of the crew was named:
Original Music by
Daniele Amfitheatrof! . Must have come through Greek to Cyrillic.

It was also Gregory Peck's first movie.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036748/

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-23-2005, 09:12 AM

Wow. But guess what?? Last night I saw a 1944 movie showing off Russian allies fighting Axis and one of the crew was named:
Original Music by
Daniele Amfitheatrof! . Must have come through Greek to Cyrillic.

It was also Gregory Peck's first movie.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036748/

Well Bug I haven't seen that movie. I'll check it out. But you should be aware that the Russian's had not alphabet until they met the Greek missionaries. They were barbarians until the Greeks showed them the light of writing.

If you like war movies you MUST check out a Communist era Russian film "Nevsky." This is about a Medieval war hero who fought against German troops. The historicity may be questionable, I'm not sure, but if you like inspiring scenes of men fighting land battles hand to hand this is the best you will EVER see. Awesome! I believe the director's name is Eisenstein. Literally must have had 100,000 extras or more...

new_sum_do_solve_ay

11-23-2005, 09:15 AM

About 3000 seats. I saw Jethro Tull there in '92 and '04,
and Wakeman's Gospels show in '87.

That's nearly the PERFECT size! Porcupine Tree played to a crowd of about 500 or so. Seemed a little small. I remember when I was about 20 I saw Jane's Addiction in LA at the John Ansen Ford Amphitheater, which was about that size: 2000 - 3000. This was before they were a huge hit, and it made you feel like you were 'in on a secret' band.

Buglunch

11-24-2005, 02:34 AM

Well Bug I haven't seen that movie. I'll check it out. But you should be aware that the Russian's had not alphabet until they met the Greek missionaries. They were barbarians until the Greeks showed them the light of writing.

If you like war movies you MUST check out a Communist era Russian film "Nevsky." This is about a Medieval war hero who fought against German troops. The historicity may be questionable, I'm not sure, but if you like inspiring scenes of men fighting land battles hand to hand this is the best you will EVER see. Awesome! I believe the director's name is Eisenstein. Literally must have had 100,000 extras or more...
I've seen 'Aleksandr Nyevsky' and it's really good, anti-Soviet and war material telling an ancient tale.
Even the word 'Moskva' for 'Moscow' is not Russian but means 'muddy river' in Estonian or Latvian; we were all savages once with no writing, especially the wee Scots-Canucks like me, nu?

Hed G.

11-24-2005, 06:16 AM

Time to get this thread back on topic!

Hot Bruford Track Of The Day:
Either End Of August, from his debut album as bandleader,
'Feels Good To Me', fresh out of U.K, with Allan Holdsworth in tow.
A beautiful ballad, without slipping into utter kitsch, proving
Bill's ability to pen a good tune. Opening with a waterfall effect
on percussion, accompanied by a synth-bass, the piano presents
the basic harmonic structure, only to be replaced by a
reverse tape synth solo, interplaying with a wonderful fluglehorn
(courtesy of Kenny Wheeler). Jeff Berlin takes the lead melody
on fretless, only to be replaced by Allan's super-sustained guitar.
The flugehorn sails back in to play the penultimate section in unison
with the guitar. After a well-placed break the bass takes control
again, then replaced by the guitar on lead, with the fluglehorn
soloing around the main melody. Then all the stops are pulled.
The guitar and fluglehorn play the unison theme again, this time
with the synth providing fade-in chords that sound like an
overblown horn section, the bass nudging the whole thing along.
Another break, and then a grandiose Coda, complete with a
"top of the cliff" solo from Holdsworth and "divebombing" tom-rolls
from Bruford.

This is a prime example of Bruford the composer, arranger
and very tasteful drummer, and one of my personal favourites
from his entire catalog.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

12-08-2005, 11:38 AM

I'm PO'd:

:soapbox:

Read this lead in to a review of Fish Out of Water:

Reviewed by: Tom Karr, March 2004

There may be some contentious arguments as to which of the many solo projects by the members of Yes is the best. Anderson’s Olias Of Sunhillow? Wakeman’s Six Wives Of Henry The VIII, or his magnificent Journey To The Centre Of The Earth, perhaps? Steve Howe has produced many fine solo works, more than I’ve heard, I shamefully admit. And one must not forget Patrick Moraz’s very entertaining work, The Story Of I. There is plenty to argue about, to be sure. I will say that for me, the choice is obvious. Chris Squire’s Fish Out Of Water surpasses all of the others, in its songwriting, vocals, the choice of sidemen, and its kinship with the sound and more importantly, the soul of Yes.

:rant:

Not one mention of the dozens of Extra-Yes solo work of Bruford! Someone needs to wake Mr. Karr up!

Purple Wolfhound

12-08-2005, 11:05 PM

Tardis made a game thread about "man-made vs natural."

Not to take anything away from Diane (thanks to her for keeping it going!) but yours truly originated that thread some time ago, new. Some of these things get left off the third or fourth generation on, though.

