What is your rating of Keys to Ascension?

[BrianD]

This has been done before but not in a way to keep track of the scores - hopefully this will overcome that by allowing you to choose one score per album.

You can base your evaluation on any version of the album.

[True Believer]

I gave it an 8.

[Andersonic]

me too Ann, I would have liked this one and KTA 2 together as one album, with the live stuff as a bonus alive album. That would have worked way better than it did.

[smatt]

LOL, well I think the live stuff is a great studio album. The studio stuff is OK, Mindrive actually suprised me on the last tour. I think it came off rather well, but would've been much better if they not split it up into 3 parts. They should've released all of the KTA studio tracks on 1 album and thrown in an extra live disc as Winston said. I just can't stand the live stuff knowing what I know about it. It's an abomination, and really a big pack of lies, that smacks of current U.S. politics........
I give it an official Smatt "0" ;)

[Altres]

I just can't stand the live stuff knowing what I know about it. It's an abomination, and really a big pack of lies, that smacks of current U.S. politics........

What do you know about it? I just thought it was a great "live" recording.
Brian

[smatt]

What do you know about it? I just thought it was a great "live" recording.
Brian



:thinking: Well considering there's not 1 live song on Keys that's actually all live, and even some of them were cobbled together from the 3 different nights. In-fact, I think some of the songs are actually more studio than live. It was an abomination, a horrid idea to get these guys together after so many years have less than 2 weeks rehearsal, and then attempt to record a DVD/CD. If it wasn't for Billy Sherwood, this CD/DVD never would've come out. He showed his studio prowess, in the fact that he actually made the live stuff sound as if it were not over-dubbed and cobbled-cut-pasted form 3 different nights. Imagine taking parts of of the same song from 3 different shows, and getting them to meld together into one song.

Hey wait, I'll give Billy a 10 for "HIS" efforts.......... ;)

[ThePatman]

... all I know is RSof God and Starship Trooper kick in a major way. Rick and Steve on Trooper blow me away... how can you bring politics into this thread? What's going on aroung here? ... an 8 easily... :headset:

[Altres]

Thanks Smatt, I had no idea. It all sounds great to these cloth lugs. :D

Brian

[smatt]

... all I know is RSof God and Starship Trooper kick in a major way. Rick and Steve on Trooper blow me away... how can you bring politics into this thread? What's going on aroung here? ... an 8 easily... :headset:


Sure it's an 8 if you accept it as a true live un-adulterated live album. It does sound great... But live it is not.....

[ThePatman]

I don't know... maybe I'm not picky enough... I just like it. :headset:

[Andersonic]

The Revealing Science Of God on KTA made me dive once again back into Tales...I never could listen to the album entirely. After KTA I could.

[YesfanAndy]

This and KTA2 are IMO the best live YES stuff YES has done. I've quarrled with many a YES fan over this in years past, but I believe it. Ok, so some of it was overdubbed in the studio. What live albums aren't? It's the only place you're going to hear official live versions of RSOG, CTTE, AWAKEN, ONWARD, TOTC, GFTO. The live version on Awaken is my favorite live version - Ever. A close second being Wembley 78.

[Whitefish]

Love it. Great to hear the classic line-up back. A 10!

[breadboy526]

i just enjoyed hearing the guys doing some of their best work in a more recent time.sure, ctte will never sound like it did on yessongs, i actually have 3 or 4 versions of it. overdubbed, yes, but i dont care... i just love hearing these guys.

[Ktrek]

I gave it an 8. The live stuff is done pretty well and I like the new material. That That Is and Mind Drive being two of my favorites.

Kevin

[Steve St Thomas]

I gave it a 5. I have to be honest. To have this AFTER Talk was such a huge 'plummet' in my estimations of what Yes could do, and what they chose to do. But I'm not their manager, I just buy the albums. But there was nothing here that I hadn't heard before. And the original material just didn't do much for me. Apart from Skates, and MInd Drive.

[rememberer]

The studio stuff alone is worth a high rating. That That Is is brilliant. It's made out of such disparate bits but it fits together somehow, and without the sustained note transition trick that make everyone think there's filler material on Tales even if no one can actually agree where the filler material is exactly.

