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View Full Version : Trevor Rabin - A Fresh Appraisal


WOLFman
05-17-2004, 10:05 AM
As the name may suggest, I'm a bit of a Trevor fan (not in the same way as some of the WOLFwomen on this site, but still a fan!) I know that I might be preaching to the converted a bit with this, but I just thought I'd add my two cents as to why any criticism of Trevor's time with Yes is completely unjustified.

Imagine this - you're a young, talented musician, with the world at your feet. Record companies are desperate to sign you up and get you a band, within which your talent and sing-writing ability can flourish. You are given two options - something with Keith Emerson, and a project with Chris Squire and Alan White, called Cinema. By no means is this meant to be a 'new Yes' - it's a contemporary band, playing contemporary music. You try this option, and it goes well - they love the songs you've written, and you rehearse them dilligently. The record company aren't sure - think a lead singer is maybe needed. Your new colleagues consider their old bandmate, Jon Anderson - fine, you say, he could make a good lead singer for Cinema.

THEN - it's decided that, with four ex-Yes members, the band should be called Yes. It doesn't matter that you joined Cinema, doesn't matter that the songs you wrote make no attempt to be 'Yes songs' - if its called Yes then it will probably be more successful. You're not sure - Yes is a band with a great history (you've long respected them) and Cinema have never been Yes. Anyway, the others are eager so you go with it, spending a few weeks with Jon ensuring his stamp comes over the album. Its still a Cinema album, however, and in no way sounds like the Yes of the past - but then it was never meant to.

You release the album, and go on tour. Unsurprisingly, it's a massive hit - you're a musician at the top of your game, and Trevor Horn the same in the producers chair. Being, now, through little or no choice of your own, a member of Yes, you are expected to learn, and perform, some numbers from the Yes back catalogue, along with the stuff you've just written.As a long-term fan, eager to be more than just an identikit of the previous Yes guitarist, you suggest delving deeper than just the 'greatest hits', but are overruled - so it's the same songs that the band performed ad nauseum in tours past. 70s Yes fans (well, a lot of them) aren't happy - who is this imposter, hogging the limelight, and standing in Steve Howe's spotlight? How dare he? Never mind the fact that the guy is, obviously immensely talented - never mind, either, that in a few short weeks he's learnt, and is now performing, some of Howe's toughest material to a incredibly high standard. Never mind that Howe has left to join another band producing stuff just as 'culpable' of producing the sort of AOR rock ('selling out'?) so hated from this new Yes. Nope, this man is to be derided. It is a feeling which remains until your departure 11 years later, a departure celebrated by some to this day.

IS THIS FAIR?

And, while I'm at it, how about this! It's time for a second album, and, knowing this will be a 'Yes' album (remember, the last time you had NO IDEA) you eagerly plan material more in keeping with the history of the band - still contemporary, but with more than a passing nod to the great works of the 60s and 70s. Oh no you're not. The record company, and your fellow band members (when they're prepared to cooperate at all), liked the success of Cinema - and they want more. Have you got any stuff you've been working on yourself? Well, yes, actually, but it's not Yes music... Never mind, let's get it on the album. Let's make it the first single.

So, you've just finished up the difficult (for many reasons, but none, I'd suggest, of your own making), but hugely successful Big Generator album and tour. Not as successful as the first album and tour, but still up there as one of the most successful ever for Yes. But maybe your bubble is bursting? Maybe the Yes fans don't want you in Yes anymore? Whatever, your lead singer (who you and the other Cinema members had dragged, virtually, from the musical wilderness) does a runner and starts up another band, claiming this to be 'the real Yes'. But when they find success hard to come by - they even try to perform one of your hit songs - in the competitive 80s rock market (and potential hit songs even harder) you get a call from said lead singer, asking if YOU have any songs THEY could use. Not being a guy to hold a grudge, you send a couple, and you're asked if you'd like to join up with a big 'Union' concept. You're not sure - your band (Yes) having enjoyed much more success than ABWHL - so you ask the bassist who got you to join Cinema in the first place what he thinks - but low and behold, he's already laid backing tracks on the other band's material! Now what?

