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DJ Panurge
06-30-2005, 12:37 PM
I've wanted to write a full review of this album for some time... I've now finally decided to do it. If you still don't have 'Deadwing' and are thinking of purchasing it on the strength of 'In Absentia' or any other PT material, hopefully what follows will help you decide whether you will like it. Please feel free to write your own review of this album in this thread. Here's mine:

Deadwing has been perhaps the most anticipated PT album to date given the unprecedented success of 'In Absentia' both in Europe and the US. After the release of 'In Absentia', Steven Wilson, singer/songwriter/guitarist/founder & mastermind behind PT, decided to take some time off which he spent collaborating with other artists (Blackfield, No-man, Bass Communion) and producing several rock/metal albums.

In the past year or so, the PT fan base became extremely anxious to see what direction the band would finally decide to take with the new album. In my experience, I have learnt that there is only one universal constant in Porcupine Tree, and that is that it will change. Since the band's inception in 1991, PT has evolved drastically, incorporating many different musical influences such as psychedelia, ambient, trance, prog/space rock, pop rock, and recently, prog metal. At each step of the way, they have alienated many of their earlier fans but they've survived by turning new people to their sound (kind of what happened to Dylan in the 60s/70s).

'Deadwing' is no exception, and the metal influence hinted on 'In Absentia' takes a lead role here. I know of several people who haven't enjoyed this album as much as the others but I think that those who are able to listen without prejudice are sure to find that distinctive PT sound contained within the darker and heavier music of 'Deadwing'.

Another interesting thing worth mentioning is that, since 1993, every new PT album has been hailed by the fans, the critics, the press and even by the band members themselves as 'their best so far'. That desire to continuously transform themselves is one of the most respectable qualities of this remarkable band.

So what can be said of the new album itself? The concept behind Deadwing is loosely based on a ghost story written by Steven Wilson. Below I review the whole album, track by track:

Deadwing: The song kicks off with an overdubbed keyboard pattern that is played continuously throughout which also introduces the sounds of a train approaching a London Underground tube station. As the doors open we hear the announcement 'Mind the Gap' and the entire band kicks in with a heavy but pleasant guitar riff. Thus, the album starts in a similar vein to 'In Absentia' with that Crimson-esque soft-LOUD pattern (think 21st Century Schizoid Man, A Man A City, Level Five, etc.). Steven's vocals in this song are slightly distorted but flow as beautifully as ever. There is also some whispering which I don't care much for, but the whispers help to enhance the dark and eerie atmosphere of the song. The keyboards play a prominent role in the first few minutes, with a powerful mellotron sound which surrounds Wilson's biting guitar riffs. Actually, this song features some excellent heavy guitar riffs, which appear often syncopated with the keyboard pattern which pulsates throughout the song. The first guitar solo is played over some beautiful acoustic guitar and this leads to some lovely vocal harmonies as only PT can do them. There is also a very nice passage featuring some wonderful guitar feedback and a short bass solo which leads to a frenetic guitar spot by Adrian Belew. Overall, Deawing is composed of 3 or 4 different passages which are alternated at different intervals. I have really come to appreciate this song since I first heard it and I now regard it as the very best opening track to any PT album, and it's easily among my all time favourite PT songs. It gets a hell of a lot better with every listen!

Shallow: Unfortunately, such an excellent opening track leads to the album's first single which, in my opinion, is one of the worst songs PT have ever written (with the possible exception of 'Four Chords that Made a Million' and some of the shorter experimental pieces on 'On the Sunday of Life'). To my ears this song sounds like a pathetic attempt to cash in on the US teenage market. It features a very simple heavy guitar riff which is repeated 'ad nauseam' and an angry chorus immersed in some extremely heavy and mindless riffs. I admit I was hugely disappointed when I first heard Shallow, but I can sort of understand now why Steven decided to include it: it is commercial, it is simple, and it is angry. Thus, it will be sure to attract many members of the Heavy & Death metal camps and consequently help to increase the album sales. Steven himself defined Shallow as 'a dumb American metal song as PT would do it' and to me, it is no wonder that it was dropped so quickly from the setlist in the current tour after just a few performances. It just doesn't sound like Porcupine Tree at all, and it shouldn't have been included in the album, let alone as the single! Thus, the presence of Shallow is really a no-win situation: those who love the PT sound will probably hate it, and those who buy Deadwing on the 'strength' of Shallow will be disappointed to find a non-commercial prog album.