Compositionally they outdid themselves again with the K2A studio material, just like they did with Relayer, is what I think. That's high praise coming from a stubborn Trooper who still isn't far enough away from the old reflex of thinking EVERYTHING after Relayer is cr*p. Even the impossible-to-please Amazon reviewers fawned all over Keystudio. Add Revealing Science with Rick to this mix and that's already a 10 for me. I only wish more of the studio material had ever gotten performed live.

[ronsalehnasir]

I gave it an 8, only because I save the 9s and 10s for the masterworks of the 70s. This is the Best stuff Yes put out in the 90s. Talk, while it has some very high moments, is ultimately too youthful and short in attention span to be sustainable as classic Yes music. The stuff on Keys (e.g., That That Is, Mind Drive) has that long attention span characteristic of Howe.

[Hugh Shiebler]

I gave it an 8, only because I save the 9s and 10s for the masterworks of the 70s. This is the Best stuff Yes put out in the 90s. Talk, while it has some very high moments, is ultimately too youthful and short in attention span to be sustainable as classic Yes music. The stuff on Keys (e.g., That That Is, Mind Drive) has that long attention span characteristic of Howe.

I also gave it an eight. As for live tracks cobbled together from multiple nights - -who cares? This is common practice. Zappa used to have to cull from five or more mights just to find passages that had been played correctly.

And I completely agree that the KeyStudio tracks were, overall, the best music released under the YES banner since 1979.

"Bring Me to the Power" alone shows more fire and daring and SHEER JOY OF CREATING then anything since the "Going For The One" album.

In my opinion.

{However, as I wrote last night on the "80's Oh the Humanity" thread, "Talk" completely blows away "Open Your Eyes"

[ANTIOCH]

[QUOTE=smatt]: It was an abomination, a horrid idea to get these guys together after so many years have less than 2 weeks rehearsal, and then attempt to record a DVD/CD.

This has become the norm for YES in the last decade. I always check the itenerary, hoping they don't come to my town til well into the tour.

[Steve St Thomas]

I gave it an 8, only because I save the 9s and 10s for the masterworks of the 70s. This is the Best stuff Yes put out in the 90s. Talk, while it has some very high moments, is ultimately too youthful and short in attention span to be sustainable as classic Yes music. The stuff on Keys (e.g., That That Is, Mind Drive) has that long attention span characteristic of Howe.

Can I post a picture of the Ask Jeeves cartoon character here? Ultimately too youthful? Short in Attention Span? We bought different albums named Talk. I think you got the version that says on the back ''Don't Pay Attention Because There Is No Howe''

[Steve St Thomas]

And apologies for taking it ''personally''. I've just found out, according to you, that my tastes are ultimately too youthful and lack an attention span. Why, thank you.

[Scooty]

I gave it a 5. I have to be honest. To have this AFTER Talk was such a huge 'plummet' in my estimations of what Yes could do, and what they chose to do. But I'm not their manager, I just buy the albums. But there was nothing here that I hadn't heard before. And the original material just didn't do much for me. Apart from Skates, and MInd Drive.


I dunno man, I must be in the minority here because I adored That That Is, it was timely, had balls of steel, and Chris' bass runs are mindblowing.

Ive read for over a year now how people don't like the fact that Jon's lyrics on That That Is were too "street" (as much as Jon can be street ;)) and that his interpretations of gang life and crack addiction weren't relevant. I say, Jon was actually PISSED OFF for the first time in a very long time in his lyrics..

I give the Keys studio tracks a solid 9. Mind Drive, That That Is, Bring Me To The Power, Footprints, Be The One.....all great stuff, and in my mind..way better than Talk. I just don't get Talk, my fault, I take complete blame for not liking Talk, live it was a different story...but that album was so cold, and harsh to me production wise and the oversimplification of the music was unbareable in most of it (eg Walls, Real Love, I Am Waiting....) Endless Dream was a nice stab at returning to what I believe Yesmusice to be, but Talk...that was the end of the road for the Rabin years...nice try..but no cigar.

[Earl Grey]

I gave it an 8...

KEYS helped me through a difficult time in my life when I NEEDED something new from Classic YES, it was also the first YES album I'd bought since 1980 (...since then I've learned to love the Trevor years, Keyes probably allowed for that, since I'm such an irrepressible Howe fan. It was strangely ok to go back and give ear to the eighties tracks, once I knew that Classic YES was back in some form, and there ya go!).

I love KEYS, and hey! We finally heard Mind Drive live last tour, and I honestly wonder how much that had to do with posts written on this very website years ago, ...back before we knew that 'certain people' were reading what we had to post.

