The Ladder Vote [Archive] - Yesfans.com: Founded 4/01

Dantalion Rides Again

02-19-2004, 09:10 AM

I'm not with BredYes and Mr. Holland. Sorry guys. I like YesWest and all, but I must have a different brand of ears than a lot of other yesfans around here . . . Talk is near the bottom of the list for me, and (brace yourselves) I actually like Union better. :ignore:

:shrug:

I voted "agree" because I feel like Total Mass does - Ladder has that majestic feel to it that's been absent from a lot of Yes material over the past 25 years or so.

I also don't think "Homeworld" is the best track - or at least it's not my favorite. I prefer the next four tracks that follow "Homeworld" in fact. My favorite might be "It Will Be A Good Day", which I'll take over any YesWest era song, any day.

Not that I'm willing to part with my YesWest discs, mind you. Those are good albums in their own right . . . not trying to propel the argument here! I'm just sayin'. :D

Full Tilt Boogie

02-19-2004, 09:25 AM

R'tanys

02-19-2004, 09:33 AM

The Ladder has become one of my favorite Yes albums. I think the strongest tracks are To Be Alive, The Messenger, and the Lightning Strikes/Face To Face progression. Great stuff, and stronger than the West material, although there's great stuff there as well.

Mr. Holland

02-19-2004, 10:02 AM

I also don't think "Homeworld" is the best track - or at least it's not my favorite. I prefer the next four tracks that follow "Homeworld" in fact. My favorite might be "It Will Be A Good Day", which I'll take over any YesWest era song, any day.

Mostley the complains about Rabin era material is that it is to much pop/rock. That is how I look at a song like "it will be a good day". Not that it isn't a good song, but to my ears it is a rather simple pop(isch) song and I think that songs like Hearts, I'm Running and Endless Dream for example have much more to offer.....

Dantalion Rides Again

02-19-2004, 10:52 AM

Mostley the complains about Rabin era material is that it is to much pop/rock. That is how I look at a song like "it will be a good day". Not that it isn't a good song, but to my ears it is a rather simple pop(isch) song and I think that songs like Hearts, I'm Running and Endless Dream for example have much more to offer.....

Good post, Mr. Holland. I've often read that complaint. And I agree that the Ladder & OYE have pop tendencies. And I also agree that I'm Running and occasional bits of Endless Dream offer writing that's more complex than It Will Be A Good Day from the Ladder.

But while the 'Silent Spring' bit of "Endless Dream" is fast and impressive (most of the rest of that tune is very pop in it's composition), it doesn't really move me the way It Will Be A Good Day does. There's this visionary atmosphere to the two newest Yes studio albums ~ that element is just crucial to my passion for this band. Pop, metal, jazzy, progressive, . . . whatever the genre they're going for doesn't matter. It's whether or not the music is inspired and inspiring.

And you know, I've always had trouble seeing what the big deal is with "Hearts". My least favorite on 90125. Or maybe second-to-last on my 90125 list. It's not complex at all, actually . . . it's just a little lengthy with an end that echoes Awaken (actually I do like that ending!).

I'm Running is good and involved though. And it's intense too, so it's moving. Big Generator, man. I think that album has moving moments all over it, and for that reason, that's the YesWest album that compares well to the Ladder.

Bluetailfly

02-19-2004, 10:58 AM

I like the last three Yes studio works all betther than Rabin era material: Keys 1 and 2, The Ladder and Magnification in that order. Makes me hopeful that what is coming next will progress to even new heights.
As far as The Ladder goes, there is much to like, Homeworld, It Will Be A Good Day, Nine Voices, The Messenger...
When I first heard the Ladder, I became ever hopeful that Yes was back after being away for so long. Actually Keys signaled it, but I wasn't sure, and hearing The Ladder confirmed it. And they haven't proved us wrong have they?

Mr. Holland

02-19-2004, 11:00 AM

Well, Dantalion, music is all in the ears of the beholder....or something like that!

I like the Ladder a lot btw, has some good music on it and for me goes, nothing against a good pop/rock song. That is one the things I love about Yes. The deversity of all the albums. They have never been afraid to try things out, in whatever musical direction it took them. And because there has always been such craftmenship within the band, writing an composing and playing, they've always come up with good songs. Ofcourse almost every album also has a couple of tunes on them that are not that impressive, but on the other hand every album carries at least a few supurb tunes and there are not many bands or artists that have acomplished that. So here's to Yes, the greatest band there is!!