You agree to participate in a 'Union', but in truth you hardly get to play a fair part - only three of 'your songs' are added to ABWHL 2, and even then you aren't given time to finish them properly. When you join up for the subsequent tour, you play your best but it's clear the other guitarist doesn't appreciate your presence - after all, you're just an imposter. Afterwards, when said lead singer decides to re-join your incarnation of the band (Cinema?) -whether for contractual reasons or others, don't know if anyone really knows - you work slavishly on an album that, you hope, will be worthy of being called a 'Yes' album, having been given the responsibility from the others. You play the results to them, and are met with unreserved delight, especially from the lead who breaks into tears on hearing one track, which on the subsequent tour he hails as one of the 'classic Yes songs'. In turn, the album and tour fail to achieve success (again, a variety of factors could be pointed to here, one of the main being that, when you were 'encouraged' to join the other band in 1990/1, you were forced to end your relationship with your record company, and subsequent deals turned sour, leaving you with a small company facing liquidation) and, as soon as it finishes, the lead singer starts making noises, again, about wishing to get back to the 'real' Yes. Despite having done so much for the band, you are promptly asked/forced to leave, and neither you, nor the songs you played such a large part in playing (some of the most successful 'Yes' songs of all time) are really ever spoken of again, even when someone is hired, basically, to recreate your role, albeit 'in the background'. On occasion, one or two songs will be played, but never is your involvement in them acknowledged, even the ones you virtually wrote yourself.

I apologise profusely for the length of this post. If anyone has bothered to read it all, thanks very much - don't know how much of it anyone will agree with but it'd be good to get some feedback. I hope I haven't given the impression that I'm some Rabin zealot who hates the other members of Yes, because that's simply not the case - I just think the criticisms made of him are unjustified, and the way he refuses to hit back at the detractors (even those within the band) is a constant source of amazement.

jimmygtr
05-17-2004, 10:50 AM
You agree to participate in a 'Union', but in truth you hardly get to play a fair part - only three of 'your songs' are added to ABWHL 2, and even then you aren't given time to finish them properly. When you join up for the subsequent tour, you play your best but it's clear the other guitarist doesn't appreciate your presence - after all, you're just an imposter.

My humble opinion is that it was nothing personal with Steve in regards to Trevor. He just doesn't like working with other guitarists. He didn't like working with Billy Sherwood as a 2nd guitarist but he said liked Billy as a person. Steve has said he feels his style is more suited for one player. Even in GTR with Steve Hackett I don't there was a whole lot of collaboration - mostly each person having there share of song contribution.

I think Trevor and Steve are both strongly opinionated and feel things should go one way or another but again I don't really think that's personal.

Jackaranda
05-17-2004, 11:26 AM
That's one of the best posts I've ever see about Rabin's history with the band. Of course, we cannot forget "Talk", which is one of my top 3 or 4 Yes albums ever, a monumental effort by Rabin to make a modern, great Yes album. He succeeded

Rabin's contributions to Yes were enormous, and, as Rick was quoted by Rabin in the recent online interview, Yes didn't burn bridges with Rabin, they nuked them!

stevepenn
05-17-2004, 11:50 AM
I understand the nature of this post but some of it strikes me as revisionist history and speculation. Rabin had a lot of the tunes done already in some form or fashion, long before Cinema or Squire or anybody else. Give 90124 a listen. Look, Trevor made great contributions to Yes and I can understand many Rabin backers' need to "defend" him. But he doesn't need any defense. He's done some great work. With and without Yes. I love Make It Easy and Lift Me Up especially. And Owner is all his. I don't recall anybody ever denying that or trying to claim credit for it. Or anything else he did. He did some good things to keep the flame burning. But it shouldn't have been called Yes, I agree. And he's not striking back at anybody because he's content with his place in the band's history and has moved onto what I am certain he believes are bigger and better things and greener pastures for his talents. I have no problem with any of that. But I do have a problem with the overall point of view as it seems to me your post paints Rabin as some kind of victim here and that is hardly the case. "Imagine this, imagine that...." Hooey. He has a huge ego and the Rabin-era was exactly that; the Rabin era. He argued for digital production using his home set up (which I think turned many fans off because of its metallic, sterile feel). He got a lot of what HE wanted and HIS style was very contrary to the old style. Therein lies the disconnect for a lot of fans I think. Say what you will, that's just the way it is.