Bring me to the power!

EG:yesbird:

[Steve St Thomas]

I dunno man, I must be in the minority here because I adored That That Is, it was timely, had balls of steel, and Chris' bass runs are mindblowing.

Ive read for over a year now how people don't like the fact that Jon's lyrics on That That Is were too "street" (as much as Jon can be street ;)) and that his interpretations of gang life and crack addiction weren't relevant. I say, Jon was actually PISSED OFF for the first time in a very long time in his lyrics..

I give the Keys studio tracks a solid 9. Mind Drive, That That Is, Bring Me To The Power, Footprints, Be The One.....all great stuff, and in my mind..way better than Talk. I just don't get Talk, my fault, I take complete blame for not liking Talk, live it was a different story...but that album was so cold, and harsh to me production wise and the oversimplification of the music was unbareable in most of it (eg Walls, Real Love, I Am Waiting....) Endless Dream was a nice stab at returning to what I believe Yesmusice to be, but Talk...that was the end of the road for the Rabin years...nice try..but no cigar.

Arrrggghh! ;)

Well, one, Anderson's lyrics on That, That Is, are . . . . . .. .. personally, I have to ask the man, what do you know about any of that to be able to comment why people do the things they do. I'd ask that of John Lennon calling out to World Leaders to Give Peace a Chance, while he attacks his former bandmates, insults his first child (Julian), and aligns himself with the IRA and the Black Panthers. The question begs to be asked ... who do you think you are?

But it wasn't the lyric that swayed me. It was the music. It just repeated, repeated, repeated, unlinked and totally non-related pieces of music, and because it had individually named sections, and ran over 19 minutes, it is ''a return to form''. No, it's taking 4 separate ideas because you have the time, and calling it a 'collective' piece. Mind Drive I liked. So let's not say I'm totally against KTA. That, That Is sounds to me like one of the most forced manipulations of a ''motif'' Yes has ever put their name to. Tales From Topographic pieces are better organised and structured. And that's not even my ''favourite'' work of theirs, but when Anderson-Wakeman-Howe-Squire-White are actually good, I like to think at least that I can recognise it when it happens. KTA ain't it. And if it was so ''return to form'' where did it all go around Open Your Eyes??
I'm sorry Mr. Squire, honest, no offense. But I think everyone's been running on 'Automatic' since 1996, with a few moments of inspiration depending on who's ego is best fulfilled.

[Scooty]

Ok buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut ;)
If we are going to get into the whole arguement of "whadda ya' know about that!!"

Let's look at Springsteen, Mellencamp, Lennon, etc etc etc..on the whole "I understand the streets thing" ya know?? Millionares complaining about no work, poverty, "the man", all that shyte..
Which I see you have pointed out yourself..good work!!

I dunno...I dig it, we'll leave it at that. That That Is, to me, is a sorely needed live entity..

Ok ok, so Jon tried to get topical, I love him anyway..

HOWEVER...tripe like "In the depths of Hawkings mind" from Talk still makes me throw up a little bit in my mouth...
this is fun...:)

[Steve St Thomas]

Ok buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut ;)
If we are going to get into the whole arguement of "whadda ya' know about that!!"

Let's look at Springsteen, Mellencamp, Lennon, etc etc etc..on the whole "I understand the streets thing" ya know?? Millionares complaining about no work, poverty, "the man", all that shyte..
Which I see you have pointed out yourself..good work!!

I dunno...I dig it, we'll leave it at that. That That Is, to me, is a sorely needed live entity..

Ok ok, so Jon tried to get topical, I love him anyway..

HOWEVER...tripe like "In the depths of Hawkings mind" from Talk still makes me throw up a little bit in my mouth...
this is fun...:)

yea ....................but ;)

Listen to that reverse gate on ''In the depths of Hawking's Mind''! That's wicked! And you can really hear the Rabin/Squire harmony vocals on that section. You know, the guys that recorded Leave It vocals over 100 times or whatever!

Ugh. Springsteen. Ugh. I still say ''I'm On Fire'' is an open description of a man's masturbation (wanking) habits. But I was always felt sorry for him on how misinterpreted ''Born In The USA'' became. The lyrics of that song are some of the best he ever did, but wow, did people get that song wrong. Like that Stalker mentality Sting's ''Every Breath You Take'' has, that suggests the guy who loved ''Roxanne'' took things a little too far and won't forget her past.

