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neilius
07-24-2005, 04:40 AM
I dont want to be a pessimist or make anyone depressed but after watching the news this morning (News 24 Sunday, BBC 1), it seems to me that all the terrorism, starvation and general suffering in the world is absolutely disgusting.
There is no equality in the world. People are still dying from starvation as i type. Extremists are still plotting as i type.
I dont have any solutions to these problems, my intent in starting this thread is for you to post your thoughts on the current state of the world.
Have some good things to say as well if you can post them here.

BrianD
07-24-2005, 04:55 AM
Apart from terrorism, I don't think much has got worse in the World over the last century. Most things have actually improved. The standard of living of most countries is higher now than a 100 years ago, nutrition is improving per capita, agricultural yields are higher than ever, life expectancy is improving around the globe .....the list of improvements is almost endless.

The difference is that individuals and small groups of radical minorities now have the means and the willpower to hold the majority to ransom in a manner that in the past was largely reserved for countries. They are not necessarily poor (all of the recent terrorists were middle class) and they are not necessarily suffering (of course some are but this is not a prerequisite to terrorism).

neilius
07-24-2005, 05:02 AM
we are certainly more developed than even say 10 years ago, its just there seems to be a climate of fear just about wherever you go on the planet.
I grew up in the 70's and 80's under the threat of a mushroom cloud ( i.e cold war) and now it seems that the topic of fear is on the agenda again.

BrianD
07-24-2005, 05:09 AM
I agree with you there about fear - certain 'rules' of society have been repeatedly broken - the general public is the target of 'causes' more than a decade ago - and in a largely unpredictable way. It is understandable that people in the UK will be on edge at present - but give it 6 months without an incident and that will settle.

Fear is more disabling than the bombs themselves.

neilius
07-24-2005, 05:20 AM
I agree Brian. The people of London are doing fine, I was on the phone to my friend down there yesterday and people are just going about their daily lives as normal. You cant do anything else really. On the News there was people coming back from Egypt, from the suicide bombers attacks there; Going on holiday from a city thats had suicide attacks to another one. New York, Madrid, Israel, London, Egypt; Where next?
Back to topic:
The technological advances the human race has made in the last generation are staggering. The internet, Probes in space ( Voyager is entering interstellar space, if it gets past the Oort cloud, it will probably be around for eternity; the legacy of mankind), advances in Medicine, Archeological discoveries, The human DNA unravelled, it goes on. After all the terrible things that are going on in the world, there are great things happening too.
As the Chinese say, We are living in interesting times.

Joe
07-24-2005, 05:28 AM
Hi Neil,
Wow.......How do I start this off? You know me, and you know i'd love to see peace in this world, but I don't see it in the near future. Terrorism is out of control, and there seems to be nothing we can do about it. IT S##KS!
Suffering in the world seems to be the same as usual, which makes me think, in this day and age, it shouldn't be as usual. Why can't our governments get together and help EVERYONE, not just there own?

Well........I'll post on this subject later. It's early and,... THANKS FOR MAKING ME DEPRESSED AT THIS HOUR NEIL! ha ha

neilius
07-24-2005, 06:37 AM
Sorry to make you depressed Joe!
No peace in the near future, yes, it seems like things are going to get worse before they get any better.
What is the long-term future going to be like for mankind?
Is it going to be like Star Trek or like Mad Max? Unfortunately, it looks like Mad Max as far as i can see. Soylent Green anyone?

Yes2Yes
07-24-2005, 07:46 AM
I dont want to be a pessimist or make anyone depressed but after watching the news this morning (News 24 Sunday, BBC 1), it seems to me that all the terrorism, starvation and general suffering in the world is absolutely disgusting.
There is no equality in the world. People are still dying from starvation as i type. Extremists are still plotting as i type.
I dont have any solutions to these problems, my intent in starting this thread is for you to post your thoughts on the current state of the world.
Have some good things to say as well if you can post them here.

