The Musical Contributions of Trevor Rabin to Yes

[Q]

This thread is intended as a place where Trevor Rabin may be discussed as a musician, not as a cultural influence or mis-step or whatever else a basher might wish to call him. The idea is to TALK ABOUT THE MUSIC, and to do so in an objective and articulate fashion. Negative or dissenting opinions ARE WELCOME, but please keep them objective and articulate!

The post below is copied from another thread. Sorry if it is a repeat for you.

1) Rabin's mastery of the acoustic guitar is his closest parallel to the work of Howe. Interestingly, the two share a common influence in country, both brilliant in their application of "chicken scratch" riffs (Howe in his solos and in "Disillusion," Rabin in the middle section of "Solly's Beard" in some live recordings);

2) Rabin's obvious John McLaughlin influence often overshadows his ability to work in the abstract mode of Miles Davis or John Coltrane, evidenced in his rhythmic and melodic departures in "Shoot High Aim Low" and other repeating structures in 80s Yes; he frequently introduces polyrhythm by intentionally varying tempo against the rhythm section to great effect ("Big Generator") and it should be pointed out that this is completely counter to pop convention of that era;

3) Rabin strove with every album to introduce a blending of musical forms (the use of reggae in "Saving My Heart," which Jon followed up on in The Ladder's "The Messenger"; the "Indian" tone of "Final Eyes"; the Latin flavor of "I'm Running");

4) Rabin extended melodic counterpoint between guitar and keyboard in a manner on a par with "classic" Yes in a number of 80s songs, in particular "Final Eyes" and "Shoot High Aim Low" - note that this is not a defense of those melodies against "Roundabout" et al, merely a citing of brilliantly-employed counterpoint;

5) Rhythm-as-melody, a Yes tradition established by Bruford but carried on thru the Rabin years, reached its pinnacle with Rabin. The decision to use voices as instruments in percussive roles in "Leave It" was Rabin's, and the piece was arranged by him; this extended not only Bruford's original concept but heavily and effectively utilized Anderson's voice-as-instrument motif;

6) I have waited until now to cite Rabin's mastery of the electric guitar, to stress his other musical contributions. It is important to note that skill in this area is easy to come by and the catalog of cliches is now deep. The best cite in Rabin's use of the instrument must be his ability to innovate and blend his work with that of others (which few rock guitarists do effectively); the harnessing of the neo-classical "walking" arpeggios in the extended intro to "Lift Me Up" to a string line is a good example; the staggered fifths in his "Big Generator" parts (and to a limited degree in his OOALH solo) extend the work of Eddie Van Halen;

7) Rabin's comfort in shifting meter, a classic Yes tradition, is evidenced in the openings of both "Miracle of Life" and "Endless Dream"; his ability to write innovative harmonic vocal parts, even against such shifting rhythms, is demonstrated in the former. His creative application of dissonance is shown in the latter. As a piece of arrangement, "Endless Dream" is easily Rabin's most complex piece of Yes work, and structurally it lacks the depth of CTTE but is on a par with the framework of G.O.D. (though it is sonically and thematically very different)

8) Rabin is the leading innovator, classic Yes or no, in the use of vocal counterpoint, though Squire clearly has generated many meaningful instances as well.

and a few more items ...

My own feeling is that Rabin is a competent lyricist, moreso than his contemporaries in Boston/Journey/Foreigner. I think his lyrical work on "Can't Look Away" is at times inspiring and at times heart-rending. But I think his best lyrical work with Yes was unquestionably shown when writing with Jon or Chris as partner ("Real Love," "Lift Me Up," "Endless Dream," etc) and his best work apart from them was the lyric to "Miracle of Life."