Jon, to me, is an Impressionistic lyric writer. I don't want to limit the man by my estimations of his talents. I don't want to say he shouldn't approach this, or that (is) when he wants to. But like I said, it's not the lyrics that truly discouraged future Yes purchases to enter my household. It was what was happening with the songs. And they just no longer held anything that made me say 'wow'. Almost everything from 1969 to 1994 did. Even things on Going For The One and Tormato.

[Scooty]

yea ....................but ;)

Listen to that reverse gate on ''In the depths of Hawking's Mind''! That's wicked! And you can really hear the Rabin/Squire harmony vocals on that section. You know, the guys that recorded Leave It vocals over 100 times or whatever!

Ugh. Springsteen. Ugh. I still say ''I'm On Fire'' is an open description of a man's masturbation (wanking) habits. But I was always felt sorry for him on how misinterpreted ''Born In The USA'' became. The lyrics of that song are some of the best he ever did, but wow, did people get that song wrong. Like that Stalker mentality Sting's ''Every Breath You Take'' has, that suggests the guy who loved ''Roxanne'' took things a little too far and won't forget her past.

Jon, to me, is an Impressionistic lyric writer. I don't want to limit the man by my estimations of his talents. I don't want to say he shouldn't approach this, or that (is) when he wants to. But like I said, it's not the lyrics that truly discouraged future Yes purchases to enter my household. It was what was happening with the songs. And they just no longer held anything that made me say 'wow'. Almost everything from 1969 to 1994 did. Even things on Going For The One and Tormato.

Damn it!! Dont throw logic at me now man!! ;)
I hate it when other people make me rethink stuff! :lmao:

Ok Ill make you a deal..Ill give Real Love a spin tonight..
You give That That Is a spin tonight..

barter..I like bartering..and seeing as its your birthday...Ill cut you some slack! ;)


At least tell me that The Ladder and or Magnification gave you a few "wow" moments..they sure did for me!

[Scooty]

And now I know how tired I am..I haven't unti lnow voted in this poll :lmao:

[Steve St Thomas]

Damn it!! Dont throw logic at me now man!! ;)
I hate it when other people make me rethink stuff! :lmao:

Ok Ill make you a deal..Ill give Real Love a spin tonight..
You give That That Is a spin tonight..

barter..I like bartering..and seeing as its your birthday...Ill cut you some slack! ;)


At least tell me that The Ladder and or Magnification gave you a few "wow" moments..they sure did for me!

I am your Mr. Spock, throwing pointy eared boomerangs of logic at you. Try not to duck. Or chicken. Or even Asparagus. (Sorry, it's just a vegetable that's been on my mind lately.)

Deal is done! I will listen to That, That Is tonight (I will also get out my English Settlement album and listen to the 5 minute version of the song when it was called Snowman by XTC ;). :P

The Ladder:
Opening of New Language
Some parts of Homeworld, though when I hear Conspiracy's The Unknown (in whole) I get the feeling it would have been a better Conspiracy song.

Magnification:
Can You Imagine

[Scooty]

Can You Imagine


I knew there was a reason why I liked you! ;)

Can You Imagine is simply beautiful...

[Steve St Thomas]

I knew there was a reason why I liked you! ;)

Can You Imagine is simply beautiful...

yea, and it's a REALLY EASY song to play! One of the easiest to play on the album. It's almost as easy as stuff on TALK. Hint hint. Smirk smirk.

There's another boomerang atcha. ;)

[Earl Grey]

yea, and it's a REALLY EASY song to play! One of the easiest to play on the album. It's almost as easy as stuff on TALK. Hint hint. Smirk smirk.

There's another boomerang atcha. ;)

:dog: Whatever DO you mean?! :lmao:

[Steve St Thomas]

:dog: Whatever DO you mean?! :lmao:

Asparagus!

[Steve St Thomas]

But Scoot ----

The reason I loved the song from the get-go were these reasons in particular:

Hearing Squire's voice, taking a lead, on a Yes album was refreshing.

Since Rabin's gone, Anderson is no longer required to sing melody. He often goes back to the one note
chant loop thing he's been doing since 1976 (post - We Have Heaven). It's gotten a bit redundant. Squire's
voice came like a godsend after 4 songs of . . . . . .

