Chris & Trevor

[nrholland]

I'm just looking for opinions on this subject. It's a rather "touchy" subject. I'm not asking to get anyone upset or anything. I'm just simply curious.

Chris is definately my favourite bass player. His style is my favourite, just as Steve's style is my favourite on guitar. Maybe that's why Yes is my favourite group.

However, I've wondered for many years, especially since I saw the "Hold On" video on MTV many moons ago (the same one from the 9012Live DVD) and the "Live Will Find A Way" video, as well as the Yesyears and Union DVDs, I noticed that Trevor Rabin and Chris seem to really enjoy playing with one another. They interact with each other a lot on stage. In case you haven't seen it on the Union DVD, Chris brings out the chair for Trevor to play his solo, wipes it down and the two shake hands (or something like that). I saw them on this tour in Orlando. I can't remember if Chris did the "chair act" there or not.

The question I'm wondering is (You may already know what I'm talking about) is the interaction between Chris and Trevor simply because they are friends and enjoy playing with one another, or could there be more than that?

I seriously doubt there is any more to it. After all, Chris tries to interact with Steve on occasion. Chris also interacted quite a bit with Rick on the Union DVD, especially while Rick was out in the audience with his mini-keyboard during OOALH.

I know both men are married. I also know that everyone is entitled to live the way they want. They are also entitled to their own privacy. What I'm wondering is really none of my business, of course. I was just curious.

My apologies if I upset anyone.

Either way, Chris is my favourite player period!!

[About The Round]

Chris plays bass and sings and Trevor makes soundtracks as far as I'm concerned!

[cinderella]

I know I've read different interviews with Trevor after he left Yes, and he'd say he had just seen Chris, and they had gone out to dinner at different times. So I think they were/are friends. But I could be wrong.

At the time they were in the band together, they really had a great time on stage. It was fun to watch them. Trevor really added a breath of fresh air to Yes (for a short time) that's for sure.

[smatt]

AFAIK, they remain fast friends. Seems they got on very well a few months back at the Trevor Horn Tribute.

Now, I don't know what nrholland was alluding to , but I think I can guess :thinking:

I'd say absolutely not :nono:

[nrholland]

AFAIK, they remain fast friends. Seems they got on very well a few months back at the Trevor Horn Tribute.

Now, I don't know what nrholland was alluding to , but I think I can guess :thinking:

I'd say absolutely not :nono:


You're probably right. It's simply Chris' way of having a good time on stage. Nothing wrong with that. I used to play a bit of bass in band. You "feed" off one another by playing next to them or right across from them.

[glovess]

Maybe someday will see Trevor and Chris make music together , that would be nice.

[yarstruly]

If you are implying what I think, then this may be aone of the most ridiculous posts ever.....

[nrholland]

If you are implying what I think, then this may be aone of the most ridiculous posts ever.....


I'll be the first to admit that this post is ridiculous. I just wanted to assure myself from the responses of you Yes fans (of which I am one and have been one for almost 25 years) that my curiosity was way out there. I think by your comments that that has been proven. I think this subject can close on this thread and also in my head.

P.S. Sure looking foward to another "classic" Yes album (cd or whatever you want to call it) that I know these guys are capable of if they work together. I can just hear Chris' bass thundering. What a sound!!

YARSTRULY: I dated a girl in Conyers about 17 years ago.

[The Whale]

Wow! I don't know what to say or type except NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!
thats right up there with haveing a case of the mondays! You just don't say it.

what is Scooty going to say about this post?

[Steve St Thomas]

Maybe someday will see Trevor and Chris make music together , that would be nice.

That's something I would truly like to see.

[JaneEyre]

No, I do not think Trevor especially enjoys Chris' tight pants.

[Steve St Thomas]

As far as the ''subject'' of this thread, I can't really comment. :)

But I'm glad the person at least brought up how much fun Squire & Rabin seemed to enjoy on stage together, and in video. And I really miss that in YES. That much interaction happening on stage between the players, and that certainly stopped when Rabin & Squire parted company. I see it nowhere in Keys To Ascension or Symphonic, and you can say to me the music is more difficult all you like.

I know in Symphonic there is a moment that Squire walks over to Howe for some interaction, seeing as how they are virtually playing the same ''part'' on their instruments (a section of 'Gates of Delirium' possibly?), and Howe looks at Squire like he's just invaded his sanctuary. There is just nothing there. If Howe was playing a solo, I could see the impossibility of interaction, but this one section of the song was not particularly hard to play, which is why Squire found it very easy to start walking around to go visit the rest of the band. I honestly got such a distaste for Steve Howe from this one DVD, that I haven't really liked him since. Not him as a player, but him as a stage personality/ persona.

