That, That Is

[movedfast]

I never used to rate "That, That Is". But I've been playing it a lot in my car lately. Having new car with CD player helps !
Is it just me, or is this actually a damn fine Yes Song ? One that repays repeated plays and would be great live ? Very satisfying to listen to over its entire duration, great playing, great vocals, great melodies and structures.
Can't get the damn thing out of my head. How did heaven begin

[webbcity]

I never used to rate "That, That Is". But I've been playing it a lot in my car lately. Having new car with CD player helps !
Is it just me, or is this actually a damn fine Yes Song ? One that repays repeated plays and would be great live ? Very satisfying to listen to over its entire duration, great playing, great vocals, great melodies and structures.
Can't get the damn thing out of my head. How did heaven begin
This one gets overlooked too often. In my opinion this is by far the best tune on either Keys I or II.

[webbcity]

In fact, thank you for reminding me of this! I have the sudden urge to play it now. Must remember to pick it up when I stop in at home for 10 minutes later! :headset:

[ANTIOCH]

Great song on a padded 'live' release. It kinda got lost in it all; but the "Keystudio" release would be a fine CD to own . . . !?

[Albedo]

I actually just bought KeyStudio, and this seems like one of the best songs, but I haven't got to listen very close yet.

[Bugeyes]

I have KeyStudio. Togetherness' instumental is so soothing, but the rapture of Crossfire grates me with too much anguish. Then with the Giving Things calms it back down with That Is bringing it back to fantasy and continues with fantasy well from there.

I enjoy it especially because Jon's feelings are very well conveyed. It's a damn fine Yes Song.

[Symbol]

I love it!

[Buglunch]

I liked it right away but many think it's just spare stuff thrown on and don't listen to it.
BTW, why is 9012Live so short?? Don't they have more of this material? Tape, CD AND DVD; I don't get it. Does anyone know how the title arose?

I put on Jon's Animation tape and I still like it more than Song of Seven which I got first time a few weeks ago.

[Altres]

That That Is is exeptional dadrock. It actually transcends the title. I love it, although I doubt it'll dissuade one 13 year old out there given the chance to listen to the disk. 13 out of 10 for effort though.

Brian

[neilius]

A good Yessong.

[Timmo]

I love this song, and the lyrics get a bit of a bashing, even from diehard yesfans.

For some reason, people have a problem with the word "cracktime." If you've ever been around people smoking crack, you'd know EXACTLY what he's talking about.

[Hugh Shiebler]

I'm not sure if it is the word "cracktime" itself, or that some find the whole subject matter and street-incred tone somewhat jarring. Maybe people want to hear Jon sing about Moorglade Movers and Moongate Climbers, in all encircling mode. Maybe cracktime is out of our comfort zone for a Yes tune. Like -- be progressive but not THAT progressive!

[Judge Judy]

That's my favorite song by far on Keystudio. There's good stuff here and there throughout the album, but it's the only song I really like all the way through and find really inspired.

[Hugh Shiebler]

My favorite song from Keystudio is stil "Bring Me to the Power" by far, but I seem to be in a minority of one. Next would be "Mind Drive".

I enjoy "That, That Is" a lot, but (to me) there just is something comical about singing about crack ho's cars screaming gang life soul to hell etc etc that always makes me shudder.

[True Believer]

It's a great Yessong, along with Be The One.

[rememberer]

I'm not sure if it is the word "cracktime" itself, or that some find the whole subject matter and street-incred tone somewhat jarring. Maybe people want to hear Jon sing about Moorglade Movers and Moongate Climbers, in all encircling mode. Maybe cracktime is out of our comfort zone for a Yes tune. Like -- be progressive but not THAT progressive!

That could be. I always have the feeling that Jon got whacked too hard once or twice for his "airy fairy" stuff. They could have been making it up but a magazine quoted Chris as using just such a critical phrase about Jon's material right about the time of Drama when Jon had departed.

