What is your rating of Tales from Topographic Oceans?

[BrianD]

This has been done before but not in a way to keep track of the scores - hopefully this will overcome that by allowing you to choose one score per album.

You can base your evaluation on any version of the album including the Rhino remaster

[True Believer]

Love it! Gave it a 9 - I must play this album on average once a week and never tire of it.

[prem895]

To much filler

[Yes2Yes]

I do enjoy most of this album..

[YesfanAndy]

This and GFTO - my favorite YES albums. My "least" favorite part - is the early part of "The Ancient". The rest of it is ok. the whole "sol doop" chanting in the beginning, gets to me after a while.

[gathernear]

Masterpiece. Not the best album, but in the top 3 or 4.


Larry

[Timmo]

Ten. Easy. I love the beginning of "The Ancient." The "filler" statement is grossly exaggerated. What would you cut?

I tend to listen to the whole album in a sitting. It is one of the best "double albums" ever made (up there with The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.)

[heartofthesunrise]

I gave it a 9: it would've been a 10, had it not been for RSOG, which I will honestly admit, I'm not a big fan of. Please don't kill me.

[cinderella]

http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/approvedsmile.gif

It's definitely worth more but I gave it a 10.

[yessongs72]

A solid 10, 21 years later it's like a fine wine gets better with time.

[Hill St.]

9!Love "The Remembering"

[Yes_Fan_4_Life26]

Contreversial.....though a classic album! BUH DUH BUH DA DA I'M LOVING IT!

10

Paulson

[Timmo]

I gave it a 9: it would've been a 10, had it not been for RSOG, which I will honestly admit, I'm not a big fan of. Please don't kill me.It's OK HOTS, we'll forgive the occasional transgression.

Glad to see that there are others who love "The Remembering." Rainbows. Sunlight. Alternate view. Sunlight. Tell me. Someone. Alternate view. Alternate view. Surely. Surely.

[Albedo]

I gave it a 9. More than enough brilliance to make up for it's flaws. Though I still can't get into The Ancient after years of trying, sorry.

[Amy]

Glad to see that there are others who love "The Remembering." Rainbows. Sunlight. Alternate view. Sunlight. Tell me. Someone. Alternate view. Alternate view. Surely. Surely.
Is that the best, or what??!!
I could (and will) listen to that forever.

Tales is an easy 10.

[Jonah]

An 8. The Ancient is a bit of a mess IMO

[pianozach]

This and GFTO - my favorite YES albums. My "least" favorite part - is the early part of "The Ancient". The rest of it is ok. the whole "sol doop" chanting in the beginning, gets to me after a while.

One of my favorites as well. A near perfect album. I don't agree with all of the claims of there being a lot of filler. Well, the middle of "The Ancient" DOES go on a bit long with one of the most annoying guitar sounds ever discovered, but I love even THIS section at least half of the time. The rest of the tracks have NO filler.

A great big 9 and a half, thank you, for TALES!

:1loudspkr

[Whitefish]

An absolute 10!

It has my favorite Yes song on it: "The Revealing Science of God".

The other songs are favorites too.

The ultimate Yes album!

[Timmo]

I gave it a 9. More than enough brilliance to make up for it's flaws. Though I still can't get into The Ancient after years of trying, sorry.Wow, no love for "The Ancient."

I finally got it, but it took years! Now, it's one of my favorites.

[Albedo]

Wow, no love for "The Ancient."

I finally got it, but it took years! Now, it's one of my favorites.

Well maybe another 15 years will do it! I keep trying...

[Ktrek]

I absolutely fell in love with this album when it first came out. I still love it. In fact, I love it more now then I did as a kid. I still hear new things in it. There are musical themes that one would only pick up on after repeated listenings. Pure and simple genius! The Revealing Science Of God and Ritual are my favorite tracks but I usually listen to all four pieces in one sitting.

Kevin

[neilius]

Thi is one of the best albums ever anywhere!

[allgoodyes]

The musical and lyrical brilliance of Tales From Topographic Oceans has withstood the test of time. It was a "10" when it was first released and it is still a "10".

[BrianD]

Tales currently rates 8.83

[Deliriumyes]

I love it I love it I love it

[Hugh Shiebler]

Great album. Unfairly savaged in my view. I mean what was Wakeman's problem? That whole Wakeman thing seemed & still seems very trumped up to me; look at all the publicity it generated.

Looking back on it, the negative reactions were almost inevitable: combinations of jealousy and lack of comprehension. How dare they! Who do they think they are! You have to admit that doing this album at that time took cojones. They had a maybe once in a lifetime opportunity - - almost total creative freedom - - everyone's attention - - and they stepped up to it. Uncompromising and audacious.

This album had a great influnece on me as an 11th grader. I was amazed that a popular group lke this could address MEANINGFUL issues! "Revealing Science" rolled out of the speakers like a prophetic voice summarizing the entire history of life on this planet.

And it was still cool even when I wasn't tripping!

[cactus jon]

I really gave it an 11. This piece of music is in the same catagory as Beethoven's symphonies, J.S. Bach's concertos, or Handel's Messiah. TFTO is a gift through YES to mankind from a higher source !!!

[yesyadda]

Tales sails! I give it a 10-bob easily. Perfecto-mundo!

[Bluetailfly]

A solid 10, 21 years later it's like a fine wine gets better with time.
Don it still blows me when we agree. Tales is a masterpiece. It is a symphony. It is a single statement of purpose. It is a vision. There was a time a couple of years ago when I listened to it every day for a couple of months, usually at night. Each "movement" has been a favorite throughout its rotation, firts RSOG, then The Ancient, then The Remembering, and then back to Ritual. I love it as a whole, but if I have to listen to just one "side", it is Ritual.

[BrianD]

After 48 votes, an average of 8.83

[Mike Watkins]

I give Ritual and RSOG an 11. The other 2? Well, the drugs must have kicked in too hard.

[Sad Preacher]

The Ritual is again...one of my favotie Yes tune....the crescendo leading up to Howe's solo is magnificent......and Jon Anderson's vocals are magnificent

[BrianD]

On January 7 2006 after 56 votes Tales rates 8.82

[JeffRelayer]

10 if I must - but such sheer brilliance should not be so debased...

[luckeydoug1]

A very strong 9.

[hailhail]

Everything about this album is a 10

perfect time for the perfect band to realise the perfect concept album
4 pieces 1perfect rock symphony
the word perfect can not be over used in describing this music
As for the "filler" claims well tell me what would YOU put in their place
each movement blends or juxtaposes with its surrounding pieces
The Ancient tho hard "to get" fills its own space perfectly and is in accord
with all around it (concept)
I also feel the tension within the band can be felt in some of the playing
but I could be well off on that one.
Still a perfect 10 from me


:DJsmilie:

[sunburstbasser]

9. Some of the songs have just a hair more "stuff" than they really need (first Yes album that I can say that of, and one of maybe three). Great music all around, though.

[ronsalehnasir]

I gave it a 10. I also don't understand these comments that Tales draaags or has filler content. It is an amazing work. The more time that goes by, the more very bright and creative people that have now reached middle age stand by it and against the scathing criticism that its release was met with back in the 70s. For example, my next post includes a relatively recent review of Tales contra the Rolling Stone's 1974 review.

[neilius]

Im listening to it now.

[ronsalehnasir]

Daily Vault - January 12, 2004
TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS. Yes. Atlantic Records, 1974. Review by: Herb Hill. Originally published: January 12, 2004 ... You cannot listen to Tales (no one calls it Tales From Topographic Oceans) without first listening to Close To The Edge ...www.dailyvault.com/2004_01_12-hh.html - 13k - Cached - More from this site - Save - Block

[neilius]

I would like an opinion expressed, preferably by a musician, about that riff thats on side three, The Ancient, at 7.03 into that song. What is that riff about?

[neilius]

Mine is that its incomprehensable; its either silly and daft or just a riff that appeared into steve howes brain one day back in '73

[The Whale]

Simply the best album ever. Just my humble opinion.

[RickyG]

I would like an opinion expressed, preferably by a musician, about that riff thats on side three, The Ancient, at 7.03 into that song. What is that riff about?

Ok Neilius,

Here's my official omniscient, all knowing answer to your question:

On one level it's just a riff that appeared into Steve Howe's brain one day back in '73, nothing more, nothing less.

As far as your desire to comprehend it, or finding it incomprehensible, I would suggest that riff, from a musical standpoint is no more incomprehensible or not than any other riff of music, as it, being music, speaks a language and delivers an energy that is not to be comprehended in an intellectual way by the reasoning mind.

