90125/BG Tours - man under the stage

[jimmygtr]

So I'm sure many of us have heard the stories (which appear to be substantiated) that Tony's roadie played some keys on the 90125 and Big Generator Tours.

So what I'm trying to determine via listening to assorted live recordings are what actual songs the man under the stage played.

Does this important stuff keep anyone else up late at night :D

[umgekehrt]

It sure does keep Tony awake at night...

[ycantibu]

His roadie played on Hold On. Apparently, there is a section of that song that has three keyboard lines at once, so he let the roadie play on it as well.

[jimmygtr]

His roadie played on Hold On. Apparently, there is a section of that song that has three keyboard lines at once, so he let the roadie play on it as well.

Yes, I've heard that but I can't really determine that listening to any live material of that song. There DOES seem to be a lot of ambient sound during Starship Trooper on several versions with Tony and I've wondered if he roadie added anything to that.

I guess my hunch is he played on more than one song as Billy Sherwood played on more than one song when he played back up guitar and keys on the Talk Tour.

[Jackaranda]

Listen to And You And I from any of the YesWest tours. There seems to be 2 keyboard players on that as well. Also Endless Dream from the Talk tour. Watching the video, when Tony is the only one playing keyboards, near the end, someone is playing piano, so that must be the under the stage guy. He probably played on a lot more than we are guessing.

[umgekehrt]

Okay, now supposing this is true that some roadie played a second keyboard, why would Yes let Tony Kaye do that? If he felt not up to the task, they should have replaced him with a more capable person. There must be thousands of keyboardists out there who dream of joining Yes.

[Jackaranda]

It may not have been a roadie, now. I don't know who it was, but it was somebody.

The big difference between YesWest and Trooper Yes live was YW used a hidden keyboard player and used lots of tapes. Now I love YW and love all their live material, but it shows where their weakness was. Wakeman could have covered all of that, one way or another.

[jimmygtr]

Okay, now supposing this is true that some roadie played a second keyboard, why would Yes let him do that? If he felt not up to the task, they should have replaced him with a more capable person. There must be thousands of keyboardists out there who dream of joining Yes.

Trevor R. has said it was Tony's roadie on more then one a occasion.

[jimmygtr]

Listen to And You And I from any of the YesWest tours. There seems to be 2 keyboard players on that as well. Also Endless Dream from the Talk tour. Watching the video, when Tony is the only one playing keyboards, near the end, someone is playing piano, so that must be the under the stage guy. He probably played on a lot more than we are guessing.

On the Talk Tour, Billy Sherwood played keys and backup guitar on stage in the back. Trevor played that fast key intro on Endless Dream live and then locked it into a loop)

[jimmygtr]

It may not have been a roadie, now. I don't know who it was, but it was somebody.

The big difference between YesWest and Trooper Yes live was YW used a hidden keyboard player and used lots of tapes. Now I love YW and love all their live material, but it shows where their weakness was. Wakeman could have covered all of that, one way or another.

True Jack, but ABWH used a second keyboard player (and second guitar player) as well...

[umgekehrt]

In the July 1984 edition of "Keyboard" magazine it is mentioned that one Casey Young was the one who supported Tony Kaye under the stage. But in the August 1991 edition of the very same magazine Robby Eagle claimed he was actually that person. If anybody has either of those articles I think we would like to have a look.

[frosted]

On the 90125 tour i think Jons voice was run thru Tonys keyboards and played by his tech under the stage at the start of "Hold on". Some songs from the west era have two or three keyboard tracks on them so its not a slam against Tony that someone helped out on tour.

[Q]

The Troopers were just as guilty. While they didn't have a hidden player under the stage, Eddie Offord (when running sound) slipped taped tracks into some live songs, to flesh out weak vocals and pad the keyboards. He has been forthcoming about this.

[pianozach]

I think it's generally accepted that Tony Kaye's contributions to 90125, BG, Talk, and Union were minimal, with Trevor Rabin supplying most of the keys.

I think I read somewhere that Chris, Trevor and Alan were looking for someone for to do the keyboards live, and Tony's name came up. I'm not sure if this was before or after Jon joined up. It may have been a pity/guilt trip type of thing, guilt for having sacked him so many years ago. And they probably felt that, in the absence of a "Wakeman" name recognition keyboardist, Tony Kaye's name was a good "curiosity" draw.

I may be wrong about some or even all of these things. Please correct me if I've lost my mind.

Tony actually plays organ and piano very well, but there was no way that he could recreate the studio sounds of 90125, BG, and Talk singlehandedly. These tracks weren't even really his musical style (even though he had the "look"). Like many other bands, I figured that some of the concert music would likely be "canned" (pre-recorded) anyway. It's just a shame that if someone is playing in a concert, that the band would feel the need to "hide" him.

[Q]

Tony came on board before Jon.

Rick also has the capacity to play two melodic lines simultaneously (so could Pat, so could Igor). As far as I have ever seen, Tony has never been able to do more than a melodic line with one hand and a pad with the other.

[jimmygtr]

I think it's generally accepted that Tony Kaye's contributions to 90125, BG, Talk, and Union were minimal, with Trevor Rabin supplying most of the keys.

I think I read somewhere that Chris, Trevor and Alan were looking for someone for to do the keyboards live, and Tony's name came up. I'm not sure if this was before or after Jon joined up. It may have been a pity/guilt trip type of thing, guilt for having sacked him so many years ago. And they probably felt that, in the absence of a "Wakeman" name recognition keyboardist, Tony Kaye's name was a good "curiosity" draw.

I may be wrong about some or even all of these things. Please correct me if I've lost my mind.

Tony actually plays organ and piano very well, but there was no way that he could recreate the studio sounds of 90125, BG, and Talk singlehandedly. These tracks weren't even really his musical style (even though he had the "look"). Like many other bands, I figured that some of the concert music would likely be "canned" (pre-recorded) anyway. It's just a shame that if someone is playing in a concert, that the band would feel the need to "hide" him.

Tony is a decent piano and organ player (I have heard him play both quite nicely) but like Q said there is some limits to his dexterity and hand dependence.

I suspect that Tony's name also came up because he was in LA and he was available. I was actually suprised they didn't use Geoff Downes give that Chris like his playing and Geoff's involvement with Trevor Horn, but of course he was in Asia at the time.