BBC4 programme 19th Jan

[Friend3]

I notice that in the TV listings here (UK) that on Monday 19th jan (10 pm)there is a 'time shift' programme called Prog Rock. ( these time shift programmes are ones resurrected from years ago)
Quote
'the history of prog rock, with Yes drummer Bill Bruford and broadcaster John Peel discussing whether the music is still going strong.'

Not sure when it was first broadcast..could have been many many years ago.
It is followed by Rock Family Trees.

It seems to be repeated again on Wednesday 21st Jan at 11.00pm and the description for the following rock Family Trees mentions the rise and fall of progressive rock.

This info is all useless if you are one of many who don't get BBC4 but hopefully some will catch the programme.

Friend3

[PO]

Interesting. It could have been from the Union era, too. I'm sure I can't see it here, so tell us what it is if you see it.

[upbgirl]

Welcome to Yesfans!
oh yeah-this sounds VERY interesting to me, and i wont see it either..
[but it helps to know we, over here, will be seeing the yesspeak/live acoustic gig a week from monday..]
i have heard that peel guys name before-and for some reason it doesnt leave a 'good taste' for HIM to be talking about Yes..not sure what he'll say about prog in general, but that 'rise and FALL' phrase gives me a clue.. :slap:
and if it was recorded long ago.. hhmm.
i dont think prog has fallen.. WE are here, after all..:D
still, tho, friend.. DO tell us what they say-we'd like to know the year it was..
just to see howe much has [or hasnt] changed..
thanx for posting this so everyone who might want to CAN see it.


and i kind of LIKE that title..
*time shift* indeed!:D

[Friend3]

I've just checked the bbc4 website and it seems that this programme is not an old one but is a recent recording which looks back. The Family Trees programme that follows is resurrected from the archives as I remember the series first being shown.
Fortunately I can get BB4 so will look in.

www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour and then select THIS WEEKS PRINTABLE LISTINGS and choose Monday and click on the progamme to lead to a fuller description.



Being a Gentle Giant fan I hope they will get a mention but doubt it.

Friend3

[InverYes]

Thanks for the tip-off Friend3. I'll watch it.

[upbgirl]

what it's all about! we cant wait either!!
keep in touch, guys..
hopefully, we will hear about it tomorrow [over here]
fingers crossed they'll mention gentle giant, too!!;)

[Friend3]

What a programme!!! Made in 2004 (checked the date at the end in the usual BBC fashion.. MMIV)
Now, who did they show????
Beatles (Sgt Pepper) leading to the likes of Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Genesis (with Peter Gabriel), The Nice, ELP, Yes, Focus.
Archived interviews with Roger Waters, Ringo Starr, Bill Bruford, Roger Dean, Jon Anderson, Keith Emerson.
Recent interviews with... Roger Waters, Roger Dean, Steve Hackett and Bill Bruford.

Bill Bruford in particular was featured together with John Peel who extolled the virtues of early prog rock to be then persuaded into the punk rock era.
Various music journalists were featured, including Paul Stump who is the author of the Gentle Giant book which I have had on order for many a month (year?) now. Amazon inform me that it is to be published next month. I won't hold my breath.

A lot of concert footage featuring the above bands with Yes being more prominent than others.


It was stated that prog rock had become a little silly towards the mid 70's ( showed a clip from King Arthur on ice/Rick Wakeman) but then conceded that since punk has receded then prog rock has found it's place again in mainstream music with Yes, ELP (90's), Genesis continuing to provide. Other newer bands are learning to experiment with their compositions and thus following the ideals of progressive rock.

The concert clips were particularly enthralling and bought back happy memories.

Being a Gentle Giant devotee I cannot add more detail on the Yes extracts. InverYes may be able to help there.
I do remember someone saying that 'Yours is no disgrace' having a musical link to the Bonanza theme!!!

And just at the end the narrator said that new bands were confessing to listening to bands like Gentle Giant and ELP...... obviously looking for inspiration. Fancy Gentle Giant getting a mention!!!!..made my evening.

The following programme was Rock Family Trees but I will view that recording for when I have more time..

Hope this gives an idea of what it was all about. Seeing Peter Gabriel in his petals was interesting. The singer from Focus on the Old Grey Whistle Test ( a bbc music programme form the 70's) scaling the octaves was also a treat.

I'm sure I've missed things out. Another viewing will be in order.

All good things
Friend3

[PO]

Very cool. I'll have to see if any US distributor may carry it. Great info. Thanks!