On a purely musical analysis level, it serves as an introduction of a musical theme, or new musical material, that is later developed and explored beginning at 10:09 and continuing for about the next two minutes. Listen to Chris's bass line at this point. He expands on and explores the bass line of the 7:03 riff, this bass line of which is a reflection and compliment of Steve's guitar riff.
So at 7:03 this new theme is simply stated in it's most dramatic and quirky expression, and then later revisited as the basis for an extended workout or exploration.

Then there's the conceptual analysis. Why that riff at that time? What "meaning" does it have to the whole of the composition??

Well, the only truly definitive answer to those questions we'll ever get is by asking Steve and Jon. Even then, they might not give us a satisfactory answer!! But here's my view of it:

To quote the liner notes: The Ancient is about "probing still further into the past beyond the point of remembering. Here Steve's guitar is pivotal in sharpening reflection on the beauties and treasures of lost civilizations..."
Since they are reflecting on "lost" civilizations, reaching back "beyond the point of remembering", it would seem necessary to reflect this concept with the creation of a unique and previously unheard music that sounds like no other. A music that digs into pre-memory (pre- "The Remembering"). I say pre-memory, but that should really be seen as "pre-conscious or documented memory", as there are memories of ancient times encoded within our DNA and cellular memory. This whole extended section and development on the Ancient is clearly a focused attempt to explore, or at least reflect upon, that pre-conscious cellular memory of our ancient ancestry. As such I find it to be highly successful, while still existing somewhere peripherally in the realm of a rock band. In fact I find it particularly successful because they are doing it with conventional instruments - yet stretching the conventions of those instruments into new realms. Creating a mood that is mysterious, dark and ancient, while simultaneously being very modern and outside of time.

So coming back to the question of why that riff at that time? Well, I see it as functioning as a sort of musical doorway. A jarring turn of events that points the music into it's intended direction. Like imagine deep sea exploration for instance - that moment when your deep sea diver's capsule is dropped into the water and you begin descending beneath the waves. Suddenly everything has changed and you've been thrust into new and strange yet ancient realms.
Another analogy would be that of stepping into a time capsule and blasting off, as that riff is almost computer techno sci-fi like in it's quirkiness.

That is what I imagine YES attempting to put across at that point. Again the only way to know for sure would be to pick Jon or Steve's memory. Who knows, maybe Alan or Chris even suggested the need for it at that moment.

In a purely musical sense I think it was a good choice to put something dramatic in the arrangement at that point, to stir things up, grab attention and shift awareness.

I hope if nothing else, you at least find this "answer" amusing!!

[RickyG]

PS - Regarding the chanted lyrics at that point in the music: I don't see anything in particular there that suggests the need for or relevance of the 7:03 riff - as far as it being a musical elaboration or response to the lyrics.

I believe that all of those words are the names of the sun or of Sun Gods in various ancient cultures. I have not found the meanings of all of them, but of the ones I have found they are all this.

Sol, sun, Ilios, Ah Kin, Saule, Surie, Qurax....

The 7:03 riff appears in the middle of this chant, dividing it into two sections. Probably for no other reason than musical flow.

[neilius]

That is a great analysis RickyG. It is one of the 'out there' riffs though, probably the most out there riffs in yesmusic, on par with soundchaser imho.

[bmf00]

tales is the best album yes ever made in my humble opinion.the music is timless and never gets old .it is the ultimate reality escape for me . :cloud9:

[JustSayYES]

A very interesting analysis to a very minute section of an epic whole. Of course, interpretation remains in the eye of the beholder. That is what makes art, art. With that being said though, it'd be terribly difficult to convince me that much of the music is more than a logical completion of various motifs and accompaning melodies that create consonant (and ocassionally, dissonant) harmonies for a cohesive, compelling aural experience. But I'm not a musician so...

Anyway, from a long period of time, I only listened to one track from this album - The Revealing Science of God. Everything else seemed to be a monumental disappointment in comparison to the opening track, but about a week ago I resolved to give the entire album a straightforward listen. I've been listening to the entire album for about a week now.

Though RSoG and Ritual are the most commonly respected tracks from this behemoth, we must never neglect either The Remembering or The Ancient for each holds much musical depth. In fact, I am quite tempted to say that this album is the most impressive effort that Yes put forward, so grandiose in scope that it's uniqueness alienated not only critics (but what is the value of a "critic"? I have little regard for them in many capcities...) but fans. The claims of musical padding that have been attributed to Tales in the 33 years since it arrived on store shelves seem to be groundless in my experience, and I find that the pensiveness that they
incited within me, kept me from truly appreciating this work. A closed mind is often our greatest deterrent.

Perhaps my only true disappointment with this album now lies in the rather diminished value that Wakeman's input took within this album. At the same time however, Chris and Steve rarely sound better than they do here, and Alan creates some downward primally enthralling rhythms in many places. (Notably in "The Ancient" and "Ritual") Still, I feel compelled to give it a 9. Not perfect, but it approaches the perfection of which is bases itself on.

[YYY]

I am quite tempted to say that this album is the most impressive effort that Yes put forward, so grandiose in scope that it's uniqueness alienated not only critics (but what is the value of a "critic"? I have little regard for them in many capcities...) but fans. The claims of musical padding that have been attributed to Tales in the 33 years since it arrived on store shelves seem to be groundless in my experience, and I find that the pensiveness that they
incited within me, kept me from truly appreciating this work. A closed mind is often our greatest deterrent.
__________________________________________________ _______________

Happy you realized what you were missing.

I've loved Tales since the day I bought it on it's release. It took me weeks of daily listening to memorize all the movements. I still remember the magic of those glorious first weeks of familiarizing myself to TALES.
It's one of YES' boldest efforts ever. Many have tried but none have suceeded in creating a masterwork of this caliber. During the first several month I rarely listened to just on side. It's was the whole journey or nothing. It was like reading one chapter of a book. It simply made the experience much more intense and those moments more special.
While RSOG & RITUAL have a more familiar progression, the Remembering in contrast takes on it's own unique sensibility. The Ancient is all together a strange brilliant journey within a journey.

[Earl Grey]

TALES makes me sane.

And that's something.

:ele:

[MrZuLu]

It's so good I am listening to the Cobo Hall 74 show with the entire CTTE album and TFTO complete!

[MrZuLu]

It's so good I am listening to the Cobo Hall 74 show with the entire CTTE album and TFTO complete!
in order

[podo]

Tales ?? Well, Im one of the two people who gave it a 4. And Yep, Im one of those people who say there is two much padding. Too much padding ?? the album is chokka full of the stuff. If I ever play this album I only play RSOG and go straight to Ritual. From a vinyl point of veiw they couldve left sides 2 and 3 on the editing floor.. except for the Relayer part.

RSOG is good, but again too much filler. There are good parts that are joined with waffle. There are parts that pick up and rock and I think : yeah, this is good" then after 2 minutes it drop back to waffle, then a bit of structure, and then more waffle.

Ritual is about the only piece that has any kind of coherence as far as I can see.

Plus, I dont go much on the cover art. Its the most UnDean piece Roger Dean ever did.

So there you go.. Do I go straight to hell now ?

[tormatotork]

Eleven

[MrZuLu]

Eleven
Eleven is a Great band...

My favorite LP is Thunk


oh wait this is the Tales thread... sorryhttp://yesfans.com/forum/images/icons/crazy.gif

[The Whale]

Tales ?? If I ever play this album I only play RSOG and go straight to Ritual. From a vinyl point of veiw they couldve left sides 2 and 3 on the editing floor.. except for the Relayer part.
~Plus, I dont go much on the cover art. Its the most UnDean piece Roger Dean ever did.
So there you go.. Do I go straight to hell now ?

Yes.

[ham]

90% Bobbins......................... :pat:

[gathernear]

I still listen to this album a lot. I first got it way back when it was new, in '73? Man, almost 33 years ago. I played that first one again recently. It still sounded good, I've had it since junior high. That's hilarious.


Larry

[Rhayader]

No other band has made a record like it. And thats why i love Yes. Overblown? Pretensious? No. Just damn good music by some of the best muscians going.

