Tales From Topographic Oceans [Archive] - Yesfans.com: Founded 4/01

yesyadda

03-06-2005, 08:49 AM

Well, (so far) four out of four Tales fans agree- it's the best! I first heard it when it was released 30 years ago and as I recall, many of the movements throughout the entire work immediately impressed me. Maybe it was just the 70's or the phase of life I was going through but it soon became a very special album and remains so to this day.

QBall, there are many threads devoted to Tales so you may want to read up on some of the comments that are out there. Try doing a thread search.

Hey- great scan of the album cover!

True Believer

03-06-2005, 11:29 PM

QBall, you will definitely need several listens right through and then home in on parts that grab you and get right into them. It's just such an awesome album with so many different facets - well worth the journey. Enjoy!

Amy

03-06-2005, 11:38 PM

It's definitely one of the best Q-Ball. The same thing happened to me in the 70's. I gave it one not-very-good listen and tossed it aside feeling it wasn't as good as the others. I only listened to it again this past year. Maybe it's my age, I don't know, but it grabbed me instantly on the first listen this time. Definitely keep listening. Maybe you'll save yourself the agony of.."OMG!! I CAN'T BELIEVE I MISSED OUT ON THIS FOR 20 YEARS!!!"
I'm still kicking myself.

Sheerah

03-06-2005, 11:56 PM

03-07-2005, 12:54 AM

Great, Shiela. Just great. I wish I had been there!

Nut

03-07-2005, 10:34 AM

Tale has been my favorite for years. If I can get a chance to hear it through in one sitting, you know like some people watch their favorite movie over and over, it is sooooo cool.

cinderella

03-07-2005, 10:41 AM

I got the Tales CD for Christmas. I had it on vinyl and hadn't listened to it for such a long time. It was nice hearing it again. It's a fantastic album in my opinion. I hope you'll give it a chance.

I think the album cover is just so beautiful. It's one of my favorites.

Bugeyes

03-07-2005, 10:56 AM

The artwork soothes me. The perspective of being so far away, from that distance it needs to be heard, to the moment you awake to find you are part of it, in the moment up close and personal. Exquisite! The thing just unfolds gracefully before you know it. "...caught within the spell..."

Sheila, you were in the cover artwork! A Tangible.

ANTIOCH

03-07-2005, 12:56 PM

My friend once said "it's a must you listen to 'Tales' in it's entirety at least once a year. It's like a religous experience." And I agree !

Timmo

03-07-2005, 01:02 PM

I'd say more like once a week.

Bugeyes

03-07-2005, 01:03 PM

Okay, it's in my playlist at work. Let's hear it for everyday! Oh, just me? oops... :angel:

yarstruly

03-07-2005, 01:11 PM

I listen to it in its entirety pretty frequently, but I still only give it a 3...far from my favorite Yes album...I Like RSOG & Ritual quite a bit, but the Remembering & the Ancient, while thay have thir moments, just don't do it for me...

wolfhound

03-07-2005, 03:42 PM

I don't know how to rate some YES works. Tales has had a large impact on my life. I bought the album when it 1st came out and I almost always listened to it all the way through. It somehow helped change my outlook.

When I was listening to "Ritual" it struck me that I didn't need to struggle and fight with my friends and family over minutia anymore. Some larger picture dawned on me. It changed the way I interacted with people. I think that change remains to this day. Maybe change was coming anyway, but Tales attached to it a mellow manner.

Amy

03-07-2005, 04:19 PM

I'd say more like once a week.
That's about average. Twice is better.

Timmo

03-07-2005, 04:58 PM

I went through a period in the late 70s when I was listening to it AT LEAST once a day.

That partially overlapped with my "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" obsessive period, which I also listened to daily.

Braniff92

03-08-2005, 05:59 AM

To this day "Tales" is still my favorite album by any band of all time. Each time I listen I get goose bumps at different times. A true Masterpiece. Geez Sheila, sounds like you had quite a "Yes Moment"!!!!! Al.

MoonGateClimber

03-08-2005, 09:15 AM

Crap!!!
I was talking & accidentaly hit #2 thinking that meant #2 in my top 5. Tales is only beat out by CttE for the top spot for me.

BredYes

03-08-2005, 10:40 AM

I gave it a 5. It took me around 10 years before I really liked this one, while I liked Close to the Edge and Fragile inmediately. So there is hope for you QBall!

Nut

03-08-2005, 10:55 AM

Ok this may be redundant commenting on the same thread twice but I must say.
I love this album. It is my very favorite. It was the second reissue I bought. I only bought Relayer first because it was also my first Yes I ever owned and I have never really bought a copy myself so I figured it would be cool, but Tales was next. I played the album so much in my younger youth that when I put on the CD I didn’t recognize the beginning. My copy was so scratchy and distorted at the beginning when I got around to putting it on cassette I guess I cut off the beginning or something. Still it is the best. If you don’t like it, that’s ok too. Rick says that it is said of this album you either love it or hate it. Rick doesn’t love it. And So It Goes.

Symbol

03-08-2005, 01:28 PM

Always has been my favorite!

CTTEfan

03-08-2005, 03:35 PM

"Tales" is my second favorite YES album behind "Close To The Edge". Having said that, EVERY time I listen to it I get that swaying and head bobbing feeling and I think to myself, "This is the best album ever recorded." It has sooo much to offer - slow quiet moments, fast rocking moments, nice acoustic stuff, screaming electric stuff, soothing melodic passages, disjointed experimental passages, etc, etc, etc..... I believe that the more you listen to it, the more you'll love it. I know I do.

Amy

03-09-2005, 04:48 PM

I'm going to listen to Tales while I cook tonight.
I've been wanting to hear it all day.

Timmo

03-09-2005, 06:55 PM

Are you making Totally Topographic Tamales?