Dantalion Rides Again

02-19-2004, 11:18 AM

Another fine post by Mr. Holland! :D

Yeah, I've gotten used to the idea that I have relatively unique opinions about some Yes stuff. I seldom read that anyone else loves Union but doesn't care for "Miracle of Life" for example (another simple pop tune with a complicated and impressive intro ;)). And I try and try to relate to the heavy praise that Talk gets, but I just don't see it. So many other people smash Union but give praise to "Miracle of Life", and "Talk" gets a lot of love around here.

I'm with you on Yes's diversity. Sometimes I wonder why with a band like Rush, their entire catalog is well respected (for the most part) by their fan base, and obviously this isn't the case with Yes. But it must be that Rush doesn't change all that much, comparatively. And you know . . . there's only one former member!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway, back on topic here . . .

As for the origin of the thread . . . that first post's quote: does it actually quote someone Bren?

Personally I prefer the Ladder to any of the Rabin era albums, but I feel there are songs on those albums that are better than a handful of the tunes from the Ladder, know what I'm sayin'? Meaning to say, "I'm Running" beats out "Finally" or whatever.

Full Tilt Boogie

02-19-2004, 12:42 PM

Anyway, back on topic here . . .

As for the origin of the thread . . . that first post's quote: does it actually quote someone Bren?

Personally I prefer the Ladder to any of the Rabin era albums, but I feel there are songs on those albums that are better than a handful of the tunes from the Ladder, know what I'm sayin'? Meaning to say, "I'm Running" beats out "Finally" or whatever.

Hey Kev,

No, it's not a quote from anyone, just a question I drummed up.

I just have difficulty with Rabin-era stuff - it's 'bitty' (a hugely technical musical term, with which not all of you will be familiar :D) and I'm left waiting for parts I can get into - which kinda ruins the individual songs....let alone the albums as a whole! You get the impressionn that just about anyone could have written the Rabin-era stuff - and that's just not good enough for YES IMHO.

Rabin might very well be good at rendering 'thrash-metal' versions of some of the classic Yes canon, but his West-coast-AOR stuff just ruins it for me. I winced through the Union DVD whenever he'd add a 'tweak' or 'run' or inappropriate solo where Howe was just cracking-on with business - as I've said, like painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa!!

And ultimately, I can not look at Rabin on stage without seeing Nigel Tufnel - he of Spinal Tap fame - in his place :D For me Rabin is "solos-for-solos'-sake" (my quote).....where what I seek is variety for God's sake!

Lastly, on Ladder, you're never left thinking that Anderson has been suborned to the junior rank of mere backing singer - where as on the Rabin-era stuff, there are vast tracts where we have to suffer only Rabin's interminable warbling, making Yes sound like a generic AOR band!! Not on my watch!

On Ladder, Anderson is firmly back in the chair and the 'Yes-sound' is once more resident and to the fore; alas, not the case in '90125', 'Big Girl Jenny' and 'Chat'. There are two ways to do acceptable (to me) 'pop': The Ladder has some fine Yes examples along with examples and elements of the 'Classic' band of yore.

The other (wrong) way is the Rabin-era stuff: strictly speaking, Yes music was never meant to be 'commercial' or crammed into a 3 minute pop-ditty (anyone remember TFTO??), taking in the all too common West-coast arse themes of 'save me until dawn'....'can't make it without you'.....'you are my reason for being'......'beanfields in blue sedans' and copious other poltroonery too numerous to mention. Let him get on with his film scores, he's obviously adept at it and Hollywood will, largely, buy anything. Just keep him away from YES!!

There, rant over :D

SallyKhatru

02-19-2004, 01:36 PM

Oh dear, would be interesting to read what you all wrote above, but my brother wants me to let him use the computer so I´ll keep it short and read it later.
The Ladder was my second YEs Album after OYE and I absolutely loved it. I only listened to that one for weeks. It was the point of no return, I was comnpletely addicted to YES. I acutually wanted to vote for agree, but then I thought it over and remembered TALK, which was such a great production and also I think that Trevor helped them to survive in a very hard time, he did a lot for them and I doubt if there would still be a YES if it wouldn´t have been for him. Anyway, THe Ladder is one of my all time favourites and it always makes me incredibly happy. It was also my first tour and it´s somethign very, very special for me.