So all the "poor Trevor" feel of this post strikes me as a little over the top. Trevor's just fine outside of Yes and I'm certain he's proud of his acomplishments while with them. He played a key role in the band's surviving and I think most of us are happy about that.

It's just that a lot of us are lot happier with the current lineup. And that's just the way that is.

Don't pity Rabin. He's a big boy who did just what he wanted.

jimmygtr
05-17-2004, 02:45 PM
I love the band to death but I think they all have huge egos...

PO
05-17-2004, 02:46 PM
No one held a gun to his head.

Little of his material was any kind of "hit" with me. Music is subjective. You can't reason with people to like it.

I agree with you (if this is what you preferred) that the 80's "Yes" should have been called Cinema. It wasn't Yes to me. A few things, okay. But overall, no. They shouldn't have played anything form the previous Yes catalog. It was a pale imitation to some of us who had seen the originals do them before. Any lineup that can't play even Awaken isn't Yes (to me).

I'll throw you a bone, though. Rabin had a bigger impact (good, bad, whatever) than Bruford ever did. I shed no tears at Bruford's departure. Rabin only did 3 albums. Bruford did, what, six?

Keep in mind, "success" is a measured term. KISS is by far more "successful" than Yes.

bataisflow
05-17-2004, 03:47 PM
I like the Rabin era Yes (much much more of a Trooper though). I think this is Steve Howe's take on Going For The # One radio hit (i.e. 90125, BG etc...). Read below (I tend to agree).

"In an interview with Prog4You, seemingly from late 2002, Howe talked more about his views on where Yes music should be going:
strong elements of rock [...] that's one of my leading edges, that's one of the leading things that I like about Yes. I want Yes to be moody and understated as well,and I don't always want to make --I hope we don't look like Status Quo, something about being on stage, as if we are that sort of a band. But I think the style of Yes and the quality would mean that the record from us and the style of writing would have to fit in the story. There is a very big story on Yes. You know, it's been on a lot of curves and deviations and sometimes it's played as radio music and that didn't do the band any long-term good, although in the short term, everybody thought it was great that we had a hit record. But in the long-term, sometimes those things, you can never change the path. After that it's very hard to get back on your original brief and do music that's progressive, un-commercial, sometimes purposely un-commercial."

His focus is on progressive and un-commercial. Gotta back Steve up as he was smokin at the show, best I ever saw him (maybe with the exception of ABWH).

Peace, and man do I need some rest!

Sheerah
05-17-2004, 03:52 PM
Great post, Wolfman!
Very thought provoking.

I do think that there is an awful lot of creative conjecture in what you wrote. But, that's just what makes the post so interesting.

It's always seemed to me that any band that remains united and successful for so long is an amazing thing. So many huge egos involved. However, the need to make music obviously overrides the ego.

jimmygtr
05-17-2004, 05:18 PM
There is a very big story on Yes. You know, it's been on a lot of curves and deviations and sometimes it's played as radio music and that didn't do the band any long-term good, although in the short term, everybody thought it was great that we had a hit record.

I certainly wouldn't qualify the 70's yes as commercial but Album Oriented Radio certainly didn't hurt their long term good back then. Peter Banks, Steve Howe, Trevor Rabin. It's Yes. Yes they make a lot of money off of 90125 and I'm very happy for each of them. When Jon, Chris, & Alan all tell me that band in the eighties wasn't Yes than I will step aside and call it Cinema.

bataisflow
05-17-2004, 06:58 PM
I certainly wouldn't qualify the 70's yes as commercial but Album Oriented Radio certainly didn't hurt their long term good back then. Peter Banks, Steve Howe, Trevor Rabin. It's Yes. Yes they make a lot of money off of 90125 and I'm very happy for each of them. When Jon, Chris, & Alan all tell me that band in the eighties wasn't Yes than I will step aside and call it Cinema.

