A good "Union" song?

[Roman]

I know that so many of you don't like the "Union" album. So I decided to start this poll. Is there a song (or songs) on "Union" that you - maybe even though you don't like the album - think is a really good song?
What about "Without Hope..." (especially the intro), "The More We Live..." and "Angkor Wat"?

[InverYes]

Lift Me Up is my daughters favourite. Plays it whenever she can and its starting to grow on me. I'll vote for that one on her behalf.

[Original_Shifty]

I love The More We Live....

I have to always skip, Saving My Heart, it hurts my EARS!...

[chrisloeb]

I chose Shock To The System, not that I'm totally into the song, but the guitar riff is great.

On a side note... Evensong is more a piece of music than a song, and if anybody'd like to hear more of this, check out Tony Levin's World Diary CD: 2 more pieces in that style!

[dyingpoet]

Union is an album full of explicit positives and negatives, but is comes out about even in the wash.

Some Negatives:

The mix is quite air-ey, and there are many parts that become lost in the clutter of all those session musicians.

"Evensong" would have made a good intro for a longer, more developed track. As it is, it provides little more than a weak tease and a wasted forty-or-so seconds of listening time.

"Saving My Heart" is just a shame. The problem is compounded, because you only have to hear it once, or just the first few bars if you don't skip to the next track in time, and the stupid thing sticks in your head. It is undeniably the weakest track on the CD.

The politics. The post-production nightmare that hacked Wakeman off, among others, really takes away from the purity of the music. You can never be sure who played what or whose idea was whose.

There is no logical progression to the music on the album. No trademark transitions between tracks, no album-wide theme, just a collection of songs. It is a top-40 formatted release by a classic art-rock/progressive band that doesn't work nearly as well as 90125 or even Talk or OYE, although on Union the songs themselves are better in some cases.

I checked the sleeve once, and was astonished to find that this album was recorded and mixed in over a dozen different studios in three different countries with different engineers, mixers and so on. Does this detract from the quality of the music? Maybe, maybe not, but it makes you wonder if there were ever more than two or three band members in one room together at any time before tour reherarsals began.

Some Positives:

"The More We Live - Let-Go" is a classic example of the deep-hearted, soul-ful expressionism that is a YES specialty. It is extremely well written, performed and produced, making it one of my all time favorite YES songs.

The vocal quality throughout the CD is better than it had been for several albums previous. "I Would Have Waited Forever, " "Shock to the System" and "Without Hope..." are good examples. It is so good, in fact, that I was insulted when the Best Rock Vocal Performance award at the Grammy's that year went to Aerosmith. (But then again, who respects the Grammy's amymore?)

"Angkor Wat" is mesmorizing. The deep, thunder-like synth effects and uneven pace, along with the unusually sensual vocal of Anderson produce a rich texture of sound, trailing off with the poetry, which I never have been able to have translated. It is ground-breaking without being gaudy, and establishes a relaxed and calm mood, cruelly and inappropriately broken by the next track.

Speaking of which, "Dangerous" is a good, solid rock track that is just progressive enough for me not to hate it, but rather, like it. It has a good mix, but should have been longer with a more developed solo section. It should also have been the first single release from the CD. With an honest attempt at promotion and perhaps a good video, it could have stood a chance of being a hit.

"Masquerade." There should be a Steve Howe-featured instrumental track or section on every YES album. This carries the tradion of "Clap," "Mood...," "The Ancient," "That, That is" and so on. It may seem like an easy play, but I saw him perform it live, up close, and it is tough; Well worthy of his talents, unlike most of the rest of the album it happens to be on.


The tracks not mentioned in this review are good, at least good enough to float the album to a listenable level. Not every YES fan likes this album, and they don't have to . But there is no excuse for not having it in your library.

- d.p.

[Johnni]

Sorry to hit you with this Dying Poet, but 'The More We Live' is not a Yes song. It's a Conspiracy song. There wasn't so much as a single changed note from Billy and Chris' version to what appeared on Union. This is also the reason it's the best song on the CD. Though I actually liked Union.
It is a hodge-podge of songs forced together, but there are some good pieces in there. Silent Talking, once they get to that particular spot is one of my favs. too bad they didn't expand on that theme more. I also like Without Hope.

[dyingpoet]

Okay, okay, one of my all time favorite songs to appear on a YES album....good enough? :)

- d.p.

[Johnni]

We'll let it slide for now....but we'll be watching you.....: ) I do agree with you though on Union.
I think some 'Yes' fans bash some albums simply because it's a popular thing to do within the 'Yes fan framework' of course. I happen to like something off every album. Some of course more than others. Drama-had quite a few bright spots. Talk- "ditto". OYE' I actually like a few tunes on that, as well as The Ladder.
Probably the album that gets the least mention overall is Big Generator. THis probably was the weakest effort to date and represented the most Trevor got his paws into them.

[dyingpoet]

I liked "Love Will Find a Way" and "Shoot High..." along with some moments from other tracks. Personally, I believe the weakest album is Tormato, except for the beautiful "Onward."

- d.p.

[Johnni]

Really?. I actually like that album a lot. I've heard Wakeman's criticism and I know the group was pulling apart at the time, but there are some very strong songs on there...Silent Wings..Future Times/Rejoice, Onward (as you mentioned). And I like Don't Kill the whale alot.
It had a very different sound to it as opposed to the other albums they had done up to that point (exception being Relayer). What's your take on Magnification?

[bjm0rwo]

I too think Tormato is their weakest effort.As Anderson has said,at this point they were all kind of tired of each other and it shows with the songwriting on this effort.As far as my favorite song on Union,I'll pick Masquerade.I know,it's a solo song with no other group involvement.But to me when I heard the alblum,it is the one song I wanted to re-listen to.Doesn't say much for this one in my opinion.I found it disjointed and meandering.It was obvious it was a hybrid Yes alblum with some session players thrown in there.I agree it would have been more interesting to have the 2 groups divided by the sides of the record.It may of been a whole different alblum and maybe more true to the songs and performances.This one sounds rushed.

[dyingpoet]

I really, really like Magnification so far. I posted an initial review on the thread that asked for reviews elsewhere in the forums, and I guess it's still up. Just look for my moniker under that thread if you'd like some specifrics.

- d.p.

[lindil]

Union is for me the most ironic of the post 70's works.
Why?
1. while I am no big fan of Yes 'west', I find myself liking the trevor tracks far more than the more than the ABWH tracks. exceptions being 'Take the Water to the Mountain' which to me along w/ Holy Lamb, Homeworld, It will be a good day, Magnification and 'in the presence of ' are the only to mee great yes Tracks [excluding the Keys/OYE tracks which I havn't heard inyears or at all].

My Union Report Card ; )

A - [4] Take theWater to the mountain, Miracle of Life,The more we live /Let Go, Evensong
B- [4] I would Have waited forever,Masqurerade,Saving my heart, Lift me up [except the intro!]
C- [2] Shock to the system [would rate higher but for the metal guitar chords, oh so remeniscent of Rabin !]
Angkor Wat [doesn't go any where to my mind]
D/F [4] - Without Hope,Silent talking [I like the quiet sections],Dangerous, Holding On

So there it is fo me I would only leave for songs off any 'Union' Tape I made.
But only four [the A songs] would make it onto my Yes Essentials tape.

It actually stacks up %wise about the same as everything from Tormato on, w/ a couple more A tunes than usual!
It is of course that it was so worked over by those other than Yes, Howe hopes I hear to see it Re-mixed.

[crazedyesfan]

well i kind of like saving my heart but the one song that i truly like is masquerade.

[Squireaholic]

Personally, I've never gone in for this whole 'like/not like' sophistry. I've always been pleased when new Yes hits the streets; I have every album, and I enjoy every album in it's own way. i think it's important to remember the circumstances surrounding each recording, and put the works into the context of their times. In the case of Union, it was an effort to 'close the gap' created by two divergent groups with the selfsame goals: to create inspiring, mind expanding music. I know I'm going to get some guff on this next statement, but: I don't care who is in the lineup release to release; it always says YES to me! I think Rick wakeman said it best in Yesyears (paraphasing here): it's the people there at the time who have the honor of continuing to make Yes music. I make these comments as a long time fan (I'm one of those folks who though Yes was a 'Weird English Electric Folk group' back in 1969...
I say celebrate Yes and all of their music. Rejoice in the blessing that we have been allowed to exist while Yes creates this joyous, beautiful music that enhances our lives, even at it's 'worst' moments!

[brismike]

Hi All - I've read all the posts in this thread and was surprised that no-one had mentioned "Miracle of Life" as a great track. This one is my favourite from this album and in fact I would put it in the top 10 of all Yes songs.

I played this track to a friend once who is not into Yes at all and I could see on his face during the furious intro that he was getting blown away by it all. I think it starts in 15/8 time or something weird like that but eventually resolves very nicely into 4/4.

Trevor has said that this is one song he regrets not ever performing live and I tend to agree with Him. Just think what the proposed new Union lineup might do with this one!!

"Sacred lives of oceans have been washed away like mud"
"You don't want my devotion, you'd rather be washed in Blood"

Mike

[Q]

brismike, you are so right. "Miracle of Life" rocks! If it hadn't been on Union, and if it didn't have Rabin's name on it, it would be winning polls and drawing mention all over the boards!

[Neverthirst]

i agree with brismike and quantum about 'miracle.' great tune. and for those of you who love to complain about the rabin-era, you should check your history. rabin was asked if he had any 'hits' to contribute to this 'union' and he offerred his own work. 'miracle of life' is one of these.

[Neverthirst]

Originally posted by Squireaholic
Personally, I've never gone in for this whole 'like/not like' sophistry. I've always been pleased when new Yes hits the streets; I have every album, and I enjoy every album in it's own way. i think it's important to remember the circumstances surrounding each recording, and put the works into the context of their times. In the case of Union, it was an effort to 'close the gap' created by two divergent groups with the selfsame goals: to create inspiring, mind expanding music. I know I'm going to get some guff on this next statement, but: I don't care who is in the lineup release to release; it always says YES to me! I think Rick wakeman said it best in Yesyears (paraphasing here): it's the people there at the time who have the honor of continuing to make Yes music. I make these comments as a long time fan (I'm one of those folks who though Yes was a 'Weird English Electric Folk group' back in 1969...
I say celebrate Yes and all of their music. Rejoice in the blessing that we have been allowed to exist while Yes creates this joyous, beautiful music that enhances our lives, even at it's 'worst' moments!

well said. Squireaholic. i respect that opinion. and agree.

[dyingpoet]

I must concur with the above. There is something to be said for taking the bad with the good. Fortunately for us, as far as YES is concerned, it's been mostly good to great!

- d.p.

[RobAdams]

I think MIRACLE OF LIFE is a terrific song. It's the best thing Rabin wrote for UNION. I think UNION is a better album than most of the fans and even the band members say it is. Too many extra musicians, but it is a decent album, in my opinion. I enjoy it.

[Neverthirst]

Originally posted by dyingpoet
I must concur with the above. There is something to be said for taking the bad with the good. Fortunately for us, as far as YES is concerned, it's been mostly good to great!

- d.p.
"good to great!" i like that D.P. that is a great yesfan attitude. nice to meet you.

[Neverthirst]

Originally posted by i-and-i
I think MIRACLE OF LIFE is a terrific song. It's the best thing Rabin wrote for UNION. I think UNION is a better album than most of the fans and even the band members say it is. Too many extra musicians, but it is a decent album, in my opinion. I enjoy it.

indeed, i-and-i. the UNION album is a worthy piece of work. different, yes. but a significant and enjoyable segment of Yes history. i saw the tour. what a show! so many of the Yes influences together ... breathtaking!