And I didn't see that happening once with Squire & Rabin. Which is why for me the inclusion of Billy Sherwood in some capacity during UNION was a little upsetting, because I felt I could already see the Squire & Rabin partnership dissolving. TALK, and the two Squire penned songs from that album, just said even more that that was possibly true.

And then I hear what Squire does in CONSPIRACY, and I'm 'like', what the hell is going on here? I'm not a huge Sherwood fan, but THE UNKNOWN is about 10 times better than the last 9 years of studio related YES music I've heard. And I'm actually starting to get pissed off at my mostest, favouritest, member of YES, Chris Squire. He's the man, no matter what anyone says about Anderson's vision, Howe's dexterity, or Wakeman's virtuoso talents, that I have always felt was the musical talent and backbone of YES. Right from the beginning of my buying their albums. The guy just stands out to me so much over the others, and apparently, Trevor Horn is in agreeance with me. But all I have to do is listen to FISH OUT OF WATER and know even without guitars, that album is one of the best YES albums released. And it's really only Squire behind it. That album is as good as anything he released with the band, and on a lot of occasions, better than things they released as a band. I have always felt that YES's truly gifted person in a musical or artistic sense was Squire.

And my opinion of Trevor Rabin hasn't changed since 1983. I think he is phenomenally talented, and I'm not sure what YES albums other people have, that weren't doing what he accomplished in TALK's Endless Dream. I heard him doing 'progressive' things with YES right back to CHANGES, or I'M RUNNING, and I have to honestly sit there and wonder why people are so against this guy, because he was doing some incredible stuff with YES. How can someone not like FINAL EYES? I just don't get it. Maybe I have a different album than other people, but I honestly would listen to 4 minutes of LOVE WILL FIND A WAY, than listen to the 15 minutes it takes to get through AWAKEN, which is basically 3 repeated ideas for 5 minutes each. I could go to a jazz show and hear the same thing done. That's not how I feel about AND YOU AND I, SIBERIAN KHATRU, HEART OF THE SUNRISE, MACHINE MESSIAH, CLOSE TO THE EDGE, SOUND CHASER, GATES OF DELIRIUM. They could be 45 minutes each, I wouldn't care, because I think there's so much greatness in any one of those tracks, that just doesn't happen over every YES album. Especially GOING FOR THE ONE, TOPOGRAPHIC, TORMATO, KEY STUDIO, THE LADDER, MAGNIFICATION.

It's frustrating being a YES fan. Because I have every YES album that was ever released. I enjoy most of them to different degrees, and RELAYER, DRAMA, TIME AND A WORD, THE YES ALBUM, CLOSE TO THE EDGE, and parts of FRAGILE are just albums I love to pieces. But I honestly don't think Rabin was a bad choice. I think he's fantastically talented, and his soundtrack work should say to CLASSIC YES purists, that this guy is mega talented. I can actually hear YES performing Rabin's soundtrack work, and the CLASSIC purist be pleased with the results, because he is a great orchestral arranger. I wish some people(including Anderson and Howe ;)) had just given him half a chance. :(

Sorry, I've gone off on a rant. I don't think Rabin & Squire were having 'relations', but damn do I miss their 'relationship', because it looked like they were having fun, before they were slightly pressured to call it YES, it looked like CINEMA was going to show just how talented Squire is, and pair him with a person that had a gift for production, choruses and great hooks. It actually makes me ache thinking what CINEMA might have been, and part of me thinks even with 90125's success, there was a portion of Squire's enthusiasm for the project that went out the window as soon as it became YES. He saw it when Trevor Horn and Geoff Downes were in the band, and fan reaction, and I don't care what anyone says, Horn is a phenomenal producer, Downes is a great keyboard WRITER, and DRAMA is a great album. There is nothing that Howe does on DRAMA that he wasn't starting to do on TORMATO and continued on to do in ASIA.

I miss Rabin and Squire, and I wonder where the Squire that now contributes to CONSPIRACY went to during 1988 through 1999. Because songs like NEW WORLD should be on YES albums, but you get something like THAT, THAT IS, which to me honestly doesn't pick up until the last 5 minutes of the song. All 20 minutes of it. Howes contribution SKATES I think is beautiful, and I can hear what could have been built around that, but what I got instead was a very long version of the melody from XTC's Snowman (1982 English Settlement) and Rick Wakeman once again playing some of the most obnoxious sounding keyboards ever bought????? I just don't understand this band anymore, so I'm not sure what to think about who's in it and who's not. But I miss Rabin & Squire.

[JaneEyre]

Crikey. Your post is so good, Steve, there's nothing left to say! I'll just go with, "I agree with everything you've written."