MoonGateClimber

03-09-2005, 09:20 PM

I have an interesting, yet not as happy a story about when I first got Tales.
The day I first got it I listened to the first three songs, then got about halfway through the creepy percussion solo of Ritual, & had to leave it. That morning, I could not get out of bed. It seemed that I had pulled a muscle in my back, even though I had not done anything too strenuous to hurt myself.
Well, this pain seemed to ease slightly, but it would always come back. It ended up that this was not a back strain, but an infection due to pnemounia. This went on for a couple more months, & it slowly went away with taking 4 pills a day, & an inhaleor. Then, because of my pnemounia I now have Pleural Effusion ( fluid in the lining of the lungs ). I don't know if I'll ever get better!!
I'm not saying that I think that Tales did this to me, I'm just astonished at that coincidence & how suddenly it hit.

Amy

03-09-2005, 10:22 PM

Are you making Totally Topographic Tamales?
HeeHeeHee....with hamburgers, pickles and chips on the side.

sherriff_johnbrown

03-09-2005, 11:41 PM

This album has some good material....but way, way too much fluff.

03-10-2005, 12:38 AM

cinderella

03-10-2005, 12:54 AM

I'm going to listen to Tales while I cook tonight.
I've been wanting to hear it all day.

I listened to it yesterday when I was cleaning.
Excellent music to move to. :D

yesyadda

03-10-2005, 07:57 AM

Well, there's fluff - like dryer lint; then there's fluff- like the creamy smooth filling in cakes and cookies. From start to finish the entire Tales work flows seamlessly, it fits, it belongs, it makes sense.

I was going through some very difficult times in college when a friend gave me a book in which I found great solice. It was about the same time Tales was released. Months after I finished the book, I was reading the liner notes on the Tales cover and was surprised to learn that the album was inspired (in part, at least) by excerpts from this particular work.

One very boring evening I decided to enhance my Tales experience ala 1970's recreation (DISCLAIMER: JUST SAY NO TO DRUGS ;)). Well folks, I'm here to tell you that the music recreated the Autobiography of a Yogi in my itty bitty brain that night.

I do believe there is plenty of 'fluff' in some of Yes's music but it ain't here.

capnkrk

03-10-2005, 09:37 AM

I'd give a lot to turn back the clock and get turned on to this record for the first time. Don't expect to "get it" straight away, Tales releases itself to everyone in a different way and on its own terms. Don't force it, let it develop. In time, it will make sense.

leteyer

03-10-2005, 09:49 AM

I was looking for 10 but couldn't find it.

"Lay upon me, hold me around lasting hours"

Pure magic!! Even though I was there at the time, my dream is that they put a tour playing only Tales...They have the right line-up, don't they?

And the funny thing was at the time that we were so frustrated and sad about Rick leaving the group and then they came up with Relayer...And at lest for me that was like WOW, after TFTO I expected so much less...What a great follow up.

Bugeyes

03-10-2005, 09:49 AM

Dude, bummer man and this made me curious. Fluid in ANY lining hurts like ... !!! How do you feel about it now?

I have an interesting, yet not as happy a story about when I first got Tales.
The day I first got it I listened to the first three songs, then got about halfway through the creepy percussion solo of Ritual, & had to leave it. That morning, I could not get out of bed. It seemed that I had pulled a muscle in my back, even though I had not done anything too strenuous to hurt myself.
Well, this pain seemed to ease slightly, but it would always come back. It ended up that this was not a back strain, but an infection due to pnemounia. This went on for a couple more months, & it slowly went away with taking 4 pills a day, & an inhaleor. Then, because of my pnemounia I now have Pleural Effusion ( fluid in the lining of the lungs ). I don't know if I'll ever get better!!
I'm not saying that I think that Tales did this to me, I'm just astonished at that coincidence & how suddenly it hit.

MoonGateClimber

03-12-2005, 07:07 PM

Dude, bummer man and this made me curious. Fluid in ANY lining hurts like ... !!! How do you feel about it now?
I'm fine, but I still have it. It only hurts when I breathe in deeply.

joecool

03-12-2005, 10:30 PM

I first heard it around '82. By the time the CD came out I'd worn out two vinyl copies and one cassette."The Ancient" is the only movement that I would score less than superb.

We've moved fast, we need love. A part we offer is our only freedom.

sherriff_johnbrown

03-12-2005, 11:04 PM

MORGAN: Speaking of memories and Maple Leaf Gardens, I saw you playing with Yes on the Tales From Topographic Oceans tour in 1973, and then I saw you a year later in 1974 during your own Journey To The Center Of The Earth solo tour. And I have to say, you seemed a lot happier playing your own music.

WAKEMAN: I love Yes dearly, but I didn't enjoy Topographic Oceans. At the time I actually said it was an over-padded pile of ----. Those were the days when things were very black and white; we weren't mature enough to sit down and discuss things.

The truth of the matter is, I still don't like the album. There's a lot of very good things on it; there's some very good moments on it. But there's tons of padding. When we went in to do it, we had too much material for a single album. So you either made it into a double album—which means write a lot more stuff—or you just reduce the size and make it into a single album. The fact of life is, we went the wrong route and we didn't have any other material. So there was padding for days on it. And Yes had never done that and I really objected to it. Vehemently objected to it.

MORGAN: And that's why you ended up taking a walk for the first time.

WAKEMAN: Absolutely. We've all discussed it for a long time since then, and everybody actually agrees now that if the world of CD had been with us then, that problem would never have arisen. One track might've been eleven minutes, one might've been nine, one might've been twenty-six, one might've been fourteen. They would've had their natural length. It was an album that was eventually tailored and padded out to fit four sides of an album.

And I didn't like it. So I left.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

cinderella

03-12-2005, 11:10 PM

Well, there's fluff - like dryer lint; then there's fluff- like the creamy smooth filling in cakes and cookies. From start to finish the entire Tales work flows seamlessly, it fits, it belongs, it makes sense.

Mmmmmmmmm fluffy cake and cookie filling.
I do find Leaves Of Green quite sweet and creamy. http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/swoon.gif

sherriff_johnbrown

03-12-2005, 11:13 PM

You must be a great musician. I can't wait to hear your music.

Some of the greatest players I've ever worked with admire Tales. They'd love to hear your work, too.

Who else here agrees that those who don't write or even play music's thoughts and opinions are not in the least bit valid, and have no stance to analyze, criticize, and/or form their own opinion about anything (without listening to a real musician first)? I completely and totally agree.

Amy

03-12-2005, 11:13 PM

Listening to The Ancient right now.
Hmmm....I don't hear any fluff.

