Worst Yes "epic"

[Q]

This is a companion thread to BEST YES EPIC. Why? Because these "Best Of" polls present a statistical quandry - they become more statistically vague as one works one's way down from the most-selected to those infrequently selected.

So this thread is intended to work the statistics from the other direction, to provide a complete picture of what we truly desire in a Yes epic ...

If the epic you hate most is not on the list, by all means correct my oversight with a post below ...

[Jackaranda]

I voted for Homeworld. A couple of others were close. Fortunately, there are more great epics than weak ones..Jack..

[Joedude]

I've played Tales several times over the last month, and I just can't get into The Ancient.

[Yes Oz]

No such thing as a "worst" Yes epic. IMO there is a part of any Yes epic that has some merit and listening values. Even if you don't like all of the song.

And Joedude. Don't giive up on "The Ancient". When Tales was first released I thought it was the lesser track on the album. But then I got it on CD about 6 months ago and "rediscovered" tales and now I love it.

[Plastic Man]

ritual...im sick of that song.

[Dragonfly]

I voted "for" Endless Dream. It's just too religious for my tastes. It even ends in a hymn. No thanks

Dragonfly :yesbird:

[Keith Perks]

This is a tough one. Songs and their meanings can and will depend on your mood and thoughts at the time. What you think is poor one day can sound completely different in a months time.

I will have to give some more thought and listening time before i vote on this one.

[RobAdams]

I voted for ENDLESS DREAM. It just doesn't work for me. The 'Jesus On The Radio' part is a bit annoying. I like the first part of ENDLESS DREAM, but it loses me soon after. I don't hate it though. I even listen to it whenever I play my TALK cd. I very seldom play individual tracks anyway...I almost always play a CD straight through. I think the only YES tracks I skip are OWNER OF A LONELY HEART on 90125 and the single edit of SOON on YESYEARS.

[nightliner]

I voted for That, That is.

I don't understand the dislike for Endless Dream. I think that is the best song done by the Rabin era.

[metaphoricdreamer]

Since I had to pick one.....I chose 'Machine Messiah. ' Its a great song, I love the dynamics of the instrumentals--but for me, a YES epic needs Jon's voice.....I wouldn't call it 'the worst,' I would call it my least favorite.

[BrianD]

Rabin should have stuck with the shorter material with which he has greater expertise. It is not a bad epic, but fails dismally in comparison with the other epics.

[RobAdams]

ENDLESS DREAM....I think it's mostly that section that has the "Jesus on the radio" bit that keeps me from thinking more of this track. The opening part (Hold your head up high you know you've come a long way...) is nice. When Jon first comes in with "It's the last time telling myself everything", that's a really good part of the song. The "Take your time, look round and see" part just seems to go on and on. The reprise of WHERE WILL YOU BE is a nice touch. Overall this is a good track with one part I'd have edited out (Jesus on radio) and another I'd have shortened (so take your time). It's far from being their worst song, but it's my least favorite of their "epics". This is how I feel at least. So many Rabin-era tracks blow this away (in my opinion). FINAL EYES, CHANGES, HEARTS, WHERE WILL YOU BE, MIRACLE OF LIFE, IT CAN HAPPEN, SHOOT HIGH AIM LOW and I'M RUNNING keep me interested, while ENDLESS DREAM doesn't.

[Gustavo]

I can’t believe that Machine Messiah has beaten Mind Drive, That That Is, and Endless Dream for worst epic.

I guess fans are fanatical. MM is great. So Jon didn’t sing on it. Get over it!

Checkout Dream Theatre playing Machine Messiah with Steve Howe on guitar at yesmuseum.org Steve actually cracks a smile!

[Martin Riley]

The Ancient - I'm always prepared to listen to it over again but the first half of this one really grates on me. Not for what it is but for what it could have been. I think it definitely needed more work doing on it. I know it's supposed to be Steve's centrepiece on the album but he is way too forward in the mix and a fuller band arrangement of the first 10 minutes or so would,I think, have been better

[Ahkin]

aargh, I just hate when the topographic epics get votes. but what can you do, all I can say is "listen to it again". I'm a proghead so Ancient has never been a problem for me. Actually, some of the instrumental parts of the piece are exactly what I'd like to do with a band.

[Martin Riley]

Aaaargh!!! - I don't need to listen to it again. I play it often. I don't dislike it - I merely think it could have been improved. I don't hate it - it's just my least favourite - but it's still good. I may be critically redundant but I don't actively dislike anything that Yes has done. Even what I would call the lesser albums(UNION & OYE spring to mind) still have something of value for me.

[1yesfan]

For me Homeworld has not held up well. Good tune, but does not bull me over like many others. Perhaps it's not old enough yet or needs to be played live again.

[bataisflow]

Endless Dream - takes the cake IMO. Great song. but out of all those up there that's the one for me.

[STARRSHIP TROOPER]

Allen Steve Criss John Rick forgive me. I realy can't justify condeming any Yes Song .I must of been thinking of King Crinsum

[markjyes]

I chose "The Remembering", although it has some of my favorite YES moments ("Don the cap..." section) and has a great ending; however, it is just way too padded. When it comes right down to it, it should only be about 10 to 12 minutes long.
"Mind Drive" is also too long, but it flows better than "The Remembering".

Regarding the relgiousness of "Endless Dream", do we not all recognize that YES is a pretty spiritually oriented band? Most YES epics have religiousness overtones and undertones. Let's list the other epics with religious themes:

1) Starship Trooper- Life Seeker is about conversing with God (see '76/'77 Jon interview with Lee Abrams)
2) Close to the Edge- does anyone really need an explanation? All about life after death
3) And You And I- picks right up where "Close to the Edge" left off. 'Sad Preacher nailed upon the colored door of time... In the end we'll agree we'll accept we'll immortalize..."
4) It is well doc'd in the album itself that all of "Tales" is based on religious and spiritual concepts.
5) Gates of Delirium- do people not see the religion in this piece? Paraphrase of Jon quote about "Soon": "Soon Peace. Soon Love. Soon the Second Coming." (see Dan Hedges YES biography)
6) Awaken- inspired by an allegory of Christ called "The Singer" written by Christian author, Calvin Miller. 'Star Song' is a hymn referred to in the book. (see Tim Morse's "YES In Their Own Words" book)
7) Machine Messiah- uh huh
8) That, That Is- "God give a reason", "To be born and like a ship you come safely to shores of love eternal", "healing of the structure center until you reach out and touch your own redemption".
9) Homeworld- symbolic of trying to find our way home (from Interview on the 'House of Blues' DVD)
10) In The Presence Of- Jon states in the 'Symphonic Live" concert DVD that this about being in the presence of the Divine

"Magnification"- the idea of magnifying the good in you is a doctrine you will find in a lot of religions.

And how about "Dear Father", "To Be Over", "Wonderous Stories", "South Side of the Sky", "Footprints", Bring Me to the Power"?

-mjy

"You ask me where to begin. Am I so lost in my sin?... No question I'm not alone. Somehow I'll find my way home."

[smatt]

Originally posted by 1yesfan
For me Homeworld has not held up well. Good tune, but does not bull me over like many others. Perhaps it's not old enough yet or needs to be played live again.


I really didn't care for Homeworld until I saw it live. I thought it held up well live. It does need to find it's way back on stage sometime. It's just so hard to pick wwhat songs I want to hear live anymore!:confused: I want to hear them all!

[jcostello]

I don't think "Endless Dream" holds together as well as a whole as any of the other epics. Is "That, That Is" the song where Jon is singing about "cracktime" or is that the other studio track from "KTA1," because I thought that was weak.

Peace, Love, and Jon Singing About Moms on Crack Just Didn't Strike the Proper Chord with Me,

John C.

[Dragonfly]

Originally posted by markjyes Regarding the religiousness of "Endless Dream", do we not all recognize that YES is a pretty spiritually oriented band? Most YES epics have religiousness overtones and undertones.There is a strong distinction between what is "spiritual" and what is "religious". I am staunchly anti-religious but consider myself a very spiritual person.

[I started going into a variety of definitions here, but realized that that would be for the "Think Tank II" board. I'll leave that part out.]

As soon as Trevor sings about Jesus, the song becomes religious. "Close to the Edge" isn't inherently religious. The words "god", "Jesus" and "heaven" appear nowhere in the album's lyrics. Saying that "Close to the Edge" must be about life after death (again, something not exclusive to religions) is an assumption. Like many Yes songs, the lyrics leave lots of room for interpretation. If that's how it sounds to you, fine.

"Endless Dream", on the other hand, is specifically Christian (as is AB(L)WH's "The Meeting"). It needn't have been. I think it could have been a much better song with out it. In fact, without making obvious religious references - and leaving it up to interpretation - "Endless Dream"'s lyrics would have been more in line with the rest of Yes's songs.

Dragonfly :fly:

P.S. You're right about "The Remembering". I also dislike the finale section of "The Ancient". It sounds like an unfinished afterthought.

P.P.S. I'm not particularly fond of the "crack time" lyrics, but on a strictly musical level, I feel that "That, That Is" is stronger than "Mind Drive". "Mind Drive" has some great lead breaks by Rick (in particular), but falls flat time after time. On "That, That Is", both Rick and Steve do more beautiful work.

[markjyes]

Dragonfly: There is a strong distinction between what is "spiritual" and what is "religious". I am staunchly anti-religious but consider myself a very spiritual person.

"Religious" and "spiritual" go hand in hand to me. In my view you cannot be spiritual and not be religious. For the manner in which you express your spirituality, whether highly organized or deeply spontaneous, is your religion. Someone who belongs to a church/synagogue/etc. who never expresses the spirituality associated with that religion is NOT a religious person to me, as regards their faith of membership anyway; contrariwise, a man who frequently goes for a walk amongst the trees to be with his god and express his spirituality I would consider to be religious. I, consequently, often use the terms spiritual and religious interchangeably. But, I recognize that is a semantics thing.

Dragonfly: As soon as Trevor sings about Jesus, the song becomes religious.

Huh? When did Trevor start singing about Jesus in "Endless Dream"? I only see him singing about people using Jesus to make money.

Dragonfly: Saying that "Close to the Edge" must be about life after death (again, something not exclusive to religions) is an assumption. Like many Yes songs, the lyrics leave lots of room for interpretation. If that's how it sounds to you, fine.