It might be that Jon put in the word "time" to fill up space and it sounds slightly contrived even if it makes reasonable sense, and I still get a little jump when I get to that part that does make me a little wistful for the pastoral imagery like "in and around the lake, mountains come out of the sky" - especially since Yes music really was entertwined with imagery so tightly with the Dean covers - or at least it seemed that way, listening to the music and staring at the LP covers and feeling transported by the potent combination.

But I presume we let Trevor Horn get away with singing "die like a dead beaten speed freak," so it might be unfair to begrudge Jon "crack time". :-)

Especially since what I really notice on that part is Chris riffing away anyway. Go, Chris! That, That Is really is one of my favorite Yes songs. A real epic as far as I'm concerned, and brilliantly put together. It would be amazing if they'd do that live.

[Kevin Caffrey]

This one gets overlooked too often. In my opinion this is by far the best tune on either Keys I or II.

Totally agree. Out of all of the "longer" tracks from Yes post-TALK, this one is easily the best. Great melodies from Jon throughout ("all in all" especially), and an excellent little electric guitar run by Howe right at the end. Awesome intro as well. Really don't know why "Mind Drive" seems to be more of a fan favorite than "That, That Is." Maybe the beginning verses about "crack time" turn some off.

Kevin

[HaroldLand]

I enjoyed That, That Is on the first listening and have continued enjoying it since then. I agree with an earlier post if you've ever encountered a friend or loved one hooked on crack time the bite of the Crossfire lyrics is quite realistic. Kudos to Jon. It was courageous of him to take that on. I recall Chris Squire responding to a question about that and he said something like, "if it's disturbing, then maybe it needs to be disturbing." Yes lyrics aren't known to be preachy. But when they are it's for a serious cause. Don't Kill The Whale being the first I'm aware of.

[breadboy526]

one of the best yes tunes in the past 10 years. cant understand why people have such a hard time with the lyrics, though. things change, folks!!!

[Bobby Dread]

I have always thought That, That Is is the centerpiece of the Keys studio tracks. Such a unique Yessong in that Jon sings about a very modern, factual, real world situation (drugs, gangs, drive-by shootings) and then ties this real world problem into reasons and solutions that are more philosophical/spiritual, in short, more of a Yes oriented lyric. And man, the music is simply fantastic. For me, it's yet another one of the best songs Yes has ever done.

My long time Yes buddies have always thought more highly of Mind Drive. For some reason almost 10 years later, I still don't appreciate it as much as I maybe I should in contrast to That, That Is. It's always seemed a little cut and paste to me, borne out by the fact I found out that they used a theme from the XYZ sessions in the early 80's on the track.

I've gotta find an old letter from Notes From The Edge to post here.... "I'll be baack".

[Albedo]

My favorite song from Keystudio is stil "Bring Me to the Power" by far, but I seem to be in a minority of one. Next would be "Mind Drive".

I enjoy "That, That Is" a lot, but (to me) there just is something comical about singing about crack ho's cars screaming gang life soul to hell etc etc that always makes me shudder.

Having now listened to this album a few times, I tend to agree that Bring Me to the Power is the most listenable song on the album for me. For some reason I think I would like the whole album better if it was instrumental. I find Jon's singing to be a bit harsh/strident in places, but on the other hand the music rocks.

[zenslinger]

A Mind Drive vs. That, That Is thread from a year or so ago is pretty interesting. I have found myself liking TTI more and more as time has gone on, whereas MD had more immediate appeal. TTI's intro is a little long and the "All in All" theme is a little bit weak to me -- but nothing beats the fast Squire playing and the exhiliarating end.

Pound for pound, though, I also think Bring Me to the Power is tops from Keys I & II.

[pedro skychaser]

unleash the unweildy beast that is,that,that is!!!
a journey from the dark,mean streets into the light on top of the hill,its got all the ingredients;jonchanting,steve plinketty plinking,fishy killerriff,rickrecapitulations+alan
brings in the sheperds pie for the lads.