Silent_wings

02-19-2004, 07:07 PM

I love The Ladder and “Homeworld” is a great song but “Endless Dream” is even better. Talk gets much more time in my Cd player than The Ladder.

bdyescall

02-19-2004, 07:19 PM

I think "Homeworld" is one to be on this tour.--Never heard it live.
I could be mistaken here, but, sounds like Steve Howe on that record.
I love the "Ladder", but, also love .--"Talk".--Peggy!, thoughts?--HELP!!!!!

PeterCologne

02-19-2004, 07:55 PM

Talk and 90125 are better. Homeworld (a new classic) is the best song on the Ladder.

Agree with BredYes too, but add another album, that beats The Ladder easily: Big Generator. Though, I like the Ladder, it has the broadest range of styles of all Yes-albums. Never liked Homeworld too much, think it is a little clichee-Yes. But New Language and It Will Be A Good Day are my favourites.

Greetings

Peter

GoD57

02-19-2004, 10:02 PM

I not only agree with that statement, I think Homeworld is the best song Yes has written since Awaken. And that includes anything from Magnification.
I just purchased my first copy of 90125 in any format and I'm glad I did, it's a fine album. I also like Big Generator but find Talk to be a waste of a cd. Sorry, but I can't think of any other way to describe it.

Bill

Simon B

02-20-2004, 04:03 AM

Hey Kev,

No, it's not a quote from anyone, just a question I drummed up.

I just have difficulty with Rabin-era stuff - it's 'bitty' (a hugely technical musical term, with which not all of you will be familiar :D) and I'm left waiting for parts I can get into - which kinda ruins the individual songs....let alone the albums as a whole! You get the impressionn that just about anyone could have written the Rabin-era stuff - and that's just not good enough for YES IMHO.

Rabin might very well be good at rendering 'thrash-metal' versions of some the classic Yes canon, but his West-coast-AOR stuff just ruins it for me. I winced through the Union DVD whenever he'd add a 'tweak' or 'run' or inappropriate solo where Howe was just cracking-on with business - as I've said, like painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa!!

And ultimately, I can not look at Rabin on stage without seeing Nigel Tufnel - he of Spinal Tap fame - in his place :D For me Rabin is "solos-for-solos'-sake" (my quote).....where what I seek is variety for God's sake!

Lastly, on Ladder, you're never left thinking that Anderson has been suborned to the junior rank of mere backing singer - where as on the Rabin-era stuff, there are vast tracts where we have to suffer only Rabin's interminable warbling, making Yes sound like a generic AOR band!! Not on my watch!

On Ladder, Anderson is firmly back in the chair and the 'Yes-sound' is once more resident and to the fore; alas, not the case in '90125', 'Big Girl Jenny' and 'Chat'. There are two ways to do acceptable (to me) 'pop': The Ladder has some fine Yes examples along with examples and elements of the 'Classic' band of yore.

The other (wrong) way is the Rabin-era stuff: strictly speaking, Yes music was never meant to be 'commercial' or crammed into a 3 minute pop-ditty (anyone remember TFTO??), taking in the all too common West-coast arse themes of 'save me until dawn'....'can't make it without you'.....'you are my reason for being'......'beanfields in blue sedans' and copious other poltroonery too numerous to mention. Let him get on with his film scores, he's obviously adept at it and Hollywood will, largely, buy anything. Just keep him away from YES!!

There, rant over :D

Oooooooo (HANDBAG CLUTCHED TO BREAST) Bren! I'm glad you shared man, let it out, move away from the hammer and breath with Simon, c'mon, breath, now put on GFTO and relax!

Here's something new for the muso's - I have tuned my 12 string to an open E setting in order to get my chubby fingers around 9 Voices (IMHO, Steve's best 12 string work out since AYAI). Here's the rub. I believe this to be the only time Steve has used an open tuning in ANY YES format?? Anyone want to challenge that statement??

I need to know, so may start a new 'open tuning' thread if I don't get an answer today...

Dr Mass - Stress therapist

Full Tilt Boogie

02-20-2004, 07:11 AM

Oooooooo (HANDBAG CLUTCHED TO BREAST) Bren! I'm glad you shared man, let it out, move away from the hammer and breath with Simon, c'mon, breath, now put on GFTO and relax!