You assumed incorrectly. I had no idea what "Close To The Edge" was about until I heard Jon Anderson explain what it is about: Life continuing on after we die. There may be other sources of him saying this, but you need to get a copy of the "Yes Music: An Evening With Jon Anderson" interview Lee Abrahms did with Jon. It was released in October, 1977 as an lp to a few radio stations. Very few copies exist and it is extremely rare. Sometimes you can find it on ebay. First half of side two you find the explanation of CTTE from Jon himself. Only after I heard that did I have any idea what CTTE was about. The lyrics then made sense to me, though.

Dragonfly: "Endless Dream", on the other hand, is specifically Christian (as is AB(L)WH's "The Meeting").

Again, huh? I am Christian and have NEVER EVER thought that "Endless Dream" had a thing to do with Christian doctrine. In fact, I first thought that it was slamming Christian religions and I was uneasy with the song; but then I realized it was slamming those who may use it to make money. Nonetheless, I have no clue where you come up with "Endless Dream" being a "Christian-specific" song. I've studied and taught Christianity for years in both formal and informal settings. Please explain your statement or at least state your source.

"The Meeting" does reference deity as 'Lord'; however, many non-Christians refer to God as 'Lord'. Yet, Rick wrote the song with Jon, and Rick is pretty Christian, and Jon has had that part of himself as well, so I'll concede that "The Meeting" would seem to be a Christian song; but that is only speculation based on supporting information. I have no source of the song's authors saying this.

Dragonfly: In fact, without making obvious religious references - and leaving it up to interpretation - "Endless Dream"'s lyrics would have been more in line with the rest of Yes's songs.

Again, I am very active in a Christian faith and... I am just a little baffled as to where the Christian doctrine comes in so heavily in "ED" for you. If interested, I will send you my interpretation of "ED". You may be quite surprised at how this Christian views that song.

-mjy


P.S.

Dragonfly: You're right about "The Remembering". I also dislike the finale section of "The Ancient". It sounds like an unfinished afterthought.

Rick W. always said there was a lot of padding on that album....

[jcostello]

Originally posted by Dragonfly
"Mind Drive" has some great lead breaks by Rick (in particular), but falls flat time after time. On "That, That Is", both Rick and Steve do more beautiful work.

I listened to "Mind Drive" again on Friday on a radio show that I co-host once a month on a community radio station and plays primarily prog rock (the show is called "The Great Escape"; go to www.kfai.org for more info), and I didn't find anything falling flat on it. The piece is simply amazing, and in an interesting twist, we played "We Have Heaven" right before it. I forget about the references in "Mind Drive" about getting to heaven, so I was amazed by how well those pieces fit together. I think "Mind Drive" is simply the best epic that Yes has done since "Awaken" on "Going for the One."

Peace, Love, and I Wish They Were Playing It on This Tour,

John C.

[ycantibu]

I don't think the Jesus bit in Endless Dream is religious at all. It seems more a bit against those who use religion to make money off of people and take advantage of them. In fact, if I didn't know Rabin was Jewish, I'd of thought he was atheist with that bit. ;)

[pk]

Never thought I'd see myself bagging a Yes song, but after watching all of my Yes DVD's over the weekend, I CAN'T STAND
Circus of Heaven....

[jcostello]

It's a silly song and a bit of a throwaway, but I like "Circus of Heaven." I should have played it on the show as part of a trilogy with "We Have Heaven" and "Mind Drive" as a "Yes heaven trilogy." Both the Minnesota Renaissance Festival and the Minnesota State Fair begin during this week, and I think of both when I hear the song.

Peace, Love, and I Think that Yes Should Perform at a Renaissance Festival (preferably ours),

John C.

[ycantibu]

Some of us would say rabin *is* Jesus. :D

[jcostello]

Originally posted by ycantibu
Some of us would say rabin *is* Jesus. :D

When he proves that he can multiply loaves and fishes, change water into wine, bring the dead back to life, walk on water, etc., and there's a second coming, then you might be right.

Peace, Love, and It Would Be Cooler If He Was Buddha,

John C.

[ycantibu]

http://www.happinessinslavery.com/trevor/jesus.html


What other proof do ya need? ;)

[RobAdams]

ycantibu - Funny stuff there. I won't be doing any Trevor Rabin worshiping any time soon, but I'm appreciative of where all the Yes members past & present fit into the equation.

[yarstruly]

Too funny! Just more proof that you can find ANYTHING on the internet if you look hard enough!

[Cameron Striewski]

Is it "worst" or least favorite? Yes music bends with my life enough that I can't tell the good from the bad, its all just a reflection of what I'm into. As for the poll, I voted "Machine Massiah" only because I haven't heard it lately. I'll pick up Dream Theatre to be sure. Also, although I'm not hung up on Jon, I do prefer Jon's voice, and believe that it is key to my enjoyment of the music. Only Jon sings in a range that uplifts my spirit and pleasure.
I never got into listening to the lyrics so much that I couldn't enjoy a song. It has to do with many more elements flowing and rising that I get excited about. Jon's early lyrics were so abstract at the time that I first started listening, that words never really mattered, only poetic streams that accent as an instrument. I guess, as a result, I've never payed much attention. If I want to get caught up in the lyrics, I might as well listen to Brittany sing about how inbetween being a woman and girl she is. Hmmm... something to ponder.
Half the songs in the poll wouldn't necessarily be "epics" in my book. Homeworld is only half an epic, and "New Language" was forgotten (and might have gotten my poll vote).
"And You And I", I think of a successful love song, powerful, but a love song.
Jesus Lyrics in "Endless Dream"? Never noticed before, I just read the lyrics to South Side of the Sky for the first time ever after seeing the 2002 tour!
Isn't a rising fish the symbol for Jesus? I did have a religious experience during Chris's solo this summer, and I think that song clocked in at "epic" length as well, but I guess that would be another poll entirely.

Cam

[illusion]

ycantibu - that is hilarious.

"Endless Dream" seems to be religious to me, reinforced by the awful hymn. The difference between the other spiritual Yes songs and "Endless Dream" is that the spiritual message is less obvious in the other songs than "ED".

Compare it to Britney Spears. The billboards don't say "Buy My Album Because You Want To Shag Me" (Endless Dream), instead the same message is portrayed in a less obvious manner (Other Yes songs).

I have no problem with the religion in ED - it's just a bit boring. Some excellent bits, some crap bits.

"The Rembering" for me is the worst, altho I voted differently earlier.

[Jackaranda]

I guess I'm more than a bit surprised that Machine Messiah and Endless Dream are getting so many votes. In 27 years of being a Yes fan, I consider Endless Dream to be one their finest, and most groundbreaking, efforts ever.

That, That is is pretty weak. But one really great effort came from SLO, Mind Drive. That song, imho, is the best thing they've done since Rabin left...Jack.

[yessongs72]

Worst Yes Epic's. The noise from Trauma,big Generator,Union,Talk and Open Your Eyes. That should just about cover the worst epic's!

[ronsalehnasir]

I can't find it in me to apply even the relative term "worst" to anything Yes has done, since there is so much in the way of real crap out there. I'd rather state my preferences among the "epics," such as Close to the Edge, Relayer and Tales. I thought that I could live without "Endless Dream" until a person on this website got me to give it another whirl. I like it. I like everything Yes has done.

[Dragonfly]

I have to agree with ronsalehnasir on this one. Much as I continue to feel disappointed with the band's biggest Christian anthem, "Endless Dream", I still like parts of it and would not want to lose my copy of it. I'm sure it'll get another spin at my house.

"Worst" is a bid harsh. "Least Favorite" seems easier to work with.

Dragonfly :fly:

[Nautilus]

Let me just say that they should have finished with the kind of drek (musically that is) featured in Perpetual Change on the first album.

So either that or SK is my least favorite.
And no I don't prefer Rabin.

[Dr Yes]

Was going to go for Endlessly Dull Dream, but opted for Mind Drive (just) over That That Is - two 'epic' piles of pants from a creatively weak period (IMO).

[gathernear]

I didn't vote. I don't like this whole thread.

[Mr. Holland]

Originally posted by Joedude
I've played Tales several times over the last month, and I just can't get into The Ancient.

I have exactly the same thing, but then with "the Remembering"!

[leqin]

All of them

[yes...inspired]

It is hard to single out the worst yes epic..."worst yes epic"...is that an oxymoron? Anyway, I agree with a previous yesfan that any yes epic without Jon's voice automatically qualifies.
I am surprised Starship Trooper is even an option. Also, I believe "In the presence of" is probably the most underrated yessong...what a beautiful piece it is...

[Rabin105]

Originally posted by Plastic Man
ritual...im sick of that song.
i enjoyed it on the past two tour as i did close to the edge but am starting to get a little tired of both

[Dragonfly]

I can't believe anyone thinks "That, That Is" is the worst epic they've done. Personally, I think it's the best thing to come out of the whole KEYS TO ASCENSION effort. (If anything, "Mind Drive" sucks ass, but I digress.)

I think what most people don't like about "That, That Is" is the lyrical content. Get over it! The melodies, the instrumentation, the rhythms are what make this a great song. And writing about people is hardly a new thing for Jon. "Harold Land" on the first album, "Rohan" (and what a geeky name that is. Did your parents want you to get your ass kicked in school?") in "Turn of the Century" are both about specific characters. (“The Messenger” doesn’t quite count as Bob Marley isn’t named in the lyrics.) And neither of these are particularly happy songs.

My challenge to those who doubt is to play "That, That Is" again and completely ignore the lyrics. Listen, instead, to Steve’s and Rick’s work in particular. It’s beautiful!

Dragonfly :fly:

[Rabin105]

Originally posted by Dragonfly
I can't believe anyone thinks "That, That Is" is the worst epic they've done. Personally, I think it's the best thing to come out of the whole KEYS TO ASCENSION effort. (If anything, "Mind Drive" sucks ass, but I digress.)

I think what most people don't like about "That, That Is" is the lyrical content. Get over it! The melodies, the instrumentation, the rhythms are what make this a great song. And writing about people is hardly a new thing for Jon. "Harold Land" on the first album, "Rohan" (and what a geeky name that is. Did your parents want you to get your ass kicked in school?") in "Turn of the Century" are both about specific characters. (“The Messenger” doesn’t quite count as Bob Marley isn’t named in the lyrics.) And neither of these are particularly happy songs.

My challenge to those who doubt is to play "That, That Is" again and completely ignore the lyrics. Listen, instead, to Steve’s and Rick’s work in particular. It’s beautiful!