Maybe one day their will be Peace in the world. I don't want to sound gloomy but since time began the world has seen conflicts. Most wars are fought over religion. If you take two people of different faiths and put them in a room they are able to discuss the merits of their beliefs. However if you have many people in that same room more than likely violence will interject. I guess my point is people follow leaders. Leaders for whatever reason feel compelled to make their followers commit acts of violence against one another. History has shown that people will follow blindly even though they know in their hearts what they are doing is against the laws of humanity.

neilius
07-24-2005, 08:26 AM
Maybe one day their will be Peace in the world. I don't want to sound gloomy but since time began the world has seen conflicts. Most wars are fought over religion. If you take two people of different faiths and put them in a room they are able to discuss the merits of their beliefs. However if you have many people in that same room more than likely violence will interject. I guess my point is people follow leaders. Leaders for whatever reason feel compelled to make their followers commit acts of violence against one another. History has shown that people will follow blindly even though they know in their hearts what they are doing is against the laws of humanity.

Ironically, most of the worlds faiths beleive that a grand age of peace shall prevail in the last days, but it has been the last days with every generation going back to biblical times.
This said, I do beleive that we are in an age like no other since the dawn of time.

Jackaranda
07-24-2005, 10:23 AM
The world's screwed up, no doubt about it. I often feel like I'm some kind of alien sent to the wrong place.

Now many of us have children and hopefully they will do whatever they can to make it a bit better. I've noticed how Yesfans' kids all seem very good hearted and spiritual.

yesiam
07-24-2005, 11:25 AM
Bright spot break!!!!!!

http://www.12thdream.com/agp/sunflowers.jpg

Jackaranda
07-24-2005, 11:28 AM
Well it's not ALL bad!!

Nice one Carol.

neilius
07-24-2005, 12:58 PM
Miserable thread isnt it? shall i delete?

yesiam
07-24-2005, 02:28 PM
Not at all :) I was just adding a good thing, like you said in the first post. I feel very fortunate today to have sunflowers. If you'd talked to me last week, I'd have had to dig pretty hard to find something positive.

cinderella
07-24-2005, 02:34 PM
I like it here. There's always been problems of some sort - there always will be. I certainly wouldn't have liked the world 100 or 200 years ago. And at least when I get a cold, I know I won't die from it. Think of the good things you have.

Skyward
07-24-2005, 02:39 PM
Because of western media's obsession with sensationalism, only bad news grabs the front page. The world is still replete with stunning beauty and occasionally, even the good works of man shine through.

Perhaps, we as a people should stand steadfast against greed and corruption by uniting in deed instead of just words. That's right, I'm advocating a global stoppage of both work and purchase even if only for a day. With a bit of luck, the message may get through.

A few thousand participants would hardly suffice. It would truly take a global effort. Am I partaking of the hooka too much? Well, maybe, but I am one of many hopeless dreamers.

neilius
07-24-2005, 02:49 PM
I am glad that positive words have been posted!

THEANCIENT1
07-24-2005, 03:05 PM
let me start out by saying this there is a lot of positive in the world today. the first thing that comes to mind is this group and others like it. There is a ocmmon thread, theme, goal here its wbout yes. THats positive right down to the word and the band. If you think about CTTE and TFTO they are like a guide to live ones life by atleast i try to. there is so much inspiration in Jon's lyrics and strength of the movement of the music. Speaking for only myself I was not raised with religon not that I am sayoing religon is bad but I identified with the sole purpose of what jon was saying about finding spirituality without religon. Enlightenment is the true meaning of life. I remember listening to Jon talking in his introduction to AYAI basically telling people at the Duke University 11-11-72 show that they were responsible for the future and they needed to take responsibility for the world as a whole and be responsible for their actions.