[yarstruly]

I'll be the first to admit that this post is ridiculous. I just wanted to assure myself from the responses of you Yes fans (of which I am one and have been one for almost 25 years) that my curiosity was way out there. I think by your comments that that has been proven. I think this subject can close on this thread and also in my head.

P.S. Sure looking foward to another "classic" Yes album (cd or whatever you want to call it) that I know these guys are capable of if they work together. I can just hear Chris' bass thundering. What a sound!!

YARSTRULY: I dated a girl in Conyers about 17 years ago.

Well I didn't move there until 1992, so I probaly don't know her ;)

[Steve St Thomas]

Crikey. Your post is so good, Steve, there's nothing left to say! I'll just go with, "I agree with everything you've written."


Thanks JaneEyre :drmmr:

[FieldsOfGreen]

Crikey. Your post is so good, Steve, there's nothing left to say! I'll just go with, "I agree with everything you've written."

Same here. The way Steve describes things is very close to what I'm feeling about all of this.

Hoping for the return of Rabin in the fold, and a new album that wouldn't be only a 'Union' but a 'Synergy' (or a 'Syn-ergy'...;)?).

[Timmo]

Good lord, how did I miss this thread?

Chris and Trevor "together?"

I mean, ya never know, but I think NOT!

:lmao:

Trevor seemed to get on well with everyone in the band. I think he's a wonderfully gregarious guy, and a fantastic musician.

[Steve St Thomas]

Same here. The way Steve describes things is very close to what I'm feeling about all of this.

Hoping for the return of Rabin in the fold, and a new album that wouldn't be only a 'Union' but a 'Synergy' (or a 'Syn-ergy'...;)?).

Thanks Fields.

I honestly just wish Rabin, Squire, White (and even Kaye) would just do something together again. Forget calling it Yes, they don't even have to call it Cinematic or Theatre or anything. I would be happy right now with the Cinema version of 90125, just so I could hear what could have been. Sounds nostalgic I know, but I know I hear Rabin & Squire being a great partnership. I hear it in the songs. I heard it in Lift Me Up and Real Love, and if Squire can come up with an album like Fish Out Of Water without the others, can put that much into Conspiracy, then I want to see him paired back up again with someone just as talented (in different ways). I honestly think Rabin & Squire were a match made in heaven.

[cinderella]

Great post Steve! Check your rep. :D


Chris and Trevor "together?"

I mean, ya never know, but I think NOT!

:lmao:



Right ya never know.
And yeah, I think Chris and Trevor would make beautiful music together.

Well.......you know what I mean. Sheeesh!

Get your minds out of the gutter.

[wolfhound]

I know in Symphonic there is a moment that Squire walks over to Howe for some interaction, seeing as how they are virtually playing the same ''part'' on their instruments (a section of 'Gates of Delirium' possibly?), and Howe looks at Squire like he's just invaded his sanctuary. There is just nothing there. If Howe was playing a solo, I could see the impossibility of interaction, but this one section of the song was not particularly hard to play, which is why Squire found it very easy to start walking around to go visit the rest of the band. I honestly got such a distaste for Steve Howe from this one DVD, that I haven't really liked him since. Not him as a player, but him as a stage personality/ persona.
I think people can misunderstand Steve Howe. If you notice, his demeanor is different during most of that Symphonic concert. He is "laying low" throughout, so to speak. I believe he's allowing others (the orchestra and Tom Brislin) to stand out. He plays softer on so many parts. He left out an audacious guitar part on "Gates" in favor of keeping the song tight.

Personally, I would have said, "Steve Howe! Screw everything else and go for it!". But he was probably right. As soon as I noticed that one omission in particular, then I thought it was obvious that he was yielding. Of course, Steve still throws in some awesome parts on guitar, but only when it doesn't risk overshadowing the others.

It seems that Chris thought he'd found a part in the song where he and Steve didn't need to be so concerned and could ham it up. But I think I understand the discipline that Steven was heavily into during that performance. Frankly, there are times when a bass player can allow him/herself to feel an easy flow while performing. A lead guitarist knows that every note he/she hits will direct attention away from everyone and everything else.

I really believe Steve Howe's reactions and performance on stage are directly connected to the incredible way he listens to the other musicians and does not wish to stomp on their work. He places such a high priority on this.

Just my two cents.

[yarstruly]

I think people can misunderstand Steve Howe. If you notice, his demeanor is different during most of that Symphonic concert. He is "laying low" throughout, so to speak. I believe he's allowing others (the orchestra and Tom Brislin) to stand out. He plays softer on so many parts. He left out an audacious guitar part on "Gates" in favor of keeping the song tight.