Dr Mass - Stress therapist

LOL! Yeah, sorry mate, went off one there just a tad, what? :D

And, the fact I am currently all cammo'd up and sitting atop this clock-tower with a 'scoped-rifle is in no way indicative on my usual bon-homie! :D

Later,

Bren.

bender

02-24-2004, 01:45 AM

Posted by Bren:

"there are vast tracts where we have to suffer only Rabin's interminable warbling"

Don't tell me that you dont like Trevors singing ;)

Finally, someone who shares the same opinion as me :D

I like about 50% of the Yes West stuff, but just when a song's getting good, Trevor opens up his mouth and ruins it! I really can't stand his voice, to me all Yes of this period would be better if only Jon and Chris were singing.

And I voted for the Ladder. I think ED off Talk is better than any one song off the Ladder, but IMO no whole YesWest album is as good as the Ladder.

YesfanAndy

02-29-2004, 04:41 PM

This should say it all.

Top 5 YES Albums (for me)

1. Going For The One
2. Tales From Topographic Oceans
3. The Ladder
4. Close To The Edge
5. The Yes Album

I've been pretty outspoken in support of "The Ladder" Check some of my older posts, I'm sure you'll find plenty of support for "The Ladder" from me.

Andy

Erdy1

03-01-2004, 04:11 PM

The Ladder had some wonderful songs on it, but it had some really awefull ones too. With this in mind, Big Generator and Talk were both overall better IMO -- but HomeWorld would easily be my favorite track out of the albums in question.

As for The Ladder being more progressive, that's only true for some of the songs. "Endless Dream" and "I'm Running" are both very progressive Rabin-era songs. "Hep Yadda" and "It Will Be a Good Day" are anything but progressive.

Now if this vote concerned the KTAII tracks versus Rabin-era Yes, there would be no contest. KTAII was the best Yes for a very long time. I so want to hear Mind Drive live!

jim665

04-17-2004, 08:03 PM

I'd rate the Ladder and Talk very highly among Yes albums. They are difficult to compare because the respective lineups each bring their own unique energy and perspective. With Talk we were finally able to see what Jon and Trevor could accomplish when working together and for them to produce something as elegant as Endless Dream, I thought was quite impressive. On the other hand, the Ladder contains some of the most appealing and well conceived melodies that the band has ever done.

WhiteKnight

04-26-2004, 09:52 AM

I guess the truth, the uncomfortable truth might sound like this:

90125 is a better album than Ladder
Ladder is a better Yes album than 90125

I mean, Ladder feels very Yes to me. Not a top-notch work, but a very good one as you would expect from Yes.

Among all the Rabin era's works, 90125 is the one that feels less like Yes. Yet I would consider it the best from that era, and possibly better than the Ladder, at least in the sense that it did break some new ground, much more so than the Ladder.

A very tough one. I voted the Ladder just because I love Yes over progressive rock, or rock altogether.

WK

Trouserpress

05-07-2004, 07:20 AM

Purely for Homeworld, I have to agree.

the'YES'kid

05-07-2004, 06:02 PM

I totally disagree.

Talk is a much better album than The Ladder.

Scooty

05-15-2004, 04:51 AM

I totally disagree.

Talk is a much better album than The Ladder.

Reniet..your my buddy..my pal but

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

So wrong...so so wrong
The Ladder was a phenomenal album...awesome..spoke volumes to me. Homeworld, New Languages, Lightning Strikes, Finally...all better than anything TR had to do with (not dissing him..Jane and Judy) :)
reinvestigate....but again..this is just one fans opinion..and your still my man!
Scott

SallyKhatru

05-15-2004, 08:46 AM

I love both. Personally The Ladder touches me more, maybe one reason for that is that my first YES show ever was The Ladder in 2000.
New Language, Homeworld, The River, To Feel Alive... so mayn great songs

But also it can happen, Leave it, owner are great songs, feel very differene, but are great nonetheless.

Gabriel

05-15-2004, 10:07 AM

mattos

06-25-2004, 05:31 PM

Okay Bren, looking good so far.

For me the ladder is a return to the more progressive yes - I love some of the Rabin stuff and would never Dis that era as others will (Okay Judystrevor, I like Trevor too!) - but The ladder takes me to that place only yes can, Rabin's era takes me to a place Tull, Kings of Leon, Wishbone Ash, The Darkness etc. also take me!