I am more inclined to defend him as an accomplished composer, citing his runaway success in soundtracks as evidence that he is far more than competent in the mechanics of the art and citing within the context of Yes his desire to blend forms and make unusual choices in arrangement and counterpoint:
the intro to "Rhythm of Love," which you cited;
the structure of "I'm Running;"
the shifting meter pattern in "Miracle of Life;"
the compositional variety in tone and structure across 90125;
the vocal arrangements of "Leave It"
the structural intricacy of "Endless Dream" and its metric variety;
Trevor's use of his own voice to serve the function of Howe's melodic lines, underscoring and platforming Jon's vocal at key points in various songs, as in "Changes," "Lift Me Up"

Anyone care to jump in?

[nightliner]

I am not a musician, so I cannot add anything to the intelligent comments all ready posted. But I would like to thank him for bringing Yes back together. Granted the band was to be called Cinema, but I feel if he had not gotten together with Chris and Alan, we would not be looking forward to a Yes tour this summer.

[RobAdams]

Isn't SOLLY'S BEARD a lovely piece of music?

[nightliner]

Yes it is. There is an excellant version of it on the Union cd that Tim has given away, and I might be.

[Neverthirst]

I've been a huge fan of Solly's Beard since I first saw it live on the Big Gen tour. I have heard many different performances, and hearing them together, back to back is quite telling. The man is incredible. The extent to which he improvises and toys around within the basic structure of the song so effortlessly is quite a tribute to his talent. always the same tune, yet never played the same twice. Incredible.

[Jackaranda]

Quantum makes many excellent and valid points. Rabin not only is a great guitarist, but he also excells in his songwriting ability, his arrangements, and production. Multi-talented is an understatement. Let us also not forget the man can sing, and let us not forget too that TR played the majority of keyboards on the three albums he was fully a part of, although on Talk he actually wanted Wakeman in the band, with Kaye as the second keyboard player, which unfortunately did not happen.

The critics of Rabin are misguided in their criticisms. Rabin did not 'join' Yes, he helped form Cinema, which became Yes. Remember, all Steve Howe fans, and I'm a Howe fan also, that Steve was in Asia when Yes evolved from Cinema. Also remember that TR was chosen by Squire and White at a time when they basically could have had anyone they wanted. And when Jon first heard the tapes of the nearly completed 90125, he is on record as saying that the music was "exactly right".

I personally hope he comes back, not to "take over" but to breathe new life into our favorite band.

[Q]

The one thing we could count on if Rabin/Wakeman come aboard, Jack, is that we'd see something we've never seen before! That's what I'm hoping for - but I'm going to love the show, whatever they end up doing ...

[Jackaranda]

We totally agree, Q. A Rabin/Wakeman line-up, with or without Howe, would be my dream come true for this tour and hopefully for an album or two. I've never said get rid of Steve, just get Rabin back and/or a new contributor(s) with some brilliant ideas to renew Yes music. After all, we are talking about a PROGRESSIVE band, not a band we want to see live in the past or just stagnate, which will ultimately be the end. And I'm afraid the end is near.

[Neverthirst]

indeed, Jack and Q.

and along those same lines ...

elsewhere in the forum, a Trooper fan wrote critically of Rabin leading Yes away from 'classic' Yes format. that idea, i feel was successfully refuted, but it also brought to my mind what Rabin contributed to the Yes format, and I thought I'd bring those thoughts here. I feel that any examination of the Rabin-Era albums will reveal a format unique and praiseworthy in its own right.

now, of course, i should begin by acknowledging that the 'pop' Yes stuff is not far from standard and unchallenging in its format. meaning that most ear candy one hears on the radio is

verse
chorus
verse
chorus
bridge
verse
chorus
blah, blah, blah .... in the simplest possible time signatures.

The first thing the bashers reading this thread will do is start a list of Yeswest songs that have simple formats. so i'll just go ahead and concede that there are some. woo hoo. big deal. there aren't that many, and even the ones that are simple formats have redeeming originality.

So with that outta the way, I would like to suggest that Yeswest enjoyed quite a few very unique and interesting formats. Sure, not the Yestrooper style, but very worthy.

how about CHANGES? that's a pattern with a lot to keep up with.