Dragonfly :fly:
Very true Dragonfly (plus listen to chris and rick play off each other really cool)

[Kevin Still]

Can't vote... like 'em all!:cheers:

[SonicDeath10]

the ancient bothers me quite a bit.

strangely enough nobody voted for awaken at all. awaken is a great song but i can't believe not one person disliked it.

[BredYes]

I love them all so I don't vote.

[Starship Trooper]

I voted for That, That Is.

Most people commenting on this tune suggested "getting over the lyrics" or listening to just the music without the lyrics.

I've done just that and the lyrics aren't the reason for my vote. What irritates me so much about this piece is HOW GOOD IT COULD HAVE BEEN. There are wonderful moments that just weren't connected together with good transitions. It totally shows that the band didn't spend enough time together working on this piece.

All Yes epics have at least a few strong musical ideas and themes, but smooth transitions from one musical theme to the next separates the Close to the Edges/Awakens/Gates of Deliriums from weaker stuff like the Tales/That, That Is/Mind Drive pieces.

In "That, That Is" the use of the fade out/fade up to move from the softer, spacey section into the fast-moving part with Jon singing about somebody losing the baby and doing crack was really weak. It was a good example of those times where Yes had several separate ideas and didn't work hard enough on connecting them together in strong fashion.

Actually, I don't think those two radically different themes should even have been combined together into one song. They don't fit each other. You go from the very beautiful (perhaps as beautiful as anything they've ever done) section that is total classic Yes into the obnoxious fast section that isn't classic-Yes at all. I just don't like it at all.

I still listen to this tune, but it's not worthy of being played live and is one of my least favorties.

[Rabin105]

I love them all

[Dantalion Rides Again]

Originally posted by Starship Trooper
I voted for That, That Is. . . . smooth transitions from one musical theme to the next separates the Close to the Edges/Awakens/Gates of Deliriums from weaker stuff like the Tales/That, That Is/Mind Drive pieces.

Hi Starship Trooper -

I love this tune, but you know. . . . I love just about everything Yes. But relatively speaking, I agree with you. I would bet our list of epics by preference would resemble each other.

I feel the same way about "That, That Is", and I think the same can be said for "Mind Drive". Although I like them both, they have something keeping them from being as cool as other great epic Yes tunes.

It can be hard to voice what it is that makes one song preferable to another. In this case you put my finger on it. You hit the song right on the head. Uh, . . . I'd say you took it off the tip of my tongue, but let's not get into personal space and appropriate behavor. :silly:

I didn't vote, btw. There are a couple I'd have to choose between and who knows if they'd be mad at me. Don't want to get beat up; all those songs are much bigger than I am.

[Stever]

I was really torn between Mind Drive and That, That Is. They're alright I suppose, but really not up to snuff in the Yes canon imho. I find them a bit lacking in the rich melody and drama that most Yes epics contain. I went with That, that is. Mind Drive had a bit more direction, I think in the end.

I was a little taken aback to see that Machine Messiah and Endless Dream drew any votes at all for worst epic, let alone as many as they did. Goes to show how many different kinds of music listeners and Yes fans there are. Wow. Really puzzles me. I'll read some of the accompanying posts to see what some of those folks are working off of. My guess is, they were either not considered epics by the voters due to they're relative brevity, or that the votes were based on peoples' dislike of the Buggles or Rabin line up's of Yes in general rather than the melody, structure, emotion and impact of the pieces themselves.

Peace out,

Stever

[SonicDeath10]

i love machine messiah and endless dream myself, but i'm not surprised a lot of people didn't like them. the mindset that "yes without jon or steve=----" is very common in a lot of Yes fans. i do not agree with that at all, obviously, but i can understand the belief though.

[Rabin105]

i love machine messiah and endless dream myself, but i'm not surprised a lot of people didn't like them. the mindset that "yes without jon or steve=----" is very common in a lot of Yes fans. i do not agree with that at all, obviously, but i can understand the belief though.
I agree 100% I don't agree with it at all but of other people want to belive it fine. Me I love drama I love 90125 and Big generator and talk. Union well great idea in theroy, great material, the songs are great live, The album well it sucked. Endless dream and Machine messiah are great I also like Mind drive and That That Is (though both tend to lag on) Homeworld well I love it live the studio version lacks a bit

[About The Round]

Endless Dream. Trevor can't do prog. Nice bits – but doesn't bring the whole.

[Rabin105]

Endless Dream. Trevor can't do prog. Nice bits – but doesn't bring the whole.
If rick Bill and steve were apart of it the song probably would have done betyter on the list and probably would of been a better song

[jcostello]

I was really torn between Mind Drive and That, That Is. They're alright I suppose, but really not up to snuff in the Yes canon imho. I find them a bit lacking in the rich melody and drama that most Yes epics contain. I went with That, that is. Mind Drive had a bit more direction, I think in the end.

I was a little taken aback to see that Machine Messiah and Endless Dream drew any votes at all for worst epic, let alone as many as they did. Goes to show how many different kinds of music listeners and Yes fans there are. Wow. Really puzzles me. I'll read some of the accompanying posts to see what some of those folks are working off of. My guess is, they were either not considered epics by the voters due to they're relative brevity, or that the votes were based on peoples' dislike of the Buggles or Rabin line up's of Yes in general rather than the melody, structure, emotion and impact of the pieces themselves.

Peace out,

Stever

If you went to the Yesshows on the recent U.S. tour, I think Yes proved that "Mind Drive" certainly DOES NOT deserve to be voted worst Yes epic, not by a long shot. It was an absolute Monster (in the best possible sense) live, although if it was my band and I was calling the shots, I would have done the medley with just "Mind Drive" and "South Side." As I've said before, "Endless Dream" seemed to have a better intensity and cohesion to it live than it did on the album, but some of the lyrics are as bad as anything on "Open Your Eyes" (or some of the other bad lyrics scattered through Trevor's four (if you count the four songs from "Union" and "9012Live" as two half-albums) albums with Yes.

There are some good melodic bits, some others run into deadends. Structurally, as I've said, it doesn't quite seem to hold together and flow as a whole. The weak lyrics in parts (especially at the end) undermine a song that otherwise works on an emotional level, and also lessen its overall impact. Mind Drive's ending doesn't quite fit with the rest of the piece, either, but I like it the more that I hear it.

John C.

[SonicDeath10]

i fell in love with machine messiah from the beginning i think it's one of hte best yesepics ever. some stuff off of AWBH probably is the worst even though that's not officially yes it's close enough darn it!

[Gabriel]

Like a few others, I cant get into all of 'The Ancient' but I love the first 5 minutes and I still think the track is enjoyable.

[Earl Grey]

The worst YES epic was the single-edit of 5% For Nothing.

:ele:

[jcostello]

i fell in love with machine messiah from the beginning i think it's one of hte best yesepics ever. some stuff off of AWBH probably is the worst even though that's not officially yes it's close enough darn it!

I consider the ABWH albums to be Yes (even if they didn't own the name, it's basically Yes without Chris), and I think they're great, including the semi-epic "Order of the Universe."

John C.

[Timmo]

I'm noticing the "Mind Drive sucks" comments seemed to have gone away since the performed it live on the last tour.

Personally, it's one of my favorites. I love the Keys stuff.

My vote was for "Machine Messiah." I just cannot get into the Trevor(s) period, even though I try and have many YesWhole friends who keep PUSHING! (kidding)

TIM
Venice, CA

[SonicDeath10]

I consider the ABWH albums to be Yes (even if they didn't own the name, it's basically Yes without Chris), and I think they're great, including the semi-epic "Order of the Universe."

John C. oddly enough i just listened to ABWH the other day after having not for a long time and found it quite enjoyable, although i think they come across better on the evening of yes music live. i just wish tony levin's bass was higher on that album. he's on the same pier as chris.

although... i've been trying to teach myself squire's bass lines and heh....

[SonicDeath10]

I'm noticing the "Mind Drive sucks" comments seemed to have gone away since the performed it live on the last tour.

Personally, it's one of my favorites. I love the Keys stuff.

My vote was for "Machine Messiah." I just cannot get into the Trevor(s) period, even though I try and have many YesWhole friends who keep PUSHING! (kidding)

TIM
Venice, CA
i'm one of those yeswhole people i suppose although i don't like union much at all...

disliking one album doesn't get me off the yeswhole list does it? :(

[pauli]

I just saw this thread pop up again, so I went in and voted for "Machine Messiah". Sorry, but this just reminds me of a bad Styx song.
"That, That Is" is a close second, because of the lyrics.

I like "Mind Drive" better now than I did 2 months ago, but I still prefer "Footprints" out of all the Keys material...

But that's just me.

[SonicDeath10]

styx was never as heavy as machine messiah though.

[pauli]

styx was never as heavy as machine messiah though.
Agreed, but that's what always pops into my head, and then it's game over.

[SonicDeath10]

that sucks actually.

honestly i can't think of what i'd say was the "worst" yes epic. honestly most of the stuff on keys to ascension or keystudio or whatever leaves me a bit cold. it sounds impressive and stuff and it's well written but i don't feel the real emotion. i do like mind drive though.

[Timmo]

that sucks actually.

honestly i can't think of what i'd say was the "worst" yes epic. honestly most of the stuff on keys to ascension or keystudio or whatever leaves me a bit cold. it sounds impressive and stuff and it's well written but i don't feel the real emotion. i do like mind drive though.There is nothing "unemotional" about "Children of Light."

TIM
Venice, CA

[SonicDeath10]

i don't doubt jon's total commitment and emotion to what he's singing. jon always sings about everything with complete commitment.

it's the playing that leaves me a bit cold.

[Rabin105]

Mind drive is also emotional

[Mr. Holland]

Mind drive is also emotional

And especially live that is 200% proven. What a masterfull piece of music it is!

[Rabin105]

And especially live that is 200% proven. What a masterfull piece of music it is!
can't wait to see it live

[umgekehrt]

Define "epic"

[SonicDeath10]

Define "epic" like close to the edge, gates of delirium, tales from topographic, awaken etc. those songs by Yes that are almost classical in nature, and usually are up to at least 12 minutes, sometimes 20. multiple sections. grandiose theme.

and i'm listening to mind drive right now and while it is well put together and the music is good i just don't feel the energy or the passion like i once did on Yes epics. unlike on Talk where i can feel it and even OYE around that time. and like i feel on the ladder and magnification. maybe it's because the key to ascension stuff is almost "classist" yes, where as the other stuff is yes trying new things and pushing forward. although to be honest the stuff on keys to ascension is good, so i guess i can't say it's really "bad" but i still don't think the band's heart was 100% into that material.