Timmo

03-12-2005, 11:50 PM

You must be a great musician. I can't wait to hear your music.

Some of the greatest players I've ever worked with admire Tales. They'd love to hear your work, too.Paul, please refrain from personal attacks.

Nobody has to be a 'musician" to have an opinion.

Timmo

03-12-2005, 11:52 PM

Who else here agrees that those who don't write or even play music's thoughts and opinions are not in the least bit valid, and have no stance to analyze, criticize, and/or form their own opinion about anything (without listening to a real musician first)? I completely and totally agree.I agree with you SJB.

The poster is revealing far more about his bias and personal worldview than he is advancing any relevant ideas about Yes music.

Amy

03-13-2005, 12:07 AM

It took many listens for me to appreciate Tales just the way it is. The Ancient was my least favorite when I first heard it. I was hooked on Tales right away, but didn't listen to it all the way through like I do now. So I can understand what people say about filler..I just don't agree with it, because I love the album so much. I really wouldn't change a thing. To shorten it would ruin the overall effect. It would take away from those AMAZING sections...like the end of The Remembering, because they would come too soon.

sherriff_johnbrown

03-13-2005, 12:14 AM

You must be a great musician. I can't wait to hear your music.

Some of the greatest players I've ever worked with admire Tales. They'd love to hear your work, too.

They were welcome to come today to my school's music festival and hear it if they'd like...I'm not that great, I am second chair above juniors and seniors, but they suck, and I have a pretty closed, tight embouchere that needs to mature.

Oh, well, there's always next year that your friends can fly out or something...

sherriff_johnbrown

03-13-2005, 12:14 AM

Sorry, I couldn't resist....

heehee

But seriously, I won't dwell on this any more.

03-13-2005, 06:36 AM

I agree with you SJB.

The poster is revealing far more about his bias and personal worldview than he is advancing any relevant ideas about Yes music.

Thank you for defining "personal attack", timmy. Read it again, timmy. You are engaging in personal attack. Now, if you read my post, it is sarcasm. Much different. Please learn the difference.

World view? WTF are you talking about? Doesn't this sort of thing belong on your politics forum? We'll discuss it there.

03-13-2005, 06:54 AM

This album has some good material....but way, way too much fluff.

Sheriff, you say "This album has..." meaning that this does factually exist. If you had said, "To me, it seems like ..." then you are offering a subjective opinion. That's fine. No problems there.

But, you said it "has way, way, too much fluff". So, point it out for me. That will require music to be delineated in some fashion. I assumed you must be knowledgeable of the music since you came to a factual conclusion.

Did you know that I heard that same quote 20 years ago? Even 25? It all came from the one source. One.

I do hope you get a chance to read the many interviews and quotes from those that wrote this music rather than their critics. The two of them huddled together night after night in hotel rooms while on tour for Close to the Edge. Can you imagine? It's a remarkable labor of passion. Perhaps unparalleled in the rock genre. The tour was a sellout. The interviews are a goldmine of insight.

steve4001

03-13-2005, 10:30 AM

This thread’s diversity of opinion is inevitable and refreshing. If the boys in the band can’t agree on the merits of TFTO, what chance have we got? For my part this is my favourite Yes album by quite some distance. It took me a long time to reach that conclusion, largely because I found it hard to encompass such a complex and lengthy work. However, it’s an album that rewards patience and my eventual opinion of TFTO is so far removed from my initial opinion that I am now hesitant to opine when my initial exposure to any work of art produces an extreme reaction. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

flep

03-13-2005, 10:36 AM

5
5
5
5
5

What more is there to be said about "Tales"

In my opinion it is a masterpiece.

I believe in this century it will finally be looked on in the same reverance of the classical master pieces by the likes of Beethoven, Mozart etc.

It is 1 hour 20 minutes of classical Yes

My first ever LP I bought and in my opinion Yes's finest ever piece of work

Have I got through yet?

I love Yes but Tales transcends anything they have ever done and ever will do.

flep

03-13-2005, 10:44 AM

I listened to it yesterday when I was cleaning.
Excellent music to move to. :D

Ah Cindy

My opinion of your muscial tastes with regards to Yes has gone up 1000%

Yes that's 1000%. I thought you only loved MR R (I can't blame you though)

I suppose that's why we're all here.

We love Yes

Cast Iron Leader

03-13-2005, 10:55 AM

Annoying - spent ages typing out reply only to come back few days later and post is removed - why when I did not swear was it removed, or is database for website so bloated it cannot handle traffic through site and number of posts by number of users.

So I shall reply again with addition on later posts by others if people don't mind.

This is tough album. A great deal of rubbish has been said by great number of people about music on it and, like poastby is pointing out, much of what is said is not to be trusted itself and to many people have habit of repeating what others have said as if it was fact when it is not. Saying is that first books author only put in book what author knew and other author's who read book went on to say same things in different way and so no book contains truth because nobody knows what truth is anymore.

The best thing to deal with is facts and plain fact of matter is that people will always disagree about 'Tales' album because material in it touches on high spiritual ideals. One should also recall that even Rick Wakeman says that he doesn't hold 'Tales' in high regard, but how much of his opinion is dictated by his christian values and which are values almost opposed to eastern philosophical traditions as he would even readily admit himself even if the passing of years have matured his outlook. Fact is that so many people have repeated other people's opinions so many times that in many ways nobody knows what to think or say any longer.

How many people hear say cannot stand 'The Ancient' - many and all say because to complicated and all of a jumble. How many fans can see go orgasmic and starry eyed at moment Steve plays first few notes and Jon sings 'Do the leaves of green stay greener through the autumn - Does the colour of the sun turn crimson white - Does a shadow come between us in the winter - Is the movement really light'... actually whole audiance go starry eyed and orgasm and yet this is complicated jumbly song that no man understands - rubbish - is music and all people can understand music.

I repeat what I said elsewhere on board - is important to learn to form own opinions and not parrot what others say or think simply because saying is exceptable or politically correct. I tell you 'Tales' rewards many listens and holds some of bands best ever work on all levels, but best you form own ideas and hold with them once formed.

sherriff_johnbrown

03-13-2005, 11:27 AM

So, point it out for me.