Shoot High, Aim Low
Final Eyes
I'm Running

what about MIRACLE OF LIFE, even though its a union song.

and the dynamically breathtaking I AM WAITING

the spiritually adventurous movements of ENDLESS DREAM

Sure Yesfans ... OWNER, LEAVE IT, RYTHYM OF LOVE, and so forth aren't groundbreaking formats, but even these are dynamically redeeming.

the bashers would say that Yeswest abandoned the 'sacred' classic Yeswest format. Fine. i respect that they love that format ... i do too.

I say Yeswest was bold and daring. I say they had there own somewhat liberated/freestyle format. I say they made there own path.

What say you, yesfan?

[Q]

The spillover in song construction goes deeply, both directions. Any Trooper fan who tries to argue against the simplicity of the YesWest song structures is going to run aground against OYE and The Ladder; and YesWest's more complicated material leaves those structures very far behind. Miles and miles between them: "Endless Dream" is a musical ocean away from "Love Will Find a Way" ... "Miracle of Life" is nowhere near "Walls" ... and by the same token, "And You and I" has nothing at all in common with "Man in the Moon" ... "Awaken" is a universe apart from "If Only You Knew."

Q

[bjm0rwo]

Originally posted by jack gowen
[B I've never said get rid of Steve, just get Rabin back and/or a new contributor(s) with some brilliant ideas to renew Yes music. After all, we are talking about a PROGRESSIVE band, not a band we want to see live in the past or just stagnate, which will ultimately be the end. And I'm afraid the end is near. [/B] I thought that they did come up with an idea that was fresh and progressive with Magnification.Although I know that it is inevitable that changes will be made with the line-up (their family tree proves this out!),I was happy to hear that they finally tried not to capture that Yeswest sound with their latest cd.I am game to have Rabin/Wakeman come aboard to add to the continuing story of Yes whether it be a tour or to follow it up with a recording.And I do feel that the end is near.So anything to inspire the band to continue pumping out cd's is a plus.But this might just be my denial that all this will come to an end someday.Am I being selfish? You bet!

[Steve St Thomas]

The points that Q brought up were extremely refreshing to read [especially the nod to John McLaughlin, who was definitely an influence on Rabin].

The only disagreement I have is with the guitar solos being cliches, because of time.

I have often watched Steve Howe, and felt the same about HIS solos! No offense intended, but once you figure out what Howe mainly does, he rarely changes from that. Yes he's versed in Country, Classical, Blues, Jazz, etc. But honestly, I sometimes get the feeling watching him play, that I've seen him do it all before. I really noticed this watching a vid from the UNION tour, and also from Symphonic YES. On the UNION vid, it was a great piece of playing, don't get me wrong, but honestly, when Rabin played his own solo, I heard magic. Maybe that's personal taste, but I honestly watched both performances and was more impressed by the ''amount'' of effort that was put in to each solo segment. And Rabin was 'on' fire. No matter how many cliches abound, I often feel Howe has become a cliche of himself, and hasn't done anything really new or stretched himself in years. To me, the only time era he seemed to change a bit, were for DRAMA and ASIA. Less playing, more band interaction.

When I think of how PARALLELS could have sounded if it were left on FISH OUT OF WATER, and the version that exists on GOING FOR THE ONE, where Mr. Howe, with all due respect, just never seems to shut up[!], soloing throughout the song to the point where you wonder if anyone else was in the studio at the time to stop him ;), is where Rabin always comes up #1 for me. Because the man has taste, and style. He doesn't put a solo in there if it isn't needed. He's sparing with what embellishments are added, and I've never heard him err once in this judgement. He's far more interested in THE SONG to my ears, and I think this shows so much in his solo career, his movie soundtrack work (and BOOST ME from Armageddon is amazing), and his years with YES.