Lazarus: Things get better with the next track, but only a little. Although Lazarus is completely different from Shallow, being much softer and gentler, I still think it's another blatant attempt at a commercial single. I've got nothing against such attempts but it's really a shame that the band has chosen songs which are not at all representative of their sound. They miss that distinctive quality and talent that makes PT so great. In fact, I really think that these 2 singles are by far the worst songs on the album. Lazarus itself sounds a bit like a lame Robbie Williams love ballad, and it gets rather tedious after only a few listens. Although PT are able to write fantastic love songs, this one just sounds very artificial and is probably the result of pressures from their record label to write an instantly likeable commercial song. It does feature some nice piano and acoustic guitar work but nothing memorable.

Halo: Following the two commercial singles, Halo continues where Deadwing left off. The song kicks with a great bass line and another repetitive percussive rhythmic pattern which is played throughout the song. The vocals are again distorted but the chorus is catchy and powerful. The lyrics, inspired (I presume) by 9/11, and the Afghanistan & Iraq conflicts, explain how God serves as an effective means of manipulation by using it's authority to justify any action, regardless of how immoral it may be:

God is in my fingers
God is in my head
God is in the trigger
God is in the lead
God is freedom
God is truth
God is power
God is proof
God is fashion
God is fame
God gives meaning
God give pain.

You can be right like me.
With God in the hole you're a righteous soul
I got a halo round me,
I'm not the same as you
Cos I've seen the light and I'm gaining in height
Now I got a halo round me,
I got a halo round my head

God is on the cellphone
God is on the net
God is in the warning
God is in the threat.

The guitar riffs are again quite heavily distorted but they are never as overpowering as they were on Shallow. Adrian Belew guests again on this track although his solo doesn't fit as well as his one on Deadwing. Overall however, this song is extremely powerful, both lyrically and musically, and is a significant improvement over the two tracks preceeding it. I should also add that this song works much better live, given that the rhythmic pattern I mentioned is much more prominent, and the imagery shown on stage helps to enhance its power and its message.

Arriving Somewhere but not Here: This song, clocking at 12 minutes, is the centrepiece of the album. At one of the gigs I attended, Steven introduced this song as 'being extremely difficult to play'. It really is an ambitious piece, full of keyboard loops and guitar sounds. In many ways, it features some of the best guitar work Steven has ever done, combining the different styles and influences he has acquired throughout his musical career. The singing is absolutely beautiful, with stunning echo effects and several overdubbed vocal harmonies. The bass playing is also phenomenal, and the keyboards are much more audible than on 'In Absentia' material. But, as I said, the highpoint of the song is the guitar playing, which evolves as the song progresses combining simple guitar solos with loops, feedback, and heavy metal riffs. Halfway through the song, the piece is transformed into a dark evil beast which emerges out of nowhere and really takes the listener by surprise. It's actually heavier than I would like it to be, but it's brevity and the excellent guitar work contained within it makes up for it's heaviness. Following this death metal passage, the piece is suddenly reduced to a simple electronic drum pattern and a beautiful guitar solo, which is backed up by a few piano chords. The song then concludes with the inital melody, eventually fading into the distance. Perhaps my only complaint is the drumming, which is awfully monotonus throughout the song and indeed for much of the album. I really don't understand why Gavin Harrison chose to adopt such a simplistic approach in this album given his exciting and complex contributions to 'In Absentia'. Still, this is a feeble complaint, and overall this track stands together with the opening track well above the rest of the album.

Mellotron Scratch: Despite it's title, this song does not feature that instrument. This was the first song I instantly liked upon first hearing the album and I now regard it as one of the best acoustic songs in the entire PT catalogue. The guitar playing is syncopated with another elctronic drum beat as in the quiet section of Arriving. The arrangement of this piece really reminds me of the first half of Gravity Eyelids from 'In Absentia'. The acoustic guitar is combined with some very nice soft electric guitar, but the real treat of this song are the vocal harmonies. They are as beautiful as the ones in Heartattack in a Layby, as complex as the ones in How is Your Life Today?, and as powerful as those found on Shesmovedon. Steven overdubs his voice almost half a dozen times in a single passage creating a wonderful and extremely beautiful collage of multipart vocal harmonies which are somewhat reminiscent of what Gentle Giant was capable of doing live in the 1970s. The vocals harmonies reach a climax in the last 30 seconds of the song when all the instruments are faded and you're left to absorb the complexity and beauty of the vocal harmonies alone.