I did in a later post. There's no need to become hysterical over a person who doesn't like one of your favorite albums. So let's just kill this before it grows.

:lmao:

Sheerah

03-13-2005, 01:38 PM

Who else here agrees that those who don't write or even play music's thoughts and opinions are not in the least bit valid, and have no stance to analyze, criticize, and/or form their own opinion about anything (without listening to a real musician first)? I completely and totally agree.

I don't think that music is created for musicians. It's created for everyone. And the majority of those who listen to music, I assume, are not musicians.

Jackaranda

03-13-2005, 02:20 PM

I gave it a 4. Probably a 4 1/2 would be more accurate. It's almost a great album. Only The Ancient keeps it from being a 5, for me.

Right now I'm really into the live version of Ritual from last year's tour.

Did anyone see the post about Yesshows where it said all of Tales was supposed to be on the original version? Now I've always wanted them to put the entire Tales album out live.

Scaramouche

03-13-2005, 03:17 PM

This album has some good material....but way, way too much fluff.You must be a great musician. I can't wait to hear your music.

Some of the greatest players I've ever worked with admire Tales. They'd love to hear your work, too.Who else here agrees that those who don't write or even play music's thoughts and opinions are not in the least bit valid, and have no stance to analyze, criticize, and/or form their own opinion about anything (without listening to a real musician first)? I completely and totally agree.

This is a terrible, terrible thing to say. Music is something that touches the soul of everyone who cares to listen. What your implying is great music is created purely as subject matter for musicians and people who can read music to sit around and disect. Nothing can be further from the truth. Your implying you have to belong to what in your mind is obviously an elitist and superior group in order to qualify to listen and appreciate music.

There are two arguments which blow your statement out of the water. Firstly I am not a musician, I do not play an instrument nor do I read music, but I do not think these talents are essential when forming an opinion on whether you like a peice of music or not.

I need no musical training for me to ascertain that rap, techno, trance and hardcore garage music is the biggest pile of horses*** its been my misfortune to hear. If you look at such logic its ludicrous. Its like saying that you would need to be a doctor to know if you have a cough or not.

Secondly if you were to read, Close to the Edge a biography of Yes by Chris Welch (considering of course that like us lesser mortals you can read proper words aswell as music) you will find that at the time of Tales, none of the Yesmen aside from Wakeman could read music and they certainly couldn't write it down. This was also the case with The Beatles perhaps the most fundamental music group of the twentieth century. Are you now going to argue that even THEY didn't have any right to discuss or form an opinion on anything with a musical topic???

I Don't think so.

So as I said before so I will say again. I am not a musician, never have been and probably never will be, but I reserve the right to continue to listen to whatever the hell I please, form an opinion about it, discuss it with my freinds, sing it and hum it regardless of your unfair, biased and if I may say so slightly facist point of view.

Consider it a stubborn streak in an inferior, unmusical and therefore flawed human being.

Goodday

Skyward

03-13-2005, 03:22 PM

If I understand correctly, as far as one having to be a musician in order to fully appreciate a given effort is concerned, to me, that is bunk! Music, like beauty ( with only a sensory difference ) is in the ear of the beholder. The technical complexities involved will surely be appreciated more readily by the accomplished musician than the common layperson. However, the overall effect is what counts and that my friends, is where the rubber...er, nevermind. If 'padding' goes undetected by the multitudes and is instead appreciated as an extension of said effort, then perhaps it becomes a rather moot point. This in no way is meant to dismiss Rick's angle ( or anyone else's ) on TFTO has he is certainly entitled to say whatever he feels with respect to the album's making. Still, it all boils down to opinion...period. Hey, I think Kiss sucks dirt, but that is just my opinion. I do not expect any fan to convert to my way of thinking as a result of my voiced lack of appreciation.

TFTO, IMHO, is one of the greatest musical efforts ever devised. For me, it's a musical unveiling of a mystical story with lyrics that stir the imagination. A true masterpiece in every way. Now, it is quite probable that should Rick ever read this ( hell will likely freeze over first ), he may wretch until he lapses into a coma. Still, being the Wakeman fan I am and always will be, I hope he can forgive me.

sherriff_johnbrown

03-13-2005, 03:28 PM

Exactly. It's a good album, to say the least, but for me Rick nailed it on the head; I hate the way it was recorded unnaturally to come out as four 20 minute songs. On the live version of Ritual (in the Symphonic tour), I literally fell asleep during the part where Jon plays a whole bunch of world music drums. Give me a break. It's like Eddie Offord was out in the audience making a sign to stretch..."just play those drums for 10 or fifteen minutes, it makes you a real prog group!"

Or maybe they were just jamming. Either way, I was bored out of my wits. Same with the album. Something about it just feels unnatural to me. It doesn't flow like a Yes record normally does; it's like they were being pressured into making them all album length songs, like they planned it that way.

I don't take for granted the musicianship of Yes, like some people falsely stated. Yes are an incredible group of musicians, always moving, and always perfect. I myself actually play music; I actually can appreciate the advanced chord progressions and time changes and difficult keys and etc. and etc. Because I couldn't play them; but paostby was wrong in stating you have to make a better album yourself before you are qualified to appreciate music. As far as my musical taste goes, I listen to myself, and not those who are supposedly of musical rank to tell me what I like.

Basically, most of Tales rocks; it's very worthy as far as my standards go, but I dispise the way it was "tailored to fit the four sides of an album". I think that Yes is better than that.

sherriff_johnbrown

03-13-2005, 03:29 PM

This is a terrible, terrible thing to say. Music is something that touches the soul of everyone who cares to listen. What your implying is great music is created purely as subject matter for musicians and people who can read music to sit around and disect. Nothing can be further from the truth. Your implying you have to belong to what in your mind is obviously an elitist and superior group in order to qualify to listen and appreciate music.

I agree with you completely, Scaramouche (will you do the fan-dang-go), my post is sarcasm which conflicts with the statements paostby made. My sarcasm was attempting to illustrate your point, if you go back a few pages and see.

sherriff_johnbrown

03-13-2005, 03:33 PM

Now, if you read my post, it is sarcasm.