[brismike]

Hi there everyone .. I thought I would come back and check this thread out again. It's an interesting observation to see that the Yes west tracks are outpolling the Yes east
tracks.

I have seen elswhere that "Saving My Heart" has got a bit of a bagging by some Yes Fans which is fair enough. It is a bit cheesy but I think its reasonably ok as a poppy sort of easy going song. If it had been done by someone else it might have made the top 40 hahaha.. :))

I have an ex girlfriend who never even heard of Yes before she met me. When she heard "Saving My Heart" she loved it immediately. Thought it was the bees knees and made me make up a CDR for her with just that track on it.

I won't tell you what she said when she heard " The Revealing Science of God" the first time . :)) .. but by then the relationship was on a downhill slide anyway .. lol .. :))

Women who can work them out??

Apologies to the female Yes fans on here in advance .. :))

Mike

[Dragonfly]

It always surprises me how popular "The More We Live, Let Go" is. It's possibly my least favorite tune on UNION. This in itself is strange because I generally like Chris and Billy working together. (I'm a big OPEN YOUR EYES fan.)

There's just something about this song that annoys me. Oh, well. I've never concidered myself amongst the main stream. (Like any of the rest of you are - with a band like this as you favorite!)

Dragonfly :yesbird:

Oh, yeah. I voted for "Silent Talking". It was a tough call. I really like "Take the Water to the Mountain" as well as "Miracle of Life" and others.

[mrgone3]

Originally posted by Neverthirst


indeed, i-and-i. the UNION album is a worthy piece of work. different, yes. but a significant and enjoyable segment of Yes history. i saw the tour. what a show! so many of the Yes influences together ... breathtaking! I liked the whole album no matter how disparate or what discord there was during the sesssions.It was not a group concept at first anyway.ABWH were trying for a second album.Chris and Billy were making a new album and Alan,Trevor and Tony were trying to record something.Everything was brought together as a giant YES package.I love Angkor Wat and The More We Live.Silent Talking is nice.Without Hope is neat too.Save the album.Pop it on from time to time.But to see the whole band LIVE was great! JOE :keyboard::guitar::band::drummer::keyboard::angel: UNION!

[nightliner]

It has always been my contention that Saving My Heart could of been a big hit had they released it as a single. At the time the album came out, I had a friend that worked for Arista records. He was not a big fan of Yes, but he agreed with me that it had potential. Unfortunately he wasn't high enough up in the company to have any influence.

[Neverthirst]

Agreed Nightliner. I was really surprised that SAVING MY HEART didn't end up on the radio. In a very small way, though it did. I played that, LIFT ME UP and DANGEROUS on a radio show I had a long time ago in a small college. I was hoping to inspire some curiousity, maybe get to turn a few people onto Yes. But with a listening population of about 3, it didn't take.

mrgone3 mentioned ANGKOR WAT. I've read both very positive and very negative things around the site about it. I never really liked or disliked the song. however, the Cambodian Poetry at the end of the song, I have always thought was really beautiful. It really sticks in my mind everytime I hear it. And the voice of the girl reading it has an aesthetic quality to it that really brings it to life.

[nightliner]

Neverthirst, you sound like me, although my college radio experince was back in the 70's. I don't think I did a show without playing at least one Yessong. But of course, back then one song could of easily been 20 minutes long....and it usually was. It was also convenient for going to the bathroom, studying, or other activities I'd rather not discuss in public.;)

[Jackaranda]

Althought the tour was one of the two or three best ever, the Union album was a disgrace. I wouldn't rate it as the worst Yes album, but I would rate it the most disappointing. They had a GREAT chance here. After all, the tour sold out all over the world, but they flat out blew it, and the results of putting out a lousy album at that time are being felt to this day. It helped, along with other factors, to kill any chance Talk had, and it's been downhill ever since.

The only saving grace to Union is that it DOES have a couple of good tracks. My vote was for Lift Me Up. At least the non Yes fans got to hear a good song on the radio.

[Q]

My feeling about Union is it's a great album to pop in to hear a specific song or two ... there are some really good ones ...

... but I find it really difficult to put the album on to listen to as an album ...

[Neverthirst]

I don't think I have ever listened to Union start to finish. Its almost a better idea to just rip the ones you like, burn your own copy and call it "My Union." There are some really great tracks.

The notion that it is a collaboration, from the marketing at the time of release, the sugar-coated version of how it came to be written inside the cover, and the obviously suggestiveness of the title, really set the yesfan up for dissappointment. Its a collection of songs by Yesmembers, some of which were written with other Yesmembers. And I think the expectation that it would be something more left a lot of people with a bitter taste in their mouth.

We, in truth, have never heard a 'Union' collaboration album

But, I really like what Jack said about it being such a disappointment because it was a GREAT CHANCE to accomplish something incredible. Some say, no way... so and so would never get along ... never happen. Maybe. But that doesn't make it unimagineable. The fact that there is inevitable conflict is not something to be feared.

I'll bet Quantum could write a book in his sleep about incredible music that was born out of incredible conflict between musicians.

I say we get all Yes Men together and lock them in a studio, and don't let them out until they give us a real collaboration!!! (I realize that on a philosophical level, this idea really doesn't go hand in hand with Yesology, but I'm really on a roll .... )

Nightliner, what a cool thing to have in common. Props to you, my friend.

[mrgone3]

I feel a bit misty right now,but I have just been elected a Super YES fan!I must keep the flame now.I can listen to all of UNION while clacking on this computer.And just about anything else I care to.I have a bushel of yes CD's on stand by.Yeah lock them all up until Rick teaches Tony how to play boards.What a fantasy that would be.They were great to see together.three dates in NY metro area!AWAKEN!I think it could have been during that time when they could have collaborated!How did we get Talk out of that?I don't get it. JOE

[nightliner]

My previously mentioned friend who worked for Arista gave me some insight into what happened to this "fiasco" called Union. The band wanted to work together but the record company basically didn't let them. I forget how much money he told me they spent to get the two bands together, but they wanted an album, and they wanted it yesterday. They comprimised, in a way. Each band selected a couple tracks they all ready had written and partially recorded, and then had Jon do some lyrics on the Yeswest material. I'm sure you've heard Rick saying that he isn't on the disc very much. That's because he was doing something else when the record company insisted on getting the album finished, so they brought in any keyboardist they could find to complete the tracks...thus the long list of musicians that appear on the disc. So the band cannot be held responsible for the results.

Personnally I can't complain too much about the record company though. Since my friend was working for the company that put it out, he got me comp tickets and backstage passes to three different shows....I paid for two other ones.

[RobAdams]

Actually, considering the circumstances, the result could have been FAR worse.

[dyingpoet]

You really think it's been downhill over the last ten years? Surely you give more praise to Keys and Mag than you did Union. Even The Ladder is a better album, more in the YES vein than Union was, although Union does have good songs. I think some tracks over that time have been real achievements, such as "That That Is" and "Mind Drive." Heck, the whole Mag CD is a new landmark for YES now and the direction in which they're going. Nothing will ever compare to the glory days Between Fragile and GFTO, but they are still very much in the game.

- d.p.

[YESYOUANDI]

I can't think of any good songs on this (too many cooks) album).

More like "MAG" please!!!

P.S. Bring back Rick and let's have the true "YES" once again.

[Neverthirst]

Originally posted by dyingpoet
You really think it's been downhill over the last ten years?

D.P. I'm assuming that you are refering to the good Jack Gowen's post when he said that its been downhill ever since.

I don't want to speak for Jack, but the impression that I had from his post and those surrounding it, was that he was referring to the effect that UNION had on its overall fanbase. A dissapointing effect it was, especially in contrast to the expectations any given Yesfan might have had about a 'Union.' And that the trend of losing the fanbase began there and, unfortunately continued. I may be wrong D.P., and Jack if I have misinterpreted you, please forgive me.

I'm only saying that I took Jack's comments within a very particular context that did not include his opinion of later Yes albums.

Thanks

[Q]

I think the Union album was a disappointment for exactly the reason Neverthirst suggests. With those eight members, it's reasonable to expect an absolutely astounding album. We all know, in hindsight, that the musicians were never really given a chance to develop anything - the album was thrown together in a hurry, and the musicians were not in charge.

If they had been - and if they had taken their time - Union would have been an incredible album ...

[grasshopper]

I don't know why there's so much negativety surrounding Union? I myself was very pleased when they all decided to rejoin together as one instead of having two Yes bands working separately at the same time. Sure they might have rushed putting out the album but that was for the sake of the fans jonesing for a quick Yes fix. I know I needed it at the time. Though they really didn't work to closely on the album together I think they worked on differences touring together. There are good songs on Union. I even dig the Generators stuff like Miracle of Life alot.
I've never been able to dislike anything Yes has done very much. I'm alway glad to hear them working in any form possible. I can't say it's all great but how could anyone really know what good or bad is unless you have something at both ends to compare them to. It makes the really good stuff juicier when you've heard the other stuff that isn't so tastey. You need to hear it all to know the real value of their incredible brand of music.

[BrianD]

I have always liked Union - there are certainly some weak tracks and its far from their best album but there are also some very good tracks. I particularly like Silent Talking, Shock to the System, Angkor Wat, The More we live - let go.

I think the album's failings are varied and serve to poison opinions about it. The main one is the inclusion of sundry other musicians to the extent that it is impossible to know how much of it is Yes.

Another failing was its attempt to compromise the two factions to the extent that neither faction feels any ownership to the final product.

A third failing is the absence of any epic or near epic tracks. I for one was hoping that this would be one outcome of the amalgamation and remember being bitterly disappointed with a CD of shortish tracks.

Yet despite the failings, I still like it.

[dyingpoet]

I think one attribute of Union that is a major turn-off is the overall "commercialism" feel to it, as far as the publicity and packaging goes. The music is strong enough to overshadow this problem in most cases. But can you imagine (sorry) my surprise when a couple of riffs from Union tracks appeared on Steve's Turbulence CD two years later? It made Union seem more thrown together than conceptualized. It's not that Union is all that weak, there are some good tracks with some great moments there, but I think we were set up for a fall by the hype surrounding the personnel. (I'm still hacked that the show on that tour that I had tickets for was cancelled.) Every YES fan should own the CD, and still be grateful that the classic-progressive influences within the band have, for the most part, won out up to now.

- d.p.

[Jackaranda]

This was a decent song on the album, an ABWH song. It's funny that in concert that year the "Yes West" so called line-up dominated it, and TR and Chris did a great jam at the end of it ( see YesYears, it was also on MTV). It's better live, as is the case with many Yes songs, than it is on record. This track also shows they could (and can) play each others' songs...and do it very well, indeed...Jack..

[Q]

The true embarrassment of Union is that is turns all the Trooper/YesWest nonsense on its ear, and there's nowhere to hide from it.

"Shock to the System" was ABWH blatantly trying to sound like YesWest.

"Miracle of Life" is proof positive that Rabin is fully capable of classic Yes work.

I've fidgeted around for awhile now, avoiding voting in this poll. Finally I caved. I almost followed in Jack's footsteps with "Lift Me Up," which I love, but in the end I went with "Miracle of Life" ...

Love to all,
Q

[Jackaranda]

"Yes Music is Yes Music". Get over it already!!

Q. stated "Miracle of Life". What about "Hearts", "I'm Running", or "Endless Dream"?

All one has to do is listen to the '88 tour (some of which is on the YY box set) or watch that video of "Yes West" doing STTS. It's Yes doing Yes music.