TM

YES!!! You read in my mind!!!

custom55

07-01-2004, 11:44 AM

BIG G is still my fav Steve-less albums. Can't say anymore about it right now...I'm at work.

the'YES'kid

07-16-2004, 08:27 AM

Reniet..your my buddy..my pal but

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

So wrong...so so wrong
The Ladder was a phenomenal album...awesome..spoke volumes to me. Homeworld, New Languages, Lightning Strikes, Finally...all better than anything TR had to do with (not dissing him..Jane and Judy) :)
reinvestigate....but again..this is just one fans opinion..and your still my man!
Scott

most songs on The Ladder are WAY better than "Walls", "The Calling", etc.
but "Endless Dream"............. :bowdown:
get's me teared eyes.

SallyKhatru

07-16-2004, 08:30 AM

Wouldn't necessarily say that they are so far better. The Clling, Walls they have the same energy as some songs on the Ladder. Both great albums, that's what I say. New Language is a wonderful "almost" epic, ED is a wonderful ("almost?") epic. Two great albums I am happy to call my own.

the'YES'kid

07-16-2004, 08:34 AM

New Language is a wonderful "almost" epic...

New Languages is by far my fav song on The Ladder. What a shame they played that song in just a few shows (I think it was in south america).
It would've been great if they had played it at the House of Yes.

:crybby:

SallyKhatru

07-16-2004, 08:47 AM

I used to actually ignore New Languages for quite a long time. I was 10 when I got tha ladder and the intro was too long for me. I was mainly into the singing parts, you know. But as it happened with most of the songs I used to ignore at first, they became my favourite songs. When I found out that I actually love the songs I usually ignore I gave Gates of delirium another listen and you can imagine what happened love that song.
But New languages is really special, was the beginning of me listening to the longer songs, all the epics. Amazing, powerful song. Also love It'll be a good day (sooo positive and motivating), also To be alive, Lightning strikes, ...what a fresh and energetic album

Stever

07-31-2004, 09:47 AM

I don't have much in the way of a comment here. I don't even know how to respond to a majority who apparently think the Ladder is better than ANYTHING from the Rabin era. For whatever good it does, I popped an extra disagree vote on here. I like the Ladder a lot. It's a nice album, and has 2 or three very strong and memorable cuts on it. But.....overall.....Better than 90125, BG and Talk?? I don't think so. Those were all very strong, totally cohesive and consistently brilliant albums. What this thread became, I'm afraid, is yet another referendum on whether or not folks accepted the work of the Trevor Rabin based Yes band as a positive turn of events or not. I don't think this is really about the albums. If so.....wow! Even the trooper side of me is a little stunned that this many people think that one pretty good album was better than TR's entire body of work with the band. Very eye opening and to me disappointing and sad. Not as many yeswholes out there as I must have thought.

brotherofmine

07-31-2004, 09:55 AM

I don't think this is really about the albums. If so.....wow! Even the trooper side of me is a little stunned that this many people think that one pretty good album was better than TR's entire body of work with the band. Very eye opening and to me disappointing and sad. Not as many yeswholes out there as I must have thought.
I love The Ladder and personally I do believe it is better than any of TR era BUT and it's a BIG BUT I love the TR stuff AS WELL. The 80's was a different more rockier Yes, it was made it survive the difficult musical times of the 80's post punk. I think TR breathed fresh life into Yes at that time, and he made a big contribution towards it's continued survival. I also love Union, I felt spoilt to have the musical talents of TR and SH on the same album. Of the other things TR did with Yes I think '90125' really stands out,was not so impressed with BG and Talk. I agree with Stever we have had this West vs. Trooper debate already and I don't think it makes sense to go over old ground again. we all know where we stand on this issue. I personally like both eras.

yessongs72

07-31-2004, 09:58 AM

Timmo

08-18-2004, 05:17 PM

IMHO, The Ladder is the best Yes Album since Tormato. I like "White Knight" feel that The Ladder has that Yes feel,sound to me. The Rabin stuff isn't a Yes sound, except for Endless Dream may come close.

90125 was the best of the Rabin era, Talk second, BG sucked.

Here are my top 5 Yes albums.

1. Tales
2. Close To The Edge
3. The Yes Album
4. Relayer (Rick would have been better on keys)
5. Tormato

I also don't own Trauma,BG, or OYE. I did buy them, listened to them and took them into a music store for trade. I still own Union and will trade it,I think it's a bunch of crap. I also think Magnification is the best since Tales. So you can see the type of Yes music I like. I am a TROOPER!!I'm mostly with ST on this one, except 1) I'd put Relayer at number one, and I DON'T think it would have been better with Rick, and 2) I also LOVE the KeyStudios material.