"loki marvelled as the exploding lava solidified into arches across the water"

[Bobby Dread]

To continue my post from earlier today:

I spent about a hour looking through the NFTE archives but couldn't find this guy's story about That, That Is, so I'll have to paraphrase:

He was working with at-risk kids, teens I believe and the way I remember it seemed like they were possibly inner city type residents. Anyway, he would play music with them as part of his program. And since he loves Yes, he would play Yes music. He played That, That Is to some of them and got a really strong positive response. He said the song obviously moved them. One of the girls said something to the effect of: "That guy really tells it like it is!"

It was a cool story and made me appreciate the song even more.

I too think Bring Me To The Power is a very strong Yessong. And I really dig Footprints too.

[allpurechance]

That That Is is exeptional dadrock. It actually transcends the title. I love it, although I doubt it'll dissuade one 13 year old out there given the chance to listen to the disk. 13 out of 10 for effort though.

Brian

lmaoooOOOOOOoo @ "dadrock"

I have always loved this song the most of all the latter works.Echoes of Yesdays passed,and the best post Awaken epic...

[Scooty]

I love That That Is..

It was such a nice comeback, musically, for the boys.
Too bad more people haven't heard it..and it could have definitely benefited from being played live!!

[True Believer]

One of my fave tracks too. Would love to hear it live!

[YES indeed-ily]

for the longest time, I never gave "That, That Is" much of a fair chance. I mean, whenever I'd put the CD in to listen to it, I'd ultimately gravitate towards the live "Starship Trooper" instead....by the time it was over, I'd pretty much forgotten about "That, That Is" LOL

But it's grown into a favorite of mine, and one of the greatest compliments I can give is that it seems a helluva lot shorter than its actual running time. On the other hand, I still think "Mind Drive" is kinda bloated & lacks the vitality of the typical Yes "epic"...go figure...

[Whitefish]

One of the greatest Yes songs ever! They should do it live. Sounds a little bit like "Sound Chaser" at times. It has that vibe to it.

[Earl Grey]

I'm obviously going to have to listen to That That IS again, as I found it a little silly and trite. I've been wrong before.

EG

[creamy]

I'm obviously going to have to listen to That That IS again, as I found it a little silly and trite. I've been wrong before.

EG



My same feeling about the song but i remember hating Tormato when it came out around 1979 and put it away for 10 or 15 years without listening to it and then one day i played it again and i said wow what a good album and have played it to death ever since.

[Earl Grey]

My same feeling about the song but i remember hating Tormato when it came out around 1979 and put it away for 10 or 15 years without listening to it and then one day i played it again and i said wow what a good album and have played it to death ever since.

Me too Creamy.

I wanted Tormato to kick the crap out of everything vapid, and it didn't. So I shuffed it away for some years...

I love it now, but I still wish it had kicked the crap out of everything vapid.

Here's to the next YES album!

Future Times and On The Silent Wings Of Freedom.

Hell yeah! Closer to the edge...

EG

[Earl Grey]

I LOVE Tormato. It plays constantly on the stereo of my mind, and yours as well...

Well well well.

Tormato rocks, ultimately.

A fantastic album, and not CTTE! ;)

[creamy]

Me too Creamy.

I wanted Tormato to kick the crap out of everything vapid, and it didn't. So I shuffed it away for some years...

I love it now, but I still wish it had kicked the crap out of everything vapid.

Here's to the next YES album!

Future Times and On The Silent Wings Of Freedom.

Hell yeah! Closer to the edge...

EG


You forgot onward, a truly great Yessong.Tormato may have been great instead of good but it may have been rushed. Looking back it is amazing how active the band was hardly taking any time out between tours and new albums.

[YesJen357]

A firm favourite of mine, right 'up there' on my Ultimate set-list.
It is one of my great hopes - like winning the lottery and retiring from work early; to be in the front rows when this one is played live.