It's unnecessarily rude, snobbish, and exclusionary sarcasm and I think most here will agree.

Scaramouche

03-13-2005, 03:47 PM

Then I apologise for my post and getting on my high horse and all that junk, but I do feel quite passionatly on such subjects.

I'm gonna leave the post up there anyway because I feel it is worded beautifully and it's a real kick in the pants to those who may really be of that awful opinion.

They need their backsides taken back out of their heads and put back onto the top of their legs.

Scaramouche xx

sherriff_johnbrown

03-13-2005, 03:50 PM

No problem...

03-13-2005, 04:37 PM

I know what I've posted and I am changing nothing. My meaning hasn't been grasped, but, what can I do about it? I've explained it.

Aside from the silly name-calling, the reasoning of the opinions finally emerged. I asked for substantiation of a fact OR subjective opinion. Largely, that has happened, so I'm fine. I can also see who won't be inviting me to their birthday parties. :winknudge

sherriff_johnbrown

03-13-2005, 04:40 PM

Hahahahaha :lmao:

All is cool paostby :)

Cast Iron Leader

03-13-2005, 05:36 PM

I'm cunfused - in fact I think some people posting here are confused and need to get out and get more daylight, or read a bit less between lines and bit more factually and stop trying to battle into loosing corner. Like I assume poastby must have I have read most of articles written around release of 'Tales' and most of reviews also and include all of books looking back on Yes history. 'Tales' period was time when band had great freedom to write whatever they felt like and it was only later, after Rabin joined and success of 'Owner/90125' that record company pressure started to create just as successfull record. Certainly band who decorate studio to tastes, including cows and recreating shower/bath to get right sound, are not under pressure to create anything of any length by anybody. Reading facts tells me that real pressure came from within and not without and main reason behind length of songs was desire to create something more like symphony.

03-15-2005, 12:53 AM

Interview question to Jon Anderson:

Q) "But would Yes
write another piece as involved and complicated as
Topographic Oceans again?

A) "Oh yes I hope so,' said Jon. 'You see, to us it wasn't
that complicated. Steve and I had a basic cobweb of
ideas and we filled them up. We actually had a lot
more music than we finished up putting on the record.
As a piece of music we stand by it."

They had more music than they could fit on the record. That's from Jon Anderson and Steve Howe. The writers. As a piece of music, they stand by it.

yesyadda

03-15-2005, 02:45 AM

I listened to this puppy start to finish while on a long drive home Sunday. Actually, I took a detour just to hear the final 15 minutes of Ritual. I was filled with incredible emotions that evening. Tales is important to me, real to me, and makes me very happy. It honestly works, and I don't know why and I don't care. I'm not downplaying anyone's opinions, but the only thing that sways me is the music itself.

YESMAN90125

03-15-2005, 04:08 AM

YES Tales is kind of different
but thats one of the things that made it great
I was hooked on this the moment I heard it
the opening chants Revealing Science of God

the great "Ancient"

Nous sommes du Soleil
its just like ........Going Home

BrianD

03-15-2005, 04:43 AM

Let me state from the outset - I really like Tales - played it day after day when it was released and still try to get my regular fix.

I do however think that its an imperfect piece of work - probably a 4.5 on the scale - the weakness to me being mainly on The Remembering. I think that some of the melodies are weaker and a bit repetitive. I used to have trouble with The Ancient but not for a long time - now I think its outstanding.

The length - from a Steve Howe interview in 1974 ' We did a lot of music we didn't use on the finished album. I we'd have kept it on, it would all have been longer, which would have meant another album really. But that wasn't practical. we just tried to be selective.'

I did read somewhere that RSOG was originally 28 minutes, we know Ritual live is around 25 minutes.

I wonder what happened to the extra material that wasn't used?

Scaramouche

03-16-2005, 04:15 PM

I wonder what happened to the extra material that wasn't used?

I always like to think that material not used on one album, has probably ended up being fed into another album. Maybe Relayer or Going for the One.

I have been told that this is not the case, but I would like to keep this dream alive.

I can't stand the thought that somewhere out there, there is perfectly good classic Yes sounds from their heyday destined never to be listened to, destined to be lost in the mist of time.

Scaramouche xx

capnkrk

03-17-2005, 10:11 AM

It's unnecessarily rude, snobbish, and exclusionary sarcasm and I think most here will agree.

Can we please dispense with the kiddy playground crap and stay on topic?

sherriff_johnbrown

03-17-2005, 06:49 PM

I'm afraid you came a bit late to give us a taste of your own kiddy playground crap. 'Tis a pity.

03-17-2005, 07:40 PM

There are two consensuses (is consensuses a word?), one general and one not as general but recurring, that I must take exception to:

1. The general consensus that Paul crossed the line in his characteristically sarcastic post, the type which generally make his posts fun to read, even when they're directed at me, into personal attack. I didn't see that, and I would hope that we have all become friendly enough with one another here to take these posts in the spirit in which they were clearly intended.

2. The idea that The Ancient isn't in the top two of Tales pieces completely escapes me. A lot of people seem to share this opinion. After RSoG, which is arguably the best piece of music recorded by anybody in 1973 (a banner year for music generally), The Ancient is the Tales piece that I find the most moving. Steve takes the listener on quite a journey on this one.

Maybe some of the Tales pieces could stand to have a couple minutes shaved off of them. The question then becomes which couple of minutes, and who's qualified to choose them? I'm personally not hearing the superfluous parts of the album. I say it all rules.

03-17-2005, 09:47 PM

Thanks, JL. It's a spirited debate. I don't use perjoratives, cursing, or any personal remarks. I'm not calling anyone an idiot or anything. It's great that all of us are passionate about our music. That's what great music does.

If anything, Yes is being insulted with their efforts being dismissed as a stopgap measure for lack of anything to do for 10 minutes. I'll let them decide that, but if anyone said that about MY music, we'd have some words!

And I agree about The Ancient. I've dissected that thing down to the note and what they did was simply brilliant. For structure, Ritual is the most simplistic. The Revealing is the most Ionic in structure. The Remembering is the most familiar. I can't even classify The Ancient. It's unique to Yes.