Besides that, a great thread you've initiated here! I haven't had time to read through all the posts, but I've enjoyed what I've read so far. Bruford is definitely in my top five favourite percussionists of all time and I've pretty much followed his work since his beginning days with Yes. I've seen him in concert four times: twice with King Crimson (1974 and 1984), once with Genesis and once with Yes (Union) and hope to one day see him with Earthworks. Love the music he's been playing with them!

AllGoodPeephole

12-09-2005, 12:06 AM

I've seen him in concert four times: twice with King Crimson (1974 and 1984), once with Genesis and once with Yes (Union) and hope to one day see him with Earthworks. Love the music he's been playing with them!
Ah, you saw him on the KC Starless tour too, huh? Good show! Saw that show at the Kennedy Center in Wash DC. All that percussion work he was doing. Terrific!

AllGoodPeephole

12-09-2005, 07:52 PM

Watching Rush's R30 DVD with some archival interviews with the band and during a couple of late 70's interviews there are a lot of references to Yes and Bruford. In '78 Geddy is asked what he's currently listening to, and he responds with Bill Bruford's new band and how they're incredible and all that. Neil talks about seeing UK (with Bill) in Toronto or something. And all the Yes concerts they went to.

Pretty interesting but comes to no surprise to me on how the infuences in their music show.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

12-10-2005, 09:42 AM

Not to take anything away from Diane (thanks to her for keeping it going!) but yours truly originated that thread some time ago, new. Some of these things get left off the third or fourth generation on, though.

Besides that, a great thread you've initiated here!

Ooops I'm newer here, and don't know Diane too well... :winknudge

But one of the first things I DID notice is that there wasn't one Bruford thread when I joined. I knew someone had been to busy to talk about him specifically.

Hed G.

12-11-2005, 01:50 AM

Let's get it back on topic!

Hot Bruford Track of the Day:
Dancing on Frith Street from the second Earthworks album, "Dig?".
Nothing I can write would do this track justice; give it a spin and
relish the intensity master B. can muster.

AllGoodPeephole

12-18-2005, 06:55 PM

Now it's my turn!

HOT BRUFORD TRACK OF THE DAY:

Some Other Time off the If Summer Had It's Ghosts. Just heard this recently and it just wipe me out! One of Bills best solos in my book. Nothing but drums turning his snare off and keeping in tom mode. He just goes all over the set doing singles, doubles and flam-paradiddles while keeping his high-hat in perfect synch.

Beautiful!

Hugh Shiebler

12-21-2005, 12:14 AM

Hot track of the day...

http://www.boltfolio.com/portfolio/video/permalink.jsp?contentId=5730&membername=howster

Buglunch

12-21-2005, 02:41 AM

He's just a cool dude on the go, maaaaaan! Great video, preachin' to the choir, yay.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

12-21-2005, 09:01 AM

Hot track of the day...

http://www.boltfolio.com/portfolio/video/permalink.jsp?contentId=5730&membername=howster

Woah yea! Righteous! Is that the Beat tour? Nice sports coats!

Hugh Shiebler

12-21-2005, 11:42 PM

Yes, I believe that is from 1982.

There is a very interesting interview with Bruford from 1992 over at projekction.net:

http://www.projekction.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2725

BM: So I guess it’s no surprise, then, that in 1972 you jumped ship. You left Yes to go over to King Crimson. Was that because you were dissatisfied with Yes and you wanted to explore –

BB: No, I was very satisfied.

BM: Really?

BB: I was satisfied. But I wanted to do something else. I couldn’t imagine doing all that again. I just seemed, you know, like I’d been in the one band forever – and it was only four years, for God’s sake. And I didn’t want to go up and down the English highway system any more. And I wanted to play with other people who looked at music differently, you know. I wasn’t going to sit in another rehearsal room again and argue with Chris Squire about if something should be an F sharp or if it should be an F.

BM: [laughs] The linter notes to the King Crimson box set [Frame By Frame] say that you left to join King Crimson because “Robert is the only person I would have left for.” What was it about Robert Fripp that seemed so appealing to you?

BB: Well, he was offering…the other group in England that was much better than Yes was King Crimson. They had more success than Yes. And was considerably more popular. It had already had a platinum album by the time Yes had recorded The Yes Album. King Crimson seemed like a much more instrumental band and a band that seemed much more grown up in that it didn’t have to go through this agonizing music-making process.

BM: One of the things you reportedly said at the time was that you wanted to leave Yes to grow musically. You wanted to reach more maturity. Do you think that King Crimson was the best choice, then, that enabled you to grow musically?

BB: Oh yeah.

BM: Really?

BB: Sure. Yeah, I was perfect for King Crimson and very loyal to the band and I’ve always enjoyed being in it although it’s hard work at times.

Buglunch

12-22-2005, 06:38 AM

My bandleader at practise last night had an old Canadian Musician mag with a bit on Bruford in an article on unusual drummers.
\o/
Not much new, good to see him in there.