Can You Imagine is the closest thing to Fish Out Of Water 2 that I think we're going to get. It would fit so well
on the original it's almost scary. He can still write songs like those that graced that album, even though CYI goes back
a few years in creation. The strings, the melody, the structure, were all Fish Out Of Water material in final form. I wish it had appeared on Fish Out Of Water 2, if that ever came out. And Chris! Get Rabin to stop working on movie scores and do the orchestrations for that album! And get him to do his non-score album while you're at it! It's been years!

[Earl Grey]

Can You Imagine is my favorite MAG track, other than Dreamtime.

I love the loopiness of Dreamtime. It shouldn't have worked, but somehow, strangely, it did.

But back to Keys: Howe was in his element on the studio tracks. I love the classical work he did throughout.

[neilius]

8/10

[Earl Grey]

Yup. Weird time sig. Only YES could have pulled that off in such a pleasing way.

KC did it all the time, but it wasn't melodic. Dreamtime is.

Wild wooley and hell, you CAN whistle it!

[Bluetailfly]

Keys really got me back into Yes after about a 15 year hiatus. I thought the live stuff on the CDs sounded phenomenal, Very clear, yet powerful, especially Howe. After seeing Yes several times in the past 4 years I do believe that Wakeman was not at full strength at the State Theater. He needed more of his analog toys. Anyway I was very psyched to hear them play all of the classic material.
The studio material showed promise, declared that the yesmen were serious about getting back to progressive rock. Steve's playing is beautiful. I do think that they progressed from there to The Ladder and ultimately Magnification.
BTW skip the DVD, that is where the problems of splicing are apparent. The CDs are different.

[Earl Grey]

Keys really got me back into Yes after about a 15 year hiatus. I thought the live stuff on the CDs sounded phenomenal, Very clear, yet powerful, especially Howe. After seeing Yes several times in the past 4 years I do believe that Wakeman was not at full strength at the State Theater. He needed more of his analog toys. Anyway I was very psyched to hear them play all of the classic material.
The studio material showed promise, declared that the yesmen were serious about getting back to progressive rock. Steve's playing is beautiful. I do think that they progressed from there to The Ladder and ultimately Magnification.
BTW skip the DVD, that is where the problems of splicing are apparent. The CDs are different.

How're ya dong Rob? I miss ya! Last time I saw you was in northern CA last year, what a fun time! Best to you friend!

I still listen to that album you gave me in Hawaii... Another trip in order, eh?

Eeegee!:yesbird:

[Bluetailfly]

Thanks for the word Earl. Been having trouble sleeping through the night lately.
Yep, Keys for me said, Yes is out there making again the beautiful music that blew us away in our youth. And they can do it with better sound and technology than was available back in those days. Lastly, I was very encouraged to see that they were playing in a theater, giving me hope that I would get to see them in more intimate venues then they played in the monster 70s.

[Steve St Thomas]

Well Scoot! Did you listen? Huh? Huh? I did. I made the trade, the barter. You know, Real Love for That,That Is on the listening floor.

[Scooty]

Listening now..
back to ya' in 10 minutes :)

[Steve St Thomas]

Listening now..
back to ya' in 10 minutes :)

LOL! Don't rush it!!! I had 19 minutes to listen to!! Listen to it 2x!!!! ;)

[Scooty]

LOL! Don't rush it!!! I had 19 minutes to listen to!! Listen to it 2x!!!! ;)


F**k! Im looking for my Talk CD..Im still in packed box mode..and I know for a fact that I still have boxes back in California..

Would a nice live version that I have suffice?

[Scooty]

Never mind, found it..
Ill be back

[Steve St Thomas]

Never mind, found it..
Ill be back

LOL! The Drama!

Take your time, honest! You still have to sort out the Norwegian Conspiracy!

I'll begin shall I, since I'm ready and pre-prepared [subtle jab, shouldn't hurt, it was a tap! ;) ]

THAT, THAT IS (19.14)

I guess the basic question was, do I find anything in post-1996 Yes that I find listenable, or memorable, or even on a par with earlier works by the Howe configuration of this band, and do I feel it was worth not grabbing Rabin by the jacket before he walked out the door. (LOL)

It was pretty much established that I loved Can You Imagine. I received Magnification as a gift, someone else got it as a gift from someone else and they didn't want it anymore, and they knew I liked Yes a lot. I originally said no, that's cool, I can go without. But they didn't listen!!! And honestly, after listening to it a couple times, I really think it's one of the better things they've done since 1996. Yes, it's Time and a Word Version 2001, but there was some good stuff on it. Not sure about Anderson's lyrics, or where Howe is sometimes in that mix, but it was better than I expected. But Can You Imagine was something else. That was a song.