I interpreted that comment in regards to maybe the 90125-OYE era. The 70's were not commercial, from a Yes perspective (i.e. they did not try for a hit, they didn't need to).

jimmygtr
05-17-2004, 08:59 PM
:valintine I interpreted that comment in regards to maybe the 90125-OYE era. The 70's were not commercial, from a Yes perspective (i.e. they did not try for a hit, they didn't need to).

I agree. I was simply trying to make the point that all bands need exposure of some kind and the AOR format helped the band as did the more hit radio of the 80's. The Beatles had tons of popular songs but I'm don't think anything from Rubber Soul to Abbey Road was really an attemp to make a hit it just happened. Lots of people heard OOALH and thought it was catchy and worked hard to make it a success. I dont' think that means Trevor in the Jon trying create hit. He just had an idea and used it. That's how music is birthed sometimes....

I can appreciate that some don't like the Rabin Yes, but I don't think it's any less Yes. If we call them "Cinema" then lets call the first 2 Yes albums "Mabel Greer's Toy Shop". :smurf:

ycantibu
05-17-2004, 09:34 PM
Welcome, wolf, I'm a Rabin fan myself. Believe it or not, not everyone here hates Rabin! When I first joined the site I was hesitant to post much because it seemed like so many disliked him. Pretty soon I found out I wasn't the only fan, so it was good. I understand that people may not like his sound, but there were some posts I read that...well, let's just say it went past not liking music, and straight to hating the man. Very strange stuff. BTW, a couple things in your post struck me. Rabin has always said he quit the band, not that he was pushed out. Have you heard otherwise? And the ego thing...well, I think they all have pretty big egos. :D I don't think he is the biggest though (a quick snog for anyone who can guess who I think has the biggest ego). :D

I mean, you gotta have a bit of cheek to put yourself out there for everyone to judge, don't ya think?

Orbert
05-17-2004, 11:10 PM
There's probably not a need to "defend" him, but if there were, this would be exactly right. There is a minimum of conjecture; nearly every point is supported by quotes from numerous interviews over the years. The only thing we can't really know for sure is exactly how Trevor felt about some things. Most things he's actually spoken out about. I recall clearly an interview with Trevor from the early 80's where he said that he did not want the band to be called Yes, and that he knew fans would see him as changing the band's sound.

No, no one held a gun to his head, but it was pretty much the business equivalent. "You know you want your music to be heard. You will call it Yes, or we will not promote it or back it in any way. Your call."

I personally don't care for Trevor Rabin's style, but I will admit that he's pretty damned talented, and a good guy, and yes, there are some songs from "the Rabin era" that are pretty good. And since we cannot know for sure, I still maintain that there's a chance that Yes would not be around today if "Cinema" had never existed.

Orbert

1yesfan
05-18-2004, 06:26 AM
As for Yes being around today w/out Rabin in the 80's. I have sorta changed my TUNE on this one. I used to think they would have not been but ALL the line up changes over the years since then leads me to believe they would have still got back together. Perhaps ABWH would have been the start of it!

Mr. Holland
05-18-2004, 07:27 AM
Great post Wolfman and very fact based on most points! In general I think indeed Trevor doesn't need any defending, but sometimes we Rabin-era fans (I am as much a Rabin era fan as I am a Trooper fan btw)do, when we feel things are put in his shoes, that shouldn't be. A lot of troopers who don't like Yeswest, always tend to blame Rabin for the course Yes went and indeed as Wolfman pointed out so well, this is so untrue. Also in this thread...."any line-up that can't play even Awaken". Well the Rabin era line-up first off all could perform Awaken, they did so (agreed together with the ABWH line-up) on the Union tour, witch is still one of the best versions they did to this day and age (subjective, I know!) and for a big part because of what Trevor as a second guitarist added to this song. And I want to emphasise Wolfman's point that when it was decided Cinema was going to be Yes and they would start touring it was indeed Trevor who pushed for more obscure Yes songs out of the past to be played, but it was more or less Jon and Chris who pushed for the "hit's of the 70's" like ISAGP, Starship Trooper and Roundabout. It has always been either Jon and/or Chris who for the biggest part decided where Yes was headed.

Now, people can love Yeswest music or hate it, but it would be nice to see people stop "blaming" Trevor for things, he's not to blame for........