Personally, I would have said, "Steve Howe! Screw everything else and go for it!". But he was probably right. As soon as I noticed that one omission in particular, then I thought it was obvious that he was yielding. Of course, Steve still throws in some awesome parts on guitar, but only when it doesn't risk overshadowing the others.

It seems that Chris thought he'd found a part in the song where he and Steve didn't need to be so concerned and could ham it up. But I think I understand the discipline that Steven was heavily into during that performance. Frankly, there are times when a bass player can allow him/herself to feel an easy flow while performing. A lead guitarist knows that every note he/she hits will direct attention away from everyone and everything else.

I really believe Steve Howe's reactions and performance on stage are directly connected to the incredible way he listens to the other musicians and does not wish to stomp on their work. He places such a high priority on this.

Just my two cents.

Awesome point of view....as a lead guitarist myself, I know exactly what you are talking about!

[cinderella]

I really believe Steve Howe's reactions and performance on stage are directly connected to the incredible way he listens to the other musicians...


Steve is very serious about his playing. I can only imagine how much concentration it takes to play that well. All the stage antics have just never been his thing. Which is fine with me.

[Timmo]

Steve's brilliance as a guitar player is just as much a function of what he DOESN'T play as what he does.

Tasteful restraint.

[The Whale]

they do look good to gether!!!

[Steve St Thomas]

I think people can misunderstand Steve Howe. If you notice, his demeanor is different during most of that Symphonic concert. He is "laying low" throughout, so to speak. I believe he's allowing others (the orchestra and Tom Brislin) to stand out. He plays softer on so many parts. He left out an audacious guitar part on "Gates" in favor of keeping the song tight.

Personally, I would have said, "Steve Howe! Screw everything else and go for it!". But he was probably right. As soon as I noticed that one omission in particular, then I thought it was obvious that he was yielding. Of course, Steve still throws in some awesome parts on guitar, but only when it doesn't risk overshadowing the others.

It seems that Chris thought he'd found a part in the song where he and Steve didn't need to be so concerned and could ham it up. But I think I understand the discipline that Steven was heavily into during that performance. Frankly, there are times when a bass player can allow him/herself to feel an easy flow while performing. A lead guitarist knows that every note he/she hits will direct attention away from everyone and everything else.

I really believe Steve Howe's reactions and performance on stage are directly connected to the incredible way he listens to the other musicians and does not wish to stomp on their work. He places such a high priority on this.

Just my two cents.

A well spent 2 cents.

Very good reply Wolfhound, and I agree with everything you've posted from that perspective. I do understand that it requires concentration, and another problem I had with Howe's performance in Symphonic was his guitar sound. It had no fire or grit to it whatsoever. That's down to how he chose to play it and perform it as well, and maybe he was going for a different dynamic. At the same time, I felt the string orchestrations that were done for MAGNIFICATION were better than those done for older material, and I actually would have rather heard MAGNIFICATION or more of it performed. But that's neither here nor there.

A lot of my distaste for Howe came from Symphonic and the 'concentration'. But a good portion of it also comes from his comments, his attitudes, and his history of saying certain things that really do him no great service. And a couple of those things tend to be about other people who have performed guitar duties in Yes while he's in the band or not. And there were certain comments made in the 'Making of Symphonic/Magnification' that really just struck me wrong, and very egocentric about one's 'importance'. And if I actually heard from Howe something akin to Mood For A Day or Sound Chaser in present Yes, I'd have to say, well, he's still coming up with great guitar parts. But I don't hear that at all. I'm not expecting him to play like he did in 1972, I wouldn't want him to. At the same time, I don't hear anything remotely close in his present guitar duties that requires THAT much concentration.

As far as Squire's bass parts compared to Howe's duties on guitar:

Sorry, Squire's bass parts take as much concentration, since most of his Yes work involves counter melodies to the main themes. And if you notice, many of the orchestrations in Symphonic duplicate Squire's bass parts, because they are honestly the most orchestral sounding parts of any Yes song. I'm not saying Howe's parts aren't difficult, but in Gates of Delirium I'd say it's equal between the two as far as what's required to perform the 20 minute piece.