[Neverthirst]

Not to disagree with Jack that Yes music is Yes Music ... I couldn't agree more.

Yet because Rabin often does not get credit he deserves, I could not help noticing ....

The 4 songs that feature Rabin (3 of which he wrote/co-wrote) out-number the 10 songs that do not feature Rabin 68-64.

[Q]

... because I couldn't agree more about Rabin ...

... but notice that the number one song among the votes is written by the Number One Yes Man, the Keeper of the Flame, the Caretaker ...

... Chris.

Q

[Neverthirst]

... Sherwood.

Which I mention because its rather ironic. The fact that Squire wrote the most popular UNION song comes as no big surprise. Squire's the man!

But in light of much that was said in this thread about Union being such a dissapointment because of what an accomplishment it [I]could have been[/I ...

How ironic that UNION's most popular track was co-wriiten by Sherwood - a Yesman rarely praised, who did not participate in UNION except to also co-produce that one song.

[ycantibu]

Are you talking about 'The More We Live'? I'd have thought 'Lift Me Up' was the most popular?

Originally posted by Neverthirst
... Sherwood.

Which I mention because its rather ironic. The fact that Squire wrote the most popular UNION song comes as no big surprise. Squire's the man!

But in light of much that was said in this thread about Union being such a dissapointment because of what an accomplishment it [I]could have been[/I ...

How ironic that UNION's most popular track was co-wriiten by Sherwood - a Yesman rarely praised, who did not participate in UNION except to also co-produce that one song.

[RobAdams]

Ha Ha! I like the whole thing!

True - it doesn't floor me like CLOSE TO THE EDGE, TALK or MAGNIFICATION, but I like it.

[lindil]

The true embarrassment of Union is that is turns all the Trooper/YesWest nonsense on its ear, and there's nowhere to hide from it.

I completely agree. I was shocked to hear howe[?] sounding like Rabin , lots of silly 2 chord riffs bum bum, bum bum. and Rabin writing Miracle of Life, the most progressive tune on the album.

of course this reversal does not last and we are given 'talk' of all things [ sorry no talk fan here] as a follow up.I did not follow yes for years afterthat despite having been into them since 76 or so at the ripe age of 10. I must admit i had great hopes that despite Union being a Union album only in the sense that there were way too many representatives from the local musicians "Union", that they would figure out a way to work together afterwords and go tour and play some more Yes music in an organic way.
Instead they loose Bruford, Howe and Wakeman and keep Rabin and kaye?!?!?! But hey Yes is nothing if not erratic, illogical and subject to random and massive personel changes.

like the Ladder I consistently listen to about 2-3/5ths of the Album and only rarely go through the whole thing [ except dangerous , ugh] as was said above, the fragile thru Gft1 period is not going to be repeated and we should be grateful that there are [anyway you want to burn it at home] several great CD's worth of music between Tormato and Ladder - and finally we got a minor masterpeice w/ Magnification. The first Yes album that most/many Yesfans seem to able to listen through all the way w/out an irresistble urge to skip tracks. Now that Wakeman is back will we get a 1/2 baked Keys/Tormatoish effort or a eral masterwork?

[dyingpoet]

I would think the most progressive track on Union would be "Angor Wat." It's certainly the most different and mesmorizing. Sure, "Miracle of Life" has a fantastic opening, but then it suddenly (and cruelly) crashes into a basic 4/4 with a weak melody and no real musical innovation. It's a fine track, but the "most progressive?" Remember, Rabin also gave us "Saving My Heart," which is on my top-ten list for track-skipping urge-causing as you mentioned above.

Also, I think the band fully recovered from their "we need another top-40 hit" phase with the Keys efforts, even though OYE dragged the rear axle on the shoulder a bit before The Ladder got us safely back on the road toward Mag and whatever else follows.

Now, was 90125 a single oriented album? No question. But it was highly innovative for it's day. I still love to listen to it. While Talk is a weak album overall, "Where Will You Be" is reason enough to own it. There are other good moments on it as well, as with every YES release. (Not necesarily "Release Release."

Anyway, take out OYE except for two or three tracks, and the guys are on a pretty good roll, wouldn't you agree? Do "we agree?" (sorry, couldn't help it.)


- d.p.

[Mr. Holland]

I totally agree with both Johnni and Squireaholic.

I also met al lot of fans in the Netherlands that always praise all of Yes's seventees work straight into heaven an than bash their eightees and ninetees work. I'm talking about the kind of yes fans who think that every tune which contains complex rhythms and melodies are great and as soon as a song has a more steady beat and straighter forward melody it's nothing and not yesworthy.

For me the greatest album is "close to the edge", there is nothing on that album that i don't like, but on every other album that Yes ever made there are songs that I really think are great, and also songs i like much less, but never anything that i credit as incredibly bad.

For the best song on "Union", i voted "without hope you cannot start the day". Somehow the combination of the music and the lyrics alway get to me. I also really like "shock to the system" (it doesn't hurt to somtimes put "rock" back into symphonic/progressive rock).

[Mr. Holland]

There are quit a view people that voted for "miracle of life" as best song on "Union". Tell me, has anybody else noticed the following (or is it my strange way of listening): i always thought that Trevor was copying himself on that song, because the structure of "miracle of love" is the same as "changes"from the 90125 album. A 1 1/2 - 2 minutes intro with a more complex rhythm and melodic structure and then going in into a more steady rhythm structure when the voals start. Listen to the songs back to back and i think you'll hear what i mean.

[Joedude]

The More We Live to me is the best tune on the album. But overall, it may have been a pain to make but there still are some quality tunes.

[Jackaranda]

Shock to the System is SO much better live (I have 3 different live versions from the 91 tour) than the studio version, it's just a much better song live. Maybe with decent production Union could have been better.

[Cameron Striewski]

I think Union is a great album, with some very innovative music. I do have songs that I prefer(and I'm probably in the minority), and I selected “Holding On” as my favorite, although it was a hard call. Here’s my favorite songs without any preference to order: Holding On, Miracle of Life, Silent Talking, Ankor Wat, Without Hope You Cannot Start the Day, Give and Take, Evensong and sometimes Lift me up. The rest of the songs I don’t listen to.
Of the songs I’ve listed, there’s plenty of excellent material to love. Sound textures on “Ankor Wat” are among the best, and the power chant of “Miracle of Life” is uplifting and energizing. “Holding On” has a compelling drive and percussive texture that is very advanced. “Silent Talking” is a compressed epic and “Without Hope” has a very passionate and emotional thread. “Give and Take” is just great vocals and guitar with a rockin’ beat. I love that song. “Give and take” sounds like what the creative process was about on this album. But like any Yes album that actually exists, I’m happy to own, listen and support it.
The songs are a distinctive body of work that I treasure as part of my Yes music collection. I’m thankful for any album past 90215 and Rick Wakeman in the band is what I always look for.
I never saw the Union tour, but I saw some video clip with “Shock to the System” that looked interesting.
Whatever the opinion, I believe that Union was an important stepping stone, heart beats that had to be, for the music to continue to live.

Cam

Yes Rocks!

[Margit]

when Yes came down here in 1994, I met Billy Sheerwood at the hotel and we sang it together and had a lot of fun...he liked it very much, cause he participated in its composition. Every time I listen to that track, I remember the good experience I had;)

[Sonoacustico]

Actually I like the UNION album a Lot, although there are some songs in there that I'd prefer to forget.... I do Love Shock to the System (I would swear Rabin writing this one :) ), Masquerade (Howe's Trademark Sound), Lift me Up (hey!! this song rocks!!!), Without Hope you cannot Start the Day (this song always enchant me!! and there is a larger version out there, a lot better), Miracle of Life (Yes West at their Best!), Silent Talking (ABWH at their best!!), The More We Live (Sherwood's best Contribution to Yes History) and Take the Water to the Mountain (That might be been a very good Anderson solo piece :) )

Greetings!

Claudio

[Margit]

Good analisys Claudio!

Regards from Chile (hahaha)

[Cerberus]

I personally loved the Union CD. I think there weakest of all time has to be Big Generator. Even though there are a few very good songs on there as well..

Lets face it. Even if we dont love each & every song on all there stuff, theres still gems to be found on each & every one of them...

Just my 2 cents mind you!:bash:

[Jackaranda]

I love that song but I always considered it a Rabin song with Jon singing it. Still a really nice song. My wife liked that one.....Jack.

[yes_angel]

Ahhh,now this is a very special album to me,I believe I said that in this thread once before. If not,,,, hard to make a choice on fav song on this, "All songs are excellent on this album"

[yarstruly]

I think that this album is underrated...Not their best but damn good...I especially like Miracle of Life, Lift Me Up, I Would Have Waited Forever, and Shock to the System....

[Erdy1]

I've said it before - the only songs I dont like on here are Saving My Heart and Dangerous. Lift Me Up is a bit repeditive for my tastes, but is a good Rabin tune none-the-less. Holding on is a bit weak too, but I still like it.

Take the Water to the Mountain is one of my favorite songs. I particularly like how Evensong leads into it.

I've never been able to see what fans have against Union (or Tormato, for that matter). The band members definitely have their reasons to dislike this, as it is a bit of a frankenstein operation, but from a listener's point of view, all I hear are mostly strong songs from my favorite band.

[Dragonfly]

It shocks me that the only song that really gets attention on this album is "The More We Live - Let Go. It isn’t even close to being the best song. :WH:

First off, none of the YesWest tunes should get top vote. It's an AB(L)WH album that YesWest was invited to tack four songs on to. And of those, "The More We Live - Let Go" is either the worst or second worst (behind "Saving My Heart".)
:lame:

Better choices would be "Silent Talking", "Holding On" or even "Dangerous" (if you can get past the keyboards). Just listen to Bill's drumming on that last one. Cool! This is real ProgRock, not some namby-pamby pop drivel. O.K. "Miracle of Life" is brilliant in most areas (particularly the very Prog opening sequence), but "The More We Live..."? Get real!

But then, if that's everyone’s favorite UNION track, why is it that OPEN YOUR EYES (the album) is so universally hated? It's the same writing!!!
:bs:
Who's filling out this poll, Phil Collins fans???

Jeez! I'll never figure this one out. :rolleyes:

Dragonfly :fly:

[upbgirl]

and i dont think i can get in too much trouble saying masquerade is a wonderful tune-i remembered this thread, and listened to the cd last night-all night
lift me up?
well......... it just

Lifts ME up!
:valintine

[Mr. Holland]

I think there is still some pretty good stuff on the album, but mainly on the first half........

- I would Have Waited forever: Good solid song!
- Shock to the System: one of my favorite Yes rockers, wouldn't mind if they gave this one a chance live again.
- Masquerade: Beuatiful Steve Howe peace, wish he would have used it more during his solo's on the last few tours.
- Lift me Up: great song an I remember it to be even more great live on the Union tour.
- Without Hope you cannot Start the Day: I don't hear many people about this song, but this one gets to me emotionally every time, it's the combination of melody, rhythm and lyrics that somehow graps me by the throad.
- Saving my Heart: dreadful popsong, hasn't got anything to do with Yesmusic.
- Miracle of Life: one of the best Rabin/Yes tracks they have done, not only on this album, but throughout the whole era.
- Silent Talking: good song, but if they had played their cards right, this song could have developped into a medium lenght epic. Somehow it sounds to me as unfinished.
- the More we Live-Let Go: This tack is still growing on me, certainly not the best track on the album, but good nevertheless
- Angkor Wat: No, this track just doesn't do it for me. Don't know exactly why, but I just don't feel any emotion when I hear this song.
- Dangerous: I like this track, allthough I think it should have ended up on a Jon Anderson solo album. But still unlike everything they had done before, so in that way it is probably one of the most progressive songs on the album.
- Holding on: Well, I don't think this song is worth "holding on" to.....
- Evensong: Nice 30 seconds, but it doesn't really seem to have a purpose on this album.
- Take the Water to the Mountain: again a song that in my opinion should have ended up at a Jon Anderson solo album and even then it wouldn't be one of my favorite Jon songs.
- Give and Take: Put on as an extra track on the cd, oppostite the l.p., but I haven't got a clue why, because it is not really worth the time on the cd.