I bought Beat this summer, now I need 3 of a...

new_sum_do_solve_ay

12-22-2005, 09:08 AM

Hugh Shiebler

01-02-2006, 08:25 PM

Ooops! Actually, anyone can register, but here ya go anyway, with Part One:

Good afternoon,

My interviews with drummer extraordinaire Bill Bruford were among the first, and still remain among my favorites – not necessarily because of what he said per se. Rather, because of how he said it. He was intense and serious. My impression of Bill at that time was that he was cynical, somewhat bitter. Perhaps some would say angry. Of course, his demeanor could have been an affectation for my benefit. Or that could have been his natural personality. I don't know. But he seemed to have obvious disdain for my project (writing a book about progressive rock) and for the music industry in general. But, at all times, he was extremely articulate and thoughtful. I appreciated his candor.

This is Part One of my first interview with Mr. Bruford. It was conducted on November 14, 1992. I called him at his home in England and spoke for about an hour.

Please keep in mind that I only caught a moment in time with this man and we’re looking back on it some 13 years later. The ‘80s King Crimson was nearly 10 years past. The ‘90s King Crimson was still just a gleam in Robert’s eye. It was an in-between time for Crims. In addition, Yes had just toured behind their Union album and Bruford was part of that tour. After the tour, Yes continued on, but Bruford opted not to be part of it. All of those circumstances became questions for me to ask him.

What I got was Bill Bruford extemporaneously venting what I saw as frustrations with the music industry, but also professing his love for jazz. Perhaps, he was also a little hurt because, at that time, Fripp had not asked him to be in the ‘90s Crimson. And, as you'll see toward the end of my inteview, he seemed to be extremely proud of his work with the Crims.

What is he like today? I don't know. Chances are, since my interviews, Bill has mellowed with age and is a happier guy. One can only hope so.

Feel free to circulate this interview as you see fit, quoting from it liberally. I only ask that you include the following attribution when you do so: © 1992, 2005 Bill Murphy (www.purplecrayondirect.com). Thanks!

BM: Hi, is this Bill?

BB: Yeah.

BM: I appreciate you taking some time this evening for me.

BB: That’s all right. I forgot what we’re talking about, Bill. Remind me again.

BM: This is a book I’m putting together on progressive rock, art rock, classical rock, what-have-you and –

BB: Oh, God. Good luck to ya.

BM: [laughs] Yeah. It’s quite a big topic, I must say. But you seem to play a large role in it, though, so that’s why I’m giving you a call.

BB: What can I do for you?

BM: Well, I have a pretty good question to start with: I’ve heard that King Crimson is reforming and that Yes is still together, but a notable exception is that you’re not in either one. Why is that?

BB: [laughs] Well, because I would rather, if I could, look forward than look back if possible.

BM: Uh-huh.

BB: I can only look back insofar as it affords me financially the wherewithal to look forward.

BM: I see.

BB: When I grew up, of course, record companies had some interest in encouraging the future. They invested some of their profits in what we call research and development, investment for new music. Now, of course, they don’t do that. They just operate on the back catalog side, you know, turning what they have into ever increasing profits.

BM: Uh-huh.

BB: That would be Yes and King Crimson and so forth, without breaking any new territory. So it’s up to the musicians to provide the future however they can. So inasmuch as you will ever find me associating with anything from the past, it is only to get money to finance the future.

BM: Ahhh. It seems kind of strange that you cast your lot with Robert Fripp at other times before but you turned him down this time. I guess that’s –

BB: Well, well you’re jumping lots of guns.

BM: [laughs] What do you mean?

BB: First of all, the last gig…I still consider I’m in King Crimson.

BM: Really?

BB: The last gig I had was in 1984 and I’m still waiting for the phone to ring.

BM: Oh.

BB: I consider it most unlikely that the phone will ring because I’m quite sure Robert will have some other band in mind.

BM: Hmm.

BB: So you’re all going far too fast.

BM: Ahh. I just assumed…well, I was talking with Tony Arnold last month and I guess he said that Tony Levin and Adrian Belew were back with this new incarnation –

BB: Yeah, well you see, you have to understand that Robert and I are probably not the most compatible people.

BM: Oh, really?

BB: And Robert likes to control things the way they are and that’s fine. So it’s really better that if I have any idea of how music should go that I should form my own band and work in what I perceive to be a better field, a field that’s more suitable for me.

BM: Hmm.

BB: So that’s what I do and I’m now more in the so-called jazz department.

BM: Yup. And let’s start with that. Tell me about Earthworks. Your last album (All Heaven Broke Loose) came out in 1991. Do you plan to put out another one shortly?

BB: Yeah, hopefully so. It’s – what can I tell you about Earthworks? – it’s different from rock.

BM: Yeah.