But as I said, my distaste for Howe has been building, because I find his attitudes so derogatory, but at the same time hypocritical. I understand some hurt and dejection that may come from Howe if Yes with Rabin became successful. But maybe Howe should have remembered that HE replaced someone else in Yes as well, And if HE went ahead replacing Jon Anderson with Trevor Horn on DRAMA, then HE is just as expendable in that revolving door. The message that got sent to Peter Banks and Tony Kaye right in the beginning were that you are part of the Cog. Bill Bruford cottoned on to that and surprised everyone by leaving on his own terms. Obviously Alan White is a permanent member. Wakeman replaces Kaye, to be replaced by Moraz, to be replaced by Wakeman to be replaced by Downes to be replaced by Kaye to be replaced by Wakeman. Howe may have thought how could I be replaced, but he should have known. Obviously, or maybe not, he thought with Drama that he was more important in that Cog than even Jon Anderson. When Yes went defunct, only to emerge again with Rabin, Howe's comments about the whole debacle smacked of bruised ego, not anything on artistic merit. Because ASIA and GTR go against everything he had to say about the commercial or marketed bent of new Yes.

And the commerical and marketed bent of new Yes was only created by those who said call it Yes, which wasn't Squire's or Rabin's plan when forming the group. I don't blame them for that, because they wanted to call it Cinema, and there was no Jon Anderson in sight. They made the choice to call it Yes, but I will never know how much pressure they were under from The Business to call it Yes. But I know The Business decided much of their future as soon as potential was seen to make huge amounts of money. And I just have always had a distaste for Howe's comments about Rabin, because I feel his anger or derogatory comments should be directed moreso at the Industry, maybe even Anderson for going along hap-happy along with 90125 and adding his name to a song that was going to be a hit before he ever got there. There is nothing 'Artistic' or with 'Aesthetic Integrity' in Howe's comments about Trevor Rabin. They are bruised ego and bitter blood. And when I see Squire go over to Howe for interaction, regardless of concentration needed to play guitar, I have to say, whatever Mr. Howe. You've been playing that guitar part for nearly 30 years, or at least in the past 6. You've gotten your way, YOU are the guitarist for Yes again, so it's the way you want it. But you don't impress me much anymore in the way you got there.

[Steve St Thomas]

AND despite those above comments, I think Steve Howe kicks butt on DRAMA. Because what he started to do on TORMATO despite Anderson & Wakeman's leanings, was becoming more unified with Squire & White, which for years he wasn't doing, opting to solo or guitar pontificate over everything. He starts doing this on Tormato, by Drama that's a WHOLE band playing together, and he did the same with ASIA. I hear no difference really in those 3 albums in Howe's playing, it was a 'short' time in coming. Of course he totally disappears on ALPHA, but what he began doing on Tormato carried right through to the first ASIA album, and maybe Geoff Downes inclusion was a necessary element in that step to changing Howe's approach.

[wolfhound]

Excellent posts. So much to respond to, but it's late. My point was more about Howe's display of anti-ego. I'm not downplaying the concentration Chris needs with his bass parts. I'd be daft to do that. Only that the lead guitar has some similarities with the trumpet from the Big Band days. When one of those notes are struck, all eyes and ears focus on it. Howe looked and often sounded like he was walking on eggshells during the Symphonic DVD. If he really had a troubling attitude, he would've made a point to dominate all the way through. As far as him wanting to be the sole guitarist, Steve needs the 'space' in a song to move, and to date, he's one of the very few who can make it pay off.

[Steve St Thomas]

Excellent posts. So much to respond to, but it's late. My point was more about Howe's display of anti-ego. I'm not downplaying the concentration Chris needs with his bass parts. I'd be daft to do that. Only that the lead guitar has some similarities with the trumpet from the Big Band days. When one of those notes are struck, all eyes and ears focus on it. Howe looked and often sounded like he was walking on eggshells during the Symphonic DVD. If he really had a troubling attitude, he would've made a point to dominate all the way through. As far as him wanting to be the sole guitarist, Steve needs the 'space' in a song to move, and to date, he's one of the very few who can make it pay off.

Thanks Wolf for taking the time to read them, I appreciate that. Hopefully you understand I read yours as well, and I didn't mean to come off sounding like Squire has it easy with the Bass. Sometimes 'guitarists' get the attitude because it has 6 strings that it requires 'more skill' than bass. Even though the Bass is not only interacting with the Drums, it also is complimenting or supporting vocals and guitar/keyboards in ways that other instruments don't have to. But I think you get the general jist of what I was saying about Guitar/Bass without getting the feeling it was 'defensive' or 'argumentative'. :)

[BrianD]

I have always thought that the stage work of Squire, Rabin and Howe are much more to do with their respective personalities.

Chris & Trevor enjoy doing that over-rehearsed extroverted guitar postures seen in many rock groups, Steve is more introverted - certainly he doesn't enjoy the standard guitarist interplay.

[Steve St Thomas]

I have always thought that the stage work of Squire, Rabin and Howe are much more to do with their respective personalities.

Chris & Trevor enjoy doing that over-rehearsed extroverted guitar postures seen in many rock groups, Steve is more introverted - certainly he doesn't enjoy the standard guitarist interplay.