With everything that is going on in the world and believe me for may reasons I am glad to be an american and I have pride in americans andthe true meaning of the people. I do however do not have a lot of pride in the government. Now I know I am going to get a lot of flak for this But who's democracy are we really preserving? I will say this how does our government have the right to go and take control of another country and force them to adopt The governments version of democracy. When they can't even get it right here. I find I have a hard time believing that we are doing hte right thing for people who live in other countries. Now I am not stupid and I do know that things do need to be done to protect the citizens in their own countries. I believe we also need ot look and see what is going on in our own back yard to see what is really the cause of the problems in the world. After all we are the largest super power aren't we. Mind you This is more food for thought these are things I do believe but its more of a statement than pushing my ideas on other people. I do however know this that the government has put these terrorists into power and when they are done with them they act as though they had nothing to do with them but that is the reality we send money countries for aid but what kind of aid are we really sending money for arms. WHat I am really getting at is there is a lot more going on with our government than anyone really knows and the president is going to wrap it all up in a nice little box and a dumb littlesmile thats supposed to convince the nation that what the govenrment is doing is the right thing. anyway I am rambling those are just my thoughts and i guess I feel that the only difference between Our Government is toehr governments and countries don't try to hide what they do and our government does hide it.
thanks for you time and patience and for giving me the forum to express my feelings.
And once again I am saying I offer no apologies for my feelings becasue you can't protect someone from how they feel but is not ment to offend anyone in the group at all
thanks
Dan

Ktrek
07-24-2005, 03:47 PM
Maybe one day their will be Peace in the world. I don't want to sound gloomy but since time began the world has seen conflicts. Most wars are fought over religion.

Actually, this is a misconception. I don't mean to take issue with you but historically most wars have been about land, power and political ideologies. Religion has been a cause for war but in actuality it plays a very small part in world history.

Kevin

tormatotork
07-24-2005, 04:20 PM
Have you ever seen the start of 2001? That's what this world is about. Sadly there are not enough people hugging trees, arsing about with crystals or chanting mantras to change it. The worlds gone mad. Do your best.

JaneEyre
07-24-2005, 04:22 PM
I know the world is a good place because the first words I heard today, even before I opened my weary eyes were, "I wuv you, Momma."

Ktrek
07-24-2005, 04:38 PM
I know the world is a good place because the first words I heard today, even before I opened my weary eyes were, "I wuv you, Momma."

That's really sweet Jane!

I wonder if you'll feel the same 10 years from now? LOL

Kevin

neilius
07-24-2005, 04:45 PM
Thats beutiful Jane.

JaneEyre
07-24-2005, 04:49 PM
That's really sweet Jane!

I wonder if you'll feel the same 10 years from now? LOL

Kevin

If I'm still hearing that someone "wuvs" me -- then, yeah!

neilius
07-24-2005, 05:06 PM
Since i started this thread I have realised that if you only want to see the bad in the world, that is all you will see.
There is so much to be grateful for.

JaneEyre
07-24-2005, 05:06 PM
Since i started this thread I have realised that if you only want to see the bad in the world, that is all you will see.
There is so much to be grateful for.

Hey! Hey!

He gets it now!

cinderella
07-24-2005, 05:15 PM
Since i started this thread I have realised that if you only want to see the bad in the world, that is all you will see.
There is so much to be grateful for.


I always see the good in this world. I try to see the good in everything, and everyone.

I've been told it's one of my faults.

PO
07-24-2005, 05:29 PM
I grew up in the 70's and 80's under the threat of a mushroom cloud ( i.e cold war) and now it seems that the topic of fear is on the agenda again.

My grandparents lived through two World Wars. They would have loved a cold war. Neither of them even had electricity or indoor plumbing as children. Fear is a luxury of the well to do.

Ktrek
07-24-2005, 05:32 PM
It's funny how in marriages God puts two people of different temperaments together. My wife can be a very serious minded person and consequently she can be a real sourpuss at times. Her cup is half-empty. I am the type who wakes up in the morning with a song in my heart and don't take things too seriously at all. I imagine that my wife brings me back to reality sometimes when it's necessary but more often I pull her up to my open and childlike enthusiasm towards life. I figure that we only have one life so why spend it as a downer? Life life to the fullest and look around you. There are so many things to appreciate and value about life if you just have eyes to see.

Kevin

scootwhoman
07-29-2005, 07:46 AM
We are seeing Greed in action on an unprecedented scale. Greed on the part of people who already are making more money than most people can imagine. Greed on the part of people who don't want to see Change, of any sort. Greed on the part of people who don't think about the consequences of their actions.