BB: There are lots of things that are different about jazz from rock, not the least of which is the music. But lots of other ancillary things, too: The purpose of the music and why the musicians do it and the fact that you’re not going to make a living at it, obviously, because it’s called jazz and the fact that you make large portions of it up as you go along, and that it’s not just perceived as an entertainment and all kinds of other things.

BM: Right.

BB: So it’s quite different. And there are lots of things about it that I like and lots that are disadvantageous. But nonetheless it’s where I feel I can express what it is that I want to do on a musical instrument. And, therefore, people like me were squeezed out of rock into what you would call the peripheral musics around it, be it classical music or art music or some sort of experimental music or jazz – these are all the musics from which rock gets its material – but at times it includes musicians from those peripheral musics, when it’s feeling generous and when the economy is…when the dollar is strong and when the economy is big.

BM: Sure. I can see that.

BB: But in a recession those people get squeezed out, of course, because there’s not enough money to pay for them. All this has to do with finance. Practically everything you know about music has to do with money.

BM: I’m finding that out. Especially when it’s called progressive rock these days. Many bands have had to start their own labels and distribute their music themselves, independently, because major labels don’t want anything to do with it.

BB: Almost anything, anything whatsoever to do with music has to do with money – be it the church’s support of, you know, Beethoven or Jimi Hendrix or anything else. It’s all to do with money. What you hear is the result of somebody being paid or not being paid.

BM: Well, tell me about Earthworks. You’ve made three albums so far. Do you have a favorite of those three? Or are they all just –

BB: What you hear is a work in progress, Earthworks. It continues. Yes, I do, but if you ask any musician what his favorite album is and he’ll say his last album.

BM: And is that what you would say in this case, too?

BB: It’s what I would say in this case, too. Yes. It’s the loosest of the three, which I like, myself, personally. The best seller was the first one. But that, again, had nothing to do with the music on the record. That had everything to do with the number of people trying to sell it.

BM: [laughs] You sound like you have a very pragmatic view of the music business.

BB: Well, I assure you I do. And, of course, you would too if you were trying to live in it.

BM: Yeah. [laughs]

BB: If you were trying to live in it you better understand that you’d have to have a very pragmatic view, immediately. Otherwise, you won’t last more than ten minutes.

BM: [laughs]

BB: So my favorite album, I think, is All Heaven Broke Loose. But that’s because the band is beginning to find its voice and, you know, it’s like a long, slow process. It’s a bit like maturing wine or something. It takes a while. And, of course, everything that people want these days has to be done in five minutes or else it’s no good.

BM: Sure. I understand. It has to sell big or forget it.

BB: You either sell big like Madonna or Genesis or you don’t exist. That’s the way things currently are. But, nonetheless, people like me, of course, refuse to go away. So we form bands like Earthworks and watch them slowly grow better, which is lovely.

BM: Well, it kind of amazes –

BB: Sort of like gardening.

BM: [laughs] Yeah. A long, slow methodical process, eh?

BB: Yeah.

BM: Well, it amazes me that you say people like you get squeezed out and all that because you’re considered, from what I understand, to be one of the best drummers in the world. You know, why would somebody of your stature be squeezed out of the business?

BB: [sharply] You don’t understand?

BM: [laughs] Because you like to play music that doesn’t make a quick buck, is that it?

BB: Of course, yes. Yes, I mean, being one of the best drummers in the world – whether I am or not has nothing to do with anything. That has to do with being voted so by other drummers. They don’t pay for anything.

BM: [laughs]

BB: The people who pay are called record companies and they are not interested in whether you’re the best violinist in town or not. They want to know whether you can get a hit. Or whether you can sell records.

BM: Hmm.

BB: So this has really nothing whatsoever to do with your ability as a musician. It has everything to do with whether or not you will provide some music for the company that they will promote. If you do, they’ll promote it and all will become self-fulfilling. If you don’t, you are squeezed out, which is inevitable. Robert Fripp, for example, would have essentially no voice at all were it not for the bigger item King Crimson that could be occasionally wielded in his favor. But even that is becoming marginal in the very difficult times. So you would find that his other work, which I’m not sure what it is, but it might be Sunday All Over the World or Guitar Mechanics or whatever. It’s going to find its own very small level. There is nothing else it can do because the system is set up that it cannot come from nowhere. It’s out of the question.

BM: Well, I understand that before you joined Yes you were – you know, in the late Sixties – you were considered a jazz man to the core. It seems you’ve come full circle.

BB: Well, in a way, that’s right. In a way that’s right. I thought Yes was going to be a jazz group, you know. I mean, I didn’t know anything about jazz, really. All I knew was I wanted to play. And I was eighteen years old. So you know I knew nothing.

BM: [laughs]

BB: And I just played with the first people I could find and they happened to be pretty much Chris Squire and Jon Anderson and whomever. And, you know, you do whatever you’re gonna do. I didn’t think, “Oh God. This isn’t jazz. I’m going to go play what I think is jazz.” I didn’t work that way, you know. The jazz I grew up with was, on the whole, Black American jazz. You know, Elvin Jones and Max and Tony Williams and all the great American drummers. No the London jazz scene of 1968 – which was, by that stage, very introspective and very antagonistic. Very politically based and generally a thoroughly obnoxious place to be.