I would bet $$$ that if that ONE interview with Wakeman never happened, you wouldn't hear a lot of the comments of The Ancient. Ever notice how many of the negative comments use the same words? To me, that's very telling.

When the album came out, the concert came and went, and the time afterwards, we never knew The Ancient was "the bad song". No one did. It wasn't until years later and word of mouth about the interview spread. Not until the late '80s did it become relatively known. Too late in my opinion! :winknudge

yesyadda

03-17-2005, 11:20 PM

I've dissected that thing down to the note and what they did was simply brilliant. For structure, Ritual is the most simplistic. The Revealing is the most Ionic in structure. The Remembering is the most familiar. I can't even classify The Ancient. It's unique to Yes.
Wow. I don't know the physical aspects of music, but that comment rings true to me. Thanks. It kind of ties up loose ends for me.

allpurechance

03-19-2005, 04:14 AM

"I'm personally not hearing the superfluous parts of the album"-JL

Here you place your finger upon a most cogent point.It used to be that I,too heard the excess(es?).

Time has dealt a blow to the Topographic naysayers,however.Apologies to Rick Wakeman.Most especially in performance,Yes has repeatedly proved the worth of every nanosecond of Revealing,Ritual,and the Leaves Of Green conclusion to The Ancient.One suspects mightily that if the current band would do it,a live rendering of Tales in toto would result in emotions which one suspects equally mightily one is unable to express verbally.

Or to put it another way,lmaoOOOOOOOooo-I think I'd cry my eyes out with tears of joy,without shame(this has already occurred)!

Yes,time has been kind to Tales.If my own personal feelings about this album continue to change in the same manner as they have done over the past thirty years,by the time I reach senility(ok,this may already have occurred....),my opinion will be that it is the greatest work of music in human history(ok,this may already have occurred...).

Frank(loves Tales...)

allpurechance

03-19-2005, 04:29 AM

03-19-2005, 05:02 AM

"I'm personally not hearing the superfluous parts of the album"-JL

Here you place your finger upon a most cogent point.It used to be that I,too heard the excess(es?).

You miss my point Frank (a first; Frank usually understands me more than most people) I hear no excesses on Tales.

allpurechance

03-19-2005, 06:05 AM

You miss my point Frank (a first; Frank usually understands me more than most people) I hear no excesses on Tales.

Ah,John lol---I merely refer to the larger frames of reference here...lol...from Rick Wakeman's,to Rolling Stones magazine's(Tales From Pornographic Oceans my doopah!lmaoOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo),etc. - to the ambivalence expressed even right here with regard to this masterpiece.

I,too,was a doubter!lol---yet no more...

You,as usual,expressed yourself unambiguously and definitively,John.It was I who,as usual,lmaoOOOOO,created the ambiguity.

allpurechance

03-23-2005, 03:02 AM

With regard to this ambivalence...!LOL!---It seems to have been in place since the beginning...

At the same time as Rolling Stone was rendering it's(in our humble opinions...!)misguided judgement,if memory serves me clearly,Time magazine(ok,so they are NOT noted for their musical judgements,either...lmaoOOOo)named Tales one of the 5 best recordings of the year...(1974)...

Chefstarship

03-24-2005, 05:37 PM

I just listened to Tales in its entiretly this afternoon.

I was driving down Alligator Alley from Naples to Ft. Lauderdale, through the Everglades. It was late afternoon and the colors of the Everglades were subtle and beautiful. The tops of the tall marsh grasses gradiated from green to wheat brown to a tinge of red on the tips. Red, blooming bromeliad clusters had attached themselves throughout most of the trees along the highway. And the sun took about 40 minutes to set on the flat horizon. I watched it sink over the land from my rearview mirror. The emotion of Tales and the beauty of the rich Everglades made this one of the most amazing drives of my life. Infact, I had an emotional reaction to the entire experience and bawled my eyes out at one point. It was all so powerful.
Yes Shiela,Yes.I just spent a weekend in Chicago visiting my ailing brother.I needed a drive so I went out in no particular direction.I had one of the box set disks,and "The Revealing" came on after Close To the Edge and I just was lost in it.I`ve had the old record for years and hardly ever played it.I got a new Tales for Christmas and I`m really discovering it for the first time.Wonderful music.

03-24-2005, 05:56 PM

Excellent, Chef. I kind of envy you having a "new" album!

I still can't understand how fans of Yes can not take this album seriously. It's their only double album. It's monumental in scope alone.

Of all people, fans of Yes should be the first to go out of their way to accept this release as a legitimate effort and open themselves to it's contents.

I don't like some things by Yes, for sure. But, I gave them ALL the same effort. I always assume that I am wrong if I don't like something. Then, I go out of my way to make sure.

Way to go, Chef.

sherriff_johnbrown

03-24-2005, 06:14 PM

Just clearing things up, I actually like Tales. But I don't find it even close to being as good as Fragile, Close To the Edge, or Relayer, and I say it's overrated. But it's good :).

Amy

03-24-2005, 08:33 PM

Just clearing things up, I actually like Tales. But I don't find it even close to being as good as Fragile, Close To the Edge, or Relayer, and I say it's overrated. But it's good :).
I find that it's really in a different category altogether. I really find it hard to compare it to anything else Yes. It's just such a separate entity. I think if you listen to it more....maybe a lot more...you'll find that it's right up there with Relayer...then again, maybe you won't. With that said, I wouldn't compare it to Relayer either. They're just on the same level of greatness to me.

Trooper Jim

03-25-2005, 04:14 AM

Hey, you're going to get a lot of replies to this one, man! I too am one of the many adorers of Tales and loved it - all of it - the very first time I heard it, over 30 years ago.

The album has an incredibly powerful theme running right through it, like nothing else I have ever heard. Do give it a chance and listen from start to finish, because the 4 parts do flow together. A story only makes sense when heard from start to finish - so with the story of the Topographic Ocean, which we all have a part to play in.

By the way, I'm listening to Union in the CD drive right now as I write this, and love it!
By the time Union was made, Yes were a very different band to the one that recorded TFTO; the original elements are all still there, but the chemistry is very different.