I don't know, in his youth Howe certainly didn't restrain himself from whipping his hair about, and looking at the crowd directly when hitting certain notes, as if to say, look, I'm playing that note you heard on the record! :) ;)

[BrianD]

I don't know, in his youth Howe certainly didn't restrain himself from whipping his hair about, and looking at the crowd directly when hitting certain notes, as if to say, look, I'm playing that note you heard on the record! :) ;)

Sure - and he was like that a lot more last year too - but he was never one for posturing with Chris even in those early days.

[Steve St Thomas]

Sure - and he was like that a lot more last year too - but he was never one for posturing with Chris even in those early days.

True ---- nor did he wear the boots Squire used to wear either!!! :)

I think this is getting caught up in stage posturing, which was only part of my point. I know those making statements about that may feel that was my main beef with Howe, but I insist that that's only part of it. A lot of it has come from certain attitudes and statements made that just lend to that 'visual' performance. Just don't want it to get hung up in who does what on stage and who doesn't.

I still think a smile towards Squire would've been nice, or some other acknowledgement, cuz dey wuz playing the same part ;)

[Steve St Thomas]

As far as him wanting to be the sole guitarist, Steve needs the 'space' in a song to move, and to date, he's one of the very few who can make it pay off.

And just this one section of your post I have to highlight. Because I honestly don't hear him filling that space anymore. On Open Your Eyes and The Ladder, I can clearly hear Billy Sherwood's contributions filling out that space, and ironically, Sherwood sounds so much like Rabin, but I regretfully say, without half the talent. And I mean that regret sincerely, because i do not want to put the man's talents down in any way, based on another individual's (which is what many people do with Howe and Rabin, including Mr. Howe himself.) But Sherwood, for me, is no replacement for Rabin-style songs, though he certainly has fulfilled that role on the Yes/Conspiracy side of things. I'm trying to be very diplomatic here, without stepping on toes, and it's just not going well. Let's just say, the many chances I gave The Unknown were not because of Squire. I find it an enjoyable album now, and it begs the question what has Squire been doing in Yes the past 9 years. On the other hand, Conspiracy with Trevor Rabin on guitar would be 10x better. Because he is just phenomenally talented.

On both of those albums, Sherwood fills that space. In his absence, there is very little there that Howe is doing on newer material. On older material of course. But that stuff is over 30 years old, and he's just not writing anything like that for Yes albums now. He's breezing through it with short little solos reminiscent of this album, or that era, and so on. There is nothing he does in That, That Is, apart from his own Skates, which says I am filling this space. On GTR he filled too many spaces, but at least he was doing it. In ASIA, he was economic, as he was on the Drama album. Nowadays, I can barely hear the guy in the song. But as I've said before, I try and give all these albums (1996 - present) many chances. I listened to The Ladder the other day, and really only made it through 3 songs completely. Magnification is much stronger, but I just don't hear Howe doing anything incredible or interesting that the Strings didn't take care of. Yes are caught between trying to be Rabin-era Yes, and pleasing fans who don't want Rabin in it, so anything will do as long as thats all there needs to be. Which is why Conspiracy's album was such a shock to me, because I heard IDEAS.

[VanDerGraaf]

Really everyone, Steve has a good point about the lack of response from Howe towards Squire on stage.
It is a mistake to imagine that Howe just doesn't move on stage anymore. On the contrary, last year i stood less than ten feet from him watching him tear through a track from "Turbulence" whilst jumping, darting and weaving like a much younger man- a transformation from the subdued Steve of the Symphonic tour a few years before.

The simple fact is that Howe behaves as if Squire is practically an intruder when he appears beside him on stage. This coldness saddens me; but does not surprise.
It's his lack of effort to empathise, to create something, to engender a feeling that would take their playing higher- the spiritual dimension that we can all enter whether watcher or participant- that's the bit that frankly, i actually find somewhat unpleasant.

I would have to dislike someone quite a lot to act like that towards them in that situation (and i certainly have had experience of being on stage with people i wasn't too keen on over the years).
And no, he was never one for Trevor-style interaction with Chris. But his recent behaviour can't be explained by this alone. I have my own ideas why; over to you guys
for your own thoughts!

[KPatrick]

Steve has taken a few subtle shots at Chris in the past few years on this issue. I recall him derisively saying "One of our members goes out of his way to make a show, but that's not really us" or something to that effect. It was in a 2002 interview I think, a three-part interview in which he also discusses SKYLINE?... I don't know. But as Chris is my favorite musician, I remember things like this.