BM: [laughs]

BB: And if you were eighteen and you played the drum set, where you wanted to be was with Jimi Hendrix where it was all happening. You didn’t really want to be in the London jazz scene. Now, of course, it’s the exact opposite. If you’re 18 it’s much more exciting to play in the London jazz scene that it is to try to play with – I don’t know who can you try to play with? – Sade or someone?

BM: [laughs]

BB: You know, there aren’t any rock groups around that are anywhere near as exciting as modern London jazz. So it’s the exactly opposite, really.

BM: I have a two-pronged question: First, what appeals to you about playing jazz? And, second, how does that style of playing differ from playing in a so-called progressive rock band?

BB: Well, what I suppose I like about jazz is that I don’t exactly know what’s happening.

BM: Ahh.

BB: Which is great. With almost every other style of music you know immediately. You know what’s going to happen in the next five minutes and you know what’s going to happen in the next ten minutes. Particularly if you play the Brahm’s Concerto which has one cymbal roll in it. Or you’re playing in a rock group where you know exactly what’s going to happen three minutes down the road. And it must happen otherwise you’re fired.

BM: [laughs]

BB: That kind of thing we had tried to steer away form in all the groups I’ve been in, namely Yes and King Crimson. Of course, I was one of the people agitating that should not be the case and that there should be an element of flexibility and doubt about the whole thing. What I was swaying, I suppose, when I was saying all these things is, really, “let’s play jazz.” That’s what I was saying, I guess. I didn’t really realize it. But, of course, I have no doubt to rock musicians that’s extremely irritating. And, obviously, that causes upset in places like Yes, which is why I went to King Crimson. Which is where Robert instinctively understood all that.

BM: Whom do you admire, then, when it comes to drummers? Do you have anybody currently that you really this is great, or anybody from the past you think is great?

BB: Well, there are hundreds of drummers that are great. But I don’t really like to give a list of names…but there are lots of people. But they may or not may not successful. And they may or may not – well, they probably won’t be successful, actually, because they’ve got too many good ideas.

BM: [laughs]

BB: So, it’s an exciting scene I think. You know, it’s a matter of whether you’re looking at the older drummers or the younger drummers. Drumming has coming a long way since I started. In 25 years it’s come a long way.

BM: And that’s a good point for the next question, I guess. In the Yesyears video, you demonstrated all the new electronic drum sounds and things you could play and you looked like a kid in a candy store, like you were having a great time with all of these new technical things. What effect do you think electronic drums are going to have on, say, jazz or progressive rock or whatever.

BB: Well, it’s slow. I mean, I thought I would form Earthworks partly to demonstrate a more serious use of electronic percussion. To prove that, you know, you don’t have to just be Depeche Mode or be a kid to use electronic percussion. It had become a serious kind of tool for the improviser. And I think Earthworks demonstrates that. But, unfortunately, I seem to be the only guy who’s kind of doing it. And part of the reason for that is that the instruments are too expensive.

BM: Yeah.

BB: I told you everything to do with music has to do with money.

BM: [laughs]

BB: The reason Earthworks exists is that I can afford for it to exist. It’s basically a labor of love with very specialist and custom instruments that require a lot of programming and a lot of thought and they’re not mass-market instruments. Therefore, they’re very expensive. And, regrettably, I had hoped that everybody would buy the instruments that I have and the whole world would be playing this expensive electronic drum [equipment] by now. That did not occur. So I seem to be about the only guy left still doing that. And the bottom line has more effectively fallen out of live electronic drum playing. It is, of course, available in studios in the shape of computers – where nearly all the recorded music you hear these days is, of course, in an instrument computer.

BM: I saw you on the Yes Union tour in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

BB: Oh yes.

BM: You and Alan White seemed to be enjoying playing off each other’s different styles. What did you think of that tour? And did you see any ego problems with any of the band members having that many people on stage at one time?

BB: Well, it was what it was, really. It was a kind of genial party. It was like a frat house reunion type of thing. It was quite fun and I was invited along and there’s no point in being surly about it. It was fun and everybody loves being paid lots of money for lots of people to get all misty-eyed and dewy-eyed about the past and the way things used to be.

BM: [laughs]

BB: And, of course, things weren’t great, you know. But that’s how people like to see it and they pay $20 or $40 for that privilege. And God bless them. I can use the money. But I’m not going to use it recreating another type of Yes or another type of so-called progressive group because that’s not a meaningful term to me in any sense. It has never meant anything to me and it never did when anybody started talking about it and it doesn’t mean anything to me now. So the Yes reunion tour was fun and I’m grateful to have been asked and I don’t think I’ll do it again in a hurry.