All the best,

TJ

Rocksurfer

04-18-2005, 01:31 PM

They are all 5's.

crotale2112

04-22-2005, 07:07 PM

Tales is one of the most important yes albums ever made.... Being able to make that kind of music, having only four songs for a double album is beautiful to me. Knowing atlantic records had the belief and confidence that there is an audience out there who have the intelligence and desire to hear this kind of music warms my heart to this day.

Tales was my first yes album. I do have a soft spot for it aswell. They say you should never judge a book by it's cover but with tales I did. It was the cover that sold me at the time.Knowing there were only four songs, I knew what I was getting myself into.It took some time to get to know it, and now it's one of my favorite yes albums.
People always ask me "what is your favorite yessong?" and I always tell them it's a tie between the revealing science of god and awaken. Two of the most poweful songs ever recorded.
Thank god jon got caught up in the lengthy footnotes of paramhansa yoganada's autobiography of a yogi.And yet most important....we should not forget the song that has been left to us to hear.The knowledge of god is a search.Constant and clear.

Tales from topographic oceans....A masterpiece of music and lyrical content.
:worm:

Joe

04-22-2005, 08:50 PM

This was a time long ago, when YES said........Hey..........look what we can do with music! Your gonna dig it! "I know I did"!

fovman

06-10-2005, 02:00 AM

yesyadda

06-10-2005, 06:10 AM

I never knew that! Will have to check my album cover. Cool!

fovman

06-10-2005, 06:48 AM

I never knew that! Will have to check my album cover. Cool!

I first noticed it from my big poster......but you can see it in the picture at the beginning of this thread even though it is small and scanned.

Steve St Thomas

06-10-2005, 08:53 AM

I was in the ''Give it a 3'' rating. I appreciate all the work put into it, and the time. On the other hand, it doesn't always work for me throughout the whole album. I just think Close To The Edge and Gates of Delirium are much stronger pieces, but I rank Ritual right up there with them. I think Ritual is the high watermark of Topographic, to me it sounds the most integrated ''band'' composition on there, everyone steps up to the plate on that song. It also sounds to me like the piece that moves from section to section gracefully and with purpose. Would love to see an orchestra tackle it.

smatt

06-10-2005, 11:18 PM

Does anyone notice the word that Roger Dean wrote in the terrain below the pyramid on the cover of Tales from Topographic Oceans?

It describes what type of pyramid it is.....

word = STEP

A step pyramid or ziggurat.............An Incan/Aztec or Mesopotamian design.

You know on the Yes Summer/fall US tour last year I had the pleasure of seeing the Dean Exibit in San Francisco. I was amzed at the detail in the original album cover paintings. There's so much there that you don't see on the covers themselves. It was incredible acutally......

MoonGateClimber

06-10-2005, 11:27 PM

Does anyone notice the word that Roger Dean wrote in the terrain below the pyramid on the cover of Tales from Topographic Oceans?

It describes what type of pyramid it is.....

word = STEP

A step pyramid or ziggurat.............An Incan/Aztec or Mesopotamian design.
Have you also noticed that on all of the album covers that Dean designed there is a path... Some times its really hidden well, or just a little peace of a path, like on Tales - it's on the rock on the right edge of the cover.
Sorry, just a little peace of useless information! ;)

Amy

06-10-2005, 11:37 PM

Cool, I never noticed the word Step or the path. I must spend some time looking at the artwork.

fovman

06-10-2005, 11:47 PM

I could also swear that some of the rocks have faces on them... ?

smatt

06-10-2005, 11:51 PM

I find that the jpegs on his site are far more detailed than the album covers as well....

fovman

06-10-2005, 11:57 PM

You know on the Yes Summer/fall US tour last year I had the pleasure of seeing the Dean Exibit in San Francisco. I was amzed at the detail in the original album cover paintings. There's so much there that you don't see on the covers themselves. It was incredible acutally......

Yes Roger Dean is a talent. I own several autographed prints. The detail is extreme and the colors are bold and contrasting. They are a wonder to study up close. He used ink pens on these. (and must have used a magnifying glass for detailing)

Roger Dean autographed prints:
(2) Yes Square-chop Dragonflies i & iii
(2) Asia Eyes i & iii
(2) 35th Anniversary ~yes~ logos i & iii

framed posters:
* Tales from Topographic Oceans
* Blue Desert (ABWH)

P.S. I was fantasizing about being at that Roger Dean art exhibit
....one day I will make it to see his originals up close.

vivafra

06-27-2005, 05:56 PM

I vote 5 because TFTO is really amazing! it's the best album after CTTE!

Andy56

06-27-2005, 07:05 PM

Does anyone notice the word that Roger Dean wrote in the terrain below the pyramid on the cover of Tales from Topographic Oceans?
It describes what type of pyramid it is.....
word = STEP
I see what you mean but its actually an image from the plains of Nazca in Peru, I think its a monkey. However if you look on the cliff face in the distance (on the back cover), there is a marking something like the 'Interdimensional Reality Machine' from the Magnification and Symphonic Yes covers, which means that the image took 30 years to reappear on a Yes Album cover (albeit not a Dean cover).

Dean's book Views says that the rocks are based on English landmarks: "Brimham Rocks, The Last Rocks at Land's End, and single stones from Avebury and Stonehenge. John Anderson wanted the Mayan temple at Chichen Itza with the sun behind it, and Alan White suggested using markings from the plain of Nazca. The result is a somewhat incongruous mixture, but effective nonetheless"

Interestingly the 'bubble' surrounding the fish isn't in the version in the book and I've often wondered why.

Oh, and musically it's a 5 all the way in my opinion - there's simply nothing else like it on the planet.

Andy

fovman

07-01-2005, 03:57 AM

I see what you mean but its actually an image from the plains of Nazca in Peru, I think its a monkey. However if you look on the cliff face in the distance (on the back cover), there is a marking something like the 'Interdimensional Reality Machine' from the Magnification and Symphonic Yes covers, which means that the image took 30 years to reappear on a Yes Album cover (albeit not a Dean cover).

Dean's book Views says that the rocks are based on English landmarks: "Brimham Rocks, The Last Rocks at Land's End, and single stones from Avebury and Stonehenge. John Anderson wanted the Mayan temple at Chichen Itza with the sun behind it, and Alan White suggested using markings from the plain of Nazca. The result is a somewhat incongruous mixture, but effective nonetheless"

Interestingly the 'bubble' surrounding the fish isn't in the version in the book and I've often wondered why.