Open Car: Open Car starts with some heavy guitar riffing similar to the one found in Shallow. However, you should not be fooled by this opening. These metal riffs quickly lead to a beautiful acoustic chorus which serves as a perfect balance to the heavy metal opening. The piece closes with a very nice acoustic guitar solo and very melancholic vocals. It really is a shame that this song is so short! Overall, a brief but very well thought out prog-rock piece.

The Start of Something Beautiful: The ending of Open Car leads to a thick bass line and some interesting guitar harmonics. The drumming here is far better than on Arriving, serving as the perfect companion to the repeated bass line. There are also some synthesizers which appear and disappear like waves throughout the piece. The chorus features heavy guitar licks and very distorted vocals which, if anything, enhance the power of the music. Finally, there is also a short percussion solo and some really beatuiful piano/guitar interplay which closes the song. In my opinion, this piece combines the different moods contained in the previous songs and would've therefore served as an excellent closer to the album.

Glass Arm Shattering:Given the majestic ending of the previous track, Glass Arm Shattering serves as an epilogue to the album. It is drastically different form the rest of the songs on 'Deadwing', being much closer in style to the earlier (mid-90s) PT sound. It features some very nice glissando guitar and extended vocal harmonics although it drags a bit towards the end. Still, it allows you to slow yourself down after the rather intense experience of the preceeding songs.

To conclude, Deadwing represents another significant step forward for a band which I'm sure will continue to progress and develop their sound in the coming years. I myself can't wait to hear their next record. The next big thing if you're new to this band is to trace back the progression of all their previous albums. Their entire back catalogue is worth having if you've enjoyed what you've heard so far.

That's it! Hope some of you find this review helpful ;)

Timmo
06-30-2005, 02:53 PM
Great review DJ!

I mostly concur, except I would be a lot less harsh on Shallow (which I actually like...PT's take on a "dumb American metal song" is still pretty interesting) and Lazarus (which does drag a bit, my roommate dismisses it with "it's a chick song.")

The rest of the album I unabashedly and unquestionably adore. I'm totally with you on "Deadwing" (the song), it's one of PTs best, ever, and it's great live. But I think it's topped by "Arriving Somewhere But Not Here" and "The Start of Something Beautiful." I didn't like TSOSB at first, but it's really drawn me in, and you're right, the drumming is fantastic (I wouldn't say, as you did, "better" than ASBNH, just different).

Many long-time fans on the Porcupine Tree forum think Deadwing (the album) is too "commercial." I totally disagree...I think it's a bit more ACCESSABLE to a wider audience. It's still da Tree! And it's still progressive as hell, despite what some think.

To my mind, way too much has been made about In Absentia and Deadwing being too "heavy" or "metal-influenced." Wilson merely uses these heavy guitar riffs as another color on his musical palatte. The prog/metal balance is much more tilted to prog than, say, Dream Theater (who I also like).

I'd say to any serious fan that Deadwing is essential. If you liked In Absentia, it's even more essential, as it is an extremely logical next step from there. If you've never heard PT, I think Deadwing is a logical place to start, and work backwards through their catalog. You are in for a MAJOR treat. Virtually everyone I have played Deadwing for has loved it, including my roommate, who HATES prog.

Also, if you like this music at all and the band is coming anywhere remotely close to you, GO. They are even more amazing live.

JL
06-30-2005, 06:57 PM
The prog/metal balance is much more tilted to prog than, say, Dream Theater

I agree. I was a very slight bit turned off by the metal aspect of PT's sound at first, but I find I have come to embrace it. It is used sparingly and serves the piece of music when present.

I still have to vote in the Deadwing Best Songs poll. I'm nearly ready.

Timmo
06-30-2005, 07:09 PM
I had to vote for "Arriving Somewhere But Not Here"

yesiam
06-30-2005, 07:46 PM
Adrian Belew played on this? Wow - I really miss liner notes.

Thanks DJ. Nice review. I really love this album but I've only listened to it 50 times so far so I'm still thinking about it.

Timmo
06-30-2005, 09:53 PM
Here's a great review of the 5.1 DVD-Audio version.

This dude is right where a lot of us are, really discovering them now. He said he couldn't believe that a band this good has been around for 16 years and not been hugely popular. Apparently Deadwing is getting airplay on alternative stations as well.