So Keys really did nothing for me. And then you get into that whole argument of what is Progressive Rock and are these people doing it? That's another thread, and actually thinking about it, I had to say, what the hell is progressive about progressive rock, if the motif, structure, arrangement, themes tend to echo something done between 100 to 400 years ago?? Isn't that Regressive, but with electricity? Anyway, that's another thread.

So what do I like about That, That Is? Well, here we go.

Togetherness

To me, this is the best piece in this whole 'composition'. This is really quite beautiful. But you know what? I don't like Squire's Bass sound behind Howe's multi-tracked guitars. It's a bit thin. And where is some atmosphere? There's a whole bunch of coulda's I hear going on underneath this, that just never appear. Deep, deep keyboard/synth notes, really ethereal synth touches. It could have gone into Close To The Edge par atmospheres, but it just doesn't. I love this section, and I don't expect them to retread previous territory, but there's a whole mood that was missed out on.

Around 3.42 --- This is where the Afro/Cuban/Native American Loop comes in. Can I ask why? Was this actually necessary? The buildup from Togetherness doesn't really need this to go into Crossfire. It's interesting, but I just find it a minute not needed in this song. And since we've talked about Anderson's lyrics (Ghetto Style) please don't tell me it's necessary to go to the Ghetto with Congas and Bongos to illustrate 'the point'.

Crossfire
Well. What can I say? The groove is great. This lasts for 3 minutes. It's all I could really say about it. Like the groove of it.

Giving Things

And this is the hugest detractor from this song that I have. I cannot help but hear, everytime I've heard this section, exactly what this song is. And it's XTC's Snowman from English Settlement. Giving Things makes My Sweet Lord look like a fluke, because to be able to emulate an XTC song is pretty hard. They've been known as ''Quirky'' (a term they hate). Blur came close with it's Park Life, sounding a lot like Sgt. Rock (Is Going To Help Me), but Giving Things and Snowman, sheesh. This is way , way too close to that song to be not brought to court! ;)

Andy Partridge's tale of love gone cold, lyrically, is one of my favourite XTC songs.

It isn't even winter and I'm freezing, freezing,
This sort of feeling isn't pleasing,
And what I want to know, man,
why, oh why,
Does she treat me like a snowman?

She's been building me,
Up quite steadily,
Seems like I've been here years and years and years and years;
I wait patiently,
Froze in history,
All ice-water is tears and tears and tears and tears;

She treats me far too frosty,
This hanging on has cost me dear.

It isn't even winter and I'm shivering, shivering,
Waiting for the love that's not delivering,
What I want to know, man,
Why oh why,
Does she treat me like a snowman?

It seems you would say I was too soft-hearted,
If you made a dunce-cap I'd don it!
People will always be tempted to wipe their feet,
On anything with 'welcome' written on it.

It isn't even winter and I'm freezing, freezing,
And this sort of feeling isn't pleasing,
And what I want to know, man,
Why, oh why,
Does she treat me like a snowman?

The line in bold is my particular favourite.

By the time you get to That Is, this song has become Andy Partridge's Snowman. In syllable, melody, music, rhythm and tempo. All you need is Dave Gregory's staccato guitar line, and you have Yes covers XTC. And this makes this song very hard to listen to on its own merits for me. Because I heard it years ago when it was Snowman.

All In All
To me, parts of this sound like Conspiracy territory. It's interesting, but I hear a bit of Billy Sherwood (or is it Chris . .. hmmmmm). But the thing that kind of bothers me about this section, is Rick Wakeman's choice of keyboard sounds. Great player though he is, he kind of gets ''stuck'' in a sound, and refuses to let go of it. And one of those sounds appears here, and I honestly didn't like it when I first heard it, and I don't like it now. Less annoying than the Birotron of course. Less predictable than his Synth-Horn sound. I love ya Rick, honest, you're such a funny gentleman, and Grumpy Old Men, and your appearance on Never Mind The Buzzcocks were hysterical. But change your synth sounds sometime? Maybe?

How Did Heaven Begin
Snowman togetherness.

