Why did he leave?

[djcub]

If someone would rather point me to a faq so as not to repeat a question, thats fine. But I never understood what the story was on why BWH left the Union band, and then why Rabin and Kaye left after talk...

[Jacaranda]

I read Tim Morse's book "YesStories", and it sounds like Union left a bad taste in everyones mouth. Everybody kinda just floated apart. Actually I think Steve Howe said he saw continuing on but I know Wakeman felt digust with Union. After that I think Phil Carlson at Victory Records contacted Trevor Rabin and told him he wanted a Yes album with the 90125 line-up, and "Talk" was born. Wakeman was going to join up but couldn't for label reasons.

As for why Trevor Rabin left after Talk...it's funny, I listened to his commentary for the music score he made on "The Sixth Day" DVD, the Scharzene....arg, Arnold movie. I rented it while I was picking up a couple other movies at the video store (also rented the documentary "Live Forever", about the british rock explosion in the 90's...good movie, I'm an Oasis fan too).

Anyways, on the commentary, Trevor does talk about Yes a few times...I think he knew fans were expecting him too, the way he talked. I can't quote word-for-word, but his comments went like this:

*He had a feeling come over him when Yes was playing in Hiroshima, Japan on the Talk tour. It was like the movie "Groundhog Day", he said. The feeling of doing things over and over was getting to him, and he was looking at the people screaming and excited in the audience, and he didn't feel excited like them anymore. I also heard elsewhere, not from the commentary, he was not getting along with Jon.

*He went on to compare being in the band to making movie scores, saying he preferred working on movies because he works on the music for 8 weeks and it is done, he never has to play it again, and he moves on to a new movie that is different.

*He explains how he got started in creating movie scores. Steven Segal contacted Trevor and wanted him to teach him guitar. So Trevor taught him how to play a Jimi Hendrix song, not Purple Haze, I can't remember which. Segal was so grateful he told Trevor that if he could do anything for him, he would. So Trevor said "I wanna make a movie score" and Segal got him the gig.

So there you have it, Steven Segal killed YesWest!

Not sure about the reason behind Tony leaving.

[cinderella]

Segal got him the gig.

So there you have it, Steven Segal killed YesWest!


That was the Glimmerman right?

[umgekehrt]

I could understand him completely. I mean, playing the same songs over and over again might be fun for the first couple of weeks, then it's just repetition. Endless Dream lol.

[raz]

Not sure about the reason behind Tony leaving.


I think tony left when he realised that his keyboards were not pluged in and someone else was playing them....

[Yes2Yes]

I think tony left when he realised that his keyboards were not pluged in and someone else was playing them....

That's a hoot!!!

:dog:

[Jacaranda]

That was the Glimmerman right?

Yep. I still remember seeing Trevor's name in the credits on the poster for it or something at the time, and going, "Uh...WHAT?"

[PO]

I could understand him completely. I mean, playing the same songs over and over again might be fun for the first couple of weeks, then it's just repetition.
That is the tough part of success.

I wonder how many times John Fogerty has played Proud Mary? He HAS to play it every show. And he's been in the business for 40 years. Let's say 150 shows a year x 40 = 6000. :eeek: But, that's the way it is.

Even I have played Roundabout at least 300 times, perhaps more.

[JL]

I used to think the Grateful Dead had solved this. However, when you look at it, they pretty much had four shows of material that they would tweak into no exact repeats for the duration of a tour. That's still keeping it a bit more interesting than most bands do.

That said, to expect that kind of situation from a band like Yes or for that matter any "prog" band is unrealistic. Music that precise requires rehearsal. No matter how many times you have played it, you cannot respectably pull off Close To The Edge at some random mid tour show without having prepared it. I've tried to explain this to my DeadHead friends. Some of them get it, some don't.

[BrianD]

No matter how many times you have played it, you cannot respectably pull off Close To The Edge at some random mid tour show without having prepared it. I've tried to explain this to my DeadHead friends. Some of them get it, some don't.

I agree with what you say up to a point but Yes HAVE done this a few times - a couple times in 1979 on the Tormato tour, in Honolulu in 2003 to name a few that come to mind.

I think that Yes have probably erred a little bit too much on the side of caution in this area - that is I believe they could have tweeked their setlists a little more than they have over a tour - doesn't mean that they should radically alter it but maybe have a half dozen extra songs prepared that they could use in rotation.