Review (http://www.avrev.com/music/revs/porcupinetreedeadwing.shtml).

Timmo
07-11-2005, 02:48 PM
Bump.

DJ Panurge
09-04-2005, 01:40 PM
Bumpidy-bump!

True Believer
09-04-2005, 05:22 PM
I had to vote for "Arriving Somewhere But Not Here"

You got it Timmo, me too. Love this track.

Max Webster
09-05-2005, 04:03 AM
Shallow: Unfortunately, such an excellent opening track leads to the album's first single which, in my opinion, is one of the worst songs PT have ever written (with the possible exception of 'Four Chords that Made a Million' and some of the shorter experimental pieces on 'On the Sunday of Life'). To my ears this song sounds like a pathetic attempt to cash in on the US teenage market. It features a very simple heavy guitar riff which is repeated 'ad nauseam' and an angry chorus immersed in some extremely heavy and mindless riffs. I admit I was hugely disappointed when I first heard Shallow, but I can sort of understand now why Steven decided to include it: it is commercial, it is simple, and it is angry. Thus, it will be sure to attract many members of the Heavy & Death metal camps and consequently help to increase the album sales. Steven himself defined Shallow as 'a dumb American metal song as PT would do it' and to me, it is no wonder that it was dropped so quickly from the setlist in the current tour after just a few performances. It just doesn't sound like Porcupine Tree at all, and it shouldn't have been included in the album, let alone as the single! Thus, the presence of Shallow is really a no-win situation: those who love the PT sound will probably hate it, and those who buy Deadwing on the 'strength' of Shallow will be disappointed to find a non-commercial prog album.

Lazarus: Things get better with the next track, but only a little. Although Lazarus is completely different from Shallow, being much softer and gentler, I still think it's another blatant attempt at a commercial single. I've got nothing against such attempts but it's really a shame that the band has chosen songs which are not at all representative of their sound. They miss that distinctive quality and talent that makes PT so great. In fact, I really think that these 2 singles are by far the worst songs on the album. Lazarus itself sounds a bit like a lame Robbie Williams love ballad, and it gets rather tedious after only a few listens. Although PT are able to write fantastic love songs, this one just sounds very artificial and is probably the result of pressures from their record label to write an instantly likeable commercial song. It does feature some nice piano and acoustic guitar work but nothing memorable.

Interesting comments.
I hadn't really thought of "Shallow" in the context of it being an attempt crack the mindless teenagers market. But perhaps it's worked since I read somewhere that it's included on a film soundtrack for a movie that's come out quite recently (I think it's called Four Brothers, or something like that).

I actually quite like the song. I got the album when it was released and I've been playing and enjoying it a lot particularly just in the last couple of weeks. I'd say "Shallow" is probably my second-favourite song on the album (behind "Arriving Somewhere But Not Here"). For me, it's definitely been one of the incentives for me to keep playing this album.

"Lazarus" on the other hand, is probably my least favourite song on the album. To me it seems like an attempt at normalcy. I find it has a calming effect, almost a let-down after the adrenaline rush of "Shallow."

Symbol
09-05-2005, 12:42 PM
I will begin my introduction to Porcupine Tree with Arriving Somewhere (But Not Here).

Timmo
09-05-2005, 05:49 PM
Continue it with "The Start of Something Beautiful." I like this song more and more with repeated listens.

The next place to go is In Absentia...just be aware that this is a VERY dark album, mostly concerned with the serial killer Fred West.

The next logical place to go are PT's three "pop" albums...Stupid Dream, Lightbulb Sun and Recordings (B-sides and songs that didn't make it onto SD and LS).

Unfortunately they are all out of print, however they are going to offer remasters of Stupid Dream and Lightbulb Sun late this year/early next year, and will probably include the Recordings material as bonus/second discs in these reissues. "Recordings" was initially released as a limited release of 20,000; fortunately I've been able to acquire bootleg and/or CDRs for these three to tide me over until the reissues.

Stupid Dream has become my favorite PT album. It's freakin' STELLAR. The extended version of Even Less (originally opening Stupid Dream) on Recordings is their epic...unbelievably good, as you can tell from my sig line. The opening track on "Recordings" is the EXCELLENT "Buying New Soul," it's hard for me to believe that these were their "outtakes."

Symbol
09-05-2005, 06:53 PM
The Start of Something Beautiful is very good! I am listening to Glass Arm Shattering right now... another excellent song.

Symbol
09-05-2005, 06:58 PM
Now.... She's Moved On.