I think a worthier topic is "who died and made Steve Howe the judge of all things that are or are not Yes", a position he has seen fit to occupy -- with no small amount of assistance from certain fan publications which shall remain nameless -- for the past 10+ years. No question, Steve's artisitic conscience and soul are among the strongest in music, but... well, dude, I've seen YESSONGS. "Making it a show" used to be part of his act. And my brain may have invented this memory, but I am almost sure that I remember him DUCK WALKING -- that's right, I said DUCK WALKING, as in Chuck Berry -- on the UNION tour, in Canandaigua NY, 7/19/91, my first YESSHOW, all the way across the front of the stage, during "Yours Is No Disgrace", where he re-plays the intro riff before the second verse (the one Chris plays solo under vocals). I think this actually happened because it was the first time I'd even seen any of them live, and I remember thinking "wow! awesome riff! rock and roll, long-haired guy!" Maybe The Whale or some other upstate NY yesfan can confirm?

[Steve St Thomas]

I watched the video I have of the UNION tour from the last date of it, August 8th (?) 1991.

The surprise of seeing Howe smile at Trevor Rabin was enough! Part of me wishes his issues with Rabin could have been solved, because I think it would have been damn interesting to hear them take harmonised solos on certain songs, Yours Is No Disgrace being a prime example of a missed opportunity.

But then I see Steve Howe make a comment about how he didn't like Trevor doing wacky things over the top of Howe material. I understand that, because if you feel anything at all about what you create, it's like your baby, it's like a child to you. And you can be very protective of it. I understand that completely. Unfortunately, kids grow up and you can't coddle them, and they have to go out in the world and make their own mistakes, and have people touch their lives in ways you might not like them being handled. That's life. That's not a song. And I feel what Howe does with the wah-wah pedal in Yours Is No Disgrace is pretty damn wacky for then, and even hearing it on the Union tour, it still comes across wacky. So I'm not sure what Rabin did over the top of what was already wacky. I didn't hear him doing anything particularly outlandish to the song, and personally his solo section (which was worked to include Alan White's drums - but just better than Whitefish!) impressed me more than Howe's Chet Atkins, Wes Montgomery stylings. And maybe because I've heard them all before. I don't know. But Howe was certainly animated playing this solo, and he definitely interacted with the crowd. When Anderson insisted Howe and Rabin share a microphone between them, there seemed to be no problem whatsoever.

So what's with all the public interview, it ain't that way, I'm nice on stage but behind your back . . . . . .

I've never been a fan of bands/producers who slag off, put down, demean other members of the band. The biggest example of this is Paul McCartney, John Lennon and George Martin in reference to Ringo Starr and George Harrison. The things they have said about these two people, and their importance to the Beatles framework, doesn't make them geniuses to me. It makes them selfish, egotistical, industry coddled kiss asses to Media and Millions. Particularly George Martin, whose view changed on Harrison when All Things Must Pass was released, and it outsold both McCartney and Lennon's solo albums combined. Martin totally blasted the McCartney and Lennon albums, and praised the Harrison album. Lennon of course blasted back (so much for Give Peace a Chance -- if Gandhi had done that, India would be full of Fish and Chips and Kebab shops). That Harrison's All Things Must Pass in spirit, recording, and intent sounds nothing like Martin's production style, or any Beatle album Martin totally missed, but he praises you when you're up, and kicks you when you're down. (Much like Howe did on Yes's TALK tour.)

It doesn't even make good business sense, saying two of the parts of your four part product are faulty and not worth the price. And considering that Martin got made SIR not because of his work on the Goon Show, not because he was Ray Cathode at one time, but because of The Beatles, then I can't understand why he would put anyone of them down. But he learned well from Lennon & McCartney, and the Media they fed, which fed them in return.

When I learned that Howe also makes profit from any Yes configuration, as part of the partnership, it doesn't even make sense there. The 300,000 people that bought TALK gave Howe some money in that as well, which should be ample compensation for the fact that Phil Carson opted not to go with a UNION line-up, or a sextet, or anything other than YESWEST, because that's where the money was. He didn't even allow an outside producer to come in, it had to be Trevor Rabin or they weren't recording an album. That's business. That Howe would let that side of the business be almost unsuspect, but totally lay into Trevor Rabin, his former bandmates, and any product they release without him, just doesn't make sense. Especially when your profits from things you do with that band are far less than when you're not in it.
Has anyone seen statements by Rabin, Squire, Kaye, White or Anderson that knocked ASIA? That knocked GTR? Or did not wish Howe success with those things? I'm not aware of any, and there may well might be. But somehow I don't think they'd be halfway near as vocal as Howe about Rabin-era Yes. If Bruford had those things to say, I could honestly take it. He's forthright, and he's an intelligent, well spoken man, who tends to choose his words carefully, but no less abrasively. Howe does not have this distinction, and it comes off as pompousity, and sometimes immature.