[Awakened]

Couldn't watch these programmes the other night but believe that they are both repeated this evening on the same channel but 1 hour later.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/whatson/prog_parse.cgi?FILENAME=20040121/20040121_2300_4544_60153_40

[InverYes]

Friend3 tahnks for the tip-off on this one. Two brilliant programmes.

I know it's a bit sad, but I did take notes for the benefit of you guys who couldn't get to see it. It painted Yes in a good light I thought.

Anyway...here goes....

Time Shift started off with the view of Charles Shaar Murray ( I remember him as a writer with the NME in the 70's) that Prog rock was " pompous, bourgeois and bloated".

The first prog rock album was apparently Sgt. Peppers, credited with being the first ever concept album.

John peel, that great fan of Yes ( remember his comments about Glastonbury - he was glad Yes were on the bill because it reminded him why he hated them so much in the first place) said he was "overcome and in tears" when he first heard Sgt. Peppers.

Other bands then followed the Beatles' lead.

Pink Floyd were mentioned, as well as The Nice, credited with introducing classical music into rock. Mention was made of their appearance at the Albert Hall when, as part of an anti-Vietnam protest, they burned an impression of the American flag. didn't go down too well apparently.

Then an extract of 21st Century Schizoid Man was played and Paul Stump regarded In the Court of the Crimson King as the first prog rock album, appealing to "an older, more knowing audience."

Roger waters spoke briefly about A Saucerful of Secrets.

ELP were described as either "good" or "abominable" depending on which side you were on.

Peel then again referred to himself being reduced to tears on hearing an album, but this time because it was "such bollocks". He regarded ELP as "middle class twerps with clever friends….absolute piffle".

Yes then got a mention as having classical aspirations. Charles Shaar Murray described them as being " the 1st post modern band ", whatever that means.

Extract of Perpetual Change played.

Bill Bruford then spoke ( in 1972) saying how they " raped, pillaged and stole from Motown, be-bop and Sibelius. He also said there was a striking similarity between Yours is No Disgrace and the theme from Bonanza!!! He described Yes as if they were all writing a novel together. Chaos.

Paul Stump regarded Yes as " a studio band".

I missed who, but someone then described Yes as " a bit stupid. All Watney's red barrel and a little man from Accrington singing about whispers of clay - faintly ridiculous".

Jon ( in 1972) then spoke of how he chooses the lyrics for their sound quality rather than their meaning.

Extract of And You and I played.

Various shots of Yes album sleeves shown to Roundabout.

Bill described Yes as the type of band you first discover on vinyl as opposed to hearing on the radio or whatever.

Roger Dean then described himself as a landscape painter who achieved his style by exaggerating bits.

The Yes fan was then described as being aged 16 - 20, young, white and affluent, long-haired and tattier than they needed to be.

Peel appeared again to describe prog rock as " a middle class thing."

Cut then to The Old Grey Whistle Test and Whispering Bob Harris.

Tangerine Dream and "Can" (?) shown followed by Focus playing Hocus Pocus on the show. After Hocus Pocus was played apparently the factory spent the next ten days producing nothing but this record.

Jethro Tull in a WW11 flying outfit was shown talking to Bob Harris and then Floyd again, playing Money. Chris Thomas described Dark Side of the Moon as being the first album to use the studio as another instrument. Extract from Breathe.

Enter Genesis - Foxtrot described as incorporating English pastoral music in their work. Steve Hackett described it as a mixture of church and panto. Stage shot of I Know what I Like.

Bill Bruford commented on how audiences would even applaud the lighting changes on a Genesis set.

Enter Peel again - he found listening to prog rock like an O level kid being taught an A level subject - it was bollocks but you had to say you liked it or people just said you didn't understand it.

Bob harris then commented that King Arthur on Ice showed just how stupid things got.

Then it was ELP's 1977 tour, introducing a 100 piece orchestra on a US tour, and they were laughed at.

Prog rockers were by now regarded like royalty.

Britain then looked to the US for an alternative and punk arrived. The Ramones were shown playing on " a stage that was smaller than Greg Lake's Persian carpet".

Played Pretty Vacant and Sham 69.

Peel then "changed horses in midstream because ( you've guessed it) " prog rock was bollocks"

"Prog rockers became dinosaurs overnight"

But Steve Hackett then said let's see the punks still playing on stage in twenty years time. ( and how right he was!)

The narration then said that most prog bands did their best stuff after punk.

Gabriel produced his pop videos.
Genesis turned in a healthy profit.
Floyd had Brick in the Wall which was 1979's best selling single.
ELP broke up but then re-united.
Yes adopted an American AOR radio friendly sound.

