Why?

[Q]

Why did Billy really leave the band? Does anybody know?

[brismike]

I believe the answer from Billy himself is "No Comment"!! But we will have to wait for the album's release to find out the details lol .. :))

Come on Billy release it soon!!!

Mike

[Dragonfly]

:fan: :fan: :fan: :fan: :fan:
The thing I liked most about Billy's contributions to Yes were his background vocal arrangements. The complex harmonies on "New State of Mind", from OPEN YOUR EYES, leave me spell-bound. How perfect, then, that they'd include the montage of the backing tracks at the end of the disc. (I keep meaning to edit them all closer together as a sort of "song".)

He's a true progressive. His work even on background vocals evolved as time went on. My favorite example of this (which I've mentioned in other threads) was on "The Messenger" from HOUSE OF YES. The point where Jon sings, "One voice. One world. One touch. One life... truly, truly say it" and Billy sings behind him was changed for the live version. He starts very quiet (before Jon starts in) and then fades up to full volume to sing his own lyrics - as though his voice were a keyboard or guitar with the performer playing with the volume knob. It's very subtle but extremly effective.
:thumbs:

I really wish there were more live tracks available from his time in the band. (That also goes for the time he helped produce the band on KEYS TO ASCENSION 2!)

Dragonfly :yesbird:

[jimmygtr]

I think Billy was in the band for similar reasons as Rabin, Horn, and Downes were - Chris Squire was willing to take a chance on new musicians and maybe more than that, willing to take a chance on new relationships and friends.

Now why Billy thought he would be getting into jazz by joining Yes makes little or no sense to me. That's not really been driving force in their music even though there were influences. Steve was uncomfortable with 2 guitar players (and more than that) Steve has never really recognized anything Yes has done outside of what he's played on (he won't even recognize the Owner solo for crying out loud). Which as musician I can appreciate he has a concept of what the Yes sound should be but I think that is exactly how bands becomes a parody of themselves by holding on to some formula.

Can't really imagine Billy in K.C. He could probably add some nice melodies but I'm not sure what we would do during things like Thrak or Larks Tonuge Part 103...

[bondegezou]

Why did Billy really leave the band? Does anybody know?

He was kicked out: Howe wanted him out for ages and I'm guessing that Anderson, who had previously wanted Sherwood in, changed his mind. It was then Howe and Anderson versus Squire, so bye-bye Sherwood. Howe seems also to have been crucial in having Khoroshev kicked out. In numerous interviews, Howe has made his feelings clear about both: consider, for example, http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/entertainment/music/indieandrock/s/82/82225_steve_the_ultimate_yes_man.html .

Henry

[Dances w/PURPLE]

As always Henry, thanks for the link. (a musician's source..you are!)

[luckeydoug1]

Why did Billy really leave the band? Does anybody know?
He was kicked out: Howe wanted him out for ages and I'm guessing that Anderson, who had previously wanted Sherwood in, changed his mind. It was then Howe and Anderson versus Squire, so bye-bye Sherwood. Howe seems also to have been crucial in having Khoroshev kicked out. In numerous interviews, Howe has made his feelings clear about both: consider, for example, http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/entertainment/music/indieandrock/s/82/82225_steve_the_ultimate_yes_man.html .

Henry

Truly amazing. It seems that at least once a month I find another reason to truly despise Mr Howe.

[smatt]

Well, I'm not so sure it's all that simple... And I believe any animosity between Steve and Bill yhas long since passed... Billy was keen to see Steve play with Asia a couple short months ago... Time heals most things :smurf:

[shortexchanges]

Steve Does Play 80's Yes Yet Jon Will Not Sing Drama.

They Do Have Egos.

Steve Did Play Hearts On The Ladder Tour And It Was Wonderful. Steve Also Played With Rabin On The Horn Tribute From 04.

I Feel Yes Is Best When New Bllod Is Injected And The Sound Evolves. The Harmonies On Open Your Eyes Are Breathtaking. Kudos To The Spirit Of The Beach Boys.

[luckeydoug1]

Well, I'm not so sure it's all that simple... And I believe any animosity between Steve and Bill yhas long since passed... Billy was keen to see Steve play with Asia a couple short months ago... Time heals most things :smurf:

Thanks for that, Matt. You are truely an amazing source of information!


I Feel Yes Is Best When New Bllod Is Injected And The Sound Evolves. The Harmonies On Open Your Eyes Are Breathtaking. Kudos To The Spirit Of The Beach Boys.
I agree. These days, I find I am listening to the music of Billy Sherwood (as well as Chris Squire and Trevor Rabin) even more than the music of Yes. Billy has a gift for music composition and harmonies that really speaks volumes to me!

[Fly By Light]

Has anyone heard "No Comment" yet? Billy wrote some pointed lyrics. I think I'd be safe in assuming they are related to his years in Yes.

One of the songs titled "False Prophets" is quite sharp.
here's a few lines...

"Don't wanna be drinking your holy water
Don't wanna be drinking your holy wine
I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of order
I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of line

Beware....beware

Look through their cosmic haze
You'll see them rant and rage
Unfazed by seduction
Their minions are slipping away

Beware....beware, false prophets

They believed in their own words
to the point where their words have lost their meaning
Convinced in what they say and do
Disregarding what is true"


I guess we won't be seeing a Yes lineup with Sherwood anytime soon.

[highaltitude]

Why did Billy really leave the band? Does anybody know?

As he said in yesyears, for over 20 years the answer is the same ..."it was for musical reasons...."

[RickyG]

Truly amazing. It seems that at least once a month I find another reason to truly despise Mr Howe.

I'm sorry man but this view is just absurd, and I'm tired of people totally and completely dissing YES musicians for NO REASON. I just read that interview and I cannot comprehend how you'd come away with "another reason to truly despise Mr Howe." That's just pure crap. It seems you apparently can read anything into whatever you want.

He like's Rick and he wanted Rick back in the band.
He felt that having people who weren't Rick but were essentially cloning Rick was not as good as having the real Rick in the band. What the freak is wrong with that??

I read the article and I only find more respect for Mr. Howe.
He was correct. The best thing to happen to YES since Howe himself rejoined, was having Rick rejoin in 2002.

I saw the Khoroshev shows. He was Rick lite. He had none of the stage presence of Wakeman. Brislin played his parts well but he was no Rick either.

None of us know the inner dynamics of that band, what the feel is in rehearsal and on stage. I've played with a ton of musicians and some of them you can be totally cool with when you are not playing, but the vibe just isn't working 100% when you are playing. The five classic members have a magic combination of energies when they make music together. It's a huge stretch for anyone to find their place within that... it may even be impossible.

By the way, Khoroshev blew it himself... I'd have kicked him out too if I were in the band.

[RickyG]

Has anyone heard "No Comment" yet? Billy wrote some pointed lyrics. I think I'd be safe in assuming they are related to his years in Yes.


I guess we won't be seeing a Yes lineup with Sherwood anytime soon.

Assuming you are correct, and it certainly is easy to get that feeling from those lyrics, then my opinion of Sherwood has just been lowered. Prior to this I never had any bad feeling about him, I just never much cared for his contributions to YES.

Everything he implies in those lyrics may be completely true, who knows. But that's not the point. His years in YES gave him standing and visibility and cache that he had not ever acquired on his own any other way. YES gave him opportunity and he is no doubt wealthier, both in experience and in income as a result of that time. Hundreds of thousands of music fans around the world know of him, who never would have known of him if it weren't for YES.

You know what they say about biting the hand that fed you...

It shows a lack of character to air such resentments, to publically disrespect your mentors, your heroes, your employers because they aren't the gods you wished they were.
Because everything doesn't come out all perfect for you.
Because you see that they are flawed humans like everyone else.
Perfect in their imperfections.

He's lucky he had any time at all in that band.

[Scottie]

I believe LDoug is expressing some resentment that stems from the constant bashing that his beloved Trevor has endured through the political dogfights which have been rehashed either directly or through innuendo.

Thanks for the lyrical insight Krista. I for one loved Billy’s contribution in the band and what he has done with Conspiracy.

[RickyG]

I believe LDoug is expressing some resentment that stems from the constant bashing that his beloved Trevor has endured through the political dogfights which have been rehashed either directly or through innuendo.

Thanks for the lyrical insight Krista. I for one loved Billy’s contribution in the band and what he has done with Conspiracy.

Hey Brother Scottie!! Long time no path crossed around here!

As you say, "through innuendo"....

So much that we fans toss around here has got to be an incredible distortion of whatever the truth is between these people. And I'm sure that they don't even always know what the truth is between themselves!!

As far as Trevor and Steve, why don't we all just look at what they did together at that Trevor Horn Tribute and leave it at that. Clearly they got on quite well together. I'm willing to bet that nearly all of us have dark episodes in our pasts with some of our closest loved ones. But we really don't endeavor to endlessly re-hash it... publically or privately!! No, we hopefully learn, grow and let go....

May we allow the same for our beloved YES brothers!
And just dig the music!!:headset:

[Fly By Light]

Thanks for the lyrical insight Krista. I for one loved Billy’s contribution in the band and what he has done with Conspiracy.

Hi Scottie, I liked Billy's contribution to the band as well, especially his vocals. I also like his other works as well, my favorite being the first World Trade album.

[Fly By Light]

Assuming you are correct, and it certainly is easy to get that feeling from those lyrics, then my opinion of Sherwood has just been lowered. Prior to this I never had any bad feeling about him, I just never much cared for his contributions to YES.

Everything he implies in those lyrics may be completely true, who knows. But that's not the point. His years in YES gave him standing and visibility and cache that he had not ever acquired on his own any other way. YES gave him opportunity and he is no doubt wealthier, both in experience and in income as a result of that time. Hundreds of thousands of music fans around the world know of him, who never would have known of him if it weren't for YES.

You know what they say about biting the hand that fed you...

It shows a lack of character to air such resentments, to publically disrespect your mentors, your heroes, your employers because they aren't the gods you wished they were.
Because everything doesn't come out all perfect for you.
Because you see that they are flawed humans like everyone else.
Perfect in their imperfections.

He's lucky he had any time at all in that band.

Hi Ricky, I agree with you. Sometimes it's best to move on silently. Obviously, he needed to get this off his chest, but those words might come back to haunt him. As harsh as some of the words are, I do like the CD as a whole. Billy really is a talented man and I wish him the best.

[Mind Driver]

Billy who?

[gathernear]

Billy who?

Yeah, really. Why dig this thread up after 4 years?

[bondegezou]

Has anyone heard "No Comment" yet? Billy wrote some pointed lyrics. I think I'd be safe in assuming they are related to his years in Yes.

One of the songs titled "False Prophets" is quite sharp.
here's a few lines...

"Don't wanna be drinking your holy water
Don't wanna be drinking your holy wine
I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of order
I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of line

Beware....beware

Look through their cosmic haze
You'll see them rant and rage
Unfazed by seduction
Their minions are slipping away

Beware....beware, false prophets

They believed in their own words
to the point where their words have lost their meaning
Convinced in what they say and do
Disregarding what is true"


I guess we won't be seeing a Yes lineup with Sherwood anytime soon.

Sorry, but I don't see why those lyrics have to be about Yes at all. People are jumping to all sorts of conclusions here based on a questionable premise.

Whatever Sherwood's past with Yes, he's about the only person who's bringing Yes members together these days! He's working on a project with Alan White and Tony Kaye. Kaye and Peter Banks guest on the next Conspiracy album. There's a line-up with Howe, Wakeman and Sherwood doing "Great Gig in the Sky" on the Dark Side of the Moon tribute, plus Bruford, Levin and Sherwood on "Money" and Banks, Kaye and Sherwood on "Eclipse". Downes and White are also on the album.

Henry

[luckeydoug1]

Sorry, but I don't see why those lyrics have to be about Yes at all. People are jumping to all sorts of conclusions here based on a questionable premise.

Whatever Sherwood's past with Yes, he's about the only person who's bringing Yes members together these days! He's working on a project with Alan White and Tony Kaye. Kaye and Peter Banks guest on the next Conspiracy album. There's a line-up with Howe, Wakeman and Sherwood doing "Great Gig in the Sky" on the Dark Side of the Moon tribute, plus Bruford, Levin and Sherwood on "Money" and Banks, Kaye and Sherwood on "Eclipse". Downes and White are also on the album.

Henry


I have never read anything where Billy stated negative things about his time with Yes and usually goes out of his way to avoid saying anything that could be interpreted as being negative. With that in mind, I would find it hard to believe that he would publish a song with the intention of being negative about this.

[luckeydoug1]

Truly amazing. It seems that at least once a month I find another reason to truly despise Mr Howe.
I'm sorry man but this view is just absurd, and I'm tired of people totally and completely dissing YES musicians for NO REASON. I just read that interview and I cannot comprehend how you'd come away with "another reason to truly despise Mr Howe." That's just pure crap. It seems you apparently can read anything into whatever you want.

OK, maybe I should not have qouted the link to that article, but if you read the entire post I quoted (note the portion in bold) you will see part of the reason I feel the way I do.
He was kicked out: Howe wanted him out for ages and I'm guessing that Anderson, who had previously wanted Sherwood in, changed his mind. It was then Howe and Anderson versus Squire, so bye-bye Sherwood. Howe seems also to have been crucial in having Khoroshev kicked out. In numerous interviews, Howe has made his feelings clear about both
Henry

[umgekehrt]

Has anyone heard "No Comment" yet? Billy wrote some pointed lyrics. I think I'd be safe in assuming they are related to his years in Yes.

One of the songs titled "False Prophets" is quite sharp.
here's a few lines...

"Don't wanna be drinking your holy water
Don't wanna be drinking your holy wine
I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of order
I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of line

Beware....beware

Look through their cosmic haze
You'll see them rant and rage
Unfazed by seduction
Their minions are slipping away

Beware....beware, false prophets

They believed in their own words
to the point where their words have lost their meaning
Convinced in what they say and do
Disregarding what is true"


I guess we won't be seeing a Yes lineup with Sherwood anytime soon.

No, it's not safe at all to assume those words are related to his years in Yes, as there is no indication whatsoever that it's what he meant.

[Jackaranda]

Has anyone heard "No Comment" yet? Billy wrote some pointed lyrics. I think I'd be safe in assuming they are related to his years in Yes.

One of the songs titled "False Prophets" is quite sharp.
here's a few lines...

"Don't wanna be drinking your holy water
Don't wanna be drinking your holy wine
I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of order
I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of line

Beware....beware

Look through their cosmic haze
You'll see them rant and rage
Unfazed by seduction
Their minions are slipping away

Beware....beware, false prophets

They believed in their own words
to the point where their words have lost their meaning
Convinced in what they say and do
Disregarding what is true"


I guess we won't be seeing a Yes lineup with Sherwood anytime soon.

Hmmmm......

[The Whale]

No, it's not safe at all to assume those words are related to his years in Yes, as there is no indication whatsoever that it's what he meant.

I think Billys continued work with Chris and now his work with Tony and Alan show that he indeed was not talking about his time with Yes.

[bondegezou]

I think Billys continued work with Chris and now his work with Tony and Alan show that he indeed was not talking about his time with Yes.

Indeed, since leaving Yes, Sherwood has not only worked with Squire, White and Kaye, but also with Howe, Wakeman, Banks, Bruford, Downes and Levin, and there was talk about doing something with Rabin. Then again, as far as I know, he's not worked with Anderson since.

Henry

[Fly By Light]

Has anyone heard "No Comment" yet? Billy wrote some pointed lyrics. I think I'd be safe in assuming they are related to his years in Yes.

One of the songs titled "False Prophets" is quite sharp.
here's a few lines...

"Don't wanna be drinking your holy water
Don't wanna be drinking your holy wine
I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of order
I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of line

Beware....beware

Look through their cosmic haze
You'll see them rant and rage
Unfazed by seduction
Their minions are slipping away

Beware....beware, false prophets

They believed in their own words
to the point where their words have lost their meaning
Convinced in what they say and do
Disregarding what is true"


I guess we won't be seeing a Yes lineup with Sherwood anytime soon.

When I first listened to this CD, I was saddened by the lyrics. The Yes-like imitations, specifically the "doo doo's" in this song lead me to the conclusion that Billy must have been venting his frustrations about his time with Yes.

I'm very happy to see that Billy is now in Circa with Alan & Tony. I've been a big Billy fan for many years and was sad to see him leave Yes. It's really great to hear the new music from Circa, which I love!

I'd be interested in hearing other opinions about what the lyrics in this song may mean. Anyone have a hypothesis they'd like to share?

[The Whale]

well I dobt they were directed at "Yes" but I could see were they might have been a jab at not just Jon but Pop Icons like Jon that start beleaving there own hype.

[bondegezou]

I'd be interested in hearing other opinions about what the lyrics in this song may mean. Anyone have a hypothesis they'd like to share?

It could be simply the obvious, a pop at televangelists and/or politicians.

Henry

[Fly By Light]

It could be simply the obvious, a pop at televangelists and/or politicians.

Henry

If that's the case, I wonder why the Jon imitation is in there. It's very obvious to me.

[Scottie]

It might be as easy as asking Billy himself.

[bondegezou]

If that's the case, I wonder why the Jon imitation is in there. It's very obvious to me.

I don't see any Jon imitation. Lines like "Don't wanna be drinking your holy water/Don't wanna be drinking your holy wine/I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of order/I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of line" don't sound anything like a description of Anderson to me.

But, indeed, as said, why not ask Sherwood on his MySpace page?

Henry

[Fly By Light]

It might be as easy as asking Billy himself.

It would be interesting to hear what Billy has to say about it. I have a feeling he would say "No comment".

[Fly By Light]

I don't see any Jon imitation. Lines like "Don't wanna be drinking your holy water/Don't wanna be drinking your holy wine/I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of order/I'm the one that's gonna tell you when you're out of line" don't sound anything like a description of Anderson to me.

But, indeed, as said, why not ask Sherwood on his MySpace page?

Henry

Have you actually listend to the song? I'm talking about a musical reference, not the lyrics.

[Scottie]

It would be interesting to hear what Billy has to say about it. I have a feeling he would say "No comment".
:lol:

[milestownyes]

The sad part about the core Yes group is that they WON'T let anyone else in on a permanent basis and although the fans love the "classic" lineup there will be no Yes to carry on into the future because they're all getting so old I almost expect someone to suddenly depart their corporeal existence at any time. The other problem is that if you want to keep the energy levels up I think the band needs an infusion of younger blood to spice things up and get it more in touch with what the audience consciousness is now rather than wallowing in a constant rendition of the seventies; and I'm kind of an old guy myself any more. If you aren't moving forward then your losing ground because the world doesn't stop.

[JaneEyre]

But, indeed, as said, why not ask Sherwood on his MySpace page?
That's so crazy, it just might work!

[bondegezou]

The sad part about the core Yes group is that they WON'T let anyone else in on a permanent basis and although the fans love the "classic" lineup there will be no Yes to carry on into the future

Is it the band members who won't let anyone new in, or is it the fanbase? When the band try different line-ups, the fans complain and they seem to sell fewer tickets/albums.

That said, I don't think there ever was a realistic possibility for Yes to carry on into the future, without Anderson, Squire, Howe etc.

Henry

[Silent_wings]

Just my very uniformed opinion but it sounds like a jab at Jon's spiritual adviser The Divine Mother (what ever her name is)

[relayeire]

Is it the band members who won't let anyone new in, or is it the fanbase? When the band try different line-ups, the fans complain and they seem to sell fewer tickets/albums.

That said, I don't think there ever was a realistic possibility for Yes to carry on into the future, without Anderson, Squire, Howe etc.

Henry

funny what Howe said about bringing outside people in and making them part of the band... Yes has had many, many different lineups... Howe himself was an outside person, the first to come into the fold in the band's history

[Fly By Light]

Just my very uniformed opinion but it sounds like a jab at Jon's spiritual adviser The Divine Mother (what ever her name is)

I never thought of that.
I'll go and listen again...

[Fly By Light]

Is it the band members who won't let anyone new in, or is it the fanbase? When the band try different line-ups, the fans complain and they seem to sell fewer tickets/albums.

That said, I don't think there ever was a realistic possibility for Yes to carry on into the future, without Anderson, Squire, Howe etc.

Henry

This does seem to be the case these days, although 90125 was extremely successful in 1984. Does anyone know which Yes album/line up had the most success in album sales and concert attendance?

[bondegezou]

funny what Howe said about bringing outside people in and making them part of the band... Yes has had many, many different lineups... Howe himself was an outside person, the first to come into the fold in the band's history

Second. Bill Bruford left in late 1968, only to return a few months later. However, in the mean time, they did have a different drummer, Tony O'Reilly.

Henry

[bondegezou]

90125 was extremely successful in 1984. Does anyone know which Yes album/line up had the most success in album sales and concert attendance?

In terms of success at the time, the album chart performance is a useful measure...

Yes: did not chart in UK or US
Time and a Word: UK #45, did not chart in US
TYA: US#40, UK#7
Fragile: US#4, UK#7
Close to the Edge: US#3, UK#4
Yessongs: US#12, UK#7
TfTO: US#6, UK#1 (2 wks at #1)
Relayer: US#5, UK#4
Yesterdays: US#17, UK#27
GftO: US#8, UK#1 (2 wks at #1)
Tormato: US#10, UK#8
Drama: US#18, UK#2
Yesshows: US#43, UK#22
Classic Yes: US#142, did not chart in UK
90125: US#5, UK#16
9012Live: US#81, UK#44
Big Generator: US#15, UK#17
ABWH: US#30, UK#14
Union: US#15, UK#7
Symphonic Music of Yes: US#164, did not chart in UK
Talk: US#33, UK#20
KtA: US#99, UK#48
KtA2: UK #62, did not chart in US
OYE: US#151, UK#105
The Ladder: US#99 (I think...?), UK#36
Magnification: US#186, UK#71

Henry

[Ernie90125]

Henry ! You missed The Ultimate YES which got to #10 in the UK album chart (I think) ?

YES in the top ten album chart once again...just as it should be......!

[bondegezou]

Henry ! You missed The Ultimate YES which got to #10 in the UK album chart (I think) ?

YES in the top ten album chart once again...just as it should be......!

You are quite right, Daniel. And the Max Graham remix of "Owner of a Lonely Heart" single made the top ten too -- it did better than the original over here.

Henry

[Ernie90125]

Not to mention they have done very well in the DVD chart. I don't know if there is a listing of that, it would be very interesting to see.

And I think the DVD-A of Fragile got into the Top 20 in a DVD-A chart - based on some ridiculus number of sales like 17 units or something !