[heishere]

i just now listened to "that, that is," from Keys to Ascension I, for the first time in my life, and i listened just once.

it did nothing for me.

forgive me if i come off as negative, but i'm trying to be honest here. the subject matter (crack, gang violence, etc.) didn't turn me off at all! rather, i found myself asking again the same question i've asked before: why is it that some melodies are memorable from the very first time time you hear them, while other aren't? for me, there was not a single memorable vocal melody in the entire set of movements of "that, that is." as a matter of fact, it sounded like jon was using his voice in a sort of free-form jazz improvisation. now, take ABWH as a point of comparison: when you hear the opening melody of "brother of mine" (so, giving all the love you have, never be afraid to show your heart), or the gorgeous lullaby of "the meeting" (surely i could tell, if you ask me lord to board the train, my life, my love would be the same, as i would be the one for you in the meeting of your love), or such meltaway metaphysical lovesongs as "i wanna learn" (i wanna learn more about you...) or "i'm alive" (only when you looked did i realize, someone broke into your life, how we hurt and never show it), etc. etc. etc.: when you hear these songs for the first time, you know immediately that these are truly unforgettable melodies! if you know ABWH well, all you need is the fragments i just quoted and you can start humming: these are transcendental melodies that emerge like butterflies from their cocoons, and as i've said elsewhere, when i hear them i say to myself "how could a melody this precious have laid undiscovered all these centuries till now?" and "how on earth did jon find it"?

nothing like that happens on "that, that is."

maybe i'm just simple minded. maybe i just need "catchy" tunes.

but there's another question that bothers me tremendously here too: why is it that, so often, the first time through just doesn't do it for me? why is it that i find myself almost "training" myself, by force of repetition, to like some songs? i have a sneaking suspicion that this serves to prove (well, for me anyway), that no matter how much i may grow to like them, they are inferior to other songs, like those mentioned from ABWH...

on the other hand, i felt much the same way about magnification after i heard it the first time, and now i feel like i need it as much as air, food, space, peace...

i just don't get it...

[allpurechance]

Been listening to music again after returning home from work, when the house becomes empty, other than myself and the dog.

Two mornings ago, it was disc 1 of The Night Watch - King Crimson. That worked really well (Starless And Bible Black at the end! Utterly amazing improv! And all those years ago, we wondered if it could actually have been...well, it was...).

This past morning, I heard in the silence that is often required to unwind after an overnighter on the job, Jon singing- "That thought is just a worry to the children of the world"...

...and had to play it...

I am coming closer and closer to just up and declaring this to be worthy of the rest of the classic Yes epics. It is that good, that satisfying. It seems to be bearing up to repeated listens, and under the weight of the accumulated time since it first appeared really, really well.

Already consider it a great song, and this past morning's listen was most satisfying, most enjoyable, most gratifying.

A little more time, a few dozen more listens, maybe right up there with the Awaken's and the Close To The Edge's, The Gates'...

?

...regardless, this is a beautiful piece of work, and like so much of this band's output, almost criminally undervalued.

[Symbol]

I enjoyed listening to this piece today dring my walk. There is alot to like about it.

[allpurechance]

I enjoyed listening to this piece today dring my walk. There is alot to like about it.

Weird how synchronous life can be, isn't it, Pete?!

:lmao:

Alot to like? I'm ready to declare love!

Chris Squire's backing vocals are so ethereally beautiful in places.

In other places, the whole band -kicks-!

Steve - hot!

Rick - hot!

Alan - hot!

Chris - hot!

Jon sounds fantastic throughout.

In places it gets positively -funky-!

Ends satisfyingly.

Just seems to be accumulating more over time all the qualities required of great Yes music...

[Symbol]

Weird how synchronous life can be, isn't it, Pete?!

:lmao:

Alot to like? I'm ready to declare love!

Chris Squire's backing vocals are so ethereally beautiful in places.

In other places, the whole band -kicks-!

Steve - hot!

Rick - hot!

Alan - hot!

Chris - hot!

Jon sounds fantastic throughout.

In places it gets positively -funky-!

Ends satisfyingly.

Just seems to be accumulating more over time all the qualities required of great Yes music...