Saying 90125 is the best of the Rabin era is, to me, like saying that one of the huge ugly boils on my butt is better because it's slightly smaller.

(And NO, I don't really have boils on my butt or anywhere else!)

TIM
The REAL Trooper! (j/k ST!)
Venice, CA

cinderella

08-18-2004, 10:27 PM

Better than 90125, BG and Talk?? I don't think so. Those were all very strong, totally cohesive and consistently brilliant albums. What this thread became, I'm afraid, is yet another referendum on whether or not folks accepted the work of the Trevor Rabin based Yes band as a positive turn of events or not. I don't think this is really about the albums. If so.....wow! Even the trooper side of me is a little stunned that this many people think that one pretty good album was better than TR's entire body of work with the band. Very eye opening and to me disappointing and sad. Not as many yeswholes out there as I must have thought.

What he said!

(And NO, I don't really have boils on my butt or anywhere else!)

TIM
The REAL Trooper! (j/k ST!)
Venice, CA

Let me get the wand! http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/magic.gif

soul warrior

08-18-2004, 10:28 PM

its hard to do but comparing the rabin years albums one at a time against the ladder. i have to put the ladder on top. no slam here to rabin. just head to head competition. what puts the ladder over the top, in a tight race, for me is nine voices . a very underated song. for me it ir the best yes song since awaken. only problem with it is the song is about 5 minutes too short. oh well thats just my opinion.

yesmandroc

09-04-2004, 11:25 AM

I belive it is about as good as Big Generator, which is my favorite rabin album.

paulovajao

09-10-2004, 08:00 AM

i prefer Talk!!BUT I LIKE MOSTLY ALL THE ALBUNS OF RABIN ERA!!!XCEPT UNION I NEVER GOT IT QUITE WELL,GO FIGURES!!

brotherofmine

09-14-2004, 12:39 PM

i prefer Talk!!BUT I LIKE MOSTLY ALL THE ALBUNS OF RABIN ERA!!!XCEPT UNION I NEVER GOT IT QUITE WELL,GO FIGURES!!
Sorry Paulo have to disagree with you there I LOve The Ladder and always regret having missed that tour, and Union is one of my favourite albums.

Original_Shifty

09-24-2004, 04:45 PM

It's not quite as good as 90125, but with one more song like homeworld or new language, it would have surpassed it for me.

justyes

11-26-2004, 09:28 AM

I think Endless Dream is nice, and I like I'm running, but except of this Ladder IS better than anything from the Rabin period.

Amy

12-10-2004, 06:38 PM

I totally agree.
The Ladder is far better than anything from the Rabin period.
I have to go back and read this thread, it should be interesting.

rickweber

12-10-2004, 08:24 PM

I've always enjoyed The Ladder a lot, but 90125, Big Generator, Union and Talk get more air play around here. I found a vinyl double lp of The Ladder and I love to spin records, so I do hear it often too. No complaints about The Ladder. I'm still spazzin' out with Drama.

Timmo

12-21-2004, 09:48 PM

Ladder wins hands down for me over Rabin material.

It's kind of Yes-Lite, but in a very appealing way.

Lightning Strikes is so goofy ya just gotta love it.

yesmandroc

12-21-2004, 10:01 PM

I love The Ladder as much as I love Big Generator (and I love Big Generator).

Here's something to the Ladder's credit: the flutist I play with owns only The Ladder and she likes Yes.

tardistraveler

12-30-2004, 01:28 PM

I love The Ladder, as a matter of fact I'm listening to it right now!

It's an album of hope for me - a celebration of life and love. It moves my soul.

None of the Rabin-era albums move me in the same way The Ladder does. I'm not Rabin-bashing - I love those albums too. The Ladder just strikes a chord that I need sometimes - like today.

crotale2112

01-02-2005, 02:05 PM

over production sucks. the feel of a song is as important as the sound. much like yours is no disgrace live on yessongs.i dont like the sound or the way it was produced but i love the feel of it and the energy that i can sence when i hear it.that recording captured a strong moment in time....powerful guitar work and a sence that the band was having a fantastic time and having alot of fun jammming out that tune.i hope over the years trevor rabin will have more respect for the art of making music....not producing it . being able to create the sound and emotion of a rain drop with a guitar and to do so without using a strat. as trevor says in yesyears he had a hard time pinning jon down....by tring to pin jon down you are also trying to pin down myself and all yes fans....trevor needs to learn that emotional raindrop chord and not dwell on the production.fantastic songs can be recorded on a simple 4 track.....anyways i should shut up now and go listen to final eyes.................i love that song