[PO]

With Yes a lot of it has to do with the instruments. The keyboards and guitars have to be at the ready. So, if they do swap in a Close to the Edge, it takes some preparation. I'm sure it was never done on a whim.

When you see a pedal steel on the stage, you can probably expect To Be Over. If you don't see one (like we haven't), you won't hear it. Regardless of the band's desire.

[Skyward]

By the time UNION came to be, Chris, Alan, Jon and Trevor had vaulted YES back onto the music scene in a big way. That configuration wasn't about to change in order to try and accommodate the egos and legalities involved in trying to maintain an 8-piece line-up. For Bruford, it was money, for Steve...well, who really knows and Rick, though he and Trevor got along famously, the formula just didn't seem to work...yet! The LP sold 750,000 copies plus and they all got paid handsomely for their 'joint' efforts. I don't think anyone saw it as becoming anything remotely approaching a permanent monster combo. Since Trevor wasn't about to abandon ship yet, Steve was apparently given the subtle heave-ho, at least this is what I gather from Chris Welch's book, CLOSE TO THE EDGE.

It was a one-time thing from start to finish. An experiment, as it were.

[Jackaranda]

Rabin worked very hard to make Talk a success, and it just didn't happen. Why?

Union turned a lot of people off. It sold well, but a lot of people who bought it probably decided they were done with Yes after hearing it.

A lot of people who stuck with Yes were upset that Steve and Rick weren't on the album. Rick should have been, I think it was a management thing or contractual thing that kept him out. Rabin said back then then he'd wanted Rick to play on it.

There were 2 other "Yes" album released just prior to Talk (ABWH Live and Symphonic Music of Yes). The general public was confused.

Rock radio was changing drastically at the time. Talk would have done better if it'd been released 6 months earlier.

The tour was delayed because Jon got hurt.

Bad choice of singles. The Calling? Ok. Walls? Not! That helped kill the album also. Why not Real Love?


This all combined for sales of "only" 300,000 and half empty venues. Then Victory Records went down. Then the official Yes fan magazine turned on the band. In the end, Rabin had had enough. He made a great Yes album and got zero support. So he left.

Tony left because Rabin left.

[cinderella]

In May of 1995 Trevor Rabin decided to leave Yes.

Here's a paragraph from the book Yes Stories : Yes In Their Own Words by Tim Morse. For those of you who haven't read the book, this is Trevor talking about why he left Yes.


I actually tried to leave two months earlier, but Chris had talked me out of it. I was having arguments with Jon and that's why I was leaving. Chris came around to my house and said, "You can't leave! What have you got on the go that's inspiring you to do this?" I said, "It's not about what I want to do or what I have to do - it's about what I don't want to do any longer. There are things that I find burdening and they are pulling at me." So I spoke to Chris and he talked me out of leaving, so I called Jon and said, "I'm going to stick it out a little longer, but we've got to talk things out."

Anyway the decision was something that had been building up in me for a long time. It was just a gut feeling that it was time for me to move on; the projects that I've been working on are very different than Yes music. After a lengthy discussion with my wife the night before I left, I just decided after thirteen years with the band and after completing an album I was very proud of (Talk) that I was leaving on a high note. I've enjoyed my time with the band and there are no hard feelings between us.

[Jackaranda]

Now Cindy you're just using that interview to mask the truth. Tell what really happened to him!

[cinderella]

Okay I confess.....I took him and tied him up in my basement. When I moved, my apartment didn't have a basement, so now he's tied up in my walk-in closet.

[tormatotork]

When I saw the Union tour, Trev seemed to be hitting it off with Rick. He was always aware of Howe's mark on the band but He really was leaning to the composing side of things, with his classical training and all that. The man more than made his mark with that great band though. expect more soundtracks to movies folks, good ones at that.

[cinderella]

expect more soundtracks to movies folks, good ones at that.


Yes. His newest one being The Great Raid which will be in theaters August 12th.

[djcub]

This one makes the most sense. I'll explain why...


Rabin worked very hard to make Talk a success, and it just didn't happen. Why?

Union turned a lot of people off. It sold well, but a lot of people who bought it probably decided they were done with Yes after hearing it..