What also interests me about Trevor Rabin, is how ''current'' he is in his musical tastes. He incorporated so much into the YES framework, like Hip-Hop, Heavy Metal, Latin, the pre-existing Classical, India, and if he was given the chance he would've added African as well. To me, this is what Jon Anderson has been trying to do for years, with less successful results, only because as a musician, he's not as talented as Rabin. There are so many things Rabin could have done with YES, without the YES moniker being a curse as well as a blessing. His solo albums, from track to track are so diverse in musical styles in genres, I'm not sure why he always gets associated with FOREIGNER. Maybe somebody has different FOREIGNER albums than I do, but the only song I ever heard that sounded like Foreigner could have done it from Rabin's pen, was I Didn't Think It Would Last from his 1989 solo LP Can't Look Away. There is nothing else on that album that even remotely resembles Lou Gramm & Chums.

His WOLF album is an easy target for most to say YES deserved better, but its definitely the wrong album to judge Rabin's talents on. The album was definitely a push to get Rabin noticed, and certainly having Ray Davies (The Kinks) co-produce it was a step in that direction. The album is geared to tone down at least 50% of Rabin's talent, and all you have to do is step back a few albums in his catalogue to see why Squire & White thought he had something. The guy was melding Disco with Hard Rock on one song, and then totally incorporating Classical into New Wave Punk into another. WOLF is barely representational of what Rabin had in him. You just have to go back to what is called BEGINNINGS now, or FACE TO FACE, or even go back to his Rabbit days, and you'll see and hear how talented this guy truly is.

Rabin's (along with Squire / Bruford / Kaye / White) one of the main reasons I have absolutely loved YES for over 25 years. And my heart sank a little when he left, because to me, YES after him has been back to the old drawing board, with just not much there to hold my interest. I've given each successive album a chance, but I just don't hear half the production quality, 1/3rd of the innovations, and a majority of diversity that YES enjoyed with Rabin.

And Anderson's back to his one-note sing it thing, which I honestly got bored with from 1973 onward. He has a really great sense of melody, but I don't think he's used it since Topographic.

[YESYOUANDI]

One riff----from the one riff womder.

Yes cannot be compromised.

Keep Yes, rabin free!!!

Cheers fans

[Jacaranda]

One riff----from the one riff womder.

Yes cannot be compromised.

Keep Yes, rabin free!!!

Cheers fans

You were the one who confronted Trevor about destroying Yes in the mens room at the Talk launch party, weren't you?

Anyhow, I remember a quote Trevor made a while back that raises a good point: How can you call making music fans expect you to make "progressive"? Isn't it really being "regressive"?

Nuff said

[ycantibu]

You rock, jacaranda.

[chungiemunchin]

In my opinion, Yes without Steve Howe is like The Beatles without George Harrison. So interweaved in Yes songs is Steve's original ideas and playing that, to me, without Steve, it is not the same band! Try to imagine 'A Day in the Life' without Ringo's drums in it.....I cannot. Ringo's drumming ideas was as much a part of The Beatles songs musically, as was the chords they used or the melody they sang. Such is the influence of one Steve Howe. Nope......if it had to be Rabin without Howe, I will choose Howe everytime. Now, Rabin AND Howe.....that might be something...

[About The Round]

Anyhow, I remember a quote Trevor made a while back that raises a good point: How can you call making music fans expect you to make "progressive"? Isn't it really being "regressive"?

Nuff said

Progressive rock can't be measured by what period of time the music has been orginated from, -but purely out of musical criterias. Hence music by John Dowland, Django Reijnhard or Steve Howe will be seen as classic material. Musically speaking Howe's music are not more advanced than Dowlands- but rather mirrors a different era with totally new influences and settings.

Trevor points at the Pop criterias, -In our out of fashion. Progressive rock has next to always been out of fashion – but not regressive, that's in my way of thinking: Punk rock. Punk rock is regressive by pointing back at the first outings in rock at all. That was the post-war dance-room scene when all the "decent" people went home to their mom and dads whilst the "naughty" ones danced "filthy" dances to the band who took their last rock'n roll hour for the night. Also as you know the lyrics were coded **** dirty language.

ATR (Who thinks Rabin is a great guitarist)

[relayeire]

Rabin is a multi-talented guy who contributed much to the Yes legacy and to music in general... I wish he would do more than soundtracks, though... a while back when he was interviewed by NFTE he said he was keen to do a rock album and tour... I'd love to see a solo Trevor show...

also, I think soundtracks are a great thing, but I wish he'd pick his movies better... it's all very commercial stuff, a lot of which I won't pay to see... he needs to get out of the Bay/Bruckheimer realm and do some Soderbergh and Gondry films...

[pianozach]

In my opinion, Yes without Steve Howe is like The Beatles without George Harrison. So interweaved in Yes songs is Steve's original ideas and playing that, to me, without Steve, it is not the same band! Try to imagine 'A Day in the Life' without Ringo's drums in it.....I cannot. Ringo's drumming ideas was as much a part of The Beatles songs musically, as was the chords they used or the melody they sang. Such is the influence of one Steve Howe. Nope......if it had to be Rabin without Howe, I will choose Howe everytime. Now, Rabin AND Howe.....that might be something...

Hey there Newbie!

I had to giggle at the thought of Steve Howe being referred to as Yes' Ringo.

But I know what you mean, and I agree - - - The songs are great, partly due to Steve's influences on the songs, both in the foregraound AND background, contrapuntally or otherwise.

So, I always find it interesting when a very old thread is revived. It's very likely that someone was simply browsing around and decided to add their two cents.

And in this case, it's interesting that Q, a formerly very vocal contributor, started the thread. According to his profile, he hasn't even visited for almost a year now. I miss his well constructed posts. Happy Thanksgiving, Q

[cinderella]

You rock, jacaranda.

I'll second that!

[Squireaholic]

* 'Jack and Q may be close to joining my unofficial list of Yesfans who need to limit their post lenths ;)

Anyway : I feel/think that Master Rabin's talents are worthy to Yes because:

-He brought Yes out of their doldrums and re- energized the 'family'.

Plain and simple. Best wishes to Trevor in all his pursuits,

[Awaken1976]

ATR (Who thinks Rabin is a great guitarist)

Pardon my ignorance but, what does "ATR" mean? And I think Rabin is a great guitarist. You wanna make something of it? lol....

[new_sum_do_solve_ay]

6) I have waited until now to cite Rabin's mastery of the electric guitar, to stress his other musical contributions. It is important to note that skill in this area is easy to come by and the catalog of cliches is now deep. The best cite in Rabin's use of the instrument must be his ability to innovate and blend his work with that of others (which few rock guitarists do effectively); the harnessing of the neo-classical "walking" arpeggios in the extended intro to "Lift Me Up" to a string line is a good example; the staggered fifths in his "Big Generator" parts (and to a limited degree in his OOALH solo) extend the work of Eddie Van Halen;

I was just appreciating the "Owner" solo yesterday with totally new ears. I have to say this was a whole new approach. I think comparing him to Eddie Van Halen is not quite right. Trevor's strength was in his TOTALLY new ideas and approaches. His stumming rhythms, his tonality. Just awesome!

[The Whale]

His contributions to yes music??? Lets see. Their still here, I'd say thats a big contribution. Listen to 90214 and see why this question should be Yes' contribution to Trevor Rabin. I love old school Yes as much as any one. Only one Trevor song even makes my top 10, but Yes would have died if it wern't for the PASSION and ENERGY that Yes leeched off of Trevor threw the 80's. For that I am so gratefull!

[Mc-Merc]

His contributions to yes music???

Let's see....

Mmmmm....

Er.......

Ahhhhhhhhhh.....

In musical terms or hair style?

[Sunhillow_]

All I can say about Trevor Rabin is that he was the catalytic element of Yes huge success in the 80's. The modern element, if you like. He used to be the one who writes the singles, the " hits". But his guitar playing is not that thing and he is not as creative as Steve Howe.

[pianozach]

Well, not only the three (four if you count Union) albums of great, and very different, Yes music, but the lingering legacy in the form of Open Your Eyes being attempt to assimilate his style as well.

[kirk]

WoW...almost 6 year old thread guys!

Rabin blew some much needed fresh air into the band.
'Nuff said.

K

[BRINGRABINBACK]

We're getting a Rabin release very often right now.
Rabin music is Rabin music - I love it.
If going back to rock slows down Rabin music production, forget it.
Getting new music out of YeS is like getting blood from a turnip. I don't have that kind of patience.
Whatever genre produces the most Rabin music is the one I'm for.

[RickyG]

WoW...almost 6 year old thread guys!

Rabin blew some much needed fresh air into the band.
'Nuff said.

K

It was an ill wind that he blew, for some of us.....

[RickyG]

We're getting a Rabin release very often right now.
Rabin music is Rabin music - I love it.
If going back to rock slows down Rabin music production, forget it.
Getting new music out of YeS is like getting blood from a turnip. I don't have that kind of patience.
Whatever genre produces the most Rabin music is the one I'm for.

It's not fair or accurate to compare one man's solo output where it is relatively easier to be in general alignment with oneself, - not fair to compare that with a group of five individuals who need to be in a five point geometrically multi-dimensional alignment in order to produce albums.

More accurate would be to compare to Howe's output, or Anderson's output, or Wakeman's output, or even White's output of recent years. And even Squire's of 2007/2008, plus his Syn work.

Taken together they have been putting out quite alot.

[kirk]

It was an ill wind that he blew, for some of us.....

At the time'a, the thing barely had a pulse...

I'm in the same space Rich, sitting cross-legged, Nag Champa
circling, meditating heavy on TFTO, GFTO...

N A M A S T E

Kirk

[RickyG]

At the time'a, the thing barely had a pulse...

I'm in the same space Rich, sitting cross-legged, Nag Champa
circling, meditating heavy on TFTO, GFTO...

N A M A S T E

Kirk

I guess I am that obvious, huh? :note: :hippy: :Peace!: :note:

[relayer_1]

Trevor revitalized the band's concept at a very critical time in Yes history; his fresh and innovative ideas were the foundation of an energetic and vibrant era that not only incorporated the traditional Yes harmonies with new guitar and keyboard textures but also opened new horizons into a brand new landscape in Yes culture.

Indeed, it may have sounded commercial and poppy, but Trevor's creative power was strongly present specially on 90125. Like with most creative forces, there is a time when it flourishes the most, and that time was the mid to late 80's when Trevor was with YES. It was so strong that this is what motivated Jon's return to the band.

Thanks Trevor, God speed in your musical endeavors!

[Hawkingsminddrive]

You were the one who confronted Trevor about destroying Yes in the mens room at the Talk launch party, weren't you?

Anyhow, I remember a quote Trevor made a while back that raises a good point: How can you call making music fans expect you to make "progressive"? Isn't it really being "regressive"?

Nuff said

:appl[1]:

Anyone who thinks Trevor "destroyed" Yes is, to say the least, dead wrong. That's a stupid statement for anyone to make.

[relayeire]

he got Yes going again... but they would've started again by the mid-80s without him... I am glad for him and his years with Yes...

[Senor Mono]

he got Yes going again... but they would've started again by the mid-80s without him... I am glad for him and his years with Yes...

Both Trevors definitly gave them a push into the future. The main thing I love about Yes is all the quality, different era's of music. Them trying to repeat GFTO or CTTE would be regressive and not progressive. I like when their music takes a new turn. IMO:headset:

Hearts, I'm Running, Final Eyes, Lift Me Up, Real Love, Endless Dream- all stand up as Yes classics in my book. Right up next to CTTE, GOD, HOTS. Just a modern Yes flavor!