[hailhail]

@Ronsalehnasir
Thank you for the link SUPERB REVIEW (could even take the padding
bit ,though I disagree)
To quote
"What Yes were attempting with Tales was another break out of the box. Limits mean nothing to Yes and it is well for all of us that this is so. We need musical explorers to break us out of our cultural tendency to stick in a musical rut. We sure could use one right now 'cause if I have to listen to another pop diva stretch a simple two syllable word into a freakin' four-octave aria I will start looking for the bullets."
BRILLIANT...JUST F@@@ING BRILLLIANT

:theband: :harp:

[podo]

[QUOTE=hailhailWe sure could use one right now 'cause if I have to listen to another pop diva stretch a simple two syllable word into a freakin' four-octave aria I will start looking for the bullets."

:theband: :harp:[/QUOTE]

lol, how true is that ! Ive noticed that the new "pop icons" cant just sing a note, they have to incorporate the 1 yodeling lesson they had in preschool.

[slazman]

You either love it or hate it ... I love it ... 10 (my favourite album)

It really is amazing ... last year at my 50th birthday bash I put it on ... people were there I hadn't seen for 30 years ... suddenly we were back in the 70's (but with different hair!)

[scootwhoman]

Definitely one of the all-time great concept albums, by any band. Personally, I think than it should be listened to in its entirety, just as a symphony is normally listened to all the way through. Certainly, 'The Ancient' is abstract, but so is the idea behind it, genetic memory.

[yes_angel]

Always was my fav and always will be!

[YYY]

Definitely one of the all-time great concept albums, by any band. Personally, I think than it should be listened to in its entirety, just as a symphony is normally listened to all the way through. Certainly, 'The Ancient' is abstract, but so is the idea behind it, genetic memory.


TALES is BRILLIANT. OK. To ask the question is a bit strange to me. I never understood the indifference toward TALES. It's the perfect next step after CLOSE TO THE EDGE. BIGGER, LONGER, MORE ADVENTUROUS, EXPERIMENTAL.
That was the protocol that defined YES in the 70's. "To go where know band has gone before." THE REMEMBERING is magical. The ANCIENT is Beautifully DISORIENTATING and BOLD. And of course TRSOG and RITUAL are pure creative YES at their best. It's a spiritual Masterpiece.

[YESYOUANDI]

Tales ?? Well, Im one of the two people who gave it a 4. And Yep, Im one of those people who say there is two much padding. Too much padding ?? the album is chokka full of the stuff. If I ever play this album I only play RSOG and go straight to Ritual. From a vinyl point of veiw they couldve left sides 2 and 3 on the editing floor.. except for the Relayer part.

RSOG is good, but again too much filler. There are good parts that are joined with waffle. There are parts that pick up and rock and I think : yeah, this is good" then after 2 minutes it drop back to waffle, then a bit of structure, and then more waffle.

Ritual is about the only piece that has any kind of coherence as far as I can see.

Plus, I dont go much on the cover art. Its the most UnDean piece Roger Dean ever did.

So there you go.. Do I go straight to hell now ?

NO----off with your head first!!

Cheers fans

[Hex]

10.

If (and it seems, from when and where I'm sitting, like a fairly sizeable 'if') long after we're all dead and gone, there is still a culture left standing, which is discriminating enough to maintain the historical concept of what is "classical" in art (yes, art - this isn't rock and roll), this is surely going to be considered a serious work and of a high order.

In the meantime, a mere 33 years after its release, if someone could explain to me the purpose of the "percussion interlude" in The Ritual (why it's there and why it sounds so annoying), I'd be very grateful. If it was only there to allow Alan White to "show us what he could do", why didn't he?

It's my only 'niggle'.

[RickyG]

10.

If (and it seems, from when and where I'm sitting, like a fairly sizeable 'if') long after we're all dead and gone, there is still a culture left standing, which is discriminating enough to maintain the historical concept of what is "classical" in art (yes, art - this isn't rock and roll), this is surely going to be considered a serious work and of a high order.

In the meantime, a mere 33 years after its release, if someone could explain to me the purpose of the "percussion interlude" in The Ritual (why it's there and why it sounds so annoying), I'd be very grateful. If it was only there to allow Alan White to "show us what he could do", why didn't he?

It's my only 'niggle'.



To quote from Jon's album notes:

"Life is a fight between sources of evil and pure love. Alan and Chris present and relay the struggle out of which comes a positive source."

It would seem that the musical intention of Alan's section is just that: the struggle out of which comes a positive source.

It could also be seen as a "ritual" soundtrack. Alan's creative expression of a ritual experience: one with an initiatory entrance, a descent into "lower" and darker realms, an internal struggle played out in those lower and darker realms, and a re-emergence into light which brings with it (hopefully) transformation and expanded awareness.

Personally I've never much cared for Alan's studio version of this passage either. I much prefer the intensity and power of the live version with Jon and Chris joining in (and Steve also played drums in the original performances). The irony for me is that, if you view it from the perspective that I just described above, I believe Alan actually does a great job of it. The experience of ritual induced transformation is not supposed to be a pleasant one!!

[Roan's Lady]

10.

If (and it seems, from when and where I'm sitting, like a fairly sizeable 'if') long after we're all dead and gone, there is still a culture left standing, which is discriminating enough to maintain the historical concept of what is "classical" in art (yes, art - this isn't rock and roll), this is surely going to be considered a serious work and of a high order.

In the meantime, a mere 33 years after its release, if someone could explain to me the purpose of the "percussion interlude" in The Ritual (why it's there and why it sounds so annoying), I'd be very grateful. If it was only there to allow Alan White to "show us what he could do", why didn't he?

It's my only 'niggle'.


Gosh, Hex. I sit here in awe. Not only can you discriminate between "its" and "it's", but you have the derring-do to get on here and say that Alan White's percussion in Ritual is "annoying", when the particular portion to which you refer is regarded (and reported) by so many as approaching religious in nature. I also hold "Tales" in high regard, but if the climate of the times long after we're dead and gone is anything like it has been since the release of "Tales", then regrettably, it will likely be regarded as a pile of dung.
But, hey - you never know. At that time, perhaps women will rule the world and there will be a general air of "coming to one's senses". ;)

[RickyG]

But, hey - you never know. At that time, perhaps women will rule the world and there will be a general air of "coming to one's senses". ;)

The only way we will truly move forward into the expansive destinies, explorations, experiences and full on flowering creativity of life that is our promise as humans - the vast dreams that so patiently await us - is when Woman and Man rule together in complimentary and life affirming/life creating balance!!!
Enough of the pendulum swing extremes....!!!


PS - I suspect there may have been such a time here on earth about 10,000 - 13,000 years ago.

[Roan's Lady]

The only way we will truly move forward into the expansive destinies, explorations, experiences and full on flowering creativity of life that is our promise as humans - the vast dreams that so patiently await us - is when Woman and Man rule together in complimentary and life affirming/life creating balance!!!


Yes, yes, I know, Rich...in a perfect world...



PS - I suspect there may have been such a time here on earth about 10,000 - 13,000 years ago.

Let's go back thousands of years before then, before humans came along and threw a wrench into the Works. Or was that thousands of years later? You decide.

(I sense a veering off of this thread into the Land Of Off Topics, shrouded in a murky atmosphere not unlike that of Carteret, New Jersey.)

[RobAdams]

Looks like I'm another rare fan of THE ANCIENT.

[Hex]

Oops. My apologies for being outspoken, but at least I now know that it's actually meant to be ugly. Thank you, RickyG, for cutting through the murk of my ignorance regarding ritual experience. Presumably, then, the descent into the darker realms has no guaranteed positive outcome? And Alan is perhaps at this point presenting the "nadir" ? If so, it makes perfect sense to me now.

And I know what you mean about the live performances. I remember the shapeless mess Jon left his cymbal in.

[RickyG]

Yes, yes, I know, Rich...in a perfect world...

Exactly. If we aim for perfection there's room to fall short a bit yet still come up with something good! It is now time (or time again) in human history to attempt such a perfection of balance.... and I proclaim this to be so!!


Let's go back thousands of years before then, before humans came along and threw a wrench into the Works. Or was that thousands of years later? You decide.
Probably both, thousands of years before and thousands of years after.

(I sense a veering off of this thread into the Land Of Off Topics, shrouded in a murky atmosphere not unlike that of Carteret, New Jersey.)

Oh, the dreaded Land Of Off Topics derailment...

I could say so much more, and we could easily tie it in to themes expressed in TFTO.....

[Sheerah]

Tales is bloody brilliant!
And moving.
And a progressive, compositional masterpiece!

[RickyG]

Oops. My apologies for being outspoken, but at least I now know that it's actually meant to be ugly. Thank you, RickyG, for cutting through the murk of my ignorance regarding ritual experience. Presumably, then, the descent into the darker realms has no guaranteed positive outcome? And Alan is perhaps at this point presenting the "nadir" ? If so, it makes perfect sense to me now.