Timmo
09-05-2005, 07:00 PM
Shesmovedon is fantastic (but a bit overplayed live, I have to say).

Why isn't this band more popular???

Symbol
09-05-2005, 07:05 PM
These guys are very good Timmo. I am glad I got a few of their CDs.

I have Signify, Deadwing, XM2, Coma Divine, and Warszaga. I am going to get In Absentia next.

DJ Panurge
09-06-2005, 07:58 AM
I have Signify, Deadwing, XM2, Coma Divine, and Warszaga. I am going to get In Absentia next.
These are all excellent albums.

The stellar 'Coma Divine' should be able to direct you towards PT's earlier albums.

From that era (1991-96), I highly recommend 'Up the Downstair' (1993).

Timmo
09-06-2005, 04:00 PM
Another great way to familiarize yourself with early PT is the excellent compilation "Stars Die - The Delirium Years." Delirium was their original indie label.

CybrKhatru
09-06-2005, 04:11 PM
Stupid Dream has become my favorite PT album. It's freakin' STELLAR. The extended version of Even Less (originally opening Stupid Dream) on Recordings is their epic...unbelievably good, as you can tell from my sig line. The opening track on "Recordings" is the EXCELLENT "Buying New Soul," it's hard for me to believe that these were their "outtakes."


:headset: :headset: :headset: :headset:

You know how I agree with you on this, Timmo....! I can't believe anything as beautiful as Buying New Soul could possibly be an "outtake". Boggles the mind!

One of the things I love about Deadwing (and In Absentia, for that matter) is the way Wilson and co. incorporate the heavy stuff into the dreamy quality of much of PT's music. Seamless....in particular, the way that Arriving Somewhere builds....just masterful.

I too was wondering if PT were getting any radio play at all....I hope this is true!

---Matt

True Believer
09-07-2005, 07:28 AM
Deadwing - I love it almost as much as In Absentia, it's growing on me more each day. And I'm playing it almost daily too.

Symbol
09-07-2005, 01:54 PM
I am too Anne. I have it on right now.

I think it is my favorite CD of theirs so far, although I am still a neophyte. My opinion may change as I become more familiar with their music.

Timmo
09-08-2005, 03:53 PM
My favorite PT album tends to be the one I'm listening to....

new_sum_do_solve_ay
09-08-2005, 04:19 PM
I am new to PT. I bought this album because of this Yesfans forum. I did not like the first few tracks so I ejected it and set it aside for a while. After a week or so I realized the second half of the album is much better and reminds me of the brooding sounds of Pink Floyd just a bit. I will not go into it song by song because I'm new but I bought it and I like it. I wont say its great, but there are good moments. I was turned off by the metal sound. It made me think of them as Nirvana wanna-bes. I do like the floating 'spacey'-ness in the later tracks. I am going to get In Absentia to see if there is less metal.

PT will be in Houston next month and I will probably go see them...

Timmo
09-08-2005, 06:15 PM
In Abstentia has A BIT less "metal" parts, but it's overall a much darker album, at least lyrically. "Blackest Eyes," the first song, starts off VERY heavy but then morphs into this gorgeous accoustic guitar chord. The next song, "Trains," is the reverse, although the "metal" parts aren't as heavy.

I actually like the metal power guitar. Wilson uses it as another color in his sonic pallatte, weaving it in and out.

If you like the mellower Floydian stuff, check out the "Stars Die" compilation; it's a great introduction into their first albums (On the Sunday of Life, Voyage 34, The Sky Moves Sideways, Up the Downstair, and Signify) plus some rarities, b-sides, etc. They're VERY Pink Floyd influenced, lots of spacy/trancy stuff. Voyage 34 is about an acid trip!

The two after these and before IA, Stupid Dream and Lightbulb Sun blend pop into the trancy/spacy sound. They're deceptively accessable, and have become my two favorites.

JL
09-08-2005, 06:24 PM
My favorite PT album tends to be the one I'm listening to....

Agreed. My favorite PT album was Warszawa for a couple of weeks. Then it was Signify. For the last few days, it's been In Absentia. Deadwing has been my favorite at certain times.

Subject to change.

The Sky Moves Sideways has not been my favorite at any point. I'm just not as into it as the others.

Timmo
09-08-2005, 06:26 PM
I LOVE TSMS, especially the reissue with the bonus material! The title song is cool, and I LOVE "The Moon Touches Your Shoulder!" Moonloop and Stars Die on the bonus disc!