Countering this epidemic of greed is a growing world awareness of spiritualality without organized religion, as people everywhere seem to be seeking paths which are not laid out by the powerful elite, but that are the creation of the individual. Fear of this new spiritaulality, of acceptance and liberalism, is one of the forces behind much of the terrorist acts. Demonstrations against this or that will do no great good, but acts of compassion and empathy will steadily bring greed to its knees.

allpurechance
07-29-2005, 08:15 AM
We are seeing Greed in action on an unprecedented scale. Greed on the part of people who already are making more money than most people can imagine. Greed on the part of people who don't want to see Change, of any sort. Greed on the part of people who don't think about the consequences of their actions.

Countering this epidemic of greed is a growing world awareness of spiritualality without organized religion, as people everywhere seem to be seeking paths which are not laid out by the powerful elite, but that are the creation of the individual. Fear of this new spiritaulality, of acceptance and liberalism, is one of the forces behind much of the terrorist acts. Demonstrations against this or that will do no great good, but acts of compassion and empathy will steadily bring greed to its knees.

Hear!Hear!

I,too have spoken here of greed,though less eloquently.

And as to the new spirituality,ever since the upswing in terrorism,globewide(upswing because these acts,in some form or other,have always been with us,they've always been here...)-since 2001,I have felt that the time was ripe for Yesmusic to return to the fore,for it's qualities as a force for the positive to become more apparent to and for the general populace.Whether or not this has happened or is happening remains to be seen.Yes is no longer viewed with the disdain ( by some ) that has hallmarked the majority of their careers,and it has been seen that their so-called "stock" is on the rise once again - amongst those who are aware of them at all...

Yet not enough,not as much as I would love to see,we would all love to see,now,wouldn't we(although,they would no longer seem to be our own,rather poorly kept secret,which is also amongst the things we love so much about Yes - we Yeslovers are like our own little secret society,in which we are those in the "know",and those who are not simply are not!)?

The world needs many things.As it has always done.But amongst the things it needs is Yes.Do I err here?Am I wrong?No,I don't think so.

The world needs Yes!And more Yes,at that!

I have always endeavored to share Yes with the world,my little part of it.I continue to do so,with varying degrees of success,as I'm sure it is with us all.I will continue to do so.As I'm sure it is with us all.The real problem here is that there are no greater heralds of Yesmusic than the band themselves,and their time as a productive unit inevitably draws towards it's dusk.May they have within them one last whallop to lay upon the world itself.May the best be yet to come.Failing this however,is the sharing of music of the band that we love with it's message of love amongst those whom we love.

The world needs many things,many of which we ourselves are mostly powerless to give to it.Yesmusic is a vastly powerful source of healing and beauty and love,as so many of us here have described to each other---and to the band,themselves!Such as we are,such as Yes is,we do what we can,what we are able to do.

Give Love Each Day!

I love Yes.I love Yesfans.There are worse things than this,worse solutions,as Scootwhoman pointed out so profoundly,in my view,in his above post.

Music and laughter might just save us all.They certainly cannot hurt the cause.

Frank

:O)

Albedo
07-29-2005, 08:37 AM
Hear!Hear!

I,too have spoken here of greed,though less eloquently.

And as to the new spirituality,ever since the upswing in terrorism,globewide(upswing because these acts,in some form or other,have always been with us,they've always been here...)-since 2001,I have felt that the time was ripe for Yesmusic to return to the fore,for it's qualities as a force for the positive to become more apparent to and for the general populace.Whether or not this has happened or is happening remains to be seen.Yes is no longer viewed with the disdain ( by some ) that has hallmarked the majority of their careers,and it has been seen that their so-called "stock" is on the rise once again - amongst those who are aware of them at all...

Yet not enough,not as much as I would love to see,we would all love to see,now,wouldn't we(although,they would no longer seem to be our own,rather poorly kept secret,which is also amongst the things we love so much about Yes - we Yeslovers are like our own little secret society,in which we are those in the "know",and those who are not simply are not!)?

The world needs many things.As it has always done.But amongst the things it needs is Yes.Do I err here?Am I wrong?No,I don't think so.

The world needs Yes!And more Yes,at that!