No suprise that your and my musical tastes run side by side, Frank. You have impeccable taste. :headset:

[allpurechance]

No suprise that your and my musical tastes run side by side, Frank. You have impeccable taste. :headset:

You, sir, are too kind.
(but I already knew that about you)

[pedro skychaser]

yeah frank,soul-saver from shenactaddtttyyy....i've said this before but i wanna know how julie+shirley are doin now....i don't care about angels,prophecies,prophets,new agisms....to me now its all about social justice and reaching down to people without blackberries,portfolios+shares...now jon should turn his gaze from the stars to the streets where he lives or is san luis obispo some gated wealth club???

that,that is...a trip,a daring vision...

but what about "that,that is 2"???

[allpurechance]

yeah frank,soul-saver from shenactaddtttyyy....i've said this before but i wanna know how julie+shirley are doin now....i don't care about angels,prophecies,prophets,new agisms....to me now its all about social justice and reaching down to people without blackberries,portfolios+shares...now jon should turn his gaze from the stars to the streets where he lives or is san luis obispo some gated wealth club???

that,that is...a trip,a daring vision...

but what about "that,that is 2"???

Noone, and I do mean noone! - comes up with more or more creative spelling variations on this theme than you, Peter!

:lmao:

You raise a good point, too! What happened to those girls?

I'm with you! That, That Is II is required, and ASAP!!

By the way, it was a great delight to exchange verbiage with you several sun cycles ago...

[Jaybird]

This one gets overlooked too often. In my opinion this is by far the best tune on either Keys I or II.

I agree with you on this one. If you can get past one or two cheesy lyric lines, this song is very well developed and flows really well between themes, IMO. Taken as a whole, its a very uplifting song. I prefer That, That Is to Mind Drive.

[Buglunch]

'Mind Drive' does seem a fairly clumsy amalgam of segments, not as seamless as their other epics.

I've been to SLO three times but had no idea
Jon had a house there- when did he buy it?

[pedro skychaser]

jon has lived in SLO many years now...earl grey would sometimes see him in town i recall...or in a bookshop/cafe...when will jon write "the definitive small town americana song-cycle"???

he must by now know the butcher,baker,candle-stick maker, their wives+illicit love affairs...

[Buglunch]

Best burrito I ever had was in SLO in 1989.

[allpurechance]

Best burrito I ever had was in SLO in 1989.

:lmao:

Definitely worth a verse or two in That, That Is II Bruce...

:lmao:

(Gotta love this place)

[pedro skychaser]

"feeling stronger
feeling wide awake
looked at shirley in the sunshine
wind was blowing
times were changing
waking up stronger
walking in a straight line
walking to pete's burrito shop
feeling stronger"

excerpt from TTI2...recorded april 08, SLO

[Bobby Dread]

...this song is very well developed and flows really well between themes, IMO. Taken as a whole, its a very uplifting song. I prefer That, That Is to Mind Drive.

Agree with the quote above wholeheartedly. Have always thought that it was a very adventurous/innovative lyrical theme, dare I say progressive?

It ranks for me among Yes' masterworks for me. After all these years, Mind Drive doesn't quite do it for me. Which is odd, because I appreciate 98.6425% of Yes music!

[luckeydoug1]

Is it just me, or is this actually a damn fine Yes Song ? One that repays repeated plays and would be great live ? Very satisfying to listen to over its entire duration, great playing, great vocals, great melodies and structures.

This one gets overlooked too often. In my opinion this is by far the best tune on either Keys I or II.
And for me one of my top ten favorite Yes songs. It is kinda nice to hear Jon singing about reality for a change. This is one powerful, well written and perfectly executed piece of music... a perfect candidate for the upcoming tour!

[YYY]

When KEYS/That, That is was releaed, I was still in my aloof YES phase. It took me several listens or time to finally get it!
Then all of a sudden it hit me..

I NOW THINK IT IS ONE OF THEIR LATER CLASSICS!!!
It is so sooooooooo overlooked and under appreciated.
Musically, the various themes and the arrangement is perfect YES. Too bad it doesn't get much attention especially here on YESfans.