So, there you go. Union explained from my point of view........

[Erdy1]

But then, if that's everyone’s favorite UNION track, why is it that OPEN YOUR EYES (the album) is so universally hated? It's the same writing!!!
:bs:
Who's filling out this poll, Phil Collins fans???

Jeez! I'll never figure this one out. :rolleyes:

Dragonfly :fly:

Not to split hairs, but the results of this poll do not indicate that "The More We Live" has won it's place as "everyone's favorite Union track."

The poll appears to be closed now, but if I remember right, it was a multiple vote poll - people voted for all the songs they liked. So this isn't really a case of "The More We Live" being everyone's favorite, but rather it is the least unlikeable, i.e. more people don't dislike it than other songs on the album. (sorry for the double negatives, but it really does make sense). More people like this song than any other on the CD, but that's very different than saying it is their favorite.

If the poll would have been "what is your favorite Union track" with the option to choose only one song, then I believe we'd see significantly different results.

And yes, I am a statistics nut.

[jaynote1]

Somebody already said what I wanted to say.....that each Yes album is good in a way that is unique to that particular album....I have friends that are Yes fans that dont like Tormato, or dont like OYE,etc., but I like all of them...some better than others, to be sure, but theres something likeable about all of them (even Drama, hehehee)....I loved Union, and the tour as well, and I like OYE....and Tormato....Its hard to compare one album to another, because of the different statements being made on each album, how would one compare Tales, for example, to Magnification.....each case has to be judged on its own merits, and I have found them all guilty of being great!........

[eri-chan]

I just bought this album maybe two weeks ago, so I feel I need to put my two cents in here, because even though I know a lot of yesfans don't like Union, I LOVE it.

I think the only track on the whole album that I could really do without is "Savinig my Heart for You" - I like "Shock to the System" and "Holding On" ok, but the rest of the album I absolutely adore. "Miracle of Life always makes me feel happy, "The More We Live" is absolutely one of the most beautiful songs I've heard in a long time, as is "Angkor Wat" - I think AW is actually a real moment of brilliance for Jon and Rick. And the rest of it is just great, what more can I say? I even like "Dangerous", which is such a Trevor Rabin song, but I just think its fun. I don't really dislike Rabinm the way some yesfans seem to. His stuff is different and much more pop, but its still good music I think. Its just not as ambitious of some other things they've done.

I dunno, I realyl can't say anything bad about this album - I just wish I could've heard it earlier!

And just for the record, I have music from probably every era of the band now, and I can honestly say that as of yet, I haven't heard anything I haven't liked. And that includes Tales, 90125, The Ladder, Yes (the very first album) - I like it all.

[eri-chan]

Also, I love Masquerade as a Steve solo - I wish that one got more play

And someone else mentioned how Silent Talking seems unfinished, and that it sounds like it has the makings of a Yes-epic - before I actually heard the song, thats always what I expected it to be, and I couldn't agree more that it seems like it got left off at the end.........I bet if they had paid it a little more attention, that song would've been a real winner. At the moemnt I feel its a little mediocre, and ends awkwardly...it leaves me wishing there was more, unlike most other yes songs that leave me feeling nice and full and satisified :-D

[SallyKhatru]

I love Union, actually. The only thing is that all the songs don´t seem to fit together. Every song is pretty good, but they don´t fit together. I especially like Miracle of Life, Lift Me Up, Saving my Heart and I would have waited.., they´re so powerful and positive. I also love Without Hope, especially the Intro, I´d love this whole song to be more like the beginning. You can really see that they didn´t have the time they would have needed, which is a pity.
Give and Take, Take The Water and Holding on ( Your time is just beginning) are wonderful songs also Angkor, but they should have given more attention to them. But all in all this album always gives me power and new energy.

[eri-chan]

i can see what you're saying about it not seeming to "fit" ....it does seem like kind of a random assortment of stuff on one disc. I attributed that to the fact that they had such a large group of people working on it, though.....and it doesn't bother me TOO much, its actually sort of a nice variety of music, I think.

[Flo]

I had bought Union on the day of its release and I remember I liked it at once despite the different mixed up styles. I instantly loved the same songs as you, Eri-chan and thought the melodies were quite good, all in all.
It was much later when I happened to read books about Yes explaining in which conditions the album was made and also by reading reviews from the Internet, that I realised how everybody criticized it. I have been a little biased by this negative criticism, however I still like the album today. I suppose that if Yes members are so critical about it, it's because it brings them bad memories of its making of.

[eri-chan]

I had bought Union on the day of its release and I remember I liked it at once despite the different mixed up styles. I instantly loved the same songs as you, Eri-chan and thought the melodies were quite good, all in all.
It was much later when I happened to read books about Yes explaining in which conditions the album was made and also by reading reviews from the Internet, that I realised how everybody criticized it. I have been a little biased by this negative criticism, however I still like the album today. I suppose that if Yes members are so critical about it, it's because it brings them bad memories of its making of.

Finding out the backstories to the music generally has an effect on how I perceive it, as well. Its sad that the band had such a negative experience with this album, and that fans didn't receive it well, because I really do think it has a lot to offer and is severely underrated. I bet if they'd had more fun with it when they were recording it, the album would have been even better and would have come much closer to the standards they set for themselves.

Taken purely on its own, without considering how it was made or the rest of the Yes catalogue, its really not as bad as people make it out to be. Thats how I try to view every Yes album - so many of them are so different form one another, I almost have to think of each one I buy as being made by a completely different band. If I don't try to compare them to each other, it makes the whole listening experience much more enjoyable, because I can just appreciate the music for what it is.

[SallyKhatru]

That was very well spoken, Eri. I think you´re absolutely right. We shouldn´t try to compare the albums with each other. That doesn´t change anythign and has no positive effect. IT´s much better to love each album, each song as it is.
Also Flo is right with the background. There are many bad rumors about this album and maybe this is what makes some people think bad of Union.

[Mr. Holland]

[QUOTE=eri-chan]I even like "Dangerous", which is such a Trevor Rabin song, but I just think its fun. I don't really dislike Rabinm the way some yesfans seem to. His stuff is different and much more pop, but its still good music I think. Its just not as ambitious of some other things they've done.
[QUOTE]

Well eric-chan, what makes this even more fun is that Rabin didn't have anything to do with "Dangerous", it is one of the ABWH tracks on the album. So it is Jon, Bill, Steve, Rick and Tony Levin palying on that track with Chris doing backing vocals. Jon wrote the song together with producer Jonathan Elias.
So like I said, fun thay you think of it as such a Trevor Rabin song, but at the same time quit interesting to. I'm going to listen to that track a few more times now.......

[eri-chan]

[QUOTE]

Well eric-chan, what makes this even more fun is that Rabin didn't have anything to do with "Dangerous", it is one of the ABWH tracks on the album. So it is Jon, Bill, Steve, Rick and Tony Levin palying on that track with Chris doing backing vocals. Jon wrote the song together with producer Jonathan Elias.
So like I said, fun thay you think of it as such a Trevor Rabin song, but at the same time quit interesting to. I'm going to listen to that track a few more times now.......

whoops....I goofed :-p lol, just shows I need to check my sources before I say things like that.

Thats REALLY interesting that Dangerous is an ABWH song - it sounds SO much like Trevor Rabin's work. Weird. I love it though :-D

[jaynote1]

hehehee....I cant believe the depth of discussion this topic has generated...i think this album has bore more controversy than Drama.....I happen to like the album, both groups made considerable contributions, and like everyone else, I have my favorites.....I am a bit confused at the discussion around 'The More We Live', which I happen to think is a great song, probably one of the better on the album...and the same about 'Holding On', I really, really like that song, and am a little bent about how much other yes-fans Dont like it...."Angkor Wat", i think, is yes straight out of the carton....Its not always going to be Roundabout or Owner of a Lonely Heart!......

[BlueEagle]

I think "Miracle of Life" at least should have been played by everybody on the album. It's a great song. It's a bloody shame that an album advertized as a "union" never had all the players on the same cut.

[Mr. Holland]

I think "Miracle of Life" at least should have been played by everybody on the album. It's a great song. It's a bloody shame that an album advertized as a "union" never had all the players on the same cut.

Especially when you think about it, that Steve actually atmitted in an interview somewhere in the 90's that he did like this tune........makes you wonder then, why they didn't play that one life on tour instead of Lift Me Up (probably because that was the single from tha labum back then)......

[donk.bars]

The More We Live is such a wonderful tune.

I never run through Saving My Heart, except when I am not in the room. It is the worst Yessong IMHO.

[1yesfan]

Saving my heart on the album is wacked but the live version is MUCH better!

[the'YES'kid]

I WOULD HAVE WAITED FOREVER made me a Yesfan.

It has always been my 2nd fav Yes song (after "Close to the Edge"-Yessongs)

[Scooty]

Miracle of Life and Lift Me Up I still play to this day quite often

[About The Round]

The More We Live – Let Go. A very good tune, the production is more Sherwood than Yes. Hopefully one day the song will be played again with more instrumental interplay rather than the tastes of the studio.

Silent Taking – One of those Andersonics – climb up a hill with fog all over, until you reach the top where the sun burst through and reveals the valley ahead. A simple and beautiful melody with dramatics around.

[jimmygtr]

Lift me Up
Miracle of Life
The more we live

[Marco78]

"The More We Live" is the highlight of the album and one of the few YesWest tracks really good: "I Would Have Waited Forever" and "Shock to the System" my second and third choice.
"Saving my Heart" is pathetic, maybe the worst ever after "Can I?".

[jimmygtr]

I can't listen to the ABWH stuff on Union now without wondering if anybody other than Jon really played on it. I know that's an exaggeration but with so many extra session players and the rerecording of tracks recorded by band members it just seems so horribly compromised.

I mean even if song did stink I'd like know it was ABWH who stunk and not Jonathan Elias, Jimmy Haun, and Steve Pocaro

[Full Tilt Boogie]

Leave it with me - I'm still struggling with this album! I find some of the songs simply downright offensive 'I would have waited forever...' P-e-r-l-e-e-z-e!!!

[Gabriel]

Several fantastic songs from this album; the best of them being I think 'The More We Live- Let Go' but 'Lift Me Up' 'Miracle Of Life' 'I Would Have Waited Forever' and 'Without Hope You Cannot Start The Day' are equally as impressive.

[yesrolfer]

"Lift Me Up" so far the best for me. Just found a used copy this week. Still trying to digest it. Don't think this CD will go into my heavy "Yes" rotation."

[Gabriel]

Give it a few more spins mate! Its not as bad as some people make out...I really cant see why people say its so poor, I really enjoyed it :(

[cinderella]

My favorite song on the Union album is Lift Me Up. I also love Saving My Heart and I Would Have Waited Forever.

I can't deal with Shock To The System. I hated hearing it when they did it live. It was like fingernails down a chalkboard.

[BigGenerator]

It's hard to choose the best song of "union"
There are some very good songs,diificult to say which one I prefer
I would choose,
1) holding on
2)the more we live
3)silent talking
4)shock to the system

[Apocalypse]

I always wondered why so many people hate Union.