:sephiroth

[umgekehrt]

and i'm listening to mind drive right now and while it is well put together and the music is good i just don't feel the energy or the passion like i once did on Yes epics.

Well said and that's also my feelings about Keystudio. They lack energy somehow, and although like someone has said, there's a part of Mind Drive that's quite intense, it's just not as intense as CTTE or Ritual was or Dreamtime will be (I consider Dreamtime to be an epic, although it's less than 12 minutes).

[SonicDeath10]

magnification is one of the best albums that Yes has ever done. dreamtime is an epic, 12 was just a number i threw out ;). i mean most of the songs on The Yes Album i consider epic and they ain't even ten. :)

[umgekehrt]

But by far, if we're talking about "intense" part in an epic, there's nothing that comes even close to that keyboard solo in Gates!

[SonicDeath10]

howe's final solo before the soon section is practically the epitome of intense beauty in guitar playing. he's not playing as fast as he can, but the notes he picks, and especially that last high ringing note... it sometimes brings tears to my eyes.

[Faceintheplace]

The Yes epic I like the least is "Endless Dream". It starts off very powerful, but I find it loses momentum in the second half.

[Serious Dreamer]

I voted for Machine Messiah

[paulovajao]

definitly-"Machine Messiah"

[Rabin105]

MM one of the best

[BlueEagle]

THAT, THAT IS- the "parts" are interesting but it sounds too stapled together- like pieces of several unfinished songs.

[Rabin105]

THAT, THAT IS- the "parts" are interesting but it sounds too stapled together- like pieces of several unfinished songs.
True it also a bit to long suprisingly though they recorded it "live" in the studio playing it all the way through once and that isd the version on keys 2

[prem895]

Minddrive by far

[Scooty]

My Gawd!!

ummmmmm

Sorry Cinderella, Jane Eyre, and any other Trevite I can think of

but Endless Dream takes the cake.......

nice try..but no go...

Scoot

[pianozach]

i don't doubt jon's total commitment and emotion to what he's singing. jon always sings about everything with complete commitment.



I don't know. He sounds a little out of his element on "City of Love." (One of my favorite songs off of 90125 in spite of his "Tough Guy" posturing.)

Trevor probably should have sung it.

[mattquarterstein]

I'd vote Dreamtime, if I could.

[Mr. Holland]

Dreamtime, really?? I think that is the best song on Magnification. I love it (well, with the exception of the orchestral outro whch i don't care for that much)!!

[mattquarterstein]

Yeah, doesn't really grab me. It's probably my least favourite track on Magnification.

[Mr. Holland]

Yeah...to each his own. That is the great thing about Yesmusic, there's something for everybody's taste.....

[mattquarterstein]

Absolutely.

[Rogo]

Hum. Now it's That, that is at 40 with Machine Messiah second at 38. I've never heard TTI but I voted for MM myself. It's too much Black Sabbath, and the Drama album itself represents too much of a let down after I'd only gotten into Yes with Tormato.

I'm disappointed that The Ancient has such a great lead on The Remembering from TFTO in this poll. Come on! The Ancient is innovative and exciting, and Steve's solo is interstellar, uncompromising atonality! And it's not even jazz! Howe often has that happened in rock? The Remembering, on the other hand, is my second choice of all the epics here. It's vague, formless, plodding and boring.

I now see that Awaken has one vote. Incredible. That song, along with CTTE maybe, has no faults whatsoever. Even Heart of the Sunrise has one: The Keystone Cops keyboard bit in the middle.

[mattquarterstein]

Quartet! There's one that should be on there, even if it is ABWH.

[SonicDeath10]

Hum. Now it's That, that is at 40 with Machine Messiah second at 38. I've never heard TTI but I voted for MM myself. It's too much Black Sabbath, and the Drama album itself represents too much of a let down after I'd only gotten into Yes with Tormato.

I'm disappointed that The Ancient has such a great lead on The Remembering from TFTO in this poll. Come on! The Ancient is innovative and exciting, and Steve's solo is interstellar, uncompromising atonality! And it's not even jazz! Howe often has that happened in rock? The Remembering, on the other hand, is my second choice of all the epics here. It's vague, formless, plodding and boring.

I now see that Awaken has one vote. Incredible. That song, along with CTTE maybe, has no faults whatsoever. Even Heart of the Sunrise has one: The Keystone Cops keyboard bit in the middle. That solo goes on too long in the Ancient. It bothers me. It's too atonal! And I listen to Sonic Youth...

Also I think The Remembering's stucture and form is pretty well defined. It's just the melody that's plodding and boring unless you're in the right mood. if you can take it, it's beautiful. If not it's crap, I agree.

[Siberian Firebird]

"That, That Is" by a country mile. Even the title is ill-conceived.

I can't believe my eyes that "Machine Messiah" is a close second...

[Nut]

Worst Epic? I don't understand?

[Rabin105]

To be honest i havven't listened to all of tales i of course havbe listend to ritual and Reavealin the other 2 well haven't listeened to it and kind of scared too. had it only been one houre of music instead of 2 it probably would be better bgut then wee nevber would of hagates so eh

[Timmo]

And Tales is truly at its best when listened to in it's entirety.

I can virtually guarantee that if you take someone with an existing penchant for epic-length Yes tracks already (especially if the already love CTTE, TGoD and Awaken), sit them down and make them listen to Tales, start to finish, a couple times over about a week, they will LOVE it.

In high schools, if you liked Tales you were considered a "Yes FREAK." There were a few of us, and we were invariably the die-hard fans. Tales was too daunting for a casual listener to explore.

Also, if you listen to all of Tales over a fairly short period, if you like any of it I have a feeling you'll like all of it. It took years to really appreciate "The Ancient," but it makes so much sense in context of the whole album it's now probably my favorite movement. But the difference between my favorite and least favorite (TRSOG) is tiny.

[jcostello]

Worst Epic? I don't understand?

Some of the Yes epics are considered bad by someone, or there is one that someone considers to be of lesser quality than the rest.

John Crazed Yesfan

[jcostello]

Quartet! There's one that should be on there, even if it is ABWH.

Can't agree with that, I like "Quartet." Also, as I've said before on other threads, I consider ABWH to be Yes, even if it is Fish-free and Levined with Tony.

John Super Mega Yesfan

[Stever]

I find TTI to be kind of contrived, and a bit of a yawner musically. I know it's a fave of many here. Sorry. Just my opinion. Easily the weakest of the acknolwedged "epics"

[Koko]

endless dream - because it REALLY does feel endless ( can't believe yes included it on a YES album ) Terribly boring and stretched and stretched aaand yaaawn - see just talking about it has the same affect as the track itself.....

[Flo]

I find TTI to be kind of contrived, and a bit of a yawner musically. I know it's a fave of many here. Sorry. Just my opinion. Easily the weakest of the acknolwedged "epics"

Stever, I just can't find out which track TTI is. Could you refresh my memory ?

[Stever]

Stever, I just can't find out which track TTI is. Could you refresh my memory ?

I'm sorry......"That That Is"

[Timmo]

Try actually smoking crack and THEN say it's TTI.

Then you've got my attention.

[Stever]

How did Machine Messiah manage to get so many votes? Really....sometimes I just don't understand whats going on here. Pretty freaky voting these days.

[mattquarterstein]

Yeah, these Trevor Horn bashers! Grrr...

[Topographic][Sardaukar]

why do so many people seem to be bothered by one mention of Jesus in Endless Dream but are perfectly content with an entire album about Hindu scriptures?(Tales)

[mattquarterstein]

That's an interesting point.

[rememberer]

Worst Yes Epic? I probably have a least favorite but can't get my head around the "worst" concept here, this is Yes we are talking about...

Besides at the moment, "That, That Is" is tied for first in this poll, and that's very silly, that was the best thing on Keys or Keystudio, which is one of the best albums they ever did, and which is very high praise coming from a stodgy, spoiled old Trooper like meself. :-)

[cjreyes]

I went with In The Presence Of. I just don't get what people see in it. They must be talkin' about the lyrics or somethin'. The song goes nowhere to me. :shrug:

[bike]

Not on the list, but I would propose "Yours Is No Disgrace" as one of the Yes epics that most needs editing. I like it, but they just play the theme, then repeat it, and again...

[Scooty]

I went with In The Presence Of. I just don't get what people see in it. They must be talkin' about the lyrics or somethin'. The song goes nowhere to me. :shrug:


Oh man Chris..give it another listen, and then listen to it again...

ITPO is my fav Yessong for many many years...

[Malcolm Birkett]

Oh man Chris..give it another listen, and then listen to it again...

ITPO is my fav Yessong for many many years...

Hey Scoot....yes, agreed. Magical...it is pure magic and...well, need I bloody well say more? (say no more!!!...Eric 'Ruttles' Idle!)

It is as near as they have gotten in 'recent' years to a classic Yes track....and ...well....my man...big Al on keyboard intro...(again Mr. Idle)....say no more!!!

[allpurechance]

The worst has to be Be The One from Keys I.

Tired and listless.Maybe I should give it another chance, but it isn't going to be easy!
Alternatively, That, That Is is really good stuff!

[Scooty]

The worst has to be Be The One from Keys I.

Tired and listless.Maybe I should give it another chance, but it isn't going to be easy!
Alternatively, That, That Is is really good stuff!


Frank, I don't care what anyone says..I LOVE That That Is...

Plain and simple...

[Malcolm Birkett]

Quite frankly Scarlett..whoops..sorry...in Hollywood mode here for some reason.

But, quite frankly, I say to myself...Malcolm...it is a waste of time you even beginning to post here 'cos you ain't objective my man!!

True!! ...although I hesitate to admit it...I just bloody love and adore everybloodything that has emitted from His vocal chords and Their compositional and instrumental talents. Oh, on second thoughts, maybe, just maybe, there are some things on Open Your Eyes that don't sit that well alongside the rest...but....jeez..I still adore it!! Chris and Billy..love 'em.

[allpurechance]

Scoot!So nice to feel company with regard to That,That Is!Often we feel so alone in our oh, so objective opinions!

Malcolm, lmaooOOOOOOOOOOoo @ objectivity in a place like this!