Yes I think we should petition it for 2009 tour as a surprise masterwork.

[bjlevine]

That, That Is has really become my favorite Yes track since Relayer, for a lot of reasons. I love that Jon takes on the always controversial issue of why do bad things happen, and I love the way that the song moves back and forth between physical perspective and spiritual perspective. The All In All section rates right up there with To Be Over and The Remembering for its beauty and drama.

[90125yes]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Jaybird http://www.yesfans.com/bluefusion/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?p=1324716#post1324716)
...this song is very well developed and flows really well between themes, IMO. Taken as a whole, its a very uplifting song. I prefer That, That Is to Mind Drive.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

-----

well said


agreed



well well well another day


look in the tree .. Jaybird


good one

[TOBYSGRAPHICGOKART]

I've always said that,musically,there are some fine moments on this one.
But THOSE lyrics-what were they thinking of ?!!

That,That Is isn't in the same league as the awesome Mind Drive though.

[bjlevine]

I think to "get" That, That Is you really have to understand the concept. The song moves between the physical world and the spiritual world (and back) to try and deal with the difficult issues of life. Jon takes a tragic real world situation (the death of a child during a drug-related drive-by shooting) and goes on to try to put this in perspective from an eternal, spiritual perspective. The conclusion he arrives at is profound:

Look upon this life as just a picture you are painting
There's a reason for this being
Look upon this place as just a part of all there is
It is a spiritual part of being
Live within the power (you can be the strength it is)
Walk among the living (you can be the strength it is)

In other words, nearly everything in life only makes sense when viewed from a spiritual perspective.

Deep stuff...even for a Yes song.

[CybrKhatru]

That That Is remains my favorite song from the Keys period, and I wish they'd have performed it live.

[Sharp on Attack]

That that is perfect, IMHO the best track on studio KEYS. MIND DRIVE could have been great at 12 minutes, but the 20 mn version just drags on aimlessly.

[maninthemoon]

I like That That Is, but I disagree with the Mind Drive criticisms. I don't think the transitions are choppy at all and I love listening to the full song. It's more robust/macho perhaps but I don't think that makes it choppy.

[relayeire]

this sounds a little too "put together" for my liking, though it has some great moments... I'm not very spiritual, so maybe that's an issue...

[bjlevine]

Lots of Tales sounds (and is) "put together". Its a fairly classical approach to writing (as opposed to the standard verse, chorus, verse, chorus, break, chorus).

It is the spiritual nature of the song that takes it to a higher level for me. I think that the All in All section is one of the most beautiful musical themes that Yes has done.

Mind Drive is equally epic as a piece. For me KTA was about Yes returning to form as a true progressive rock leader, rather than a pop-rock wannabee.

[therabidwombat]

I love the way that That, That Is builds up to the crossfire segment, where after some 'hey ya hey hey ya hey ya heys' (I don't know what they're actually saying), the music surges forward, much like life, it just takes off, and then whatever happened is over, and you are left wondering, who kills a child? What just happened?

I'm not particularly spiritual myself but the second half of the song always sucks me right in on a different level than the crossfire segment, as you wonder about the meaning of why terrible things must happen and come to terms with them. It is a moving piece. One of Yes' better, although I can't comment too much on how it ranks compared to the rest of their '90s stuff, as Keys I is all I've heard so far.

[YYY]

I think to "get" That, That Is you really have to understand the concept. The song moves between the physical world and the spiritual world (and back) to try and deal with the difficult issues of life. Jon takes a tragic real world situation (the death of a child during a drug-related drive-by shooting) and goes on to try to put this in perspective from an eternal, spiritual perspective. The conclusion he arrives at is profound:

Look upon this life as just a picture you are painting
There's a reason for this being
Look upon this place as just a part of all there is
It is a spiritual part of being
Live within the power (you can be the strength it is)
Walk among the living (you can be the strength it is)

In other words, nearly everything in life only makes sense when viewed from a spiritual perspective.