BM: [laughs]

BB: I felt like a fish out of water. You know, my style has changed a lot and what I did in the group…put it this way: Alan White did what I did, only he did it five times louder.

BM: [laughs]

BB: And that left me just playing kind of percussion to his drum set. Which is okay. But, again, as I say, three or four months of that is fine. And then I better get back to what I was doing.

BM: Chris Squire seems to be one of the better bass players in the world. But he seems to know it, too. He looks like he’s got a big ego. Is he difficult to work with? Or is he a better guy to get along with than he appears to be?

BB: Well, he’s, yeah, a good musician. It’s not hard to get along with him when you’re just playing already written and conceived music. When you’re just playing for a tour that’s very easy. The much harder thing is to decide what kind of music you want to play in the first place. And that, of course, I was not asked to do. So that was not a problem. We weren’t existing on a creating music level. We were just existing on a reproduction level. So that’s fine. A very pleasant guy. Say hello in the morning, get up and play the music and then go to bed at night. It’s not hard. Not difficult at all. Not nearly as difficult as cooperating creatively with people, which happens on a minute, second-by-second basis in a live jazz group that is playing together, and effectively.

BM: You mention the progressive rock term is one that you don’t like or that it means virtually nothing to you. Did you consider Yes and King Crimson to be progressive rock? Did you call yourself that at the time? Or where did –

BB: You have to understand that musicians don’t go around calling themselves anything.

BM: Really?

BB: The record company goes around calling you something so that it can sell you – you know, which you’ve asked it to do. So, I mean, the term they found was progressive rock. They could have called it Chinese music, for all I care. It doesn’t mean anything to me. To me, what means something to me is what I’m playing and are the other people enjoying it and does it feel fresh and is it what everybody else has done or has it got a new angle to it. I consider that I’m trying to make a contribution, if you like, to my instrument and the way people conduct themselves on what we call the drum set in the late 20th century. And my job is to come up with ideas about how you can play this thing called a drum set. That’s what they pay me for.

BM: [laughs]

BB: And I, therefore, try naturally to fall into groups where that is possible and where the other musicians on their instruments are doing a similar thing. So King Crimson would be, in the ‘80s, a very good example of that -- or in the ‘70s, for that matter -- where people are changing the way you look at what you do on your instrument and the styles in which you could be playing and what’s possible. So, you know, whether it’s called Chinese or progressive or regressive or demented or Communist I don’t care. It’s just what I do in music. Right now it’s called jazz. I couldn’t care less about that, either.

BM: [laughs]

BB: You see what I mean? It’s not the musicians that change. It is the playing field on which you are asked to play. It is the record company nomenclature that changes. I mean, they have you believe now that jazz is – oh God, I don’t know – that jazz is Larry Carlton and George Benson. You know, but these were rock or B&B guys when I grew up. So they haven’t changed. They do the same things. But what’s changed is radio stations and record companies. They’ve changed. So progressive is a meaningless term. And for me to form a progressive group is stupid because what I do on an instrument is go forward with it. I don’t go backwards.

BM: Okay. Leaving the definition of progressive rock aside, what type of music was being played by groups such as Yes or King Crimson or Genesis back in those days?

BB: Some of it was very good, some of it was very bad, some of it was very slow, some of it was very fast –

BM: But where did it come from? Where did all of the time changes come from or the weird –

BB: Oh, it’s stolen from everywhere, same as it’s always stolen from everywhere.

BM: Really?

BB: The time signatures came from some classical stuff, you know, the strange discontinuity of it as distinct from having a 2/4 backbeat. A lot of that was classical, you know. It came from misguided attempts to be fresh with things. It came from synthesizers, which had just been invented. It came from everywhere. It came from – you could get all socialistic about it and you could describe it as the English music scene, which had a lot to do with this type of music you’re talking about. And how a group like Yes was, as many of these groups were, comprised of many different people, some of whom had musical training and some of whom didn’t. Some of whom like jazz and some of whom like R&B and some of whom like classical music and some of whom didn’t know anything about anything.

BM:[laughs]

BB: And this mishmash led to sort of an attempt to do something more with pop music than just play three chords. A lot of people hated it. A lot of people still hate it. Particularly the people who are the kind of people who like three-chord music. They hate it when new guys come along with a fourth or a fifth chord.

BM: Yeah. Let me ask you something about that early Yes period, then I’ll jump up a bit and get back to the present time. Let’s start with the first two Yes albums. The band seemed to be going along okay, fairly ho-hum, nothing special – until you get to that third album [The Yes Album]. What caused the distinct break between the third album and its predecessors? Was it producer Eddie Offord? Steve Howe? I mean, what caused you guys to all of a sudden sound completely different from the way you did before that album?

BB: Well, I don’t know because I didn’t really think we did sound that different. You think the third album’s so different from the second one?

BM: Oh yeah. You had stuff like “Something’s Coming” and “Every Little Thing” and, then all of a sudden you get “Starship Trooper” and “Long Distance Runaround.”