And I know what you mean about the live performances. I remember the shapeless mess Jon left his cymbal in.

Yes Hex, in true ritual induced transformational experience there is no guarantee of "positive" outcome. In fact occasionally the result can be quite negative.

Of course the elders and wise ones that created Transformative Ritual Experience attempt to stack the odds in favor of positive outcomes for most of the participants, as the point is ultimately to learn and grow and expand - not to render the majority of the tribe lost, confused or possibly dead!!

A modern unstructured ritual experience would be the practice of taking of acid or psylocibin mushrooms. There is no guarantee of encountering expanded awareness, of encountering clearer and higher visions. In fact occasionally some don't make it back to collectively agreed upon "sanity" at all. No telling what demons of the mind one will encounter, and more importantly how one chooses to handle these energies. But many, possibly the majority do achieve transformative breakthroughs in awareness. And of course positive outcomes can be encouraged by way of an adept who acts as a guide.

*****WARNING*****WARNING*****

APPROACHING Land Of Off Topics DERAILMENT BREACH!!!

To tie this back into the topic:
Of course at the end of Alan's "Ritual" excursion YES does achieve Jon's stated aim of a positve light/life source emerging from the struggle.

[Roan's Lady]

A modern unstructured ritual experience would be the practice of taking of acid or psylocibin mushrooms. There is no guarantee of encountering expanded awareness, of encountering clearer and higher visions. In fact occasionally some don't make it back to collectively agreed upon "sanity" at all.



Hm, yes. Well, given that, I'll continue to attain my higher awareness from the act of taking a nice hot bath, followed by the consumption of some homemade chicken soup and a Dove ice cream bar. Some engaging conversation and good music to play and listen to* will no doubt be a catalyst for my own transformative breakthroughs without the risk of, gosh, losing my mind completely.

I think acid and psylocibin mushrooms are highly overrated.






*Such as Tales From Topographic Oceans

[YYY]

10.

In the meantime, a mere 33 years after its release, if someone could explain to me the purpose of the "percussion interlude" in The Ritual (why it's there and why it sounds so annoying), I'd be very grateful. If it was only there to allow Alan White to "show us what he could do", why didn't he?

It's my only 'niggle'.

i'm a bit baffled by the question you ask. Why is it there?
OK the song is about RITUAL. Most religious traditional and indigenous music is expressed through drumming and percussive rhythms. When most of us think of "ritualistic music', we think of African drumming/dance, chanting, etc...
Alan's and the groups drumming section was just an OBVIOUS attempt to capture that TRIBAL transcedental energy to eccentuate the ritualistic theme of the song.

Personally (as a huge fan of African/Cuban/Brazilian drumming since the 70's) I've ALWAYS felt that ALAN's creative role in that section could have been
better. I am absolutely positive that BRUFORD would have created something more polyrhythmic, intricate and exciting.

It's my only 'niggle' as well

[allpurechance]

Hmm!Most interesting discussion of the percussion movement in Ritual taking place, here!

My personal belief is that music was the first form of human communication.And that it's initial guise was percussive, and also perhaps with an, of course, basic vocal accompaniment.This is something we can and will never know for sure, but doesn't it make a certain kind of sense?

With this in mind, the section in question begins to make a perfect kind of sense, and is entirely appropriate where it takes place on the album.

And, yes, in it's initial form on Tales it does have an irritating at times nature.You can almost imagine the primal men and women in the next village or the nearby non - participating cave wishing that they would keep that racket down over there...

"Can't you boys and girls play any nice music?!"

Just a short while later, they do.They certainly do.



Hold me my love hold me today call me round

Travel we say wander we choose love tune

Lay upon me hold me around lasting hours

We love when we play


We hear a sound and alter our returning

We drift the shadows and course our way back home

...



Yes, perhaps Bill Bruford could've done something different with this section of Tales.Perhaps even something better.We will never know, and it is a point which really no longer matters.If Bill had trouble with the recording process of Close To The Edge, it is highly doubtful that he could've ever withstood the machinations which produced Tales.

In addition, Alan White's work on the entire remainder of Tales is exemplary and frankly astonishing in retrospect.Listen if you can to the album on the headphones, the remaster if possible.If you do not own the remaster, make room in your budget for it as soon as you are able.Alan White will wear you out on Tales From Topographic Oceans.He bangs away with an urgency that is somehow primitive, elegant and sophisticated all at the same time.The only time Alan was ever more impressive, or even equally impressive is on Relayer, which is a percussive masterpiece, amongst the other unequalled performances on that great album.Possibly also in places on Drama.

Tales happened the only way it could've happened.Alan White belonged on it, and it would not be Tales without him.

[RickyG]

Hm, yes. Well, given that, I'll continue to attain my higher awareness from the act of taking a nice hot bath, followed by the consumption of some homemade chicken soup and a Dove ice cream bar. Some engaging conversation and good music to play and listen to* will no doubt be a catalyst for my own transformative breakthroughs without the risk of, gosh, losing my mind completely.

I think acid and psylocibin mushrooms are highly overrated.


*Such as Tales From Topographic Oceans

Would "Earth Spiral Water Sound", or say "The Gathering Sun", by some musician named Rich
Good-something also work as an appropriate catalyst within the circumstances of which you describe??

Certainly no one can possibly know if acid or "shrooms" are overrated as a consciousness expanding/doors of perception opening tool unless they have experienced them... in sufficient dosage, under conducive circumstances.

I have heard reputable reports that they are far from being overrated.... not that I could possibly know such things, cough, cough.. from... um, cough, burble,cough ....personal experience. "Really, you've got to believe us"

[Hex]

You're right, YYY, I didn't express my question very well. I didn't mean it in the sense of "why did they put a percussion section in", but rather "why did they put in a section that seems to have deliberately 'abrasive' qualities" and (to my ears anyway) not much else to redeem it.

And yes, I have got the remaster and I know what Alan White is capable of. That's why I presumed this (to me) "grit in the strawberrys" was deliberate, and I wondered why.

[RickyG]

i'm a bit baffled by the question you ask. Why is it there?
OK the song is about RITUAL. Most religious traditional and indigenous music is expressed through drumming and percussive rhythms. When most of us think of "ritualistic music', we think of African drumming/dance, chanting, etc...
Alan's and the groups drumming section was just an OBVIOUS attempt to capture that TRIBAL transcedental energy to eccentuate the ritualistic theme of the song.

Personally (as a huge fan of African/Cuban/Brazilian drumming since the 70's) I've ALWAYS felt that ALAN's creative role in that section could have been
better. I am absolutely positive that BRUFORD would have created something more polyrhythmic, intricate and exciting.

It's my only 'niggle' as well

As much as I'm not the biggest fan of what Alan did on the studio version, as mentioned earlier, I'd have to disagree with the idea that a more African/Cuban/Brazilian style drumming would have been better. Most of what we generally hear in this country from the A/C/B traditions is not the serious ritual drumming. They tend to keep that stuff separate and only use it for the real thing. Any grooving, dancable uplifting A/C/B type drumming would really have missed the point in my opinion. (And there's a big difference between authentic African drumming and Afro-Cuban styles - but that's a whole other discussion.)

As I discussed earlier, particularly if you read Jon's notes, the intention of the music at that point was about the struggle between dark and light forces. And I really believe that Alan was attempting to portray the initiatory transformative experience from the inside. To musically depict the internal tension and struggle, and to do it in a way that drew on and reflected a very long and ancient tradition of using drums and percussion music in that process. But again, to depict the internal psychic struggle and journey through dark and primal energies, finally emerging through an experience of transformation into rediscovered light. To have done an African/Cuban/Brazilian sort of trance drumming groove at that point would never have relayed the experience as they were intending it - even if, and particularly if the resulting music was more "enjoyable" in a happy, uplifting, trance inducing sense.

[Roan's Lady]

Would "Earth Spiral Water Sound", or say "The Gathering Sun", by some musician named Rich
Good-something also work as an appropriate catalyst within the circumstances of which you describe??

Sure, in fact it already has.

Certainly no one can possibly know if acid or "shrooms" are overrated as a consciousness expanding/doors of perception opening tool unless they have experienced them... in sufficient dosage, under conducive circumstances.

I have heard reputable reports that they are far from being overrated.... not that I could possibly know such things, cough, cough.. from... um, cough, burble,cough ....personal experience. "Really, you've got to believe us"


I guess I'm coming from a different place, Rich. I'm imagining the following scenario: The day inevitably comes when my kid runs into people who tell him all the good things they'e experienced with acid and mushrooms. At that time, I hope and pray with every single atom of my being that my kid doesn't take the "Well, I guess I'll see for myself, can you make sure circumstances are 'conducive' while I give 'em a try?" stance.