JL
09-08-2005, 08:38 PM
I LOVE TSMS, especially the reissue with the bonus material! The title song is cool, and I LOVE "The Moon Touches Your Shoulder!" Moonloop and Stars Die on the bonus disc!

Don't get me wrong; I think it's a great album. I just don't LOVE it the way I do all other PT I have heard thus far.

I'm still listening to it pretty regularly, just nowhere near as much as Signify, my main listening right now.

I've been turning my wife on to PT, and she's actually asking to hear more and digging it. Warszawa is next for her, then Deadwing.

DJ Panurge
09-09-2005, 05:29 AM
The Sky Moves Sideways has not been my favorite at any point. I'm just not as into it as the others.
I only listen to the bonus disc of TSMS these days. Stars Die is beautiful and the 20 minutes of Moonloop are pure bliss. I can listen to Moonloop on repeat for hours and never get tired of it... It's beautiful music.

As for the title-track of the album, I'm put off by the electronic section that comes up at the 7-8 minute mark; it just drags for too long. If you're like me, then you need to listen to the live version featured on Coma Divine. It is an absolute magnificent rendition which is far superior in many ways. For instance, all the cheesy electronic beats that you hear on the studio album are played live with acoustic drums, and Steven plays one of his finest guitar solos during this part of the song... Well worth checking out even if you disliked the original version.

Timmo
09-09-2005, 01:49 PM
I love both the studio and the Coma Divine version. The studio version is interesting historically as well.

I had pretty much only listened to the versions on Coma Divine, then went back to the studio remaster.

The live version I do prefer is "Dislocated Day," which is odd because that was one of the songs that they went back and recorded real drums for.

DJ Panurge
09-09-2005, 03:31 PM
I had pretty much only listened to the versions on Coma Divine, then went back to the studio remaster.
So did I at one point, but I still believe that one must listen to the live version first in order to fully appreciate the original studio version.

Even when I did return to listen to the studio original, I still concluded that the live rendition of TSMS is superior.

Timmo
09-09-2005, 03:33 PM
I say it's different rather than better, but that's why there's more than one ice-cream flavor!

DJ Panurge
09-09-2005, 03:58 PM
I say it's different rather than better, but that's why there's more than one ice-cream flavor!
Interesting that you keep saying that (I also remember you mentioning it when I said that the drumming in The Start of Something Beautiful was "better" than the one on Arriving Somewhere but not Here).

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with claiming that something is in fact better than something else if one justifies it. It is important to have preferences and not to be indifferent to everything just for the sake of being politically correct. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is your case, but it is curious to me how you keep saying that things are just different than other things (that goes without saying... if they weren't, they wouldn't be different things!), without also adding whether you consider one to be better or worse than the other. It would be a shame if you did that just for the sake of avoiding controversy since discussing different opinions and views about music that we love is one the greatest things about Yesfans.

*Sorry for the :offtopic:

Max Webster
09-09-2005, 04:26 PM
Interesting that you keep saying that (I also remember you mentioning it when I said that the drumming in The Start of Something Beautiful was "better" than the one on Arriving Somewhere but not Here).

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with claiming that something is in fact better than something else if one justifies it.I'm always a little wary when people speak of subjective musical preferences as if they were justifiable facts.

I prefer TSMS and Signify to all other Porcupine Tree albums.
But I would be hesitant to take that further by declaring those two as "the best" albums by that band.

DJ Panurge
09-09-2005, 04:36 PM
I'm always a little wary when people speak of subjective musical preferences as if they were justifiable facts.
Well, I don't understand why you should be wary. In fact, it is precisely when one is talking about subjective musical preferences that one must be able to back up his opinions with a solid argument if one hopes to have a constructive discussion about something.

Timmo
09-09-2005, 06:26 PM
Interesting that you keep saying that (I also remember you mentioning it when I said that the drumming in The Start of Something Beautiful was "better" than the one on Arriving Somewhere but not Here).

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with claiming that something is in fact better than something else if one justifies it. It is important to have preferences and not to be indifferent to everything just for the sake of being politically correct. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is your case, but it is curious to me how you keep saying that things are just different than other things (that goes without saying... if they weren't, they wouldn't be different things!), without also adding whether you consider one to be better or worse than the other. It would be a shame if you did that just for the sake of avoiding controversy since discussing different opinions and views about music that we love is one the greatest things about Yesfans.