I have always endeavored to share Yes with the world,my little part of it.I continue to do so,with varying degrees of success,as I'm sure it is with us all.I will continue to do so.As I'm sure it is with us all.The real problem here is that there are no greater heralds of Yesmusic than the band themselves,and their time as a productive unit inevitably draws towards it's dusk.May they have within them one last whallop to lay upon the world itself.May the best be yet to come.Failing this however,is the sharing of music of the band that we love with it's message of love amongst those whom we love.

The world needs many things,many of which we ourselves are mostly powerless to give to it.Yesmusic is a vastly powerful source of healing and beauty and love,as so many of us here have described to each other---and to the band,themselves!Such as we are,such as Yes is,we do what we can,what we are able to do.

Give Love Each Day!

I love Yes.I love Yesfans.There are worse things than this,worse solutions,as Scootwhoman pointed out so profoundly,in my view,in his above post.

Music and laughter might just save us all.They certainly cannot hurt the cause.

Frank

:O)

Wow! You said it all. I hope it can happen.

neilius
07-29-2005, 08:56 AM
Good posts and thoughts. I also say Hear hear to the post by Scootwhoman.
Here's a lyric from the Big Generator album:

Who was it organizing the right to follow my leader,
seems we look around and stand around waiting for
a sign from God,
Speaking for myself,
the christian need,
the muslim need,
the buddist need,
to testify the need for brotherly love.

saint or sinner
makes no difference in who you beleive,
in a world of superstition caught in total nuclear greed.

scootwhoman
07-30-2005, 09:54 AM
Yes music has a timelessness about it which is a great part of its appeal, I think. Many young people who have spent time around me have become fond of Yes, and when I find out that one of them has actually gone out and purchased (?) ((Who buys music anymore? I do!)) a Yes album, er, I mean, disc, it really warms the cockles of my heart. (Whatever THEY are.)

Every new release by this incredible band (?) group (?) symphonic rock orchestra (?) has astonished me, not just because they are able to do so without a major label supporting them, but because the music is always so new, and fresh. Even if (sob!) there were never another new Yes album released, I would still believe that the world has been blessed with creations which will still be enjoyed long after the creators have passed on.

Yes music embodies a willingness to try new things, a belief that, even if nothing can surpass what has already been done, there is still every good reason to go on doing. Yes musicians also seem to have avoided the excesses that were so charactoristic of the groups of their time, and are enjoying a maturity which has often been very productive among other musicians.

But Yes music is only one facet of the people who frequent these hallowed halls, (even if they do have chalk on their hands, or paint,) and how we treat each other is what is heard the most clearly by those around us. I believe that we each should make it a point to go out of our way each day, at least once, to help someone else. Not only does sharing the load make hauling it a little easier, but the empathy required to know how to help someone else is a good learning tool. To help someone else, you must first understand that person well enough to be able to know what will be helpful. And sometimes, you don't even encounter the person that you are helping. For instance, if you are walking across a parking lot toward a store, and you come across a shopping cart from that store, pushing it back to the store is going to help someone out, because somebody will have to go fetch it. Or, you notice a situation which is going to cause someone to have to stop, climb down, move something, then climb back up again, and get moving, (shopping carts roll into the access lane for the delivery trucks at a store near where I live,) but you can push the cart out of the way without any real effort.

Anything which will lighten the load for someone is fair game, and there are many ways to do so without having to introduce yourself. Being aware of those who are on this journey through the galaxy with us is the first step in creating a world where greed languishes and dies.

allpurechance
08-02-2005, 12:49 AM
Yes music has a timelessness about it which is a great part of its appeal, I think. Many young people who have spent time around me have become fond of Yes, and when I find out that one of them has actually gone out and purchased (?) ((Who buys music anymore? I do!)) a Yes album, er, I mean, disc, it really warms the cockles of my heart. (Whatever THEY are.)

Every new release by this incredible band (?) group (?) symphonic rock orchestra (?) has astonished me, not just because they are able to do so without a major label supporting them, but because the music is always so new, and fresh. Even if (sob!) there were never another new Yes album released, I would still believe that the world has been blessed with creations which will still be enjoyed long after the creators have passed on.