Oh, and musically it's a 5 all the way in my opinion - there's simply nothing else like it on the planet.

Andy

Roger Dean reworked Topographic Oceans......he also expanded the color shades in the sky up from the horizon (blue, green, brown) .....less black...more balance.

Stevehoweworshipu!

07-01-2005, 08:50 AM

Its so damn epic...(tears)...
(revisiting of 'Heart Of The Sunrise' Keyboard in 1st side of album......tears)

Nes

07-01-2005, 09:55 AM

For dean's reworking, I think it looks better. He got rid of those damn trails of white whatever near the fish..

Also, the horizon looks much better

As for the album, I still love it.

Albedo

07-01-2005, 01:13 PM

I gave it a 4. It took me about 15 years to appreciate the album as a whole. I still have trouble with the Ancient.

I think the Rhino rerelease sounds much better than my older copy and I love playing through the whole album now.

shortexchanges

07-01-2005, 04:21 PM

Tales should have been edited into a true masterpiece. I think there is 55 minutes of pure magic and 25 minutes of bloated filler. Tales is on par with the epic masterpieces from the band strongest point in thier history 71 through 76. Ritual remix is excellent.

Sheerah

02-11-2006, 11:59 AM

I just listened to Tales in its entiretly this afternoon.

I was driving down Alligator Alley from Naples to Ft. Lauderdale, through the Everglades. It was late afternoon and the colors of the Everglades were subtle and beautiful. The tops of the tall marsh grasses gradiated from green to wheat brown to a tinge of red on the tips. Red, blooming bromeliad clusters had attached themselves throughout most of the trees along the highway. And the sun took about 40 minutes to set on the flat horizon. I watched it sink over the land from my rearview mirror. The emotion of Tales and the beauty of the rich Everglades made this one of the most amazing drives of my life. Infact, I had an emotional reaction to the entire experience and bawled my eyes out at one point. It was all so powerful.

Well, it's that time of year again. In a few weeks I'll be leaving for Florida. I will indeed be driving down Alligator Alley. I think that this year I'll bring along Relayer for the trip.

highaltitude

02-11-2006, 12:59 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/bobthesalesclerk/Tales.jpg

I've just bought it yesterday, and given it one, not too serious listen so far. I'm not too impressed by now, I just think it involves a few more listens to really get into....

It is the definitely the best album to me.
It was for me too a kind of fall in Listen & Love at first sight.
Since I was teenager till now, it has always been present in my life in many ways.
The best moment I've found to hear it is after climbing, in the summits (the highest I've heard was over 20.000 ft.a.s.l.). :yesbird:

pedro skychaser

02-11-2006, 02:56 PM

You know on the Yes Summer/fall US tour last year I had the pleasure of seeing the Dean Exibit in San Francisco. I was amzed at the detail in the original album cover paintings. There's so much there that you don't see on the covers themselves. It was incredible acutally......

@ gig gallery,glebe,sydney was astonished to behold original YESSHOWS image....beyond the cropping of the album cover,top left hand cover is a small hole with the real sky beyond....all the cover we see is only in a cave of some sort...talk about a loss of perspective,i literally felt my knees tremble(generally a good feeling!!!!!!!!!!)

its a universal fact that rocks can float

Earl Grey

02-11-2006, 06:26 PM

No 'TALES' cover at the SF art showing though...

'Drama' was there (At least DRAMA was somewhere! *sigh*), I stood in front of the original RELAYER painting long enough to realize that a litho doesn't do it justice...

"C'mon Url, our plane leaves in an hour, you keep standing there, staring..."

You can own the original RELAYER for $1,000,000.00. Not bad. :dog:

I have yet to see the original painting of TALES.

EG

hailhail

02-21-2006, 11:37 AM

Once you get right into this album you will find yourself chanting the mantra

" LIVE SYMPHONIC TALES
ALL I WANT NOW IS
LIVE SYMPHONIC TALES"

Not a wasted momment on two beautiful pieces of vinyl
Not a wasted momment on two beautiful cds
Not a wasted momment momment in your life spent listening to this beautiful,enthralling,exciting and uplifting piece of music
Said it before ,will say it again
perfect concept,perfect band and perfect timing.

:theband: :harp:

RickyG

02-21-2006, 11:49 AM

south_side

10-25-2006, 05:24 PM

My issue with Tales is the same as Rick's. Too much "padding." The stuff on Tales that's good is REALLY good, but it's inconsistent. I understand what Jon in particular was trying to accomplish with Tales, but in my opinion it was only successful in parts. Parts of the album were brilliant, parts of it were just overblown and overdone. It's the same problem I've run across with a lot of "double" albums from the time (including Pink Floyd's The Wall)..not enough music to go with the words. It's what happens when you get a big ego (as much as I love Jon, you know that played a LITTLE bit into this..as it definitely had something to do with Roger's approach to The Wall). That said, Tales was a landmark album in many ways. Just not in my Top 5.

south_side

10-25-2006, 05:26 PM

One other thing..Tales was definitely the best Yes album cover.

The Ancient

12-11-2006, 10:26 AM

I kind of envy you haveing a great experience ahead. I got it when it was brand new. And I love it more now than I did when I heard it first. My first reactions were:

1. Not rocking enough
2. Too messy structured
3, But enough great moments to give it new spins

I understand this is one of Wakeman's grudges against the album. CTTE, especially the title track, was like an old fashioned symphony with Overture - 1. movement - 2. movement (slight variation of the first) - 3. movement (slow - new theme) - 4. movement incl. finale.
'Tales' on the other hand is all over the place which must have irritated Rick immensely. Too me it's now part of the charm, you never quite know after years of listening, whats coming next. Excellent.

Padding is a word I've heard a lot about Tales. Probably ment to describe the mellotron parts on LP side 2. I love it. Gives you a break in between all the georgous bits and pieces that 'The Remembering' consists of. A really relaxing piece of music, and my preferred way of winding down when I get home from a party, still not ready for bed.