*Sorry for the :offtopic:LOL.

Anyone who knows me at all, in real life or on the site, knows that I'm not shy about expressing my opinion on things.

In these two cases, I happen to like them both equally.
I'm always a little wary when people speak of subjective musical preferences as if they were justifiable facts.

I prefer TSMS and Signify to all other Porcupine Tree albums.
But I would be hesitant to take that further by declaring those two as "the best" albums by that band.


Well, I don't understand why you should be wary. In fact, it is precisely when one is talking about subjective musical preferences that one must be able to back up his opinions with a solid argument if one hopes to have a constructive discussion about something.It's not about "political correctness," but I do have to admit that I hate threads with titles like "Worst Yes album" or "Best Keyboard player." In fact, you're talking about a PREFERENCE, not whether something is "better or worse," but how much you value it. Such statements rub me the wrong way, as it implies that the person holding the opinion knows what is BETTER, and if someone has different taste, than they're just an idiot who doesn't know which is better.

I don't necessarily hate the thread, it's the title that bugs me.

I think you can have a perfectly stimulating discussion about why you PREFER one thing to the other without having to debate why one is BETTER or WORSE, and in fact it's fun to do so. In the case of the two things you questioned me on, I really don't have much of a preference either way. I like the live version with real drums, but to me, there's also an immediacy and a "dense" feel to the processed percussion that I also like.

If you asked me if I prefered Awaken to Owner of a Lonely Heart, I have a clear preference. In fact, if drinking, I'd probably tell you that OOALH sucks!

I think I've mellowed with age.

Symbol
09-28-2005, 11:11 AM
Arriving Somewhere (but not here)... I love this song!

new_sum_do_solve_ay
09-28-2005, 11:35 AM
Halo: Following the two commercial singles, Halo continues where Deadwing left off. The song kicks with a great bass line and another repetitive percussive rhythmic pattern which is played throughout the song. The vocals are again distorted but the chorus is catchy and powerful. The lyrics, inspired (I presume) by 9/11, and the Afghanistan & Iraq conflicts, explain how God serves as an effective means of manipulation by using it's authority to justify any action, regardless of how immoral it may be:



This song rocks!!! Can't wait to see the Houston show!

Timmo
09-28-2005, 01:44 PM
You can be right like me
With God in the hole you're a righteous soul
I got a halo round me, I got a halo round me
I'm not the same as you
Cos I've seen the light and I'm gaining in height now
I got a halo round me, I got a halo round me
I got a halo round my head

Halo SO rocks live!

Jaybird
10-22-2005, 11:55 AM
I don't know if this has already been posted somewhere but on my Deadwing disk there is a track 10 that is not listed on the playlist. It has a long silent intro (i.e. a couple minutes of negative countdown before the song actually starts). Does anybody know what the name of this song is? It's not necessarily my favorite song on the CD but its good none the less.

My favorites are probably Lazarus, the Start of Something Beautiful, Arriving Somewhere but not Here and Mellotron Scratch (I tend to like the "mellower" stuff, if you can call it that, really growing on me). Also, in Deadwing some of the guitar work towards the end is very Fripp-like (IMO), which I think is pretty cool.

I'm hoping I get to hear the Sound of Muzak at the Anaheim show Sunday.

Symbol
10-22-2005, 12:14 PM
I don't know if this has already been posted somewhere but on my Deadwing disk there is a track 10 that is not listed on the playlist. It has a long silent intro (i.e. a couple minutes of negative countdown before the song actually starts). Does anybody know what the name of this song is? It's not necessarily my favorite song on the CD but its good none the less.

My favorites are probably Lazarus, the Start of Something Beautiful, Arriving Somewhere but not Here and Mellotron Scratch (I tend to like the "mellower" stuff, if you can call it that, really growing on me). Also, in Deadwing some of the guitar work towards the end is very Fripp-like (IMO), which I think is pretty cool.

I'm hoping I get to hear the Sound of Muzak at the Anaheim show Sunday.

Hey brother! The song you are talking about is called shesmovedon.

Enjoy the show in Anaheim! I will be seeing them next Thursday in Houston.

Jaybird
10-22-2005, 12:22 PM
Hey Pete!

Thanks for the 411. Hope you enjoy your show and look forward to hooking up again soon.

(p.s. man, your avatar looks exactly like how I felt after the end of a rough work deadline crunch last week ;) )