Yes, it's completely different from their other albums but it's very easy listening. It's a great way to introduce Yes to someone who's not into progressive rock.

I love all songs in Union.

[Gabriel]

I totally agree mate; in fact, i've gave a friend of mine Lift me up to break the ice and he really enjoyed it I think.

Without hope you cannot start the day has really grown on me lately I think its a fantastic song; I love the drum sound in it especially!

[Stever]

I just realized, in doing this poll there are like 10 songs I really like on this album that we're always trashing around here. as for my last 50 posts about the album.......Never mind.

[jimmygtr]

I can't deal with Shock To The System. I hated hearing it when they did it live. It was like fingernails down a chalkboard.

Trevor referred to that song as a City Love wanna be.

[hippieinacloset]

This is what I do when I listen to Union. I'll program the CD player as follows:

1. Evensong
2. Shock To The System
3. Masquerade
4. Lift Me Up
5. Miracle Of Life
6. Silent Talking
7. Angkor Wat

And I'll be happy like a two year old with a lollipop.
How the CD was put together or what the politics behind it are, I don't know, I don't care. As long as I can get some 30 minutes of great music I'll always be happy with a YES CD, and such has been the case with every YES album.

[Gabriel]

Trevor referred to that song as a City Love wanna be.

For some reason, i've never understood that; the riff doesnt sound like City of Love to me at all really; I always thought 'Without Hope You Cannot Start the Day' sounded more like City of Love in all parts but the beginning if you listen to the riff. Its probably just me though!

[umgekehrt]

Only 5 votes for "Give and Take"? I think this means that too few people have heard this song. It's a pity, because it's a great ABWH song, one very much similar to "The Order of the Universe" and a superb finale to the album.

[Stever]

Only 5 votes for "Give and Take"? I think this means that too few people have heard this song. It's a pity, because it's a great ABWH song, one very much similar to "The Order of the Universe" and a superb finale to the album.

I'm one who's never heard it. I keep hoping it shows up as a bonus on something in the trading room, or that someone will do a YesSurprises III and post it for weeding. It could also have Vultures , I'm Alive , Acapella Leave It, the XYZ Songs etc. Is Give and Take ABWH, Trevor's Yes or Billy Sherwood?

Peace,

[Dantalion Rides Again]

I've never heard Give and Take! I'll bet it's something I'd like. I keep reading that some people think it's a waste of time.

It's amazing how differently Yes music strikes each fan.

Some think Talk is a beautiful masterpiece that deserved a better album to follow than Union.

Others think Union is a beautiful album with mostly great songs, and deserved a better follow up than Talk.

(that's the camp I'm in, btw)

Still others dislike both, while others love both albums - and to different degrees.

I'd rank "Holding On" as possibly my favorite on the whole album, and I too am a tad bent that there are very few fans of this track.

I also selected "I Would Have Waited Forever", "The More We Live" and "Take the Water To the Mountain".

Honorable mentions go to Angkor Wat, Masquerade & Without Hope.

I'm really not a fan of any of the three Trevor songs on this album, and I find myself really disagreeing with most about SMH & MOL :

1) I think "Miracle of Life" is incredibly over-rated. Some people have pointed out the non-progressiveness of this song, and they're right. There's a wildly complicated intro, and then it's just a mediocre pop tune with lyrics that make me cringe. It's too often hailed as "very progressive". I don't agree.

2) "Saving My Heart" doesn't annoy me somehow! But I could live without it.

It's all about the "Holding On" for me. Actually, those last three tracks on the disc are my favorite stretch of songs on there.

[Gabriel]

I know what you mean about Miracle of Life; although I must admit I like the song, I dont think its progressive in the way people say it is. Its pretty simple after the intro is over to be honest; I think that 'The More We Live' is more progressive and thats a relitively straight forward rock song.

[Dragonfly]

Only 5 votes for "Give and Take"? I think this means that too few people have heard this song. It's a pity, because it's a great ABWH song, one very much similar to "The Order of the Universe" and a superb finale to the album.I only heard "Give and Take" once. It sounded like a "Jon song": something from one of his solo albums. That's also my impression from the one and only time I heard the rare AB(L)WH tune "Vultures". I own and enjoy several of Jon's solo albums, but this declaration from me is not a compliment when applied to a full-band composition.

And comparing any song to "The Order of the Universe" is not a good thing i.m.o. I strongly dislike that song (except for Bill's percussion break.) I have the same problem with Jon's repetitious "The order of the universe. The order of the universe." as I do with Trevor Horn's "I am a camera. Camera camera" going on and on, ad nauseum. :rolleyes:

Dragonfly :fly:

[Awakened by the Gates]

I really like them all!
To those that do not like "Union' - get over it! It is 2004!
Instead of criticising this and that let us hear what you have done that is better!

[Mr. Holland]

I really like them all!
To those that do not like "Union' - get over it! It is 2004!
Instead of criticising this and that let us hear what you have done that is better!

Allthough I like the majority of songs on Union, I think reasoning like "let us hear what you have done that is better!" is, excuse me for saying this, complete nonses. I mean most of the people on this site are not musicians, but that doesn't mean they're not capable of forming an opinion on music nor that they're not allowed to be critical about it. It all starts with the fact that either you like something you hear or you don't. And I found that the the people on this site are real fans who have really listened to Yes music and are very capable of expressing why in their opinion something is good or is not. And in the end everybody is entitled to their opinion whether others agree or disagree with it and when it comes to Union, heg most of the Yesmembers have always critisized this album. Rick doesn't call it "Onion" for nothing......

[Awakened by the Gates]

Thirteen years on and we are still talking about it though!?
Critics criticise, artists produce. As for the hearing: it need not be something musical, it could be a written work. We can hear of it by people informing us of their prowess in a given field, not just music.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion but there comes a point when you have to let go - like it or not "Union" is with us and no amount of talking is going to change the outcome.
Can some opinions be coloured by the comments of, say, Rick?
In the end, nonsense or not, it is my opinion. And I have the entitlement to express it. I am not about to change others opinions, of that I am well aware. I can't even get my son that interested in Yes!!
All I ask is for people to listen with an open mind and concentrate on the positives, for they are abundant here. When I listen to "Union" I hear Yes, not the session musicians.
Bill hated recording 'CTTE' - do we then take his opinion as our own?
The original question was a poll on the good songs on "Union" not why it is called "Onion."

[daniel sylvain]

I must concur with the above. There is something to be said for taking the bad with the good. Fortunately for us, as far as YES is concerned, it's been mostly good to great!

- d.p...........I totally agree with you here....Daniel

[Mr. Holland]

In the end, nonsense or not, it is my opinion. And I have the entitlement to express it.

Well, the nonsense comment I made was not directed at your opinion whether Union is a good album or not nor was it directed at your opinion that people should get over all that happened surrounding the album by now. It was directed at the sentence "Instead of criticising this and that let us hear what you have done that is better!" As said most of the people on this site are not musicians. That however doesn't mean that they don't know a lot about music. So to me "let us hear what you have done better" (I have seen it used before in other threads) is always a bit of a weak argument. It implies that if you can't you are not allowed to critize music. And that to me is nonsens. No hard feelings, I hope!

[Professor Yessor]

Mr. Holland is absolutely correct. Criticism is fun!! Especially, as long as no one gets
their shorts in a knot. In fact, I would opine very strongly that the last 10 years of
strongly opinionated Yes fans are largely responsible for guiding the direction and
personnel of the band.

Mr. Holland RULES. Rules, I say.

[Jackaranda]

Miracle of Life should have been a great song, but it's missing something. I just don't know what.

Maybe Rabin was trying to make a combination classic/modern Yes song and it didn't quite work.

He made it work awesomely a couple of years later.

[brotherofmine]

A Good Union Song?...All of it!

[Awakened by the Gates]

I agree Tony! I keep asking why, after 13 years, we are still finding fault in a Yes recording?!
Sure, as those closely involved, the members of Yes are entitled to be aggrieved by some happenings regarding the finished product. But, as fans, we are left with a great CD of Yes music!



BTW: Tony's comment came up as being posted 11 hours ago!!

[brotherofmine]

BTW: Tony's comment came up as being posted 11 hours ago!!
Your comments from two days ago came up just now Michael. It's a poll so if people vote on the poll but don't post the name of the last poster comes up.

[justyes]

I'll say none.

[crotale2112]

I Love To Drive My Car To The Beach On A Rainy Day,look Out At The Old Light House And Listen To Ankor Wat Over And Over And Over.then Listen To Burl Ives At Maximumn Volume

[satyam]

I would have to say that Miracle of Life and the more we live are the standout tracks on Union. Even Bill Bruford himself said in an intereview that the Yes west tracks were stronger on the Union album.
Isn't it ironic that Trevor and Billy who always receive a hard time from most of the Yesfans had the best songs on Union!!!

[Jackaranda]

And that Talk has been consistently voted the best Yes album of the 90's, but people say they don't want Rabin back.

That's like saying I want to win the lottery but I don't want the money.

[tardistraveler]

Oh, well, I have to disagree with that one Jack.

I think The Ladder was the best Yes of the 90's - I'll get flamed, I know, but I LOVE the album - listening to it right now, as a matter of fact.

[Jackaranda]

Oh, well, I have to disagree with that one Jack.

I think The Ladder was the best Yes of the 90's - I'll get flamed, I know, but I LOVE the album - listening to it right now, as a matter of fact.


Oh well Ok Diane..............I guess I can still love you anyway.

[tardistraveler]

Oh well Ok Diane..............I guess I can still love you anyway.


Hey, we don't have to agree on EVERYTHING . . . ;)

[cinderella]

Trevor referred to that song as a City Love wanna be.

Hmmm, it's very interesting that he would say that Shock To The System is a City Of Love wanna be. City Of Love is one of my favorites, while Shock To The System is on my most hated list right after I'm Running.

[TopoSunrise]

[QUOTE=eri-chan]I even like "Dangerous", which is such a Trevor Rabin song, but I just think its fun. I don't really dislike Rabinm the way some yesfans seem to. His stuff is different and much more pop, but its still good music I think. Its just not as ambitious of some other things they've done.
[QUOTE]

Well eric-chan, what makes this even more fun is that Rabin didn't have anything to do with "Dangerous", it is one of the ABWH tracks on the album. So it is Jon, Bill, Steve, Rick and Tony Levin palying on that track with Chris doing backing vocals. Jon wrote the song together with producer Jonathan Elias.
So like I said, fun thay you think of it as such a Trevor Rabin song, but at the same time quit interesting to. I'm going to listen to that track a few more times now.......

I'm not sure if others have seen the following interview quoted in a review of Union on Amazon.com, but it explains a lot if true. I had also always thought it sounded too much like Trevor to be Steve. Well, apparently there was a lot of the ABWH stuff that was a session musician replacing Steve's parts if this is to be believed:

According to this interview with the guitarist Jimmy Haun, who is a Yes fan and prefers the Classic lineup, Steve basically isn't on this Album. ...

So basically you have YesWest (Rabin, Squire, Kaye, White) and
Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman &HAUN! Jimmy Haun is a nice guy and does a good job but I paid to hear Howe.
Anyway here are Haun's own words;

"HP: So tell us about the details of Union...

JH: Arista really wanted classic Steve Howe and I guess they felt they weren't getting it with the existing parts. So I did my best and I think a lot of it worked (I even fooled some band members). Arista was originally not going to credit me at all, so I was lucky to get what credit I got. So for posterity here's what was Steve and what was me. (If you listen to Union live bootlegs you can get an idea of what I came up with and Steve's original parts.)