Yes music embodies a willingness to try new things, a belief that, even if nothing can surpass what has already been done, there is still every good reason to go on doing. Yes musicians also seem to have avoided the excesses that were so charactoristic of the groups of their time, and are enjoying a maturity which has often been very productive among other musicians.

But Yes music is only one facet of the people who frequent these hallowed halls, (even if they do have chalk on their hands, or paint,) and how we treat each other is what is heard the most clearly by those around us. I believe that we each should make it a point to go out of our way each day, at least once, to help someone else. Not only does sharing the load make hauling it a little easier, but the empathy required to know how to help someone else is a good learning tool. To help someone else, you must first understand that person well enough to be able to know what will be helpful. And sometimes, you don't even encounter the person that you are helping. For instance, if you are walking across a parking lot toward a store, and you come across a shopping cart from that store, pushing it back to the store is going to help someone out, because somebody will have to go fetch it. Or, you notice a situation which is going to cause someone to have to stop, climb down, move something, then climb back up again, and get moving, (shopping carts roll into the access lane for the delivery trucks at a store near where I live,) but you can push the cart out of the way without any real effort.

Anything which will lighten the load for someone is fair game, and there are many ways to do so without having to introduce yourself. Being aware of those who are on this journey through the galaxy with us is the first step in creating a world where greed languishes and dies.

You have said it all...

...!!!

Wonderfully

neilius
08-02-2005, 02:41 AM
All I can add to Scootwhman's brilliant post is this: If we can show love to one and other, even to those we do not know; I this would be an effective weapon in the war on greed and many of the other problems currently in the world.

jfuruno
08-02-2005, 12:03 PM
Wars, and rumors of war. Things don't change much, but genrally change for the better in a macroscopic way. The fact that the world population continues to grow is an indication that, overall, conditions are improving for most people, though not as much as many would like. I would not want to have been in a dentist's chair a hundred years ago, or in a surgerical suite fifty years ago. My primary concern about the water is long-term effects of trace contaminants, whereas when I was was born I got a typhus and a typhoid shot because the water could kill me in a few days. Even twenty years ago my type of cancer would have killed me, leaving my wife a widow, my children fatherless, and my parents, who are in their eighties, with the task of burying a child.

We have not nuked each other off the face of the planet.

We have not seen the likes of the Black Plague in centuries.

We have not seen an economic collapse in seventy years.

We have not seen a world war in sixty years.

People are becoming more educated, if less thoughtful.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to starve to death in this world, minus intentional starvation like in Ethiopia, Rwanda, etcetera.

The human race is finally at least having an informed debate about pollution.

I think things are getting better, but there will always be troubles. The thing is, if you have not actively given up a portion of you life to providing solutions, then you are part of the trouble.

Skyward
08-02-2005, 01:49 PM
Although we do not always agree, JFuruno, on the present global situation, I share in your optimistic appraisal. Since much of our oxygen comes from the smallest inhabitants of the oceans, I think considerably more attention needs to be devoted to cleaning them up.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8796487/

scootwhoman
08-05-2005, 03:27 AM
We live in strange times. Our industries have caused horrible devestation across the globe, yet the potential to move our industries off-planet is becoming a reality. Transportation is one of the leading causes of pollution, yet we are developing ways to transport our ideas, our sense of presence, anywhere, instantly. Nuclear waste is a serious problem in many places, but the first fusion reactor is to be built in France in the next few years, to develop a commercial model for energy generation without radioactive waste, pollution, or environmental devastation. (Strip mining is a process where the 'overburden', the trees, vegatation, animals, etcetera, are removed, and the coal extracted.)

Energy costs have gotten high enough for fossil fuels that alternatives are actually being considered and developed. Wasn't the wind there 50 years ago?

Bluetailfly
08-07-2005, 02:47 AM
Sometimes I think the world is spinning off its axis and that people are all going insane. I often feel like Gene Wilder in Rhinoceros, a short film starring Gene and Zero Mostell in which everybody in a small town turns into a rhinoceros, except for the Gene Wilder character, who refuses to turn in a rhonceros.
Then I realise that it probably isn't the rest of the world that is insane, that it just might be me. Man Where is Q when you need him?