Agree To Agree
The groove is cool. Howe's guitar sound is cool. Not sure if I hear Wakeman really contributing a lot to this section by what he's doing. How do I know???(It's a rhetorical question) He just seems to be kind of 'there'. Nothing amazing or 'wow'. But Howe's guitar sound is really nice. I also feel Squire's bass gets buried in this section. Very hard to hear, even at lower volumes. It switches over to the left side of the stereo image (around 11.00), but it's still a bit trebley and thin. I think this is because White's bass drum is so Bassy, and the vocals dominate this whole section. I'm just having a hard time hearing the foundation of the groove, which is Squire's bassline.

I just don't feel this is even close to Close To The Edge/Relayer/Fragile/Yes Album/Tales composition. Not even close. No one says it has to be, but if you want me to jump for joy about a AWHSW line-up, give me something to go on!!! This is 19 minutes, which could have been 15 to 17 really. And honestly, to me, the best minutes of this song are the first 3, with Togetherness.

[Scooty]

Ok Steve,
2 listens in..and Im fully remembering this track..

1) I don't mind it, yet again Im not in love with it, never have been. There are moments of brilliance. The core of its simplicity gives it away though. You think That That is is repetitive?? Real Love has that metal riff for about 6 out of its 9 minutes that really starts to get on my nerves
2) However I LOVE the release of that riff with the big bass note..(especially live) when Chris thumps that E note..and presses down hard on the pedal to rattle my eyeballs...(Buuuuuuuummmmmm..."Call this real love...") Ive always enjoyed that segment.
3) WTF is Jon talking about?? :lmao: nothing new here though..
4) I always argue with those who say the production on Talk is too crunchy. I completely blew out a set of car speakers 2 months after buying this album..its heavey, crisp and clean...
5) Out of the 7 tracks on Talk. I would rate Real Love 5th. Walls and Where Will You Be rate lower to me. The Calling, I Am Waiting (which they were going to play live last year, alas it wasnt to be), State Of Play and obviously Endless Dream...all are superior IMHO.
6) Real Love, final analysis...it has moments, but Im lest unimpressed and bored 3 to 4 minutes in...all of the surprise is gone by then. I still don't hear what you hear in the vocals on this one..not a lot of counterpoint or fascinating harmonies, to my ears..but that's just me :)

Overall..Real Love..gets a 5 1/2...the half point is for the effort. I will tell you though, as I am sure you know, this song ROCKED live...

Ive heard better Rabin/Squire harmonies elsewhere..

Changes, It Can Happen, OBVIOUSLY Leave It..which I find to be a complete and utter vocal masterpiece!!

Anyway my man, Real Love is ok...

That That Is..I find Squire's harmonies to be much more exciting...weaving in and out of Jon, if you will, his bass playing more exciting and the themes, though repeated are at least more interesting to me than the themes presented on Real Love :)

[Steve St Thomas]

Read ya, took it in -- it's all cool! ;)

Real Love for me, just smacks me in the face everytime. For one it's the engineering/production it. That is an amazing sounding album, that TALK album there. Years ahead of it's time that was. I know what you mean about the harmony vocals not being 'intricate' or anything -- I just love to hear Rabin/Squire harmonies, because both of them have great voices!!!

[Scooty]

Oh, we so agree that the Keys 1 studio stuffs production is paper thin...no depth to it at all. Hence why it would have been nice to hear it live..


Im very interested in your comparison of the "All In All" segment to Conspiracy material, I hear that loud and clear, especially in Chris' harmonies in that segment, great comparison there!


AND, 3:42 is where that killer bass line comes in..the speed, the intricate nature of it all..blows the mind. And Im not saying a bassline has to be intricate or impossible to play to be interesting or unique, but the first time I heard this, I freaked out..Chris was back!

Let me also add, I agree with you that the first few minutes and the conclusionof this track are its strongest point..I also agree with you that That That Is is not on par with CTTE, Relayer, GFTO..etc..it feels and sounds very slap dash and thrown together for the middle 12 minutes or so. What's funny though about that, I felt the same way about Mind Drive..until I heard it live...maybe it was because they broke into segments live..I dunno..

[Steve St Thomas]

Oh, we so agree that the Keys 1 studio stuffs production is paper thin...no depth to it at all. Hence why it would have been nice to hear it live..


Im very interested in your comparison of the "All In All" segment to Conspiracy material, I hear that loud and clear, especially in Chris' harmonies in that segment, great comparison there!