Track 1: "I Would Have Waited Forever". The opening riff is me (Arista wanted this sort of a "Starship Trooper" thing), then Steve really just played the recurring single thread line at 0:24 to 0:49 and the end solo. I played all the other guitars (electrics, acoustic, some effect overdubs).

Track 2: "Shock to the System". Must have been a shock to Steve's system-there is simply no Steve Howe on that at all! Steve had, of course, written the opening riff (which I ended up replacing for sonic reasons). I think this was my favorite track because I got to write most of the riffs and there was this new section we came up with and tacked on at 4:10 and the riff is very reminiscent of "Gates of Delirium". And I had to replace some of the bass! (Tony Levin left his bass at the studio so we got his exact sound and added the sections.) I guess Steve refused to play this section live. (This is the track that Rabin played for Steve on the plane during the Union tour and Steve's mouth dropped.)

Track 5: "Without Hope You Cannot Start the Day". Once again there is no Steve Howe on this at all (I don't think Steve ever even heard this song). Jon and Jonathan wrote this one.

Track 8: "Silent Talking". I replaced the main riff because there were timing discrepancies and I tried to get as close to Steve Howe's sound as I could. There are a couple of riffs that were kept of Steve's, where you can hear his tone is a little different, like at 0:46 to 1:03.

Track 11: "Dangerous". No Steve here. Not one of my favorites on the album but the one I guess I was "featured" on, oh well.

Track 12: "Holding On". Steve just played the first main riff at 0:31 to 0:47 and that's it folks. There is a lot of riffing on this especially toward the end, but it is all me and I think it's a pretty good likeness of Steve.

Track 14: "Take the Water to the Mountain". No Steve here either. Lots of Howe likenesses though.

Track 15: "Give and Take". It starts out Steve on the main melody and I did harmonics over that. I played all of the verses as well as the chorus. Steve's sound is basically the distorted thinner sound that never changes tone. It was that way on all his tracks and I think the powers that be felt there needed to be more colors from the guitars, hence my involvement.

HP: Looking back, how do you view Union now? What did you think of the mostly negative reaction among Yes fans to the album, and what do you think of it yourself these days?

JH: I think that the record is very palatable and has a lot to offer musically. I do understand the fan reaction and I think a lot of it has little to do with the musical aspect, but rather the political and the fact that there isn't much Yes there. And if I was Steve Howe, I would have been ticked off if someone came in and replaced my parts too. But I did try to be sensitive to his sound and style like using a Gibson ES-175 and stuff.

HP: And how do you feel when somebody says, "I liked Steve Howe's guitar work on that track," when you know that was actually you?

JH: Well, flattered because I fooled them into thinking it was Steve and frustrated because of the lack of credit, but that's OK."



HMMMMM... Explains a bit.

[Scooty]

I'm not sure if others have seen the following interview quoted in a review of Union on Amazon.com, but it explains a lot if true. I had also always thought it sounded too much like Trevor to be Steve. Well, apparently there was a lot of the ABWH stuff that was a session musician replacing Steve's parts if this is to be believed:

According to this interview with the guitarist Jimmy Haun, who is a Yes fan and prefers the Classic lineup, Steve basically isn't on this Album. ...

So basically you have YesWest (Rabin, Squire, Kaye, White) and
Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman &HAUN! Jimmy Haun is a nice guy and does a good job but I paid to hear Howe.
Anyway here are Haun's own words;

"HP: So tell us about the details of Union...

JH: Arista really wanted classic Steve Howe and I guess they felt they weren't getting it with the existing parts. So I did my best and I think a lot of it worked (I even fooled some band members). Arista was originally not going to credit me at all, so I was lucky to get what credit I got. So for posterity here's what was Steve and what was me. (If you listen to Union live bootlegs you can get an idea of what I came up with and Steve's original parts.)

Track 1: "I Would Have Waited Forever". The opening riff is me (Arista wanted this sort of a "Starship Trooper" thing), then Steve really just played the recurring single thread line at 0:24 to 0:49 and the end solo. I played all the other guitars (electrics, acoustic, some effect overdubs).

Track 2: "Shock to the System". Must have been a shock to Steve's system-there is simply no Steve Howe on that at all! Steve had, of course, written the opening riff (which I ended up replacing for sonic reasons). I think this was my favorite track because I got to write most of the riffs and there was this new section we came up with and tacked on at 4:10 and the riff is very reminiscent of "Gates of Delirium". And I had to replace some of the bass! (Tony Levin left his bass at the studio so we got his exact sound and added the sections.) I guess Steve refused to play this section live. (This is the track that Rabin played for Steve on the plane during the Union tour and Steve's mouth dropped.)

Track 5: "Without Hope You Cannot Start the Day". Once again there is no Steve Howe on this at all (I don't think Steve ever even heard this song). Jon and Jonathan wrote this one.

Track 8: "Silent Talking". I replaced the main riff because there were timing discrepancies and I tried to get as close to Steve Howe's sound as I could. There are a couple of riffs that were kept of Steve's, where you can hear his tone is a little different, like at 0:46 to 1:03.

Track 11: "Dangerous". No Steve here. Not one of my favorites on the album but the one I guess I was "featured" on, oh well.

Track 12: "Holding On". Steve just played the first main riff at 0:31 to 0:47 and that's it folks. There is a lot of riffing on this especially toward the end, but it is all me and I think it's a pretty good likeness of Steve.

Track 14: "Take the Water to the Mountain". No Steve here either. Lots of Howe likenesses though.

Track 15: "Give and Take". It starts out Steve on the main melody and I did harmonics over that. I played all of the verses as well as the chorus. Steve's sound is basically the distorted thinner sound that never changes tone. It was that way on all his tracks and I think the powers that be felt there needed to be more colors from the guitars, hence my involvement.

HP: Looking back, how do you view Union now? What did you think of the mostly negative reaction among Yes fans to the album, and what do you think of it yourself these days?

JH: I think that the record is very palatable and has a lot to offer musically. I do understand the fan reaction and I think a lot of it has little to do with the musical aspect, but rather the political and the fact that there isn't much Yes there. And if I was Steve Howe, I would have been ticked off if someone came in and replaced my parts too. But I did try to be sensitive to his sound and style like using a Gibson ES-175 and stuff.

HP: And how do you feel when somebody says, "I liked Steve Howe's guitar work on that track," when you know that was actually you?

JH: Well, flattered because I fooled them into thinking it was Steve and frustrated because of the lack of credit, but that's OK."



HMMMMM... Explains a bit.


All this does is solidify my Horrid opinion on this travesty of an album..

Unbelievable.....

[rickweber]

Miricle of Life is the one I play most often. I like the whole album. Union gave them a reason to tour again (all 8 of them) and it was something I'll never forget.

[Skyward]

So much bad press, some of which was for good reason. However, with that being said, I absolutely love "Shock to the System", "Lift Me Up" and "Evensong" no less. OYE is much more the proverbial black sheep in the YES family of albums.

[rabinmovies]

One of my union favourite songs is Silent talking. It so has much of the classic yes sound towards the end. Also love Shock to the system, lift me up and saving my heart and take the water to the mountain. However, i myself find the album goes on a bit. If only the weaker songs such as holding on, angkor wat and give and take were scapped the album would have been a classic.

[rabinmovies]

Forgot to mention how much a love Bruford's crispy clear snare sound on the album.

[Scaramouche]

I loved, Shock to the System, Lift me Up, Saving my Heart, Miracle of Life and Give and Take.

All the rest I thought were just so-so, but those five songs really worked.

Love and Light

Scaramouche xx

[buckleyfancy]

"The More We Live" - a great song, poetic lyrics with a message.

I think its a very uplifting song with great advice for living.

[Gabriel]

Still loving The More We Live and Lift Me Up the most out of this album; the latter really cheers me up if i'm in a despressing mood.

[rickweber]

Cinderella: What's wrong with I'm Running? You don't like that one? Shame on you!! Listen again, maybe it'll grow on you. It's a very complex song for Rabin. I love it.

[SonicDeath10]

Oh, well, I have to disagree with that one Jack.

I think The Ladder was the best Yes of the 90's - I'll get flamed, I know, but I LOVE the album - listening to it right now, as a matter of fact.
i agree with you actually, though Talk is second best. teh rest i'm not sure about.

[crotale2112]

Ankor wat is fantastic.:worm:.

I will take any union song over walls and dont go.I cant listen to them any more.

[Dantalion Rides Again]

I say it somewhere on Yesfans every few months it seems, but "Holding On" is the most underrated song on the album. My favorite track on there.

[allgoodyes]

"Holding On" is an excellent song. I agree with Dantalion Rides Again (Kevin) that this song is underrated.

[cinderella]

I'm one of the few who doesn't like Miracle Of Life.

Trevor sounds like he's straining his voice.
It hurts to listen to it.

[Internaut]

Cindy, I thought Trevor's voice was that way to show the emotion of the story being told, so I accepted the otherwise "shaky" vocals...

Musically, the song ROCKS!

[marklovesyes]

The highlight of Union is "Miracle of Life".

One thing I don't understand is why so many like "The More We Live - Let Go". I just don't find much to like in that song.

I also like "I Would Have Waited Forever", "Shock To The System", and "Masquerade". Apparently I am one of the few who like "Evensong" - it's just perhaps a little short!

[marklovesyes]

I WOULD HAVE WAITED FOREVER made me a Yesfan.

Isn't that interesting! You are one of the few, to be sure. But, it is a great song. The best part of "I WOULD HAVE WAITED FOREVER" is actually Chris Squire's background vocals, in my opinion. So subtle, but they really make the song. There are some great, overlooked Yesisms in this piece.
-mly

[FieldsOfGreen]

I say it somewhere on Yesfans every few months it seems, but "Holding On" is the most underrated song on the album. My favorite track on there.

Totally agree here! "Holding On" is one of my alltime favorite songs, beautiful... Also, "Angkor Wat", "Give & Take", "Take the water...", "The More we Live".

Oddly enough, though I'm a huge Yes West and Trevor Rabin fan, I like the ABWH songs better on Union...
(The very interesting Jimmy Haun's interview might bring some explanation for that!)

[SonicDeath10]

I'm one of the few who doesn't like Miracle Of Life.

Trevor sounds like he's straining his voice.
It hurts to listen to it.
:rcking: i'd agree. :rcking: the only good part :rcking: of the song :rcking: is :rcking: the organ :rcking: ri :rcking: ff.

[Joe]

That album kinda sounds two sided to me. Like........before Travor and after Trevor. WWWHHHAAATTT!!! You know.........

[YESYOUANDI]

Now let me think on this one!!

[Skyward]

I'm not really big on Mr. Bruford, but I really have developed quite a liking for "Evensong".

[YESYOUANDI]

Damn.

I missed "Cheers fans" off my last post.

Cheers fans.

Cheers fans.

[marklovesyes]

Damn.

I missed "Cheers fans" off my last post.

Cheers fans.

Cheers fans.
You can always hit the "Edit" button...

[Rabin105]

Miracle of life it sounds so cool they never playedf itlive nor will the ever though :(

[earthskyduality]

Call me crazy but I like all of Union. I listen to the album in its entirety all the time. I find it uplifting. This was the first yes CD I had bought in years and I loved it. Union single CD-ly turned me into a retro yes fan. I had no idea the CD's history or controversies I just thought it had some powerful affirming tunes...

[smatt]

I like a couple of the songs on Union. Although I do consider it an abomination of an album as nobody but Jonothan Elias really knows who p[layed what where when how why or whoever.......