Deep stuff...even for a Yes song.


Another Y's comment. This is the strength and beauty of this return to true YES form. One cool aspect of the music is the return of Jon's signature chanting which always adds that eastern, native american spiritual element to YES music. Defintely one of their best on Keys and a perfect candidate for the live playlist if and when Jon returns in 09

[kirklott]

I never used to rate "That, That Is". But I've been playing it a lot in my car lately. Having new car with CD player helps !
Is it just me, or is this actually a damn fine Yes Song ? One that repays repeated plays and would be great live ? Very satisfying to listen to over its entire duration, great playing, great vocals, great melodies and structures.
Can't get the damn thing out of my head. How did heaven begin

It is truly one of Yes' finest moments, especially the middle third.

[Ron Prange]

For me KTA was about Yes returning to form as a true progressive rock leader, rather than a pop-rock wannabee.
True statement and probably/arguably will prove to be the last great consortium of the 'fab five' together...

[KPatrick]

I think there are a few different songs in "That That Is" that don't really belong together. Some of Yes's longer pieces have a logical flow (CTTE, Gates, Awaken) and some of them really don't (Tales, this one). Steve's intro is lovely and transitions nicely into Jon's chant which transitions nicely into the verse -- but the solo and the chant are both too long. I like the transition of the verse into the "That talk is just a worry" section; the "That talk" section is sublime, one of my favorite Yes passages.

Then that song stops, basically, to resume much later. In between we have the more circus-y bits -- at least three different songs that barely have anything to do with each other, let alone the good song that came before it. "All in All," "How Did Heaven Begin," the faster (or at least more percussive) "That Talk" section... In addition to not being related to the first several minutes, I think the music is also half baked. "Heaven" is a nice piece, but these three are where I lose interest every time. When people talk about "That That Is" being cut-and-pasted together, this is the section they're talking about.

Once that's over, it gets back into what I'd loosely term the main theme, finishes on what I've always thought was an awesome Howe solo, full of emotional, fiery playing by the whole group, and ends with a bang.

There's a good 10-minute song in here, but I think they wanted an "epic." I think epics are born, not made. "Gates" is 20+ minutes long because it takes that long to tell that story. "That That Is" is 20 minutes long because they wanted a 20-minute song, and with the 17 subsections, it's a good way to divvy up some writing credits too. I think it was a missed opportunity.

[YYY]

"That, That is" a song that I only heard after years of not listening to YES for many years. I wasn't a YESfan during their 80's period and only occasionally listened to YES post TORMATO at the record store for old times sake. Like most of YES's 80's music it didn't find 90's THAT, THAT IS to have the YES magic of the 70's. Everytime I heard "THAT, THAT IS" I had the same reaction as you KPatrick. It didn't feel cohesive. But as time passed I began to enjoy and relate to each section. I felt that each section did contain elements of old YES. In time I eventually became a true fan of this song. Looking back, I had the same reaction to GTFO and TORMATO initially. The quintessential YES to me was CTTE, TALES & RELAYER plus the great albums leading up to them. My initial reaction to THAT, THAT IS was the same as it was to post RELAYER YES. I still haven't been converted to 80's YES except for a few songs within some albums. Today the only recording after TORMATO I hold in the highest esteem is MAG.

[YYY]

Lots of Tales sounds (and is) "put together". Its a fairly classical approach to writing (as opposed to the standard verse, chorus, verse, chorus, break, chorus).

It is the spiritual nature of the song that takes it to a higher level for me. I think that the All in All section is one of the most beautiful musical themes that Yes has done.

Mind Drive is equally epic as a piece. For me KTA was about Yes returning to form as a true progressive rock leader, rather than a pop-rock wannabee.


None of TALES feels "put together to me and never has from day one. I also learned to appreciate the music of ALL IN ALL over time. Not one the greatest but I can certainly loose myself listening to it.

Tried but never been able to fully appreciate Mind Drive. Lots of talk about it here on Yesfans but it still doesn't grab me.
It reminds me of a 2nd rate YES song that never quite reached the level of a true classic musically or lyrically.