It didnt turn me off, but I remember the tour. The crowd was fiercly split between the 2 Yes factions, depending on the songs played, the clothes, etc. I had on a King Crimson shirt, so you can guess which side I was more enthusiastic for...but it seemed like it wouldve been a nice swan song cause there wasnt much real unity between the band or the audience.


A lot of people who stuck with Yes were upset that Steve and Rick weren't on the album. Rick should have been, I think it was a management thing or contractual thing that kept him out. Rabin said back then then he'd wanted Rick to play on it..

I know I was severely disappointed when I saw it was the Yeswest only. It wouldve been interesting to hear Wakeman with the band tho. I could also tell Rabin and Wakeman were getting along on stage during the Union tour.

.[/QUOTE]There were 2 other "Yes" album released just prior to Talk (ABWH Live and Symphonic Music of Yes). The general public was confused.[/QUOTE]

I I wasnt. I loved ABWH because I was such a King Crimson nut, and Tony Levin playing bass is nothing to sneeze at. He played on Momentary Lapse of Reason, Crimson records, and the ABWH album? He could do no wrong, so...

Rock radio was changing drastically at the time. Talk would have done better if it'd been released 6 months earlier. .

Very true. I was 19 back in 1991 and like a lot of my friends at that time, was REALLY into the alternative music explosion...the first Lollapalooza and then Nirvana/grunge. The psychedelic/progressive rock Yes was much more interesting than the 80' Yes to many of us. Even those who didnt like Yes were more likely to listen to "Tales..." than "Owner of a Lonely Heart", which we saw as cheesy 80's pop from our junior high years. Not to offend any Rabin fans, he seems like a really nice guy. But the mysteriousness of Relayer and Close to the Edge just interested us more...


This all combined for sales of "only" 300,000 and half empty venues. Then Victory Records went down. Then the official Yes fan magazine turned on the band. In the end, Rabin had had enough. He made a great Yes album and got zero support. So he left. Tony left because Rabin left.

Yeah, I had no interest of it going back to that. Even the Union show with Yeswest was more fun. I was slightly curious about the quad sound on the Talk tour, since I heard Rabin and Squire saw Pink Floyd to get an idea. But it just didnt seem to fit the Yeswest style to me. So I skipped the show. I am interested in giving Talk another listen now.

And I feel bad for Tony. I love the stuff he did on the first 3 albums, and thought he did fine on the Union tour. I guess he would find no support in the other band's camp.

[Jacaranda]

Yes. His newest one being The Great Raid which will be in theaters August 12th.

And hopefully a solo album sometime. There was this cool thing he did with his voice on the 6th Day score that he talked about on the DVD commentary. He recorded his voice and altered it for this interesting, creepy sound. It kinda reminded me of his guitar solo on "Owner..", how he changed the sound of his guitar playing, and would be a cool effect in a song.

He said he had five lines in his appearance in the movie "Jack Frost", but he seemed happy they ended up on the cutting room floor in the final version of the movie.

[cinderella]

He said he had five lines in his appearance in the movie "Jack Frost", but he seemed happy they ended up on the cutting room floor in the final version of the movie.

Awww too bad. I would have liked to have seen that. I just thought it was so cool that Trevor was the first thing you saw when the movie started.

[neilius]

Let him do his own thing!! :heatset:

[Steve St Thomas]

*He explains how he got started in creating movie scores. Steven Segal contacted Trevor and wanted him to teach him guitar. So Trevor taught him how to play a Jimi Hendrix song, not Purple Haze, I can't remember which. Segal was so grateful he told Trevor that if he could do anything for him, he would. So Trevor said "I wanna make a movie score" and Segal got him the gig.

So there you have it, Steven Segal killed YesWest!


It was Hendrix's Red House. ;)

[Yescelt]

..it must have been cold in that white suit.

I just thought it was so cool that Trevor was the first thing you saw when the movie started.

[Jacaranda]

Awww too bad. I would have liked to have seen that. I just thought it was so cool that Trevor was the first thing you saw when the movie started.

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[cinderella]

Yeah, I agree. BTW, Cindy, you have a pretty strong effect on this website. Look at these ads at the top of the page just from your name!:)


hehe

Hee-hee! I know....Cinderella ads everywhere. http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/biggrin.gif