BB: Well, I suppose you’ve answered the question in that they’re original compositions.

BM: Ahh.

BB: I suppose up until the end of the second album or certainly half way through the second album the band was a cover band. It started off doing versions of other people’s songs. Long-winded versions.

BM: [laughs]

BB: Large sections of the 1812 overture stuck in the middle. And it did stuff by Vanilla Fudge and the Fifth Dimension and all that. And I suppose, gradually we thought we would write our own music and I suppose we tried to do that. That must have been the difference.

BM: What was your contribution when you were a member of Yes years? I mean, for instance, you’re credited with songwriting credit on “Heart of the Sunrise.” What did you actually do in that song? Were you telling the other guys to play certain chords? Or was your job to –

BB: Trying to. Yeah, I was suggesting riffs and I’d walk over to the piano and bang out a riff and say, “Why don‘t we stick this here and then we can play it backwards and then why don’t we put that over here” and we were all just fighting and screaming in the rehearsal room. And the guys with the biggest muscles usually won. It was horrible. I mean, it was one of the most uncomfortable times. It was so boring, you know. And so slow. And it would take forever because nobody had any music and nobody could sight read anything and nobody had anything prepared. So somebody would hum a tune and somebody would say “That’s terrible, let’s play this” and then there’d be an argument and then very slowly something would begin to emerge.

BM: So I guess it’s no surprise, then, that in 1972 you jumped ship. You left Yes to go over to King Crimson. Was that because you were dissatisfied with Yes and you wanted to explore –

BB: No, I was very satisfied.

BM: Really?

BB: I was satisfied. But I wanted to do something else. I couldn’t imagine doing all that again. I just seemed, you know, like I’d been in the one band forever – and it was only four years, for God’s sake. And I didn’t want to go up and down the English highway system any more. And I wanted to play with other people who looked at music differently, you know. I wasn’t going to sit in another rehearsal room again and argue with Chris Squire about if something should be an F sharp or if it should be an F.

BM: [laughs] The linter notes to the King Crimson box set [Frame By Frame] say that you left to join King Crimson because “Robert is the only person I would have left for.” What was it about Robert Fripp that seemed so appealing to you?

BB: Well, he was offering…the other group in England that was much better than Yes was King Crimson. They had more success than Yes. And was considerably more popular. It had already had a platinum album by the time Yes had recorded The Yes Album. King Crimson seemed like a much more instrumental band and a band that seemed much more grown up in that it didn’t have to go through this agonizing music-making process.

BM: One of the things you reportedly said at the time was that you wanted to leave Yes to grow musically. You wanted to reach more maturity. Do you think that King Crimson was the best choice, then, that enabled you to grow musically?

BB: Oh yeah.

BM: Really?

BB: Sure. Yeah, I was perfect for King Crimson and very loyal to the band and I’ve always enjoyed being in it although it’s hard work at times.

That's probably 3/4 of my first interview with Mr. B. In Part Two, I asked Bill more specific questions about his work with King Crimson and his working relationship with Robert Fripp. As you might expect, his answers were nothing less than fascinating.

Hugh Shiebler

01-02-2006, 08:28 PM

And for those who just can't get enough of Bruford talking:

Over at the Voiceprint website, you can hear an interview with Bill Bruford. If I remember correctly, the contents of this broadcast is the same as the demo discs that were sent out with the recent BB re-issues, so if you haven't got one of those you can listen for free. In the broadcast, Bill talks about his solo albums and is a great way to waste 45 minutes."

Direct link:
http://www.voiceprint.co.uk/w"ebradio/bb01-32k.ram

Hugh Shiebler

01-02-2006, 08:33 PM

AllGoodPeephole

01-02-2006, 08:34 PM

I went and joined that forum just to check out the interview. Great interview. Haven't posted there yet.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

01-04-2006, 09:13 AM

Today's Bruford Track:

Thud: Anyone for Jazz? This is on the Earthworks CD. It's the opening song. It jumps right out and makes you feel like dancing. Hard to describe the rhythm, but it's highly syncopated. What really stands out for me as I listen to it again is the raging solo on keys in the middle. I was listening last night and all of a sudden it occured to me how much this sounds like a Wakeman solo! Not the tonal quality, but the fast movement and high pitch sounds a lot like Wakey. Very bouncy tune and lots of fun!

Hed G.

01-04-2006, 08:22 PM

Last one (and best!!)

Here is an incredible video clip from 1978, of an early version of "Bruford" (the band) with Allan Holdsworth, Dave Stewart, and Annette Peacock on vocals...

http://www.johnzguitar.com/BrufordAllanSolo.wmv

Theres a DVD available on ebay including this clip and lotsa great stuff!

http://cgi.ebay.com/BILL-BRUFORD-King-Crimson-Live-OXFORD-1979-2h-DVD_W0QQitemZ6470833015QQcategoryZ617QQssPageNameZ WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It's well worth the price!

new_sum_do_solve_ay

01-05-2006, 01:10 PM

Good post! I think I'm gonna buy it.