[pjt]

I've always preferred TTA to MD. Maybe because I like every part of TTA, while I've always felt that the middle guitar part of MD was somewhat out of place.

[90125yes]

that that is was a return to form of YES as was all the other studio stuff on keys

oh i wish they would do this type of music again !!!

[Dragonfly]

I always thought "That That Is" suffered from Jon's lyrics. When people first heard about "Julie" letting "the baby die" and stuff like that, they were completely turned off - despite the amazing instrumentation behind it. As such, "Mind Drive" got all the kudos. I think TTI is superior (by several notches) to MD. It's got more acoustic piano and guitar than its bookend epic and is just a better piece all-around.

When I put together my own KEYSTUDIO I put all of the "Keys To Ascension Part II" (with songs in their original order) first, then the two from "Part I". That gave me a much more satisfying set lists - much like "The Yes Album."

Give it a try!

[bjlevine]

Okay, at great personal risk to my ego, I'm going to try and give my interpretation of That, That Is. Maybe it explains why I like it so much.

This is Jon's attempt to explain what may be one of the greatest "spiritual" questions: 'if there is a loving creator, then why does bad stuff happen?'

Not only does he try to answer this (challenging enough), but he attempts to look at it from the perspective of both the physical realm and the spiritual realm.

The story begins in the eternal spiritual world, a place of tranquility and peace (opening acoustic section). The "chant" represents crossing over* from the spiritual world to the physical world. Now we are firmly back in the real world, with a real world story ripped from the headlines: drug deal, drive by shooting, innocent child is shot dead. How can something like this possibly make any sense? God, can you explain this?

The reply comes from the spiritual world. Asking questions like this is the beginning of the search for truth. The realization that life seems unfair and sometimes downright evil is to draw us to the concept that there is a better reality, an eternal reality.

The next section brings conflict. Same questions, same answers. How does any of this make sense? And truthfully, no one develops deep convictions about anything without some serious soul-searching. We fight through our limited thinking "until you reach and touch your own redemption".

Finally, it sinks in. All this physical stuff...this isn't reality. its temporary. It wastes away, just like our physical bodies. There is a reality where we can always be young and truly be free, and we yearn to be there. And you look around, and suddenly realize that the signs are everywhere. We're so used to looking at things from the perspective of "now" (which is why we freak out over everything that happens), when in higher spiritual dimension time doesn't even exist. You begin to look at everyone and everything from a new perspective, one that goes beyond the moment.

And then we transition back to the reality of the physical world. So here we are, trying to live with a new spiritual perspective to life, but we're still stuck in the here and now. The conclusion is to realize that this world isn't everything and our purpose extends beyond it. Live here and now as if you're not living for the here and now, but for something much greater.

Look upon this life as just a picture you are painting.
There's a reason for this being.
Look upon this place as just a part of all there is.
It is a spiritual part of being.

Live for the breaking free (from the limitations this world puts on us).

Okay, I'm done. This is just my personal interpretation, and certainly not meant to offend anyone (freedom of choice and thought is a great thing). But its one of the reasons that this song means so much to me.

-----
*with no apologies to the biggest douche in the universe

[Sharp on Attack]

I thought this was a pro-choice song.

[open windows]

IMO, this could be one of the all time BEST songs Yes has ever recorded, if not the best. The song is about the drug culture and how it's destroying a whole generation of people.

[happytheman]

Tried but never been able to fully appreciate Mind Drive. Lots of talk about it here on Yesfans but it still doesn't grab me.
It reminds me of a 2nd rate YES song that never quite reached the level of a true classic musically or lyrically.
I recently heard the XYZ sessions, this is where Mind Drive originated from. Interesting listen, Jimmy Page "drives" this song. No lyrics of course, also included was Chris' "Can you Imagine" which ended up on Magnification. I actually prefer the XYZ session version in this case as well. Something to do with Chris' vocals.

[90125yes]

this is a great song

wish yes would produce mew material in this style