View Full Version : Rate 'That, That Is'
sonofolias
04-08-2002, 10:53 PM
My goodness--what goodness! The best since 'Awaken.'
Jackaranda
04-08-2002, 11:07 PM
It has it's moments, but really a disappointment. Be the One is better.
RobAdams
04-08-2002, 11:10 PM
I listen to this often along with BE THE ONE.
The music I rate quite high. I really enjoy the instrumentation. My only real problem with it are the lyrics. Most of the lyrics are great once you pass the introductory part where you learn about Julie and Shirley and the crack situation. I see what Jon wanted to do here, but leave the story telling to Bob Dylan, James Taylor, Neil Young and the like. The lyrics for THAT THAT IS seem like they'd be more at home on a Jon solo or Jon & Vangelis project. I like to let my thoughts drift off imagining what Jon's lyrics mean. I like Jon's lyrics better when he doesn't spell it all out for us.
It's true that we're not accustomed to Jon telling stories in his songs. I prefer him when he remains abstract and use space or obscure lyrics. A song telling a story is not a Jon's song to me. I prefer when he is above the material contingencies of our world.
Originally posted by i-and-i
I listen to this often along with BE THE ONE.
The music I rate quite high. I really enjoy the instrumentation. My only real problem with it are the lyrics. Most of the lyrics are great once you pass the introductory part where you learn about Julie and Shirley and the crack situation. I see what Jon wanted to do here, but leave the story telling to Bob Dylan, James Taylor, Neil Young and the like. The lyrics for THAT THAT IS seem like they'd be more at home on a Jon solo or Jon & Vangelis project. I like to let my thoughts drift off imagining what Jon's lyrics mean. I like Jon's lyrics better when he doesn't spell it all out for us.
Yes! When Jon starts singing about Julie and Shirley I have to make a conscious effort to get over it.
Originally posted by Flo
It's true that we're not accustomed to Jon telling stories in his songs. I prefer him when he remains abstract and use space or obscure lyrics. A song telling a story is not a Jon's song to me. I prefer when he is above the material contingencies of our world.
AND YES! That's when Jon's lyrics are at their best.
brismike
04-09-2002, 10:46 AM
Hi All
I rate this as the best song they ever did in the 90's. I don't rate "Be The One" though.
I always skip that song.
I would like to hear "That that Is" live but i have a feeling this will be relegated to the vault of Yes tracks never to be played live.
Mike
When "That, That Is' was released I hadn't returned to the Yes fold as of yet. I wasn't keeping track of their career at that time.
It wasn't until I saw their tour in 76 that I began to seek out albums that I wasn't familiar with from the 80's and early 90's.
unfortunately I still dismissed most of the music of that period uncluding 'That, That Is and 'Be The One'. I really didn't like it initially. Due the fact that I loved hearing the 'Live' tracks on 'KEYS', it began to grow on me as time went on. Now I feel that 'That, That Is' has all the trademark elements of a typical Yes epic. I've grown to enjoy its dynamics and musical arrangement.
What really strikes me about this song as with many other YES songs (regardless of whether I like them or not) is the message in the lyrics. I love all music that tries to raise the spiritual & social consiousness of its audience. And though, 'That, That Is' isn't perfect and flawed in certain ways, I love the lyrics.
bataisflow
04-09-2002, 03:47 PM
Great song. A return to the Yes sound - finally!
BrianD
04-15-2002, 05:03 AM
A very uneven song - some great instrumental sections but weak lyrics and melodies. Jon really specialises in first or second person songs - I, we, me, you, yours etc. It all seems a bit forced when he tells a story about characters (One major exception being Turn of the Century).
I also feel Jon's singing is below par on this track.
Is 'That, That Is' about characters. I always felt that it was about an 'idea' based on "Love Eternal"
Joedude
04-15-2002, 11:47 PM
The instrumental section right at the start is absolutely astounding. The rest of it ain't too bad either.
metaphoricdreamer
04-16-2002, 01:33 AM
Why is 'That, That Is' a favorite?
The incredibly beautiful guitar solo intro.
The 'Voice'.....Jon sounds like a choir boy in the 'All In All' section.
The harmonies.
The creative drumming.
The unmistakable Wakeman contribution.
The 'beep.'
Each member has their shining moments, yet the synergy is strong.
What a finish!
It's the best symphonic epic they've written in years.
Regarding the subject matter:
Not unlike 'Gates,' it's about hope from despair, resolution after conflict. Jon may have been reacting to a real situation--as he often does. Sadly, he could be talking about an incident that occured in my hometown a few years back.
Martin Riley
05-24-2002, 04:39 AM
It says Yes on the cover. It sounds like Yes. My God it is Yes. Why people can't see that this is the real deal is beyond me. What do they want from Yes? Progress? This is progress.It may not have the groundbreaking sonic effect that TALK had just had, but this is a version of the band that is working together for the first time since 1979 and this is a progression from TORMATO and the Paris sessions. This is a band that has progressed, in both it's sound and in it's working practices. Is it retro? Would you have been pleased to hear this in 1979? I doubt whether you would have dismissed it as retro then. It would probably be placed much higher in the esteem of Yes fans had it come out then.
Having said that, Mind Drive was better.
nightliner
05-24-2002, 05:24 AM
I'll be flamed for this, but its' one of my least favorite Yessongs.
RobAdams
05-24-2002, 05:56 AM
I haven't got any matches!
No flaming here. I can't really get fully into THAT THAT IS. It's a great attempt that has some of Jon's most indigestible lyrics. I don't want to think about crackheads.
In terms of the music itself, it's quite good, but I wouldn't want to see them play this live.
sonofolias
05-25-2002, 07:06 PM
Most consider 'Gates' a classic.
"Kill them, give them as they give us. Slay them, burn their children's laughter on to hell."
Is this more palatable?
Peace from war (Gates)...redemption from hopelessness (That, That Is).
And the difference is?
Gustavo
05-25-2002, 09:37 PM
Other parts suck.
For me it’s not the “reality” or harsh theme per se; nothing wrong with tackling a social issue. The lyrics just sound really awkward. They sound as awkward as the lyrics to Don’t Go. The lyrics to We Agree are much better and there he is also taking on a difficult issue.
The song has some really good moments: the intro, the “newsroom chant”, the “all in all” part, but it also drags on too long.
It was a nice try!
illusion
07-01-2002, 08:06 AM
Love the intro.
I've decided that I like the song. So what if the lyrics are about Julie and Shirley and drugs?
At the end of the day I don't care what Jon sings about, it's his voice that matters andyou can't fault that.
After saying that the singing on the Keys studio tracks is poor. I don't know why.
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