What's right/wrong with Talk?

[Q]

Let's give equal time to the different versions of Yes!

There's another thread called What's Right/Wrong with Tales, which was created in response to a post by illusion (stating a belief that Tales could have been better). I'm a little baffled that a discussion of the pros and cons of an album might be seen as impolite or out-of-bounds, but even so that thread is now in the Flame Pit.

I think Tales is terrific, but just to avoid misunderstanding, I thought it would be a good idea to do a pro/con discussion on the other side of the Trooper/YesWest fence.

So what's right/wrong with Talk?

My own view is that Talk is the YesWest doppleganger of Going For the One - but that it is flawed by way of "Walls," a song that really has none of what Alan White called "Yes stamps."

But that's just my opinion ... I could be wrong!

[nightliner]

Looking for another fight, eh Q?;)

I agree with your assessment however. It is not a perfect album, but its the best of the Rabin era Yes. Endless Dream is a classic Yes epic in the vein of Awaken and CTTE.

[Q]

What do people think of "Walls" and "State of Play?"

These, to me, seem to (somewhat) validate Steve Howe's criticism that Talk is not "Yes-ish" ... those two songs don't seem like Yes songs ...

Agree or disagree?

[nightliner]

Agreed.

I think they did Walls so they would have something short to play on Letterman.

[Neverthirst]

Originally posted by Quantum
Let's give equal time to the different versions of Yes!

...

So what's right/wrong with Talk?

OH JOY, Q! It just had to be TALK to even the par, didn't it! What a sweetie you are!

okay...

WALLS is a great tune ... but not by YES standards. It doesn't hold up, and it lessens the musical credibilty of the album as a whole. I happen to like the song just fine ... but it does not compete with the quality of the others.

WHERE WILL YOU BE is a great song. But is out of place. It is not stylistically congruent with the rest of the album.

I see the potential for a very interesting theme that could have made the album more of a complete interconnected work. It could have been an integrated masterpiece.

[Q]

In the Parallels: Going For the One and Talk thread, I have made the point that Talk is close to a mirror image of GFT1, configuration-wise. If "Walls" and "State of Play" were dropped, it would be pretty much identical in configuration.

(I agree, NT, that "Walls" and "State of Play" are exceptional songs, though "un-Yessish" ... "State of Play" has really innovative guitar work so I am more interested in it than "Walls" ...)

I lift "Where Will You Be" to full Yes status because there's so much of Jon in it ... I feel that Talk has more Jon that any other YesWest album, and "Where Will You Be" seems to be mostly Jon ...

[Q]

As a side note: Jon's lyrics on Talk were the best batch of Yes lyrics he'd done since GFT1 (though ABWH had some great stuff ...)

[Jackaranda]

Talk is a great album, to me anyway, and, along with Yessongs, Relayer and Going for the One, one of my favorite Yes albums.

There really isn't a track I don't really love. Endless Dream is the best piece of work, by far, of the Rabin era, and that's saying a lot.

Talk had many factors working against it, which I've discussed at length on other threads. It was really disheartening that such a great album was so maligned by fans and critics alike...Jack

[Q]

Jack, your remark causes me to reflect - sadly - on the common complaint among fans, that critics and the music press in general is unreceptive to prog rock.

What makes me sad is that the same fans who complain about the critics can be even harsher and more cruel in their criticisms of whatever Yes music is not their favorite.

There is a certain karma factor operating there. It is unfortunate.

The critics laugh at prog rock but the unpleasant fact is that they laugh even harder at us. In some cases, we deserve it.

Love to all,
Q

[Jackaranda]

Well said Q.

Things tend to go in cycles, and I believe someday progressive rock will make some sort of comeback, and only then will Yes be fully appreciated.

But their own fans! The critics DID have the last laugh, because Yes' own fan base turned on them when Talk was released.

Oh well, I'm being redundant. Progressive rock, properly defined, means moving forward and breaking new ground. Talk did that, but then Yes REGRESSED and went backwards fast. They still haven't recovered. Let's hope the new-old line-up can come up with something great next time around...Jack

[Faceintheplace]

The album has some strong songs, but the main problems were that Yes couldn't get arrested back in 1994 (the height of Grunge, DanceTechno and Alternative, plus the beginnings of the revival of hip hop and rap), and to quote Chris, "A bit too much attention payed to gadgets of time like the DX-12 Discombobulator." My Dad loves this album to death and he still laughed when I told him that.