Scaramouche

01-02-2005, 05:20 PM

I agree because it seems they were at last once again following their own musical direction and not catering for the radio stations and the top of the pops crowd. Although some of the Rabin era was great it was never like the old days.......until now.

allgoodyes

01-03-2005, 12:31 AM

Although I enjoy the music from the Trevor Rabin era of Yes very much, The Ladder is my favourite Yes album of the 1990s. Homeworld, Finally, and New Languages really rock! The first two minutes and six seconds of New Languages contains the hottest original keyboard work Ivor Khoroshev contributed to Yes during his brief tenure with the band. And Be A Good Day, Lightning Strikes, To Be Alive (Hep Yadda), and Nine Voices have an emotionally uplifting quality.

Amy

01-03-2005, 12:39 AM

The first two minutes and six seconds of New Languages contains the hottest original keyboard work Ivor Khoroshev contributed to Yes during his brief tenure with the band.
Isn't it so awesome??!! I was totally floored when I heard that. So much so, that I was totally disappointed when Jon started singing...and the whole sound of the song changed. Of course, then I continued to listen to the rest of the song and some really neat parts came back again.
The whole album is so good....and now that I've heard it quite a few times, it all fits together nicely. But I will never forget the songs that instantly blew me away. Homeworld and the intro to New Language. It Will Be A Good Day....almost as much. But those two grabbed me right away.

Nairauqa

01-03-2005, 08:44 AM

Rabin's contribution to the bands change in direction sound wise is surely a good thing. Without it we would not be able to judge, chat, argue and compare this era with what went before and beyond.

It gave yes a new edge, gained them new fans, broke the strain of inevitability which ultimately saw a welcomed return to yes roots music with a purpose, which perhaps would have been unacheivable without the in between years.

Rabin for me was a breath of fresh air.

They should never be considered the wilderness years.

Olias of Sunhillow

02-09-2005, 08:13 PM

After keys 1 and 2 (except for the live material) and open your eyes The Ladder finaly is a great album again. It almost brings back the old YES.

satyam

02-10-2005, 09:50 AM

I will have to disagree, have you all listened to TALK lately its far better than the ladder which has some good tracks but at times goes off course

Talk was a much more solid effort and possibly Alan White's best performance in years he has been rather laid back in the last couple of albums

I personally think that Endless Dream is Yes West's "Awaken"

It was an album that allowed Trevor and Tony to leave with dignity

yarstruly

02-10-2005, 09:56 AM

I'm with Bredyes here....

Me Too...Talk & 90125 are just slightly better in my book...

rabinmovies

02-10-2005, 11:51 AM

The ladder is a damn good album. The only weak songs that don't do it for me is new languages and hep yadda. I much prefer 90125, big generator and talk thou. There's just something magical about the rabin era of yes that i can just keep listening to over and over again, But albums like open your eyes, the ladder and magnification loses that sparkle after quite a few listens. They just get put back on my cd rack and they are forgotten about.

SonicDeath10

05-31-2005, 12:01 AM

I love the Rabin years but The Ladder is one of the best albums of the 90's.

luckeydoug1

11-06-2005, 11:31 PM

Hmmm, I dont think so at all; Talk alone is a fantastic album and not one to ignore no matter how much you hate Rabin and the other albums produced some fantastic songs as well, such as Shoot High, Aim Low, I'm Running, Changes, City of Love, Hearts, Final Eyes etc so I dont think The Ladder is better than all of those. However, its still a fantastic album dont get me wrong but definatly not better than ANYTHING Rabin did with the band!

I don't even know how to respond to a majority who apparently think the Ladder is better than ANYTHING from the Rabin era. For whatever good it does, I popped an extra disagree vote on here. I like the Ladder a lot. It's a nice album, and has 2 or three very strong and memorable cuts on it. But.....overall.....Better than 90125, BG and Talk?? I don't think so. Those were all very strong, totally cohesive and consistently brilliant albums. What this thread became, I'm afraid, is yet another referendum on whether or not folks accepted the work of the Trevor Rabin based Yes band as a positive turn of events or not. I don't think this is really about the albums. If so.....wow! Even the trooper side of me is a little stunned that this many people think that one pretty good album was better than TR's entire body of work with the band. Very eye opening and to me disappointing and sad. Not as many yeswholes out there as I must have thought.