AND, 3:42 is where that killer bass line comes in..the speed, the intricate nature of it all..blows the mind. And Im not saying a bassline has to be intricate or impossible to play to be interesting or unique, but the first time I heard this, I freaked out..Chris was back!

Let me also add, I agree with you that the first few minutes and the conclusionof this track are its strongest point..I also agree with you that That That Is is not on par with CTTE, Relayer, GFTO..etc..it feels and sounds very slap dash and thrown together for the middle 12 minutes or so. What's funny though about that, I felt the same way about Mind Drive..until I heard it live...maybe it was because they broke into segments live..I dunno..

Who knows the mysteries of the ear!

I can see why the repetition of Real Love gets to ya. Point taken, understood. I just love that song. It's got atmosphere. It's creepy in sections. The chorus is absolutely huge. There's weird little sounds everywhere. It's just a cool 8 minutes in my book.

Mind Drive I knew I liked when I heard it --- but I can't remember how it goes!!!!! It's my trouble with Yes post-1996. I have to hear the song to actually know what it goes like!!! :D First time in a very long time with Yes music that I don't know it back to back. Gates of Delirium I know back to front, note for note. Mind Drive, I knew I liked it when I heard it, but how it goes??? Um. I don't know.

[Amy]

Mind Drive, I knew I liked it when I heard it, but how it goes??? Um. I don't know.
Give it a few more listens Steve. It's one of the few (post '80?) songs that instantly got my attention. Of course, this is coming from someone who likes That, that is...just about as much. ;)

[Steve St Thomas]

Give it a few more listens Steve. It's one of the few (post '80?) songs that instantly got my attention. Of course, this is coming from someone who likes That, that is...just about as much. ;)

NO!

Well, actually it means I have to pick up KTA2, or KEYSTUDIO, and you know, I've gone like, almost 5 to 10 years without doing so. But since you're crazy, I just might listen to ya. Fruit Insanity --- Plum Crazy.

[Amy]

NO!

Well, actually it means I have to pick up KTA2, or KEYSTUDIO, and you know, I've gone like, almost 5 to 10 years without doing so. But since you're crazy, I just might listen to ya. Fruit Insanity --- Plum Crazy.
LOL! Totally. You shouldn't listen to anything I say....

[Steve St Thomas]

LOL! Totally. You shouldn't listen to anything I say....

Does that actually include what you've just said? Or do I start back from what you originally said?

[Amy]

Seriously, give it another listen Steve. Sounds like you haven't heard it in a while.

[Steve St Thomas]

Seriously, give it another listen Steve. Sounds like you haven't heard it in a while.

What, Mind Drive?? Yea that's true, but I did like it when I heard it. I did feel like, ahhh that's more like it when hearing it. Not sure about the rest though.

I heard That, That Is last night --- so nyah!

[BrianD]

KTA currently rates at 7.38

[BrianD]

After 54 votes, an average of 7.5

[BrianD]

On January 7 2006 after 57 votes KTA rates 7.54

[Bo Locks]

Watch me get flamed...

I don't rate KTA very highly. Why?

1. When I heard they were coming out with a double I thought, "Ack! Topographic Oceans! 2 CDs and not enough ideas to fill them!"
2. Then I heard it was a mixture of live AND studio stuff and I thought, "Oh? Well, Wakey's just back so what's the direction? The studio stuff, right? What? ONLY 2 tracks!!!???"
3. Then it came out and I bought it. And while both live and studio components (I'll call them that for one has NOTHING to do with the other) were ok, it was neither a complete live show nor a complete studio effort. The studio stuff seemed like a taster for the full album to come.
4. Just when you get used to the crap idea, they do it again with KTA2. The comments to 3. apply.
5. Then they release both double CDs together but in a slip case. I buy them again.
6. Then they release Keystudio. I buy it.
7. I see them within a year. They already have a new line-up, a new album and live they play one track from Keystudio. Another 2 months and they drop even that track.
8. So... 4 CDs: I buy them twice, then the Keystudio stuff a third time. Live, they pretty much ignore it.
9. I realise that none of that stuff is relevant to current Yes.

[SonicDeath10]

9 is a very good point. They play mind drive I think, once in awhile, but they ignore the other stuff.

[BrianD]

On July 1 2008 after 66 votes, average 7.64

[Steve Mahoney]

10 from me , it had an Awesome live sound,also love the artwork so,Im a tad biased about it.
It took me back Yes.