MoL is a very cool song though........

[DW Duke]

Battle Hym of the Republic

or

http://www.laborheritage.org/Parodies.html

[Steve St Thomas]

I was a fan of the YesWest tracks right from the beginning, and I think I actually sighed relief when finding out it wasn't necessarily a Union as advertised.

Shock to the System sounded too much like City of Love for me to try and guess what Steve Howe's problem with Trevor Rabin was! I mean, he doesn't want to play Rabin era Yes music, but doesn't mind re-doing City of Love for an ABWH album? Go figure.

I voted for Miracle of Life, because I just think that song is amazing, though I've never quite gotten the Pacifica, Atlantica thingy, which the idea seemed to get repeated in The Calling (I blame Anderson :( ;))

I also remember thinking who the @%$% is Billy Sherwood. The whole UNION thing confused the hell out of me, and I do remember being pleased that Lift Me Up was written by Squire and Rabin, but confused by The More We LIve - Let Go and this Sherwood character. Then finding him on the Yesyears collection, and Keys of Ascension added further confusion, especially after TALK. I just remember thinking The More...... I liked alot when i first heard it, but nowadays I don't think much of the song. I just look at UNION pretty sourly these days, because it seemed to end Squire & Rabin's writing partnership, but I believe as soon as CINEMA got called YES, it was doomed anyway.

[DW Duke]

My first YES shock came with DRAMA. On the Union album I have to go with MoL.

[BrianD]

I prefer the ABWH tracks - not all of them mind you - but Shock to the System, Silent Talking, Angkor Wat, Take the water to the mountain are my favourites. My preference was before I worked out who did what - not that that is too clear anyway. I have grown to like Lift me up.

[Gabriel]

Take The Water To the Mountain and The More We Live have grown on me alot over the past few months; the former is short but sweet although it would have been nice to see what was originally planned before it was cut.

[Rabin105]

I was a fan of the YesWest tracks right from the beginning, and I think I actually sighed relief when finding out it wasn't necessarily a Union as advertised.

Shock to the System sounded too much like City of Love for me to try and guess what Steve Howe's problem with Trevor Rabin was! I mean, he doesn't want to play Rabin era Yes music, but doesn't mind re-doing City of Love for an ABWH album? Go figure.

I voted for Miracle of Life, because I just think that song is amazing, though I've never quite gotten the Pacifica, Atlantica thingy, which the idea seemed to get repeated in The Calling (I blame Anderson :( ;))

I also remember thinking who the @%$% is Billy Sherwood. The whole UNION thing confused the hell out of me, and I do remember being pleased that Lift Me Up was written by Squire and Rabin, but confused by The More We LIve - Let Go and this Sherwood character. Then finding him on the Yesyears collection, and Keys of Ascension added further confusion, especially after TALK. I just remember thinking The More...... I liked alot when i first heard it, but nowadays I don't think much of the song. I just look at UNION pretty sourly these days, because it seemed to end Squire & Rabin's writing partnership, but I believe as soon as CINEMA got called YES, it was doomed anyway.

if only steve wouldn't mind actually doing city of love live then it woyuld be good

[MrPhil]

Actually most of the songs are great songs.
It's just a pity that squabbling, ego, and record company interference screwed it up quite a bit.

[luckeydoug1]

Miracle of Life is the primary reason I bought Union. Definitely one of my top 5 Yes songs ever, and today it is #2. I just can't get this song out of my head.

[Mostly Harmless]

This thread title belongs in the oxymoron thread.

[cvp18]

i tend to agree with dyingpoet and neverthirst. although i dont have "all" the albums, there is great music from a great band regardless of the line up. i'd much rather listen to some "mediocre" (as some would say, although i dont feel that way) Yes music than most of what is out there now. and i started listening to the band when "Fragile" came out......

carol

[Rabin105]

Ocrean maid i disagree i feel Miracle of life is as classic a yes tune as anythiung off of fragile or the yesalbum

and yet the current crew won't do that track sigh

and while shock to the system is mediocre in the studio the live version is AMAZING same goes for Saving my Heart on both track you have all 8 of them doing what they do best and shock suprise having a genually good time. i wish they would tour with the 8 man lineup once more

[Mostly Harmless]

Ocrean maid i disagree i feel Miracle of life is as classic a yes tune as anythiung off of fragile or the yesalbum

and yet the current crew won't do that track sigh

and while shock to the system is mediocre in the studio the live version is AMAZING same goes for Saving my Heart on both track you have all 8 of them doing what they do best and shock suprise having a genually good time. i wish they would tour with the 8 man lineup once more

It's cool, we all have our own opinions. I don't like anything about this album, but it was my 2nd favorite tour....go figure.

[RickyG]

Good Union songs....?

Well, if I completely ignore the politics and I completely ignore Jonathan Elias and I try to ignore the stupid and unnecessary overdubs and cluttered production he put all over it... then I'd say:

**Masquerade** (Grammy nominated for Steve!!)
I Would Have Waited Forever
Shock To The System
Without Hope You Cannot Start The Day
Silent Talking
Angkor Wat
Holding On
Evensong (way too short!)
Take The Water To The Mountain
The More We Live-Let Go

Honorable mention:
Lift Me Up (Not bad for a Trevor song... :winknudge )
Miracle of Life (Not bad for a Trevor song... ;) )

[RickyG]

It's cool, we all have our own opinions. I don't like anything about this album, but it was my 2nd favorite tour....go figure.

Marge, are you saying that you don't even like "Masquerade"?

That is such a beautiful Steve 12-string solo piece...

[pianozach]

Only 5 votes for "Give and Take"? I think this means that too few people have heard this song. It's a pity, because it's a great ABWH song, one very much similar to "The Order of the Universe" and a superb finale to the album.

I'm a bit miffed that I have bought the CD, but in order to have the "bonus" track, I have to buy it again.

No, I haven't heard the track - where can I get it, aside from shelling out $15 to buy it with the 14 other tracks I already have?

Call me crazy but I like all of Union. I listen to the album in its entirety all the time. I find it uplifting. This was the first yes CD I had bought in years and I loved it. Union single CD-ly turned me into a retro yes fan. I had no idea the CD's history or controversies I just thought it had some powerful affirming tunes...

Well, if I completely ignore the politics and I completely ignore Jonathan Elias and I try to ignore the stupid and unnecessary overdubs . . . .

Yes! I simply ignore the controversies and politics and naively listen to it just as I did the first time I popped it in the CD player . . . . I envisioned a "union" of Yes, happily working together in peace and harmony, producing a work of artistic enjoyment that I treasure.

[B-TRUE]

~~ I Would Have Waited Forever ~~

[RickyG]

I'm a bit miffed that I have bought the CD, but in order to have the "bonus" track, I have to buy it again.

No, I haven't heard the track - where can I get it, aside from shelling out $15 to buy it with the 14 other tracks I already have?


Same here... I've never heard it but I'd like to, though I'm not going to buy the CD again just for one song.

Can anyone post an mp3 of it for sample listening?
It doesn't need to be downloadable... I'd just like to hear it once!!

[The Whale]

I vary much enjoy this album.

[webbcity]

"The More We Live- Let Go"...what a beautiful song. Too bad it got lost on this album. I really wish they would have played it live, it would have been incredible!

Tim

[Original_Shifty]

Marge, are you saying that you don't even like "Masquerade"?

That is such a beautiful Steve 12-string solo piece...

Indeed it is. And I was pleasently suprised when he played that song here in Ottawa a couple of months back. It's even more beautiful played live.

[Mostly Harmless]

Marge, are you saying that you don't even like "Masquerade"?

That is such a beautiful Steve 12-string solo piece...

To be honest, it's been so long since I listened to Union, (because I didn't like it after the first 3 tries), that I don't even remeber this song. To be fair, I'll dig it out this weekend and try to get through it.

[yes_angel]

The More We Live-Let Go,,,,,,,,,

[Terry Shea]

I love all the ABWH tracks except for Angkor Wat and the last 3, not counting Give and Take which I've never heard. I also think Lift Me Up is great track-probably the best of the Rabin era, but the rest of the Yeswest stuff is pretty lame.

[Witch Seasoner]

I don't know if they're good, but I like and voted for (in order of appearance on the album :D):

Masquerade
Without Hope You Cannot Start The Day
Silent Talking
The More We Live - Let Go
Angkor Wat
Holding On
Evensong
Take the Water to the Mountain

I don't think I've ever heard Give and Take, so I can't comment on that tune. I've certainly heard of it, though. And that counts for. . .well. . .nothing. :D

[Joe]

There's a lot of good songs on this CD.
How about these...............

-Without Hope You Cannot Start the Day
-Silent Talking
-The More We Live - Let Go
-Holding On

[yes_angel]

There's a lot of good songs on this CD.
How about these...............

-Without Hope You Cannot Start the Day
-Silent Talking
-The More We Live - Let Go
-Holding Onyou got it!! Union is special to me

[Squireaholic]

I know this sounds heretical to some of the purists, but I love Onion (uh, I mean Union!). As Shrek said, "onions have layers!", and I like the layers on Union, even if some of the music got overly 'greased' in the studio by Yes newbies. I particularly enjoy I Could Have Waited Forever, esp. in light of Master Howe's more original treatment of the theme on his solo release Turbulence.

[Jackaranda]

This thread title belongs in the oxymoron thread.

:lmao:

[yesyadda]

Welp, 348 people find at least one good song on the Union album. I picked five myself.

Masquerade
The More We Live
Angkor Wat
Evensong
Take the H2O

This is one of a very very few Yes albums wherein I loved a song on first listen, and I say that about these 5.
I remember thinking to myself "thank you!". They are still standouts in my book.

[luckeydoug1]

Now that I have lived with this album for a year the three best songs for me are:

Miracle of Life
Lift Me Up
The More We Live - Let Go

Not only are they my three favorite on this album, but they are also three of my all time favorite Yes songs

[Rippy]

When I put together a playlist of Masterworks by Yes, it always includes
"The More We Live, Let Go". I just think that it belongs within the body of work that stands above the rest. At least, for me.

[yesyadda]

Rippy, I cry every time I listen to that one. It's loooovely!

[luckeydoug1]

When I put together a playlist of Masterworks by Yes, it always includes
"The More We Live, Let Go". I just think that it belongs within the body of work that stands above the rest. At least, for me.
Rippy, I cry every time I listen to that one. It's loooovely!

I agree. But I prefer the Sherwood/Squire version from the Conspiracy album. I have just listened to both versions back to back to back and while it is very much the same song, I think that Billy's vocal performance is more powerful and more convincing than Jon's. Still it is a very awesome song that is somewhat lost in the Union album.

[Terry Shea]

Wow! I can't believe so many people like The More We Live-Let Go. While not the worst Yes track ever it definitely falls into the most boring top 5 for me anyway. Too slow, too simple and too Air Supplyish for my ears.



Let the flames begin!

[yes_angel]

Wow! I can't believe so many people like The More We Live-Let Go. While not the worst Yes track ever it definitely falls into the most boring top 5 for me anyway. Too slow, too simple and too Air Supplyish for my ears.



Let the flames begin!well then put on Talk and let Real Love rock your boat,,,,I do lol

[Purple Wolfhound]

Shock To The System
Masquerade
Miracle Of Life
The More We Live - Let Go

[Terry Shea]

well then put on Talk and let Real Love rock your boat,,,,I do lolHmmm. That whole album bores me to death with the exception of The Calling.

[yes_angel]

Hmmm. That whole album bores me to death with the exception of The Calling.is there no pleaseing you?lol the put on Black Sabbath and call it a day lmao

[Terry Shea]

is there no pleaseing you?lol the put on Black Sabbath and call it a day lmaoBlack Sabbath? No thank you!