The ladder is a damn good album. There's just something magical about the rabin era of yes that i can just keep listening to over and over again,

I just finished listening to this CD for the first time and was struck by how much several of the songs reminded me of YesWest. I was about to start a thread on this very topic when I discovered this one. Ladder has some outstanding tracks: Homeward, To Be Alive, Finally, The Message and New Language are outstanding. Lightning Strikes, on the otherhand does very little for me. I am totally amazed (well not really, after reading many of the threads on this board, but should be) how anyone can say the album is better than any of the Trevor Rabin era albums, when this one is quite similar in many ways. I guess it just took a lineup without Trevor to write and perform songs that could just as easily have been on 90125, BG or Talk, for the classic Yes fans to accept this type of music. For me much of this album is very pop oriented, and isn't that the very criticism leveled at YesWest?

I like quite a bit of this album, but to say it is better than any of the Trevor-era Yes albums is, indeed, a far stretch.

SonicDeath10

11-07-2005, 12:12 AM

I don't judge the music based on who's in the band; I judge it based on the quality. I just think with this album, the band really did an amazing job. I love 90125, Big Generator, and Talk, but to me this album is more interesting.

Albedo

12-01-2005, 02:12 PM

Depends if you mean technically, objectively better or do I like it better?

I prefer the Ladder. I'm playing it now and it's infectious.

But Talk is really a great album and if you want to take emotion out of it (which is impossible I guess) you could call it better than the Ladder. My favorite of Yes West.

new_sum_do_solve_ay

12-01-2005, 02:51 PM

The Ladder is better than SOME of the Rabin-period releases.

Store Hadji

12-01-2005, 07:56 PM

great album

a little too pop in the production

i love best it's moments when it starts sounding like fragile and topographic oceans

cinderella

12-31-2005, 12:57 AM

Amazingly The Ladder has one of my very very favorite Yes songs on it which is If Only You Knew. I'd rather listen to it than any other Yes song.

Except for the Trevor ones that is. :D

new_sum_do_solve_ay

12-31-2005, 08:53 AM

Hey what happened to the piano doll??! I was enjoying that!

Well, that's an awesome song Cindi! I bet you liked Air Supply and Richard Marx too. :lmao:

Joe

12-31-2005, 08:54 AM

The Ladder is awesome!
Igor Khoroshev does a great job.
It's too bad about the way he had to leave.

cjreyes

12-31-2005, 04:19 PM

I'd say that The Ladder is probably better than any album put out during the YES period. Don't get me started.

luckeydoug1

01-01-2006, 09:31 PM

It is a very nice album, but there are quite a few songs with Rabin influences in them!

Wakey's #1 Fan

06-03-2007, 06:47 PM

"The Ladder" is more Prog than the 80s stuff, "the Messenger" and "New Languages" are great tracks...and so I voted for "The Ladder"...

Jackaranda

06-03-2007, 07:06 PM

I like the House of Yes versions better than the studio versions. I wish they'd done To Be Alive live.

gathernear

05-15-2008, 09:11 PM

I like the House of Yes versions better than the studio versions. I wish they'd done To Be Alive live.

I don't think they played To Be Alive very often. I love that song. The Ladder is very underrated in my opinion.

yeslife

05-16-2008, 02:05 AM

Define "procuded".

Life? Yes!

Suntower Asking

05-17-2008, 03:04 PM

I have mixed feelings about this album.

I can say without hesitation that :

Homeworld,To be alive,Lighning strikes and nine voices are great songs.

But on the whole this album does not please me and would have to say that 90125 would be a stronger album all around.

A lot of the songs on this album seem very new age and poppy. I don't like the production of a lot of the songs either.

To me it gets to sounding like an Anderson solo album with Yes members happening to be there to back him up.

While it's obvious they were trying to move in the right direction they missed the mark most of the time.

Homeworld is a classic and stands up against anything they ever made. but the album goes nowhere after this song.

I like Magnification better but even that album is a far cry from the prog of the past.

If Yes go back to the studio they have to crank out some Rock and roll. and get a little bit dirty. their sound has become so sterile and over produced. Somebody give these guys a recent Neil Young album as a refence point. While Neil is not my favorite musician i like his stuff and his albums have that classic warm sound to them.