If anyone does find comments by YESWEST about ASIA, GTR, solo HOWE, let me know. I'd love to see them.

[smatt]

In an vain attempt to help explain this situation.......


A certain member I can quote personally said........

"A couple of us still know we're in a ROCK band, and a couple of us don't want to be in a ROCK band anymore. A couple of us want to play loud and hard, as well as subtle and beautiful. A couple of us just want to play subtle and beautiful."

There's no doubt that age has played a par tin the reactions of the guys on stage to each other. Chris is a ham, a performer, an actor. He's a ROCK musician playeing the part to the fullest extent. Steve has always required his space on stage. Indeed in his youger years he had much more crunch to his sound and was far more apt to react to the others actions within the framework of a performance. Now he seems to be more into the subtleties of each individual piece of music. At least trying to be more true to the original concept of the piece. Even more so then when they performed said pieces while supporting each album.

Trevor took the squire approach one step further, he was the consumate ROCK Star with the leather pants and the fast basic scales of every 80's axe man. Not to disparge Trevor's palying he's a fine player. But almost certainly a better rock star.....

These guys all have different approaches to their performances. They always have had that. The personalities involved in Yes ove rthe years couldn't really have been more diverse. That's what makes them one of the most truly interesting of any Prog. bands ever.These wern't a bunch of prog. musicians in a prog band. They were a bunch of musicains of differing opinions and styles melded into a prog. rock band.

I wouldn't have had it any other way!

:band:

[The Whale]

in Canandaigua NY, 7/19/91, I think this actually happened because it was the first time I'd even seen any of them live, and I remember thinking "wow! awesome riff! rock and roll, long-haired guy!" Maybe The Whale or some other upstate NY yesfan can confirm?

Wow you spelled Canandaigua! most people get it wrong. I was not at the Union show, but I can say that last year he was vary animated in Toronto and other places. He would do the chicken and the elbowe swing and even get down on one knee!!!

People forget that Trevor was in yes for 12 years!
and
People forget that steve was in for a total of 18 years with a 16 year lay off!

Whats a bigger injustise, playing steve's stuff diffrent. or not playing Trevor's stuff at all?

[Bluegrunt]

Hey all, I stood inches from Steve on his Remedy tour in 2004, and he was having a great time, and it was obvious to all who were watching. If he chooses to be cool towards Chris at Yesshows, that's ok with me. Who knows what he means by it? He's maybe having us all on - a joke arranged with Chris beforehand, who knows? I just know that the sound from Yes in 2004 on tour was better than I have EVER heard them. Jon's voice was clear and strong, Steve seemed to be enjoying himself, as did the all of the others. I just don't think we should read too much into what they say or do - I'd rather let the music speak to me - as it has done for 30 years since I first saw them in 1975. Hey, it was 30 years ago last week, and I never realised! How about that!

God I feel old.

Sweet dreams, they played in 1975, and it sounded just beautiful.

[The Whale]

bluegrunt! welcome home good to see you here. Ironicly I'm listening to remedy right now!

[The Whale]

I wouldn't have had it any other way!

:band:

well said.

[KPatrick]

[QUOTE=smatt]"'A couple of us still know we're in a ROCK band, and a couple of us don't want to be in a ROCK band anymore. A couple of us want to play loud and hard, as well as subtle and beautiful. A couple of us just want to play subtle and beautiful.'"

If that was who I think it was, well, yeah, dude. Amen.



"Indeed in his youger years he had much more crunch to his sound and was far more apt to react to the others actions within the framework of a performance. Now he seems to be more into the subtleties of each individual piece of music. At least trying to be more true to the original concept of the piece. Even more so then when they performed said pieces while supporting each album."

Fair, Matt, but compare YESSONGS to... well, any other live Yes I've ever heard -- which isn't a lot compared to many people here, but is enough, live and on recordings, of a sample size to form an opinion. YESSONGS captured a band at the apex of its powers, and Steve more so than anyone. His work on that album is almost alarming in its intensity. And while NOT NECESSARILY ACOUSTIC is great work, in the realm of Yes, I say YESSONGS is Steve at his best. Subtlety or no

"These guys all have different approaches to their performances. They always have had that. The personalities involved in Yes ove rthe years couldn't really have been more diverse. That's what makes them one of the most truly interesting of any Prog. bands ever.These wern't a bunch of prog. musicians in a prog band. They were a bunch of musicains of differing opinions and styles melded into a prog. rock band.

I wouldn't have had it any other way!"

Can't really argue with that.