[yes_angel]

Black Sabbath? No thank you!your a touch cookie aint you!!!! lmao

[JaneEyre]

I'm listening to a live version of "Saving My Heart" right now and it's awesome!

[yes_angel]

I'm listening to a live version of "Saving My Heart" right now and it's awesome!Excellent!!!!

[JaneEyre]

Excellent!!!!

... But the "Amazine Grace" rendition I could do without.

[ToBeOver]

is there no pleaseing you?lol the put on Black Sabbath and call it a day lmao

Frankly, I would rather listen to Black Sabbath than Union... it's my least favorite Yes album.


:keyboard:

[yes_angel]

Frankly, I would rather listen to Black Sabbath than Union... it's my least favorite Yes album.


:keyboard:who asked you!? lmao

[plodder]

I haven't heard anything off it.

[yes_angel]

I haven't heard anything off it.well then,,get with the programne plodder lol

[plodder]

well then,,get with the programne plodder lol

From what I can gather here it'll be a waste of money. I'll wait for my son to buy it. He's on a big YES phase at the moment. :)

[yes_angel]

From what I can gather here it'll be a waste of money. I'll wait for my son to buy it. He's on a big YES phase at the moment. :)ok your excused,,,,,now go get that tea you promesd to make me LOL

[plodder]

http://russelldavies.typepad.com/ateaandathink/friendly_cup_big-thumb.jpg

:)

[yes_angel]

http://russelldavies.typepad.com/ateaandathink/friendly_cup_big-thumb.jpg

:)Thankyou,,,its about time!! I been freezing my arse off over here! lmao,,,,,"Miracle Of Life"

[sirlespaul]

ummmm. NONE.

[yes_angel]

ummmm. NONE.say it isnt so!! another one????? lol

[allpurechance]

The More We Live/Let Go

Silent Talking

Miracle Of Life

Union is too swiftly reviled, too easily dismissed.The band were not happy with it, and perhaps justifiably so, but this album still listens much better than about 93.125% of what's out there now, and 95.731% of what's been released since.

Lift Me Up

I Would Have Waited Forever

...

[yes_angel]

The More We Live/Let Go

Silent Talking

Miracle Of Life

Union is too swiftly reviled, too easily dismissed.The band were not happy with it, and perhaps justifiably so, but this album still listens much better than about 93.125% of what's out there now, and 95.731% of what's been released since.

Lift Me Up

I Would Have Waited Forever

...Love it! : )

[Rabin105]

Miracle of life is awesome. How did eddie offord produce the track?

[BlueEagle]

ANGKOR WAT- is awesome. It's too bad it's not on a REAL YES album! :lmao:

[YesHut]

Union, songs I am willing to listen too and enjoy, are
I Would Have Waited Forever
Masquerade
Miracle Of Life
Angkor Wat
Evensong
Take The Water To The Mountain

[yes_angel]

ANGKOR WAT- is awesome. It's too bad it's not on a REAL YES album! :lmao:oh YES it is ; )

[Rabin105]

Union, songs I am willing to listen too and enjoy, are
I Would Have Waited Forever
Masquerade
Miracle Of Life
Angkor Wat
Evensong
Take The Water To The Mountain

Miracle of life is awesome


wouldn';t it be cool if they played it live

[yes_angel]

Miracle of life is awesome


wouldn';t it be cool if they played it liveIt sure would be Rabin105 without hope you cannot start the day

[milestownyes]

Interesting to respond to a thread that started years before I joined. I know many don't like Onion including Yes members. I know the producers butchered the final product. HOWEVER, if one listens to the core of the ideas involved and the things that are buried under all the production about half the album, in my opinion is great at it's core.

[Rabin105]

It sure would be Rabin105 without hope you cannot start the day

wouldn't mind that song live too.

I think the classic yes lineup (i might be wrong) is trying harder and harder to play songs we wouldn't expect from them We may get Miracle of life for the 40tyh annversery and hopefully Without hope you cannot start the day

[yes_angel]

wouldn't mind that song live too.

I think the classic yes lineup (i might be wrong) is trying harder and harder to play songs we wouldn't expect from them We may get Miracle of life for the 40tyh annversery and hopefully Without hope you cannot start the dayVery cool! That keeps me happy! I would Have Waited Forever and ever and ever,,,,,,

[Rabin105]

Very cool! That keeps me happy! I would Have Waited Forever and ever and ever,,,,,,

so if they played a few union tracks would it be a shock to the system?

[yes_angel]

so if they played a few union tracks would it be a shock to the system?OMG I was just thinking that! I really Love that tune!

[Rabin105]

OMG I was just thinking that! I really Love that tune!

lol it's even better live with the 8 man lineup


love that song with the 8 man lineup.


but The More we live -Let go

[KPatrick]

I didn't vote in the poll, as it's not really aimed at my team -- I don't need to be persuaded that there are good songs on UNION. I don't know that it can be called true Yes music when, to borrow Rick's joke, half of California are on the ABWH tracks, and the YesWest stuff is essentially demos. But taken in a vacuum, I think the music is very good -- and it's easier for me to take it in a vacuum, because it's the first Yes album I bought, ever, back when it was new and back in the days before the internets and any knowledge I had of Yes history. I submit that much of our appreciation of this album -- every album since TORMATO, arguably -- is determined by what "Yes baggage" each of us brings to it...

[YESYOUANDI]

Is this a trick question?

Cheers fans.

[heishere]

just listened to ctte all the way through, drivin through the countryside under a million stars on a warm march night. whew, even now it still just blows me away. but i still like union. every bit of it. it's too hard to choose one. maybe angkor wat: only from yes might you expect a poem (in cambodian?), not a word of which is intelligible, to move you down to the depths of your being... but the other songs too, listen alone again sometime, and let em bring out the lover inya

[new_sum_do_solve_ay]

I think a lot of the panning is coming from people OVERANALYZING and critique-ing obscure stuff few people are aware of. Union was good. I like Union, I've always liked Union. ABWH so totally blew me away and left me breathless that there has never been an album I more eagerly awaited than Union. The sheer edge-of-my-seat excitement contributes to this a lot I think. But LOTS of songs are good: West and East. Incidentally 'The More You Live' is just about my least favorite and it's leading... LOL. Silent Talking is awesome and features Bill at his earth-spinning best.

[Dragonfly]

Incidentally 'The More You Live' is just about my least favorite and it's leading... LOL. Silent Talking is awesome and features Bill at his earth-spinning best.Me too. "The More You Live" as favorite!? It's almost upsetting that people love the song I like least. (I don't actually "hate" it, but still...) You never can tell!

Fave from "the East": Silent Talking
Fave from "the West": Miracle of Life

Dragonfly :fly:

[Dragonfly]

Incidentally 'The More You Live' is just about my least favorite and it's leading... LOL. Silent Talking is awesome and features Bill at his earth-spinning best.Me too. "The More You Live" as favorite!? It's almost upsetting that people love the song I like least. (I don't actually "hate" it, but still...) You never can tell!

Fave from "the East": Silent Talking
Fave from "the West": Miracle of Life

Dragonfly :fly:

[Dragonfly]

Incidentally 'The More You Live' is just about my least favorite and it's leading... LOL. Silent Talking is awesome and features Bill at his earth-spinning best.Me too. "The More You Live" as favorite!? It's almost upsetting that people love the song I like least. (I don't actually "hate" it, but still...) You never can tell!

Fave from "the East": Silent Talking
Fave from "the West": Miracle of Life

Dragonfly :fly:

[Rabin105]

Me too. "The More You Live" as favorite!? It's almost upsetting that people love the song I like least. (I don't actually "hate" it, but still...) You never can tell!

Fave from "the East": Silent Talking
Fave from "the West": Miracle of Life

Dragonfly :fly:

i love miracle of life would be interesting to hear that one live

[Joe]

Yup.......The More We Live - Let Go

[yes_angel]

I Love All the songs from Union,,I listen to that cd all the time

[BlueEagle]

SHOCK TO THE SYSTEM is great- it almost sounds like a leftover from THE YES ALBUM days.
The best from the "YESWEST" camp is MIRACLE OF LIFE- IMO

[yesyadda]

SHOCK TO THE SYSTEM is great- it almost sounds like a leftover from THE YES ALBUM days.
The best from the "YESWEST" camp is MIRACLE OF LIFE- IMO

TURN IT DOWN! ;)

[BlueEagle]

TURN IT DOWN! ;)
WHAT??? Turn it UP?? OK;):dog:
Actually the neighbors love it

[yes_angel]

WHAT??? Turn it UP?? OK;):dog:
Actually the neighbors love itAnother few notches please,,,,LOUDER! Hahahaha

[Rabin105]

haha TURN IT ON AGAIN


LMAO

[yes_angel]

haha TURN IT ON AGAIN


LMAOyou better believe it :lmao:

[tommyhawk]

Silent Talking is one of my all-time favorite songs.

[Rabin105]

you better believe it :lmao:

rock on :guitar:

[relayeire]

thought I'm a "Trooper," I think MoL may be the best song on there...

[yes_angel]

thought I'm a "Trooper," I think MoL may be the best song on there...YES you are a Trooper so join in and turn it up LOUD!! :lmao:

[Faceintheplace]

Another vote for The More We Live Let Go here.

Without Hope... is also good, but for me only the versions on The Perfect Union boot do it for me, as they include a middle section stupidly excised from the Union version that makes the song much more cohesive.

Holding On I like too, I used to have a hard time getting past the intro but it is a decent track.

[yes_angel]

Another vote for The More We Live Let Go here.

Without Hope... is also good, but for me only the versions on The Perfect Union boot do it for me, as they include a middle section stupidly excised from the Union version that makes the song much more cohesive.WooHoo Good Choice!

[Rabin105]

Another vote for The More We Live Let Go here.

Without Hope... is also good, but for me only the versions on The Perfect Union boot do it for me, as they include a middle section stupidly excised from the Union version that makes the song much more cohesive.

i honeslty never heard the perfect union boot.

always wanted too though.

[YESYOUANDI]

Come on...........this just has to be a trick question?

Maybe some good moments....but that's all though.

Cheers fans.

[pianozach]

thought I'm a "Trooper," I think MoL may be the best song on there...

I'm evidently a Panthtrooperator!

AND I enjoy listening to Union.

[cinderella]

The More We Live Let Go

This thread is 13 pages long and I think I already said it. (Too lazy to go back and look.)
Oh well it's worth repeating.

Did I say how much I absolutely HATE Shock To The System?

Oh well that's worth repeating too.

(They sound like a bunch of cats howling on a fence at night.)

[SonicDeath10]

Did I say how much I absolutely HATE Shock To The System?

If Steve Howe played guitar on that song, let alone wrote that riff, I'll eat Chris Squire.

[Rabin105]

well sonic u'll be eating CS Steve wrote the riffHaun says it himself in an Interview not sure where. but he says how "shock to steve's system besides the intro riff and the little thing at the chorsu all me"

[yesyadda]

Dang, Cindy - Shlock Ala System is a dandy song in my book. Cats on a fence LOL. Hey they're cool cats. Ya think they're beggin for tuna?

[yes_angel]

The More We Live Let Go

This thread is 13 pages long and I think I already said it. (Too lazy to go back and look.)
Oh well it's worth repeating.

Did I say how much I absolutely HATE Shock To The System?

Oh well that's worth repeating too.

(They sound like a bunch of cats howling on a fence at night.)Hahahah dont repeat it it,,I Love that song :lmao: