Big Generator - it's really not that bad... [Archive]

Nellsalot

10-03-2004, 11:48 PM

I just got a copy of Big Generator (along with Union, which I haven't listened to yet) because it was cheap. I hadn't gotten it before because I'd heard it called their worst album so many times. I've been listening to it these past couple days, I really don't see what's so bad about it! Obviously it's not a massive artistic achievement, but for Trevor Rabin-type music it's not bad. I find that "Rhythm of Love", "Love Will Find a Way" and the title track are seriously addictive. I'm enjoying listening to it. Maybe my standards for it are lower because I haven't heard 90125 (it's shipping from Amazon right now). Up 'till now I'd been resisting the '80s stuff out of some sort of loyalty to classic Yes, but the YesYears documentary was key in changing my mind. I now accept the '80s music for what it is; fun '80s pop music with some interesting twists. It's no worse than Asia, better in some ways really.

Is this one of those things where I had to "be there" to experience how bad it was when it came out, or took so long to come out? Like I don't think I could fully appreciate the pain of Drama unless I was there to witness the announcement of the Buggles collaboration. As someone who discovered Yes in the 2000s, I love Drama. I've heard that Big Generator is a weird mistake somewhere inbetween Trevor and Jon's visions but I'm not sure I quite see it, and I can usually see where lack of vision hurts music. Again, maybe I have low standards...

cinderella

10-04-2004, 12:13 AM

I love Big Generator, but of course I worship Trevor Rabin. My favorite Yes albums are the ones he was on and only the ones he was on.

I'll go stand in the corner now.

Faceintheplace

10-04-2004, 12:39 AM

I have the Japanese HDCD of Big Generator. Its not a bad little album at all, especially when you stack it up next to what mainstream rock had to offer in 1987. What really makes the album for me are "Final Eyes" and "I'm Running", its like the Yes version of Abbey Road. Great bass intro on "I'm Running" too, and the out chorus of "Final Eyes" is quite nice, "You saved me from falling..."
And of course "Love Will Find a Way" was a good single and "Shoot High Aim Low" is a good long track. I like 70s Yes most of all but I'm not ashamed to say I really like this album.

cinderella

10-04-2004, 12:44 AM

the out chorus of "Final Eyes" is quite nice, "You saved me from falling..."

That's goosebump time for me. Makes me weak in the knees. :valintine

Scheming Demon

10-04-2004, 02:57 AM

Its not a bad little album at all, especially when you stack it up next to what mainstream rock had to offer in 1987. That was a good year for the "non-mainstream" RUSH!
Hold Your Fire remains in my top three RUSH albums to this day.

umgekehrt

10-04-2004, 11:09 AM

Don't pay attention to people who are never satisfied with anything that Yes do since CTTE.

ANTIOCH

10-04-2004, 11:59 AM

I find it hard to criticize any YES release. They each offer something unique and there's always a gem hidden within. "Big Generator" has alot of great music on it, as does "Drama" - both of which are indeed part of the YES history and should be accepted as 'another golden release'.

pianozach

10-04-2004, 01:59 PM

Yow! Big Generator!

In retrospect, it seems much better than when it came out. I had to go back and sample it quickly to discover that it has aged rather well. All of the songs now seem to stand up quite nicely individually. Many of the songs have the niftiest introductions. Sure, it's very 'pop'py, but, boy it's wa-a-a-a-y better than a lot of the pop poo that tries to crawl out of my car radio nowadays.

I think the albums bad rap stemmed from several circumstances.

First of all, it was "THAT" line-up, the "NOT CLASSIC" line-up. Well, clap-trap. Jon and Rick had left the group, forcing the others to pursue other paths. First there was "Drama" (foreshadowing to 90125 if I've ever heard it). Then they all called it quits. Then Chris and Alan found Trevor, and things clicked. They grabbed old keyboardist Kaye to fill out the live look. Jon was pretty much an add-on. Eventually, they called it Yes. 90125 rejuvenated the group.

It wasn't "CLASSIC" Yes-style music either. Many thought that they had "SOLD OUT" their progressive roots. No, says I, they had simply pursued a non-Yes vibe, and mashed it into a pseudo-Yes mold. Trevor made minor adustments to the mostly completed tracks on 90125. Big Generator actually suffers a little from "Second Album Syndrome."

It didn't measure up to the monster breakthrough that 90125 promised. Hell, how could it?

And BG was stacked up against a very volatile music world and music industry. No, it wasn't like Bing Crosby singing "Hey Jude," but Yes were, to an extent, trying to re-invent themselves to fit a world whose musical tastes had apparently changed.

Nope, it's a nice little album. (The "Chez Nous" line still bothers me, though. And "Holy Lamb" seems out of place in this collection)

ycantibu

10-04-2004, 10:55 PM

Me too! Vive le Rabin!

I love Big Generator, but of course I worship Trevor Rabin. My favorite Yes albums are the ones he was on and only the ones he was on.

I'll go stand in the corner now.

Orbert

10-05-2004, 03:06 PM

I'll agree with you that "it's really not that bad". And of course you're absolutely right in saying that people's impressions of it will vary according to their own experiences, as with all things. Those of us who'd been with Yes since the 60's or 70's generally had some trouble with it, and its older sibling 90125. Those who discovered it later have the advantage of puting it into perspective with the rest of the Yes catalog. Most people agree that either way, it was better than nearly anything else on the radio at that point.

I still remember a night at my brother-in-law's house shortly after its release, smoking a little non-tobacco, and letting him play Big Generator all the way through. There were a few moments when I said "Hey, that's kinda cool". I'm not a big Rabin fan, but I did have 90125 on vinyl. After hearing BG and realizing they weren't going to "return to form", I never did pick it up. But I agree, "It's really not that bad."

Orbert

yarstruly

10-05-2004, 03:36 PM

I actually listened to it again yesterday....It has always been an album I have enjoyed....It also has the distinction of being the 1st Yes album I got immediately when it was released (I had several Yes albums already at that point)...It's all relative though...If i were top rank Yes albums, this would be near the bottom....Even the worst Yes albums are better than most band's best albums....

BTW I agree about "Hold Your Fire"...Great Rush Album, which I would actually rank higher than Big Generator....

Timmo

10-05-2004, 05:50 PM

I love Big Generator, but of course I worship Trevor Rabin. My favorite Yes albums are the ones he was on and only the ones he was on.

I'll go stand in the corner now.Are you saying that the only Yes albums you LIKE are the ones with Trevor, or the only ones that are YOUR FAVORITES?

Joedude

11-07-2004, 01:31 AM

I listened to this for the first time in a while last night. Except for Almost Like Love, I think the album has aged well. I'm Running is still one of my favorite Yes tunes, great bass line.

When it came out, I wanted to get it right away but I wanted to wait until the record store by my house got the "new" type of album called a CD. First CD I ever bought.

cinderella

11-07-2004, 01:48 AM

Are you saying that the only Yes albums you LIKE are the ones with Trevor, or the only ones that are YOUR FAVORITES?

MY FAVORITES. I like Fragile and Relayer, Tales and Close To The Edge also, but not as much as the ones with Trevor.

I'm standing in the corner Tim, what more do you want!! ;)

Scooty

11-07-2004, 02:04 AM

I'll go stand in the corner now.

Yes, Cinderelly....please do.

:stick: :lmao:

I kid cause I love...

Scoot

cinderella

11-07-2004, 02:12 AM

Hee hee. I wouldn't feel right if you weren't yelling at me about Trevor, Scoot! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Cinderella528/N99/Trishrazberry.gif

pianozach

11-17-2004, 06:47 AM

Nope, it's a nice little album. (The "Chez Nous" line still bothers me, though. )

Thanx for the bio info Cinderella

"Chez Nous" is a tribute to Alan White's roadie, Robert "Nu Nu" Whiting who cooked for Yes while they were recording Big Generator. Thus the line "Chez Nous." ~

Oh yeah, I've actually got Alan's "Ramshackled" and there's even a picture of "Nu Nu!"

It all makes sense now.

SonicDeath10

01-05-2005, 11:21 PM

i thought this album was a more artsy version of 90125. granted, i heard both twenty years after the fact of release: and besides, trevor always has some arty, weird thing going on in MOST of his songs. some songs are just two chords over and over (city of love, ugh) but usually he has some weird chord progression, or percussion thing, or a strange bass line, or unusual vocal arranger. very interesting musician.

cinderella

01-05-2005, 11:42 PM

Thanx for the bio info Cinderella

Oh yeah, I've actually got Alan's "Ramshackled" and there's even a picture of "Nu Nu!"

It all makes sense now.

You're welcome, Zach! After all.....I am a Rabinologist! <img src="http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/pinkglassesf.gif"><img src="http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/bokmal.gif">

smatt

01-06-2005, 12:00 AM

Jacaranda

01-12-2005, 01:21 AM

Don't be fooled Scooty is actually a Yes snob :lmao:

I, for one can see the brillance of this album, although it has it weak points, it certainly has it's value. SHAL is one of the best Yes West songs, no question in my mind about that.

I think SHAL is one of the best YES songs, as in their entire catalog of songs, any line-up. It's sad that 80's Yes gets this rap that it was all commercial music without soul and TR was the ringleader, which is a reason BG gets dumped on.

yesmandroc

01-12-2005, 01:46 AM

BG is one of my favorites. The only song I don't get into is Shoot High Aim Low. Final Eyes is very well put together. Great vocals on BG. Almost Like Love is just fun. Great album altogether.

satyam

01-12-2005, 07:56 AM

Big Generator was the albums that got me into Yes actually (18 years ago), and I loved it back then and it has stood the test of time, Shoot High Aim Low and Final Eyes are enough proof that the "Classic Yes" sound was not totally lost. It was the first Yes album I ever heard and bought. This and the fact that I am a fand of TR and TKaye so stop giving it such a hard time.
Just remember if TR had not been in Yes during the 80's and early 90's it is very possible that Yes would not be around today. Be thankful

rememberer

01-12-2005, 11:40 AM

I like BG. Seems kind of like an experimental phase they were at liberty to try after the success of 90125. Granted experiments can come out more than one way, but can't blame them for trying. And I generally like the results, even if they're more acquired Yes taste.

The first couple of times I played it and heard I'm Running and Almost Like Love, I thought, Oh geez what is this c**p, sounds like they're going to start singing "Age Of Aquarius" any second now aren't they? Mebbe I had a couple of beers or something, but one day I walked in the room in the middle of it and suddenly I just got it. Holy Lamb slid right by me, too, I was probably on the third listen when I sat up totally straight in my chair and said, Wow, what is THAT?!?!? SHAL caught my ear right from the shoddy sample at Amazon though, and that's when I ordered BG. Gotta hand it to a song that can do that, I'd think Gates Of Delirium were junk if I heard it as an Amazon sample.

For a long time I thought Big Generator was the dumbest title ever given an album, too... But after I finally saw the 9012Live DVD, it made perfect sense. It's pretty cool actually. I have few complaints with that period left now, nothing major.

Maybe it's not as ambitious in that department as Relayer, but I'd chalk it up BG as another Yes success in tying together diverse elements. It's a pity we don't see more weeds from that tour in circulation, that's most of what's left on my "wish list" now.

And what can I say about Trevor live? After the fact I could sit and compare the fine details of his playing on AYAI with Steve's, but the fact is if I'd gone to any of those shows I'd have probably gone with the expectation that I was never going to hear much classic Yes live again aside from Whitefish and maybe having a big noodle with Wurm (and in all fairness to Steve, the song works great that way). I'd have gone right through the roof to buy a ticket and find out Trevor and Tony were willing to give some of the tunes a go that they did, I do respect that a great deal.

yarstruly

01-12-2005, 12:46 PM

Excellent post rememberer....The BG tour was my 1st Yes show, and I have very fond memories of it! Trevor did a fine job playing Steve's tunes in his own way. He was at least willing to go for it. He will never play it just like Steve did or vice versa, but they had some nice arrangements of the Trooper era stuff that they chose to play...

jfuruno

01-12-2005, 12:53 PM

I love Big Generator, but of course I worship Trevor Rabin. My favorite Yes albums are the ones he was on and only the ones he was on.

I'll go stand in the corner now.

Ugh. And I thought some of the stuff on the politics threads were offensive.

yesmandroc

01-12-2005, 03:23 PM

CybrKhatru

01-12-2005, 05:38 PM

The BG tour in Los Angeles was my first Yes show, and although I was already getting into their 70s music, I did (and still do) like/love much of the 80s Yes.

It's expensive, but the Japanese HDCD of Big Generator MUST be heard to be believed...it sounds light years better than the US CD. When will this get the Rhino treatment?

--Matt, kinda tired of buying Japanese imports to satisfy his hunger for improved sound...

SonicDeath10

01-12-2005, 10:50 PM

i just listened to big generator and it always sounds better each time i hear it. i don't hear bland commercial rock: i hear a creative band, with a creative (albeit not as genius like as jon) leader, coming up with 8 interesting and well arranged songs with great riffs and vocal melodies. shoot high aim low sounds like something yes would have done around tales, but of course in the context of a longer epic.

and the rest of the songs are all very well written, and in some cases punchy. big generator, the song, might be a slight rip of owner of a lonely heart but i actually think ti's better!

smatt

01-13-2005, 12:59 AM

Hmm, I've always liked BG. It's certainly not CTTE, but it doesn't suck either. That's my opinion though. SHAL is one of, if not my favorite Rabin song for sure. It has everything I think a great yes song needs........

Timmo

01-13-2005, 02:05 AM

Yes it is. Really that bad.

Except for "Shoot High, Aim Low." The best Rabin-era tune ever.

yesmandroc

01-13-2005, 02:08 AM

Ok, seriously. Why does everyone love Shoot High Aim Low so much?

Scooty

01-13-2005, 04:11 AM

Shoot High Aim Low has fantastic elements of Yesmusic. Its dramatic, it has a great build up, brilliant musicianship,awesome counterpoint, cool lyrics ( I love how TR and Jon trade lines). It has all of the rightness going for it..and none of the crapolaness that most of the rest of the album represents to me. I also enjoy Im Running (sorry Cinderelly) but it is a cool Christopher bass line..

Other than THAT..this album was the biggest dissapointment to me ever, next to Invisible Touch..thats another story..

Nellsalot

01-13-2005, 04:58 AM

Am I really the only one here who totally sucks and likes "Love Will Find a Way"? I think it's partially because the video is so entertaining to me for some reason. It might have to do with Jon's strange little guitar that looks like a crystal from an '80s fantasy movie that someone stuck a neck and strings on. I want one.

"Shoot High" is very neato, but I wouldn't really say it's the greatest thing ever or anything like that, y'know wha'm saying?

Scooty

01-13-2005, 05:00 AM

Ok Nell..
I will give you that the video for Love Will Find A Way is a hoot..

Chris looks like he is having fun..being the ham that he is..

Jon's guitar..LOOOOOOL I totally forgot...it is insane..!!

Love Will Find A Way has always been a guilty pleasure..
damn you for making me say that!!...;)

Jori

01-13-2005, 09:00 AM

...

Other than THAT..this album was the biggest dissapointment to me ever, next to Invisible Touch..thats another story..

Nononoooo..! It's not fair to compare BG with that awful album. :crybby: I'll have to go and stand in the same corner as C. But I'm afraid I'm even worse of, my three favourite *albums* are Drama, 90125 and Big Generator. I enjoy Union as well. Talk I can't really stand. And prior to Drama there are good songs on every album, but as *whole* albums they're propably beyond and above my musical comprehension level...

Only wish TR would do some proper music again... and soon!

Bo Locks

01-13-2005, 01:47 PM

I just got a copy of Big Generator...This came out before you were born...!!!???

ha*

haha*

a-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. .. ah... ah

Somb'dy get me a taxi for the mortuary...

>gibber< >tweet<

Nellsalot

01-13-2005, 03:51 PM

You find my age amusing?

umgekehrt

01-13-2005, 04:07 PM

"Love Will Find A Way" is also my favorite song from this album. Especially the intro. Can't beat that. I don't really like the video much because it doesn't include the intro. I was actually expecting them to perform it during the Magnification tour, you know, with the orchestra. That would have been a blast.

Oh and I also like "Age Ain't Nuthin' But A Number" by Aaliyah :D

Nellsalot

01-13-2005, 06:35 PM

I learned the main guitar riff the other day. It's really addictive to play.

SonicDeath10

01-14-2005, 03:31 AM

big penetrator.

Bo Locks

01-14-2005, 04:10 AM

You find my age amusing?No. I find the relative passage of time hilarious. I'd better sit down and do some thought experiments... with Rythym Of Love doing its pounding thing in the background.

Einstein

ycantibu

01-14-2005, 08:23 AM

I find that strangely erotic. Guess I better go sit in the corner with Cinderella. But I can't tell you what we'll be doing there.

big penetrator.

vtchatman

01-30-2005, 02:16 PM

I love Big Generator, but of course I worship Trevor Rabin. My favorite Yes albums are the ones he was on and only the ones he was on.

I'll go stand in the corner now.
i used to think like you too and when i got highlights things changed, now i only like things howe is on pretty much but only up to drama.

SonicDeath10

01-30-2005, 06:47 PM

Fools!

;)

Dr.Bass

01-31-2005, 07:57 AM

I have a love/hate relationship with BG. I love it as it's my favourite Yes West album, with some great tracks (I'm Running is awesome), however I hate it on occasion as it doesn't sound nearly as good as it should.
Perhaps having three people produce it diluted it's sound some what, but there's no denying that this album is in dire need of being remastered. Play any track from BG, and then play the 35th anniversary remix of Big Generator, you'll hear what I mean.

What's wrong with Rhino?
Get it sorted!

Topographic][Sardaukar

02-19-2005, 11:22 PM

Big Generator is my favorite Yes West album and "I'm Running" is my favorite Yes West song. I thought Trevor played much more tastefully and creatively on this album than 90125, better parts and more variety of tone and style.

If you made a Yes West compilation with songs Like I'm Running, Endless Dream, Cinema, Changes, and The Calling, that's a pretty darn impressive list that I would say rivals the newest Yes albums.

allpurechance

02-19-2005, 11:31 PM

...especially as a presage to Magnification,and a kind of late post script to Time And A Word,AND !--lol--especially after seeing Yes RIP thru Rhythm Of Love this past year....no,this isn't as bad an album as the rap it's been given might indicate...and Shoot High,Aim Low....wow...!...still gives me a chill,in these latter days lol....

SonicDeath10

02-20-2005, 12:25 AM

i like the points you make about his playing being more creative: in parts it's more experimental than 90125.

sunburstbasser

02-20-2005, 01:38 AM

I really like Big Generator. My favorite Yes album is probably Drama at this point, but I'd put BG in the top ten, above 90125 at any rate.

"Love Will Find A Way" has got one of the SWEETEST guitar riffs in rock history! Its mournful, joyous, nervous and excited all at once. My all time favorite riff of any band right there.

The album overall isn't as strong as, say, TFTO, but I'll put BG in my CD player when I'm driving down the road because its better driving music at least.

Yeah, I like this album. Enough that I won't go stand in the corner.:D

cinderella

02-20-2005, 02:12 AM

[Sardaukar']Big Generator is my favorite Yes West album and "I'm Running" is my favorite Yes West song. I thought Trevor played much more tastefully and creatively on this album than 90125, better parts and more variety of tone and style.

If you made a Yes West compilation with songs Like I'm Running, Endless Dream, Cinema, Changes, and The Calling, that's a pretty darn impressive list that I would say rivals the newest Yes albums.

I can't deal with "I'm Running." I think it's absolutely awful.
Bad bad Trevor!!

Sheerah

02-20-2005, 02:21 AM

and Shoot High,Aim Low....wow...!...still gives me a chill,in these latter days lol....

One of my favorite Yes songs, that one is!

yesmandroc

02-20-2005, 02:45 AM

I can't deal with "I'm Running." I think it's absolutely awful.
Bad bad Trevor!!

I think YOU need to stand in the corner.

cinderella

02-20-2005, 02:51 AM

I think YOU need to stand in the corner.

I was just thinking the same thing.

02-20-2005, 04:38 AM

Shoot High,Aim Low....wow...!...still gives me a chill,in these latter days lol....

I couldn't agree more, Frank. Not only is it a great song , but the guitar and bass playing give it the extra push into super coolness.

scootwhoman

03-06-2005, 06:34 AM

Personally, I believe that 'Big Generator' suffered from people's expectations being very high, while the band was struggling with personnel issues, the state of pop music at the time, and a label which had lost all sense of creative support. By that, I mean that Atlantic was more interested in getting another album out to capitalize on the '90125' popularity than they were in allowing Yes to craft a product up to the band's standards. There was a lot of hype about the 'new' Yes album at least a year before its eventual release, and I had a strong sense that the band was not happy with what they released. '90125' had been so overwhelming, so broad in its appeal, that it almost rivaled the music from the early '70's. People were expecting to be knocked off their feet again, which would have taken another line-up change, probably. Pop music at this time was fragmenting badly, with rap beginning to gain popularity, rock and roll lost in a fog of drugs and alcohol, and sounds like grunge, industrial rock, and speed metal all rising in popularity.

What had been a monolithic audiance for years was splintering into small groups, none of whom seemed interested in what was on the top-40 list. 'New Age' music was everywhere, even when the artist flatly denied anything of the sort, which seemed to sweep progressive rock into the dustbin. Either it was metal, or it wasn't rock. Mettalica was defining what album rock sounded like, while U2 seemed to control the pop rock charts. Against all of this, 'Big Generator' seemed pretentious, fragmented, and wishy-washy. And we waited a very long time for it!

In retrospect, I think that it has some excellent music, but nothing to compare to the bulk of the Yes catalog. I still listen to it occaisonally.