Newer prog bands were then mentioned - French something and Musical Box shown performing Suppers Ready. Serge Morrisette said they recreate the music, they don't judge it and don't change anything.

The narrative then said that things would never again go back to 22 minute long songs about goblin kings BUT progressive overtones were coming back amongst the better bands around today.

************************************************** ******************

The second programme was Rock Family Trees narrated by ( guess who? ) John bloody Peel!!! What a cheek! If you read his comments above, he's the guy with more bollocks than a herd of Aberdeen Angus!!!

This was a brilliant programme which was really mainly about Yes.

Opens with Roundabout and NONNER followed by OOALH.

Then Karn Evil9

PP Arnold spoke of how she needed a band and she named them "The Nice".
Keith Emerson told how he was frustrated stuck behind a piece of furniture so took up knife throwing.

Arthur Brown described trying to make a head dress of a colander and candles but it kept burning his head!

Rick described playing once with the Strawbs. Arthur Brown came on first with his hat on fire, split his trousers and got arrested. Rick did one little solo, got a cheer and then this little old guy with a funny moustache came on stage. Rick thought he was up to something so he pushed him off the stage and got arrested. " How was I to know he was Salvador Dali".

Then Jon was in the warriors in a bar and met Chris. One ( I can't remember which) described the other as a " psychedelic west coast wannabe". Jon didn't want to make pop music as he felt he was too old at 27!

The band were driven by Jon's ambition and he was described as a napoleonic figure in the band. He put this down to having no instrument to play so had to make his mark in other ways.

Extract of ISAGP

Bill Bruford descibed the band as fiercely competitive and having a revolving door system. If someone better came along they were in and you were out.

Extract of YIND

Chris described how they decided to nick Rick.

Rick described how he had just joined the band when Bill and Chris had a fight. He thought " great! The drummer has just hit the bass player. But that was normal.

Bill said they used to get hate mail over the lyrics because no-one understood them. Jon described them as wild. Chris couldn't understand them but " they sounded good".

Fragile and then CTTE meant that Bill was"bored to death by all the engineering involved".

Rick then told how A & M heard Catherine Howard and told him he was off his head. It got bad reviews and sold 11 million copies.

Reference then to Tales being based on a Hindu text. Jon wanted to record it outdoors in the woods at midnight. instead they brought bales of hay into the studio plus insects and a cow with an electric motor. Rick did the tour which he enjoyed as much as " a wooden chair tester with piles". Jon said Rick couldn't play as well on tour as in the studio and that he pushed Rick over the edge.

Rick told how he was under a lot of pressure and was a party animal. He had a heart attack at 25. He wrote King Arthur, which he described as autobiographical, in hospital. he would love to do it on ice again!

Yes wer described as " a peoples band " which a year later were dinosaurs. A newspaper headline said " Yes - it's corpse rock"

It then described other band members animosity that Jon and Rick had written a lot of stuff together. Both then left.

Trevor Horn was then shown describing how he had signed to Brian Lane who also managed Yes. Trevor offered a song to Chris and Chris asked him to come along and record. Trevor felt uncomfortable touring - " they made me sing high".

Extract of Tempus Fugit.

Alan, Steve and Chris thought things were going OK until the tour went to England where they got shouts of "F… off" from the crowd.

Bill then described ABWH playing. When they played AYAI he was deafened by the noise of the reaction.

UNION . Bill said it was "ludicrous", thought it was a dishonest title. Rick didn't recognise his bits. he called it Onion because it made him cry, but he said it was the best Yes tour he had ever done.

Extract from Awaken and ISAGP.

Quote from Rick " pompous? yeah, good innit? "

[Flo]

Thanks Inveryes ! That's a fairly good overview of the programme.
Despite some of the negative aspects you mentioned, I wish we had that sort of programme in France. I just can't imagine something about prog rock here. Nobody seems to care.

[InverYes]

Hey Flo, if you use the same video format in France as we do, maybe Friend3 could do you a copy ( I think he recorded it). It's really worth seeing.

And for anybody who can get BBC4 but missed it, the first programme is being repeated again next Monday....at 1.00AM !

[Flo]

Actually I don't know if the format is the same in France. I have sent video to friends in Italy or Greece and they only saw it in black and white.
I should enquire about it.

[Friend3]

I do have a video recording of it (VHS) and can obviously watch the programme again as it seems to be repeated a number of times (This is what BBC 4 does!)
So my original recording is available. I don't have the facility to make copies. Gentle Giant were not shown so I won't need to store it with my GG collection.
Friend3