Drugs scare me and always have to varying degrees, even the few I've tried with (by the grace of God) little ill effect.

Uh oh, we are veering again. Let us course our way back home.

[RickyG]

Yes, when you put kids, modern forms of drug abuse - as opposed to controlled and intentional ritual use - and the whole context of our contemporary society and it's general fear of non-ordinary realities into the mix, it can get kind of messy.


Now back to Tales.... however, this does relate to the discussion of traditional ritual practices, including practices that a certain member or two of YES have alluded to engaging in.

[Roan's Lady]

...modern forms of drug abuse - as opposed to controlled and intentional ritual use...

A hazy boundary between the two, in my opinion, no matter what opposing views prevail.


Now back to Tales.... however, this does relate to the discussion of traditional ritual practices, including practices that a certain member or two of YES have alluded to engaging in.



I'd guess that a decent amount of Yes music was conceived at least in part while at least a couple of its writers were engaging in, uh, "traditional ritual practice", but I'd like to imagine that they could have come up with such incredible compositions without having been under the influence of mind-altering substances. Perhaps my naivete is rearing its ugly head.

[RickyG]

A hazy boundary between the two, in my opinion, no matter what opposing views prevail. I won't go on about this here as it really is a topic for a different thread.



I'd guess that a decent amount of Yes music was conceived at least in part while at least a couple of its writers were engaging in, uh, "traditional ritual practice", but I'd like to imagine that they could have come up with such incredible compositions without having been under the influence of mind-altering substances. Perhaps my naivete is rearing its ugly head.

This really was not my point. I think it's a huge misconception by some people that progressive, exploratory, innovative music like Tales, or CTTE, is a direct result of psychedelic drug use, or even marijuana (which is a mild psychedelic, not a narcotic regardless of what the feds say).

I seriously doubt, based on my own experience and the observation of other musicians, that very much if any of these albums were conceived while on psychedelics. What is much more likely is that this music is the result of intelligent, searching, exploring, spiritually inquisitve, adventurous minds. And that psychedelic use was a part of that exploration in consciousness. So it's part of the exploratory path, which opens doors to non-ordinary realities and allows for the perception of previously unseen connections and experiences. And then from and within the context of that greater search, and during that time period, this music was conceived.

Maybe it sounds like I am splitting hairs here, but I really think it is different from the idea that one can just drop a couple of hits of acid and then visions of Tales From Topographic Oceans comes spiraling through. It's in the integration of the psychedelic experience, and what was perceived in it, into ones daily life... through meditation, eating healthier cleaner foods, studying spiritual texts, practicing yoga, qigong etc, out of which the ability to realize such grand visions is much more likely to occur. Clearer to the source....


PS -

And as far as good ol' Mary Jane... when one is doing it on a daily basis, having it for breakfast, it ends up being more like a high powered cup of coffee that just gets you revved back up to where you'd normally be if you weren't doing it all the time in the first place and suffering from the deliterious mind clouding after effects. Well, a little more pro-active than a cup of Joe for sure.... but a much higher clearer state is actually obtained through disciplined "clean" energy practices and purifications. Yes, constant and clearer to the source....

Yeah, Jane gives you something different than Joe, but environmentally safe and renewable "clean energy" is ultimately far better than either!!!

[Roan's Lady]

I won't go on about this here as it really is a topic for a different thread.




This really was not my point. I think it's a huge misconception by some people that progressive, exploratory, innovative music like Tales, or CTTE, is a direct result of psychedelic drug use, or even marijuana (which is a mild psychedelic, not a narcotic regardless of what the feds say).

I seriously doubt, based on my own experience and the observation of other musicians, that very much if any of these albums were conceived while on psychedelics. What is much more likely is that this music is the result of intelligent, searching, exploring, spiritually inquisitve, adventurous minds. And that psychedelic use was a part of that exploration in consciousness. So it's part of the exploratory path, which opens doors to non-ordinary realities and allows for the perception of previously unseen connections and experiences. And then from and within the context of that greater search, and during that time period, this music was conceived.

Maybe it sounds like I am splitting hairs here, but I really think it is different from the idea that one can just drop a couple of hits of acid and then visions of Tales From Topographic Oceans comes spiraling through. It's in the integration of the psychedelic experience, and what was perceived in it, into ones daily life... through meditation, eating healthier cleaner foods, studying spiritual texts, practicing yoga, qigong etc, out of which the ability to realize such grand visions is much more likely to occur. Clearer to the source....

Rich, I understand your point regarding the improbability of a direct link between the use of drugs and the fruition of a creative product such as that of Yes. What I have a hard time understanding is why the necessity for the psychedelics if all the other paths to spiritual enlightenment are bing traveled upon, including those that you mention - which are considerably less dangerous to the body and mind, or potentially so.


And as far as good ol' Mary Jane... when one is doing it on a daily basis, having it for breakfast, it ends up being more like a high powered cup of coffee that just gets you revved back up to where you'd normally be if you weren't doing it all the time in the first place and suffering from the deliterious mind clouding after effects. Well, a little more pro-active than a cup of Joe for sure.... but a much higher clearer state is actually obtained through disciplined "clean" energy practices and purifications. Yes, constant and clearer to the source....

Yeah, Jane gives you something different than Joe, but environmentally safe and renewable "clean energy" is ultimately far better than either!!!

Well, despite all of that, I believe I'll stick to the Colombian I've been consuming for years - Starbucks Ground, that is.

[allpurechance]

Manifold subsequent live versions (as is so usual with Yes) have driven home the validity of the sequence in question, as well as the entirety of the piece itself, by which I mean not only Ritual, but all of Tales...

...save The Remembering, and the opening eleven or so minutes of The Ancient, which might be asking a bit much from life to expect to ever hear again in the live setting...

...yet, we can live on in hope!

[YESYOUANDI]

When I die, it will be one the five albums I will hold with me.

Cheers fans.

[YESYOUANDI]

Old Rick does talk some BOLLOX on Yesspeak, about my beloved "TALES".

Cheers fans.

[gathernear]

When I die, it will be one the five albums I will hold with me.

Cheers fans.

Whoa, that's way more than a desert island disc!

[gathernear]

Old Rick does talk some BOLLOX on Yesspeak, about my beloved "TALES".

Cheers fans.

Yes, he does. But we can forgive him.

[J. Rocket Squirrel]

IMO Tales is simply the best music ever recorded. It is surprising that Rick didn't like it since he delivered some great contributions. "Science" and "Remembering" are complete, whole pieces of music that never fail to inspire. In addition, the end parts to "Ancient" and "Ritual" are equally moving (reminding one of "Soon" from Gates). This record fulfills Jon's description of it in that it takes one on a journey to the Soul, beyond the point of remembering, only to finally rest in the eternal Sun.

[yes_angel]

IMO Tales is simply the best music ever recorded. It is surprising that Rick didn't like it since he delivered some great contributions. "Science" and "Remembering" are complete, whole pieces of music that never fail to inspire. In addition, the end parts to "Ancient" and "Ritual" are equally moving (reminding one of "Soon" from Gates). This record fulfills Jon's description of it in that it takes one on a journey to the Soul, beyond the point of remembering, only to finally rest in the eternal Sun.So nicely put! Tales has always been a fav of mine! btw,,,,welcome to the site!

[Scottie]

"RickyG & Roan‘s Mi Lady"

How deep and very intriguing, please remind me as often as necessary never to match wits with either of you. Not! that I would EVER be that "presumptuous" to even come a minuscule of coming close.

After all it is indeed a double album of experimentation and differing opinions isn't it?

The music…. Well it speaks and projects for itself.

Ritual - Studio???? Live!!!!! I never in my wildest dreams thought it had much merit until I witnessed first hand for the first time during “Masterworks” what a 3 person drum solo was. BTW my own experimentation days were long gone by that time :D

[yes_angel]

"RickyG & Roan‘s Mi Lady"

How deep and very intriguing, please remind me as often as necessary never to match wits with either of you. Not! that I would EVER be that "presumptuous" to even come a minuscule of coming close.

After all it is indeed a double album of experimentation and differing opinions isn't it?

The music…. Well it speaks and projects for itself.

Ritual - Studio???? Live!!!!! I never in my wildest dreams thought it had much merit unit I witnessed first hand for the first time during “Masterworks” what a 3 person drum solo was. BTW my own experimentation days were long gone by that time :Dand RSOG is awesome "Live" on Keys

[Scottie]

and RSOG is awesome "Live" on Keys

!!!

In addition too during the "Classic Tour" '02. Pure bliss....

[plodder]

10.

My favourite YES album.

I was lucky enough to see them tour it in '73 in Cardiff UK.

[Starless]

Ultimate masterpiece from Yes !!!
It's nothing more to say !

[prem895]

The one Yes album I don't really like.Too much filler for me.

[podo]

The one Yes album I don't really like.Too much filler for me.

agreed. They should have spent a lot more time editing and then made it a single album. It wouldve then been superb.

[YesForSure.]

What are you guys on? I find it sick. It's already a superb album, the best thing ever created in the history of energy.
How many times have you guys played the from the beginning second of RSOG to the last note of Ritual? I had to listen I few times, and when I finally got it it was amazing.

[pedro skychaser]

Tis fully sick!!! sammy mac the rock kid +i would play soccer forcings back for the length of sides1+2 in an underground carpark with the stereo on full bore...floating in high energy 4 sure...hope our socceroos are training to it!!what's guus' phone #?

[podo]

What are you guys on? I find it sick. It's already a superb album, the best thing ever created in the history of energy.
How many times have you guys played the from the beginning second of RSOG to the last note of Ritual? I had to listen I few times, and when I finally got it it was amazing.


How many times ?? Too many to count.

RSOG is generally great, but it does tend to drift between moments of brilliance and then just downright rubbish

Sides 2 and 3 (for the vinyl version) is mostly tedious at best, except for a few moments of brilliance

Ritual is amazing from go to wo.

So, take the bad bits from RSOG, replace them with the good bits from sides 2 & 3 and keep Ritual as is.. result.... superb single album

[True Believer]

Sides 2 and 3 (for the vinyl version) is mostly tedious at best, except for a few moments of brilliance
Rog! The Remembering is incredible - from go to whoa!

[podo]

Rog! The Remembering is incredible - from go to whoa!


only if you play it backwards

[True Believer]

only if you play it backwards
You're a sick man. How can you say that, especially about the ending? It gives me goosebumps, it's so amazing!

[Sheerah]

You're a sick man. How can you say that, especially about the ending? It gives me goosebumps, it's so amazing!

That's why you wear a YES necklace and Rog doesn't, I reckon.

[luckeydoug1]

Without a doubt, my most favorite of the "classic 3". A truely remarkable album. I enjoy it from start to finish and have listened to it several times on multiple days. I certainly wouldn't change a thing.

[Trooper Jim]

I would have given it a 10 in '74, when I first heard that amazing double album. I loved every note, including The Ancient! The years have not diminished my admiration and I still give it a 10. Brilliant stuff.

[hailhail]

DEATH TO THE DETRACTORS

A bit extreme I know...but still..

[Yes.2]

A 10 is just not good enough for this album....

[jtownyesfan]

I gave it a sold three. This was the frist bad album Yes released.

[robin chun]

ELEVEN (out of 10)

Robin

[cjreyes]

I gave it an 8, perhaps a little bit more. There is some very excellent stuff on there, but parts of it tend to drag on a bit. Ritual sounds so much better Live, so the studio version is a bit of a dissappointment.

[new_sum_do_solve_ay]

The master copy of Tales should be delivered into the hands of the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) and sent to Paris to be encased in glass surrounded by an inert gas and kept under guard as the Ultimate Standard of its type.

[barra1]

This album is such an astonishing and brilliant piece of music that many many years from now , musical historians will still talk about it. 10/10

ferg

[Yes.2]

Top notch. I don't think they were quite prepared to record it properly though.

[Yes.2]

The master copy of Tales should be delivered into the hands of the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) and sent to Paris to be encased in glass surrounded by an inert gas and kept under guard as the Ultimate Standard of its type.


More and more of the things you say just makes me smile.:beerchugr:

[McFragile]

Gave it an 8 on basis I love 80% of it and that 80% for me was Yes at their absolute peak.

RSOG - bursting with ideas and creativity, beautiful melodies. The Ancient - stunning percussion, hypnotic passages, lyrical ending. Ritual - still the piece I save till last on any compilation I put together.

But to me, sadly, The Remembering was a great seven or eight minute song padded to death because they'd committed themselves to this massive, four 20-minute sides epic.

[YYY]

To much filler

Dissenters often say that TALES has filler. (The Wakeman Posse). But no one ever gives details of what they consider to be filler in TALES. (As if we lovers of TALES should automatically know). I'd really like to know what specifically should be negated from it.

Anyway, TALES as I've said many times) is' BRILLIANT. Of all the music I've loved in my lifetime (including CTTE/RELAYER), TALES is an entirely unique adventure. Not only is it one of my top 10 prog albums of ALL TIME. It is different amongst other YES albums. It's various passages and moods melt into one another like melting sticks of butter or forcefully blend like colliding galaxies. It's truly a DREAMSCAPE experience. It has no more filler than, I GET UP, I GET DOWN in CTTE. Each movement is vital and perfect placed and paced to enhance the progression of the total epic.

Maybe the dissenters just don't understand THE REMEMBERING and THE ANCIENT. This is YES remember...they create VISCERAL music. 'REMEMBERING starts out with the childlike keyboard & guitar melodies. Y? To send your heart and thoughts back to a time BEFORE your time when we were closer to the wonders of Nature (aka GOD(s). HIGH THE MEMORY!!! OK. It's sweet and simple for a reason. AND IT WORKS in that context brilliantly.

THE ANCIENT again reflects the surreal grandeur of the MONUMENTS to the Gods of old. It music feels like the message

Compositionally TALES is a PERFECTLY balanced epic composition. So I chose No. 11 on the rating scale!

[yesyadda]

Wow, 3Y. Well stated and I couldn't agree more!

[plodder]

Just like Bo Derek, a sweet 10.

[mysticinsect]

I first bought Topographic back in high school, early '80s, during my first pass at Yes fandom. I have to say, at the time, I found it too much to take in. Listened to it once, maybe twice, and the only things I think I liked were the opening vocals on side one, and the opening guitar riff on side two. (I couldn't even be bothered at the time with knowing the titles or understanding the concepts.)

Towards the end of high school, I went off progressive rock pretty much, and although I still loved the Yes that I *had* connected with (of all the prog I'd listened to), such as The Yes Album, Fragile, CttE, I practically didn't listen to them for about 20 years.

Upon joining seYes over six months ago, I rediscovered all the music I'd already enjoyed, and also found myself being drawn into appreciating the stuff that I hadn't given a chance (or hadn't been ready for) at 15/16. Not only has my love and admiration grown for the brilliant work on the albums I've already named, but the mid- to late-70s material also came out to me, most specifically Relayer and Topographic. I now can't *believe* that I didn't used to appreciate Tales from Topographic Oceans, I find it positively awe-inspiring.

If I have to give it a number, I'd say 10/10 -- same for everything from The Yes Album through to Relayer.

peace and love,
Edward

[Bradders]

Well said that man!! I agree........buy me a pint will ya?

[mysticinsect]

Well said that man!! I agree........buy me a pint will ya?

LOL! I must owe you at least one by now! :beerchugr:

[yes_angel]

LOL! I must owe you at least one by now! :beerchugr:and when you give one to Chris,,he can pass it to me,,,,for the sake of RSOG!! wooooooohooooo xoxox

[Dr Yes]

Dissenters often say that TALES has filler. (The Wakeman Posse). But no one ever gives details of what they consider to be filler in TALES. (As if we lovers of TALES should automatically know). I'd really like to know what specifically should be negated from it.

Anyway, TALES as I've said many times) is' BRILLIANT. Of all the music I've loved in my lifetime (including CTTE/RELAYER), TALES is an entirely unique adventure. Not only is it one of my top 10 prog albums of ALL TIME. It is different amongst other YES albums. It's various passages and moods melt into one another like melting sticks of butter or forcefully blend like colliding galaxies. It's truly a DREAMSCAPE experience. It has no more filler than, I GET UP, I GET DOWN in CTTE. Each movement is vital and perfect placed and paced to enhance the progression of the total epic.

Maybe the dissenters just don't understand THE REMEMBERING and THE ANCIENT. This is YES remember...they create VISCERAL music. 'REMEMBERING starts out with the childlike keyboard & guitar melodies. Y? To send your heart and thoughts back to a time BEFORE your time when we were closer to the wonders of Nature (aka GOD(s). HIGH THE MEMORY!!! OK. It's sweet and simple for a reason. AND IT WORKS in that context brilliantly.

THE ANCIENT again reflects the surreal grandeur of the MONUMENTS to the Gods of old. It music feels like the message

Compositionally TALES is a PERFECTLY balanced epic composition. So I chose No. 11 on the rating scale!

Dissenters perhaps are too quick to jump on Wakeman's band wagon - he being the original claimant of the 'too much filler' line.

[Bradders]

I dont understand any Yes fan that doesn't like Tales. To me it IS Yes. It epitomises everything that classical / prog rock is about. If you dont like Tales.....well you don't really like Yes......Errrrrrr IMHO!

[Yesshows77]

I gave it a solid 8, still cant appreciate The Ancient.

When you next have an opportunity for relaxing, try playing The Remembering with the lights off and sound UP. Some of the best keyboard sounds you'll ever hear!!

I would love them to play this on their next tour, you can just imagine the spin they could put on this now....combined with Lights, Lasers & dry ice...What a combination!!

[allen toth]

A Very Solid 9.

[yesyadda]

Yay Bradders! I like your HO. ;)

[True Believer]

I dont understand any Yes fan that doesn't like Tales. To me it IS Yes. It epitomises everything that classical / prog rock is about. If you dont like Tales.....well you don't really like Yes......Errrrrrr IMHO!
:appl[1]: :appl[1]: :appl[1]:

[pedro skychaser]

........................TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS?

.................it's just

..........................SOFT EGO MANIACAL ORCHESTRA POP

[BRINGRABINBACK]

Listened to it 1 time in my entire life.
ZZZZZZZZZZZz

[allen toth]

Listened to it 1 time in my entire life.
ZZZZZZZZZZZz

Most Yes Albums take more than one listen to "get". Tales would be at the top of the list in that department. Try a couple more listens. It's a Freakin' MASTERPIECE!!

[Shadoshi]

I would've given this album a ten for just "The Remembering" and it's beautiful musicianmanship, but either way. Masterpiece. I give it a 9 just because a little bit of RSOG and Ritual aren't the greatest. But the rest of the music is pure frickin genius.

[yesyadda]

I would've given this album a ten for just "The Remembering" and it's beautiful musicianmanship, but either way. Masterpiece. I give it a 9 just because a little bit of RSOG and Ritual aren't the greatest. But the rest of the music is pure frickin genius.

Ka-schwiiiingggg!

:thumbup:

[KPatrick]

Maybe the dissenters just don't understand THE REMEMBERING and THE ANCIENT. This is YES remember...they create VISCERAL music. 'REMEMBERING starts out with the childlike keyboard & guitar melodies. Y? To send your heart and thoughts back to a time BEFORE your time when we were closer to the wonders of Nature (aka GOD(s). HIGH THE MEMORY!!! OK. It's sweet and simple for a reason. AND IT WORKS in that context brilliantly.

Ah yes, the refuge of the ProgSnob: we don't "understand." Or that there's anything to be "understood" in the first place. Great argument-enders, because they're impossible to argue against.

I understand it; it just wasn't a life-changing experience for me, or even an exciting one. There are some great individual passages, and when it's all said and done, this is Yes. They're going to put across music that we enjoy, overall. But this music starts, and then just doesn't really go anywhere. Whatever style of music you're making, at whatever level of complexity, there's something to be said for "beginning, middle, and end." The fact that these songs stop after about 20 minutes doesn't mean there's a path between the two points -- or, if you're going to insist that there actually is some structure that we are failing to grasp, the structure is well below the level of achievement that Yes had on "Close to the Edge," "Gates" or "Awaken." I'll freely admit that I can only have a certain number of unrelated musical themes thrown at me before I quit trying to follow it. Alternatively, I can only listen to Yes groove along slowly on one chord while Steve solos over it for so long before I lose interest.

If that makes me an unsophisticated music listener, so be it. It's not the fact that "The Remembering" starts out slow and simple that bothers me; it's that it lazes along like that for about 10 minutes. I actually like that arrangement and chord sequence, just not for that long. Especially after having listened to "The Revealing," which has more than its share of mellow, blissed-out passages in it to begin with. Mellow-blissed outness, as a governing mood, is one of the big things I don't like about this album. It's prevalent throughout Sides One, Two and Four, the differences among them being (to my ears) that there seems to be more rational connection between the sections of music on "Ritual" than on the other two.

And when I say MORE rational connection, I still don't think it's on par with Yes's best work. Why the drum solo? Why is it so long? What does it have to do with anything, on any portion of the album, that came before it? Again, I feel more connection on "Ritual" than I do on any of the other songs, but even "Ritual" roams afield.

"The Ancient" is nonsense. Steve and Jon have one nice section with "Leaves of Green." As for the rest of it, I've heard that it's an attempt at world music, and at that time in their careers, Jon and Steve were punching way above their weight class. I hate to fault them for the effort, but "effort" doesn't translate onto a record; all we're left with is successful or unsuccessful execution.

Whatever style of music you're trying to make, at whatever level of complexity, there is a premium on logic and immediacy. I only see either of those occasionally in TALES. That doesn't mean I need to be spoon-fed.

We get the joke; we just don't think it's funny.

[Bluetailfly]

I would've given this album a ten for just "The Remembering" and it's beautiful musicianmanship, but either way. Masterpiece. I give it a 9 just because a little bit of RSOG and Ritual aren't the greatest. But the rest of the music is pure frickin genius.

yeah its not quite a ten, but more often the nought, I chose Tales for a nighttime journey when I want to be transported away, within and without, a deep journey. Yeah, I listen to this CD more than any other by Yes.

[GoodSamaratan]

To me Tales is the 9th Symphony of rock. It is the most majestic expression of its music genre and it just doesn't get any better than this.
I truly don't understand how anyone can chose and pick songs or parts of this album and not "get" or dislike the rest.
The entire musical adventure just fits so well I cannot think of one second of time I would cut from this glorious album.
There's nothing like getting lost in its musical landscape, as if I'm walking to an unknown destination in a distant but beautiful planet. At times it feels as if I'm floating over it.
It's like a dream I don't want to wake up from. The beautiful melodies just keep coming one after the other after the other flowing in and out of my mind.
Tales is my meditation, my prayer, my soul. Every time I listen to it I give my thanks to Yes and to life by kissing the album cover after the last notes in Ritual, and I sit there in silence for the longest time.

[yesyadda]

Wow. Wonderful post. Thanks.

[Jackaranda]

It's Ok.

[Squireaholic]

Tales is, for me , a musical milestone. I firmly believe that three hundred years from now, this suite will be studied by scholars as an example of late 20th century music. I have personally exposed hundreds of people to TFTO; some love it, some hate it, some don't get it at all, but they all agree that it's amazing!

[yes_angel]

It works for me!

[JoEy YeS]

AMAZING LIVE! I gave it an 8 because I like the energy and changes made when done live.

[BillGuitar]

Tales is, for me , a musical milestone. I firmly believe that three hundred years from now, this suite will be studied by scholars as an example of late 20th century music. I have personally exposed hundreds of people to TFTO; some love it, some hate it, some don't get it at all, but they all agree that it's amazing!

I agree.
Except three hundred years from now, there will be nothing left to study...

Suck it up, people. Existence is a b!tch! :lmao:

[cvp18]

I had to give Tales a 10. Pure magic like 4 different movements of a symphony. i suppose i see Tales today as a musical history of humankind. (ok, i know i am a goof ball, lol) this was also the tour i saw Yes for the first and only time in 1974 in Philly. although i went up to the rafters in the Spectrum to get a better view, the music just blew me away, and i was in my own heaven.

[yesplease]

This has been done before but not in a way to keep track of the scores - hopefully this will overcome that by allowing you to choose one score per album.

You can base your evaluation on any version of the album including the Rhino remaster

This album is the ultimate expression of "symphonic rock". Truly symphonic in scale (in a Beethoven 9 / Mahler 8 fashion, not little Haydn/Mozart symphonies) and development. There is "filler" - but check how many classical symphonies state & restate, develop & play variations on themes. I doubt ol' Ludwig van B would be accused of filling!

I'd gnaw my own legs off at the hip to see Yes perform Tales again in it's entirety!

[YYY]

I'd gnaw my own legs off at the hip to see Yes perform Tales again in it's entirety!

__________________________________________________ __

I agree, I'd gnaw your leg off as well

[BillGuitar]

I agree, I'd gnaw your leg off as well

"Pa, he just said "gnaw!"
"Awwwwwwwww..."
"I always knewed you could draw."
"You better git, Ma!"

Start gnawing, Hannibalicious.
Because it's gonna take an army of pachyderms
to get Yes to play the entire tire again,
tirelessly,
sans curry,
live...

:hearts:

[Earl Grey]

Maybe we should start a self fulfilling prophesy here.

The ideal centerpiece for YES's 40th Anniversary Tour would be TALES: All the way through... Or at least most of the way through. Rick might balk at The Ancient, but he likes TRSOG, and he seems to be ok with Ritual. I think they could talk him into playing most of TALES, in fact, all the members of the band have mentioned at one time or another, that they wish the CD format had existed when they had recorded the album. Without the 'filler', TFTO would have fit perfectly on one CD...

Here's YES's chance: If they revisited TFTO next tour, and recorded one of the resultant shows, it would make a really nice live album, as well as making a lot of fans very happy!

EG:yesbird:

[YYY]

Some albums of YES I simply play when I'm in a particular mood. Tales & Relayer are two of them. I try not to over indulge on either of them but generally listen to the whole album doing those moments. I work at home so it's possible to create and trance-out on TALES at the same time. The volume has to be loud also. It really is a brilliant unique YES recording.

I still can't figure out where's the filler so many talk about.

[GoodSamaratan]

I still can't figure out where's the filler so many talk about.

LOL!!! Same here.

[yesyadda]

I may have already posted this, but sometimes I purposefully avoid listening to TFTO because it absolutely drains me emotionally. Up, down, high, low, smile, cry. Oofah. But y'know that's how love is.

[Scottie]

I may have already posted this, but sometimes I purposefully avoid listening to TFTO because it absolutely drains me emotionally. Up, down, high, low, smile, cry. Oofah. But y'know that's how love is.
Oofah!

I love that/it! Tales ya know, the album?!

Did this album ever come with inshtructions?

[yesyadda]

Inshtructions? LOL! Nope- but I did read "Autobiography of a Yogi". ;)

[Scottie]

Inshtructions? LOL! Nope- but I did read "Autobiography of a Yogi". ;)
And all this time I thought is was inshpirited by Yoga. Stretch and you will be enlightened. ;)

[Steve Mahoney]

Tales is an LP which still and will always stand the test of time.
Just like me I guess.
This is thee prog album of all time,hands down.
Crimson,In The Court is next.
There is something about this lp,that just sticks.
The album artwork,to the grumpy keyboard player,the fact it is a double lp,its just the quintessential prog album and should be in all prog collections.
The fact it can stir such different opinions from people are what makes this record(what were they) so interesting.
Now where the heck is Porcupine Trees Fear Of A Blank Planet.

Steve

[YYY]

Tales is an LP which still and will always stand the test of time.
The album artwork,to the grumpy keyboard player,the fact it is a double lp,its just the quintessential prog album and should be in all prog collections.Steve


Exactly!!!!
I remember when no progband could touch YES. Soon as you thought you'd heard it all, YES came up with 'The Yes Album." wow!...Then BAM! - "Fragile'. And then when you were creaming over Supper's Ready, WALLAH! "Close to the Edge" sent us all over the top. And if that wasn't enough. TALES simply took us to an even deeper & higher level of progedelic euphoria.

[GoodSamaratan]

Exactly!!!!
I remember when no progband could touch YES. Soon as you thought you'd heard it all, YES came up with 'The Yes Album." wow!...Then BAM! - "Fragile'. And then when you were creaming over Supper's Ready, WALLAH! "Close to the Edge" sent us all over the top. And if that wasn't enough. TALES simply took us to an even deeper & higher level of progedelic euphoria.

Goodness, those were the days, eh? I wonder if we'll ever see anything like it in our lifetime? I kind of doubt it. We're gonna have to settle for Nirvana, and then Pearl Jam....

[CybrKhatru]

Great thread!!!

I gave it a 9, and not because I don't love TFTO, because I do! Beautiful stuff. It took me about 6 years to fully immerse myself in it, but it was worth the wait. I agree with Gar that it can be an emotionally draining listening experience (meant in a good way).

CTTE is my "10" Yes album---for me it's just that much better than the rest.... TFTO joins Relayer, TYA and GFTO in the "9" category.

--Matt

[Faceintheplace]

I absolutley love this album. I give it a 9 and a half. The only thing that keeps it from being perfect for me is although I like the Remembering I think that it could have been a bit shorter.

[Wakey's #1 Fan]

I chose 9...I really love that album and also the cover artwork is fantastic! The only thing I don't like are the first seconds of the drum part in Ritual. I prefer the Tsongas version of that. That's why I chose 9 and not 10.

[islandsofarabia]

yes album...10
fragile...10
close to the edge....10
yessongs......10
tales.......11
relayer......10
going for the one.....10
tormato.....10


:radiotape

[grandslamms]

We LOVE Topographic Oceans here in South Wales.......especially a Japanese Vinyl Pressing on 'Virgin Vinyl' - must be one of my most treasured possessions........ along with my wife, of course (she's standing next to me....!).

Caron.

[Timmo]

I'd give a ten to Relayer and CTTE.

Tales and TYE get a 9.5.

GFTO gets a 9, but I give Awaken an 11.

[Original_Shifty]

.....but I give Awaken an 11.

Can I say "I love you" and still be hetro?

[mageestout]

Edit THE ANCIENT and it would be perfect!

THE REVEALING SCIENCE and THE RITUAL are brilliant!!!!! THE REMEBERING is pretty good too. However, in THE ANCIENT when Steve goes crazy on the pedal steel sounding like cats in heat I'm done for. If they could edit the LEAVES IF GREEN section out and trash the rest...

[tim@seyes]

Edit THE ANCIENT and it would be perfect!

THE REVEALING SCIENCE and THE RITUAL are brilliant!!!!! THE REMEBERING is pretty good too. However, in THE ANCIENT when Steve goes crazy on the pedal steel sounding like cats in heat I'm done for. If they could edit the LEAVES IF GREEN section out and trash the rest...

We do the leaves of green section from TFTO in the middle of our set (its on the website www.seyes.co.uk (http://www.seyes.co.uk)), and I agree that pedal steel has to be extra raw for it to work, the effect should be akin to scratching the finger nails down a blackboard.

As a piece of music it stands up there with any 'concept' album. We have been contemplating having a go at performing the whole thing but we blow hot and cold with it as YES fans seem to be divided into those that hate it, those that are indifferent and those that love it, I am not sure that there there enough of the latter to (especially in the UK) to justify the effort in putting together! What do you think?

As for me its easily an 7 out of 10 but when in the right mood and when I am allowed to listen to the whole thing it becomes a 9.

Tim:drummer:

[TOBYSGRAPHICGOKART]

I gave it 10 but wanted to give it 11.

[orpheus]

Edit THE ANCIENT and it would be perfect!

THE REVEALING SCIENCE and THE RITUAL are brilliant!!!!! THE REMEBERING is pretty good too. However, in THE ANCIENT when Steve goes crazy on the pedal steel sounding like cats in heat I'm done for. If they could edit the LEAVES IF GREEN section out and trash the rest...


Exactly my thoughts. I gave Tales a 9 because I love Revealing Science and Ritual. I have never made it all the way through The Ancient though. Probably never will.

[kirk]

Definitely the soundtrack of my life. Perfect 10.
All of it. It's a snapshot from the early 70's, what we
were about, and in that way, like a fly in amber, it's perfect.

The brownies are cooling, the Nag Champa's burning,
let's cue this thing up...!

K

[Scooty]

With some tighter editing I could understand a 10..

As TFTO stands...a solid 8.

Ritual is perfect, as is RSoG..The Remembering I still don't understand the appeal apart from about 7 outta 20 minutes and The Ancient..Oy Vey...

[BrianD]

On July 1 2008 after 223 votes, average 8.72

[FishIntoWater]

10 !!!... what else?

The best Yes album, ever!

It took me years to assimilate The Ancient as well, but now I love it!

[90125yes]

5

rarely played

not a classic but ahead of it;'s time

[90125yes]

10 !!!... what else?

The best Yes album, ever!

It took me years to assimilate The Ancient as well, but now I love it!

____

it is not the best yes album ever

that has to be CTTE !!

[Billy Sherwood HQ]

10 out of 10

The most inventive YES album in the collection. 4 sides 4 songs, the essence of YES...

Melodic, proggy, great playing, great vocals.

[yesyadda]

I played The Ancient for my daughter (two sittings). It creeped her out LOL.