(I want to qualify EVERY post I make that contains an opinion with the disclaimer "imho"...and durned near every post I make contains an opinion, imho...:lmao:)

(nudge, nudge, wink, wink)

Ah, Chris and Billy:The best thing on Union, without a shadow of a doubt is The More We Live/Let Go...

(i)
(m)
(h)
(o)

lmaooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

:frankie:

[True Believer]

The worst has to be Be The One from Keys I.

Tired and listless.Maybe I should give it another chance, but it isn't going to be easy!
Alternatively, That, That Is is really good stuff!
I LOVE Be The One!

[MrZuLu]

once again...

where is the "None Of The Above" selection?

[Rabin105]

once again...

where is the "None Of The Above" selection?
agreed all the song i find cool.

alirght i admit it i haven't listened to The ANchient or the Remebering and yes because i'm afraid i won't like it but some day i'll havbe the ears to listen to it.

[justyes]

I voted AYAI but I don't think it's the worst one it just bores me sometimes (as all the songs do) and it does more often than other.

[Imperatrix]

That, That Is. Parts of it just go nowhere, IMHO; it has a lot of notes just for the sake of having a lot of notes.

Matt did an incredible edit of this piece a few years ago; I much prefer to listen to it than the original recording. I call it Th Th I. :dog:

[Joe]

Sorry.............
Can't vote here. I love em all!


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/joeykeyz/Music/linkyes.gif

[SonicDeath10]

That, That Is. Parts of it just go nowhere, IMHO; it has a lot of notes just for the sake of having a lot of notes.

Matt did an incredible edit of this piece a few years ago; I much prefer to listen to it than the original recording. I call it Th Th I. :dog:

To me, the Keys To Ascension studio tracks were the band struggling through learning how to write epic songs again. Growing pains can be TOUGH and they are here. There are good moments though.

[cactus jon]

Don't ban me for this but:

THIS IS A STUPID THREAD!!!

The worst YES epic (is there such a thing?) is better than 99.99% of all the other popular music out there.

[bike]

I'm going to be extremely controversial and say "Awaken". Not because it's the worst; I guess "That, That Is" and "Mind Drive" and a few others are worse. I've just always felt that "Awaken" is overrated. For me, it doesn't even touch CTTE, Gates, Ritual, Starship Trooper, Heart of the Sunrise, AYAI or Siberian Khatru. I never understood all the love for it. But I can't stand Genesis' Wind & Wuthering either, so maybe you shouldn't listen to me.

[new_sum_do_solve_ay]

Machine Messiah is a dumb theme and a dumb song on an album that lacked Jon's guidance. Weak. I don't think you can have a good epic without Jon.

[MrZuLu]

Don't ban me for this but:

THIS IS A STUPID THREAD!!!

The worst YES epic (is there such a thing?) is better than 99.99% of all the other popular music out there.
thank you for that, Jon!

I must reiterate that this does not reflect true yesfans

YesFan is short for Yes Fanatic...

you are either a fanatic or not

no gray...

It's black or white...

No inbetweens... that is what fanaticism is all about!

oh by the way

That is my opinion

this is an opinion I share with just a very special few people!

:aaa[1]:

[Imperatrix]

thank you for that, Jon!

I must reiterate that this does not reflect true yesfans

YesFan is short for Yes Fanatic...

you are either a fanatic or not

no gray...

It's black or white...

No inbetweens... that is what fanaticism is all about!

oh by the way

That is my opinion

this is an opinion I share with just a very special few people!

:aaa[1]:

Guess I'm out, then...:crybby:...I'm only fanatical about chocolate. And feminism. And gay rights. And cats. And malachite. And Ancient Egypt. And...

[Altres]

Be The One gets my vote: except it isn't an option. LOL

brian

[YesJen357]

'None of the above' gets my firm vote!
Does this thread insult the songs on this list?
Worst? - Geez! Sheesh!
Come-on; there isn't a weak song on the list IMHO.

[MrZuLu]

'None of the above' gets my firm vote!
Does this thread insult the songs on this list?
Worst? - Geez! Sheesh!
Come-on; there isn't a weak song on the list IMHO.
http://bestsmileys.com/clueless/1.gif
I know it's weird, huh?

[SonicDeath10]

How about least great?!

[MrZuLu]

least favorite would be more appropo I would think...

I mean come on...
http://bestsmileys.com/anxious/4.gif
we are not talking about led zeppelin here fer cryin' out loud!!!

[Witch Seasoner]

Guess I'm out, then...:crybby:...I'm only fanatical about chocolate. And feminism. And gay rights. And cats. And malachite.


Oh yeah? How come I never seen you round MalachiteFans then, hmmmm?

...

:winknudge

[RandyC]

Wow, so many people don't like Machine Messiah??? :confused:
I love that song & think Drama is a fantastic album.
Granted, Jon is not on it, but, I think it is a very high energy
album. Chris' playing ,for one, is excellent.

[MrZuLu]

the fact that so many people(256) even voted for a worst Yes song is beyond me...

[rememberer]

"Worst" epic seemingly implies that some requirement of "bad" epic has been met, and I don't really see any "bad" songs on the list.

Gotta go with "None of the above" here.

Or Awaken if I want to be a d**k. But there's really nothing wrong with that song except I think Jon underrated his harp skills and plays it a bit close to the cuff with the composition which makes the tune just a little snoozy for me, but that's a minor criticism anyway, and by now I've heard versions that make me sit up at attention.

So yeah, "None of the above".

[Terry Shea]

Endless Dream should have been entitled "Endless Nightmare"!

[CybrKhatru]

"Worst" is a relative term...my least-favorite Yes tune is better than many artists' best tune IMO!

But...I voted for Mind Drive. Based on the studio version, I've always felt it needed to be in the oven a little longer. The way Yes played it in 2004 was righteous, though! A vast improvement....

--Matt

[YesJen357]

Endless Dream should have been entitled "Endless Nightmare"!

Oowwcccchhhhh!
You stabbed me right in the heart.
Lucky I have a strong heart......

I soar whenever I hear Endless Dream. - Each to their own! :)

[SST]

Endless Dream always brings a tear to me. Like you said to each their own.
PEACE, STEVE

[pedro skychaser]

worst YES epic...

i know these 3 words but this sentence makes no sense to me...

[jcostello]

the fact that so many people(256) even voted for a worst Yes song is beyond me...

"Worst" is a relative term. The "worst" Yes song is still probably better than a lot of songs other bands do. I may not be a big fan of the "Talk" album, but it was still one of the better albums of 1994, although I may be damning it with faint praise by saying that.

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

[jcostello]

Endless Dream always brings a tear to me. Like you said to each their own.
PEACE, STEVE

It's more likely to make me scratch my head (or make me apathetic) than bring me any tears. To slightly rewrite an old saying, "No use crying over spilt epic."

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

[jcostello]

The worst YES epic was the single-edit of 5% For Nothing.

:ele:

It's not nearly long enough to be an epic though, is it?

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

[jcostello]

[Sardaukar;366353']why do so many people seem to be bothered by one mention of Jesus in Endless Dream but are perfectly content with an entire album about Hindu scriptures?(Tales)

Until you folks brought it up, I didn't realize that there were ANY references to Jesus in "Endless Dream." Guess I'll have to go back and listen to the song again.

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

[jcostello]

Frank, I don't care what anyone says..I LOVE That That Is...

Plain and simple...

I like parts of it, but they lose me when Jon starts singing about "cracktime." Maybe that part would have worked better on a Jon solo album. Then again, probably not.

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

[jcostello]

I LOVE Be The One!

Yeah, I really like it, too!

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

[jcostello]

That, That Is. Parts of it just go nowhere, IMHO; it has a lot of notes just for the sake of having a lot of notes.

Matt did an incredible edit of this piece a few years ago; I much prefer to listen to it than the original recording. I call it Th Th I. :dog:

Could I get a copy of that from either you or Matt? I'm curious to hear what he did with it.

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

[CybrKhatru]

Could I get a copy of that from either you or Matt? I'm curious to hear what he did with it.

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

(sheepishly) Actually, the edit I did was not for TTI, but for Mind Drive...

I think I still have it around here somewhere, but I haven't listened to it in years...and since the '04 shows I either play the full version or one of the live versions!

--Matt

[Imperatrix]

Oh yeah? How come I never seen you round MalachiteFans then, hmmmm?

...

:winknudge

:dog: Um...because I lurk in "invisible" mode over there... :dog:

[Imperatrix]

(sheepishly) Actually, the edit I did was not for TTI, but for Mind Drive...

I think I still have it around here somewhere, but I haven't listened to it in years...and since the '04 shows I either play the full version or one of the live versions!

--Matt

OMG..how embarrassing. Mr Costello and Matt, I am so sorry. Please attribute this misrepresentation to my crappy short-term memory...!

[CybrKhatru]

OMG..how embarrassing. Mr Costello and Matt, I am so sorry. Please attribute this misrepresentation to my crappy short-term memory...!

Fuhgeddaboudit babe! :valintine

[shortexchanges]

be the one lyrics are weak.

[Joe]

The one they're

NOT DOING ANYMORE!

I want my YES back!!!!

[CybrKhatru]

Wait! Wait! I've got it...

"Lady Of The Lake"

:lmao:


Waitaminnit...

[jcostello]

How did Machine Messiah manage to get so many votes? Really....sometimes I just don't understand whats going on here. Pretty freaky voting these days.

Apparently, 18.2 percent of us refuse to bow down and worship the "Machine Messiah" ("Not me, I love it. I'll eat the spam, dear!" -- "Monty Python"). I stand by my original opinions; you can "hold on" to the "cracktime" and "endless dream," I don't want them.

Although, if I could vote again, I would also cast a vote for "Soundchaser," even though it's a "mini-epic" (not to be confused with a "mini donut," sometimes I like those) rather than a true, 14+ minute epic. I listened to it again in California for the first time in a while, and I don't like it nearly as much as "To Be Over," and certainly not as much as "Gates."

-- John C.

[Timmo]

Although I like "Machine Messiah," of that list it's my least favorite.

I love "That, That Is."

[Amy]

Ditto what Timmo said.

[Scooty]

The Remembering...would have been a terrific 5-6 minute piece.

Most of it, I am sorry to say is down right B O R I NG.

[pedro skychaser]

don the cap+close your eyes imagine all the gloriuous challenge
a metal cast to others...i could go on...heh chief squireSquadder-chris reckons its some of his best work!!!

sure rick was probly wishin' he was with sabbath suckin p*ss but what can you do????

[Witch Seasoner]

The Remembering...would have been a terrific 5-6 minute piece.

Most of it, I am sorry to say is down right B O R I NG.


This is why people are just so darn interesting! See, for me, The Remembering is the only song on that album that I wouldn't change a note of!

We have very different feelings and opinions about that piece, and the great thing is that we're both right! Hooray for music!

:drummer:

[RickyG]

I apparently voted for Endless Dream sometime ago, but if I could vote again I would choose Machine Messiah as the worst. But "worst" is a bad term, would have been better to say "least favorite". There are portions of both of these epics that I like and portions that I think are kind of bad, rather unattractive music. But I wouldn't really want to apply the word "worst" to any of them. "Worst" also implies that at least several of them are bad and that is not the case.

The Remembering is one of the 5 or 6 BEST YES epics as far as my ears are concerned!!!

Starship Trooper I wouldn't even include in the poll. It's not an epic.
In The Presence Of and Heart of The Sunrise are mini-epics and I personally wouldn't include them in the same poll either.

[happytheman]

The Remembering...would have been a terrific 5-6 minute piece.

Most of it, I am sorry to say is down right B O R I NG.
I once did an "edit" of The Remembering and came up with about 10 minutes. I didn't miss a thing when listening to it.

[jcostello]

I once did an "edit" of The Remembering and came up with about 10 minutes. I didn't miss a thing when listening to it.

Any chance that I could get a copy of that? I'd be curious to hear what you edited out.

I'd like to do that with "The Ancient" and "Soundchaser," although I'm not sure how much would be left of them after I got done.

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

[happytheman]

Any chance that I could get a copy of that? I'd be curious to hear what you edited out.

I'd like to do that with "The Ancient" and "Soundchaser," although I'm not sure how much would be left of them after I got done.

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan
This was years ago when I "condensed" Tales. I've long since worn out that tape. Steve did something similar when he did Not necessarily Live. As I recall for The remembering I pulled out all of the spacey synth stuff that Rick did. Mostly left the acoustic parts. Ritual was another where I chopped quite a bit out of. Rick called it "padding" I simply call it repetitiveness .

[JL]

I have my favorite Yes epics, but I am not prepared to deem any of the others the "worst".

[Australian]

LOVE all Yes epics, no joke there but If I had to name one I don’t find too amazing it would be “Heart of the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Sunrise</st1:place></st1:City>.”

[jcostello]

LOVE all Yes epics, no joke there but If I had to name one I don’t find too amazing it would be “Heart of the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Sunrise</st1:place></st1:City>.”

Give me a second to recover from the shock!

OK, tomorrow morning, when the sun rises, listen to a (preferably live) version of "Heart of the Sunrise." It works, trust me, although if you wake up on the wrong side of the bed, it may not work.

I've often wondered why Yes has never used "Heart of the Sunrise" as a concert opener (and/or done it back-to-back with "Hearts" from "90125"). A sunrise begins a day, so why can't a "Heart of the Sunrise" begin a Yes concert.

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

[jcostello]

This was years ago when I "condensed" Tales. I've long since worn out that tape. Steve did something similar when he did Not necessarily Live. As I recall for The remembering I pulled out all of the spacey synth stuff that Rick did. Mostly left the acoustic parts. Ritual was another where I chopped quite a bit out of. Rick called it "padding" I simply call it repetitiveness .

Do you still have the tape, or did you throw it out when it became too worn out to play? I'd gladly go for a copy of it on tape, I can play it on the tape player in my car (which I'm always grateful for, because now I rarely ever listen to the sea of dreck that is Twin Cities FM radio programming).

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

[jcostello]

This is why people are just so darn interesting! See, for me, The Remembering is the only song on that album that I wouldn't change a note of!

We have very different feelings and opinions about that piece, and the great thing is that we're both right! Hooray for music!

:drummer:

I've got to agree with the Witch with the salt and pepper shakers, and not just because it's almost Halloween (most people seem to be celebrating it today/tonight). "The Remembering" has actually become my favorite piece on "Tales," and it just gets better with each listen. Perhaps a Witch Seasoner could save you from "The Remembering " depths of "Yours is No Disgrace," Scooty. Or maybe you don't have enough cayenne pepper, I don't know.

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

[jcostello]

I have my favorite Yes epics, but I am not prepared to deem any of the others the "worst".

Well, how long would it take you to prepare? We're a patient bunch.

Come on, there has to be ONE Yes epic that you like at least a little bit less than all the rest.

John Super Mega Crazed, Yet Patient, Yesfan

[YESOLA]

Well, I like Endless dream least on this list. So I voted for that.

[Close to Loch Ness]

That,that is. Mind drive. Endless dream.

I'm not that overblown with these. They all have bits that I like, but they are too dis-jointed imho.


Oh! I voted for That, that is

[kirklott]

I think epics need to be defined as side-long tracks (or close) - i.e. CTTE, Topo, Gates, etc.

Of those, The Ancient is completely unlistenable. That's why Rick quit, and Chris almost quit.

And I can't believe people voted "That That Is." Fantastic track. Sure the intro lyrics about a crack mom are kinda out of place, but otherwise the track is one of Yes' best.

[plodder]

I haven't heard them all so I can't really give an opinion.

[Ian B]

Of those, The Ancient is completely unlistenable. That's why Rick quit, and Chris almost quit.



What, even Steve's mesmerising acoustic guitar solo? I may just pass out on the spot with shock.....
:yikes:

[sirlespaul]

What, even Steve's mesmerising acoustic guitar solo? I may just pass out on the spot with shock.....
:yikes:

I LOVE The Ancient. The Steve Howe solo in it is AMAZING. To me, there is NOTHING wrong with Tales.

Hmmm, worst Yes epic. There aren't really I don't like, but I've never really liked Ritual that much. I have the REMASTERED "Tales" so I listen to the first 3 songs and then don't even bother putting on the next CD.

[sirlespaul]

The worst Yes song is "In the Presence Of". Awful. Magnification is the only Yes album I genuenly HATE.

[Olorin]

"Worst" is too strong a word for any of them. "Endless Dream" is the one I like the least.

[jcostello]

I think epics need to be defined as side-long tracks (or close) - i.e. CTTE, Topo, Gates, etc.

Of those, The Ancient is completely unlistenable. That's why Rick quit, and Chris almost quit.

And I can't believe people voted "That That Is." Fantastic track. Sure the intro lyrics about a crack mom are kinda out of place, but otherwise the track is one of Yes' best.

Nah, "The Ancient" isn't completely unlistenable. The piece of the song where Jon sings about shooting the lamb dead is good.

"That That Is" does have some good passages, to be sure, but the crack mom lyrics do lose it a few points, IMO.

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

[SonicDeath10]

I've actually warmed up to the Ancient over time...

[Rabin105]

Nah, "The Ancient" isn't completely unlistenable. The piece of the song where Jon sings about shooting the lamb dead is good.

"That That Is" does have some good passages, to be sure, but the crack mom lyrics do lose it a few points, IMO.

John Super Mega Crazed Yesfan

i haven;t heard the remembering yet but i i do think that that is is better than the anchient. now if ancient was say a 5 minute peice with steve doing his acoustic thing and jon singing i may change my opnion lol.

but in all honesty they are all great as seriously have you ever tried to write an epic lol

[Joe]

Sorry.........there's no such animal!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/joeykeyz/Music/linkyes.gif

[mrman214]

:There is no worst! BUt Machine Messiah is my least favorite. Trevor Horns vocals were a bit too choppy for my taste. Drama reminded me of a Chris Squire solo album.:BassPostIcon: Good album but not Yes.:headset:

[pianozach]

I've yet to vote, but when I do it will not be any of the first 12 songs on the list.

I do have issues with That, That Is, but mostly because I feel that dissolving (or fading) from one track to another does not an epic track make. It also makes the piece fairly impossible to perform live, at least in the configuration that the studio version is in.

The whole thing smacks of a cheap studio mixdown to give the impression of an epic. It's not really an epic. It's more of a "medley".

"Magician's Birthday" by Uriah Heep does this cross fading too. Although I love the work, the overlapping still bothers me.

I don't even mind linking separate ideas together without having them relate or reprise or intertwine - as long as they link. "Side Two" of Abbey Road qualifies, and the lads from Liverpool didn't even try to pretend it was an epic, even though the songs segue directly to one another, and there's recurring themes and reprises.

[happytheman]

"Worst" is too strong a word for any of them. "Endless Dream" is the one I like the least.
I concur. Never have figured out what all the fuss was about this one. First part of the song is very tight. The middle is a mess to say the least, and the ending goes on way too long.

[pianozach]

. . . and then there's Mind Drive, another "epic" that seems to be epic for its own sake.

I mean, breaking it down:

1. 0:00-2:00 A two minute ambient intro with keyboard pads support some guitar noodling.

2. 2:00-4:00 A two minute rock'n'rolly intro to the opening section (Ascension. . . ?). Great bass guitar sound.

3. 4:00-5:00 A one minute song using the previous section as a springboard.

4. 5:00-8:30 "Dancing/Mind Drive" song. Lightweight verses & heavyweight choruses.

5. 8:30-9:20 Another intro, this time with a moody Spanish flavor, with the bass and keys sneaking in.

6. 9:20-10:30 Jon sings "So Close" for a minute over the backing tracks that are basically a continuation of the previous intro.

7. 10:30-11:00 This section is pretty much an "outro" to the previous song, winding down to the next section.

8. 11:00-11:20 A short instrumental link with plucked guitar and Brufordesque high hat work from White.

9. 11:20-12:20 Wakeman and Howe solo over the previous riff.

10. 12:20-13:45 Reprise of "Dancing/Mind Drive". The second time through the chorus is varied by giving it an acoustic piano and guitar setting.

11. 13:45-17:20 Return to the "Ascension" bass guitar riff intro with minor variations, mostly guitar noodles. The intro is half as long as the original. Vocals return briefly, then another lengthy proggy instrumental, complete with a retro moog.

12. 17:20-end A new more upbeat instrumental kicks in, reminiscent of "The Remembering". The ending is interesting and clever, sort of ramping down and wandering off in a completely different direction.

I like it. Jon, Wakey, Fish, Howe and White all sound great (although White never really has a chance to "shine"), and there's really not much filler at all (maybe around the 3 to 4 minute mark they seem to be obsessed with that rocky intro riff . . . ). Structurally, the song formula is quite good. The production quality is great. Definitely NOT their "worst."

[pianozach]

I think I'll have to go with "That, That Is", although Homeworld is a close second.

I'm pretty damn impressed with all the rest of them.

[qoquaq]

I choose 'Machine Messiah' because it's Yeggles..not Yes

Robin

[Mind Driver]

I choose 'Machine Messiah' because it's Yeggles..not Yes

Robin

I'm with you.

[Sunhillow_]

That's a hard task!!! I thought of Endless Dream because it sounds like a pale copy of Yes biggest works. but is a nice song anyway.

[ctask]

After much consideration (and apologies to Master Howe) I had to choose The Ancient. While it has some excellent musical themes in it, there is so much padding that is just plain unpleasant - I find it almost unlistenable.

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/twocents.gif

[Altres]

The Ancient is Yes totally chimping out, and I love them all the more for it. Tales wouldn't be Tales without it and it is a wonderous, envigorating, bright and golden thing, carved into the coarsest of granite.

http://www.nfte.org/yesworld/gallery/images/albums/Tales.jpg

Brian

[pianozach]

The Ancient is Yes totally chimping out, and I love them all the more for it. Tales wouldn't be Tales without it and it is a wonderous, envigorating, bright and golden thing, carved into the coarsest of granite.

http://www.nfte.org/yesworld/gallery/images/albums/Tales.jpg

Brian

The Ancient is lovable for being the awkward avant garde experimental tone poem journey that it is.

I suggest surrendering to it - listen with welcoming arms and open/empty mind.

Man, no one can noodle around effortlessly like Yes, not even Emerson or Garcia.

It works on such a primieval level that it's over most folks' heads, though . . . It's so far out, it's in . . . It's so expansive it's compact . . . It's so far behind, it's out in front.

I'm not even sure that the bandmembers themselves, especially Wakeman, realize the 'one step beyond' that they took with this song mural.

:eyewobble

[mike on the goldie]

I was a bit puzzled by some of the earlier assertions on this thread that Yes is a Christian group. I was always under the impression that Anderson and others (except Wakeman) were followers of Eastern religions, thus their vegetarianism, and that "Awaken" was about spiritual enlightenment not a parable of Jesus. Am I wrong about all this? Wasn't Jon Anderson a follower of someone known as the "Divine Mother"? I've also read that CTTE was based on Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha, a novel about the life of Buddha. "Wondrous Stories" sounds like it could be vaguely Christian in theme, but I haven't had that impression of any other Yessong I've heard to date.

[mike on the goldie]

Here's what Wikipedia says about the meaning of CTTE: "According to the band's official website, Yesworld (http://www.yesworld.com/), the song is inspired by Hermann Hesse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Hesse)'s book Siddhartha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhartha_%28book%29), an explanation which can cast the cryptic and mysterious lyrics in a new light, tracking the awakening of Hesse's character "close to the edge" of a river (and, symbolically, of the serial lifetimes of his soul) where he experiences a spiritual awakening."

[mike on the goldie]

Also isn't it well known that Tales was based on Shastric scriptures?

[astral_stardust]

I like the theory about CTTE and acid tabs taken from the edge of the sheet. I think there was a lot more to the song than that, but it's still a fun theory.

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=6244

[mike on the goldie]

Now that sounds more like the Yes I know and love!

[Yes.2]

i think that if people dosed on acid more in the present, the meaning of the specific lyrics "close to the edge, down by the corner", would be more wider known. I have taken a fair share of trips with LSD. i once got a hold of a sheet of 100 blotters/tabs of acid. this particular sheet of acid was not an ordinary sheet of acid, it was a corner sheet. what i mean is this chunk of 100 tabs was taken from a sheet that had somewhere around 2200 tabs/blotters in it. (thats alot of acid folks) now when this particular sheet of 2200 was being dryed after it had been dipped and soaked with LSD, it was layed down flat. because it was layed down flat to dry, the very edges and especially the very corners of the sheet are the last to dry. because the edges of the sheet dry last, the very edges are extremely strong. so since i had the corner sheet of 100 tiny squares out of a larger sheet that was 2200 tiny squares, the two sides that made up the corner of the larger 2200 squares were soaked with acid. if you have ever seen how the cover of close to the edge is light green on the top and dark on the bottom, it looks just like a tab/blotter of acid that has been taken from the very edge of a large sheet of acid that was layed flat to dry. the lighter shade representing the edge of the sheet that contains aloooot of acid. however the album cover is about a square foot, and tab/blotter of acid is about a square centimetre. if you ever come across a tab/blotter of acid that is shaded like the album cover or your told that it is a tab taken from close to the edge, down by the corner of the sheet that will definitly "take away the plain in which you move and choose the course your ruling". the tab will make you go waaaaay up at points then get down at others, thats the ways lsd trips pan out. if you were to chart how high you were on a graph it would go up and down through out the course of the trip. hence the lines "i get up, i get down". there are many other connections ive made but i think you should experiment with acid and crack the mystery to many lyrics that were written in that era.

[luckeydoug1]

I am really surprised at the number of votes That That Is has received. This song is one of my top ten favorite Yes songs. The guitar parts are awesome, the harmonies are both beautiful as well as haunting (Chris gives us some of his best backing vocals ever) and the song exudes energy throughout. I really don't find this epic any more 'stapled together' as some have said, than many of the other epics.

Not only do I love the music, but I also am impressed with Jon's attempt at being in touch with reality for a change and tackling this subject. No mysticism here. These lyrics are definitely 'in your face' and could easily be straight from the 6:00 news:

That, That Is
Anderson/Howe/Squire/White

1. Togetherness (Howe)

(Instrumental)

2. Crossfire (Anderson/Squire )

Julie's sick and tired of her job n' all the reasons lately
She took it out on God and laid her soul to hell and let the baby die
Julie's child was born without a need or a reason for being
She took it as a message from a real and a distant life

Shirley gets to help her with the child though she's strung out on crack time
Shirley never knew what it was to be held in real love
Together getting high to get to mess up their night
Anything to get up so they're losing their mind
Just to get high, breaking out from this life, gotta get them a drug to get higher

Julie gets to walking out and drags the child, says "come on"
How we'll walk in the dark of the morning
Cars screaming round the corner, drugged to heaven, guns are loaded, locked in vengeance

Who shoots the child?

Watching in the ghetto is the spine and the cruel of the gang life
Sign language of the get go you get in the gang life
Fear the only law, fear is all we hear about,
Feed us in the raw, fear is all we fear about
Listen, get up, quickly get up, get up
It's the answer to punishment given you

Don't give us reasons,
Caught in the crossfire dying
God give us reasons,
Don't give a reason, God give a reason
Why lay dead a child's life?


3. The Giving Things (Anderson/Howe)

That talk is just a worry and a worry in a man
That life is just a worrying and getting in a mess
That deal is just awakening his spirit to be giving him
The pleasure of the giving things within
This day is of a meeting of the manner to be borne
And like a ship you come safely to the shore of love eternal


4. That Is (Anderson)

That talk is just a worry and a worry in a man
That life is just a worrying and getting in a mess
That deal is just awakening his spirit to be giving him
The pleasure of the giving things within

That word is in it, that talk is in it
This day is of a meeting of the manner to be borne
And like a ship you come safely to the shore of love eternal

That beat is of the wanting of the where you're going
That street talk is the basis of the push and shove
They never told you that you have the right
The spirit of the angel, angels sing "Shaava, shava shava-Shaava"

They be waiting for you, they be asking for you
We depending on you, we depending on your healing of the structure centre
Until you reach and touch your own redemption

They never give you a reason, they never give you a reason
They never give you a, give you a, give you a, give you a reason


5. All In All (Anderson/White)

All in all the wisdom call, you shall be young, you shall be free
Watching for the signals that some easily
Take it as a point of love, a reference place to where you are
Every step a step to set you free

All for the sake and the calling of light
Ask as you give, as you measure in time

All in all this will to give, this sacrament, this need to live
Take it a step to bring love easily
All in all the wisdom call, you shall be young, you shall be free
Waiting for the waiting to be free

Talk is the easy send, everyone heard
Ask as you seek the clear, ask and you can

This play is of a myriad of conscience sitting
This day is of a special way of love relating
This sight is in it, this way is in it, the dream is of the positive to make you
Wonder
How did heaven begin?
This time is in it, this thought is in it, this light is in it,
When you see, you get it

All in all the wisdom call, you shall be young, you shall be free
Take it as it comes so easily

We'll be there beside the sign, this wherewithal, this will to be,
Bringing all the love that's meant to be
All in all we shall be young, we shall be free, we shall be there
All in all this time is meant to be


6. How Did Heaven Begin (Anderson/Howe/White)

These days are just a worry to the children of the world
These days are just a worry to the children of the world
How did heaven begin?
How did heaven begin?


7. Agree To Agree (Anderson/Squire)

Don't imagine any way, so any fool can take away the drugs and the pressure
Asking for the level where a world divides its answers
To the gang lords of evil life, (they) can't show you how
Look upon this life as just a picture you are painting
There is a reason for this being
Look upon this place as just a part of all that is
It is a spiritual part of being

Live within the power, you can be the strength it is
Walk among the living, you can be the strength it is
To give, to live, this hope, comes through,
It takes the trust to agree this agreement
Live for the breaking free
Live for the breaking freedom
Just let it come through come through

OK, the song has just ended.... What a beautiful, powerful epic it is for me!

[orpheus]

I'd have to say,"The Ancient" Doesn't even sound like Yes. I like the rest of Tales but can never get through TA

[pianozach]

I am really surprised at the number of votes That That Is has received. This song is one of my top ten favorite Yes songs. The guitar parts are awesome, the harmonies are both beautiful as well as haunting (Chris gives us some of his best backing vocals ever) and the song exudes energy throughout. I really don't find this epic any more 'stapled together' as some have said, than many of the other epics.

Not only do I love the music, but I also am impressed with Jon's attempt at being in touch with reality for a change and tackling this subject. No mysticism here. These lyrics are definitely 'in your face' and could easily be straight from the 6:00 news:


OK, the song has just ended.... What a beautiful, powerful epic it is for me!

Such is the problem of asking framed questions such as "what is the 'worst' Yes epic.

Even if you rate them #'s 1-20, it is unfair to call #20 the 'worst'. 'Least favorite' is probably the most polite way of putting it . . .

It's tough to rank the epics, and in order to rank them some of us turn to musical framework dissection or performance nitpicking or any number of other factors to decide what should never be considered in the first place.

Speaking of 'framing' a question, I was called yesterday afternoon by a survey company. After a few preliminatry questions, the 'surveyor' got to the point. They asked how I felt about Proposition 'B', and I indicated that I had heard conflicting things about it and had yet to make a decision. The questioner started another question by explaining that supporting Prop B would turn our community into another San Fernando Valley, and is that what I would be supporting?"

My answer was that "This call is over", at which point I hung up.

How does this relate?

By answering a 'framed' a question, you may actually be saying something that you don't mean.

For instance, let's say that I love brownies, chococolate sundaes and banana splits. If I'm asked which is the 'worst' desert, I'll use some sort of rationale to rate them #1, #2 and #3, making #3 the 'worst' in effect, although it doesn't mean that I don't like #3.

Then someone else will come along and say that #3 is their favorite and they don't like the rationale I used to place it in the 'worst' category.

Just sayin'.

[cinderella]

I'd have to say,"The Ancient" Doesn't even sound like Yes. I like the rest of Tales but can never get through TA

I love the last 6 minutes especially Leaves Of Green.

[Lifeseeker66]

First I'll start by saying some of these songs aren't even epics and should be removed from the list. To me, an epic should be say, fifteen minutes or longer, as opposed to ST, and HOTS, AYAI, etc.... which are middle-level songs. To me, the real epics are the CTTE's, all of TFTO, GOD, Awaken, etc... I was thinking of cutting off at fifteen minutes or longer, but realized too many of the songs listed would be eliminated, so I made it at ten minutes. Using this criteria, I chose Machine Messiah, not because it's a bad song, but because it was my least favorite of the others listed, admittedly probably because Jon didn't sing on it.

[mageestout]

THE ANCIENT - hands down

I love just about everything YES does. Even some tracks that just "don't do it" for me still get respect from me due to creativity, musicianship, the adventure of the track - and even with THE ANCIENT there are a few good bits (a la LEAVES OF GREEN). But on a whole it is a mess.

I for one cannot take Steve jerking around on that pedal steel. Steve who is such a master at many string instruments sounds like he doesn't know what he's playing; that section is painful to listen to (albiet I am no fan of the track GOING FOR THE ONE). Pedal steel can be very tastefully done, and I applaud YES for always trying something new but when the day is done THE ANCIENT needed more time or needed to be put aside.

[rembutok]

My immediate response is Awaken.

Now I know most don't agree, but this song is trotted out almost every tour and to be honest, I am not nuts about the live version. I liked it on GFTO but performed live it just seems interminable. Time seems to run backwards for me during the harp bit. It does have its moments--love howe in the beginning. But all in all, this is one opus that I could do without.

[TOBYSGRAPHICGOKART]

My immediate response is Awaken.

Now I know most don't agree, but this song is trotted out almost every tour and to be honest, I am not nuts about the live version. I liked it on GFTO but performed live it just seems interminable. Time seems to run backwards for me during the harp bit. It does have its moments--love howe in the beginning. But all in all, this is one opus that I could do without.

For me it's the other way around.I've always thought the various live versions of Awaken actually eclipse the GFTO studio cut (great though that is).
I was listening to the Keys version the other day.Just awesome.

My least favourite Yes epic? That,That Is. Musically it's OK in places,but I just don't like the lyrics at all.

[relayeire]

For me it's the other way around.I've always thought the various live versions of Awaken actually eclipse the GFTO studio cut (great though that is).
I was listening to the Keys version the other day.Just awesome.

My least favourite Yes epic? That,That Is. Musically it's OK in places,but I just don't like the lyrics at all.

I concur on the second point but not the first... there are some parts in the original Awaken that Howe seemingly has never had the dexterity to produce live... it is a great live song, however... except on KTA...

T, TI - I just don't know what they were doing there... not sure they did either...

[Mind Driver]

AWAKEN IS A MASTERPIECE!

[Joe]

There is none!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/joeykeyz/Music/linkyes.gif

[olias76]

There is no "worst" in YES Music

[Tucson Bass Player]

My immediate response is Awaken.

Now I know most don't agree, but this song is trotted out almost every tour and to be honest, I am not nuts about the live version. I liked it on GFTO but performed live it just seems interminable. Time seems to run backwards for me during the harp bit. It does have its moments--love howe in the beginning. But all in all, this is one opus that I could do without.

Wow, just shows you that music is a very personal thing. I have seen dozens of shows and this is the one. Really the one! I took non YES fan family members to a show and it was they only song that really "Got Them". One of my daughters said "Dad, I think we were all levitating there" That is YES music. One of my all time favorites.

[YYY]

AWAKEN...someone must be insane in the membrane...

I like that quote by your kid...I had a friend (who was a luke warm fan and had never seen them live) say to me after AWAKEN "Wow I was definately inside the vortex". Now that is YES music.

I agree with Endless Dream and Machine Messiah...
But I don't agree with That, That Is...
I really feel that this is a very underated yet well conceived and executed epic. Granted at first I wasn't impressed...but at the time I hadn't listened to much YES since Tormato on a regular basis. But gradually it hit me.

That,That Is is quite good.
Steve's acoustic is gorgeous.
The odd timing into Jon's signature chanting (ala Olias) is perfect.
The coherent lyrics might actually leave some to question this song. In fact this is probably what turned me off at first but listening to the music and feeling this song build towards Jons heavenly crescendo and the funky section convinced me otherwise. Agreed it's not a well oiled machine as AWAKEN but the rockin groove at the end and the lyrics are almost as inspiring.

"Live for the Breaking Freedom"

[Scooty]

AWAKEN...someone must be insane in the membrane...

I like that quote by your kid...I had a friend (who was a luke warm fan and had never seen them live) say to me after AWAKEN "Wow I was definately inside the vortex". Now that is YES music.

I agree with Endless Dream and Machine Messiah...
But I don't agree with That, That Is...
I really feel that this is a very underated yet well conceived and executed epic. Granted at first I wasn't impressed...but at the time I hadn't listened to much YES since Tormato on a regular basis. But gradually it hit me.

That,That Is is quite good.
Steve's acoustic is gorgeous.
The odd timing into Jon's signature chanting (ala Olias) is perfect.
The coherent lyrics might actually leave some to question this song. In fact this is probably what turned me off at first but listening to the music and feeling this song build towards Jons heavenly crescendo and the funky section convinced me otherwise. Agreed it's not a well oiled machine as AWAKEN but the rockin groove at the end and the lyrics are almost as inspiring.

"Live for the Breaking Freedom"

:appl[1]:
That, That Is..from the first listen I was knocked out!

[ZEN]

Has to be Endless Scream - it seems like a case of Rabin trying to compose in the traditional Yes vein - but failing - it really is 'Twee'.

All the other tracks in the vote list are fine!

[GLee2112]

That, That Is is brutal.

[Dragonfly]

That, That Is is brutal.

The only problem I've had with "That, That Is", (which i like a lot more than "Mind Drive") is the lyrics. I think that's the main reason others don't like it. They tend to give it short shrift because they don't want to hear about "Let[ting] the baby die" and idiots like "Julie".

If you listen to the music you'll find more accoustic guitar and piano work; always a plus with yesmusic IMO.

Dragonfly :fly:

[maninthemoon]

The only problem I've had with "That, That Is", (which i like a lot more than "Mind Drive") is the lyrics. I think that's the main reason others don't like it. They tend to give it short shrift because they don't want to hear about "Let[ting] the baby die" and idiots like "Julie".

If you listen to the music you'll find more accoustic guitar and piano work; always a plus with yesmusic IMO.

Dragonfly :fly:
I agree 1000%

[yeskat]

It's always hard to pick the "worst" of YES. There are so many times when songs have grown on me. I may have hated them when I first heard them, but days, months, even years later I suddenly "get it". As someone else said, there's always something in every on of their songs that's great! :note:

[Mind Driver]

It's always hard to pick the "worst" of YES. There are so many times when songs have grown on me. I may have hated them when I first heard them, but days, months, even years later I suddenly "get it". As someone else said, there's always something in every on of their songs that's great! :note:

Please listen to "Into the Lens" and come back and tell me this again.

"I am a camera??????"

[rememberer]

Oh, my. This is awful. It looks as if 89 people thought they were voting for the best Yes epic.

The Remembering 25 7.35%
That, That Is 64 18.82%

I demand a recount!

[Mind Driver]

Oh, my. This is awful. It looks as if 89 people thought they were voting for the best Yes epic.

The Remembering 25 7.35%
That, That Is 64 18.82%

I demand a recount!

I'm with you.........

[somissound]

That, That Is is brutal.

It is not worthy of being called "The Worst", but it is my least favorite too...

The bass sound???!
Edits, or fade ins and outs???
Lyrics???

It just sounds odd compared to the keys 2 studio tracks...imo...The drums and guitars sound good though... It is one of very few Yes songs I skip.:aaa[1]:

Just proof they acually are musicly human ;)

[Sharp on Attack]

Mind Drive : Too long and patchy !

[Mind Driver]

Mind Drive : Too long and patchy !

The first epic they have written in years, and you say it is too long and patchy?

Egads, my man.......it was one of the highlights of the 35th Anniversary tour.

[jcostello]

Mind Drive : Too long and patchy !

It's neither too long nor patchy for me, thank you. I love it! I'll eat the spam!

John SuperMegaCrazed Yesfan

[jcostello]

I've yet to vote, but when I do it will not be any of the first 12 songs on the list.

I do have issues with That, That Is, but mostly because I feel that dissolving (or fading) from one track to another does not an epic track make. It also makes the piece fairly impossible to perform live, at least in the configuration that the studio version is in.

The whole thing smacks of a cheap studio mixdown to give the impression of an epic. It's not really an epic. It's more of a "medley".

"Magician's Birthday" by Uriah Heep does this cross fading too. Although I love the work, the overlapping still bothers me.

I don't even mind linking separate ideas together without having them relate or reprise or intertwine - as long as they link. "Side Two" of Abbey Road qualifies, and the lads from Liverpool didn't even try to pretend it was an epic, even though the songs segue directly to one another, and there's recurring themes and reprises.

Other than "July Morning" (my birthday is in July, so maybe that's why I don't object to it), Uriah Heep bothers me. Poor attempt to replicate Deep Purple and add "cosmicness" to it.

John SuperMegaCrazed Yesfan