1. ONE OF A KIND
2. BEELZEBUB
3. THE SAHARA OF SNOW
4. FOREVER UNTIL SUNDAY
5. BACK TO THE BEGINNING
6. GOODBYE TO THE PAST
7. FIVE G

I don't know if I've heard 'back to the beginning' before. How is it?

Hed G.

01-05-2006, 09:07 PM

Good post! I think I'm gonna buy it.

I don't know if I've heard 'back to the beginning' before. How is it?

It's a good track! But the best parts on this DVD are the Crimson extras!

AllGoodPeephole

01-05-2006, 10:16 PM

It's a good track! But the best parts on this DVD are the Crimson extras!
It does look good Hed. Thanks for the tip.

I remember back in '82 or '83 when the USA network on cable in its infancy had a late night show called Night Flight consisting of concert clips, early videos and short films. They had a great segment of footage of KC during the Wetton/Bruford era performing on a soundstage or in a studio. Anybody ever seen this?

Hed G.

01-06-2006, 06:26 AM

If it's the one I think it is (they're doing "Easy Money"?)
it was filmed live at Central Park on 25th June 1973
and it's on that DVD as well!

Buglunch

01-16-2006, 11:02 PM

Shame, that's one of my least-favourite Crimson songs.

But the Bruford interview stuff here has been unbelievably good. That .wmv clip is great.

allpurechance

01-17-2006, 04:34 AM

It does look good Hed. Thanks for the tip.

I remember back in '82 or '83 when the USA network on cable in its infancy had a late night show called Night Flight consisting of concert clips, early videos and short films. They had a great segment of footage of KC during the Wetton/Bruford era performing on a soundstage or in a studio. Anybody ever seen this?

I believe I saw brief moments of this.

If we are thinking of the same clip, the one I saw also featured Jamie Muir.

Which in my mind at least, makes it all that much more remarkable!

That old NightFlight show was, and may still be the best thing ever to appear on USA Network.

Hed G.

01-17-2006, 05:49 AM

The Jamie muir clip is an earlier one, made at the BeatClub
TV studios in Bremen. And it's on that DVD too! They do the
first half of Lark's Tongues part 1. This dvd is a must for
Bruford fans.

Hugh Shiebler

01-17-2006, 08:30 PM

New releases by Bill Bruford slated for February!!

Bill Bruford will be releasing two exciting new projects sometime in February. “Earthwork’s Underground Orchestra – Live in NYC” promises a little big-band jazz approach to Earthworks classics. The second project will be a Dual Disc by the “World Drummers Ensemble” featuring Bill and three other acknowledged percussion masters.

The Earthworks Underground Orchestra features multi-talented reedsman Tim Garland from Earthworks. Garland organized the Dean Street Underground Orchestra, the cream of London players, for regular monthly performances at the Dean Street Pizza Express Jazz Club where Earthworks "Footloose and Fancy Free" was recorded. It was only a matter of time for this group to merge with the intricate and idiosyncratic nature of Bill’s Earthworks quartet. Saxophonist Iain Ballamy, a founding member of Earthworks back in 1987, has performed and contributed arrangements and the music is taken from right across the band's repertoire up to and including the current Earthworks CD “Random Acts of Happiness”. A New York edition of the band was created especially for an exclusive 6 night run at the Iridium Jazz Club, December 7-12, 2004. This was recorded for the new CD, with limited edition 2-track bonus CD, for release on Summerfold Records.

The World Drummers Ensemble consists of four global percussion masters coming together in a highly charged musical exchange. The players consist of Doudou N’Diaye Rose (Senagalese master of the sabar), Chad Wackerman (Frank Zappa, Allan Holdsworth), Grammy winner Luis Conte (Madonna, Michael Jackson) and Bill Bruford (Yes, King Crimson, Earthworks). The music includes original pieces by all members of the band and includes a re-working of King Crimson’s “B’Boom”. The Dual Disc contains over an hour of music and 15 minutes of video.

For more information, including preorders, on these and other upcoming Bill Bruford projects, visit the news section on Bill’s website listed below.

The News Link:

http://www.krimson-news.com/index.shtml

Hed G.

01-18-2006, 05:09 AM

good news! incidentally, Luis Conte also plays percussion for Phil Collins!

YesForSure.

01-18-2006, 12:24 PM

Hed G.

01-23-2006, 05:58 PM

Hot Bruford Track Of The Day:

Hell's Bells from the live album "The Bruford Tapes".
This rendition kicks a$$ so furiously, the studio version
seems like a kid's TV show theme in comparison!

Hed G.

03-18-2006, 09:06 PM

I'm resurrecting this thread, just to appease new_sum_do_solve_ay,
who is convinced there's an anti-Bruford conspiracy at Yesfans.
I would also like to appologize for "killing" it 2 months ago with my
boring posts. Or did it just drop dead of neglect?